Podcrushed - Sophia Bush

Episode Date: April 5, 2023

Today on the pod we have Sophia Bush (One Tree Hill, Good Sam, John Tucker Must Die), who sits down to discuss her activism journey, love as a daily practice, and navigating life in the public eye. Follow Podcrushed on socials:InstagramTikTokTwitterSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada I don't know if we've already asked this question but I have been wanting to know what was your favorite song in middle school? What was your tune? I love that. It would have been something by Drew Hill and then maybe Cisco.

It might have been thong song because I did do this. We talk about this? I did, I guess I had a dance. What? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We talked about this on the, you know, the host episode. The one that people love the most, because it's just us.

What the heck? You talked about having a dance for the song? So, no, when I took hip-hop classes at, like, 13 years old or something, the one that I, like, did the best with, for whatever reason, was Cisco's thong song. Guys, let's start a change.org petition for Penn to have to do the thong song on TikTok. That's great. At change.org. Change the world.

Oh, my God, yes. So good. How about you guys? Oh my gosh. I need a moment. You need a moment to just genuflect. Penn, you said you did a performance to Thong song. I did a performance when I was in elementary school to One Two Step by Sierra.

Oh, yeah. And I loved that song. Not quite middle school, but I did love it. And then again, in high school. So basically you're not answering the question. Yeah, I know. It was my question. I didn't have an answer for it.

Hey, Nava, what's your favorite song right now? What's your favorite song on Midnights? Yeah. Yeah. My favorite song on Midnight, that's a good question. That's really hard. I'm confusing them. Lavender Hay. No, not Lavender Hayes. Labyrinth. Labyrinth is my favorite song on Midnuts. But I had a lot of favorite songs in middle school. I sort of liked I liked Spanish, like, rock. And then I liked really pop stuff like the spice girls. And then I really liked Oasis and like alternative. So it was like, it would have been like one of each of those would have been like constantly on repeat. What's some Spanish rock? Can you name something? Manna. There's a group called Mana. Oh, yeah. and I loved them. One of my favorite songs was like Borraja in El Bar,

which is like drunk at the bar, which is not an experience that I relate to, but I used to love that song. I would listen to it all the time. Is it because you usually just drunk at work? Yeah, just because I'm always drunk. Started young. Sophie, I cut you off.

So we're just going to keep going. What was your favorite song in high school and avoid middle school at all costs, please? Oh, like, what the heck? Why can I not think of one? Um, no, I, I listened to the song black and yellow at the club all the time. And it would, our school colors were black and yellow. So it's not my favorite song, but it's one that I have a lot of, at the club?

At the actual club. You mean the club as in like the proverbial club? Like the clubs you went to in high school? Yeah. You went to clubs in high school. Was this in Manila? Yeah, in China, in Beijing. Oh, wow.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. You went to clubs in Beijing in middle, in, no, sorry, not in middle school. This is a show about high school. High school No but that song when it would come on I would be with school friends

And when that song came on Because those were our school colors It was like oh my God So yeah a lot of memories Connected to that song But I will not be talking about middle school today No You know who will be

Our lovely lovely guest Welcome to Podcrushed We're hosts I'm Penn I'm Nava and I'm Sophie And I think we would have been Your middle school besties I don't know

I think Nava might have been a bully Today we have Sophia Bush An actor and activist you might know from Well, it's a bit of reunion Because she and I were together In a movie by the name of John Tucker Must Die Which I think we're both discovering Had

You know, longer legs than we anticipated People really love that thing And add us both a lot, I think You also know her from One Tree Hill As Chicago PD And her two podcasts Work in Progress and Drama Queens We had a really lovely

be far-reaching conversation. I think you're going to love it. Stick around. We'll be right back. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. NomNam does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins,

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store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrush spelled try-n-o-m.com. slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Lunin, and I'm the author of Honor Best Behavior and the host of the podcast Pulling the Thread. I'm pulling the thread. I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves,

others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to pulling the thread from Lemonada Media, wherever you get. Your Podcasts. I feel like you're comfortable, you know, you're comfortable. I mean, we've only known each other for 18 years. Is it that long? Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I was probably, yeah, I mean, it's probably 17. I don't think I was older than that. I had, do you remember, when we met, did I have braces? We were going to talk about that. But let's, we like to start going deep in the show because then it just gives you kind of every, every depth to play in. Love that.

If you want it. You once said in an interview where you were being interviewed, you said jokingly that you can't, you don't know how to keep it light or that you don't like to keep it light. And now we can keep it light plenty, but this is a problem we have as well. And you said you would rather start a conversation

by asking somebody, how's your soul? And are you dealing with your childhood trauma? So, I just want to start with that question. How is your soul? And are you dealing with your childhood trauma? In fact, I am. I did back-to-back sessions of therapy today. Hello.

Wow, back-to-back. Yeah. Two different kinds. Yeah. And my soul feels good, but it is a really, it feels like a really interesting moment. I am, it is so funny how comfortable I feel talking about nerdy, deep things with you because we were so young when we were. made this movie together and everyone was having a great time and I kind of was like,

this is great and so intense. Does anyone want to sit in the corner and talk about feelings? And I feel like you're the only other person on our set who really wanted to do that. I'm always perpetually in that corner. And so the familiarity of that feeling of safety sticks around, even though I've probably seen you, I don't know, three times in the last decade. That's probably true, yeah. That might even be pushing it. In the last decade, specifically, I think it's once. It was in Chicago. Do you remember seeing me in Chicago? That's right. Yeah. That is where it was.

Okay. But so, in a way, I want to ask you this question because you feel familiar, but it's really a question for the room. I am observing, and I wonder if you are as well, that it seems like a lot of people are in a period of the dark night of the soul. Oh, yeah. You know, everyone's really pulling things apart and untangling all the knots that are keeping them stuck. And it's a really amazing process. It feels like everyone I know is doing it individually and certainly we're trying to do it as a society because we are a fucking mess and we need a little bit of straightening out. But it's a wild thing to learn to lean into discomfort for me to not try to fix it immediately, to not try to make it better immediately, to not try to feed everybody something.

That's like my Italian and Jewish grandmothers combined in me. I'm like, are you hungry? Do you a snack? So I feel really at peace, but I feel like I'm also in a time of real depth. And that's why I think I'm adding other modalities of ways to internally excavate. And why I was like, I've already got therapy on Tuesday. let me throw this other appointment right next to it and just really be a straight-A student.

I was actually talking to a friend of mine recently. I think two days ago we were driving together and I think my friend asked me or I asked her, do you feel like a lot more people that you know intimately are depressed? And I think the answer is yes. And I think there is like a just a heavy time and it's hard not to internalize that

and try to find your place in a world that maybe doesn't make sense. I mean, to me it feels, like really the root cause is the break between seasons one and two of Pod Crushed I think actually It's devastating

They're spiraling They don't know what to do with themselves Guys let's not complicate it When you can identify The root cause You can treat it And the solution is Sophia Bush Well I'm thrilled to be here

Well actually So Podcrush is about Middle School primarily And then we use that as a jumping off point to talk about the rest of your life but I do want to know a little bit more about you in that time of life around 12 or 13 I've been thinking about I'm always thinking about that time especially because of this show and I feel like if we think of childhood or middle school as a spectrum there are some kids

who grow up quite sheltered and then they're on the other end of that spectrum I would say there are kids who grow up with a very few boundaries a lot of agency and freedom and I'm wondering where your childhood falls on that spectrum. Maybe that's a place to start. Yeah, definitely a lot of boundaries in my house. I think, you know, being a child of immigrants and my dad moved here to go to college. And my mother's mother and her whole family actually immigrated here.

