Podcrushed - [Rerun] Taylor Momsen

Episode Date: August 5, 2026

[Original air date: September 6, 2023] Our guest this week is none other than Taylor Momsen (The Pretty Reckless, Gossip Girl). She and Penn reunite for the first time since filming the season finale of Gossip Girl in 2012. Taylor shares what it was like being the youngest actor on set, her impressions of working with Penn, and why it was important for her to give her all to pursuing a career in music. Taylor lets us in on her creative muses, how she's drawn inspiration from the darkest moments of her life, and how she's learned to pick herself up after facing heartbreaking losses.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lemonada. I feel kind of the opposite. It's like it takes somebody who's really mature to be themselves around a younger person. And I don't know that I did that, but I'm just... I think you did. Oh, thanks. I think you totally did.

I mean, my memory of you is... I mean, but I don't have any bad memories of you, so that's good. Great. And we'll leave it at that. And we'll leave it at that. Welcome to Podcrushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn.

I'm Nava and I'm Sophie. And I think we could have been your middle school besties. Fighting over whether a team backstreet or in sync. Welcome to pod crush. Oh, did we get something in sync there? Was there like a little harmony? There might have been. I think so.

Yeah. Okay. We'll never be sure. Guys, today's guest is Taylor Momson. And when she came in the room, we asked her, when was last time you and Penn saw each other? And she said that it was when Penn, she said it was when we filmed that uncomfortable wedding finale scene between you and Blake. And I was like, whoa, she said it.

But then I was wondering, I don't know if you were going to talk about this. She said what she said. What was it like to film a wedding scene with an ex? Was that weird? I'm still processing it. No. No, you know what's funny, I don't really know what, in terms of it being awkward, I mean, like, I don't, I sure I don't think it was awkward for anybody.

Like, I think, yeah, I mean, so from my memory, I'm pretty sure we were exes for nearly half of the. the entire run of the series, you know? That's, it's like, it lasted for nearly six years, and I don't think we were together longer than two, something like that. So, yeah, I mean, we went through, you know, it was, it was, actually, we always were very professional, we always, we had to do all kinds of nutso stuff. Like, you know, like, you know, like, getting, having a, having a fake marriage ready,

and there was, like, I don't even think, in my memory, there was not one, bit of strangeness, you know? I mean, it was like, it wasn't even a thing. Again, because, like, you know, everything in that show was about relationships, like, of some form. And so I feel like all of us had been in every configuration

imaginable. That's true. You know what I mean? And an every person on the show. And so literally the idea that there was just this sort of, and, you know, a lot of, the finale in a lot of ways felt,

a little bit to me, like after such a long time, it felt it was almost an afterthought, you know, it was like, it was like revealed that I'm Gossip Girl and Dan and Serena get married. And then you knew it was all over. And one of those,

Chuck and Blair, didn't they get married? But not in the finale. They got married before the finale. They got married before it. And then they had like a kid. There was a reveal there. But actually Taylor came back.

That was a pretty significant thing that Jenny came back for the finale. Now I remember, yes. That's why it was significant for her because she had left the show. Yeah. See, I'm not even like... That's probably what she meant when she said that awkward wedding scene.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably true because she came back and she was like, oh, this is happening. Yeah. Maybe even the last time she was on set, we might have been together. So that might be... Yeah, that's true. So for her, she's like these poor Penn and Blake having to soldier through. She would just like go ahead into the sand and hear anything that happened between you. Yeah.

She's like, that's a funny thought. Yeah. So yeah, let's get to it. I mean, I think at this point, and our guest needs no introduction, very little. But for those who don't know, Taylor Momson, our guest today, she is a lead singer of the band The Pretty Reckless. They have the most number one singles of any female-led band on the rock charts,

which is pretty huge. Amazing. They've been going for half of Taylor's life. Taylor is a tried and true musician. That is what she does and who she is. is. However, you also may know her. Pretty similarly iconic as Jenny Humphrey. And

gossip girl. I played Dan Humphrey, her brother. That's how we know each other. That's how we got her. On the show. She also was in, you know, a little movie directed by Ron Howard and starred Jim Carrey Call the Grinch who stole Christmas and she played Cindy Lou Who. You know, it's another icon from your childhood. You probably forgot about that one because the other two were so big. We've got Taylor Momsden. Stick around.

Taylor, how long has it been since you saw Penn? We were just trying to figure that out. I think it's been at least 10 years. Wow. I think the, it was probably the gospel finale. It was probably the last time we saw each other. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah.

I felt like a fan girl. Like, it was exciting to see you guys together again. And I didn't even know that I would feel that way. But I really did. I was like, oh my God. Yeah, it was really sweet. That's awesome. I'm excited we're doing this.

Throwback. Yeah. Big brother. I was. That's surreal. It's so sweet. I watched a little. TikTok that you posted

this last Thanksgiving where we're all, you know, the epic iconic never-ending holiday scenes where everybody's around a table and eating. Yes. And first of all, it's rare that I see Gossip Girl clips anyway,

apart from maybe a meme. Sure. But that was, I don't know, it really took me back. It really took me back. It feels like a different, I mean, couldn't be further away. Like 10 lifetimes ago at this point. Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, you got into acting when you were essentially a baby, like two and three years old, right? Yep. But by the time you were six, you were already, I mean, you were starring in like this iconic movie with an iconic actor, playing an iconic role. I mean, what was that like? Like, you know, like, there's levels to it. There is. And for people who don't know, maybe you can just say, like, what the movie is.

No, we're not going to, we're not going to share that. We're not going to share it. If you don't know. An iconic movie with an iconic actor. It falls around every Christmas. It was interesting. Hold on. We do have to say it.

