Podcrushed - [Rerun] Ramy Youssef

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

In honor of our friend Ramy Youssef's recent SNL performance, and the overwhelming success of his Academy Award winning film Poor Things, we're rerunning our episode with him! Come join us as Penn falls in love with our guest, Ramy Youssef (award-winning actor, producer, and stand-up comic). Ramy shares what it was like to be a Muslim kid in New Jersey the day after 9/11, why he loves Jesus but won't eff with Santa, and why in middle school he literally would have rather shit his pants than miss out on a good time. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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So he's a lamb-peel-lough guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum, available at your local pet-smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try-n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Hey, it's Lena Waith. Legacy Talk is my love letter to black storytellers. artists who've changed the game and paved the way for so many of us. This season, I'm sitting down with icons like Felicia Rashad, Loretta Divine, Ava DuVernay, and more.

We're talking about their journeys, their creative process, and the legacies they're building every single day. Come be a part of the conversation. Season two drops July 29th. Listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast, or watch us on YouTube. Hey there. Friend of the pod, Rami Yousef, recently hosted SNL, not to mention his film, Poor Things, has been, well, it did score a handful of Oscar nominations. So to celebrate Rami's continued success, we're rerunning his episode. We love Rami. You love Rami. You should love this episode. Take a listen. I had FOMO really bad. I didn't want to miss out on anything. And so I would have to go to the bathroom. Like, I'd have to poop.

But I'd be like, well, I don't want to go poop because, like, while I do it, something cool could happen. Oh, wow. I love that. But then I'd shit my pants. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're your hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava.

And I'm Sophie. And I think we could have been your middle school besties. Practicing our secret handshake that we do publicly, but is still somehow a secret. You know what? I was going to ask you guys about this might be too much. We ask every guest's question, but I think we let us. ourselves off the hook when it was our episode. So I want to know about your first crush.

I know. I'm pretty sure I mentioned mine. Did we answer that? I'm not, I'm not. The clock is ticking, Sophie. Go. Penn is not participating. I was just filled with feelings.

Really? I mean, where, which one? You know? Your password was Boy Crazy 99, wasn't it? Yeah, Boy Crazy 64, I think. But, you know, kind of like our guest today, you'll hear him say that his first crush he can remember was in kindergarten

I think me too like it was so early I think I was six years old I remember there was a boy who was like a neighbor and we performed the tango for our parents and he had held a rose between his teeth I remember that when you were five

yeah that's amazing you have very colorful like romantic stories I love them as an aside I like really one day want to write a screenplay about Sophie's different love story. She knows this. I interviewed her once and I still think about it. Maybe one day. Maybe one day. My first crush was also in kindergarten. His name was Giancarlos

Ortega. He had beautiful green eyes and I would think about him every day at nap time. That's so cute. At a nap time. I would like fall, I would like drift into nap time thinking about Giancarlo. That is so, it's funny because it's poetic and it just seems so mature and you were five? Five. It's just, it's funny. Nava's always had it in her. Yeah. No, look, I mean, I can remember those very deep stirrings of like that feeling at that age and and and having a crush there was

I don't quite remember her name it was like Christine or Christina I don't remember which one and it was it was a it was it was it was a it was a thing you know a crush but wow the fact that we at that age are having whatever notions those are it's just I want to know more about the like the the psychology and the biology of that you know who isn't going to be able to tell us anything about that is uh is uh well not only none of us but not our guests today uh we've got um he so much else that this was a lovely conversation i was going to say it's one of my favorite conversations i might say that a lot but it ends up being true in its own way every time um just wait because pen in this episode there is a moment where he falls in love with our guest yeah you'll

hear it and i will name it but there's a moment yeah and actually i'm not kidding but watch this one on YouTube because you can see it on it. I'm like, I think Penn is about to propose to Rami. Like, Penn is in love. Tears came to my eyes after the moment passed because I was just like, it was refreshing, you'll hear it, whatever. You don't need to build it up. Now the bar is

really high. But yeah, so we have Rami Yousef. If you don't know who that is already, he's a comedian, actor, writer, director, he's got a huge show that he won, we're still unclear if it's an Emmy or Golden Globe. for his show, which is his own name, Rami.

It's about a millennial Muslim American navigating the realities and absurdities of modernity and identity. Could we get any more itties in there? While the fictional Rami struggles to find his place in the world, that is just not the case with this one. He's killing it.

He's killing the game. He's got a Peabody, two Golden Globes. He's co-created Netflix's Moe, from the comedian Mo Amir. I think I'm saying that name correctly. I hope I am. Rami was just a delight, and he really, really drilled into our very premise

of this whole middle school period. So we hope you stick around. I don't know if you know this. On the way up here, there's like the guys who do the scanning card. Yeah, down at the front desk. Yeah. Okay, they love you.

I know. They know. Because they know your whole IMDB. This guy was like walking. Yeah. through like Easy A, he's walking you through all the seasons of you. Like, he was just like, you know who you're seeing, right?

And then I'm just like, that's so cute. And then he just like went through the whole tech of you. No, I was actually, I know, over time I've discovered that and I'm, you know, the few of them I've spoken with a lot and, yeah, it's

He takes them to coffee every morning to brief them on how to greet a guest. Make sure you know how to tell them. Don't forget that I was the other talk to. I had this. Don't leave out the stepfather. Yeah, yeah. And they didn't.

the stepfather came up I mean this was all during just the check-in process yeah we should get it was ready it's a two-minute process that became 10 because there's just like genuine enthusiasm for you but we had this like you know conversation about EZA which is such a good thing

that's so fun that's true I'm just going to have a real hot takey first question please you were what around about I think you were in middle school as a Muslim in America after 9-11 Yeah. Is that accurate?

Very accurate. So what was that like? You know, it's wild. I've been thinking about this period of time a lot. I didn't think about that period for like 15 years. Like, I just didn't even, it like happened, and I think it was really intense, and then I tried to just act like it didn't happen. Then we did this episode of it in the first season of my show on Hulu,

and then we got to, you know, I was writing all this stuff about the period, and then I was like, whoa, there's a lot that I didn't ever process. And I think the big thing was, it was just this thing of like, there was only a few Muslim families, and then you kind of see what's happening on the news and whatever, and there's this fear, and we were right outside New York too. So we're, you know, my dad's working in New York.

