Podcrushed - [Rerun] Maya Hawke

Episode Date: September 16, 2026

[Original air date: June 24, 2024] Maya Hawke (Stranger Things, Inside Out 2) drops by the pod and shares why conventional schooling wasn’t for her, and how growing up immersed in art shaped her. She reflects on how it felt to be the new kid on Stranger Things, and talks about the inspiration behind her new album "Chaos Angel." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lemonada. And I thought I'd ship myself. And then I had to go talk to the Hollister model. And I had to explain to him that I, we needed to hike six miles off the trail. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie.

And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Losing touch in high school and never reconnecting as adults. Hello. Krasherunsky, you know, I'm trying to combine them. It was bad. It was just really... All bad, none usable. And in between a scene where I had to

have a grizzly, I'm dealing with death. And so, you know, so for lunch, we had this freelance photographer. Shout out to Rick. He came and he set up all these partitions with just enough of an opening so that everything could be seen by anybody who was entering the lunch room but not eating lunch. And he did his best because that's all that was provided him, you know? So I go in and he was just so, he was so thoughtful and kind, but I just have to say

he did not bring the spirit of my show you. He brought much more of the pod crush spirit. And there was something about those two spirits in that moment that they were really fighting each other. And, you know, I have this prop of a stapler thanks to Sophia Naba's genius, genius creative implementation of a stapler in L.A. They have to give Naba credit on that one. I mean, I brought the stapler,

but it was really Veronica, our photographer, who became enamored. No, became enamored with the use of the stapler in the shop. Our photographer? Robin. Robin. I keep telling her Veronica. Robin. They're both good names.

We won't edit that out. We're really indebted to carrot top. I iconic prop comic. I stapled my finger during the shoot. I mean, it was a bloodbath. And so it really brought them together. No, that's no. I did staple my finger.

But it was kind of just out of stress because I was trying to be, you know, sweet in some way. And Rick was being so encouraging, bless him, did not have any idea who I was. was or like, I don't think what my show was about at all. And, you know, he kept on trying to, like, encourage me to, you know, he saw like your guy's pictures, which you'd already shot and they're very, you know, you're doing a lot of, like, how do we describe it? Like, what are you doing? You're doing, like, a lot of poor, a lot of unusable. I was, I was talking to my mom and I was like,

there's not one normal picture in that bunch. Every picture I'm rolling my eyes or making a kissy face or using the tapework. It's one of the three. It was definitely a lot of like a lot of, what is that, justiculating. Childish, childish. No, you each had enough of like a normal shot, I think. But so that's what we had to go off of. And so Rick is, you know, we're kind of trying to encourage me to do those things. I don't think of myself like, I am not doing those times.

I'm not an answer. And so I actually have to, I start very, like, you know, thinking of you guys, thinking of him and just time. And I'm like, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to. I'm trying to explain to him like, so the whole... That's actually when he stapled his finger. He was like, I'm already in so much pain. I just need to distract myself. So I'm trying to explain to him graciously, you know, in some way that like, you know,

they really do their thing and like, I do my thing. And like... He's like, course? This is set this. So it was just, it was a good, it was a good time in the end. The moral of this story is that. that the decision to have Sophie and I go first and you base your takes off of us was bizarre.

There are harsher words than I can use, but I'm going to stick with the star. Clearly, you should have gone first and we should have followed your lead. I know. It hit me after we did the photo shoot that the purpose of this free brand was to age it up.

That's so true. Oh, my God. I know. I feel like I got home and I was like, shoot. I just totally did not think about this. Anyway, we'll see what we end up, but you'll know. You already know, listening.

Yeah. There's six-year-olds being like, you'll give us. I don't like to wait these guys talk. More Roblox, please. So, yeah, speaking of growing up, let's get into our guest. So yeah, we have Maya Hawke. She's an actor and a musician. You know her from films like Asteroid City, Maestro,

once upon a time in Hollywood. And then, of course, there is a series like Stranger Things, which you've probably heard of. scene. You might know her from that. Also, the BBC's Little Women. And she's got a growing catalog of records. Her new record, Chaos Angel, is what she was here to talk about, but we covered a lot of ground. You're really going to enjoy this one. Don't go anywhere. New from Nespresso. Blend wellness into your coffee routine with a coffee plus range infused with functional benefits. Choose the coffee you love with added B vitamins, like coffee plus B12 to help support immune

function and coffee plus B6 to keep your day moving or go with the flow and choose ginseng delight our new double espresso with ginseng extract whatever lies ahead don't change your morning let your morning change you discover coffee plus on espresso dot com hey guys we're lisbeth chambers and marissa hermer you may know us from television business and other things we're talking about the stuff that really matters every week we're celebrating women and getting real about divorce dating motherhood, sex, friendship, and everything in between. It's honest, hilarious, unfiltered, and proof that this chapter of life is the best one yet. So if you're ready to laugh, feel seen, and join the conversation, come hang out with us.

