Podcrushed - Sophie Thatcher

Episode Date: March 19, 2025

Sophie Thatcher (Heretic, Yellowjackets, MaXXXine) remembers life as a chronically online, Sims obsessed, Tumblr-using twin, and recalls her earliest moments of success as a young artist making her way through middle school.    Follow Podcrushed on socials: Instagram TikTok XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. My bio on Instagram was singing, acting, dancing, radio head. I was like, I gotta had it. And then I changed it a couple years later to let down and hanging around. She's a great song. Yeah, that's great. Welcome to Podcrushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn.

I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Sitting next to your crush on the school bus, staring out the window listening your radio head and asking him to imagine a zombie apocalypse. Whoa. Just a little voice acting for you. Welcome, welcome to Pod Crushed.

I am with my co-host, Sophie Ansari, and... Uh, uh, uh, eh, what? And Nava, where's? Never! I just turned around for anybody who's not watching. We're sad. We're weeping. We're crying on the inside.

You can't see it, but it's on the inside. I was going to say we're crying on the outside as well. But what we did in order to fill her absence, which is impossible. Yeah. She provides the backbone, the structure, the top and the bottom, and the middle. Where would we be without our Nava? Honestly, there wouldn't be a podcast. So we went and got ourselves another Sophie, a Sophie Thatcher.

can never have too many by the way when i first heard her name i was like there's no way she's not british there's no way she's not british and then when we heard her come on the show she did not have a british and i thought okay all right well actually i technically knew she wasn't british when we started doing research for the podcast but yeah which you did do which is which i were assuming every time which we're assuming i've done um but i was convinced uh our guest today is Sophie Thatcher, an actor you might know from films like Heretic and Companion,

so hot right now, which I'm saying unironically because she really is. It's like, it's blowing up. Also from yellow jackets, I mean, again, so, so, so hot right now. Its third season is now out. We loved hanging out with Sophie and Sophie.

And Sophie will too. Stick around, Sophie. Does anyone else ever get that? nagging feeling that their dog might be bored. And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louie. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day.

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I'm Pulling the Thread, I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to Pulling the Thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts. So, if we can, we'll just, we'll start. at 12, as we always do. I want to hear about the day-to-day your just general life then, but we really also want to hear

kind of how you were seeing the world, you know? I think 12 is such a good age because that's when I was like, oh, I'm an adult now. I'm a mini-adult. And I'd been working for a couple of years. My first professional show was when I was 10 years old. But when I was 12,

that would be sixth grade. I was living in the suburb of Chicago, North Shore, very John Hughes, very preppy, in Lake Forest. I remember not really having a lot of friends. And I remember doing this, like, Disney audition. And I used that as a way to make friends and told them I was going to be on Disney, but to get it. But I would, I was always away. I was that kid that was working. I was doing, I was doing Oliver, the musical.

And I played Bet, I think that's her name, this child prostitute. And would tell people that and the kids were just very confused. I forgot, I forgot that Oliver is technically full of, you know, like thieves and prostitutes and they're all children. It's dark. It's dark, but I was, I had such a blast and I had that community and that family and even just sharing the dressing rooms with the adults gave me wisdom and made it really hard to go back to school and then be with kids my age. Yeah, I know that when I was 12, I was like 12 going on 30 and that's when I was, you know, like, I grew up very fast. And I looked definitely older than I was and acted older than I was. But I think it was like 12, maybe when I was 13, I could pass for any age.

It was one of those like, oh, she could be 20. She could be, I'd people think I was in college when I was 13, but it was because I was so obsessive with seeming older. And it was coming from an insecure place and an actuary place and being around adults all day. But, yeah, I was in and out of school a lot and never did another Disney audition. I was singing a lot, too. Lots of singing.

I heard you say in an interview that at a young age, you felt like you took comfort in sadness before even really knowing what sadness was, which I thought was so poignant. And also made me wonder, like, what did that look like in the context of your family? Like was that, did you share that with your twin, for example, or was that something that was like just, oh, Sophie is, Sophie is that way, like a little emotional, sad. Very, yeah, I think I was just always incredibly sensitive and was always just full of emotions that felt like I was going to burst. So having music, I mean, I was just always, always had my headphones in, still in that way. my bio on Instagram was singing, acting, dancing, radio head. I was like, I got, I had it.

And then I changed it a couple years later to let down and hanging around. She's a great song. Yeah, that's great. But it was, I think my first post on Instagram was that, which is funny. Because to me, it was just my world. And I remember being on a bus. And I was, I sat next to this. guy that I had a crush on. I think I was

maybe 11. And I gave him my headphones and it was what's the song, the the spookiest song on the record, I should know this. The one that's talking about pigs that you're talking about. Fitter

happier? Yeah, fitter happier, more productive. Yeah, I made him listen to it and I was like, look out the window, pretend you're in a zombie apocalypse. And he was like, what the fuck? I liked that was your first, that was like your pickup line. I was like just to come with me to this world.

