Podcrushed - Rob Lowe

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

**This episode of Podcrushed was recorded prior to the SAG-AFTRA strike.** Today we're joined by actor, podcaster, and certified Hollywood icon Rob Lowe, who spares no details about the highs and lows of his truly remarkable life. Nothing is off the table -- from stories of his teenagehood in the limelight, to his journey with sobriety and spirituality, to his discoveries about parenthood, Rob's signature blend of honesty and optimism is in full force throughout.  Follow Podcrushed on socials:TikTokTwitterInstagramSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada Hey there, just a note about today's episode. This was recorded with Rob Lowe before the SAG AfterStrike began. We very much stand in solidarity with our union members. We have removed segments of the conversation that were directly promotional for Rob's most recent projects. We have left intact the conversation where we're talking about projects from the past and the emotional experience, of course, rather than anything promotional in nature. So, again, you know, before the strike,

we are honoring the guidelines that we understand, and we hope you enjoy the episode. Thank you. I liked pop music. I like what I heard on the radio. I liked Dalton John. I liked Fleetwood Mac. Still do.

Like, I'm dressed like I'm in yacht. Look at what I'm wearing right now. I mean, I, not only do I like yacht rock, I'm dressed like I'm working on a yacht. Are you yelling after this? Yeah. I don't know a pen got. the chance to see the pants, but I didn't know, but it's very yachty.

Yeah, we'll send you a picture later. Yeah. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie. And I think we could have been your middle school besties.

Binge watching Brat Pack movies together all night long. Guys, if I look a little more nervous than usual, it's because I thought Roblo walked in the room and I had a full-on panic attack. Nava and I have been having like a low-level panic attack since last night. because we realized that Rob Lowe is in person. We were told it was over Zoom. We've done plenty of interviews with guests in person, but never, never without Penn. Never without Penn.

There's a very serious, panicky text thread where we're like, no, he's not in person. We're like, the document was updated to say in person. We were like, no way, no way. This is not going to be good. You can't be the first impression. You're going to humiliate me. No, I'm actually like super relaxed,

and I'm just here to comfort Rob. That's one of us. is what I'm here to do. There's no comforting YouTube, I think. It's really, really funny because suddenly all of our middle school vibe, it's just, it's just, it's right here on display. Oh, yeah. I'm in seventh grade right now. I'm going into the middle school dance with a heart drop.

I had a crush on Rob Lowe in middle school, guys. I was born in the 80s. He was like the icon of the 80s. I watched all those movies. I'm like freaking out. After the research, I think. I think I now currently have a crush on Roblo. It's really remarkable what he's done.

It really is. It's true. I don't know if there's been anyone who's been as, like, relevant as him for so long. Are we in danger of gushing about him as he walks in? Yeah, I actually keep looking out of the corner of my eye. Guys, I have a career to protect here. Okay? I mean, we're slowly chipping away at it.

Yes, fair. But, like, there's a foundation still. He's like, let me have at least three more years in the spotlight. Got a slow, a war of attrition, guys. Yeah. Anyway. Okay, so we have Rob Lowe. I don't know how you don't know who Rob Lowe is,

but in case you need the introduction, I mean, what? He's got Parks and Rec, West Wing, films like Tommy Boy, Wayne's World, thank you for smoking. There's so many. He's the original iconic The Outsiders with the Brat Pack.

He's got a podcast that I was on. literally with Roblo. We literally have Roblo right here right now. Don't you miss it. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine,

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Maybe there's another one in that area. And now, new leads that could solve these cold cases. They could be a victim that we have no idea he killed. Stolen Voices of Dole Valley breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode. Hello, Rob. I feel like we're old friends at this point. I know, but I'm just clarifying for anyone listening.

Like, it would be great, but like, no, I came on your show, but I already feel some sort of really special kinship. But that is, that's the point of my podcast. And certainly this one is like, There's something about talking to somebody on a podcast. It's really, really different than anything else. And I feel that way. I feel like I've met so many people.

Now they're my buddies. Now when I have a party and I have to keep the guest list small, it's even more of an eye. Listen, you can always count us off. I'll just taking the pressure off. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. It's helpful.

Did you say you're planning a big birthday? I am. I'm planning my my 60th birthday. Wow. And I'm like, it feels, to me, that feels like it's a, there's got to be a mathematical error somewhere. It looks like it. It doesn't seem possible. It doesn't feel possible. I can tell you that. It doesn't feel possible at all. But I feel like I got to own it. Yeah, totally. I can't run from it. I think my 30th birthday was the beginning of the, like, the myth of youth or the myth of age. something happened and i started to feel lighter and younger than ever and it's only you know

into my mid-dirties where i'm like okay that knee thing never used to happen as much or oh that it's like you know the back thing like i'm not a spring chicken so that's the only part of me that feels like it's not getting younger which is my body yeah my my and then the way i look at life a little bit is definitely is changed it doesn't feel like older but it's definitely different like and little things like um you know i'm an avid avid insane skier right okay and and i'm like well you know what i don't i don't i can get off the mountain by three i don't have to go to the last lift like like those kind of things that would never have occurred to me you have like more grace for yourself do you think yeah for sure yeah one or like you know what you actually

don't like bowling yeah you know you've tried it 50 times you're wife you've been like I'll go to bowl sure boar's kind of cool and then I'm like I fucking hate this Rob before before we get any further you know something that we're starting talking about age in some manner

and like I think a consensus that's come from this show is that youth is hard on the young you know there are all kinds of reasons that it really shouldn't be and they're largely social and cultural forces

but like it is it's actually very hard and i mean you know you and the entire brat pack was established on that kind of storytelling you know what i mean like so many also one of the things that you're most known for take it or leave it for better or worse i don't know how you wrestle with it this this heartthrob business this teenage heartthrob business i mean did you ever have an awkward face did you know oh did i ever have an awkward face i would bet you did but some might not think so. I would bet you didn't. No, I did, because I was super pretty. I mean, I look like, I look

like, dude, I look like fucking Brooke Shields. Yeah, you still do. Like, Google me at 15. I look like if Brook Shields had a Farah Fawcett Major's haircut. Yeah.

