Podcrushed - Sebastian Stan

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

We're back from hiatus! Sebastian Stan (Pam & Tommy, Fresh, I Tonya, the Marvel franchise, etc.) joins us to talk about moving to America in eighth grade, losing himself in his roles, and memories of Penn from their time together on the set of Gossip Girl.  Follow us on socials:InstagramTwitterTikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. I just was like, that's it. Like, be a fucking bull. Like, charge into it. Like, you have to charge into the storm. Don't run away from it because it's coming anyway. So you might as well get into it sooner than later, you know, and then you'll figure out a way out.

This is Pod Crushed. The podcast that takes the sting out of rejection, one crushing middle school story at a time. And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying. And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director. I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher.

And I'm Penn, the middle school dropout. We're just three beehis who are living in Brooklyn. Wanting to make stuff together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia. Well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for the therapy. All right. We're back. We're back.

It was a long two weeks. I'm sorry. Do you want to tell the listener what's happening right now? Nava is partially covered by a blanket. It's like a white furry blanket. It probably makes me look like a Yeti. What's funny to me is that it's neither obscuring you entirely, nor is it fully keeping the sound in.

So I'm not sure that it's doing what it. That's what David told me to do. He said to sort of cover the mic. Nav's under a blanket. That's where she's been on hiatus. Yeah, just two weeks under a blanket. Just to keep you all up. You guys were both on high.

Like you both had vacation. I've been working. Yeah, right. I don't have anything like notable. Nava, as always, the star student. I'm just going to run with that. I've been working this whole time. Never take a day off.

We're back from hiatus, except for one. Guess who? Nava, give the people what they want. For the love of all that is good in this world, what did you do this week? How was it? This was a very Sebastian Stan heavy week. So normally for the podcast episodes,

I watch at least one piece of meat, like a film or TV show that our guest has done. and I watched one of Sebastian's, and he was so good that I just, like, spent the whole week binging stuff that Sebastian has been on. Honestly, I'm like, I can't think of what else I did this week other than watch Sebastian Stan, like movie, TV. Navas, Stan, Sebastian, Stan.

Apparently. So, how was your two weeks? I spent the hiatus in Italy. I was with my parents in Florence for two weeks, which was blissful. Not much to report, you know, lots of pasta, lots of pizza. But actually, right before I left, my kid neighbor, was like, what are you doing later today? And I was like, not much.

She's like, are you working today? She kind of cornered me into it. And I was like, no, I'm not working today. It's Saturday. And she was like, I was wondering if you could just look after me all day. I was like, okay. That's so sweet. It was actually so cute.

So she just came over and she like she ate lunch at my house. Yeah, it was really cute. I mean, you must already kind of like be friends, right? Yeah, yeah. We know, I know her family. Not that well actually. Like we just met a few weeks ago. It was really cute.

I really love this little girl. That's so sweet. Remind me of something on you. Paco. Paco. Season one. Season one vibes. Yeah. What about you, Penn?

Well, me, so I'm back in New York now, home from London. I'm back with my family, just constantly with them and dogs. And trying to pick up my phone as little as possible, and I really enjoyed that. Welcome back to the U.S. Thanks, Blanket. And you know what? I can't believe. Nobody's mentioned this.

Do you see the hat I'm wearing? You're wearing a pod crushed hat. I'm wearing a pod crush hat. Wow. There's a video. Guys, I was wearing this hat a lot in London. Okay. Because my hair was so long and hard to wrangle.

There were days where I accidentally wore the shirt and the hat. Oh my gosh. That's embarrassing. Yeah. I've been rocking the merch. So you do like this podcast. Well, don't tell anybody. But yeah.

Just skip it between us. Guys, you know who I told about my podcast? Sorry, hour, hour. have to train myself, our podcast. My old friend Sebastian Stan, have you heard of this guy? Sorry, I'm swooning right now. What did you say?

No, no, but that's the blanket. You're losing consciousness. She's feeling faint. You think you're swooning, but it's just the blanket. Sebastian Stan. He's having a bit of a moment. He's doing a lot.