Wow. Yeah, and I feel like 12 is an interesting time because you start finding things yourself rather than through influence. And I think because when I was 12, everything was just right there. And it was all algorithm based. And I was just on YouTube 24-7. I would go home, immediately go on the computer. is a big gamer, obsessed with Sims. I started making Sims movies.

Wow. Wait, hold on. What does that mean? Sims movies. Yeah, what is that? I was, you can, you can, there are a bunch of cheats on Sims where you create these Sims. It's like, I'm creating a story, and then you can film in the game, and then I would edit in an I movie.

Whoa. And I would get my friends to do voiceovers on it to the Sims. What? That is so cool. It was intricate. And that, hold on, that reminds me that you, I read, I think, that you, that you would make movies with your sister. Is that true? So, so, I mean, so was filmmaking this, I mean, how early on did this, did this proclivity start?

Very early on, I feel like my dad always had a camera. So I think I just kind of grew up, because he had a interest in photography. and was just always taking pictures. And I liked being in front of the camera because I'm a narcissist. But it was a lot of my twin would do a lot of the cinematography. She was the DP. And then we would co-direct and I would act

and I would scream and cry and boss all my friends around. I think, I don't know if it was my 12th birthday or my 11th birthday. But it was zombie-themed where I got everyone dressed up and put makeup on them. We made a movie. And it's great. And it's going to get people will see it at some point. It was great.

Is it true you also studied Mandarin in middle school? Is that true? You did your research. Yeah, yeah. Well, I thought that was so interesting because I went to high school in Beijing and I studied Mandarin there, which is very normal. But I was like, huh? Like for someone who grew up in Chicago or outside Chicago. to choose Mandarin in like the mid-2000s. Interesting.

It's very, I'm surprised they had the option. I wanted to do French, but my dad wanted me to do Mandarin because it's closer. He speaks Japanese and was a Mormon, he went on a Mormon mission in Tokyo. So I was just obsessed with that and grew up, grew up with like Studio Ghibli and everything. So I just wanted to feel a little bit closer to that world even though Mandarin, I mean, some of the there's some overlap. Yeah, there's some shared characters

and things, yeah. Yeah, it's not like you're learning Gaelic. Yeah. We can say there are similarities, sure, that's fair. Yeah, but I don't, I don't remember anything. And then I took French because I was just obsessed with anything French, New Wave, and still am. But

that was when I was, in high school, and in high school, I was so in and out of school. Is it because you were working at that point? I was doing some plays. I was doing a lot of theater, and then I had been cast in like the Chicago Med, Chicago PD stuff, which is like Law and Order, but for Chicago. So that was my introduction to television. We have a couple of classic questions that we always ask anybody on the show.

One is about your first experiences around crushes and heart, breaks. You told us a little bit about a potential first crush, but... Yeah, so just dig deeper. That was a good one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a really good start. I remember kissing a boy when I was like four or five and getting in trouble. I was so obsessed. And I remember every recess, I would go in the swing set with this boy I liked. And I would try to get us so we're matching. And I would like. like talk this whole story and be like, oh, we're married now.

And then we would separate. Oh, we're divorced. And I would just be like improvising this story. Wow. And I thought, I was like, he's in love with me. I'm so charming. But it would never go that far. I didn't have a boyfriend until I was 16 or 17.

I'd never really kissed anyone. But I think I scared away of people because I was so intense. And I was just in love with everybody. I think it was every week I would have a new crush and it would just dedicate I would dedicate everything every move that I made in my

like any time I had alone I was like practicing what I was going to do what I was going to say what I was going to sing I would have these like I'd be listening to Adele being like I'm missing this at the school assembly

and he's going to fall in love with me never happens but can I ask something something that you probably I would imagine this this is a question you used to get when you're growing up alongside, you know, the rest of your family,

but because, you know, we have no idea what she's like. And I have this special interest because I'm going to have identical twins. Like, is your twin anything like you? Is you, are you, like, because you're, you seem so distinct, you know, and I mean that a good way. Like you're, like everything you're describing, the intensity, all this stuff, the specificity, the French new wave, all this, you know, it's, um, even the swinging the way, like the first part of that story, like,

we're married. Sounds like that could be many kids, but then like, we're divorced. It's so funny. Yeah, there's just like you're painting such a vivid picture that I really feel like I'm going on a journey with you. So like, is your twin at all like this? Or is she like, what are you on, Sophie?