Everyone has family there. And I think I realized many years later, the level of fear wasn't just people kind of coming in it was that self fear of like oh wait is what people are saying about us true so there's this like fear you have of yourself and I think that to me was the most interesting thing to zone into as I was writing and now we're doing this like really wild animated show set

in 2001 in middle school it's about this family that which I think is kind of real to where we were where you're kind of getting looked at so much that there's this performance you start doing of like no no we're so cool You can't be afraid of us And so the animated show is about this father with his kids And it's a whole family really But he sets out after that day

To say that they're not just going to be the best fit They're going to be like the number one family And the show is called number one happy family USA But that act of that performance though And kind of like I think you know we're performers And we have like a natural desire to want to be liked but then it was like really amped up

where you're like oh man I feel like I'm on I'm playing mega defense right now Right this idea of like Oh is what As you said it's like they Say about us true You know the quote unquote they and the quote unquote Right like can you

I'm kind of interested like at that time What were some of those things you know I mean like I always put it this way where it's like You know This is where like the word minority feels really real because you're like there are just fewer of us. You know, there's like the majority, there's the minority, you know? So it's just

like quite simply, there's fewer of us. And then you're like, okay, so who are the Muslims I know? My parents, right? And then I'm a kid and my parents are my enemy half the time. So, and then everyone's like, you know, and Muslims are the enemy and I'm like, well, these guys have already been like telling me to clean my room when I don't want to.

These guys, like, I kind of have some beef with them to begin with. I love them, but you know, they're difficult. And and now there's a larger case being made against them you know where do I fall what side am I going to be on and and obviously you know joking aside it was just this uh this you know this fear of like not knowing you know there's just this not knowing and uh you know you when you don't have information and everything's very emotional uh yeah that self fear was a part that i didn't realize for really long time uh and then you know

I think it, for me, created ultimately an intimacy with my faith and intimacy with the various communities that I'm a part of because there was that fear. And then I was like, well, wait, is that true? And then realizing, of course, it's not true that, you know, the way we're being painted has nothing to do with who we actually are and how we live. But there was like a closeness that ended up being created in that quest to figure that out that I'm actually really appreciative of, you know. just that thing of like yeah going through those experiences but you know being uh yeah being in middle school at the time it's it's yeah it was wild so you said you didn't have maybe any of their Muslim friends is that right or like there were just a few other families you knew it was like yeah it was like two families in our town um and and then it was yeah there was like a couple people

we kind of knew but it wasn't you know we weren't in the middle of a community i know people who move to the states but then they like a bunch of people from their home country get spots in the same community and they all go to the same activities and do all that we weren't part of that that wasn't what we had going on

so it was maybe like I know that for like a young white kid during this time period happens to be the same time but just middle school is like I'm trying to think of what I might have thought about identity and I think one of the strange things about whiteness is that it has the myth of like not being an identifier you know it's the sort of it's the it's the the the the myth of a universal

identity and now I think like our current middle schoolers are thinking so much about identity you know so there's kind of like opposites there and I'm just wondering maybe if this was like the one it must have added a new dimension to the way you were thinking about identity right I mean, yeah, it did. I mean, like, I already had the, I think it was already front and center just by, like, not doing Christmas, which is very traumatic. It's, like, deeply, like, whoa, you know, I mean, this is big, you know. Like, so when you're young and you know the truth about Christmas, it's like a really big burden, because you kind of can't tell anybody. The truth.

Yeah, the truth. Is it about Santa or Jesus? Which one? It's about Santa. We, we rock with Jesus. We do. Oh, that's what you. Yeah, yeah.

That's, of course. Yeah. There's some, like, different specifics we have on you. I actually do know that. I want to clarify, we are Baha'i. All three of us happen to be Baha'i. Have you ever heard of the Baha'i face?

Of course. Okay, so is this true, Nava and Sophie? I don't think you grew up with Christmas either. No. Yeah. And I grew up in Puerto Rico, which is intensely Christian. Oh, yeah, they love Christmas. And there aren't even like Muslims or Jews, really.

There's like a few, not in my school. So I was the only other religion, and it was very strange to not celebrate. Yeah, I spent my formative years in the Philippines, which is, like, very Catholic, very Christmas heavy. So, yeah. And when you said it's kind of traumatic. I feel you. Oh, right?

I mean, just like to not go, like, and then you, yeah, you feel cynical. And, you know, it's like, it's like you don't have an imagination. And then I, and you can't say it. I remember being pulled, like, a teacher was like, dude, you got to stop. Wow. You got to stop saying. And I'm like, saying what? You know, she's like, that Santa's not real.

I'm like, but he's not. And she goes, yeah, I know, but. Let's just keep it down. And I'm not getting in trouble for telling the truth. I mean, this is crazy. And the thing is, like, real life is. is magical. Like a small seed,

I couldn't agree more. A small seed becomes a tree. Yes. Why do we got to say this big dude goes through the chimney? I know. The parents don't get credit for like maxing out their credit cards.

The whole thing is dark. Like it doesn't make any sense. I fully, fully agree. So, all right. And still have Christmas. It's just the Santa part. Why?

Right. We're going to name this episode taking down Christmas with Rami Houston. No, but see, but the problem is that'll be really valuable because there's a war against Christmas,

which is a whole other. It will be really like for us. So you will fall under the bus. I don't want to be far from the war. Okay, here's what I'll say. In terms of the war against Christmas, I don't like happy holidays. I like Merry Christmas,

especially when it's Christmas week. Right, because of what other holidays are there? Just the week of Christmas? Sometimes, though, it will be Hanukkah. Sometimes it'll be Hanukkah. But I know my friends who do Hanukkah. I know my friends who do Christmas, you know what I mean? So I guess it's like, okay, maybe if you're Macy's,

you got to say it. But don't say happy. You know, let's just say Merry Christmas. Yeah, that's fair. So just for anyone out there who might think I have a word against Christmas, I really don't have a word against Christmas. I say it's against Santa, who is not in the text. Yeah, who's not real.