They came on a boat from Italy and lived in the Bronx. My mom grew up in a housing project in the Bronx. and then eventually her dad post-naval service started working in a mannequin factory and eventually moved them over the George Washington Bridge into a cute little suburb of New Jersey and I remember everything about him was so nostalgic and when he passed away the same furniture set

with the same desk he'd gotten my mom when she was nine or ten was still in her childhood room with like carving of her brother's name. that they had gotten in like a knock-down, drag-out fight about. And I have so much sense memory, especially of her family, because there's so much that was changing in that era. And I share the story only to say, I think it really affects the way I grew up.

You know, my mom's family was, you know, big and loud and beautiful. And in the era that my grandmother was raising my mother and her brother, It was a huge era of anti-immigrant sentiment, which we're seeing again now. And there were a lot of hardships faced by those communities and, you know, certainly not as intensely in any way as our communities of color, but, you know, the name calling and the holding people out of jobs and the struggle made my grandmother, like so many families, one of those people who said to her parents, you can't speak Italian. to the kids. No more in this house. We're American. We have to be American. So in one generation, my mom lost her culture, but gained a huge sense of anxiety about being so under-resourced, you know, living with so little, and trying to figure out a way to fit in. And my dad, coming here from Canada, it was very quickly not lost on him that when he would talk about

the difficulties of you know coming to this country and becoming a citizen and how long it takes he didn't become a citizen until i was 13 years old people it's oh we're from canada it doesn't count my dad would always turn to me and go they say that because i'm white and i was like that's pretty cool like my parents were out you know arguing in in the eras that we grew up reading about for civil rights for people and and they've always gotten it and so there was a lot of both the the struggle and the privilege that they were conscious of that they could share. And as an adult, when I look in my linen closet and I'm like, why do I have 700 bottles of hotel soap in Ziploc bags?

I'm like, oh, because I was trained to do this. Like, don't ever waste anything. Don't ever throw anything away. It's the same reason I built compost bins in my backyard. I'm like, we can't waste food. And by the way, we shouldn't. That's a great trait. But all of those things, those anxieties, I think the desire to fit in,

the desire to prove yourself, the desire to be, you know, quote, good American, made my parents very strict. And in a lot of ways, I got to have a great childhood because I wasn't exposed to too many things too early. But there were hardships. There were issues that they had that affected me as a kid. There's all sorts of childhood trauma that I have to process. And interestingly I think that in a way because they so wanted to preserve my ability to be a kid and in middle school they sent me to an all-girls school which was incredible for my education

but meant I could not spot a lie on a man's face to save my life because I've never really hung out with them I've never heard that spotting a lie in a man I just I was like people are wonderful I grew up with these incredible teachers and mentors and, like, you know, the guys in my life were my childhood best friends from camp. And my boyfriend from college was a sweet dream who was a graphic designer, who I'm still friends with. And so when I got into the wild west of our industry, I was just like, people here are nice and creative.

And, man, I got stomped on. So it's a really interesting thing to realize that in whatever... handful of cards you're dealt, for both the good and the bad, there will be penalties, you know? Yeah. And that's been something really interesting to learn to process as an adult is to be thankful for things and to see the ways that, the ways I was very prepared, the ways I was completely unprepared. Yeah. And, you know, what I've learned.

Sophia, I am a huge One Tree Hill fan. I watched it as it was current. And I remember, I mean, you're so beautiful and like such a lead in that show, but I remember really admiring you because you were very, like very involved in social activism. And I think at the time it wasn't common for actors. It is common now and I think that's a good, a positive trend. But you sort of stood out to me as like an actress that was very passionate and vocal about different social issues. And I'm just wondering, do you have an early memory of like when you started to really develop a sense of justice? because it seems to be like a strong characteristic of yours. Yeah, it's always really been there. And I've been asked that question, so I asked my parents. And my mom, you know, my dad started laughing,

and my mom just said, you were always like this. And my dad goes, you've always been a pain in the ass. And I was like, okay. You know, in sixth grade, I wanted to start a beach cleanup club. And no kids, it turns out, that are 10, want to clean up trash at the beach. So my mom used to take me by myself with a garbage bag and a little vest. So cute. That's so cute. In eighth grade, we were organizing walkouts at school to protest for our teachers for, you know, better policies for them.

I think because I grew up knowing, you know, about the blue-collar jobs that all the generations in my family worked before me, I was really passionate about unions and still I am. When people get really aggro and say like, oh, you're a rich actor. What do you know about a union? I'm like, I only have health care because I'm in a union. Not everybody who does our job is rich. And also, the only people I hang out with are union. Like the construction teams, the teamsters, everyone we get to do our job with is protected by these organizations. So it's always been really clear to me. But you're right.

Early in my career when I got very vocal about everything, so many people said to me, You can't do this. You can't be so political. You have to pick a cause. You go to the gala. You write a check and you keep your mouth shut. And I just thought, well, I didn't get into this for that. That's what I got into it for.

You just really, you just want to get in the outfit. Just want to go to gala's. Made for it. Bougie. Man. Yeah, but I just don't know what we're doing here if we're not figuring out how to be here together. in a better way and I think the reason

I find what's happening in the world today so egregious is because we grew up studying all of this we've been here before and by pretending that our history

is not our history by pretending that human beings will not be monstrous to each other if permitted to be we're just seeing these hundred year cycles

repeat themselves and that's really well put I just don't know how we go quietly so I'd much rather people say God she has a lot to say or she is a pain in the ass

than she seems nice I don't want to be nice I want to be here with you with us for real because we don't get to be here for that long in the grand scheme of things can you recall those those sort of

those early conversations with your peers when you were you know rounds about 12, 13 you're in middle school you're talking about doing this this beach cleanup, right? I mean, like, you know, so were there, what were those invitations like? What were you, you know?

And how were you received as a kid? Oh, man. Yeah. I still chronically feel like I'm in the way. So I'm the kind of person who comes in and says, listen, this is cool and this is what's happening. And I think we should do this. And if you don't want to, it's totally fine. But if you do, I'd be thrilled for you to join me.

You know? And that's another thing my therapist says I need to work on. She's like, why do you apologize for your interests? I think my response is often. I don't assume there everyone else is. interests but I'm tremendously awkward in like a big group and have been forever people who know me really well laugh when I say that because they don't think I appear awkward and I'm like oh no I'm just good at dying on the inside but I am an actor so I can I can keep a calm face but on the inside

I'm consistently in a panic which perhaps comes from you know that that whole dynamic of just wanting to fix things, improve things, and earn things, you know, as a kid. So when you were a kid, when you were a teenager in middle school, did you have like a group of friends who you really connected with or were you kind of a floater? Tell us a bit about that. Yeah, I had, I had friends eventually that I really connected with. There were some girls that I was so intimidated by that eventually I was kind of welcomed into the friend group. Um, I recalled, and I don't think I had the words for it then, but I realize it's a way that I feel pretty often still at this stage. And I wonder if you feel this, you know, if you have to go to a big award show or whatever.

Like, that's my worst. Never been. Lyer. Really never? I've never been to one. That is not true. I'm not saying events. Events, yes.

The words know. But like. It's been a while. Yes. Trust me. Yeah. Yeah. Events is a similar feeling.

Things. Yeah. No, I mean, especially the gossip world. Yes, I mean, they were like, they were countless things, yeah. I know we're all in the room, but I usually feel like I'm in the wallpaper. Yeah. You know, I'm in the room, but I don't know what anybody's doing. I have no idea what they're talking about.