No, no, no, no. She's crazier than me. Wow, okay. Which is, I think also, there's something very distinct about growing up with a twin. And I think our best friends and So my best friend, they were a set of twins.

Wow. So it was me, Ellie, Eleanor, and Margaret. And they were twins, but they weren't identical. Wow. And that was just kind of worked out in a strange way. But Ellie was definitely leaning more towards, she would just draw all the time. She's an artist.

She was sweeter than me. I think I was kind of the brap. and it's interesting how we shift and we grew up with the same exact friends I think I was a little bit more outgoing because I was forced to be with my job and which is around people and learned how to talk around people can I ask something maybe that you I don't know if this seems personal but like did you come out first or second I was first and Ellie was C-section so Ellie I think that inevitably was harder and Ellie had

Wow, you came out and then that's really, so I also want you know. And Ellie's left-handed, I'm right-handed. Ellie's artistic and stranger and I'm the actor. This is really fascinating. So just so you know, my wife is a doula and I know so much about birth and birth stories. I know I feel like people who I'm close to, like I tend to know their birth stories or at least I know a lot of her friend's birth stories.

So that's really interesting. That's really interesting just to, to, hear that like between two twins it can be so different yeah no and it was i think 17 minutes something very pretty long yeah um but i think that immediately i mean it just showed that ellie was left i was right um she's behind the camera yeah she's behind the camera i'm in front um and she was acting for a bit too and we would do a lot of i think our first thing together was our town and we would alternate roles or I mean we would we had the same role but would alternate nights um fascinating but Ellie kind of we just went around ways I think her anxiety was starting to build and she was

so so good at drawing and gotten to stop motion and claymation really early on um and I think even just like sounds crazy but using Sims and learning how all these cheats and all these these hacks and just being on the computer 24-7 helped her so much with editing and what she does now. I mean, both of us were just chronically online. I had a Tumblr. I would like lie about my age to everybody. So did she. But that's just growing up on the internet. Yeah, of course. That's amazing. It is so interesting to hear from someone who's a twin. I have to, I found myself, as you're talking about yourself, fighting the urge to be like, and is your twin like that too?

I know, right. I wonder, is that something you experienced a lot growing up as a twin? You probably do like people just kind of felt like not treating you like a science experiment, but it is, I mean, even in psychology in any kind of scientific research, we often research twins when we're thinking specifically about development because it's like such a unique scenario where you can. control for certain variables. No, absolutely.

I think it pushes you to kind of be distinct. And Ellie had the glasses. And I had this terrible comb over, emo, comb over. And it just forced us to be like, this is how we are different. This is how you tell us apart. This is how we are different people.

And I think there's this innate feeling of competition. And it was never, terribly unhealthy or anything but I think we were just pushing each other and because both of us were so artistic and would be drawing at the same time

give each other a prompt and then draw and then compare and see how that works and we're just working together on everything artistically and would just constantly like putting on shows making movies it felt like like I didn't need

any other friends for a really long time, too. So I think there's also innate, sometimes shyness. I think a lot of twins that I know are a bit more shy, and it's a little bit harder to break out of that. Do you work on anything together now? We do, yeah. I directed a music video for one of my songs, and she edited it and did some stop-motion stuff.

But I just want to keep, because she's doing stop motion. She's genius, truly genius. And my older sister is also a writer, director. So I just want to work with all of my sisters. And we have, and we like always are just talking ideas. And every time I see Ellie, we just spend like three hours going through our YouTube likes just to show each other new music just to catch up. It's so sweet.

Oh, I love that. So it sounds like you had just in general an artistic family. I mean, were your parents, they wanted that? Not really. I mean, my dad was a lawyer and really wanted me to be a lawyer. And no part of me wanted that. And I knew that he didn't maybe fully believe in me acting wise or didn't think it was practical.

that my mom taught at Akiva Schechter and still does, strangely, but it's ironic because she's Mormon. Or still kind of, I mean, I don't want to speak on her behalf, but she, like, plays the organ at the church still, and it's very much her community. And I grew up in the church, but I was gone so much because eight shows a week,

two Sunday shows. It was a matinee that, you know, I couldn't go to church. And that was my excuse to get out. But everybody was obsessed with music, obsessed with movies. I have an older brother that is just the biggest nerd and somehow knows everything about music and movies. So really early on, I was, I guess, taught to be pretentious. A blessing and a curse.