This is The Dash. Listen and subscribe to The Dash wherever you get your podcast. Hi, guys. Hi. Welcome. So Maya and I did, we did a, the most recent thing we did together was a reading with a bunch, kind of like an all-star cast. I'm not including myself for that, but this ridiculous

cast. Wow. That was back in, oh, 2017. It was a long time ago, 2016, 2017, maybe even 2015. I know that I was touring at the time and it was I just happened to be in Brooklyn for like two days and I

made it happen and we just like we stood this play up, read it you know, after everybody having only read through it like one day prior, I think. Yeah. And it was Chekhov's the cherry orchard, yeah. It was a modern adaptation setting Chekhov's the Cherry Orchard in the American South. That's right. And then before that, the first time we ever met was, it would have been...

A Mancoa Amorated short film. Yes. And he directed something that I'd worked in with your father. What's funny is that I have worked with Maya and both her mother and her father. Wow. That is amazing. It's a very strange, very small community. that we occupy space inside of.

You at 12, you know what we do here. Where were you at 12? How are you seeing the world? Where were you doing? To understand where I was at 12, you have to kind of go back where I was before, which is I started off at a really prim and proper school in New York City called Brearly, where you had to wear a uniform. It was only girls.

And I was able to disguise my dyslexia from them until around the third grade. And then the chapter book started getting harder and harder to memorize and I got, and I was exposed. And then pretty much asked to leave. And then I went to a school called Winward. I mean, I think that if whatever administrator heard that, they were like, we were going for a mutual decision thinking you'd be benefited by a different academic. But it was, you know, I was like bumped down from lower and lower reading level groups until there was the bottom. And then there was nowhere else to go. And fourth and fifth I did it Winward.

And then six, seventh, eighth, I did this place called Rudolph Steiner, which is a really like specific kind of style learning place. And so I had just around when I was 12, I'd just gotten out of an environment that was really focused on like kids' individual learning styles and kind of put back into a more normal schooling system, but that was still really specific. and I was intensely moralistic. I was really political. Mostly like environmental. I was an avid environmentalist. I really didn't think anyone should curse. I really thought that any day now

I was going to be able to talk to animals and have full conversation. That my powers, my powers were going to set in any moment now and they would explain my whole origin story. And I wore like nightgowns to school. I had not yet reached the point of like, I remember right at 12, my mom made me this amazing parrot Halloween costume

where we glued multicolored feathers under angel wings and I wore a rainbow dress. And I showed up and it was right when kids started cunning like nurses, you know, like or trying to look slutty. And I was crying in the closet because I was so ashamed to be ashamed of the costume. that my mom had made me, you know? Yeah, right, right, right.

And so I was right, that was kind of right around that time period. Maya, this is the most beautiful, like, evocative portrait I think we've ever had from a guest. I have so many questions. But I guess my first question is the no cussing thing. Did that come from your parents? Like, where did that sense of morality, propriety come from? I think my parents just didn't very much. And then I started interacting with some other.

adults in the world, like people, my parents were dating or, um, and they did a lot. And I was like, that is a, like, you are bad. Like, that's a bad. And that was a power that I had as a 12 year old to reprimand adults. And I think I had, I had a real, like, I want power complex. And that was, like, I, I have a lot of responsibility and no authority, you know, in my head. And I was like, I have an authority on this. Kids do it in TV shows all the time. Yeah. And I can tell you that you're bad because you said fuck.

And that makes you bad. And I can't talk about the other reasons I think you're bad. But I know that. I got you on that one. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Wow, that's so insightful. A little controlling.

Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say, like, that paints a little bit of a picture for me of you as like, maybe a little like bossy. I wonder if you were like that with. other kids. I was an oldest sibling. So I was definitely bossy with my brother and and and and with people three and a year three and a half years. Okay. Um, I was bossy with him and I was bossy with people who I saw as being, wow, I realize I'm just about to justify my bossiness. Yeah. I was like I wasn't bossy to the good children. Um, but I was um and I think in that, in

In that what I just said, I guess I was bossy. But I was also, it's a weird contrast because I was also shy. Like I was also the kind of kid who'd weighed at the top of the slide and let kids go down in front of me wanting to take my own time going down the slide. You know, like I. And so it was a weird contrast between being like, you shouldn't do that. Be nice to your mother. Like this, that was. And like, no, go ahead.

You know, like there was a strange, I think just adult complex. I just thought I was an adult. I started auditioning for the first time at 16, but I didn't get the part. But, and it was an exception where I hadn't been allowed to audition for anything. But then because it had happened organically through like a school acting teacher and a community reach out, I was allowed to audition to this one project. But that was the only work experience I'd had until I graduated high school at 17. Maya, we, you know, we did do a lot of prep.

We all are fans of yours. as we sort of follow your career. And in one of these things that we were reading, we heard that it wasn't uncommon for you and your dad to write poetry, paint, play guitar together well into the night. And I was curious, I had two sort of follow-ups to that. Do you remember what your early poems were about? And did you have kind of a similar relationship with your mom?

Or how did the arts kind of express themselves in your relationship with your mom? You know, my mom was much more interested in information. Like my big memory of like, I had a really hard time sleeping as a kid. So I think a lot of these things of like were tools with which to kill time before I would pass out, you know, and, um, and trying not to put on a bug's life for the 50,000th time, you know. Um, but my mom, what I remember her doing really was teaching me information. Like my, I like teaching me about how tectonic plates work and what the center, the core of the earth is and like the different layers and about pangaya and like tectonic shifts and. earthquakes and um like she is one of the smartest people I've ever met my whole life and is a really avid reader and it really prefers nonfiction um and is kind of consuming a ton of information and

she would teach me a lot about the world and history and uh and then and then we would watch movies together and stuff like that but then kind of the the and we would make like i said like She would make my Halloween costume together. Like there was tactile art making steps. And then with my dad, we would just write a lot of poetry and do a lot of watercolors. There's a story that you've told, which I think was at 12 years old, where you attended a dress rehearsal. My dad loves this story.