He's Emmy nominated for his performance as Tommy Lee in Pam and Tommy, a starring role in Fresh on Hulu, a little while ago he's got two upcoming movies one by the name of a different man the other is an Apple original called Sharper where he's playing alongside Julianne Moore also I don't know if anybody

is aware I got this on Wikipedia he plays someone by the name of Bucky Barnes and these little shoestring indie movies made by a company called Marvel it's about a gang of crime fighters I don't know but finally Sebastian and I first met on Gossip Girl where he played Carter Bazin also Sebastian

grew up in Romania and Austria and moved to the states right before eighth grade and he opens up about his experience as trying to fit in at a new school in a new country. You're going to love this conversation. Don't go anywhere. Don't go anywhere.

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What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Luhnan, and I'm the author of Oner Best Behavior and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread. I'm pulling the thread. I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to pulling the thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts. I just want to go on record and thank you so much for coming on, man.

I know your time is limited. Let's just jump right in. No worse. From what I gather, you move to the U.S. during this time of middle school, right? So I'm just curious, what was it like for you then, and maybe what is your relationship to it now, of what it was adjusting to a new culture, a new kind of schooling?

All that that comes with. Well, the first thing that I remember the most when you say that are Jankos. Do you remember Jankos? The jeans? Yes. The big wide leg? Yeah, the wide leg, the big pockets in the back.

I remember that a lot. And then I remember music comes. to mine a lot like MTV was still going on and I remember always watching that when I came home from school and Green Day I was a big Green Day fan like Tool and offspring like those bands and then but it was yeah it was a little weird because I came to the U.S. when I was 12 it was 95 and you know it took a second to kind of acclimate I mean I always felt kind of behind in a lot ways. You remember American pie? Yeah. I mean, the movie, yeah.

Yes. So I remember there was a scene when I watched the movie. They were like fucking with the foreign exchange student or something. They were like, say this. And that kind of happened to me. Yeah, it was an interesting time. My first grade in America was eighth grade. My stepdad who I, you know, who I grew up with

in those years, was the headmaster of the school. So like, I, wow. Wow. I I really was pretty screwed because I, because no one would ever hang out with me. Like I, I mean, I had like, I had like four friends. One was a Bosnia exchange student. Then it was my friend Vincent. But it was, I was sort of a kryptonite, you know. I was, it was because the headmaster's kid, you know, you just didn't want to.

But I also had 120 kids in my high school. So like my grade was 12. people. Wow, small. So the 11 others were like, yeah, no, he's the headmaster's kid. I heard you say in an interview, Sebastian, that acting kind of gave you this nice respite because in the rest of your life, it was feeling kind of like you didn't know what to do, what to say, you were learning the language, but then in acting you had somebody just tell you, do this, be this way, say this thing. Yeah, well, I think because of the language barrier, like I wasn't like a very confident kid like I wasn't engaging you know I wasn't the one going out there and kind of starting conversations and stuff like I guess so that's probably what I refer to is is more that you know I didn't have to figure out like what the right thing to say was I could just follow like a script yeah and then in the script of course everything is written for you the only thing you can do spontaneously is how you feel which is which is quite liberating I think acting boiled down.

to its essence is a pretty profound thing i mean you don't always get there on camera necessarily but i was also 12 when i was really digging into it and you were already working when you were that young oh yeah man i was so you moved to america i moved to l.a which was like moving to the america of america which was i moved to i was working i was being um uh cast already i mean i have you know i had an agent and manager all that stuff i had my sag yeah uh when i was 12 oh wow But what got you in acting? Well, I was very lucky. I had my mom who was always very supportive.

And then even when I was in Europe, you know, she would take me to these like cattle call auditions when I was younger. And then I booked this one tiny job that really was not a great experience. It was like this weird Michael Hanakey, like TV show in Austria. And I just had like one scene and one episode or whatever. And I just hated it. And then after that, she just sort of like, kind of like, do what you really want to do. And then it wasn't really until I was 13, 14 in high school.

I was, and I went to a small high school. So, like, we didn't have a lot of kids to, you know, play sports and then, like, do theater and all that. Like, everybody was encouraged to do everything. So I ended up through a friend kind of, like, trying out for the school play. And then I went to, like, this acting camp, stage door man. And then that really kind of like became fun. And by that point, I was 15. So it was all in high school, basically.