So just to be clear, when you say eight shows a week, that means you were doing, you were doing semi-professional or professional theater in Chicago. So what age was that when you, like, really did that? So it started at 10. My first show is The Secret Garden. So that was, you were doing eight shows a week at 10? Yeah. Okay. But it made me grow up really fast, and it's interesting because I don't refer to myself as a child actor because there's so many strange feelings about that.

was never like my mom ever forced me. It was me forcing her. That's pretty clear. Yeah. She knew. She knew. But I think because it was theater, it felt different. And I know part of me, even though, like, my agents at the time were pushing me to do commercials, do audition, like all these lighter Disney things. I just never got it. And I never, I'm very thankful that I never got into that world because I don't think I would be here and it just felt so oppositional and I felt like I was trying so hard to be normal

and that they could all see through my lives. It was this huge existential thing for me where I just knew that I wasn't normal enough and there was something off about me but I would never fit into this cookie cutter world. And I felt that when I was 10 years old, which is a very strange feeling for a 10-year-old. Stick around. We'll be right back.

All right. So let's just, let's just real talk, as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? you want to be less stressed, you don't want to get sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder, I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands.

So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with. The three that I use, I use the, what is it called, liposomal vitamin C, and it tastes delicious, like really, really good.

comes out in a packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that i do it i think it tastes great i use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning um really good for gut health and although i don't need it you know anti-aging um and then i also use the magnesium l3 and 8 which is really good for for i think mood and stress i sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible um honestly you you don't even need to mix it with water uh uh and yeah i just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. The first few weeks of school are in the books and now's the time to keep that momentum

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up the the classic um the classic questions we did the crush I think I think a first heartbreak would be is that is that something you'd be willing to yes well I've had so many I think it was every week I had a new crush I can think of I remember it was always through sending songs

or I would get something to be like hey this and this I remember when I was doing Oliver I had a really big crush on the kid playing Oliver of course

Yeah And and the lead And I vividly remember showing him song heavy metal drummer by Wilco while we were driving to practice and he was like can you turn this off this is weird and it broke but that broke my heart more than anything I was like and that was really devastating and we ended up there was just a lot of drama on that set because we were

a fling but never never kissed or anything because I was so I had so much anxiety as a kid that that would happen. I think my first real heartbreak was in high school where I didn't even kiss the guy, but we were so emotionally involved and he would play me songs from Loveless on the guitar. And I would just tear up and be like, it was very, it was like my first real deep upset. session where it just like changed my, changed my world in like an adult way. And it was all through music. It was all through, I mean, a lot of it was Snapchat, but oh God, thinking about how kids have to deal with Snapchat and they're used to, I don't know if it's still like that, but you can

see when someone opened it. And the streaks, oh my God, if you lost a streak, then that was the end. That was, that was heartbreak. It's a complex world. I actually don't know what a streak is. It's like when you're right, you're like sending each other back and forth and you'd have it missed a day. Yeah. If you break it, then they're over it. The way that they keep you on the app is so awful.

You're so dependent on it. I mean, it would be photos of like. The ground. Just to keep the street going. Oh my goodness. That is insane. I was like, oh, profound. Thank you.

Wow. But that was, God, thinking about that, I'm like, oh, I'm so glad I don't have that. I mean, now you can see on, like, DMs, they're, like, red. Or when people have their red receipts on, I'm like, I don't get it. I'm traumatized. I think it's brave. It's brave to have your red receipt on or read receipt. Yeah.

I mean, I get it when it's like, oh, it's kind of forcing you to respond in a way if people aren't good at that. But I always get surprised when I see that people are still on Snapchat. I think you got to grow out of that. Move on, guys. Yeah, it's definitely for like, it's like for 12 to 16 year olds, I feel like. No, there are adults on it.

Really? Really? Well, actually, yeah. I mean, in 2017, that's how David and I, my husband, David, is a producer on the show. And he and I were just friends. And we added each other on Snapchat. And that's how we became.

No, honestly, it was, I don't think we, I don't think there was like, I don't know if that was such a thing yet, but, but yeah, that's how we, I actually has written about it before. And there, there was a time when I did really appreciate Snapchat, but I'm not on it anymore. I've grown up. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. I've grown up.

Good. Um, no, but our, our final middle school themed question is, if you have an embarrassing story, if you could tell us that. Um, I would always, I mean, it's embarrassing and not. This is actually more bragging. Give it to us. Yeah, go ahead. Every, I think it was like every Wednesday, we would have foot long hot dogs,

and I would always get into competitions who could eat it first. With competitions with who. Like the fastest? With my friend, I think his name was Tate. And I would eat it. I would always win. But one time I got really sick after and had to go to the nerve. because I was getting it too fast

and I think I was on my second where I was like I want to go and I had to go the nurse I spent a lot of time that was also big that my the going to the nurse was like therapy to me

because if you need to get out of a test or anything you put on your actor whatever and go to the nurse that's not that's not a grand story but I didn't ever that's solid though

and we've never actually had a story. You know, sometimes there are repeat stories. There are some things about middle school that are so like universal. But we've never had a hot dog eating competition story. So that's great. So the way we'll segue out of school is like how did you segue out of school? It sounds like you. I finished through homeschooling, which is really. So were you already going to L.A. then? What was that? Yeah, it was kind of back and forth. So I spent my first year at this high school, Evanston Township, which had thousands of kids. I think it's like the second biggest high school in the United States.