I went to the dress room. My dad was doing this thing called The Bridge Project, where he was doing the cherry orchard and a winner's tale in rep, which is extremely cool. A PSA, I would like to do one someday. And I came to, it was at a real, like, I was at Rudolph Steiner, so I probably was 12. And I went to the dress rehearsal and I sat and watched the whole thing. And it was pretty much pornographic to me as a kid.

Like, it was so exciting. the dance that people were, they did this amazing dance and Rebecca Hall was so beautiful. And I, like, and she stood still like a statue for, like,

what seemed to me like eight hours. And I didn't understand how she did it. And she moved again at the end. And I was like, oh, her magic powers have kicked in. And, and this whole show, it was musical and colorful and sensual.

And I felt like my, brain electrify. And my dad cites this moment and then I wanted to stay and watch it again. And my dad cites this moment as the time in which he knew that I was unavoidably sick and

would become an artist. Like that there was no way around the illness. And I do think that like it is, it was a moment for me, but it was a moment in the spectrum of many moments.

of falling in love with this work. And really that that whole, so then it's hard for you to differentiate between Coast of Utopia, the Bridge Project, and McBeth. Because two of them happened at Lincoln Center and they were all really important to me because I loved to be backstage.

And I loved to, like, go to the different departments and hang out with costume. And, like, it's just where I wanted to be and then I wanted to watch. And I remember it. coast of utopia. I got to go out on stage. I don't know if anyone saw that play in New York, but at the beginning of it, there's like a fake ocean where there's a big silk sheet that

was thrown over the stage. It's gorgeous stages and all the cast stood under it and like bumped it up, like creating waves. And I got to go under it and bump it up and then they pull the states, like the thing back and we all have to run and, you know, hide back again. And I still have the moon from that sky in my I used to have it in my bedroom all throughout my teen years and I think being backstage at these incredible theatrical performances and getting to watch them

is a huge part of the reason why I wanted to be an actor. That makes sense to me. Being on a set can be if you're sort of made for it. It's a very exciting place to be. I mean, there's almost nothing more exciting if it's what you, and it's to me, I feel like I learn a lot about people

sometimes based on whether or not they enjoy being on set when they're not working. I think that that's it. Not that it's not a positive or a negative, but I think it speaks, it says a lot. Because I've noticed some people you bring them to set and when they don't have a job,

whether or not they work in the arts. And they're like, they have fun, they watch a take. They go get a snack. They shake some hands and they're like, all right, that's it. And other people go and they're like, I'll hang out all day.

I like, I want to go check out all the departments and I wanted to sit and talk to people and it's and and and just watch take after take after take and that's what I was like as a kid and I I there's it's very rare that people don't find that boring and if they don't it says a lot I think my sister my half sister who I say half because she she's so much older than me 17 years and we really didn't grow up together we're sort of like two only children but she came to and she really is not a part of this world like she she she has six kids and lives in the suburbs and, you know, is just really, really not a part of media making, like the apparatus that is Hollywood.

And when she came on the set of gossip girl years ago, she said that I seemed like an astronaut going into space because the whole thing, as she could tell, I mean, she seemed fascinated by it, but she said like the whole apparatus like sort of pivots around the actors, you know, for better or worse, but that is sort of how it operates. Like when they're ready to shoot, you get called up. And then everybody is getting quiet. And then everybody's sort of like making sure you look good. Everything in front of camera looks good.

And then once you're in front of camera, it's, you know, pin drop, silent. And there's like an urgency. Yeah, sure, sure. Actually, as I said it, I was like, it's not pin drop silent. But yeah, maybe on a fincher set. On a good set, they figure out how to make the actors feel like the set revolves around them. And on a bad set, it's revealed how much it doesn't. Like, you know, and like, and that's, that's my take.

But yes, I agree. No, I think I think that's accurate because it really, it doesn't. It's, it is quite collaborative. But I think those moments leading up to, you know, action is when everything has to really tamp down. And that's so, you know, just from an outsider's respect, I remember that's what she was saying. But I can't remember being, I honestly cannot think of a time right now

that I was on set, which says something that I wasn't working. I don't think I would stick around all day, frankly. It might say that you have worked your whole life a lot and really hard. Probably, yeah, right. And that, you know, that your relationship to set is as a place of work.

And mine wasn't necessarily. I mean, it's becoming that. That's true. But it still has all of this embedded. I still feel like a lucky visitor a lot of the time. That's interesting. And I have a relationship to it that's like community where it felt like the family that I was being brought up by

were a family of the people that come together to make movies and put on plays. And so still when I walk on a set, I feel, and sometimes it's literal. Like sometimes there's a grip who'll come up to me and be like, just so you know, I hung out with you when you were four for ten hours, you know? But sometimes it's literal family and literal history, but what I really feel when I walk on set is history and family and, yeah.