Santa's not in the text. None of them. So if we want to get textual, there's no issue with what I'm saying. I'm curious, you describe feeling more intimacy with your faith and with your culture. and that's so interesting to me I feel like you can go one of two ways if you feel like you're not fitting in with the mainstream you can either like eschew what you what makes you different or you can you can embrace it and become really close to it and I wonder at that young age I think it's tempting to to try to fit in and so what was it in your life was your what did your parents do

what was it in you that sort of pushed you to just become closer and more intimate with the things that made you different. Yeah, I think you're totally right. There's sometimes this wanting to erase. And I never, and I just knew that felt really incorrect. I just knew there was too much love I had felt in those spaces. That's cool. And so I said, okay, well, I'm scared.

I have, you know, this is like a, I know I'm young and I feel this like information issue. But yeah, so it just, it kind of set me on a bit of like, a fact-finding mission where I was like, okay, I'm scared. It's created a self-fear, but I also feel like that's probably off to, I just need to know the truth, you know? And so, and again, I think the thing that I also felt was like just watching the news and seeing everything. I did know, you know, these are the same people who also propagate Santa. So they're probably lying about this too. Yes. I mean, that's true. It's a good joke, but it's also true. That's why I didn't laugh

Because I was appreciating the profundity first You're not wrong I did just get it out At 10 he already knew that late stage Capitalism was ruining everything Don't get me started on the Christmas industrial complex I have two follow-ups What was your relationship like with your family

Like I mean you made the joke about sort of hating them and loving them But like what was it like And tell us more about your faith Sort of like at it seems to be a really prominent part of your life Is it something that you felt early on? Did you ever struggle with your Muslim identity? I'd love to hear more about that.

I have the best parents. They're awesome. My favorite thing about my parents is that anything that bothers me about our relationship or anything that happened as a kid was truly just like, well, they didn't know.

You know what I mean? It's just like we all, like it's so clear. And it's like you don't, like, and I think it's also interesting too when you look at grandparents because it's like you look at grandparents and you look at parents and you look at how your parents parent's parent and then you can get a vibe off your grandparents and then you're like and I love my grandparents and they

did the best they knew but it's like you kind of look at it and I was always like oh man my parents are dope like they do things really different from both their sets of parents you know so I really appreciated that and then any frustration I was like well not everyone can do anything

you know can do everything I mean you know and so so I definitely always had this deep respect for where they were at and what they were trying to do and, you know, especially, yeah, just not being from this country, right? Yeah. And then I think just the simplest way I can even put the faith relationship was I just, since I was a kid, knew there is this, like, I loved praying.

Like, I just loved this private conversation with God, and I knew like that, I do that. No, no, I'm just like, I do. I love you, Ronnie. Like, that's so real. How is that not? It's, I knew it. I knew it watching your show.

I knew it. I was just like, there's no way this man won't say this today. Of course. And they even laughed at me. Because I had a question about that, you know. Yeah, he does. He does. It's just, you know, it's just beautiful to hear somebody say that unabashedly.

Because you just don't hear it that much. Sure. And like, you know, you know. Or people say it and apologize. Right. Yes. It's that unapologetic, you know, just. clear, direct

faith, you know and that can mean so many things. It can mean so many things but it's like, look, we all have a relationship with the unseen, right? And so to me prayer is this really beautiful faithful leading with love connection to

the unseen as opposed to sitting in like only my fears and anxieties, which is also like sitting in your fear and anxiety is a form of praying because you're just sitting with the unseeing. You're just sitting with what you can't see, right? But it's like what version of sitting with what you can't see do you want to have?

And so it's like, do you want the one that's aspirational? Do you want the one that's like building something that is, you know, has accountability and has love and has, you know, I mean, and I don't blame people for not saying it really openly just because, you know, like religions become like a dark business. So it's like I'm not, you know, The last couple swings at it, you know, the immediate, I would say, preceding generations, not great. You know, so I'm totally, I get the landscape, but also, to me, this is real.

Yeah. Can I just say as an aside, sorry, Penn, I know you're so happy and you want to jump in? We only have so much time, man. I love talking about religion publicly. One of my favorite things to do for a number of reasons. But I think also that it's like not fair to not. knowledge that religion in our hands is subject to

all the forces that everything else is. So just like science is subject to the forces of late stage capitalism and there's corruption in that. Of course there's also corruption in religion. It doesn't mean that you throw away science. So why do people who have faith have to throw away religion or pretend that it's not like a part of their lives that is meaningful

just because it's touched by those same forces? It's like anything emotional and intimate, right? So it's even like the business we work in, it's like a set can be the most loving, amazing place. that people are at their creative peak doing something that's like an offering for the world or it can be like a really dark, twisted, ego-driven thing

and people go along with it because they know there's something at the core that's really beautiful but it's like in these really bad hands and so it's like you see it in almost anything that means anything. There's like the version that's awesome and you just feel like the most alive you've ever felt

And it's aversion, that's just, yeah, dark. It's manipulated. It's true. Yeah, totally. And we'll be right back. All right, so let's just real talk, as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it?

But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like, you want. your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder. I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like

when I'm not getting to sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually but I need something to hold me down physically right and so honestly I turned to symbiotica these these these these these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious and I'm telling you even before I started doing ads for these guys it was a product that I I really really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with the three that I use I use the the what is it called liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious like really really good

comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that i do it i think it tastes great i use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning really good for gut health and although i don't need it you know anti-aging and then i also use the magnesium l3 and 8 which is really good for for i think mood and stress i sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible um honestly you you don't even need to mix it with water and yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping.