It happened pretty early, but did you ever have dreams of doing something different? Could there have been a different path for you? Oh, yeah. I was, like, I loved astronomy and, like, space. And I still, to this day, like, get very weepy about space travel and stuff. Like, I, yeah. That's beautiful. There was a trilogy of books that I was like, I remember being.

obsessed with it. It was like red planet, blue planet, green planet. It was all about like the how humans were going to colonize Mars. And I was obsessed with that. I just thought like the idea of like us like moving to another planet. Like I don't know. I get like a weird Zen thing about it. Navampen love talking about life on other planets. So yeah, in another podcast. Yeah. We'll invite you back for just like that. Let's get pulled in right now. Exactly. Sebastian, we have a couple questions that we ask every guest. So one is if you can share about your first love or crush and first heartbreak, because for many people, it is at that time. Absolutely. Absolutely. I went to, I won't embarrass her. She's got a family now, I think.

It's got children. But it was stage door manner. You know, like this camp was this magical camp in the Catsville. It's still there. It's like, that's where I met my manager, who I've been with for 25 years plus or whatever. And it was this awesome, like, acting camp. And I'm, met this girl there who I ended up losing my virginity too, but I was too scared to tell her that I was a virgin when it was happening because I wanted her to feel that she was safe, that at least there was one person out of the two of us that knew what they were doing. But years later, I did tell her that I was like, I was a virgin to and she was like, I knew. But anyway, I was like, oh, okay. But so it was a person.

really at that camp when I was 15. And what happened was, we met at this camp, and then she and I went back home, and then we kept in touch for an entire year of long distance, like, sending VHS tapes. Wow. Because there was no cell phone,

like you would have to call the house and ask to speak to it. And then we met again one other year at that camp, and she wanted to go to NYU, and I was going to go to NYU, too. I talked my parents, into coming with me to visit NYU at the same time that she was to talk to her her parents

which is NYU and we stayed at this hotel called the Hilton Hotel we told our parents that we needed money or I don't know how we did it because we basically got our parents to give us money and then we rented a hotel at the hotel room at the time hotel which was in Times Square and that's when we lost our Virginia together wow an epic story I guess you really wanted to know that That's very, that's, well, we, well, we said crush, but thank you. Yes. No, it sounds like this is your first love. Yeah.

That was 100%. Which is distinct from a crush, but I'm glad to hear. I said love or crush, but that's a really significant experience. Yeah, that is really significant. And it lasted for a long time. Was she also your first heartbreak? What happened was 9-11 happened, and everybody in the city had just like, like, was in another planet, you know, like, everybody that, that I'd been there and experienced it and even surrounding it, you'd feel it.

But it was around that time. And it was actually a pretty mutual kind of, it was sad, but it was a pretty mutual, like, we need to experience more things, you know. So it's quite poignant. But Penn, don't worry. I've heard a few times since. I mean, I've had a couple of daggers out of my heart had to pull, even in the times that we knew each other.

Yeah, I'm not concerned. Pretty sure you and I sure the nice New Year's Eve, Chad one time, didn't we? About a couple of daggers in our hearts. Yeah. By the way, in 2000,

I don't know if Penn remembers this, but I mean, I don't know why he would. Like, I remember seeing you at auditions in Los Angeles when it was probably 2006 or something. So this would have been right before a gossip girl? Before a gossip girl, for sure.

I remember seeing you. you like in L.A. when we were doing pilot season and like kind of like a weird like some Warner Brothers like, you know, network test or something. I just, Warner Brothers Camp. Yeah, Warner Brothers Camp. Do you remember your first impressions of each other on the set when you worked together on Gossip Girl? Penn? I was traumatized to be on that side. Really? I was scared. Well, first of all, I knew Chase, right so you knew chase well i did but like otherwise i didn't know anybody i mean i don't know that you and i would have had scenes together much because your storyline didn't interact with mine i know

but you were but you were very nice but i was legitimately scared to be on that set because it was just gossip or was everything i mean it was like i felt like it was like the new sex in the city i mean that's how i always thought of it yeah pen recollections of sebastian i recall that you were friends with Chase, because Chase kind of had this tight-knit circle of like a handful of actors. And at this point, I guess you guys all lived. Sebastian, did you live in New York then? Where did you live? You lived in L.A.

I did. I was living in New York. No, I was always in New York, yeah. Yeah, and in that sense, I think you did have a bit of a different vibe from like an actor coming from L.A. You tend towards a, like, a self-deprecation that was very charming. because like you're a very tall, handsome, talented individual, which are those markers that we just see being like, should equal confidence.