It's the Grinch. Nova was not lying. It's how the Grinch told Christmas with Jim Carrey, directed by Ron Howard. I played Little Cindy Lou Who. And it was, honestly, it was great. I mean, it's, it's, you probably know this because you started so young,

but it's weird to think back on your life as a kid in films and stuff and try to remember what you actually remember and what you remember because you've seen it. Oh, completely. So my memories are a little blurred, I think, from that experience. But the thing that I remember the most about it, like the thing that kind of I took with me from that

was that was my first time in a recording studio was during The Grinch. Because little Cindy Lou Who sings a song in the movie. That's very interesting. I really like that. Where Are You Christmas? And so it was my first time in a recording studio with The Amazing James Horn.

It was the first time I ever put headphones on and heard myself through a microphone. And it was essentially my first music video when I was five. And so, and that moment was really as crazy as it might sound, even though I was so young, it was really important to me. Like it was a, I remembered it, I fell in love with it. And it was where I started to, I was already kind of writing songs even though I was so young. Wow.

And that's where I went, oh, I want to make music. Like, I want to make records. And this is, this experience. is awesome. And there's actually some really great photos like side by sides of me sitting at the console with James Horner with my head down and my arms on the console. Already a critic.

There's a photo of me like a, you know, I don't know eight years ago or whatever sitting there with our producer Kato in the exact same position, like not posed or anything and fans put those side by side and I just thought that was quite telling of you know. As much as you grow up you still are who you are as a kid. Where were you living at the time?

I was living well I was born in St. Louis so that's where my family and I grew up and still had a house there but we moved into the Oak Woods in Los Angeles and when we actually shot the film. I don't know if I ever knew that but you know I lived very close to the Oak Woods

when I was like 12 to 20. Yeah. It's a scene. Oh yeah. The Oak Woods. Do you have any memories of Jim Carrey? I mean, a ton. He was, first of all he was so nice. That's what I remember.

He was very, very nice. very methodical, very, like, I didn't quite understand what an artist was at that age, but if I had any inkling of what it was, it was that guy. Just the way he carried himself and the way he full on just went into that character was intense and insane. And, I mean, like, what he did with that, with The Grinch was ridiculous. I mean, he's kind of insane in everything. He really is. Like, he really just embodies what he's doing.

But super nice. I remember he tried to, he loved a candy bar called The Crunchy from Canada. Okay. I don't know why that's funny. Well, it's going somewhere. And so, and I had ever heard of this candy bar. And he would have them on set, and he was always wanted another one, wanted another one, and they ran out of him.

And for a rat present, I was like, I'm going to get him a giant box of crunchies. This is going to be my present to Jim Carrey. But I couldn't remember the name of the candy bar. And so I had to ask over and over and over what the name of this candy bar was. So I think he knew it was coming, but it was... But that was my wrap present to Jim Carrey. It was a ton of crunchies.

That's very sweet. That's so cute. Taylor, I'm going to pivot. I heard you say in an interview that you collect dolls from all around the world. And I was wondering, when did that start? And is there a doll that you connect the most with your childhood that somehow is like emblematic of that?

That's a good question. I did collect dolls, did being the keyword, because now when you've toured the world multiple times, that collection got way too large from my tiny little New York apartment. They're now all in storage. But no, it was a cool little.

It started when my very first tour, I wanted to pick up something in every city I went to. I just thought that would be cool. And I started with key cards to hotels and then that slowly or very quickly realized that that was a bad idea and that you would have an endless amount of key cards to hotels on tour. And they all kind of look the same.

And they all kind of look the same. I was thinking I could make some kind of collage or do something cool with them. So that quickly pivoted to dolls just because they have personality, I think. They all have like, you know, a little Chinese doll from China has this character to it that is very memorable of where we were. And so that lasted for about a year, I would say, maybe a little less until it just got. And you already, and you kind of covered the world more or less with it. Wow. So you were like really good touring. I've got Amsterdam. I've got China. I've got Japan. I've got Australia. I've got England, Paris, Spain.

Brazil. I've got one from everywhere. Yeah, wow. How old were you at that point when you were touring like that much? Well, we started, our first real tour was when I was 16. We went on Warped Tour for the summer. and then shortly after I left the show after I left Gossip Girl we were just kind of on tour and on stop so 17 on

18 on like going to hell the record cycle was we toured for about two and a half years straight so that was a long one but that's good you know that's how it goes

that's typical and it's great this is the best job in the world it is yeah yeah I mean the little taste I had of it and just I mean I just know that when you love it

and when you're doing it with people you love, like, it's an incredible gift. It's incredible gift. It really is. People always ask, like, you know, oh, it must be, that's such a hard job. And it's like, well, like, how do you play every night? I know, playing is great. Playing is the best job in the world.

Like, that's never a job. That's what I look forward to. The travel. Yeah, that's. The lack of sleep. Sound checks. I love sound checks. Sound checks are my favorite part of the entire.

I would sound check forever if I could. That's my favorite part. Because Soundcheck is getting to play and jam and be ultimately free with great sound without the pressure of a show. Yeah, right. So Soundcheck's my favorite part of the day. I like that perspective. Another brilliant reframing. I want to hear a little bit about what you were like at sort of 12, 13, like that middle school age.

If we would have met you then, how would you have described yourself to us? shy. I was very shy. Yeah, that definitely. Not that you remember. I was very shy. Still kind of am, which is most people don't expect that, I guess.