Yeah, well, you know, both your parents seem to me, I mean, I don't know either of them very well at all, but I think in interviews when they're speaking about you, and what you've said is it just, it seems like they both highly value the sort of, the cultural contribution it is to make art, you know, for the person who makes it and then for hopefully, you know, the people that you're making it for. And there's something that it seems like you got the best version and the best combination of that. And sure, there's, you know, nothing is

perfect, but you just seem like you love what you do. You're like thankful that you're doing it and you're very excited to be doing it. I think that's 100% true. And I think it's actually a really lucky thing to feel because I'd be interested in what you thought about this. But I feel like in today's time, I worry about people who are growing up and entering this industry now and learning about this industry now. Because even just that horrible word, that content word, like is, we're all feeling like, my dog's trying to say. I was like, which word? Which word is it going to be?

That one. Content. Yeah. That horrible, that's horrible C-word content is, drives me insane. And I feel like I grew up, raised by people who, like, thought about films and saw the cultural impact of films, shot on film where people really seem to care about, like, what the movies were that were being made and whether or not they were good. And if this good director made another good film or a bad one and, and like who makes commercial movies and, who makes art movies and, you know, all of that was really important. And now it feels like it's all kind of blurred together and become this hodgepodge mess of

confusion, you know? And so I feel lucky to even though, because I think there's actually maybe an equal amount of opportunity to make art movies now. There's just because there's so much more accessibility. It's just the conversation is very different. So I feel lucky to have been brought up understanding, at least understanding that old conversation. Stick around. We'll be right back.

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Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. I'm also interested in what the future of media is going to be like, because, you know, the automatic part of it, the numbers, the algorithms, the computation, that's not going away. Yeah. So I'm curious.

I'm really curious to see, as you said, the next 10 years. You'll just come on season 14 of Pod Crush. Yeah, I'd like that a lot. I would like that a lot. I would be hosting. I'm curious, too. I agree. I don't think anything is going away.

I do think that as conscious, thoughtful citizens and artists and people, we get to examine our responsibility to consume that information. And whether or not it is our responsibility or if it's actually our responsibility not to. And I'm, you know, because there's all these old stories about like, you know, Sam Shepard's friends not letting him go to the party at, when his first play was on Broadway. They were like, you're going to get,

you know, consumed by the industry if you do that. Like, you can't take the praise. You got to just go back and keep writing. You're an artist man.

You're not a industry hack, you know? And now it feels like that whole attitude is dead. Maybe for the better, but nobody would tell you not to go accept your party or your award.

There's no, there's no cool level to being like, fuck the man. No one would tell you not to give your song away to an advertisement or,

you know, the, The industry is so economically deprived that artists are in no way being encouraged. You can't make a living wage and fuck the man. So, you know, we're like, you used to be able to kind of buy a house and fuck the man. And now it's really hard to. So it's, um, uh, there's a different context in which you have to fuck the man in orch to have a house now.

Yes. Basically is the, no. Yeah, it's true. No, no, that was a laugh. Not a, not a, not a, not a, not a scout. Yeah. Maya, before we were talking about your career in some sense. We're talking about art and movie making and music making. But before we talk about specific projects, I want to just ask you a couple of questions that we ask every guest on Pod Crushed about middle school. One of them is what were your first experiences around love in quotation marks? Maybe a crush or your first rejection or heartbreak. around that time, around 12. I remember at exactly 12, I had my first kiss,

and it was actually in the apartment building that my mom now lives in. Someone was having like an eighth grade graduation party, and my first kiss was this boy, who I will name Drub, named Carter Scott, and I thought he would be an appropriate person to kiss because he'd already made out with my two friends. And I was like, well, if that had already happened,

then he's probably pretty safe. And it was right around like when hookup culture was starting, but not where like, so people would come up to you at a party and they'd be like, do you want to hook up? Which in some ways is like a good consent dynamic, but it's also like very. That's what I think is the best part of that.

Yeah. Is definitely. Is the do you want to? Yeah, it's good. But it was also pretty intense when there was like three, not to overestimate my prettiness. I was just new at a new party environment.

I was not, I was kind of an unfortunate 12-year-old, but I was there and there were three boys and they were all like, hey, we're just curious, like, which one of us do you want to hook up with? And they were all standing there and I felt a lot of pressure. So I picked the one that my friends had already hooked up with because that seemed safe, you know, vetted territory. And then we went upstairs and we made out and I remember my eyes were open. And at one point I was like, I'm so sorry my mom is calling and she was not. And I was like, I take this call. I did have a cell phone.

I was, I just got to take this call. And I didn't enjoy myself very much. And so that was interesting, an interesting chapter. But my first real crush was kind of twofold. I had like a really big crush on my friend that I went to middle school with. And it was like that confusing period of like, is this girl my friend? or do I have a crush on her? Like what what's going on in this environment?