So that was a lot. And with a high school that big, they weren't very accommodating to a working actor. And nobody really understood. And the teachers were kind of disappointed me because they just saw potential, but I wasn't there. and it was so hard to keep up. And I was so, I had to get good grades because I was stressed. But it, like, got to me to the point

where I was like, school felt like hell. It truly felt like hell to me. And I was crying almost every day in the halls. So overwhelmed, trying to keep up two lives. So I think I'd book the movie. At 14, right? Roughly. Like, I'm just appreciating the stress

of, like, of, like, a good movie. lives at 14. I know, yeah, but then so many child actors feel that, but I think it was because I went to that huge public school that was like, they do not understand me. People kind of, I was

definitely a loner, totally a loner, had like two friends, but I always got really unlucky with my lunch periods where my friends were never there. So I just bring my computer and bring my headphones and sometimes just like eat in different

classrooms or places just to kind of have a moment to just listen to music. But I definitely didn't. I had my friends outside of school and I had friends that were, I would go to school of rock. And that's where I found people that were also really into the same music. And then I think going into high school, my sister started smoking a lot of weed and I started smoking weed too and it would just give me panic attacks and that sent me to have the existential crisis because the weed in Evanston

it was laced with something for sure I don't think any teenagers are getting good weed let's be honest by the way I realized there's so much there's so much about what you're saying I don't think I've said like yeah

yeah so much in an interview and so long because there's so many things that I have had these same experiences so I went to high school for like a month and then I didn't And then I didn't, so I had some of the homeschooling thing, which basically meant no schooling. But anyway, I don't, I don't, I don't. Yeah, yeah.

So I'm just really like, wow, yeah, we haven't had somebody on in a while who like has really gone through that, this specific period. I'm sorry. It's brutal. It's brutal. Thinking that was probably the most stressed out of that in my life. No, I take that. I take that back. I'm like pretty stressed right now.

But it does sound like that it, that you were being. fed, it sounds like you were also embracing a pattern of life and a way of living that you really, really wanted. So let's, so what took you, what finally took you to LA and when did it, when was it like, oh wow, this isn't just me trying to, I don't know, like, you know, make the most out of life in a, in, in Chicago or Evanston. It's, I mean, TV felt so far away. Um, I, I, had done, so it was Chicago Med. I got very lucky with that. I had done like two commercials. I remember the first times that I were, I was on screen. I thought I was going to throw up. It was like the most anxious I'd ever been in my life where I, it was the first times that I ever

experienced disassociation, which I'd never felt before. But then suddenly I was on camera And I was like, is this going to be the rest of my life for my job? I was able to overcome it. It was just the first couple times. Even though it just felt like it felt like the end of the world. It was so intense and so much at stake when it was just like a tiny little role in Chicago Med. But as soon as I booked a couple other TV gigs just shooting in Chicago. And I think my Chicago agents wanted me to take me.

in L.A. when I was about 15. I think 15 because I'd been doing a lot of theater. And I was still kind of musical theater oriented, which I actually, I mean, I brought up Oliver, but I was such a musical theater kid. And I used to try to hide that in interviews because I was ashamed. But it shaped me. And it's, I'm here today because of it. Fine. Let your freak flag fly. So thanks. But, yeah, in L.A. So my older sister was also living in L.A. And she was doing a lot of auditions, making her own movies. She was just in New York, went to NYU, and then moved to L.A.

So I'm to stay with her and just hang out and try to do meetings. I got a manager in L.A. when I was 15, it's the same manager that I have today. and I don't it was just after that it was just doing endless endless self-tapes and it felt like it was sending it into the void it was a like a couple years of that doing it with my mom and it would end up in screaming matches because doing self-tapes with your mom is very complicated but yeah I mean I just feel when I talk about about it, I feel insanely lucky, but also like sadness for my younger self because I grew up so fast, but I don't think I would be here if I hadn't been so, so driven and so, I guess,