And, you know, like and guys don't like that. Like other guys, like, hey, you know who I want to play, I want to pick for for uh for uh you know football today or or dodge ball i want to pick the guy that looks like brook shield like so the guys aren't down with that at all and and and the girls aren't down with that really no they're like they want like you know right yes as they still do they want bad boys which i later learned how to become um got that lesson loud and clear but uh they want so yeah so i would

say for me it was like my awkward period was uh 12 to 12 to like 12 to like 15 17 which coincides not coincidentally with getting a little bit famous yeah which helps yeah did your parents ever say anything to you about that did you ever talk to your parents about feeling like to or feeling you know like my mother my mother once told me um it wasn't a deathbed confession my mom passed away many years ago it wasn't deathbed but it was something that she had not chosen to share with me until the fact that she was on her way out that she was very afraid that my nose wouldn't grow it's too small yeah she was a little triangle on your face she was like she was like you have a perfect little nose and I was just hoping it would grow

So cute, Rob. She makes me laugh. Yeah, that's really sweet. That's really sweet. And by the way, thank you, Mom, for not sharing that with me. At an impressionable age. At an impressionable age. And can you tell us a little bit more about your tween self?

Like, what were you like? What were you into? Just describe yourself at that age. I was in school. I was a pleasure to have in class, which also didn't do me any favors. Yeah, with the friends. Yeah. Now, the cool kids, you know, in the back.

And by the way, the back, for whatever reason, the back of the bus was the cool place. Yeah, same. I was always sat in the front row of everything I ever went to, always raised my hand. My mom was an English teacher, so maybe I got it from that. So not cool. Took school pretty seriously. Wasn't good at everything, but it was like I could never get, like, guys, we're going to ditch on Wednesday. I was like, ditch.

It was like, we're going to murder somebody on Wednesday. I was like, no way. Like, I literally could not, I ditched once in my entire life. Wow. And I just was that guy. What did you do when you ditched that one time? I finally got it. I was like in eighth grade and was just starting to feel cool.

And like a bunch of the cool kids were going to La Costa Beach Club, yeah. where they were going to play beach volleyball. Yeah. And so... Were there lots of Germans? Yeah. That's better. That's better.

Yeah. I was doing my Arnold deposition. I'm in the car. It starts with you. Once I start doing Arnold, it's over. She becomes my go-to de facto. But yeah, that was... So I was...

And I was really working on my... my career, I was taking, you know, like when my baseball team, I love playing baseball, like I would have to mispractice to get on the bus to go to auditions. This is in high school now, right? Yeah, and junior high too. Really? So you were auditioning then? I was auditioning from the time I got out here, from 13 on.

Oh, okay. So that's kind of perfect. That's, like, that's right where we believe so many seeds are planted. So, like, what was your relationship to art and performing then? you know kind of thinking of its most spiritual essence at that age that's when we suddenly are like awake to those things like oh yeah what maybe maybe just describe your yourself then or your experience then one thing i think about a lot is i didn't have older brothers or sisters so i never the only things that i liked and that it was exposed to were the things that i liked it was exposed to yeah which is a whole thing like you know the the the the like no one ever gave me lead zeppelin like and i think that's like i don't think you naturally as an 11 year old go wow i want to listen to lead zeppelin yeah or frankly like it right yeah i just don't think you do you like it if your older brother is smoking pot down the way

with a girl in the room all of a sudden you're like yeah i fucking love lead zeppelin that's so true do you know so there was a whole group there's a whole like thing that i never got like I liked, you know, pop music. I like what I heard on the radio. I liked Elton John. I liked Fleetwood Mac. Still do. Like, I'm dressed like I'm in yacht.

Look at what I'm wearing right now. I mean, I, not only do I like Yacht Rock, I'm dressed like I'm working on a Yacht. Are you yawning after this? Yeah. I don't know if Penn got a chance to see the pants, but it's very yachty. Yeah, we'll send you a picture later. Yeah. But again, it goes with my, you know, pleasure to have in class.

vibe Easy listening But I did Did Discover Saturday Night Live on my own At 12 And that was a life changer Obviously Yeah

For me Because I ended up working in that world And hosting the show a bunch And doing all those movies That were The Heather Genesis on S&L Totally yeah And you know

I would I remember Seeing one flew over the cuckoo's nest I probably would have been, I think, 12 again, 11 or 12. And being so blown away that I saw it 11 times and took a tape recorder into the movie theater and taped it. Whoa. What about it really like spoke to you? Yeah.

Bootlegged it. What about it was like so impactful to you? I mean, probably the performance. I mean, listen, there's a reason that it swept every category in the Oscars for the first time in 40. I didn't realize it was the first one. It was the second time it had ever happened. Wow. And so it's funny, my taste in that was super sophisticated.