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or in development and probably soon to be. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't have to acknowledge it or whatever, but it seems to be true. Like, you know, from your stand-up to your show and to the things you're developing now with your company, it seems like you're just directly translating the things you care most about

into, like, really relatable projects, which is ultimately the work of an artist. you know i mean it's like so i guess i'm curious about two things so one is is we it's a podcast but also just we culturally don't hear a lot of younger cooler people talking about prayer and like mysticism like the mystical dimension to religion and spirituality and because you said as a child you loved

prayer that to me like as a person who was not encouraged to pray until i found faith on my own in my 20s and then have just just like reclaimed it with such a vigor you know and I'm just like where was this when I was 12 and depressed you know literally like yeah so I want to hear about what that was just what was your relationship to prayer or to

to that special mysterious place in us all and then and then art like what was your because that's related to art that's part of the news process and what was your relationship to like what kind of artist were you becoming performer or whatever when I was a kid I just loved cameras

and I think it's because I watched my dad my dad would work like crazy shifts but then he'd come home after doing like an overnight or something and we'd be waking up and he'd pull out the video camera like he just loved videotaping us

like it was like his you know and it was that area it sounds sweet oh it's so sweet we have all we're like well documented children I can like look back and I don't even know if I have memories of being a kid or if I'm remembering the videos because I've seen them. Like I'm not sure. That's kind of precious. Yeah, yeah. Like I feel like

my memory is like online starting like 11. Like before that I don't know how much I actually know. Um, in general I have kind of not the greatest memory. Like, and I don't even, I used to, used to frustrate me, but I kind of, I am very much uh, not wanting to be in the past that much for better or for worse. is just kind of I guess how I am I can't it's not even a choice

it's just I'm just like here you know but yeah that the the obsession with cameras and making things was really early for me like I remember it was the first thing I saved up for as a kid

and I remember waiting for the package to come in the mail and I don't know if you were like just being younger like when like the it took forever for something to come yeah it was great just you hear the truck on your street and you're like today might be my day and then it isn't and then it just goes by and oh i'd be so upset for like the two hours after that

you know because i've been waiting for that sound um but i i was yeah i would go around the neighborhood and i'd make things and i would uh you know put my friends in them and then i would edit them and then slowly i kind of started to be like oh i'll be in something you know and i'd put myself in something and it was all really organic because i never thought it would ever amount to anything professional, you know, even to the point where when I left high school, I had just finished doing my last play. And I remember telling my high school theater teacher, I was like, oh, man, this is the last time I'm going to perform on stage. Wow. That's interesting. And she's like, what are you talking about? And I was like, yeah, because I got to go to school. And like,

but didn't she study, you study political science, but didn't you also have some other thing in performing? Yeah. So, well, what happened was, so I'm leaving high school and I, and I'm going to Rutgers to study political science and economics. And I, yeah, I, yeah, I, Yeah, I'm like, that's it, you know, because I couldn't imagine that I'd be able to make a career out of what I was doing in high school. But then, you know, my buddies who I was doing sketch comedy with were like, well, let's just go to an improv jam at midnight. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I guess I could do that. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like, I thought life was just going to turn on and like real world would happen after high school.

I was so just blind to anything else. I thought the whole world was just going to change the second I went to college. But then it was like, no, I still like performing. I still like doing these things. and then I was like well maybe I'll take an acting class like it kind of snuck up on me until I you know but I never did it thinking would be a career

so it was in a sense when I look back at it I realize how there was something pure about me doing it certainly as a young kid but even the older I got in that I was just doing it because I loved it and I was like but this is probably going to end here you know that's pure though that was yeah it had that thing

like and and unaware of of it being that but I just was like there's no way. I don't know anybody. But I really like doing that. And then I think, you know, the, I guess this is another thing more I think about it, even also seeing my dad pray in the morning.

We're supposed to pray five times a day. I just see him do it every morning. And I remember thinking, yeah, that's, that looks like a great way to start the day. And, you know, we get down on the floor. You put your head on the ground. And I think the older I've gotten, the more I realize just how

it's you can't be in your head too much when you were literally bringing every part of your body down to the ground in submission to all of this you know it's kind of just there's a reason

people have been doing it you know like it's just there is and and I think that that's it's so beautiful you know to me I just remember being you know that's beautiful and I want to do it and I would do it that's very cool the reason that it that it interests me is because depression and anxiety is skyrocketing in our kids yeah you know it just is and you know you actually kind of made the link

earlier you said you said like well in a way you know what what some of these aspects of like of anxiety the spiraling and the and the and the revving of the mind is is maybe just it's like it is a form of prayer but it isn't as um you might have used the word aspirational you might to use the word, I forget which one, but you know, I think that's a very interesting take on it. And of course, acknowledging there's so much about like

the biological aspect of the brain that a lot of people will be quick to mention and jump on. I know, I certainly don't want to like overstate bounds. But I think it's also very you know, well documented that, you know, the word

meditation is much safer to use. Yeah, right. meditation is highly documented as changing the biological nature of the brain. Like this is out there, you know, it's real. It's like there's no... It's kind of undeniable. It's 100% undeniable. I think that, you know, look, there's...

This is what you just said really reminds me of is like, I'll say, like, I remember, you know, being a kid, of all the dangers of the internet, like, as I look back, you know, of all the things that could be pitfalls. I think for a while, I was like, man, I really... really wish I hadn't seen porn when I was a kid. I'm not too, yeah. But I have a, I've actually, I've just been thinking about this really recently. I think the more I've sat with it, the thing that I think might have been even worse for me was being invited to create an online profile at a really young age.

Because there's something about picking your screen name and your profile photo and you're about me and you're like broadcast to the whole. world that feels so strange because it's like you're forming who you are but you're kind of like marketing yourself midway oh yeah definitely and i think it's such a mind fuck because it's like you i think rush to saying who you are in order to project that out into the world and there's something i think deeply fucked up about that yeah like i just think it actually like halt you like any piece of art anything you know putting anything

out too early would be crazy right but then it's like okay I'm going to tell everyone who I am right now here are the nine photos that like and this is my personality and I used to write all this crazy stuff because I felt like I had to say something right you know and I was like why am I even like why

Rami we have a couple questions we ask every guest so we're not going to let you off the hook can you tell us about your first love and heartbreak Oh man my first love Or crush Yeah my first crush Yeah I'm trying to think who my first crush was

There was this girl I don't even remember her name I like remembered what she looked like You know and I remember she had this like blue dress And she was I guess she was in kindergarten class I just remember when we moved We were in Queens and we moved to Jersey And I was just like but what about me and her?

Like, we're going to, like, you know, like, that's an early. That's an early memory that I had. And I remember being too embarrassed to tell my parents. I remember feeling it was a major factor as to why we shouldn't move. But I couldn't say it. But I was like, guys, like, what are we talking about? There's this whole thing going on here. Like, I've been working on this.

And now we're going to go. Can't remember her name. You know, I don't know much. But there was a blue dress. I just remember. It's a very Jane Doe situation. I remember the blue dress. I remember the classroom.