But you had a different vibe to you. I was always charmed and always thought nothing but good things, really. Oh, you're very kind. This has become the most awkward question ever. No, but really, man. really because i just i just remember you being like um there was just something very very funny and charming about how like i don't know just the the kind of charisma you could exude but also be extremely self-deprecating with like kind of like a like a very interesting hard edge on yourself

which i which i know you know can translate into as an actor turning that hard edge into characters who turn hard hard edges on other people you know what i mean But, like, I didn't ever see you turn that on anyone else. It's just, like, it was, like, interesting. I always wanted to know more about you. Oh. Oh, I appreciate that. That's why we brought you on this podcast.

Wish fulfillment for Penn. When you used to go to auditions, like, I'll say this. Like, I feel like, I don't know. Like, you either, were you a person that, like, just was like, I'm going to ignore everyone that's here and just focus on my thing and then pay attention. I happen to always kind of like for some reason I'm so freaked out by everyone else that I was like

I might as well just pay attention to what's going on and so that maybe I don't know but some people are very like no one's going to bother me you know you know to be honest I'd been doing it already for 10 years so I was in my mind I was about to check out I was like all right

yeah I'd been on like four failed series I was honestly thinking about just playing music and getting a job as a waiter as gossip girl came around and I was I was pretty disillusioned with, especially the audition process. Auditions for me then, and they continue now when I do have them, it's my least favorite part of the entire apparatus of what we do. And there's a lot to what we do that can be less than what you want to do, you know.

I'm actually not an inherently competitive person, but I saw everyone just as competition, you know, as like just, it's so terrible. fine it's the worst like it really is actually like the worst because all you're looking at every other guy there who's who's literally made to be like you because you're all going for the same role you know and it's really like oh that's not what i'm like yep he's like that not like me that's cool or it's like then you go the opposite where you're like i'll just be friends with everyone and then it won't feel as bad if like one of them will get it you know yeah and we'll be right back

all right so um let's just let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you know on like a one to ten and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed you don't want to get sick when you have responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have uh I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition,

when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turn to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious and I'm telling you even before I started doing ads for these guys it was a product that I really really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with

the three that I use I use I use the what is it called liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious like really really good comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that I do it I think it tastes great I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning really good for gut health and although I don't need it

you know anti-aging and then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8 which is really good for I think mood and stress I sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible honestly you don't even need to mix it with water and yeah I just couldn't recommend them highly enough

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movie theater in Congress, New York. It was called Cinema 6. And, like, I was the usher, and it was sort of like a really great thing because you would, Friday, Saturday night, you know, you'd be there for, you know, the rated R movies. But I remember many times, like, being embarrassed. I think at one point, I think I asked for a girl's number or something, like, while I was working there. And it didn't, it didn't go very well. I was like, you can have free pop. Let me sweeten the deal. bartering. What I feel like I'm finally recalling in my mid-30s, I just always felt this compulsion to be older, you know, like you really feel like you need to mature. I mean, even as you said

before, like you're trying to tell your girlfriend that you're not a virgin because somehow we all feel that we need to be in more control than we are. We need, you know, we're just, we're constantly making these projections because we're so, we're actually all so kind of like sweet and silly and insecure on the inside to a degree. And there's just, I just, I just, like there's not a lot of acceptance in young people of like hey this is actually a nice time to be that way you have plenty of the rest of life to be quite serious and do your taxes and raise children if you know i mean like like it's it's a curiosity i think we're exploring on this show is like what characterizes this time of life and why can it be so uniquely painful and yet we always remember it with such i mean like syrupy sweet nostalgia even though it often at the time is like all you wanted was to just get on with it, you know? Well, I think it's a really, and again, looking at today's world, I mean, you know, with social media, it's like, it must be so confusing.

You're already looking at your peers for acceptance and you're looking at them for guidance and you're afraid, like you said, to sort of own your own truth because you feel like you're going to be backed into a corner, you're going to be, you know, cast out. And now you've got this sort of social media thing, which must be so confusing for people. Because how often it conflicts with how they really feel consumerism in America, you know, capitalizes so much on this particular age group for so many things. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