Music, not so much. But in terms of movies and TV, I knew what I liked really young, and it formed who I was, who my heroes were. So can you walk us through sort of your getting into, and this is probably a story you've told many times, but we love to hear it, sort of how you got into acting, what those first few years were like? Well, I started when I was living in Ohio, Dayton, Ohio, and my parents took me to a local community theater. It was doing Oliver. I can only imagine how bad it must have been, like a community theater version of Oliver. But I think it might have been the first time I had ever seen a play. Wow.

And I just was, I hate to use it, gobsmacked, but I'm going to use it. I couldn't And there were kids in there Because you know Oliver has the whatever Little you know Little Mcuffins Whatever the hell they are called I haven't seen Oliver in a long time

The Mcuffins no A Mcuffin is a plot device Yeah Whatever the hell they are Orphans Orphins Please sir I want some more sir

That's all I remember Hungry kids Yeah Yeah Had starving kids in it And And I was literally hat was like

as like Brando says in apocalypse now I was shut with a diamond bullet right through the forehead and I knew that I wanted to be an actor but like with all of the great ignorance of youth

like of course yeah I'm just sure I'll just you know come right out the theater in Dayton Ohio and be a movie star because that's the way it happens yeah but I mean that is the case for so many kids, I feel like, I feel like at that age, so many children want to be actors because it's something you're exposed to. And it seems really cool and glamorous. So what was your path

after that from Dayton, from watching Oliver in Dayton, Ohio? I did, like, the children's workshops in the summers. Instead of going to, like, basketball camp. Yeah. I was doing, like, theater camp. And, you know, anytime there was a, a kid role there was a lot of summer stock in the area which was great

I don't know if there still is that was a great thing so anytime they needed a kid like I was there to do it

and there's one other kid who was my nemesis and it was always down between he and I love that

I really like that like if you rolled into Dayton and there was a great thing called the Kenley Players so the Kenley Players was amazing

it was a summer stock touring company that would play the memorial halls of all of the Midwestern cities in the summer and they would get for each play a star on their hiatus from their TV show in Hollywood

and offer them like, I don't know what the numbers would have been in those days, 30K for the month which in those days was kind of a lot. So you'd end up with like Henry Winkler doing grease on a bus and truck thing and they'd go to all these little towns but then they would pepper the cast with locals.

And so that was something that I aspired to. I never got the Kenley players. Did your nemesis get it? My nemesis did get it. But then you got everything after. Yeah. I made up for...

Do we know who your nemesis is? Probably not. Noel. Noel somebody. That says it all. Nobody. Just kidding. Sorry, Noel.

The one person we ever really hurt with this show. Noll nobody. Yeah, yeah. Wow. And then what was the journey to, like, the brat pack, like? So I, my parents divorced. I did not want to come to California. I was at that age of development where your friends are starting to be the most important thing in your life.

I was 12, you're turning 13. And you'd think going, you're moving to Southern California. You want to be an actor? You're moving to California? No, didn't want to go. It was very sad about it. the only reason we were moving was my mom's and my future

father-in-law or father-in-law stepfather practiced medicine in L.A. And my mom had really bad allergies. So we picked Point Doom Malibu because of its air quality.

Wow. Really? Wow. Thank God the air quality was not in like Saugus Newhall. Yeah. Or whatever. it was point doom yeah what an amazing place to grow up it's like stunning well and in those days it was really really really middle class so it was firemen and teachers and yeah it was people who you know bought their homes in you know 1968 for 65 grand wow and a lot of those people

by the way are still there in malibu although it's changed yeah entirely but when I lived there it was very very sort of middle working class and um and felt like it might as well been a million miles away from show business um and then um i got an agent and i didn't know what an agent was i had to learn and i cold called a girl who used to go to my junior high who was on a cloris leachman tv series called phyllis and she played the daughter and she was like an icon just like wow I mean, you would have thought she was Kristen Stewart. Wow. And I cold called her and said, hi, I'm the pleasure to have in class.

I'd be a pleasure on set. You don't know me, but how do I become an actor? She was probably like, what the fuck is this kid calling me for? But she told me about an agent, so I dutifully went and got an agent and started taking the bus into auditions. Wow. I feel like that tells us so much about you. Like you're sort of like courageous, like willing to take risks. Oh, shame was.

I had such, I'm, there's never been a goyam with more chutzpah. That's amazing. And we'll be right back. All right. So, um, let's just, let's just real talk, as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That, that dates me, doesn't it? Um, but no, real talk.

Uh, how important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean the, in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like, you want your day to, go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder. I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting to sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down,

I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with. The three that I use, I use the, what is it called, liposomal vitamin C? And it tastes delicious. Like, Really, really good. Comes out in the packet.

You put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it. I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning. Really good for gut health. And although I don't need it, you know, anti-aging. And then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8, which is really good for, I think, mood and stress.

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I-XL.com slash podcrushed. Visit I-XL.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. I was once in a when I still lived in in Ohio Liza Monelli had just won the Academy Award for Cabaret and we were we were having lunch in a in a restaurant and a hotel and I saw a bunch of travel cases going by with a stencil on it that said Liza Monelli

and I went to the front desk I said is Liza Monelli staying here and they go yeah and I go what room is she at whoa

and they told you they told me because he's so pretty because my nose was so small

that must be her daughter they're like a kid with that small and a nose cannot be

that must be Liza's daughter no they probably thought I was Tatam O'Neill because in those days I really

looked like Tatam O'Neil from Paper Moon yeah and I went up to And this is my other favorite thing

It's like what were my parents thinking Yeah they knew They let you Oh yeah I was like I was like I'm gonna go up to Liza Minnelli's room Whoa They're probably like shirt

Give it a try And I did And I went up Yeah And it was answered by The Tin Man's kid Jack Haley Jr. Wow

And they Because he was married to Liza at the time And he was in a white robe Oh And he said hello I said hi Is Liza Manali there So crazy, Rob.