And I had, so I had that. And that was kind of sweet and confusing and like playful and lovely, actually. And then I had a big crush on this boy I would just go with who was like the bad boy who like smelted a lot of weed and like skip class and played P. Emery in the lobby. And that was the first person that I was like, I love you. and like cried over already too much ice cream and yeah

yeah so those were kind of my first experiences of that I love that the bad boy played piano in the hallway he's a bad boy but he's still an artist yeah but he's still an artist that was that was like my school was like the bad kids were like I'm cutting class and going to the net yeah I ended up going to St. Anne's which Penn I think you're familiar with

a bit and yeah and I ended up going there and it was like yeah the bad kids were the kids who'd cut class to go hang out with their art teacher. You know, it was a, it was a strange environment. We have one other question we ask everyone. I feel like your parrot story might count if you want to use that one. But if you have another one that comes to mind, we ask our guests if they have like,

there's like a particularly awkward or embarrassing memory from those tween teen years that like really stands out. There's so many. So, so many. But here's a classic. The parrot one is poetic and great. a classic is that I was on a like kind of like an outward bound style camping adventure with these two it was like this 10 12 year olds and two 18 year olds one of whom was a Hollister model okay in actual

living yeah I forgot about Hollister. Hollister breathing and he liked Taylor Swift. Oh my gosh. And he had it all. He had it all. He had it all. He liked Taylor Swift. He made amazing playlist and he was a hollish model.

And that two-week period when we were in the middle of nowhere was when I first got my period. And we were on a camping trip on the top of the mountain, like in a tent. And I thought I'd ship myself. And, you know, because that's what you think sometimes. And I was like, what is going on? And then I had to go talk to the Hollister model and tell him that we have figured out what was going on. because I'd been appropriately talked to by, you know, parental figures. And I had to explain to him that we needed to hike six miles off the trail to a convenience store

with which to purchase the appropriate equipment. And making 10, 12-year-olds hike six miles for a tampon was horrific. Wait, so you did, you did. You guys hiked the six months. Wow. And they all knew why. I don't know if they did, but we ended up at a convenience store and, you know, and I told one girl. And so, you know, you all know what happened to you tell one girl.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow, Maya, that is really, that's a classic period story. Like at the summit with the model. I mean, it's classic. Was his shirt on or off? It was on. It was on.

It was on. It was on. It did come off. It did come off at times. It did come off at times. Yeah. It was in a very eventful trip. We also got chased by a bear at one point.

This is actually a funny story and very fast, but we got chased by, we were hiking up this mountain, and then all of a sudden we turned a corner and there was a bear. And then we had to run the other way and drop our packs, because that's what you have to do. So we were all dropping our packs. They had our passports. And then we got to the bottom of the mountain.

We'd escaped the bear. And we all needed our packs back. And so we found out that they'd gotten our packs back because the bear had drunk all of our NyQuil. and then passed out on top of all of our packs. It can't not be real. This is like the opposite of cocaine bear. I love this.

He just drunk a whole water on NyQuil and like passed out. And then they were able to move the bear, inoculate the bear and move the bear and then take the back. This whole trip sounds like it's scripted. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, I know. It was very funny.

So Maya, you were currently in Atlanta filming Stranger Thing. one of the most iconic kind of projects of all time. We have a few questions. How excited are you? Oh, part two. Wait a second. I'm actually shocked that you haven't shot it yet. And I know how this stuff works.

But like that was a long time ago part one. Wait, I'm sorry. Isn't there a part one? Yeah, there was a part one. You're filming. Yeah, it's the last season. The last season. It's the last season.

Yeah. Okay. But the first part did come out. Is that not true? I guess it depends on how you're talking about it. Like the season four, season four and season five are very connected. That's what it is. That's what it is.

And season four had a part one and part two because they separated them. So the last two episodes came out at a different time, which is unusual for streaming. But this is its own season. It is a continuation. But, you know, it's the finale. And it has been a lot. long time since last season. This show has been a little bit cursed. Like the pandemic happened right as we were starting the season four. The strike happened right as we were starting this

season. We're very lucky and our showrunners, Matt and Ross, are really take a lot of responsibility. They have an amazing team of writers, but they're very involved. And they write a lot and they're very intense and serious about the quality of the continued writing. And so it takes a long time to write each season. So there's always a big, and it takes a long time to shoot them. Because they're, you know, we're making

basically eight movies. How long is your season? Eight episodes. But like how long is it take to shoot it? Oh, a year. A year. That's a really long production for a TV show. Yes. It is. That's true. So Atlanta is like your second home.

Yeah. You know what? It's become that. I've had a really interesting relationship to it over the years when I first came here. It was the loneliest place in the world, my first season. I was so lonely. And I really, I think I thought that I was going to go to like summer camp. Like I, and but because it's such a big ensemble show, and I wonder if, you know, you've worked on big ensemble shows and on leading parts and,

being on a big ensemble show is like a lot of time off. It's like they have, they've got you, right? Like you're a series regular. They've got you, but they don't need you every day. So it's a lot of waiting for your turn and being on hold and weather cover. It's like just enough that you're always busy, but you're not. And so you're, yeah, you're in this sort of. Just enough that you're not available to do anything else, but not enough that you're actually busy or tired.