I don't know why everybody knows everybody, or maybe they're just pretending. I know. It's such a, it's such a tiny little pyramid at the top. It's just so weird. And then people say, well, you're invited. And I'm like, yeah, but I'm just going to, I like this table here with the water and the coffee. My, I, you know, my, my. My theory, I mean, I do think that the irony of those spaces is that virtually everyone feels that way,

and everyone is doing an almost criminally good job of masking it so that it enforces the fear in everyone else. And there's really only just a few people who might feel at home there, maybe really just a few. And I think maybe they're the people whose names we don't know as well. I think they're the people who are funding it. And that's also why there's so much, like, I don't know, like substance abuse coursing through

our industry because when you find yourself in those environments actually no one feels it's just cameras everywhere everything you're saying is being listened to and you're going to be judged or at least you're afraid of being judged and so

what you're saying not only does it resonate I just think that the more the more I ever have this kind of conversation with peers in our industry, which by the way, you know, living in New York and kind of coming up with the career I've had,

I don't get that opportunity as much. To be honest, like, apart from, like, when I'm on set. But I do think that most people feel a bit this way, especially in our industry, like the ever presence of cameras, the ever presence of, like, you know, we are kind of, we're participating in the holding up of, like, the whole facade of the culture in a way.

And that's a lot of pressure. And that no one there is actually responsible for alone, you know. Well, and I think that that facade is so much bigger now because of the phones. If you went to an award show or some event, even a fundraiser 20 years ago, it was filmed and it was on TV and then it was done. Yeah, that's true. And now everything is memed and it's made into TikToks and lip readers are saying what somebody's husband is or isn't saying. in their ear at the show and it's just it's so

invasive so maybe that's why I like the corner better anyway but that feeling I remember even in middle school you know the school that I went to started in fourth grade and a lot of girls

started there in fourth grade so I got there as one of the new kids in the seventh grade and there were only 55 girls in my class so it was such a small group within which you were supposed to find a community and I definitely found some and I do still remember feeling like an odd man out a lot and I know that to anyone on the outside of you know my friend group it probably didn't look that way but there was so much that was strange and things

that made me feel uncomfortable and the way that you know people argued or had those dynamics I didn't completely understand because I was an only child and so I never had to fight it at out with a sibling. I have great, you know, cousins and God siblings and people in my life, but no one I had to live with and living in a class that small felt so much more intimate than anything I'd experienced before. And again, to zoom out, it's wild, there's four of us that are very close from high school still. That's nice. Three from my class and one friend from the class above us. And one of our best friends lost her sister recently. And it was, terrible and beautiful and all the things that come along with something like that, a life event

like that. And we were up really late, she and I, the night before her sister's memorial, just like snuggled up in the couch with the dog talking. And we were talking about school and all the things we've learned and isn't it wild that decades later we have these friendships and we show up for each other at these like high highs and these low lows. And some of the people we don't speak to anymore came up. And she said, yeah, but I don't know why you still carry any hurt about that dynamic. You know, X, Y, and Z were just mean girls. They were mean girls in our class. And we grew up and identified that they were mean girls. And we don't hang out with mean girls. And I was like, no one's ever put it to me like that before. And you're,

you're right. So it's a, it's a really interesting thing. I think to be metabolizing in this moment where we're all kind of taking stock of life that there's people who you love and lose, there's people who you love and need to lose. There's people who will love you forever, and then some of the people you've lost probably think you're the bad guy.

And I don't know how we figure out which is true. I think it's all probably a little bit true. Yeah. But I think all of those dynamics interestingly enough for the timing of coming here to do this with you all today are very present because the four of us just spent so much time reflecting on what our lives have been because now someone's not there anymore and we really spent a lot of time talking about this stage stick around we'll be right back all right so let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second

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Oh, yeah. I mean, oh, my God. My middle school and high school sweetheart was my best friend from camp. Oh. Like my best friend since I was nine years old. Did you say middle school and high school? Yeah. That's unusual.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we probably had decided we were in love by the time we were 10. And then we were like an official couple by eighth grade Wow And then you were together throughout Throughout the end of our junior year It's a long time We're talking until you're 17

Your entire life And that poor boy I never had sex with him What an angel I'm like my God Looking back You're like that's the person I should have lost my virginity too But I was like I'm not ready Which is fine

He's like it's been seven years I was like The patience of a sweet saint And, yeah, it was, it was amazing to fall in love with someone so young because it wasn't romantic at first and it wasn't about lust and it wasn't that. It was just that that person sort of became part of my world. They were my person. And then, you know, we had that moment where we were, it was so melodramatic and sobbing about we're too young for this. and we're going to go to college in a year,

and we don't know what it's like to be without each other. And so we broke up, and he was hysterical, and I was hysterical. And, I mean, like, sobbing on the bathroom floor, mellow drama. And I remember getting to school for a trip we were taking out to Idaho, I think, like a field trip. And we were getting on the bus, and one of my friends said, well, the couple of the century broke up, and it was right when in the public eye that said, happened and someone goes oh my god are you guys still talking about brad and gen can you believe

and they were like no and they proceeded to tell the story that it was us and nobody could believe it and it was like so silly because they're i'm assuming there wouldn't have been many other couples that were no you know essentially not you were the brad and jen of your school yeah totally that kind of gives us a yeah and when we got our driver's licenses and like you know he would come pick me up from school and is like blacked out SUV. It was so silly. We were all so into cars, like weird car parts then. All the guys were

customizing their cars. Oh, well, hey, listen, this is a kid's show. Yeah. Yeah, it was like, it was such a specific time. Yeah. Was that around Fast and the Furious maybe? Because I remember so I am not, I am not at all innately interested in cars, like not in the least

bit, like comically so. The only cars I've ever run under Outbacks, Subaru Outbacks. By the way, get at us. That's a free ad there. You're like, not SpongCon, but it could be. But Fast and the Furious came out, and I tried to, like, fit in with my guy friends. And we were all talking about getting, like, Toyota Supras, you know, and getting the tail fin on it.

Was any of this maybe around the same kind of related to that? Oh, yeah. And everyone was, like, taking their turn signals off and putting the clear corners on. so there was no yellow. I don't know why that was a big deal. It was just, it was such an era. Of change. Yeah.

Yeah. Now everyone wants to know what kind of iPhone you have. Just while we're on the topic of love, or we're on the topic of love, I wanted to ask you only if you feel comfortable. For many of our listeners, they haven't figured that out. I haven't figured it out yet. What about your current sort of relationship?

How did you know it was distinct enough that you were willing to like make such a big commitment? Oh my gosh. It's so interesting because my husband and I met a decade ago and had this great chat about books we were reading and totally bonded as friends. I was in a relationship at the time and I say this as a compliment to him.

He just wasn't one of those guys who was like, are you happy with your boyfriend? Like, you know, when that happens immediately, you go, you've ruined it. You're disgusting. I'm never going to be able to talk to you again What a lot down So he was always just a good guy

And then for 10 years We were never single at the same time And much like you said about the industry I've done these long running jobs That are not in L.A. or even in New York Yeah, right I've been isolated In like North Carolina

Smalltown North Carolina For 10 years Nine seasons of television You know I was in Chicago for half a decade which is an amazing theater town, but not an industry town, exactly. I've never really been in the mix. And so I've also never been around anywhere that I live to date anyone.

So I, you know, I might go on a date and be like, I'll see you in nine months when these 20 episodes of television are over. Like, I don't know. It's so hard. And so I would see him two or three times a year. At a friend's party, we'd find out we had friends in common. I'd be in New York for something and, you know, go to a bar with a bunch of pals and he'd walk in. And it was always just really wild.