And cringy, a little cringy. You also said both names. You could have at least said Liza. I love it. Is Liza? Yeah. Maybe. I was too much of a nerd.

I was like, Miss Monelli. So he invited me in. Wow. I came in, Liza was also in a robe. As I recall, she was drinking something, and it was maybe noon. Okay. And eating chocolates. Nice.

Wow. And she was in her robe, and we had a wonderful talk. What did you talk about? Talked about acting and Hollywood and, I mean, she must have had a lot of feelings about a child actor. Yeah. Showing up at her door. Yeah. Yeah.

And she couldn't have been nicer. And years later, during the height of the brat pack, I met Liza. We actually had the same agent. And we got introduced and I got to tell her that story. Did she remember you? It blew her mind. Wow. Yeah.

And she invited me to sit front row at the Hollywood Bowl and watch her. And I did. And that's that kind of kismet full circle stuff that I think is really amazing. That is amazing. That's an incredible story. Yeah. I mean, and just to underscore, you were what, maybe like 13 or 14 at this point? Or were you like 16?

I was younger. No, God, no. When I went to Liza's room, I was probably 11 or 12 at the absolute level. That might be. So sweet. That blue probably stand as like maybe our most emblematic and iconic middle school story. Like that's just because it just, it also just, it directly translates into what you've done, much of who you seem to be, you know?

I mean, that's really incredible. I, yeah, I just, I've always, I've always just sort of gone for it. Just go for it. Yeah, that's incredible. Did that translate to, because part of what we also talk about, partly because it's fun and funny, but it also, I think it can open up those other dimensions of the heart. What was it like for you with girls and relationships crushes? I mean, you know, because that's such an important part that's developing for the first time in life.

Oh, my God. The only reason I got my first big job, and by big, I mean big, it was starring on a network sitcom at 15 was because I just fell in love for the first time. and I had to go back to Ohio for the summers that was how I visited my father in the summers and I loved it I loved going back to Ohio and visiting it was great

it was never like I didn't want to do it this year I didn't want to go because I just I'm talking like the week before you know first kiss not first kisses but like a lot of firsts and it was like

and she was so beautiful I still have a thing for her And it was very romantic Her dad was a rock star Her dad was the lead singer for Three Dog Night Don't know it Don't know it Yeah you go look at

Come on you don't know three dog night I want to look into They are pretty sick Yacht rocky Okay Anyway So you're still trying to impress her Basically

Yeah Yeah You're still That's right That's right That's what I do so um i didn't want to go to ohio i was heart heart sick heart puppy heart sick shell go to ohio i'm there for however long week maybe 10 days into what's going to be you know

i think i was there six was supposed to be there six weeks which is an eternity and i get a call for my agent and it's a shitty little Nike they represent like commercial actors and like hand models and they go hey there's a TV show that you could audition for I'd never auditioned for TV show never all I never auditioned for were commercials because that's all this agency got and I was too dumb to know it's just an audition that's what people do I somehow got it in my head that they knew about me and and also knew that if I went back home I get to see me my girlfriend so i paid for my own airline ticket wow and flew home and i was with my girlfriend and so happy and oh by the way i went on the dumb audition and i got it's amazing wow so when you

talk about first love all of that stuff it that also happens to completely inform who i am because if I'm not in that show, I don't get in the teen magazines. And if I'm not in the teen magazines, when Francis Ford Coppola sends his casting people to 7-Eleven. Right. To get the teen magazines, to put up on a wall, I don't know if I get the outsiders.

And if I don't get the outsiders, then I really don't know what happens. Yeah. Wow. What was it like when you guys broke up? Was that like your first big heartbreak? Yeah. Yeah, she left me for, again, like a surfer, like a really good-looking, gnarly, you know, juvenile delinquent slash surfer whose dad grew pot on the property and might have run a sort of petty theft ring out of the backyard.

Wow. Yeah. Bad boys. Yeah. Bad voice. Rob, we've talked a little bit about how you have been bold in many scenarios, but I've also heard you describe yourself as a Midwestern people pleaser. And I want to know as someone who is also a people pleaser, is that something that you have tried to combat or have you kind of just embraced that quality? Okay, so I've embraced it here.

So it's a blessing and a curse. it can totally get you into a lot of trouble I mean for me historically I was once asked to do an opening number on the Academy Awards and I'm a people pleaser I'm an actor so when the Academy calls you and says we do this

you don't think twice you do it it ended up being one of up until Will Smith smacked Chris Rock just very recently but no one was happier I was elated because finally

it by the way it didn't it didn't knock me off Oscar's most embarrassing moments

you think it should be that's so iconic but my the picture of me doing a duet with snow white

will be right under that picture of Chris Ross he looks like we looks like Lee Harvey Oswald being shot

making the same face it's like I but that it all comes from me being a people

pleaser so it cuts both ways have a sense that it wasn't a good act like you said yes and then when you saw it were you nervous or were you surprised by the reaction to it um what i what i neglected to properly comprehend was the curing cancer Nobel laureate level with which the Oscars are taken I had thought it was a celebration of the industry and movies

and glamour and acting and I missed the message about how serious this event is. Yeah, right, right, right. I just missed it. I didn't know. Yeah.