And then it really fades out after that. But that was strong. That was really blue dress. Yeah. Well, after kindergarten, what were your experiences around crushes and? No, we were, it was funny because we also were all, we were right in that prime period of going from dial up into high, you know, into like faster internet or whatever. whatever. Everything was remarkably online. So I remember I had a girlfriend in sixth grade.

The biggest thing about the girlfriend at the time was that she was on my AIM profile, like, as my girlfriend. I think I saw her twice at school. Like I was too shy to talk to her at school. But it was just like, but she's my girlfriend. You know what I mean? And so like everyone knows, like it was kind of like a social thing. It was just like, but we didn't. we didn't spend any time together

I don't think we ever went anywhere I feel like that's pretty emblematic of a middle school relationship it's like you think a lot about it it's established by other people it's very important to other people oh my god you guys are dating yeah it's like a social status

but you guys rarely dude there was this one morning we walked in and it was wild news that happened the night before it all happened online where there were two couples and they switched it was like an NBA

trade it was just like boom like they're like the whole the tables have turned like they did a swap everyone agreed you know this is big news and we were we couldn't stop talking about it for months i mean it was it rocked us i mean we were just it was so wild we're like what that can happen everyone agreed it's like yeah they were all they all got like they all got in a group call and like they did it wow like yeah actually i came and i was like this is this is amazing yeah it seems pretty evolved. There's more aspect of it. If a negotiation involved seems pretty, you know, high level.

To this day, I haven't seen that work. Right. I've never seen adults pull it off. I'll tell you that. I've never seen adults pull it off. Romney, the other question we ask everyone, but we can give you like an option. We ask everyone to share an embarrassing story, but sometimes we ask comedians to share a story of like a time they bombed on stage. So I don't know if either of those is more Oh, it's like which time did I bomb on stage?

Have you ever bombed on stage? No, no, no. It's like going through the catalog. Or an embarrassing story from middle school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, whatever you prefer. Were you into comedy by that? You were kind of, right?

I love George Carlin. I would go to my uncle's room and he'd play Carlin. That was, and I would just be like, wow. because my uncle also talks like Carlin everything's a rant and it's like really just political and theories

and he kind of never he never really turns it off and I always thought it was so funny because he would just like you know I don't know he just have some like theory you know we're younger and just some really

passionate opinion about Bill Clinton or something and you're just laughing because it's just like the passion is so turned on like my family's so funny in that sense is that everyone's just so passionate

about what they're saying and it's like conflict or whatever about everyone's just like I'm right and I think from since I was a kid I was like

oh there's something really funny when someone thinks they're really right so I like I like keeping things like I don't know I can never assert myself be like I am right

like it just feels so funny to do yeah right to just be like I'm right what that's crazy you're right that's nuts but yeah

being a kid Oh man, what's the most embarrassing? Well, I used to do this thing that was really crazy actually. I had this, and I can't even, there's so many times I did it, but there's, I'll just tell you about the act of what I did. I had FOMO really bad.

I didn't want to miss out on anything. And so I would have to go to the bathroom, like I'd have to poop, but I'd be like, well, I don't want to go poop because, like, while I do it, something. cool could happen. Oh, wow. I love that.

But then I'd shit my pants. No, Robbie, no, no, no. Then I'd shit my pants. So this was a bit chronic. This happened more than one. This was chronic. I would get to the edge. And sometimes

everything would die down and then everyone would go home and then I could go poop. But then there'd be times when the hang was still going. I didn't want to miss it. So I shit my pants. But then everyone was like, yes, during the hang.

And then I'm like, okay, if we're outside, I might be able to get away with this. But if we're indoors, at a certain point, someone's like, what's that smell? Yeah. At a certain point, someone's like, what's that smell? And then I got to go home. Yeah. And it's so much worse because it's like, now I have to go all the way home. I could have just went to the bathroom.

That is so cool. And this happened more than once, Rami. There's like three times that are like really clear in my mind, which makes me think there's more. Yeah. Because if I can remember three. If I can remember, that's what I'm saying. If I can remember three, it's got to be seven, nine.

I got to be nine deep. And I think it was for years. And it probably, I couldn't tell you like the end age, but. Wow. It's got to be older than it should have been. I was subbing in kindergarten class and a kid pooped his pants. I was like subbing as a TA. So the teacher was still there.

he pooped his pants i had to help him deal with it and then he went back to the classroom i had to tell the teacher and she was she called him over and she was really stern and i was like oh no this is probably why he he pooped his pants he's like too afraid to ask to go to the bathroom she leans over and she's like this has to stop happening oh my god how many times been going on we've talked about this yeah i don't know what it is it must have been like you rami is there an adult manifestation of that? Like, do you still have that, like, fear of missing out? No.

That's actually gone. It's resolved. It's really resolved. I mean, at least socially, I wonder if I have a fear of missing out on other things, but I don't have that, like, I got to be at the hang thing. Right. Yeah. I actually, I was so happy when I met you at the basketball game.

I feel like that's when I meet people, like, that I really like, or, like, their work I've seen them because I don't I don't actually like go to parties or anything very much so I'm just like if I see someone next game is a big backstory for a lot of my relationships really yeah I'm like oh dude it's pretty you know what I just started going it's proving to be somewhat similar for me it's the best so I'm ripping the shirt today it's so good it's such a great like because I also love watching basketball with people too because there's just no there's no nepotism in basketball, it's just like dude, can you do it?

Can you play defense? Can you put the you put the ball in the basket? Yeah. It's like that, no, AI is not replacing that. It's the most beautiful thing. It's the most beautiful thing to watch. I got into it in these last two years because my stepson, he started to play, very

unexpectedly by the way. Yeah. Like in his middle school years, we were all wondering kind of, you know, what he's going to be into. none of his parents are into sports in that way he just pulled basketball out of a hat and he loves it

all the stats and so that's what our conversations are these days and I really get that like I actually there's something very interesting there to you know I grew up very much

not into a not in a... You didn't have a sport as a kid I mean I had soccer but then because my dad was a coach it turned really toxic really quick and so I actually pushed it away for a while but so the point growing up didn't have the sport thing and now

I'm like having that with my little middle school everybody's going to high school now but so cool it's fascinating it's a fascinating thing to see because I used to roll my eyes at it and maybe I think maybe because I felt excluded from it by no one for no real reason

but now I'm just really appreciating both the like there's something about watching the game it's just so present and basketball in particular because my sport was if anything's soccer. Yeah. Basketball is like, it is so fast.