They're preyed on. So if you're a teenager and you're listening to this, like I would say, like count yourself and give yourself more credit here. like everyone's after you to sell you something to take over what you want because you're passionate you're young enough at that point where you're going like I feel this I feel this and then tomorrow you might feel differently and then it's emotions and you're going up and down you're trying to understand what they are and then like you've got all these things kind of trying to capitalize on that and that makes me kind of sad because it's like I mean you know if you think about having kids one day you want to you want to be able to like steer them the right

way. And when they get to that age group, you fear that it's like, oh, my God, they're going to have to just, you know, navigate over these hoops that society is throwing at them nonstop. Yeah, that really resonates. I was just thinking yesterday I, I like finally got on TikTok. I haven't had it for all this time. And I was like, you know, scrolling, whatever. And I just felt really sad. I feel like in our society, there's no longer space for stillness. It's like stimulus, stimulus, stimulus. And young people themselves are like now the problem. Like, they sometimes commodify themselves, I think, not knowing that that's what's happening. And, you know, these platforms sell your data to other companies. So, like, you're literally, you are the commodity. Like, you are the product that's being sold. And there's, like, 12-year-olds on these platforms. And now a word from our sponsor.

TikTok. Yeah. Oh, it's true. I mean, I actually, by the way, I just, I don't say this is, like, a weird, like, attention to myself. But I did turn 40, like, last week. week. And it's interesting. Congratulations. 40. And so it's like, it's interesting when you're 40, you start to kind of like the bullshit really starts to kind of drain out. Now I kind of get to sort of start over in a lot of ways. One of the things I said to myself, I was like, you know,

I basically have limited now. I maybe open Instagram like once, twice a week at this point. Wow. I don't even know what that application does for me. Like, I think the point, was, you know, bringing attention to certain voices and certain kind of charities or certain kind of purposes that don't get the same attention. And for that, I'll stay on. Like, I'll try and figure out a way to kind of like, you know, partner there and keep, keep making it for that. But outside of that, like, you're right. Like, I don't have TikTok, but, you know, I open the thing and, you know, it just ends up being sort of wasted time. People have to be really careful. I just read somewhere that there was these lawsuits because there's the suicide rate

and all these things like parents are afraid of. And I don't, I'm not surprised because I don't think these companies are really factoring any of that in. No, I mean, we know they don't care about you. We know that their profit is their motive. Like, it's not even, that's an objective truth that we have to just contend with. The one thing that I do think is positive about TikTok, about social media is that it does feel like people who, have stories to tell people who have talent, there is opportunity for them to share those stories with a wider audience, which I think is really special. We have a house guest right now, and she grew up in

Iran and then moved to Australia when she was like a preteen as a refugee. And she was telling me that she watched this one movie over and over again because it's about this Italian girl who moved to Australia. And that was the closest thing to her own experience. It was the first piece of media she had seen where there was a girl who was not from Australia, trying to navigate being in Australia. And I was just thinking, like, how sad that that's the only piece of media that you had and still how much of an impact it had on her. And how today, like, there is a Muslim girl wearing a hijab on TikTok who's hilarious telling her story. You know, there's many of them telling their stories. And there are many more opportunities for people to connect with those stories, no matter how niche their experiences.

You know, they don't have to be white, they don't have to be straight, they don't have to be whatever, list all the majority groups. I think like the way that people use it, like part of the ways that people use it can be really positive. The challenge is that the platforms are based on an addiction model. I mean, that's like studied, proven. I think I've probably even mentioned this on a previous episode, but I think maybe it got edited out, so I can say it again. There was like a week where... We'll edit it out again, don't worry. Yeah, yeah.

We'll just keep cutting this tidbit. But there was like a week where Instagram, which is owned by Meta, Facebook, had, they had like received the results of a long, a long, longitudinal study of the impacts of the platform on young people. And it was basically, I don't remember the exact details. So we'll have to fact check this. But it was like if young people spent more than an hour or two hours a day, it had very real consequences on their mental health. It, like, it was proven that it was damaging. And that same week, Instagram had an internal mandate to try to keep young people on the platform for like three hours a day. And so, like, they knew that that would cause mental health issues and they were, like, losing young people to TikTok.

So they had an internal mandate to, like, how do we keep them on longer? So to me, that's evil. That's just, like, plain evil. Like, you have the information and you're doing something really evil with it because you need money, you know? And so it's an addiction model. It's a profit model. Need money. Want.