I was always very introverted, and then my extroverted self was taught, I guess. I kind of taught myself how to be an extrovert. But I'm most comfortable when I'm like alone in my part. bit with the guitar. Like I'm socially very awkward. So yeah, shy. And I moved around a lot when I was young. So I never was in kind of one school for too long. So I had making friends and that kind of

thing was always a bit of a challenge for me. So I was very introverted, I guess, introverted and kind of shy. Who did you admire? Was there anyone that you sort of felt like you wanted to be like them artistically or that inspired you? Well, when I was nine, I believe I was nine, my dad talked me to see the white stripes, and that was a pinnacle changing moment for me where I grew up listening to,

my dad was awesome because I grew up listening to his rock record collection, and like every Saturday, when I was at home, when I wasn't filming or working, every Saturday or Sunday, he would have like rock history lesson, essentially, where we'd go to the basement and he would play me pick a vinyl, whether it's Bob Dylan or Joni Mitchell or the Stones or the Beatles or

David Bowie was the mainstay in the house, whoever it was, and play the record from front to back and explain to me why this was great. And then he would take that and make mixtapes out of it. And that's kind of where I got my musical knowledge. And he then took that and translated it into live shows for me. And the White Stripes was the first, like, real rock show I had seen. And he took me right into the pit, full on mosh pit, everything. And it blew my mind. Like, I just sat there in awe that two people could make that much noise. And so it was like there's a couple turning points in my life that I think have really impacted to where I am,

impacted me to get me to where I am now. And that was a recording studio when I was five and with the Grinch. And then seeing the white stripes when I was like nine because it was, it went from I want to make records to I want to play live. And that was kind of where I got the bug for that. So I admired great artists. And then my musical taste kind of just grew from there was the Beatles and the White Stripes and Bob Dylan and The Who and Pink Floyd.

And then when I got into like early teens, I discovered the 90s. And Soundgarden was the first band that I really fell in love with there and that kind of changed my whole world as Soundgarden. I want to ask just because you told us that story about your dad. Tell us about your family life.

What was that like? What was your family into? How were those relationships? My family. I mean, it was different. My mom and I, my mom, my sister and I traveled a lot because I started working so young. So my dad would stay. He had a full-time job and so he would stay home and work. And my mom and my sister and I would go wherever we needed to go. A lot in the beginning. A lot of that was Los Angeles and New York, obviously. Like when I was three, probably starting two, three, four, before the Grinch. So yeah, two, three, four. We would spend some. summers in New York. So I actually spent a lot of my childhood in New York and fell in love with Manhattan at a very early age because I'd come up to do auditions for commercials and things in the summer months. And then moved to California for a little bit when we did the Grinch and then moved back to St. Louis and then moved to Texas for a while. But not permanently.

Like my father always had the house and so that was the whole base. Wasn't that in Maryland? It was St. Louis until I was about 10. Oh, my bad. And then we moved to Maryland because my dad. switched jobs. I went to school properly for about a year in Maryland and then got uprooted for Gasparall and moved

to New York. Okay, so that year of schooling was like right before? It was right before. All that. Yeah. Okay. Which was... Like right before middle school? Right. And it was during middle school. Okay. Like, so your first year? So, yeah, like six, seventh grade. Which was interesting, because I was probably the first time in a long time

that I'd been in a proper school system. Sounds like almost kind of ever, because you were so young before. Yeah, I was so young before. And was never there for full years. Like I would go to a school for a couple months and then leave to go work and then come back. You know, making friends was always challenging for me

because I was, first of all, the Grinch, if you want to go back to the Grinch, the Grinch changed my life in a multitude of ways, one of them being I was made fun of relentlessly. So every time I would start a new school or go somewhere else, I don't even think the kids knew my name. I was just Grinch Girl. Oh.

So it's Grinch Girl, Grinch Girl, Grinch Girl. Not even Cindy Lou Who. Oh, no, not even character name, just Grinch Girl. And so that was a, that was just, I mean, I got used to it, but it was alienating. That's, yeah. And so, it's like so cruel. It's always out of jealousy, I think, in those circumstances, but it's so cruel. It's like hard to be on the receiving end of that, you know?

No, no, that's because those young children are very confidently, very confident in who they are, and they're just seeing reality. Oh, yeah. I'm just saying that, like, even I was Grinch, the issue. It was also Taylor, though. So that was always fun, the fun, fun times. But when I got to middle school, that was kind of the first year. I don't remember exactly what year it was, but it was a good full year where I was in school and I had the opportunity to try to kind of actually make friends.

And I put a band together. It was my first band, a middle school band, garage band. We never could settle on a name, but we would jam after school and that was always fun. Were you singing that or were you playing stuff too? Singing, playing guitar, writing. And then so as soon as that kind of, I've kind of started to find my little groove in school as a normal kid, Gossip Girl came about, and I got uprooted to New York,

and then band fell apart. You know, we were going to be huge as a real bummer. And had to kind of restart it all again in New York, which didn't take me that long way. No, I mean, in the end, even though Gossip Girl might seem to others or perhaps, probably even to yourself, like this major moment. I mean, the truth is, it sounds like you really only took, like,

three or four years off, quote unquote. Yeah. Well, it took a, I mean, and not even off. Yeah, not off, but. I was recording and writing and stuff, but just not to put out to the world. And it took a minute to find the right band members, you know, because it wasn't something where I wanted to just audition people and hire a band. Like, I really, I think part of because, part of the reason was because I've,

I traveled so much as a kid. And like I was saying, I had a hard time making friends. And I really wanted to make my own kind of makeshift family. Like, I wanted to be in a band. I wanted to be a part of something. And not do it by myself. Like, I wanted to be the Beatles.

I don't want to be Elvis. Like, who wants to do this alone? Right. I wanted to share it with people. And so it took a while to find the right guys. But it came about really organically. And now it's about to go make our fifth record. And we're still doing it.