And it's like chess because it's so high scoring. So you just know like you're just always chipping away. You know what I mean? There's something about it that I find really, really elegant. Stick around. We'll be right back. Fall is in full swing and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm,

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it seems so improbable that Rami would have been made. Yeah. Walk us through that process, like conceiving it, pitching it, having it greenlit. And then also you winning the Emmy is my first memory of you because you seemed totally unprepared for the win. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I really want to know what it was like when you won it. So, yeah, it's funny.

So it was the globes, but it also might as well have been like, it's cool like awards are just awards like I've you know in New York's like dude you're the guy who won the Oscar he won the Oscar and I'm just like yeah I did it it was a globe right not an Emmy or wait which one was it I forget

it doesn't even matter it actually was an Oscar was it a Peabody yeah he's a Nobel I got a Peabody I did get a Peabody he does have a Peabody you do have a Peabody that's right I have two but you don't have Pulitzer that's Mona's got the Pulitzer

it's hard to be track of coming coming you know Mona is... She talks about it a lot, the Pulitzer, too. Mona Chattabee, if anyone goes... I mean, she's a great artist that can't stop talking about her Pulitzer.

So, you see her in the street, unless you want to talk about Pulitzer's, don't talk to her. Avoid... Unless you'd like to talk about a Pulitzer. Otherwise, go to her Instagram, Mona Shadabee, great art. Pulitzer art.

We listened to our old episode with her. Yeah. Yeah. At the time, didn't have a Pulitzer. Yes, exactly. I would do a new episode. Unless you want. An hour plus about Pulitzer's.

The making of it was It was really cool. My buddy Ari Kacher He had been making Carmichael show. We'd known each other for years And I moved to L.A. I acted on a multi-cam sitcom For a few years when I first got there.

Which one? It's a thing on Nick at Night called Seed Head Run. It was with Scott Bayo and Mark Curry from hanging on Mr. Cooper. So it was like Nick at night was trying to do like a throwback sitcom thing And it was one of those things that they like made but didn't market It was and you know at the time as a young actor it was the perfect job

Because you're getting the experience But also like No pressure no pressure Yeah But what was really cool was Mark Curry Was touring doing stand up and I told him Hey I've been doing sketch comedy I've been making videos since I was you know

I've been doing all these things and right before I moved to LA I tried stand up a few times and he said really and then he asked me if I was doing a show in LA and I had something set up so he comes and watches me which I didn't think he would ever do

and then he's like cool you're going to come on the road with me you know and so I got this great experience opening for this awesome comedian and out of nowhere I was just able to like build up material and so my buddy Ari and I we had gone to like

my first ever L.A. open mic together and then, you know, I'd do this multi-cam thing. He was making a multi-cam show, the Carmichael show on NBC. So we just started batting around and let's do a multi-cam show together.

But then as I built out my hour-long stand-up and all that, I was like, oh, I think it's more of a single-cam show because I want to get into some stuff that I don't think is going to work in front of a live studio audience. And anyone who's seen the show,

it is not possible to do in front of a live studio audience. It's not even, It's not even, there's not much that could happen. So yeah, I built up, it was funny. I had this really funny mishap at the laugh factory where they put me up and two comedians who were supposed to go up after me were in the same car and they were late because they got stuck in traffic. So before I go on, they're like just run, just vamp. That's cool. And so I accidentally, you know, end up having this tape at the laugh factory of me doing like 45, 50 minutes.

Whoa. Which is this like holy grail of like, and I'm up there pulling and I'm like, here's an idea I kind of have thought of and here's like a thing and this or that, that, that. And then I end up having this tape. And so we just kind of. And it went well, I guess. Yeah, it went well. And it had a bunch of premises that ended up being all over our first season of the show. We used that tape.

We sent it to networks. We had kind of teamed up with Ravi. Nondin at 824 and we were kind of one of their first shows. It was like us in Euphoria. And so we just went out and pitched it and

at the time it was like really just right place, right time because Hulu was just in this position where they said okay we want to do original content in a real way. They had kind of messed around a bit with it but they wanted to take like a real comedy push. They had one original comedy

I'm blanking on it but it was really cool actually they just only played around with it a little bit and so we were part of their initial thing to kind of put some new comedies was us Penn 15 and I love them

and Sarah Silverman did a show as well and so we yeah we kind of got in there and it was cool it was just like this opening and the boom of the streaming at the time streamings is totally different business now

we made that show deal with them before Handmaid's Tale had even come out right? What? Wow. Yeah, this is really wild so I've been in development working with them, you know, since 2017 right? So yeah we've made three seasons

in that time you know but yeah so it was cool I mean like it was people were really receptive to it and the stand end up definitely helped and it was kind of clear like what we were getting at and and I think the thing you know that was really cool about it too was once we got into making the show we got to make the one we wanted to make it didn't feel that's amazing that's the great thing about having a small

budget uh is that they're they don't overnote you because they're like well that's actually so that's really cool to hear yeah yeah that's really cool were you unprepared at the globes or like not unprepared like you should have written a speech but like were you not expecting it that's what it seemed like watching at home, but I don't know if that's accurate. I think it was like surreal. You know, I think going in, this stuff is always so funny. You know how it is. I know exactly what it's like to be surprised by a Golden Globe win.

You're right. No, but you know how the award stuff and all the, but like, it's like you have PR people and you have like your agents and whatever and everyone's got tabs on everything and they're like, all right, like. So I kind of went into the night knowing they're like, okay, you know, you're You're the dark horse, you know? Like, you know, there's, we think it might go one of two ways. So it's kind of like that thing.

Everybody loves a dark horse. Yeah, everyone loves a dark horse. People love dark horses. So I kind of, yeah, I had an idea that maybe, right? But I think what you saw on me was probably just like overwhelming. It was gratitude. I was just like, wow, I can't believe this. And then being out there and looking out at all these people.