You want money. Yeah. So there are wonderful things happening on the platform and the creators of the platform are making you addicted. Yes, yes. I'm glad to put that in. Especially, like, you're talking about these. teenage years like they're so incredible in a way and i actually feel like when you're a teenager you don't get to enjoy them yeah it's true and it's like this wonderful time deep down where you

get to really find out about yourself and what you want what you like yeah no i mean i you know my steps on us 13 and you know it's interesting being a parent of someone that age because you know spiritually emotionally psychologically there's there's there's there's a plasticity and a resilience that somehow also characterizes this period where it can be so tough but you almost like don't have anything else to compare it to so you're just kind of like you're in the trenches of it you're in the weeds of it

the aspects of it that are hard and you kind of just like get by better than maybe adults would be faring with that level of I don't know like volatility you know I see kids that age as being quite brave and as you said before

by the way the background here on Nava and Sophie. Sophie used to be a fifth grade teacher. Nava used to be a middle school director and then also worked at the UN researching the effects of media on youth as one aspect of her work. So that's part of why they're here so that I'm not just rambling about much of nonsense. But, you know, it's a time that requires courage and just being is courageous. I was telling Penn and Sophie that I took a generous amount of work time this week to watch a lot of your, like, films to sort of prepare. So I watched Fresh. I'm going to keep you alive for as long as I can, unless you act up. Beginnings and endings? Feel pain. Listening to myself talk to you.

No, that's because you're in my suffer zone. Is that what it is? Oh, dear God. And I watched Pam and Tommy. What's up, Rose? Hi, Tommy. They're all here. Are they?

Even Vince? Believe it or not. And I was telling them that you, I mean, who am I to give you a compliment? Everybody knows so you're incredible. But you are such a chameleon. That's what I couldn't get over. It was like you didn't feel like the same person in each film. I felt like you were really lost in each role.

And I was honestly blown away. And especially your performance in Pam and Tommy. Like, I understand why you're nominated for the Emmy. It's incredible. So I don't know how you would know this, but like, how do you do that? Like, how do you lose yourself so much in each role? I worked hard. I definitely don't want to minimize that.

Quarantine really helped me in a way, like specifically with Fresh and then also Pam and Tommy. Like, Fresh I had these two weeks in Canada where I couldn't leave the apartment I was in. And then all I was doing was just like working on it nonstop. And the focus of that really taught me like, oh, you know. You don't always get the same chance because you have family, you have things, life and stuff pulling at you. But that time was really, really helped me out. And then similarly with, you know, I had another sort of couple weeks before we started, right after that, before we started the Pam and Tommy show.

And all I was doing was just morning till night. And I think, you know, it was an interesting learning lesson. But, yeah, I don't know. In both Fresh and Tommy, you have these moments where you, you, like, have, like, like, freakouts, you know, like violent scenes or aggressive scenes and, like, you're, like, really, like, fully, like, screaming. It's like a full body performance. And I was just wondering, how is that for you as an actor? Like, what impact does that have on you, Sebastian, the person, having to embody those, like, really extreme intense moments? I don't know.

It's, like, weirdly, I don't, like, you can't think about it in the moment. moment. Like, it's like a bizarre thing that happens because with everything, with every job, you sort of have a couple of those days where you know they're coming and you mark them on the calendar and they're like, oh, God, like this day, I'm going to have to like cry or like this day. It's going to have to be whatever crazy. And you kind of just pace yourself as you get closer and closer those days. But the truth is on those days, you just sort of have to kind of just say fuck it and like go there i guess and and i find that the more i've kind of like analyzed there something the more i have a harder time getting there so i just i just sort of feel the

sort of like the the the call and the pressure in the moment to be like well this has to happen now and like you know then then it would just go there but i've noticed that it also helps when you have the right support system the right people that you can feel comfortable with a director who can kind of hold your hand as you're starting to overthink everything. And then if it's the right earned moment because the script has built up to that, then you have confidence that you're not sort of like overdoing it or anything like that. You know, you're just, you're like, okay, like this is required of me now. And I've earned this moment.

I can go there. I'm okay, you know. I read a quote where Lily James was saying that that scene where all the lawyers in the room or, like, disregarding her and being rude to her, that she, the person, had a hard time distinguishing it. Like, her body didn't know the difference between, like, Pam and Lily. And I was just wondering, it was, like, playing an aggressor, and I've asked Penn this question privately. Like, playing an aggressor, does your body know the difference?