So it worked out. It seems. like you were, like you said, you had kind of found your groove. You had started a band in middle school. You were in school. It was your first opportunity to really make friends with your peers. And then you got Gossip Girl. Was there any part of you when you got it that felt like, actually, I don't want to do this?

Oh, yeah. I want to stay. Oh, yeah. So what ended up happening? Well, I don't know how much I should share on this show. I was, I was convinced. of it, let's put it that way. I was larger powers than me

came down and this is a great opportunity. God came down here. This is a great opportunity. You gotta do it, kid. I really think this one might be a hit. No, honestly, the big selling point to me for the show of convincing me to move and wanting to leave school and everything was, A, you're not, it's New York, so you're not that far from your friends, so you'll get to see them,

which of course was not true. I didn't see them ever again. But it was that aspect. But it was also New York. I loved New York. And so as you get to move to New York, and the show's very fashion-oriented, and it has a lot of things and a lot of elements of things

that you're interested in as a real person. And you'll have a good time. And so that was that was that. That's actually surprisingly similar to mine, except minus the things that I thought I would be interested in. But New York was the Manhattan was it. Well, thinking, yeah, like seeing it as an opportunity and, yeah, that's just interesting to hear. And also, I think not knowing, I mean, you have to feel this too, not knowing what a phenomenon it was going to become.

Like, it was just another, to me, especially at that age, it was just another job. Like, I always went and worked and then I would come home and then I'd go and work and come home. And I'd never been on a television show properly before where it was like a full-time gig. Yeah, for me, I mean So I don't think I realized how much of a commitment it was So when they were like, you can come back and see your friends And you can go to school sometimes And you know, take your work with you and tutor on set

And then you'll come back I didn't realize that that was a pipe dream That was never going to happen Yeah, I don't think What's funny here is that the pipe dream is that it wouldn't be that successful I just want to point that out That's so interesting too Because that is always the that is a strange like

What's the guy? a duality when you're trying to make something as an artist, whether as an actor, maybe even as a musician, I think it's like the hope is, of course, always that it does very well. Because technically speaking, that would say, oh, I guess I've made something, I'm a part of something that's done well, and that must mean it's good, and that I'm got something to offer. But then at the same time, you can't expect that to happen. So you're thinking about how much you can just continue on with life as you know it. But then if it really does hit, it's going to change everything.

Yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of this show, it points different guests. You know, there's an opportunity for me to reflect on that time and how unusual mine was. But I mean, yours was, we were in the same world. But, I mean, I definitely did not go through, you know, like that unique experience that you were going through. It's different. Yeah. It was different.

You know, and I also, I was, you know, kind of going to the awkward shy thing. Like I was so much younger than all of you. So much. And you were 13, right? I was 12 in the pilot 13 when the show started, yeah. Were you the youngest person on set or was the Eric? Were you guys the same age? He's older than me.

He was actually great. When I moved to New York, Connor and I became friends and he kind of took me under his wing because I was starting high school by the time the show was kicked up. And like anyone, I wanted to go to an actual school to meet people and make friends. That didn't last very long. But Connor was like, come to my school. I'll introduce you to all my friends. He was a senior.

I was a freshman. And so I kind of fell into his click of friends for a minute there. But I ended up leaving that school and just homeschooling because it was too difficult. But yeah, no, I think it was, again, not to keep going back to it, but that's where music became such a solace for me. Like, thinking back on my life, it was this place that I, I could just be, I guess, like writing songs and emoting how I felt because I was by myself a lot. Like I never, I didn't have my own click.

Like I didn't fit in with you guys. I didn't fit in with Conner's friends. I was younger than them. I was the new girl. I was Grinch girl. I was whatever. Like I was always kind of in this weird isolated world, partially of my own creating probably. But it's where music kind of became this solace for me where I could, um,

I don't know, find myself or express myself and feel good about myself. Oh, you're a musician. Yeah. I mean, I actually think, like, in a way, even though I already knew this about you, I think even hearing it is sort of like both with perspective and time, but also just hearing it right from you and how you've been able to reflect on it. I mean, you just essentially have always been a musician and you never really stopped, and that's always been what drives you.

And so I think this perception that anyone might have of the fact that you were like an actress turn musician, It's really not the case. No. It doesn't sound like that at all. No, it wasn't. It was a childhood thing that, you know, I got put into. It's two years old. I wasn't making my own choices then.

And literally, as soon as I got to an age where I could make my own decision, it was like a click. I don't know exactly what happened, but it's like I woke up one morning and went, wait a second. I don't have to do this. I don't have to do this other job. I can just play in my band and I can tour and write songs.

I can, I don't. That's all, I can just do that. Granted, a little more complicated to get out of a television show than that. But the answer was yes. Like, you can just do that. I have the ability to create my life how I want to create it and live my life, how I want to live it. And that was a, I don't know exactly what made that click, but it did one moment. And it was like a light bulb went off, and I uprooted it and changed my whole life kind of overnight.

They went, well, we can't let you out of your deal, but we can write you out of the show. so you can go on tour. You can't act in anything else. And I went, that's fine. That's not what I'm trying to do. I can't want. Yeah, I can't, exactly. But if you're not in the episode,

if we don't write you in the episode, you're not in the episode. Right. And so that's, they really allowed me to follow my dream. That's beautiful. And so I'm forever grateful and thankful to them for that. Stick around. We'll be right back. Okay, I definitely want to talk about your career as a musician.

And it's obviously like it's your main thing. But I want to just ask a couple of gossip girl questions if that's okay. I'll leave for this. You want to go? Well, actually, the first question is for both of you. What's your first memory of each other on set? And what did you think of one another? Oh, that's a really good question.