And it was actually early pandemic. I had been in Canada to shoot a pilot. None of us had any idea. I was going on. I really remember them saying, we're going to send you all home and you'll probably be back in two weeks. And we were like, okay. And we came home and I was doom scrolling trying to figure out, like, of all the people that I follow who are the first responders.

What are they doing? Who do we raise money for? You know, we started raising money for frontline foods and feeding hospital workers. And Grant shared about having a connection to a warehouse in Middle America, a med tech warehouse that had millions of N95 masks and no way to get them to New York City. Whoa. And this is like when morgue trucks were outside of the hospitals in New York. And I was like, I know the Teamsters Union.

I can connect you to some guys. And so I texted him to talk about it And then we were talking about this other resource I'd heard about people making gowns And at a fashion warehouse in New York of all places They just transferred over And so we're sharing all these tips And 15 minutes into this really intense conversation

He goes, I'm so sorry, how are you? I don't think I've seen you in two years And I said, yeah, I didn't even ask how your day was going Everyone's losing their minds And I cracked a joke about trying to avoid having panic attacks by scheduling FaceTime coffees with friends and sitting at the table in my backyard to pretend I was outside. And he said, well, let's have a FaceTime coffee. And that was the beginning of it. And so it's not lost on me that our reconnection occurred over serving community

first. That was really meaningful to me. And as we started to talk, you know, every other day and every day. And then after weeks, we thought, okay, well, we got to go get a COVID test so we can see each other for a meal. And it was just different. And it's such a cheesy thing when people say, you know, when you know you know. But getting underneath it, you know, into the meat of the whole thing as we fell in love, what stands out to me about that is that I knew I wanted things to be different than they had been in the past. And he knew he wanted a different kind of relationship than the relationships that he had been in. And so we had both done enough of the work to go in that I think we were ready for something different to meet us on the outside.

And there's a lot of humor in the fact that we'd known each other for so long, but we'd never seen each other that way before. And really in every moment where something can be scary or something from before is triggered or your anxiety pops up, for whatever reason, we could both see it on each other. And for me, someone who's so good at making it, not about me, making sure people are cool, making sure the crew is taking care of, what does everybody need, all order the day, or all, I can distract from my needs by taking care of other people. And he really quickly looked at that and just said, why don't you ever let anyone take care

of you? And I went, what do you want to? And he was like, yeah, I do. And I thought, oh, oh, no, no. I was like, I was being kind of sassy and rude and you just really got in there with a shot to the heart. And yeah, it was just, it was different. And we did everything in reverse order, and we signed up for like a couple's coaching program

with this incredible woman that she does with people who are prepping for their wedding. And we were like, we've been together for four months, but we think we're going to do this. We have a feeling and we need to know. So, like, we're either going to go through this thing and decide that we're each other's people six months from now or we'll know we're not and we'll be friends and it'll be fine. And she was like, you're very strange, you know, you call that reverse order or uncommon, but I actually think it's incredibly healthy.

I do too. I mean, the fact that we are not, I mean, we talk a lot about this on this show, but also in everything, in our company, Nav and I have a company, we're trying to tell stories. We think a lot about love stories. We don't see anything close to this model of love.

Love is just supposed to happen, like a magical feeling and it has to feel like a drug and it has to do basically just with physical longing and lust like almost entirely the model that you just presented is so sound and can build the foundation

for something that lasts for so long and is so rewarding and incredible like it just it's just it's but it's not anywhere near the kind of idea of a relationship we're shown well because what we're talking about right now is intimacy which requires

requires dedication. Real intimacy, real love is a devotional. It's a daily practice. It requires your vulnerability. It requires you to get honest with yourself about the parts of you that are amazing that you can't seem to own because the world has poisoned us all with self-doubt. And it requires you to get honest about the parts of yourself that are scary or ugly to look at and to trust someone enough to love all of them. And that's terrifying. And the kind of love you're talking about and the stories that we often you know get paid to go to work and tell are about love bombing and they're about grand gestures and they're about you just know and then you never see another person or have another desire again until next season yeah until we throw

somebody in the mix to screw it all up and then you can write about it on the message board it's like it's it's more of a drug it's less of a it's less of a life yeah yeah yeah i met my husband And we were friends for about a year, like strictly friends, before we entertained anything else. And that was the first relationship I had had where we were friends first. And what I had experienced prior was that, you know, there would be an attraction. We would start dating. And then by the time I would really get to know the person. And if we would realize we weren't compatible, we were already infatuated or, you know, in love with each other.

And then it's really hard to tear yourselves apart. part. And I think maybe there's a notion that being friends first is like it will take longer, it's maybe a waste of time, but I think it's the opposite. You end up wasting so much time trying to make relationships work when you're already attached and can't seem to pull yourself apart. But if you're friends, you're not wasting any time. It's interesting to hear you say that because when I think about, you know, I joke that. But like coming out of an all-girls school and getting into our business, you know, I went to, I did three years of college, but it wasn't, that was sort of like my high school. My first three years at USC felt like the high school experience I didn't get to have.

Yeah. And getting out into the world, I really felt like a little hatchling. Like I had no idea what was going on in relationship dynamics. And early on in my 20s, I was in a very emotionally and verbally abusive relationship. that crossed a line into physically abusive a couple of times, and that was something that was so shocking to me, and I didn't know how to process it, and I really didn't want to deal with how that could happen to me. And so what I did for years after that is I would get to know people as friends. And then when I felt like I'd kind of vetted somebody, then we could date.

Yeah. Maybe they'd say to me, I've had a crush on you forever, but da-da-da, but I would wait until I thought they were safe. And it took me a long time to realize that completely unlike what happened with my husband and I, I had essentially analyzed relationships by the lesser risk factor. It was like, you're my friend, we're always going to be cool. Yeah, we can try to date. It's awesome. You know, maybe we're in this place together, or maybe this feels like, Like it'll make sense. And it's not that there's not a lot of love there. But I had to admit to myself as an adult that I was avoiding big risk. And then I realized I was avoiding big love. I was avoiding big intimacy. I was so good at like safe friendship that could be eventually romantic. But I had not really gotten clear on the bigness that I wanted. And the bigness felt scary. It felt like, it required a leap not like a long slow walk with my buddy and and to figure out a way to leap with someone like you're talking about with your husband where you weren't kind of biting time or assessing you actually gave yourself space and patience so that when you realized it was going to be love it was the big kind that was something I really had to shift and And to your point about what we talk about and what we don't, I don't hear people who say, make sure the person you fall in love with, make sure the person who becomes your spouse

is your best friend, I want to be like, yeah, but your best friend, not like a really good friend who you love a lot. Yes. Your actual best friend, a person who you feel immensely safe with and who you feel like you can take all the big risks in your life that you desire to take because they make your life bigger. And I know those are kind of like two horns on the same goat, which is a thing a friend of mine in North Carolina used to say to me all the time.

I like that. Yeah. But they're close, but they are separate things. And that's something that to your point about storytelling, that I'm really curious about exploring now from this. vantage point. So it means you'll you'll never work again.

Unless you're right. Because it's not quick. You're like, they're like, it's not enough dopamine, ma'am. How many pages you want this thing to be? We need 45 here. One Tree Hill was such an iconic show and you were on it for so long.

And it was, was it not one of your first? Like, yeah, that was my first regular job. I remember I almost didn't take the show because I didn't want to miss my senior year in college. I thought, oh, it's the only time that this moment's going to happen. And maybe I'll just do a show next year.