You mean you actually saw reality and everybody else was a little bit deluded. Yeah, yeah. You know, because I actually, I think it's funny that you say curing cancer because I feel like growing up on sets, whenever I'm trying to relay something to somebody about it something that comes up I notice is like

the level of urgency on a set you know the level of urgency in Hollywood around what it makes is so high you know it is as though you're curing cancer or going to the moon oh and some some are worse than others I remember on the West Wing now granted the West Wing was you know whoever's at the top of the food chain

sets the culture on anything and on the movie set it's the director and on a TV set it's the writer showrunner and Aaron Sorkin

is one of the most he's one of the most talented but also intense people you'll ever meet and then you had other people who made Aaron seem like Mr. Rogers

and so when you literally that set crackled with importance and intensity and it was and I love loved it because it was great writing and I and I knew what it was but you would have thought

we were diving to the depths of the Titanic every day and we're worried about a pressure crack you literally would have thought wow that's amazing I was going to ask this question later but you have said maybe kind of kind of jokingly flippantly that your wife doesn't want is not interested in your work and won't watch any of the interviews that you do no of course not Yeah, which I kind of love that. I think that's like, yeah, leave work at work. She's heard all the stories. Yeah, that's right.

She's heard them all. She knows how small my nose is. I was thinking like, wow, I feel like as someone who's not an actor. By the way, can I just say in the 80s, having a small nose was a real hindrance. Really? Oh, yeah. If you're going to put stuff up it. That's right.

What kind of stuff, Rob? but I was thinking about that as someone who's who's not an actor is acting does it feel like just a job for you or does it encompass more than that I like to look at myself as I mean there are sometimes when I consider myself it's hard for me to say because it sounds so pretentious even using the word and actors you throw this word around so freely God bless them sometimes I consider myself an artist sometimes. That's when like I go, you know what? I think I have a one-man show in me. I think I do. And then I imagine it. I write it. I stage it. And it tours the world. That's, that's, and then doing a one-man, that's artistry. A lot of the time I think of myself as a craftsman, though. And that's when somebody gives me a script and I'm a fine carpenter.

I can come in and make this architectural blueprint spectacular, hopefully. Or, if not spectacular, at least something that I feel like I can give something that only I can give. So I think most of the time acting is really what you are as more of a craftsman. Yeah. That resonates with me. I've never heard anyone say that. I love that, Rob. Yeah. Penn, why haven't you ever said it that way? Because I'm just on the first half, I'm just like, definitely not an artist.

Like, so being a part of something like the outsiders at such a kind of like a vital moment where you know you're you're entering the prime of your youth it also is a story about the you know youth and particularly masculine youth and particularly like how hard it can be you know and and I'm just curious how like being a great I got a great story for you on this. First of all, I'm assuming you, I have two things I want to talk about.

First, and we'll get to both of them, but what came up for me just now as you're asking this is, I'm assuming you guys are aware of the fact that you're frozen in time developmentally the year you get famous, right? You've talked about this before.

We've not talked about this. We've not said it so explicitly or outwardly, but I'm certainly, yeah. Yeah, there's all kinds of frozen development. Okay, okay, write that, make a note of it because I want, but I also want to talk about, yes, come back to. Because you're asking something, I think, really sort of original and interesting about masculine adolescents coming into your own, the outsiders and the theme of it. And one of the things I loved about that movie was the love between young men, which is very rarely portrayed.

and there was a scene in so when the outsiders came out the director um Francis Ford Coppola dramatically chopped it up and only 20 years later did he finally release the movie that we made and he will he's on record as saying he should have just released the movie that he made so it took 20 years for the original for the good one to come out so in the original one that came out they had cut a bunch of scenes one of them was one of my favorites and it's me and pony boy so we're brothers i'm so to poppy's pony boy and we're raising each other and we're we have this tiny little house and we're lying in bed together cuddling and we're talking about our parents and it's the sweetest so my favorite scenes it's only in if you're going to watch the outsiders please watch the outsiders the complete novel it's called forget the other one the outsider's the complete novel and

they cut it because at the first test screening all the teenage boys went berserk oh oh gay facts even though you're brothers so that was cut so that says a lot about our culture

and where we are and stuff like that so when I think of the outsiders and that question and I'm always reminded that that was the magic of it and it kind of got stomped on until many cuts later because, you know, it's not a subject that a 14-year-old, 15-year-old teen, any teenage boy wants to deal with. Actually, I mean, I think a lot of men is also the problem, you know?

Yeah. When you were filming it, I mean, you said it was one of your favorite scenes, but when you were filming it, were you nervous at all? Like, because, you know, you're in that world. We were all of us in love with each other. Right. We were all, we, and to this day, when I see anybody from that group, whether it's Tom Cruise or see Tommy Howell or Matt Dillow, any of them, it's like, you know, it was our first time away from home. You know, it was like, you know, rolling into your freshman dorm at college.

Yeah. And, you know, and Tommy was only 15. Wow. And were you guys having those conversations about it? Because that's what happens when you're, I'm assuming in some form you did, because like when the best version of being an actor is that you were having this opportunity

to very consciously explore these dimensions of like the human experience that if you're just living life, sometimes you try to avoid because it's uncomfortable or whatever. You know what I mean? You're going to the uncomfortable place and making it your work to be there for these like long periods of time.

and depicting something of it. So how much of that were you really just kind of underscoring what novel was saying? Like when you're filming scenes like that or just, you know, knowing how like, for instance, violent Matt Dillon's character was, but how also incredibly charismatic and charming that kind of young man is in our culture? Like how deep were you getting at that point into that, you know? Deep. It was, it was, it was, and it was a great, because it was my first movie,

it was great training um you know there are very few directors like francis yeah and um you know it was hours of improv and living together and all kinds of rehearsals that that that a most people don't even do anymore at all but alone at the level that we did them and it was it was it was it was super intense i I've never been on anything that was as intense as the outsiders was in terms of the depth with which we all explored the work. And that was led by Francis, you know, because this is the man who made fucking apocalypse now, man. Yeah. You know what I mean?