Do you even know? No. I don't. I don't either. I feel like we've asked Penn this question, like anytime a castmate comes on and he's always like, hmm, what was it? Well, it was the first memory. It's not like I don't have memories or. Well, share an early memory of Taylor.

It's just... I mean, I just remember our scenes being really nice because there was an actual family vibe. And you really held up the, like... There's just a... I mean, especially as a father now. I mean, I have a 14-year-old. Congratulations, by the way.

14-year-old and a 2-and-a-half-year-old, nearly three. And so, like, your presence brought what I maybe get now as a 5. bother a little bit, just like a degree of it, which is like when you bring in people, when you bring in children, it just does something very positive, I think, to a space. And a lot of times in professions, people don't feel that way. They're like, ah, these kids, you know, it's like, now we can't speak the way we want to speak, everything is kind of dumbed down. But I feel kind of the opposite. It's like, it takes somebody who's really mature to an honest, you know, to like,

to be themselves around a younger person and I don't know that I did that but I'm just I just I think you did I think you totally did I mean my memory of you is I mean but I don't have any bad memories of you so that's good

great and we'll leave it at that and we'll leave it at that no I always had fun filming our scenes together especially in the beginning we worked a lot like we worked a lot together yeah actually but you know

I mean I'm kind of I'm almost like by the end we really didn't work together No. At all. No. You're always doing crazy. Our storyline. I was off being a drug dealer and whatever else they were writing in.

You were a drug dealer? I think so. I never actually watched the show and maybe fans are going to yell at me about this, but I'm pretty sure they had me dealing drugs at one point. That sounds kind of familiar. Sophie, can you corroborate this? I don't remember if you were a drug dealer. There's something with drugs sewn into a jacket.

Yes. So you're a mule. A mule. Yes, actually. You were a mule for somebody else. You had a friend. Was it Kara Delavit? Not Kara.

Willa Holland. Oh, that's right. Okay. Yeah, you had a friend who kind of used you as a meal. Oh, Jenny Humphrey. Yeah, she burned bright like a meteor. You know, you bleach your hair or some dark eye makeup. Suddenly you're regular.

Taylor, I think we've actually kind of talked about this indirectly, but your character, Jenny Humphrey, went through a transformation that kind of mirrored. She became more and more like you. And I just wanted to do. to know, because that doesn't always happen. Did you lobby for that? Why was that important to you? Sort of why did Jenny go through that transformation?

And was it like you or was it more? I mean, I don't, you know, I mean, I'm just curious. Well, style-wise, it definitely started to transition a little bit more to my own personal taste. Which I think Eric Damon did that with a lot of the characters. Like, he would infuse your own kind of personality into the wardrobe a little bit. I mean, maybe. I think for the women at least, I don't know about the men. Yeah, I think, like, yeah.

I think Blake certainly did a lot of that. Layton had a hand in that, although Blair is so... I'm sure Layton doesn't ever want to wear a head. I don't think anyone here wants to wear a headband ever again. I don't know. My hair's getting pretty long. You could pull on. He's about to enter his headband era.

But I mean, the style aspect of... I think part of it was just... I don't know if I have the timeline right, but I cut and bleached my hair at some point and didn't exactly tell anyone. Oh, yeah. And so that... You got to tell everybody.

Kind of... Yeah. For those who don't know. Yes. You got to... Your appearances managed. It was... We were on hiatus or whatever.

Right or something. We weren't filming for a while and I changed my hair. And so then we came... When we came back, they're like, well, we got to write this in now. It was always weird for me being young and suddenly kind of overnight being tabloid famous, which is a different kind of famous. Yeah, it is. Where suddenly they're out.

It's... paparazzi's outside your house and they're following you and they're following me taking my sister to school and like just weird you know it was weird um and they would photograph me on set like as you as everyone on set because we've filmed in the streets of new york as my character and put it in the tabloids as taylor mopson right and say taylor mopson's wearing this and taylor monsons blah blah blah and that started to really bug me because my identity was getting kind of taken over i guess in a way where like people had this perception of me that wasn't me and so I became very like hyper aware of how I carried myself, I guess.

And so when I, as I started to get older, I think Eric understood that. And so he started to go, okay, well, we'll dress Jenny a little bit more like you. We'll still keep the headband because that makes it Jenny. But we'll add the fish nuts and we'll darken the eye makeup. And we'll make it a little bit more tailorized to kind of blend the two. Tailored. Tailored. so to kind of blend the two

and I think it kept the character organic because as I was growing and changing they wanted the character to kind of reflect that too because I think that's... Totally, yeah. I was just thinking though that that might... That's kind of like murky water because if you're already feeling like

your identity is sort of being collapsed into this character that you're playing and then they make the character more like... Yeah, it was reflecting on it, it was murky water at the time I was sitting there going well at least I don't hate this outfit so like that's as far as I was thinking

I was going well I would wear this no of course and I think when you're on television playing a character it's so different from when you're playing a role in a film because your identities aren't collapsed in the same way and it doesn't last as long and you aren't constantly photographed and confused for being this person because

yeah I mean I think all of us we were always just sort of like struggling with that because we were all young and you were just extremely. Oh no, but you guys were all early 20s. Well, I mean, I was 20 when we shot the pilot. Yeah. You know.

And yeah, I mean, we were all struggling with like being mistaken for this person. And none of us, I think, had the maturity to be able to, I don't know, just not take it personally and to know that it technically doesn't have anything to do with you. Yeah. It's just so much easier said than done. Yeah. like in a relationship like yeah try not to get angry with your partner go ahead okay yeah good luck good luck with that exactly that's a good way to put it we have a couple of questions that we ask every guest that are middle school specific and you didn't go to so much of middle school so you can kind of choose

I guess it's the age range for you from 12 to 15 can you tell us a little bit about your first love first crush and your first heartbreak what you remember about that oh gosh um Okay, well, all right, I got one story. It's kind of silly. When I was, oh, this actually involves you. When you did a show before Gossip Girl, I don't remember the name of it. Bedford Diaries? Bedford Diaries.