And thank God, my college advisor sat me down and knocked some sense into me. I was like, listen to school isn't that great? Take the show. She was like, get out of here. Go. What? Maybe just like as a frame, you know, a lot of people don't know what it's like to be on a set, but like we also want to get to know you more so what like tell us about maybe one of your best

experiences on Saturday your best day and one of your worst because it's such I mean nine years is like you have everything you know I mean people often ask me oh what was being on gospel girl like it's like well what was college like what is high school like what are six years of your life like they're everything yeah so maybe just paint a little bit of a high and a low for us oh man I mean first arriving there was so much fun because we were clueless and excited and it felt really sparkly and everyone we worked for felt cool and they felt really interested in us and we felt so interested in each other. I remember, you know, Hillary and I meeting and just being thick as thieves immediately and go into bars and being so excited because our birthdays are seven days apart

and we could get into bars legally. We weren't having to sneak in because we were finally 21. And we could go to comedy shows. We just felt very cool. And, you know, reality sets in and you realize that maybe your married 45-year-old boss shouldn't be so interested in the young women who work for him

and that maybe all of your other bosses who are really lovely and whose families you adore shouldn't look the other way. You have empathy because you understand what it's like to not want to get screamed at at work or have your job threatened, especially when you have a family that you have to take care of. But it makes for a very sticky situation. And I think what made it, you know, like the famous adage goes, the best of times and the worst of times is that there were times where we all got to be at work together free and the boss and everyone else was here in the writer's room in L.A. and then the boss would come and it was like, you know,

it was like when you hear people talk about their abusive, like alcoholic father coming home. Everyone would prep for when he would come around. And it was a really intense kind of dichotomy. But I think the sort of ferocity about justice that I've always felt and that certainly Hillary and I share made it very clear.

We were like, well, fuck this guy and if he thinks we're going to let him take this from me, us watch us you know just rage just enraged young women everywhere um i think i found a really good outlet for that in early activism in being able to show up and advocate for people because i knew how toxic it could be to have no one advocating for you and in a way i've had to you you know ascribe that sort of purpose to that environment. And then, you know, in the midst of all that, there were summers traveling to do other projects,

and I was so hungry to work. And I imagine you felt this way, you know, when you work on the same show for 10 months a year, you love it, but you're also really bored. And in your 20s, all your friends are moving around the country and taking new jobs and trying new things and, you know, meeting new people. and we were just stuck in a literal high school classroom

losing our minds. It's like Groundhog Day. So. I was in New York. I have to say like... You guys probably had an amazing time. Sophia, just like, you know, we were having an incredible time.

You're right. You were imagining everybody off doing all this. It was just like, woo, dark square! No. This is what Penn is famous for is. That's not where I think you were. No, no, no. Loving his time.

But on the weekends, you could sort of be in a city, you know, full of art. Yeah, that's what I mean. I mean, it's like, while I fully understand what you're saying, we did have that unique thing of being in this city in New York City. Where are we right now? No, we're in L.A.

I have no idea where I am, always moving. Yeah, and there's many things I love about Wilmington. But, you know, after nine years, you're like, I can only go see the same comedy show so many times. That's not a fault of a small city. It's one of its charms. I just think at the stage in life we were in, we all were dying to get out and experience new things and new people. And grow so much and expand.

Were you playing, were you, what age were the characters meant to be? Were they, were they, were they, high school the whole time? So the way that we did it was every season of the first four years was a semester of high school. Oh, okay. So seasons one and two were junior year. And seasons three and four were senior year. Okay. And then in season five, we skipped college and you came back to everyone moving back to the city for

various reasons from wherever they lived. and we told a lot of where we'd been in flashback. Oh, interesting. It was really fun. It was a very cool vehicle. So you kind of caught up to your ages in a way by skipping college. Exactly.

And so for me, being so hungry to find stuff, I would just say to my team, like, I don't care what it is. Just find me a movie to do this summer. And sometimes the movies were great. Like, our movies are iconic. It was so good. It's ridiculous, but it's a cult classic.

It's iconic. It's just the right level of teen camp. It's making fun of itself. It's great. And then there were movies I did that I will never talk about because they were so terrible that I just wanted to go and work on things.

And looking back, I'm like, not exactly the way to build the career you wanted to have, but it's fine. And so, yeah, to your point, it's a whole life. I mean, a decade. To go from 20 to 30 in a place is... That's phenomenal.

We didn't even have that. I mean, you know, I really... I was just about to turn 26 at the rap party for Gossip Girl and I was 20 when I got it. So that's a time, that's definitely an epic or epoch, what do we say? Epac?

Epac. Are we sure? I don't know. Yeah. Don't ask me. For those of you who are just listening, you missed a great look on Sophie's face. Actually, I love that. I'm an apical face.

It was definitely a period but man. was not 30. I mean, that's like, that's, and I, I know what it's like to feel is that you're pulling your hair out on a, on a, on a, on a, on a, on a, on a, on a, on a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that is an endurance run. I mean, it's like it's an incredible thing and it's also like there are times where it's so hard. Sophia, this is kind of a dark place to go

but I don't even really have a question, but maybe just want this to be out there. I think I read this in relation to your podcast. I think it came up on your podcast, but this idea that what was the network that did your show? Was it WB?

It was WB then the CW. They had done research and found that men liked watching women in violent situations, so they added more violence to the show. Yeah, they wanted more of a male audience because our audience skewed so heavily female. And when they started a storyline of a stalker with my co-worker...

Shout out to stalkers. I'm like, you need to leave the room for this part of the conversation. They found that male viewership ticked up. So then they really pushed that storyline to a wild limit. It's so dark. Because essentially, they could advocate for more advertisers. It didn't just have to be women's brands. I asked the question.

I'm like, why did they? Money. It's all money. Any question, the answer is money. But you know shows are more likely to win awards also if they have a male audience. So there's, I'm not sure if that's what, yes. So shows that appeal to women aren't even nominated as much as shows and content that appeals to men. My blood is boiling.

Well, okay, so all of that is more or less like, that's like not shocked. I guess I'm just like he seems like you guys have such a good thing going it's such a it's like such a such a departure to introduce like halfway through and you know yeah it was it was very strange but we did all sorts of strange things on our show I mean nine seasons at 22 23 or 24 episodes a season they just there's so much that they want to do and and I think there was also a period where you you can see the show shift one of the things that made it great was it was kids and families talking about feelings and relationships and their evolution and their stories and finding purpose. And then, you know, there were moments where it got really campy and wild.

And those were moments where, you know, our creepy boss went from creepy to full power trip and wanted to be extreme and wanted to be edgy and wanted to get people talking. And we were like, but about this? This is really? Like, I've never believed that whole. all press is good press thing and it is interesting when as actors you're on a show

you're locked into a contract you have to do what they put in front of you and that's one of the weird things people don't talk about in our business and I get that people don't want to hear actors complain

because of what people think being an actor is so if you're one of those people too now right now we're gonna just take a few minutes and see you later you can download the episode fast forward but you know this isn't time for a PBR

yeah it's it's not what people think it is no yeah i mean yeah yeah and it was a trip for us for sure but i will say i i love that so many of us on camera and behind the cameras had a lot of gumption and we're really willing to fight you know for our characters and for our friends um our real life co-workers and friends. And we did a lot of battling. And we've, you know, as much as we've brought a lot of things to light because it feels very important to do so, there's also a lot of things that we keep close to the vest because we want to protect our audience and these characters that they love. And we want them to still feel like, you know, there's a saying from our show that One Tree Hill is your home. And we want people who love that home to always feel like,

at home there. And we work hard at that. And if you'd told me when we were rapping and we all were alternately sobbing hysterically because we couldn't believe we weren't going to see each other anymore and like running for the airport in a full sprint, both and if you'd told me that we would still be so invested and care so much all these years later, I really wouldn't have believed you. But there is something special about it. And, you know, we try to carry that with us. for sure. What is that something special? Does it have anything to do? So this is, here's a little

tangent that has nothing to do with the question, but I just want you to know, I started listening to you too for the first time recently. And I was like, one tree hill. This is... I mean, is it not a nod to that song? Is it... Like, I've never heard that term anywhere else. I've only heard it from

your show, which was iconic for so long. And then I see it's in the 80s, seminal YouTube record. I was like, is this? This one tree hill? Are they about the same thing? So every episode of One Tree Hill is a song title. The episode titles are named after songs.