And I just said the first thing that was on my mind, which is I'm just like looking at Scorsese. and I just say, okay, dude, like, I know you haven't seen my show. I have, I'm positive. I'm positive. I'm actually positive. And that's where I was just like, you know what? And then I looked up and I said a few things.

I don't remember everything I said, but I said a few things. And then I looked up and there's a clock and it tells you how much time you have left. And I had like almost a minute left. But it was just, this is where being a comic was just the greatest gift in a moment like that. It was just like, just get out on the laugh. There's no need. You don't need to do the other minute. And I was just like, all right, see you, good night.

Like, let me get out of here. and, you know, it was a beautiful moment, I think, because of that. I was just, you know, I was very grateful for it. I still am very grateful for it. And it was, you know, it meant a lot to my parents, which was really cool. Yeah, it was really fun. Yeah. That's really cool.

Yeah, it was fun. I love Rami. I feel like it's a masterpiece in so many ways. And it's a show that's meant a lot to me as someone who grew up religious, growing up in a religion that was a minority religion that not many people knew about. and yeah, it's meant a lot to me. I love that show. You've rightfully so received a lot of praise

for being maybe one of the first shows to represent like a modern Muslim American experience, but then also a little bit of backlash, I think, from some Muslims about the character of Rami being flawed and maybe not the first representation that people want of their experience. And I wonder, I've also heard you say some really profound and thought-provoking things about the importance of being able to question faith and how Rami does maybe provide that space for people to question their faith. And I wonder what your response is to the critics who say that Rami is like a negative representation of a Muslim.

Yeah, I mean, he might be for you, you know, for whoever feels that way. I think what's really cool is like getting to create from the idea that there can be a bountiful amount of stories, you know, that come from people in our communities and in our tradition. And so I go in believing that. I think, you know, anytime you make something, there's like really valid critiques. So it's like there are things that have come out that are super valid. but then there are like critiques that have the weight of scarcity of like how could you do that when this is our chance or you could be the flag

or this is what we've got or everything is so bad and like so it's like all that is just that's like scarcity that's fear I've always just made the show that I want to watch you know I've made the thing that feels relevant to what I would want to see and especially what past versions of myself would have really appreciated at different points in my spiritual journey

and that the Rami character is crafted with that in mind for me and all the characters in the show sit in that and so when that hits with people they really appreciate it and they really love it but it's also like anything that I think is you know potent

or going for a certain vein when you don't like it you really don't like it you know and I think what's been fun for me is getting to just focus on the thing that I think could work. Because I think when you try to do too much or you try to do it for everybody, quality usually takes a real dip because it just stops being direct. And so what's been fun, though, because it has worked for us as a story, we've gotten to make other things, right? So we're developing this animated show.

We also got to make a show with Mahal. Hamad Amr, you know, we made Mo on Netflix. And that's the character that I think is, you know, much more in line. Like, I think the critiques you're talking about are like, oh, I want to see someone who's like, you know, fighting against the system. And I really root for them. And, you know, and I think what was really cool about doing Mo with him was getting to go in and say, okay, like, we can't. actually make that type of story too and that also

aligns with what Moe wants to say and has to say in his comedy. So I think it's just really important to kind of find the specificity to the person. So I know if I tried to do this show where it's like everyone's rooting for me and it's like, I'm just like a lovable

Muslim guy and like someone's like being mean to me at work. Like it doesn't fit who I am because I'm like you know, I'm like a little like a little like you know, mischievous. TV as shit. My mom would be like, that's not you, you know. So it's like, not that she's like thrilled with everything

I do on screen, but like, you know, and the character isn't me but it fits my sensibilities. It's the type of show I like. I like getting up to the line. I like sometimes crossing it and then walking back. I just like doing it in stand-up. And again, we take a lot of swings.

I'm very grateful that we connect on a lot of them. Some of them we miss on. But at least it's like I'm playing the thing I want to do. I'm playing in the tone I want to play in. But then it was really fun to just, like, go and make this other show, and it's like a whole other world, whole other tone. So, yeah, it's just about, like, you know, and then we're hired, like, there's so many people who had never been even near a writer's room

that are now have writing credits and have experience from working on our shows that are going to tell their stories that kind of fit, you know, from our communities. And I can't wait to see those. That's, like, that's, like, kind of my favorite part of it. Like there's all these people who got to see how it gets made. And then, you know, yeah, there's people who have worked in any of the rooms we've done that I'm like, cool, I can't wait to like come in and work for you on your thing. Like, what do you want me to do? Like, how am I going to help you on your thing?

That's really, I mean, what I admire in what you're, it's not the only thing. But it's something I really admire in what you're doing. And I'm realizing it more as you say it because it is true that like the writer's room as a construct is a place that so few people have historically had any. access to it's just really inspiring to to meet and see and hear about other people doing it like doing it and succeeding like that's really amazing you know it's so important that i mean we hear this it's become it's becoming a platitude almost but it's very true like we need to hear other voices yeah tv is massively systemic and so if you can get people into a television writer's room that's a huge achievement i think so that's cool no it's really cool

cool, and I think, you know, I've learned a lot doing it, and, you know, we'll learn a lot, you know, a lot more. But, yeah, that getting in is really, is really key. Because, you know, and you know this too, and just working on stuff, it's like, you get an opportunity and you're like, all right, well, we need to make sure it's good. Who's done it before? Right. Right. So it's like, there's a reason why people keep rehiring the same people because it's like, you know, like, we have to deliver, right? You know, and, and so there's a line of like how much you can experiment and how much you can kind of throw people who are new and green. And then also, so I think we've always tried to have this balance of like, you know,

who has never been in a writer's room and who, you know, wrote on Roseanne. You know what I mean? Like, how do we all get together here? Like, who's the guy that's like been around? You know, all right, let's see. Like, what can you offer us? You know what I mean? And then who are the people who really, you know, just have something totally left field? who are new, who just have, you know, this, the raw, you know, thing. And then, and so, so that's been really fun.

I'm intrigued by the decision to name the character, Rami, because there's got to be, you've got to know, go into it, knowing that there's going to be many people who collapse the two of you into one. So what was the thinking behind that? I mean, this is kind of what I said a moment ago of, like, learning a lot, you know, probably. What was the thinking? I wasn't thinking about that.