Like, does that stir up any feelings for you? I think you asked on another podcast. Oh, did I? Yeah. Not privately. I was like, I was there, for sure. She was kidding. You know, I remember I was looking at your show,

and, like, you've explored all those. sort of complexities of someone who has these obsessive tendencies but then like, you know, they're human too. But I would say that your nervous system ultimately doesn't really know that it's not real.

Like it can't. Like it's just you know, it's just reacting and, you know, I think you're always sort of have to you're, you know, there's a bird's eye view of the situation that has to be there to be like, you know, it's like meditating. I don't know if anybody meditates here.

or whatever but when you meditate they say you're watching yourself in the experience and i think there has to be something like that so that you can still measure it out because otherwise it just becomes like all over the place it's like it's this balance between somehow letting this this nervous process take over you while having enough of a rational mind left over an analytical mind to It's a very, very strange, like, threshold to straddle multiple hours a day. I've learned, like, if you go, you know, once you go home, I think sometimes it really does help to do the opposite, you know? And I think it does help sort of your friends, your family, like, you kind of have to have those things that can always anchor you in a way. Stick around.

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to no end for that I later on realized I didn't have to and and I guess like I would if anything I would pass on would be to ask yourself whether this here problem is really a a problem and or is it just it's okay you know like maybe you've maybe you are just the way you are and that's okay and that doesn't have to be like everybody else and you know um like i heard this great thing recently on a podcast it talks about like the difference between cows and bulls bulls in a storm and apparently cows run away from the storm but bulls actually charge into it. And I just was like, that's it.

Like, be a fucking bull. Like, charge into it. Like, you have to charge into the storm. Don't run away from it because it's coming anyway. So you might as well get into it sooner than later, you know, and then you'll figure out a way out. I love that. Are those the only two options? Could we get together with the other cows and figure out a way to handle the storm?

To handle the storm? Sebastian, this was so great. Thank you so much for your time. Listen, thank you for having me. It's so nice to see you again, Penn. It's been a long time, but you look just as young as you always did. All the best and don't be a stranger. And so nice to meet you guys. And thanks for having you. So nice to meet you. Today's story is a fun one. It's quirky and it even features a little bit of witchcraft. It's called Pool Ties. Take it away, Penn. In fourth or fifth grade, so this would have been 2003-ish, I think. The heartthrob in my class was Holt.

I had a really big crush on Holt, and these were the early Internet years, so I'd sometimes poke around and find some love spells and alike online, but I think this particular idea was pretty much all me. So our elementary school class had one of those postcard-sized things with every student's class picture, each one about the size of a stamp, as well as the teachers, you know what I'm talking about? So anyway, something taught. told me that I needed to cut out Holt's picture and put it in my sock.

I walk around with this kid's picture underneath my foot for the better part of the day, I suppose, and then I go to my swimming lesson. Now, by this time I've forgotten all about Holt's picture. I changed into my swimsuit in the locker room. I walk out onto this big Olympic-sized swimming pool. It's very legit. And I dive in. I jump into the pool.

I happen to look down. and I see this kid's face sinking. His sweet postal stamp-sized face just looking right at me falling out of reach and I panic. I spend a few whole minutes at the start of my lesson jumping down, trying to grab this little cutout photo. The pool here was probably about like eight feet deep.

I had goggles and everything, but I don't know if you've ever tried to grab something off the floor of a swimming pool. You know what I mean. Things become elusive down there. and finally I gave up. Sometimes I think about that little photo, turning up in the pool filter or something,

like a stamp-sized dough-eyed fifth-grade boys' portrait. Amongst all the scrunchies and bobby pins and whatever else ends up in the ocean, killing the dolphins. Bye. You can catch Sebastian Stan in the upcoming film, A Different Man, or you can follow him online at Sebastian Stan.

Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgeley, not a Kaplan, and Sophie Ansari. Our executive producer is Nora Rich. from Stitcher. Our lead producer, editor and composer is David Ansari. Our secondary editor is Sharaff and Twistle. This podcast is a ninth home production. Be sure to subscribe to Podcresh.

You can find us on Stitcher, the Sirius XM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials. It's at Podcresh, spelled out how it sounds, and our personals are at Pembadjley, at Nava, that's Navo with three ends, and at Spreble by Sophie. And we're out.

See you next week. Stuff in his portrait in my sock, sticking his face to my foot, killing the dolphins with Holton, killing the dolphins with Holton, the shame I have carried my whole life for killing those. Dolphins with my foot Stitcher