Wow. A lot of songs. Yeah. 187 episodes. Yeah. And I don't know because the creator says no, but we think that the creator says no so that he didn't get sued by you too. Oh, oh, right, no.

So I assume that that's where the title comes from. Okay. But this is technically a controversial issue. I see. You two want some at that one tree hill money. So no. So do I. Our boss kept all of it for himself.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, television can be such a gauntlet. It was so wild. You know what else was wild? I don't know if this ever happened to you guys, but speaking of that era and pre-social media, they sold us to brands and we never were paid

to be the face of those brands So they took one of our photo shoots One of the CW gallery shoots that we always used to do And they took imagery of me Joy and Hillary And they sold the girls To a beauty brand called Caress

Like moisturizer, body wash Like in the herbal essences era And they said, which one tree hill girl are you, Brooke Haley or Peyton? And we were on the billboards and we were in magazines and we got paid zero dollars for that. That's crazy. And they did the same thing to us with Kmart. We had to do a Kmart campaign to pay for, as they said, to pay for increased budget for the show. You had to pay for it. Yeah, we did by being the face. And like people made a lot of money being the face of brands. Like that used to be how you pay your mortgage. And

And, yeah, they just, like, they kept selling us to brands. And we made $0. But my boss bought a new Aston Martin every year. Wow. So that felt cool. I mean, I'm glad to somebody who's better than it. Yeah, yeah, that's great. Somebody's got to see it.

Somebody made all the money. Somebody's working so hard for it. Yeah. I do want to ask, Penn, we can, you can cut me off if you don't want to get into this, but Penn was recently. Gladly, can I just, what should I say? Where were you in? No, no, he was recently in the press.

for trying to, with the creators of his show, create some boundaries that weren't previously there for a role that he's already playing. Okay, good. So it was met with very mixed reactions. And one thing that Sophie and I, we were reflecting on it, it felt like to us, some of the criticism, reflected that the people criticizing feel entitled

that actors should do whatever they're told. And as an audience, you have a right to see an actor do whatever they're told to do. And I just wanted to have your take on it as another actor, who I think also wants to establish boundaries. I think it's one. one of the most fucked up things our society does to people. And they say, you're a performer, perform for me.

They treat you like an object or a commodity. They believe they're entitled to details about your life. They believe they are entitled to details about how you build your family. They believe they are entitled to criticize how you build your family. They believe they're entitled to criticize whom you've dated and when you've dated and what you've ever said. and if you've ever left a bar drunk. And if you've, it's such an insane...

Who doesn't leave a bar drunk, first of all? What's it there for, guys? It is the most insane heaping pile of shit that we throw onto people. And we do it because we also work in an industry that presents this false notion of wealth, privilege, beauty, and access. And that's just not what most people experience. and I think it's deeply toxic

and I will never forget when it really crystallized for me being in a bar I did in the world's defense go to a bar on St. Patrick's Day in Chicago And did you leave drunk? I did not. I didn't even get to get drunk. I had a beer and there was a guy at the table

next to me and all my friends who walked right up to me and stuck his camera like in my face to take a picture almost hit me in the face with his phone. And then went back, I was like, please don't do that, you know, hot. Like, hello, I'm a person. Please don't do that. And he went back to his table and just kept videoing and taking pictures.

And after a half an hour, I was like, dude, come on, please stop. Like, we're just hanging out. We're human beings. Like, I'm not a zoo animal. I see you, I hear you, you know, whatever is my thought process. And he keeps going and he's getting rowdy and he's like, I can hear him swearing. And I finally go over and I say, hi. I'm a person.

I'd like to shake your hand. My name is Sophia. You're making me really uncomfortable, man. I've asked you to stop. I'm a girl in a bar. You are a man. I do not know. I don't want to be videoed on your phone.

And my friends don't either. Can you please stop? And he was like, I don't have to stop. You're in public. And I said, okay, but is there no world in which you can understand that you are making me feel, you're making me feel like a piece of meat. Like I'm not human. And he goes, I watch your show, so I pay your full.

fucking salary you are a piece of meat to me and i just went what and one of his a girl at his table went okay okay enough you really have to stop and i said do you understand that the way you're talking to me and he goes you're just a tv prostitute and it i mean then one of the guys that we were with one of the guys on our crew like flipped out it like it started to get physical between these guys but i mean he meant it yeah and then he starts yelling at me that he's a lawyer so he knows his rights and I was like well this is like a whole other order I mean it was insane yeah that's really really this is part of what it is as a woman yeah and I was like okay I'm gonna go home that's awful like I don't I don't enjoy being in public anymore um in such a greater

percentage than I used to like now I'd much rather be at home I used to love to go out and be in the world. And so I think, you know, that's obviously a wild example, but it's not the first time that I've experienced. It's an act, it's a in real life example of how people speak on Twitter. Yeah, exactly. It is actually. I'm so sorry you went through that, Sophia. It was terrible. I mean, even thinking about it, I want to cry. Yeah. But I really, I thought a lot about you, because obviously we're all on the internet and I saw the announcement and I'm curious about Hen Badgley announcers. Yeah, no, you're right.

She only has sex with his wife. In the privacy of his own. He shall not simulate secrets. Yeah, and I, and you know, I'm curious about people that I like. So after like two days when it was still in the discourse, I was like, let me just go see what people are saying. And it was very interesting to go, wow, so many people really like when men stand up for their partners and their bodies. And then so many people are really mad. And it is very, it's very strange because in one sentence, people will say, well, you signed up for this.

And in the other sentence, they'll say, you know, we're entitled to this. And I don't think anybody's entitled to anything. Yeah. Yeah, you know, here's, I'm also going to offer my most measured take because I'm full of hot takes. I want the hot take. Well, no, no. So I'm actually exercising, like, two muscles at the same time. A hot take will come. It's easy. It's reflex. Acid reflex.

White hot rage. White hot rage. White hot rage. White man, hot rage. Actually, that should be the subtitle of the show. White man? Hot rage. That is the subtitle of you. Yeah, it definitely is. That sounds like the title of Jordan Peterson's next book. Yeah. You know, whatever. To the degree that any kind of quote-unquote conversation has been started right now by this moment,

it feels to me even people who are praising it I feel are almost magnifying also and and I wonder if like we're such a media saturated like voyeuristic culture now in general

it's like we're just so habituated to looking at other people and judging them and not even as like a it's not even like I want to it's negative I want to it's like we're so accustomed to just looking at other things we watch so many stories about other people's lives we go online and like so we consume it we're not we're just

used to consuming it like if you switch your diet your stomach is upset if not much worse you know your body even might change like we're used to a diet we're used to a diet of consumption of people and and so and so frankly i almost feel like in this case if you look at the source material which was on this podcast where what i said was pretty measured i actually was not calling anybody out I was pretty much saying I was actually I was giving credit

to our creator um um I you know and and I was being very practical like I'm not saying no I'm saying after so much

less I would like to do less and it also came after conversation where I was the storyline was already headed in that direction so my point is is that I feel a little bit like the degree to which there has been this like conversation spun out of it seems on both sides to be kind of it's like the fact of my wife has been getting hateful rhetoric in her in her inboxes like it's just like that takes energy like what what i'm gonna just for a moment try and not take it personally it just be like why why why where is this coming what like i'm not even going to judge you for doing it what do you think you're doing what do you think you're accomplishing why are you interested why are you listening why are you listening why are you

are you reading the thing? Why are you watching my show? Why do you reading the interview? Why do you want me to talk about it and then I want me to talk about it? Like I'm, I'm in my position. Okay, fine. I'm learning about that. But why? Why so much interest and focus? Yeah, you're not out here saying, give me your attention and listen to me, say this. You're doing your job. And I've experienced that too. I, you know, I got asked in an interview a couple years ago, which is so funny. I used to get asked about things that are completely irrelevant to my life since the age of, I think, I don't know, 22. And I just thought, God, I never see them ask men about, like, some dumb thing they did, essentially, when they were in college. And I remember saying to the guy, like, you're really going to do this.