just obsessive, so obsessive. There was no other option, really. I just couldn't imagine my life because school was hell, and I couldn't imagine doing anything like my peers. It felt like acting was an escape, and even though I put so much pressure on myself and it felt like life or death, it was, that was it. It was no other option. It's interesting today because I feel a little bit freer and looser now that I'm in a better place, which is good. It's less like, if I don't do this job, I'm going to explode. You talked about your parents being like a little strict, not so strict, but like, you know, kind of guided by the Mormon faith. and I'm curious at 15 going to L.A. and visiting your sister, it sounds like you were, you didn't have parents with you. What was that shift like? And did it feel very stark? Or were you already at 15 starting to have like more independent experiences before that? Definitely pretty independent. So my parents split pretty early on. And as soon as my mom,

my mom was strict in very specific ways. but she was encouraging with my career because she saw how happy I was when I was doing it. So I think going to L.A. to take meetings. Sometimes she would go. Sometimes she wouldn't. And I had Emma, and Emma's like 10 years older than me. But I think there was trust involved.

And I felt like an adult out there, I have a very vivid memory of watching blues, the warmest color, and then dyeing my hair blue. And then going, do you know the smell, the DIY venue? I went this disgusting, amazing DIY venue. And it was just like such a monumental moment to me and having blue hair at this punk show and being like, ah, my people. And I didn't really get that in Chicago because I wasn't exploring. And I was, a lot of my friends were music-oriented,

but that was a beautiful moment of feeling like I had found my place. It's just so corny if you know the smell. It seems like at some point you sort of defined your, a place that you wanted to be, right? Yeah, I mean, I think even prospects, I felt so, I was really young in that and that was my first, even though the movie when it came out,

nobody saw it, but then I went to Netflix, I went to streaming, and people saw it. I think that was when I was like, oh, I love these genre movies because you get so much freedom, and there's so much world building and story building, and you just have total freedom to start from the ground up. And that project specifically, it was shot in Seattle. It felt so anti-Hollywood. It was such a micro-budget for a sci-fi movie, which is incredibly, are to pull off. I've never felt that level of, well, no, I have, but starting with that and feeling the passion

from everybody, that was the most life-changing experience, being away and just living in a kind of a fantasy world, this strange sci-fi fantasy world. I think that was when I was like, oh, I kind of fit in in this other. other world somehow. And that's funny because I'm doing all these genre movies and now I just want to do something that takes place

in one room and has no monsters or anything. But you want me, you can't have. To be fair to you, though, I mean, I have to say even between some of your most recent, like, companion and heretic, those

are on the outside, you could say their genre pictures but not only are the films quite different i mean the roles are really dramatically different and i mean it's what's what's funny is that maybe it's because it's the most recent thing of yours that i've watched but with companion i feel like there's something of that um that intense like obsessive loving sophy that you were describing in in companion Right? You're just like, I'm here for you. I am here to love you. But that's how I was in relationships. It's so interesting now. I mean, anytime I watch it, I don't even, the robot part I kind of glaze over. I don't even, it's interesting also getting remarks about little mannerisms that I did that I wasn't even aware of. And I think they were just my own quirks that people thought, I mean, I should. should say it was intentional.

So I sound like a very sophisticated actor. But I think it was just innate. And a lot of the, yeah, I mean, the beginning of Iris was very much where I've been in relationships that really kind of desperate codependency. And it tracks with describing younger me, I suppose. But I'm definitely in. definitely in a healthier place now. So it was interesting having to go back to that.

It felt very like I was tapping into my high school self. And it also seems like you must have been doing that to some degree for Heretic. I mean, the connections are obvious because both you and your co-star were, you grew up in. I mean, I'm clearly not. Right, yeah. People ask me and I'm like, I just always question it.

But, I mean, I love, I always try to respect all of my family, too, because they're so, my mom's side, they're all so incredible and still, like, so liberal and so artistic. But, yeah, with the Mormon church, it wasn't, like, anything traumatic, but it wasn't, I was never present or there because I had such a clear tonneigh shows. I couldn't and that was my excuse out and it wasn't totally purposeful but it was my way out because church to me just felt like wasting hours where I could be you know doing something really productive did heretic feel then like and I know you've spoken a bit about this but I'm wondering if we can find like maybe a new angle the new podcrushed angle on uh on uh you know like even this notion that you were you know

anybody going to church to to synagogue to mosque any anybody who of any faith who is or any any whatever it is if you're adopting the framework of your parents you know your family something it's handed down to you and you're just not present with it and it's not you I mean so anybody's spinning their wheels in that position and I'm curious what kind of like was it empowering was it um was what kind of

Because I know what it's like as an actor to take on a role that comes at somehow what feels like, you know, ironically, like a God-given time. You're just like, wow, this couldn't be more perfect right now. And I am clearly the person to do this. So I'm curious, you know, what your experience was on Heretic, especially. And then, of course, there's the obvious great questions about working with Hugh and your co-star and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was just interesting having to go back to that and feeling. Because growing up Mormon, I remember assuming everybody was Mormon when I was very young.