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that you're frozen in time, the year that you become famous. Yeah, I think it's true. I think if you look around at anybody, just pick your favorite famous person. And unless they've done a lot of work on themselves, they're frozen at that time and um you know i've i until i got sober and started doing work on myself as i got sober at 26 so i was for sure frozen at 18 yeah i was frozen at 18 years old

i mean i had a glimpse of fame at 15 from the tv series i got because of the girlfriend yeah But it was short-lived. And then, you know, sort of banging around Hollywood, not really, you know, working, trying to figure it out again. And then outsiders happened. And outsiders came out when I was 18, 19. So that's, you know, you kind of get, everybody starts taking care of you. The world's your oyster. You got a lot of money.

You don't have to worry about whether a girl likes you or not because it's just, it's going to happen no matter what you do. It's great. You know, you can go anywhere. People want things. Then people start wanting things for you. and from you, and then you get defensive and you get closed down. So all this kind of chemical stuff happens to you. Yeah.

And that's just where you end up. What did 26-year-old Rob right before he got sober look like? Like what pushed you into that path of sobriety and doing the work? You know, God bless. I had that little voice inside me going, I don't know if this is sustainable. You know. and I had met my now wife we were dating

and I couldn't really make it work because I was too wild I'd learn to be the bad boy I'd learn that the pleasure to have in class oh that kind of breaks my heart yeah yeah because you were pushed into it it's it but I'm not this is really that this is the truth

this was my story and and by the way the first time I actually played a bad boy on screen was when I really blew up and that was in St. Elmo's fire. Right, right. So I was like, yeah, okay, I got it. Yeah. This is who I am.

I'm the lovably irresponsible life of the party, bad boy. And I just ran with it. And by the way, it was great. If you're going to have a if you're going to have an archetype

you're going to chase in your 20s as a single guy, that's a pretty good architect with the guarantee that you make it through because I think what's key is that you I mean because I'm with you

it's like yeah there's your story is amazing because you went to the edge and came back and you know that's like

that's true you know those who go there and come back are able to share the wisdom but I think the danger of course we all know

is it like you know not everybody comes back no and there's no I did I knew so I saw the movie shampoo

people have been telling me to see it I'd never seen it I obviously was a filmophile and I just hadn't seen it and when I saw it I felt like oh my God they've made a movie about me and I was a huge Warren Beatty fan

like he was one of my idols and the notion that at the end of it he's who he's charming he's good looking he's got everything going on the girls love him the guys want to be him and at the end of the day

he has left alone on the top of Mulholland and I was like this is me this is me this is where it's this is where it goes right here it's it's christmas eve and i'm alone and so i had that little and of course i was like yeah that's great and ignored it in it but i always had that little voice and then so um when the time came when i was ready to to to make a change um i gave i gave up the the drinking and the carousing and and was able to fulfill what that voice had been telling me.

Wow. As I understand it, like pursuing sobriety, that process includes some, like, thought or discussion about, like, a higher power. Sure, yeah. What's your feeling or your belief about that now? So when I first got sober, I was never raised in a religious family. and not even a spiritual family in fact

my family might even have been agnostics unspoken agnostics my grandparents were you know country club Methodists right so I you know I knew the church was the place you had to put the nice clothes on

and swelter in in the summer and just be miserable that was my entire thing and you would go sometimes with your grandparents. Yeah, and sometimes hide in a closet. Maybe they would not find me and I wouldn't have to go. It's one of my childhood memories.

Yeah. Wow. Now I know, they knew exactly where I was. Yeah. But my memory of it was I was able to hide. Like for hours they couldn't find me. But so that was where I, my spiritual religious, you know, that's what I had to deal with. And then I get sober and they're talking about higher power and power greater than yourself and all that stuff.

And again, pleasure to have in class. this is where it works for me I was like I'll do whatever you tell me to do that's what you're telling me to do and I also take direction for a living as an actor so I'm really good at that

so they told me to explore it I did somebody told me something that worked which is fake it to you make it I felt very uncomfortable saying the word God there was no way I was getting on my knees there was no way I was praying out loud

none of it but I could imagine someone who could and you acted like that I acted like that yeah I faked it till I made it so I so I would do it

sporadically enough to feel like I was doing it enough yeah and then one day it became comfortable and one day I began to have a real relationship with God

and then one day I mean it got to the point where I can openly talk about it and then And, you know, at this point, the last, I'd say 10 years of my life, I mean, the thing about recovery is you're always growing. Yeah. You're always working on something.