We're having this whole conversation about my life. And you want to pull me back over a decade and a half. For what? And I don't even feel like it makes sense. I don't even feel like I'm allowed to talk. about this because every time I do it turns into a pull quote and it's a disaster so like I got to ask you why are you asking and then it turned into Sophia Bush says she's not allowed to talk about and I was like oh my god yeah well that's actually no literally like as of this moment I'm literally wondering about that like Bradley Cooper did something that I thought was commendable um during the press cycle for what's the one star is one Star is Born, yeah. Hey, Bradley.

I think he just elected to not do press. He was at that point where he was in that position where I think he could do it. And I think he said, like, I just don't really see the benefit. And part of me is thinking, like, yeah, I don't know. You know, like I said, I'm not in a fixed place with it. I'm really wondering about how does one talk? How does one, because it can't ever be like a live conversation. You might generate a conversation, but you can't, it's not, it's always one-sided.

That's the interesting thing about it, the frustrating thing about it. And I'm curious about the outlets that choose the framing. Because how interesting would it be if in response to that old question I used to get asked, which in our universe of misogyny and still treating women like their men's property, a Twitter guy in the bar and the universe, now that I'm married, no one asks me, about it anymore. And I'm like, cool. So now that I'm some other guy's life. Okay. I see what's happening here. But thank God, because I've been done with it for literally 20 years. Literally 20 years. But if in response to that, someone had said, when pressed again about irrelevant question

X, she offered, you know, this life lesson. When asked why in the scope of his marriage, you star, Penn Badgley feels da-da-da-da, he thoughtfully responded. He paused. Considered the ramifications. Somebody could make it clear that you were asked and that you offered a human response

instead of being a dick and going next question. Because if you did that and you said next question, someone would be like standoffish, rude, entitled. So it's like no matter what you do, they're going to come for you. And I think doing

what we do, what's lost is, well, I think there's two things that are lost. We tell stories because we're kind of in love with the world. Like if you become an actor, you are sensitive and you desire nothing more than to be in a room and have an emotional interaction with another person to the point that you will do it for 12 hours, which is literal emotional torture. but you love stories that much and we act like we're these like battle-hardened

thick-skinned people who can just withstand countless amounts of arrows launched at us for things we aren't even trying to do and then people forget there's one of you there's one of me there are millions of people

who watch the show who follow on the internet who listen to the podcast what an amazing thing but it feels like a moment to say like guys there's there's one of us can you think about that before you jump into my inbox and tell me to go fuck myself or you say something to our spouses

that's shitty can you imagine how many people are coming at us or them and there's just one of us The uneven weight of what you're supposed to carry and what you're supposed to be relentlessly classy in the face of is exhausting. And then they wonder why people snap. And then when you snap, they make fun of you.

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at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. What gives you hope looking forward?

Because I ask myself this question a lot. It's not it is a volatile time to be anybody it's a volatile time to think and to want to have conversations what do you think gives you hope what gives you hope?

What gives me a lot of hope is the number of people who seem to collectively be awake to the fact that we need to make some changes more people than ever are talking about mental health and I know that's because of the sad fact that more people than ever are depressed but we are in this moment where more people than ever are being more authentically who they are they're telling us what bodies they're in and who they love and what they believe in

and I understand that you know simply because of the laws of physics you know if the pendulum swings one way it's going to it's going to swing in the opposite there will always be an equal and opposite reaction. So I know that that's part of the reason that so much nastiness is being uncovered. But I'm hopeful that if enough of us are willing to withstand the journey to get to the better place, to get to better health outcomes, to get to better public policy, to get to more media literacy and more of a demand for collective fact-checking, and if the people peddling propaganda and misinformation actually get, you know, convicted in billion dollar lawsuits that maybe what's on television will change. I believe there are enough

people who want it to be better on a grand scale, but then that also means we have to be better individually, each of our lives, each of our relationships, each of our marriages, each of our working environments. And so that makes me feel hopeful and the opportunity. for that also makes me feel hopeful in the weird little universe we work in. I'm excited to see what comes up. This is the first year in my entire career I have not been attached to a television show. Wow. Wow. Does that feel good? Yeah, it feels good and it feels insane. I feel like I just jumped out of an airplane without a parachute. And because I've either been developing or shooting or developing during a pandemic or shooting in other country. Like I've just just,

never not been working. Yeah. And I feel really excited about what this moment is going to mean for the stack of pages that get handed to me, maybe next week, maybe this summer, whoever's writing the thing that does some of this, that's the thing I want to go and make. And I just want to, like, make a rom-com to laugh. I miss 90s Julia Roberts movies, but that's a little bit. I totally do.

But, like, rom-coms make me feel hopeful, too. Yeah. Like, we could just make something fun and for joy. And it doesn't have to be, you know, insane. So I don't know. There's the deep hope. And then there's also the desire for some, like, really pure joy. Yeah.

And all of that feels really real. I mean, what's making you guys feel hopeful? Well, I really want to ask This is a serious but totally Unserious question. Speaking of rom-coms and Julie Roberts, is your husband's name, it is Grant Hughes, right?

Now, has there ever been a good joke about that, or is it just all? He definitely has friends who will go Hughes, Grant Hughes, and we're like, oh wow, we've never heard of him. But like, you know, my last name is also Bush and my father is from Canada and I have to constantly, when people are like,

so you're the president's daughter, I'm like, I do not claim those people from Texas and I do not agree with the moves that he made while Commander-in-Chief of the military I'm not from here. You know, it's funny, context is everything. I didn't even, when you said your last name is Bush, I was like expecting a joke about something else.

And then you said the president and I was still like, where's the punchline? Oh, Bush. It's like, it's just context really is everything. That's right, yeah. Two of them. Insufferable as a child. But, you know, yeah, we both,

we both weirdly get teased but yeah he is he is sort of the inverse right of like the he's well actually actually yeah he's the inverse he you guys had a relationship

that is like profoundly real you like found your relationship in service to others like he's the opposite of the trope yeah that's brilliant I actually want to answer your question what gives me hope is a conversation like this one

in person like getting on offline more and more just seeing people in real life because I do think there is and maybe I'm part of it there's a tendency to present ourselves in extremes online even if it's like you have a cause

you're passionate about and then you like yell at everyone else like the other day I don't want to go on Instagram and get yelled at and I don't want to yell at people on Instagram I actually just want it to be kind of frivolous just double tap on the just take the caps off

but I think spending a lot of time online gives me a sense that we're in such extreme camps and we're never going to come together and that makes me feel despair. Yeah. And so actually seeing people in person, I just never feel that way. Even if I don't agree with someone's point of view,

it's never that extreme. So time in person gives me hope. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I think going back to service, I think that's what gives me hope. Spending time in community, serving one another, whether it's within my family

or outside of my family, my neighbors. Spending time with my neighbors, honestly, gives me hope. And I think it has something to do with like being in being with people who you're in close proximity to yeah um is there something really wholesome about that yeah Sophie has some great stories about her neighbors yeah yeah I live in a community that is mostly Guatemalan and I am not Guatemalan but I'm like I've just by the grace of God been like adopted into many families um in the neighborhood so yeah I think that's

That's really a highlight of my life at the moment. That is so sweet. There's a beach ball in your bathroom that I saw yesterday making TikToks. That has to be from one of your... Yeah, yeah, yeah. My husband and I do quite a bit of community service in our neighborhood, in our park. And he, like, works with kid middle schoolers.