And we talked to kids at school nobody was because of Chicago. So that forced me into the other category that made me feel already felt so other and strange and different. But then also feeling other with your parents was far more isolated. my mom was quick to understand where I was headspace-wise, and my older siblings had left the church really early on. So I had their influence in my years, and I don't know if I didn't have their influence, if I would still be in church.

I mean, I don't think I would be, but that was definitely a huge part of it because I thought naturally you follow your older siblings, even more so than your parents at the time, too, because I wasn't, like, rebellious or anything, but I guess I was rebellious in my passion, I guess. But it was interesting going back to that and feeling that tension. It was a lot of playing with that tension.

And you see it in my performance, and it's the most, like, restrained and intense performance I've ever had because a lot of it, even when it's not the dialogue, it's just a lot of reacting and I feel it watching my performance how much tension I was holding in my body and it felt kind of like how I felt when I was younger when I felt like I was going to explode because I didn't have control at points, which is one of the themes of the movie. And I feel like ends up being a lot of themes for companion and for heretic. It's a lot about control and lacking control and how that tension. But yeah, I found myself getting back into strange ticks that I had when I was younger with OCD.

Just like very specific things. And they amped it up because it worked great for the character. but I hadn't really explored that with acting before because that felt too personal or it felt too negative maybe. But I think I'm far away from it now that I was like, okay, I can bring this back and it felt very just immediately brought back

into that tension and that eagerness to please. And we'll be right back. In the late 90s and early 2000s, Asian women were often reduced to overtly sexual and submissive caricatures. The geishas of the book turned film memoirs of a geisha, the lewd twins in Austin Powers, and pinup goddess Sung He Li. Meanwhile, the girls next door were always white. Within that narrow framework, Kyla Yu internalized a painful conclusion. The only way someone who looked like her could have value or be considered beautiful and desirable was to sexualize herself.

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pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lampy laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum, available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. You know, it was so interesting watching you on yellow jackets versus you on heretic for so many reasons. but one being like in yellow jackets there's so many characters you're in such a large cast and then there's Heretic where it's really just the three of you of course like Tofer Grace is in it he has that lovely cameo um I didn't recognize him by the way I know it took me a second too

I only realized that at the very at his very last moment his wig yeah it's so good accurate he looks so he Mormon he did such a good job and he just he just he didn't He's great and yeah he was The wig was perfect Tofer has Tofer's been on the podcast He he's um

He's uh He has such an innate kindness That um I feel like I could almost mistake him for a Mormon Yeah he's a perfect woman You know Totally Either that or Midwestern

And I'm cool I'm midwestern Mormon Awful What was it like to To be on a set with Where most of your scenes or just you and these two other characters? Like, did you, did the three of you spend much time together offset?

Or was it really just while filming? It was amazing. It was amazing. It was, I was just doing an interview about Yellow Jackets earlier today. I was like, those goddamn group scenes make you feel like such a terrible actor. Oh, yeah. Because you're having to redo it and redo it. And especially if you have one, I'm not going to try to swear.

Especially if you have one line and you're just overthinking it. And it takes you. you out. It's so impossible to be present. That's the hardest thing about yellow jackets. But we work with such a good, talented crew that it makes it so much easier. But with Heretic, I was like, this is so refreshing. Every day I can be present. Every day, I feel like I have purpose. It felt like a play. It felt like going back to my feeder roots. So that was just so refreshing and working with Chloe, I think the dynamic was immediately there. She's a huge cinephile, and we immediately bonded, and I find younger actors that I've met,

a lot of them aren't as obsessed with movies as I am, and I think Chloe is even more obsessed. It's so refreshing, and she's so, just like such a good, hilarious, strange person. She truly feels like a sister. And then with Hugh, it was interesting because the dynamic, in a way, played out where, like, me and Chloe were really close, and we would always go hang out. And

Hugh would sometimes come in, but I feel like I was just naturally intimidated because, of course, he's Hugh Grant. But also, it's the dynamic that's playing out in the script. Always, to some extent, like with Yellow Jackets, the dynamics always always kind of play out in the way they're written.

And maybe it's not always going to be that way, but I think because I'm young and I'm very, actors are so easy to adapt and morph in the slightest ways that it naturally can play out that way. That's true. I do think it's funny that you're noting that because I think that does happen a lot more in your 20s. Yeah, I know.