And if you're not, you're going backwards. So the journey for me, at least in the past few years, has been deepening and being more consistent in my relationship with God and meditation. and it's I mean it's it's it's beyond belief the dividends it pays I mean it's I mean it's great I mean I have a really I have a really good relationship with my with my dude I love that I also that when you were saying that I was picturing it and I was feeling like I would love to see a movie like that like we don't we're too scared to make movies like that or they don't get the money or whatever but that's like a beautiful story that's right yeah yeah that's true yeah yeah but so that's so powerful yeah it's it's it's a it's a secret power and it because it works it works totally

god is a secret yeah yeah no one's ever heard of the greatest kept secret rob is here to tell us seriously from the baha writings is uh the most manifest of the manifest and the most hidden of the hidden yeah good description or as i like to or as i like to say god could use a better publicist yeah that's true it's definitely true yeah um i do want to i i'm thinking of like I think that is an interesting thesis that if you test is is true this that like people who become famous or frozen at that age and you know that's the same as that's a trauma response in a sense you know your your development is arrested when you experience some form of a trauma and it's not the event itself it's the way you internalize the event and respond to it right how about this if it's not a trauma I think we can all agree that is a overwhelming earthquake shock to your system yeah and then it continues and so and so you've now lived your living through i mean a lot a lot of it a lot of it and so i guess one of the things you're making a lot of things now but something you're making now is um is a show called unstable with your son right yeah where i

feel like in some ways you are directly breaking down the fourth wall on this notion it's not it's kind it's it's it's not just fame it's also i think like in the case of your character he's like the hyper successful hyper brilliant like archetype of a of a man you know who's both a rogue and a genius and everybody's breaking down yeah not only what is worldwide success and fame due to the principle but what does it do to the people around them right and really that's the one of the biggest cores of the show is like what does it do to the son of the the person that everybody just falls all over and the sin is like really you know and and then how much of that is like what what really goes on in my life with my kid yeah yeah or not so yeah it's and we do have

I mean I will just say things in my daily life and he'll like do you realize what you just said do you do you do you do realize right and I'm like no I've been this is the life I have been the hand I've been dealt what you want me to do about it and I and then I like I like I I I I get give as good as I get. I'm like, there's a line where I say, I'm sorry, how many times have you had your picture on the cover of Time magazine?

Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Wow, what does it like to work with your son in that capacity? It's heaven. Aw. You know what? And here's why. It's not just the thing that every parent could relate to about how great.

Because when your kids fly the coop, you're lucky if you get them back for a Sunday dinner or whatever. Yeah. So it's a sneaky way of getting them back. So that part of it, obviously, everybody can relate to is great. Yeah. But what I wasn't prepared for was the freedom it feels that I have, knowing that I have a second brain on the set. Like, he and I share the exact same ethos, particularly in comedy because comedy is so subjective. Like, if he thinks it's funny, I think it's funny.

If I think it's funny, he thinks it's funny. I don't have to sweat every detail. Yeah. And when we're in the editing room, like it's, we're, when anytime I think in any business where you have a partner who you trust implicitly,

like if you had to go away for a month, you know everything's in great hands. I have that with him. And that's wonderful. Super, super great. And I didn't know if that would be the case. For all I knew, we would battle over jokes or casting or who knows what.

Yeah. That seems like it could have been. really risky. And the other thing is he has the perspective because he's young that I don't have. I can't have the perspective of, there was a moment in the first episode where you first introduced my character and he's crying, he's lost his wife, and he's trying to buck himself up. So he puts on music and dances naked.

And we had, we filmed it. We had the song, we did it, whatever. And we got to like almost where we were locking the episode. And he was like, you know, Dad, I just, I think I have a problem with the song. He's like, what do you mean? Now you tell me? Because I just, for my generation, it feels a little cringy on the nose. And I'm like, I think it's great.

And our co-show runner who's even older than I am, was like, oh, I love it. And then Netflix loved it. And I said, okay, can you do me? favor get every person in the Netflix office under the age of 30 that you can show them this sequence and ask them the question and every person thought it was cringy wow interesting so i would never have known i would have sailed blindly into cringe yeah and then maybe people turn away because it's the first thing that's exactly right that's so significant yeah yeah i am pregnant right now Congrats. Thanks with my first.

Oh, boy. Yay. Yeah. I'm really excited, but one of the things I was talking to my mom about that I'm nervous for is I already feel like I have so many hopes for my child and what they will be like or what they'll be into or how I'll be able to connect with them. And it's hard because a child will do what they're going to do, you know, or they'll become interested in what they are interested in. their temperament is not always so malleable. And I was talking to her about this, and this is making me wonder, you working with your son now and having this, like, incredible experience.

Is that something that you hoped for or that you thought you might have? No, I hope they wouldn't ever go into this business. Yeah. Which then I realized, wait a minute, who are you to say that? You've had a great career. Yeah.

But I also know how hard it is. Yeah. And no matter how successful you get in this business, I mean, you never know if it's over or not. And, you know, I mean, Henry Fonda, to the day he died, to the day they gave him that Oscar and that with that crocheted blanket, that famous picture. You know, from on Golden Pond and he died two weeks later, to the day he died, he thought he would never work again. Wow. Yeah. You know, and I was like, well, who needs that?

but as it turned out he had it in him he has it in him and so they're going to be whoever they're going to be and I think is a I mean I have I have not the you've asked for it but I do have my top five parental tips oh yeah I love that here go ahead in no particular order and none of these are earth shattering I'm not the first to come up with them but um the if you invest

in being with them, the dividends will be unbelievable. And, you know, it's the pickups, the drive homes, the parent teacher, the, the ball games, the, you know, all of that. I knew every one of their friends. I knew, here's the thing, you don't have to know the parents. Don't, listen, you want to? God bless. I didn't. I had great relationships with the kids.