And you were at the Upfronts. Yeah. I was also at the up front. For what? I was doing a show called Misconceptions. And this was middle school, I was probably 11. Okay. And so we met, strangely, very briefly at that thing.

but who also was there was I had a huge crush like my first childhood crush was on Jared Padelecki from Supernatural from Supernatural and Gilmore Girls which I was obsessed with at the time I forgot it was a part of that yeah

and he was there and he was on the red carpet and I was so excited I had never been so starstruck in my life and I went up and I was like he's gonna fall in love with me I'm in love with him how can he not fall in love with me and I went up to him and said hi and he was so tall and I had to look way up.

You're quite tall. And I'm quite tall. I was tall then too, but he was really tall. And he didn't love me back. He was nice, but he didn't love me back. So that was my first love, my first heartbreak, all in one foul swoop. I then decided from that moment forward that I was only going to wear heels all the time. Really?

Because if I had only been taller, Jared would have loved me. And then weirdly to full circle that whole thing, then years later on Supernatural, which I love that show. Our song Make Me Want to Die is actually played in the show. And I was like, well, maybe he'll love me now. Maybe he'll love me now. I don't know. There's first love, first heartbreak, 11 years old.

That's it. Jared Padalecki. Wow. The other question we ask everyone is an embarrassing story. Like any kind of, anything you remember, like it could have been on set, could have been when you were in middle school, a moment. Other than being shot down by Jared Panaheke. That was embarrassing.

Other than that. Okay, you want embarrassing. I want to get real with it. Here's embarrassing. I'm going a little above the age bracket. I'm 16. That's fine. But 16, I'm on Warp Tour.

It's our first tour. And we're playing a show, and it's great. And I'm wearing a little dress, you know, as I did. And one of the photographers decides to get down on his knees and shoot up my dress. No. And I happened to be on my period at the time. Oh, no. And my tampon string was hanging out of my underwear.

Oh, and this was. And this was plastered on the internet. On the homepage of Perez Hilton. It went viral before viral was a thing. I mean, why am I saying no? It's clearly true. And you want to talk about embarrassing? That's not even embarrassing.

Taylor Monson's tampon string. That's awful. That just feels like it should be illegal. Yeah, that should be illegal criminal. That was embarrassing. So there's one for the books. And also how humiliating for the guy who did it. What?

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you're a war veteran. almost. Tori does that to you. There's something to, I mean, I don't know, just like, again, because I can relate to so much of what you're saying, but I did not go through it

at the same age as you. And in that sense, like, man, good on you. I don't know. The good news is nothing really phases me now. Right. Yeah, I've prepared me well. I grew up really fast, I think.

Which is great for everybody. It's great for everyone. Taylor, let's talk about the pretty reckless. Tell us about the name. It's such a great name. What inspired it. When you found your band members, how did you know they were the ones? Like, talk us through that whole process. Okay. Well, the name. Originally, it was supposed to be the reckless, which just sounded cool. And I wanted the name because of the Beatles. And I liked the reckless, but we had some trademarking issues, so we were told to add a word. It would be temporary. I thought pretty

sounded better than moderately reckless. Little did I know, you know, 15 years later, we'd still be the Pretty Reckless. So it is what it is. You know, band names are just band names. It's the music that makes them. Wait, so, Taylor, so pretty is for, like, as is an amount, I've always thought of it as, like, beautiful. Oh, well, that works too. You know what?

It's how everyone you want to take it. Pretty Reckles. Like, we're pretty and we're reckless. It's a double entendre. Well, I thought everyone would abbreviate it to the reckless, like, you know, Ledz Up, Ledz up, Ledz, Leads Upland. The Pretty Reckless, the Reckless, and said it got abbreviated. TPR. Right.

Or pretty reckless instead of the... Which I should have seen that coming. It's actually pretty obvious. Thank you. It's a great name. It's technically more clever than the Beatles because that... Did you know that the A and... He's never going to get over this.

Yeah. Like Beatles is in a beat? Yes. You knew that? Yeah. Okay, so I just found this out along with Sean Hayes and a lot of other people online. Okay. Yeah.

So anyway, there's that. And it was very disappointing to him. It's such a bad pun? It is proof that the music is what makes the band name. Yes, it is. Because if I first heard about that and knew that it was like wordplay, I would be like, blimp.

Lame. And then there's some band names that are just awesome. Like Soundgarden is just an awesome name. That is a great name. Awesome name. That just wins. Do you think Radiohead is it? Because I think it's a bad name that is made brilliant by the music.

I don't hate the name Radiohead. But I like it. I've never actually really given it much thought. Sophie, yeah, I like you. it. I also think it's not bad. Why don't you like it? No, it's not that I don't like it. It's not that I don't like it. I think with a different kind of music, it would sound really corny. Oh, sure. Like radio head. It's just, I don't know.

Well, any band with bad music, any band name suddenly becomes really bad. Taylor, what do you think of the band name, Mother? It's so bad. As long as there's an X in it, then it's all right. No, I mean, guys, trust me, I apply it to myself. Once we named ourselves, I was like, this is a terrible idea. First of all, it's hard to name a band,

especially now because everyone has a name now with the internet too. So to try to find something that's actually trademarkable is nearly impossible. That's why we had to put that friggin' X in there. Now you've got bands that have full sentences as their band name. Right. And no vowel. And no vowels. So anyway, that's the name.