So it's tricky, but it's great. And like, it's every year I've gotten closer and closer with my cast and gotten more and more comfortable in the city and more and more able to take care of myself here and bring community here and build, both bring and build. So this season, I'm really happy. I love my house. I figured out what neighborhood I wanted to live in. You know, all these things that are so important that when you grow up in New York, especially, like, like that city is so small in a certain way. Like you can kind of live anywhere and get to anywhere and you don't have to drive. And when you, when you're out here in the world, it's important

that you're in the right, in the neighborhood that you like, near people that you like and near restaurants you like and that you can walk. And it takes a while to figure that out, you know, but I did it just in the nick of time. Yeah. I loved, I love your character of Robin. And I feel like you, a character brought something really playful to season three. And I wondered what it was like to become part of a show that was already such a sensation, like to join in season three. You know, it was intimidating, especially because I'm a person who loves TV. Like, as a viewer, I'm almost a little embarrassed about it, but not, but getting less and less. Like, I, I like, procedurals. I like sitcoms. Like I love our movies and I go to the movies and I watch them,

but I watch a lot of TV in my personal downtime. Like it's on when I'm doing the laundry and I put it on in the morning and it's like I'm a little bit addicted to background noise, I think. And I often feel that when they bring in new characters and shows, um, that I get frustrated. Like I'm like, I like my original cast. I don't need this to follow this new plot line. I like, you know, I understand that the main cast wants some time off, but, you know, and the show, so I was worried about, you know,

people feeling about my character that way. And such a beloved show. And I was intimidated and, you know, but what I quickly figured out is that the star of stranger things is the writing and the style. And,

and that it is actually such a functional, um, kind of, uh, that if you just kind of breathe and and exist within it and tell the jokes and you know and and follow the story and and care it it really holds you really well it doesn't leave you hanging out to dry it anyway um and so i i was i was very pleasantly surprised you know my now that you're saying that i feel like stranger things has introduced new characters better than almost

anyone like sadie in season two was so well received you in season three eddie in season four Like, every new character has brought something new and fresh to the show that I think almost everyone would have welcomed. But yeah, that is actually unusual. I think that that's true. I think that a lot of credit goes to Carmen Cuba for that. She's an incredible casting director. And she is so thoughtful about what the show needs and what a good counterbalanced energy. And also the premise that the brothers do where they always take a new character and put.

put them with a beloved character, especially in the beginning, like putting me with Joe. Yeah. Everyone wants to see what Joe here is going to do next. And putting, you know, Eddie with Gaten. And, you know, literally anytime Gaten's on screen, it's a fun, it's a good time to watch. So they really also take care of their new cast by not leaving them out to dry on their own arc that no one's invested in. They involve them in essential arcs. which I think is a crucial way to introduce a new character.

Yeah, that is amazing. This is an aside, but have you ever seen the treatment for Stranger Things what they use to sell it? No. Okay, we can send it to you, but I think you can also Google it. Just for anyone who's listening who's in production, this gets passed on. Penn and I are producers. We have like TV shows and movies in production. This gets passed on to you as a new producer for like, this is the gold standard of treatments.

If you can emulate this, your treatment will stand out. And it's completely true. It's like the treatment for Stranger Things is art. It's incredible. I highly recommend it. Oh, I want to see it. That's awesome. We'll send it to you. Awesome. Yeah, it's a lovely, lovely thing.

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Elevate your savings with the Scotia high-interest savings account. Always earn high regular interest rates that grow the more you save and invest. Conditions apply. Visit Scotia Bank.com slash H-I-SA to learn. more. Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Hey guys, we're Elizabeth Chambers and Marissa Hermor. You may know it's from television, business, and other things. We're talking about the stuff that really matters. Every week we're celebrating women and getting real about divorce, dating, motherhood, sex, friendship, and everything in between. It's honest, hilarious, unfiltered, and proof that this chapter of life is the best one yet. So if you're ready to laugh, feel seen,

and join the conversation, come hang out with us. This is The Dash. Listen and subscribe to The Dash wherever you get your podcast. Okay, I have some questions about working with your dad, and I think you have an upcoming project with your mom. So you start opposite, if anyone doesn't know, her dad is Ethan Hawk. You played his daughter in the miniseries, The Good Lord Bird. And what was it like to play your real father's fictional daughter? You know, it wasn't as, I mean, it wasn't as eventful as, as he would think. He's a wonderful actor and is wonderful to act with. and I've been acting with him my whole life,

you know, like reading plays in our living room and doing things like the play reading that Penn and I did together. And, you know, that's been a kind of constant in my life. And so it actually just felt very integrated. Maya, you are also a musician. I know that Penn is the most musical of the three. So I think he had a few questions about your music

that I won't steal from him. Yeah, well, so first of all, I did notice that you said that you're, And any quote, even if it's not a sensational quote, I don't want to take it out of context and hold you to it, but you have been quoted saying that you were the most excited about releasing this record, and it's coming out end of May, is that right? Yeah.

It's definitely the most excited I've ever been about releasing a music project. Okay, okay, that makes sense. And I think that what I'm really talking about is that I feel like I've been, in every realm of my work, actually, but especially in music, really learning on the job, learning about recorded music, learning about writing music, and I think that with every record that I've made, the space between what I want to have made and what I made

is getting narrower because I'm learning more how to have this song I hear in my head come out of the speakers. And so I am surrounding myself with people who are getting to know me more and better and better and know how to help me do that too. And so I, that's why I hope that every record I put out, it becomes the most excited I've ever been to put anything out because I hope that I just keep closing that gap.