And it's like a beach ball that has questions written on it. You throw it around. You answer a question. Yeah. Yeah, I really like that. It's also how Sophie and David go to bed each. night. They just throw the ball around, get to know each other better. Tell us about your siblings.

Yeah. I love it. What gives me hope is BTS stories. No, hang on, I'm serious. I'm not joking. It brings some levity. So I'll kick off the BTS

segment by do you recall. Now, I told this story, I think, at least once on this podcast and somebody asked and I had to retell us I don't know if it's in there

like one and a half times an embarrassing moment of my teens in Hollywood that I can recall was we were all having like sushi or something in Canada yes in Vancouver

like right on that strip you know I don't remember the name of it but it's like that strip right outside the hotel where we all were and it was all of us and we were having edamame and so i had never had edamame before all of you looked so cool like

just eating the edamame like again like it looked like a cigarette and this just everything it was cool and nobody nobody questioned it and i'm just like what how are they eating that what is that so halfway through the meal i grab i go to grab it and i and i eat one and i realize this is already been eaten this is definitely already been in somebody's mouth and then i look down and i realized there's no edamame left, it's only the shell of this thing. And so this is how I learned how to eat atamame, or how not to eat at amame. And I think because, like, in particular, you and Ariel

seemed like these incredibly beautiful icons at the time. You know, still. Still, but... But... I mean, still, but I'm just saying. Like, I have, you know, I mean, but I just remember being like, oh, God, I hope they didn't see. I hope you didn't see me. Did anyone see you?

Well, you didn't, I guess. I mean, as you don't, you don't have any recollection of this, I'm sure. I don't. Okay, good, great. That's good. Settled. But do you have any recollections of Penn? And, yeah, just any, any, any, any, any, any, Tuts, you can share about John Tucker must die.

Yeah, I remember a lot of those library scenes that we shot. and I don't remember what they were about. I just remember being, you know, it was in that school, and we filmed in the school on the weekends, I feel like. Honestly, you were in the thing a lot more than I was. I was there waiting around. I was, like, in my hotel room trying to figure out how to eat at an mommy. Ordering it from room service every day.

He's just like torturing himself. Just quish it. Yeah, I remember, it's like I have a montage. you know of moments like being in that library with that I had like a weird beaded wrap on with a bow on the front of it fashion was so weird in the early odds god just rude like so rude that every terrible choice we've ever made is mortalized but I remember you know being in there shooting a scene with Brittany and then you guys getting called in and I remember watching how far away they had you in holding and like

you're just getting closer and closer to the glass and little doors of the library and thinking like, my God, it's going to take them 20 minutes to get over here. I don't know why I remember that. I remember, yeah, just interesting, weird little chats, you know, walking around on the quad. And I just remember overarchingly thinking that you were cool. I was like, he's smart and cool. And I get excited when, you know, there's a lot of other people who want to, again, get, like, intellectual and a little deep. Like, okay.

I'm not all by myself here. But everybody on that movie was great. And I really remember, you know, we were all in these life moments where a lot was going on. And Brittany and I particularly were untangling some big knots in our personal lives. And we were just really, really there for each other in a season that was tremendously special. And it was an experience that really solidified to me the magic of making most. movies and of what we do because, yeah, it's a little bit like summer camp. It's hard that when it wraps, you move on and then a new crew of 200 people, you know, crew and actors comes into

your life and you can't stay in touch with everybody forever, but you form these bonds and you have these moments where somebody can call you and say, hey, will you come to my office and you're like, yeah, I can be there in 72 hours. You know, you just know that you want to show up for people and I think there's a specialness in that. But to give you the kind of hope that I think you really want, the like terribly cringe story, I've saved this for the end. So remember the end of the movie. It's the big warehouse party.

I couldn't until you said it, but now I can. Big warehouse party. Wasn't I the DJ there? No. I don't remember. How am I the DJ? That's a pretty significant fact. I guess I'm not the DJ there.

I don't know who the DJ was. But I remember that we had filmed it, and they wanted it to end in a food fight, like the cake getting thrown around. And I don't remember if we filmed that originally in Canada or not. But we had a day of pickups. And we did it at Warner Brothers here. And I remember thinking how nice it was to be able to drive from my house to work and not have to go on a plane or through customs. And so we had to get ready. And when we made this movie, it was also the era of the aggressive.

spray tan and Fox wanted all the girls to be very tanned and so we've been spray tan I don't understand why I don't understand either I this is what I look like I'm sorry spray tan as an aside has always felt really weird

to me it feels like a little bit terrible a little bit it does smell really bad yeah smells terrible but also like people making themselves darker it just doesn't sound at everyone in that era to make to look like they had spent all summer at the beach and I was like but I don't

go outside. Anyway. Go ahead. So they had spray-tanned us aggressively during the movie. But after the movie, none of us were wearing spray tans. So they had to like airbrush us

that day. And I was in a particularly terrible many shades of orange halter top that I believe was like knit on the front and a very short skirt. So they sprayed my arms, chest, legs,

back everything and I finished hair and makeup it was like a three hour process with the tan I was in wardrobe and I walked over on my way to exit the makeup trailer there was a hair sink and I walked over to wash my hands because they were sticky and I was talking it must have been to Brittany and looking to my right and I turned on the sink and I didn't realize that the nozzle was not down in the... Oh, no. It's these really strong spray nozzles in these hair makeup trailers.

They actually look like this. Like the end of a mic. Yeah. And it's pointing straight up at you. Wow. And they're supposed to be in the drain so you can turn on the sink. Like, it's a courtesy thing

that everybody does. You just leave it in the drain. And someone had actually put it back in the sink like when it shampoos under your head, when your head is in it. So I said, yeah, you know, and I got showered with water. And Tanner was running everywhere.

Oh, my gosh. And makeup was running everywhere. And I screamed and I turned it off. No, no, no. And I turned around. And this day player makeup artist who was just working at Warner Brothers who didn't know any of us at all went, why did you do that? And I just went, I'm sorry.

As a miracle on 34th Street. I'm just in there going, I'm sorry. And they had to start over. Oh, no. And it was deeply, deeply. Yeah. Sophia, we have a final question. Okay. Is it happy or sad? It's up to you. Yeah, it can be whatever you make of it. I have a feeling you've probably already done this because it sounds like you've done a lot of work around your childhood. But we ask everybody if you could go back to 12 year old Sophia for a moment. What would you do? What would you say? I think my best advice would be to stop. stop worrying so much about being somebody else's definition of enough. You don't have to try to be what everybody else wants to be

or what everybody else thinks is cool. Just lean into what interests you. And even if the people around you at the time aren't your people, if you can be patient, they will come. Thank you. Thank you, so serious. It's so good to see you again. I know, you too.

So happy for you. And this is awesome. You guys are just such a lovely group. You're so lovely. Thank you. Yeah, my therapist said this thing to me that really. And she was like, just because your time is blank on your calendar doesn't mean

available and I was like And that's when you were like Can I cancel this podcast interview? I was like, oh no!