Okay. Taylor, is it true that you're... Wait, not to interrupt you. Now I want to know where mother came from. How did you guys get back? I don't Okay, so it really felt like I mean at the time I was

I was undergoing a spiritual transformation and I just felt like mother had the most implications of any word I could think of. All right. You know, for everybody, for me I was having a personal

reconciliation with my own mother. I feel like at the time my relationship to spirituality was that of like closest to the earth and all that it represents. You know, mother is like a thing that births as a being that births. I think,

oh no, it's not true, no. I hadn't met my now wife who was already a mother because my 14-year-old is my stepson. But then once I met her and our relationship really started, I thought, oh, that's also interesting that I'm in a band called mother and it's even happening here.

Yeah, for what it's worth then. So you didn't think about it at all. Definitely not, D. I love the name mother. It's the X that is very, it's like, it puts it in a time. No, it just puts it in. It makes it a hipster band. Yeah, it makes it a hipster band from about when it was.

What was it 2014 or something? It's just like every, yeah. I know, trust me. I really didn't want to have to do it, but we had to do it. And it also has the, yeah, exactly. It has the capital letters, which again, like, and we really tried. We really, yeah. So, you know.

anyway enough about me and my mother I like it Taylor you were going to tell us about how you picked your band members

and then I think Sophie had a question okay how I picked the band when I was 14 let's just go 13 14

I was living in New York I was writing songs I was working with different producers trying to make my songs in my free time and

nothing was really clicking. This is kind of a long story, so to make the long story short, met a lot of people, finally met this guy named Cato, Cato Candoala. And he came with this guy named Ben, who was a guitar player in a band at the time.

And the three of us met, and we just immediately hit it off in this kind of I've known you my whole life, one of those kismet, otherworldly ways where we just immediately bonded about music, We bonded about life.

We had the same way of thinking. We had the same goals. We had the same, I don't know, everything. The same kind of mentality. And Ben was in a band with Mark and Jamie at the time. And I heard their band and I essentially went, well, that. That's you should be my band. Like we should be in a band together.

And they went, no way. And I went, whoa, you haven't heard my stuff yet. And I played them some songs. And basically, that's the very long story short. We started working together and we started playing together, and it just worked and it just gelled, and that's kind of how it all formed. It's hard to find partners in anything in life, you know.

And especially, I think musical partners, creative partners, is incredibly challenging because you have to, there's so many things that have to align to have that work and have that be a lifelong relationship, you know. That's so true. And I just feel very fortunate that I found that. It was such a shot in the dark and so random and completely lucky. And it just fucking worked.

Sorry, I didn't know if we can. That's fine. Okay. And now you've been together for half your life. Is that right? Half my life. Yeah. Started the band when I was 14.

Wow. Made the first record when I was 15. Came out when I was 16. On tour at 16 cents. And now I'm turning 30, yeah. That's quite rare for a band to stay together for so long. And like my husband's in a band. They've been in a band for eight years,

and they've nearly broken up at least one. I wonder what tips you have that you've garnered over the years about creative collaboration. I mean, I think it comes back to we all have the same goal. Like we all want to be great and we want to, be better than we were before. Like we're always trying to to push ourselves to be better than

the last time. Ben and I writing together, we just have a a flow or a thing that just works. And it's incredibly, I keep saying lucky because it just is. It's incredibly lucky. Like it's a,

to find a musical partner like that where it just not everything you do is great, but you know when it's not and you know when it is and that I think that that I don't know and we just all like each other I think that the end of the day I think we all like making music together

we all like playing together and we all like hanging out and I think that that's there's your magic formula like we're never sick of each other so you're saying it's magic it's magic it's that magical musical magic thing did you guys ever go through

like a particularly tough time though you know and I'm kind of curious what got you it. Well, I mean, not to completely shift gears here, but if you want to talk tough, I mean, recent,

20, not that long ago, Cato, who produced all our albums, who's, you know, I met him and I met Ben at the same time. He died in a motorcycle accident very suddenly. I'm so sorry. Thank you. And so that that changed

everything. That was an incredibly hard time. It's changed my life in more ways than I can count. I don't want to go too far into it, but it took me very down. I fell into a very dark hole of depression and substance abuse and everything that comes with death and loss and trauma and not being prepared or know how to cope with it or deal with it. I essentially quit everything. I essentially stopped making music. I couldn't listen to music. Everything bummed me out, for lack of a better term.

It's dark, got very dark there for a while. And I said this a lot. And as cliche as it may sound, it was music that pulled me out of that hole, even though it took a while to come around to it. Like making music? Making music. There was a point where, I shut myself off from the world in this very dramatic way.

I didn't talk to anyone. I didn't want to see anyone. I fell apart. And I eventually turned to writing, which is the place that I always, anytime I felt down, or anytime I felt anything, that's where I could find my center is through writing.

And unbeknownst to me, without any intention, I just kind of let the floodgates open about what I, I was going through and wrote this record called Death by Rock and Roll. And that was the turning point where I went, okay, I got to make music. Like, this is how I'm going to get through this. This is how I'm going to honor his legacy. This is how I'm going to keep his memory alive.

This is, I'm going to finish what we started and not let this take me down entirely, which it came very close to that. I kind of, I had to make a very conscious. decision at some point where I was either going to die or I was going to try to move forward. And I chose to move forward. And I think that, you know, obviously I think that was a good decision. It's a good decision. But yeah, that was a tough time in the band because it wasn't like a, you know, we're fighting so we're going to break up type thing.

It was, Kato was essentially the fifth member of the band. He just didn't tour with us. So it was like our band just died. Like, what do we do? my best friend is gone. My partner is gone. He filled so many roles in my life and he was in a blink of an eye no longer here.