Yeah, that makes sense. You mentioned the people that you're making it with. I know two of them. I forget if you know this, Ben and Will. You know Ben and Will? Yeah, so they've played not only with my wife, but Domino. Yeah, I do nervous a little bit. They also have played with Joan as policewoman.

Have you heard this? Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, they're amazing together. Yeah, they are amazing together. Ben is this incredible, I mean, all the people we're mentioning are incredible multi-instrumentalists, really. Ben is particularly in just the technical craft of playing a few different instruments. He is like, he's a master, right? I mean, he's like...

No, you could either have him in your band or have three people. Wow. He does the job of three people. Yeah, he's incredibly talented. He's got a little bit of like savant energy. He's very, very gifted. Like, as a bass player, he's just insane what he brings as a, so I don't know a lot about him as a songwriter or Will. And Will plays guitar.

I hope I'm remembering that correctly, right? Will plays, well, plays guitar like no one I've ever. He plays a lot of things. He can play piano and he can play, but his extension of his arm, like his soul. know, his extension of his self is his guitar. And, yeah. So I'm just curious, how, you know, how did you meet them and is your writing process with them or do you sort of write more like you in a guitar or a piano? It's been different for all of my records. My first record, I met them as session musicians. They were hired by Jesse Harris, who I was co-writing with for my first

record just to play in the band. And I got along with them really well and was really inspired by them. And so then I made my second record with Ben producing and Will and Ben writing. And then Ben got this guy involved in Christian Lee Hudson, who also now happens to be my boyfriend. And he wrote music and played on that on my second record. And now he's produced. my third record and Ben and Will have written music and played on it. So I've been kind of like just collecting people and writing styles and adapting and changing in the way it was. And for my first two records, it was very clean cut. I would write poems and send them and they would put music to them and send them back. And then we would kind of see if they fit right and make some little changes.

And then that would be the song. And then on this record, I wrote a lot more music. And it really darted me on a journey that I'm on in a major way right now of becoming a more empowered writer and musician on my own. I think that something that I wrote all my own songs and sang until I was like 14, then I stopped playing music for a while, then I started again. And when I started again, I started working with Ben and Will and Jesse. And they're so good. Like Penn was saying, they're so amazing. And at the stage that I was in my own development, when I kind of heard the song being played by them, I was like, I don't need to play.

Even if I could play that song, why would I bother? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it kind of wasn't until really I saw the, no, it wasn't until I started realizing that there were people who were playing on stage and writing songs and singing them with chords that I knew. You know, Ben and Will are like jazz trained, school of music. And they deconstruct everything.

And they play in a way that you can't replicate. You're like, nope, that's that's impossible. But then I started to realize that actually there are simpler ways to play the same songs and that I could play along that that wasn't embarrassing.

That it was actually inspiring. Like I saw, especially some women artists on stage playing and not just standing there singing. and playing chords I knew. And I was like, whoa, that actually, even though I know that that person might not be as skilled an instrumentalist as will, I'm inspired by them. And I want to have that effect on the young women who come to see my shows and people who come to see my show, they're primarily young women.

And so I want to play guitar. I want to not just write the words to my songs, but write some other music to. And so I've been in a real, I don't know, news. musical renaissance in my life right now. That's so cool. I want to be mindful of your time. And so we'll get to the last question. But right before I just wanted to highlight something that I heard you say about

music that really struck a chord with me. Uh-huh. Actually, the other day we were asking each other. What's the worst fun we've ever made? That's probably the worst. Okay. Anyway, this really struck me. And I don't really have a question about it.

I just want our listeners to hear what you said if they don't go and listen to that other interview. but I was wondering what itch does music scratch for Maya that acting doesn't and vice versa? Like what do they give her? And you actually answered it in this interview. You said they feel like music is a place where you learn about yourself and acting is where you learn about other people. That like acting is an empathetic exercise where you like put yourself in the shoes of someone else. But that music is like more introspective maybe.

You said it really much more beautifully and succinctly, but I just wanted to highlight that for our listeners. I really struck a chord with me about like just highlighting the differences between those two art forms. I thought that was beautiful. But I think everyone also has their own. I think some people really see acting as an exploration of the self. And, you know, and their music as a character they play.

You know, like I know people who write that way and think that way. For me, I feel like. I'm always a better actor, the better I'm in relationship with myself. Like, I think therapy helps with acting. I think music helps with acting because the more you know about yourself, the more you can imagine yourself relating to anybody, which might be a little bit of what I was talking about seeing too much gray, is that I find that I can like understand the point of view, even of people who are doing horrible things.

Like, you know, and I think that's an important thing about acting is, you know, you really have to see your character, you have to see the world from their point of view and not judge their actions more than they would judge their own actions. And, but then with music, I really feel myself trying to delve into my own thinking and my own processing and getting yourself better.

So I think that the two really service each other in that way. The better you understand the world, the better you understand yourself, the better you understand yourself to run into the world. Yeah. I like that. You know, that makes me think that in a certain sense it depends on which part of the process we're talking about,

because writing music, in my experience, has been deeply introspective, and I think I agree with what you're saying. But then once you're playing it live and it's been released, it very much becomes a character. Yes, I completely agree with you. I completely agree with you. And you're actually discovering things that you never intend. Well, in some sense, you seem to really intend,

but these deeper spiritual truths emerge out of the music when you're playing them for like two years on end, say. And you're like, wow, that's really deep. did mean that about myself and what I was going through, but I didn't even understand that then, you know? And I did want to access that part of myself that I have to use to perform this song. And now I have more agency over because I've done it over and over again for a year. You know, yeah. And with acting, I wonder if, you know, for me, I sometimes have the most personal reflections after it's over and I'm having to talk about it endlessly impress.