Don't care about the parents. So, you know, all my son's friends are like second kids to me. I know I know what they do, what they don't do, what they like, what's happening with them. I know everything about their lives. When they come over, I talk to the, I mean, engage them, know them. That's a thing. I'm a big believer in exposing them to be like, oh, do you think that's appropriate to show my eight-year-old? And I'm like, I get what you're asking the question.

I get it. but my question was is it good like I probably showed my kid's stuff that was way inappropriate when they were young but it was good right I'd rather show my kids inappropriate stuff that's

has artistic merit than Pablam that is appropriate has there been a part of parenting that was harder than you expected oh my God the there's the

13 14 15 16, 17, 18, it was absolutely a fucking siege on my side. Why? Wow. Because, you know, I have two boys full of testosterone. Yeah. You know, it's the girls, the boy, sneaking the girls in this, jumping over the fence at night. I'm not hiding the booze underneath the fucking bed.

All that stuff. all of it just brutal as as Friday would roll around and the weekend would come I could just I lived in a never ending sense of dread because I knew the bullshit was about to start coming out of their mouths yeah yeah and the other thing is I'm just telling you all they do is lie to you I'm just telling you I'm sure did you did you did you ever feel like um how successful was were you and ever being able to leverage like, listen, I'm Rob Lowe and I went through. I had a hand in upholding some of the archetype, archetypal behavior that you're pursuing, you know, like can I not share something of what I've learned with you, you know? Well, the other great thing is that they may say that they don't want to know and they may act like they're not listening, but they are. And when my son John Owen decided to get sober, he's sober like five years now, I think. How old is he?

He's 27. Wow. And he is like my dad was always like an example. So he knew that there was, he knew what it looked like if he wanted to make a change. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was paying, listen, they're watching everything. Listen, they're watching everything and using it to their advantage.

Always. So when it was to his advantage to think about getting sober, he used it. Yeah. They're watching everything. It's a matter of what they perceive as their advantage. That's exactly it. Yeah. I like that.

I mean, there's no, there's never been an entity more self-centered than a teenager. Well, by nature. I mean, and even taking it's like, yes, it's true, it's funny. But even taking the judgment away from that or the valuation of that, it's true. it's it's it's it's it's it's neurologically biologically like yes what's happening is they're they're coming into all these like powers mental and physical but they've not yet had the experiences that would orient them outside of themselves and especially in our culture which is so individualistic and self-serving so therefore it's just like magnified that's that's part of what we think about in

the show you know it's like believing that this time in life they're going to be oriented some way and our culture very much orientes them to self and parents are like a matchstick in the wind sometimes with social forces it's really phenomenal it's yeah it's like and no one is going to come out unscath I love that you said it was a siege on your soul

my wife is going to love to hear that when I come home today because you know ours is he's in the brink of 15 and we're having new new experiences all the time just shaking his head closed his eyes He just said a silent prayer for me. I say a silent prayer for you. But again, it's normal. Yeah.

It's nothing. It's just what it is. Oh, my God. I remember those days like there yesterday. You, you know, you were on the West Wing. We talked about it briefly. You left under circumstances. It felt like took a lot of courage.

And I was just wondering, like, as a people pleaser on a show that was so popular, what was that like to leave and why did you do it? How did you muster the resolve to do it? Here's a great question. I felt very undervalued. Whenever I talk to actress who complain about, you know, their relationships on their shows. And sometimes it happens. It happens in any workplace.

Yeah. You can be in an environment where people sandbag you, want to see you face. don't appreciate you, try to, whatever it is. And whenever I share my stories, people are like, I will never share my own stories again. Wow. They would make your hair stand on end.

And there's some of them in the, I wrote, I shared some of them in my book. But I purposely didn't share half of the other ones because it would make the people involved look so bad. Wow. That I didn't want to do it to them. But so I did not have a good experience and tried to make it work and tried to make it work and tried to make it work and then what happened was my kids were getting to a certain age where I could see them having first girlfriends or friends and being in a in like a relationship that was abusive and taking it because. Because, and the one I really thought was like, the girlfriend, but she's the popular girl, everybody likes her, she's beautiful, it must be great.

All the things that people would say about making the West Wing to me, it's so popular, it's so amazing, it must be amazing, but I know what it's like. And if I couldn't walk away from it, then how could I empower my kids to walk away from it? I like that that you could connect that dot at that moment that's really that's really important it was the most

I walked away from the most popular girl at school but I also knew that it was an super unhealthy relationship

and it was the best thing ever did yeah that's inspiring no zero regrets because what people forget is the minute I left Aaron Sorkin left and then it was

the West Wing anymore you know it was ER in the white White House, which is perfectly fine, but I'm not interested in that. Yeah. That's really inspiring, Rob. So we've actually talked a lot of, we've touched on so much around this time of life.

We're just going to go back for the final question. If you could go back, if you could go back to 12, 13-year-old Rob, what would you say, if anything? I think I would just say, you know, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can, you can relax you can you don't have to make everything happen because i i was very much whether whether i actually was on my own or just felt on my own it felt like that it felt like if i didn't do it it wasn't going to get done and if i didn't take care of myself nobody else would that's what it felt like. And I think I could go back and sort of soothe that feeling that would that would probably be nice. Thank you so much, Rob. Rob, you're even more delightful than I was expecting and I had

very high expectations. I don't know how it's possible. It's such a delight. You're so nice to say that. Thank you guys. It's absolutely true. This is great. I love these talks you guys. Thank you. Pod Thank you so much. Indeed. Indeed crushed. So now we know how I'm going to react. So now we know how I'm going to react. Like visibly jumped thinking that it was him coming in the room.

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