And that was incredibly, incredibly challenging. And I think it's, and it still is, honestly. It's not really been that long. It has not been that long. And wounds like that I'm discovering don't ever really heal. They just kind of transform themselves a little bit over time. like they turn into these scars like they're a part of

they're a part of you that's never going away and it's it's it's I always say it's kind of like I'm no longer bleeding all over the floor with it like it's not this open wound but it is still a scab and a scar and if you pick at it too much then

yeah it's a risky little game this symbology of death the metaphor the poetic and literary usage of death I mean you know so many artists countless artists, most artists use it. But, you know, there is this like, I don't know, preponderance in your music there.

And so I'm kind of curious about two things, and you can kind of take it wherever you want, is thinking of like the deepest kind of most spiritual impulse there in the music, you know, what has been your perspective on death and how did this change that, you know? that's a good question um when expressing myself through through songs it's it allows me to go to the places that aren't necessarily comfortable for everyone that aren't necessarily comfortable for me and i think that that when you push yourself to to do that when nothing's off the table i think that's the biggest thing i don't put any limitations or like i'm not going to sing about this i'm not going to write about this. I think when you are literally an open book and you're writing, that's when

you're going to come up with the best stuff. That's what you're, that, because it's going to have an honesty to it that isn't just honest for the sake of honest, like, I'm telling you what I did today or blah, blah, blah, but like it actually is saying something that's deeper and bigger than me. And I think that that's always the goal. And so, you know, death obviously is a reoccurring theme in a lot of ways because I write about life and death is a huge part of all. life and um you know i wrote about it from my fears of death to my perspective of death up until up until this you know this recent record where it then turned into a new angle on it where the song and the title of the record is death by rock and roll which that like this is kind of an example this that song

came about because that was a line that cato had said years ago it was kind of this phrase and this motto that we all lived our life by. And it wasn't negative. It was death by rock and roll. Like I'm going to live life my own way. I'm going to go out my own way. Fuck anyone who doesn't get you. Like rock and roll till I die. And so when he passed, that phrase just resonated with me in this whole new way and I couldn't get it out of my head. And I was like, okay, well, that's, that was the start of the album. I was like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to honor him in music with with his ideals and his ideas, which were both my, also my ideals and my ideas,

and finished this kind of thing that we started when I was 14 years old, like, and not let it die with him. And I think that that was a really big struggle, but the song itself, like, it's so an homage to him. It opens, the first thing you hear on the album is his footsteps. I had a recording of his footsteps walking across the studio. And so, like, you put on the record, if you turn it up real loud, you can hear him breathing.

It's very haunting. So then getting to go and tour the album, which when you make a record, it's its own world. Then you release a record, it's its own world. And then touring the record, it kind of transcends and turns into almost something different. But getting to go on stage every night and a walk on stage to Cato's footsteps was just this very powerful moment. You know, it took something that was incredibly sad and devastating and almost killed me and I tried to turn it into my power of like he's here with me every night. and he's no longer here, but we're still doing this together. And that was something that was really important to me.

There's no way around the hard things in life. And I think that the only way to live life to the fullest is to accept that and to live through them and try to understand them as best you can. And I think that, and the way I understand things and the way I process things is through song. and so that's how I try to do it, I guess. I don't know if that.

Taylor, I don't know if that answered your question. I suppose you're terribly impressive. Like you're like a person of substance. Thanks. Thank you. More than a lot of people that I've met. Did she works with? Yeah.

More than anyone in this room. Wait a second. More than at least one out of the two people she works with. This is fun. I like the name Radiohead. It's fun. I think it's a nice name. I like it. It's nice.

That's good. It's cute. And we'll be right back. Well, our final question, on the eve of your 30th birthday. Yes. Let's go back to when you were 12. What, if you could, go back and say anything or do anything, what would you say to, what would you say to a 12-year-old Taylor? follow your gut.

That's what I'd say. She doesn't need to hear that. She did that. I know. But I would just reassure myself that that's the right thing. Yeah, that's, of course. Because I don't really believe in, I don't know what the right word is not mistakes,

but I don't believe in trying to change the past. You know, like everything I did got me to where I am now. Everything I went through got me to who I am now. And I think that that's important. So I don't, I never think about life and wish I could go back and redo something. A lot of times we have people reflecting being like, it's like, yeah, it's not about changing, but it's like, ah, that was such a rough time and I went through so much after that. Like, I wish I could just kind of say this. But what you just said is like, I mean, you kind of did that.

Yeah. You really did do that. Yeah. No, I did do that. I did do that. I did that. Oh. No, I think I would just tell myself, like, you're doing the right thing.

Like, it's going to be hard. It's going to be a lot of struggle. You're going to have to fight for everything to the nail that you want in life. that's life. And you're going to have some experiences that are going to crush you and you're going to have experiences that are going to be beyond your wildest dreams that you can't even imagine yet. So just keep going, man.

That's great. That's how I see it. I love that, Taylor. I love that. Thank you. So nice to meet you. It's such a pleasure to have you. Thank you for coming.

Thank you for having me. It's so good to see you, honestly. It's kind of blowing my mind a little bit. It feels like I haven't seen you in ages, which we haven't. It's true. I feel like I saw you yesterday. I know there's moments when you, there's moments when you like laugh or just, and I'm like, yeah, that's so crazy. I'm like, gosh.

I'm like, gosh. I'm so crazy. I feel 12 all over again. Big brothers here. That's very sweet. What were you writing songs about at 5 and 6? Do you remember? Oh, you know, moving around the ocean, traveling, not having friends.

My inner, you know, demons as a 5-year-old, you know, the usual. That's so sweet. Stitcher.