I was thinking about, like, plot lines, and I was like, whatever, my name. Like, it was that. It ended there. I didn't want the show to be called Rami. I found out in a press release. Wow. Because, like, someone had floated it, and then we were like, oh, it does work. We were playing with different, I didn't want it to be Rami because a lot of people say my name Rami.

And so I openly said to everybody, producers network, I was like, there's going to be a problem here, like a marketing problem if the show is called Rami. because people don't know the word, they're not going to know how to say it, like, whatever. And I was right. Yeah. It's a marketing problem. Which is fine. I'm grateful for it.

It doesn't really matter. I mean, it's like, it truly is one of those things, too, are like, getting to make it, the right people find the show. You know, I hope we've kind of put something together that, like, you could watch even five years, 10 years, 15 years from now and take something from it.

So that was always the goal in that. it doesn't need to be like the biggest thing and I think we've you know had wins that you know not even just award stuff but just even like we definitely cut through in a certain way which is really really exciting right but yeah

not a lot of thought yeah yeah yeah Rami can you spill the beans on your new project poor things tell us something scintillating something you haven't maybe shared yet oh man make sure it's juice no pressure no pressure I mean the movie is

I love your ghost you know I like organically it's not one of those things where it's like because I got to work with him suddenly

you know I was always obsessed with him I was always kind of you know hitting up my buddies from high school being like have you seen the killing of a sacred deer like you have to watch this movie it's so insane

and I remember seeing his first film dog tooth and just being like this is so deeply you know fucking weird and I love it and this film I think is it's like everything I loved about dog tooth mixed with everything I loved about the

favorite and then it's also just its own thing and so I love the tone I love how much of a tightrope walk the story is and you know it's like it's a really

feminist film like it's like the most fucked up way to talk about feminism but like I think it's really effective in doing it and I think that's really largely owed to Emma It's probably my favorite Emma Stone performance ever, and I think she's an unbelievable actor, so that says a lot.

And what she did and what she crafted is really, really cool. And getting to see her do it, and then seeing it cut into the film was really, yeah, really impressive. Yeah. So exciting. Yeah. I thought that of her, too, when we were doing UZA. And it's not, this is my favorite.

Actually, at the time, it probably would have been. That movie is so good, though. But that movie is so, no, it's so funny. And, like, you can tell from then, you're like, oh, this person has emotional access, like, on another level. Very much, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rami, I want to ask you just one more thing professionally. Yeah. You're directing now. So I know you directed on Rami. You've directed an episode of The Bear. Is that right? Can you sort of talk about what that's like for you? Yeah.

And in Rami, like, when do you choose to direct and not to direct an episode? Are there sort of, is there a strategy? I always go into a season of Rami saying, I want to direct the ones I'm not in, which ends up being. none kind of a no actually like a lot because I'll like you know look by the time we get to the third season

it's like I'm in like half the season it's like really fun I stand through it so the ones that I watched you were in I could okay yeah a lot of the ones you watch I'm in but but um I always go in with that intention but even like season two I ended up having to direct a lot of the ones I was in just by the nature of the schedule because we'll be like cross shooting and all that

but in general I really like directing when I'm not acting um but I guess I have fun doing it when I'm acting too but doing something like The Bear was really fun because I have a really great relationship with Chris Storer who made the show and we have a shorthand

but also we do things differently and so it was this really fun opportunity also because it was an episode in Copenhagen and so I was like well I gotta go do research right and so we're just like talking to someone at like Disney travel and they're like how long do you to stay. And you're like, well, I need weeks, really, to figure out

what I'm doing here. But it really was great to just go there and do that. And so yeah, for me, direct, it's so fun. It almost oddly feels like what I liked about anything artistic when I was a kid, which was just kind of having the camera

and then getting to edit it and thinking of the music that goes on it. And I really love working with actors and kind of breaking down a script just because we do it so much when we're acting and then And to get to do it on the other end is, yeah, it's just like very fun. You know, I really love photography, so that's just like a hobby of mine. And it feels like I get to bring in that when doing that too.

So that's, yeah, it's like a really fun part of the thing for me. Yeah. Well, man, I mean, we're not ending on a laugh, but. You could edit it so that we end on a laugh. Oh, no, we don't have time for that. You don't do it. No, we will. We'll take out the bit about the bear

and we'll just figure it out. We'll go back to something about masturbation and prayer and, you know, we'll figure it out. We actually didn't touch on masturbation. I believe you brought that into the conversation. I'm going to say we're both iconic masturbators in our own way. For sure.

Privately, we pray? Publicly, we're... You have to rhyme it. Find a way to rhyme it. I wish I hadn't, but I did say it. That's another one. You have control of the edit here. And I think that you could use it.

I don't. We do actually have a last question. We do have a last question. If you could go, it's a left turn now back. From iconic, back to the beginning. Yeah. Well, this might apply given the age. What if you could go back to 12-year-old Rami.

Yes. What would you say? If anything. genuinely I think I would say because any specific advice would be too tough right because as a kid you're like it's too much

I think the thing I would say is believe me being so hard on yourself is not actually that helpful like it's not actually that helpful I think I had that like Kobe mentality of like you got to be

tough on yourself, you know, like, but I feel like Kobe kept that on the court in a way, but I don't know, I can't speak for him, but maybe it just works for him, but I think that like we really, especially the immigrant mentality is like, yo, like, let's, we got to, you know, be tough on yourself, work hard, get there, you know, like everyone kind of has this, this thing. I think it's very pervasive in our culture

like, in general, like just American culture. But I think, I think that's what I would try to really get through to 12-year-old romay's like don't all this like beating up of yourself and all this like really tough harsh inner dialogue right that you think is shaping you into something better is not you know uh yeah but it's hard to tell like a 12 year old to love themselves it's very difficult thing yeah that's well it's a very like yeah it's it's hard to tell an adult to love themselves you know and actually have that be taken you know sincerely but yeah i feel like the conversation went to went to so many places that were a pleasant surprise and and i mean honestly man the best of continued success oh you too man uh this is so cool

thank you guys for having me this was really fun you can watch rami on hulu you can check him out in poor things and you can follow rami yusuf online at rami He was born in 91, I think. He's younger than Taylor Swift. That's my reference for everyone. That's crazy.