Because then I have to connect it to myself and I'm like, what? What do I? How do I relate? this curious. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I think I do want to want to kill this journalist right now. No, that's not. That's not fair.

I've never had that thought ever in my life. I completely believe it. Should I've said it more like this up at the end? I've never had that idea ever in my life. Never wanted to. Yeah. Okay. So back to you for our last question. If you could go back to 12-year-old Maya,

is there anything that you would say or do? I feel like I would talk. to myself about practicing and about about about body in a big way. I think a thing that happened in my late, late teens, early 20s that I wish had happened in my earlier development is my relationship to my body shifted from one that was about how it looked to about what it can do. And that really happened through physical movement where I was initially only, only really saw even taking a walk as like a path to burn calories kind of like and as a like and and

and then I started it was really in drama school where I was like whoa I think it's fun to be able to do this dance and to be able to do a cart reel and to be able to be you know on stage and not get tired and to be able to work this long and feel good in my body and to you know asleep on all kinds the different beds on tour and not be in pain. And so both in terms of like practicing guitar, practicing dance, physical exercise, yoga, movement, team sports. Like, it's not about being good. It's about doing it. And if you do do it, you do get better.

And I would try to help my 12-year-old self understand that, that, that, you know, when I that it's not you're not failing like that in all of these things you apply yourself to even if you feel like you're not as good as the other kids or whatever it doesn't matter do it like you we will I will thank you later um and I think that would be one of the things I would talk about and the other things I could imagine telling myself it's hard for me to know what the negative ramifications of them would be like if I was like you don't have to worry so much or like wait a little while to have sex or like you know whatever whatever the advice would be I feel like there's a role in which there could be ramifications but I think I'd

be like look everything is going to be okay you're wildest dreams are going to come true and you're not even going to be that happy about them um like don't worry uh um you're going to be disappointed by everything you could possibly dream of right now. And it'll all be fine. We would be really grateful, you know, as a team, older self plus younger self, if you would like do some more sports. And go to your dance class and go to your guitar lesson.

We'd like to be a little better guitar and we'd like to be a bit better of a dancer. So, you know, practice. Maya's talking to match 12-year-old self as well. Request. And maybe like, don't get that. an iPhone. Like, I know it seems cool.

Don't do it. Like, just stay with that. I love that chocolate. You got that chocolate. That little, that little phone on. Keep that shit. Don't do it. Don't go.

And those might be my only things that I think would have no negative repercussions. Those all sound like 12 year old Maya would receive them except for the iPhone. I think she'd turn around after you left and she'd be like, like, fuck my old herself. I'm getting an iPhone. 12 year old Maya actually wouldn't. I was weirdly, this is a part of the free-hugging, no cursing vigilante. Like, when a Wi-Fi got installed at my mom's house upstate, I cried. Like, I was like, this is the place where my, you know, my adults, I have all their attention.

Like, please don't, like, please don't bring this force here. I like that we have to use a DVD player. I like that here. And I think I would have been like, okay. And I would have wrote it out of it like, future self-send. And then when we were like 15 and we wanted one, I remember actually even when I was first given when I wasn't that excited about it. The whole addiction had to be formed. Like I wasn't initially that interested.

And then when the addiction was formed, now I find it difficult to think about getting rid of it. And I can think of all these practical reasons why I should like Google Maps or all these things where I'm like, well, I couldn't live without that. But of course, people did and I could. And so, you know, all these reasons why I keep my little addiction to my reels and my background television. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you, Maya. Thank you for coming on.

Thank you. You can keep up with Maya Hawks acting and music work online at Maya underscore Hawk. That's Hawk with an E. Maya, do you remember your first impression of Penn? It's okay if you don't. It's complicated, honestly, because I am, I'm 25. So I didn't get to form a first impression of Penn. My first impression of Penn was as a gossip girl to my great pride and a shame.

So I didn't get to form a proper first impression. But my first impression was, oh, this guy is very nice. He is quite shy. He is like, I cannot tell if he is completely disinterested in me or if he just is minding his own business. in like a really cool way. And that he was a very good actor and a very kind person. So can I also can't tell if he's completely

disinterested. I was going to say, yeah, the only one. Still trying to figure that out. This family is on the brink of Civil War on September 18th. Mobland. The hit original series is back on Paramount Plus. We are the Hurricanes.

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I'll give you a more. Glad, new season hits September 18th on Paramount Plus. Have you ever watched someone you love struggle with something really hard and had no idea how to help them? I'm Stephanie Whittleswax, and I certainly have. My show, last day, started with a question I've been asking myself. ever since I lost my brother Harris to a heroin overdose. What could I have done differently? That's what my new book is all about. It's called Last Day, How to Stop Losing Our Loved Ones to the Opioid Crisis. I'm going to read you a little preview. I hope you enjoy it. We hear about the opioid crisis so often that we've become desensitized to it.

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