And I'm nearing my 40s. And I'm like, I'm definitely like I see it. But the last season of my show, I'm now no longer the young. youngest person. Like I spent so much my life being the youngest person and that's really not bad kids for a while. And now I can watch every season with my show like this cast of now younger people. They come in and they all kind of like bond and they sort of do emulate either you know, just that way. Everybody develops a dynamic and then I'm I'm separate, which is also

the dynamic, you know? So it's like it always happens in some way. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I also love your show so much. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I've seen every episode probably like five times. It's so fun to watch. That sounds. Yeah, that is amazing. No, no, no, no, no.

I mean, number one fan. Are you Joe Goldberg, C.C. on Instagram? Oh, no. I think just the fact that you actually watch it. It's so fun. It's so fucking fun. And it's so, I find that when I'm stressed out, it's that, Bojack is my number.

one. Like, I gotta re-center myself. I've seen every episode of Bojack probably more than 30 times just because it's my falling asleep show and I can't fall asleep at a TV show. I'm honored to be alongside BoJack in any way. That's actually really, that means a lot.

Such a good show. I love Will Arnett. I'm excited. Wait, see you guys have a new season, right? Oh, yeah. It's coming out, uh, April. And like late April. Oh my God, that's so slow. Yeah.

It's so nice to hear that you and Chloe, of course, like actors are acting. I don't need them to be close or friends in real life, but it is really sweet to hear that that you feel like she's your sister. Love her. I love her so much. And you two are magnetic together on the screen. I felt like you played off of each other so well. Yeah. And you have the, it just felt so familiar for me, so real, like the two different attitudes that you have. We were so different. It was so good.

It's funny because I originally auditioned for her role. Oh, really? And I mean, polar opposite. I was so very, very different take. And I was just so, it felt like character acting. And I was like, oh, I can prove to everybody that I'm like character actor. But then the other role was far more natural. So I still have time.

And then you got the restrained tense. Yeah, I know. I was going back. No, it was so great. And then hearing your voice come in at the end for the credits was, I mean, it was haunting. It was so beautiful. And I was curious how that came about, like how they approached you for that or how it happened. Yeah.

So the directors knew, I think by that point I hadn't really released any music. besides stuff on band camp when I was a teenager. Wow. And that was all just in my bedroom, you know, fucking around on Ableton. So they had done that, they looked at that, sent me an email when I was shooting Yellow Jackets, and I responded within minutes. I was like, we were going to make this happen. I went in at like 10 p.m.

The studio in Vancouver, and we recorded it. And then we finished it in L.A. And it was just really natural. I mean, I heard when I went to L.A., and I heard the instrumentals they had done, I was like, this is Massey Star. And it works perfectly because it just works with the themes of the movie and talk about iterations and fade into you as an iteration of knocking on Heaven's Store. I was scared because it's such an iconic song and so many people have covered it. And I'm very, I just didn't, I wanted it to be as, like, dreamy as possible. And I love Massey Star so much.

So that was, I think, kind of easy to channel and didn't feel too far away from the music I make, even though it was a bit more like shoegaze-y, guitary, where I'm more synth heavy. Right. That was beautiful, really. Thank you. Is there also you're on a song in Companion, right? Yeah, it's just me humming. But I'd sent them, we were talking about soundtracks,

and I sent them the Rosemary's Baby theme song. And then I sent them the Cannibal Holocaust theme song. And they actually used that, which is a fucked movie, but incredible soundtrack. They used that in the grocery store scene as like a temp. So I felt that was the first time doing a project where I was like, Oh, like they're listening to me. They have a say.

So they kind of built this romantic 70s soundtrack around it following those themes. And then I just talked about being obsessed with like broken waltzes. So I think that was like a step into the head of irises. That's so cool. You're getting back to your Sims days. Simms movies. Soon it will all be you. Acting, soundtrack. I did have a couple questions about Yellow Jack. I know it's not actually like formally linked to the true story of Flight 571, the Uruguayan rugby team. Do you know this story?

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What story is this? Is this the one where they ate each other? They froze and ate each other? Or is this a different one? Yes, yes. So the rugby team. crashed into the Andes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is a long time ago. The 70s, I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I didn't actually, I mean, I'd read about it. And I know a lot of people, there was a book on it.

My frame of reference was Lost because I grew up on that show. And the background on my phone, you can't wait, kind of show. My background, my phone is my dog that I grew up with named after Sawyer from Lost. Oh, yeah. So I were. The best is such a great character. I just recently rewatched Lost because I hadn't seen the final season, which actually was a mistake.

Should have left it that way. No. I know. Everyone talks about it. And I remember just being a kid not understanding it and then finally watching it and being like, oh, this is why nobody understands it. Yeah, nobody, yeah. But that was my frame of reference.

And I actually did it. I didn't do too much research. That's okay. That's okay. We're fully accepting of no research here, just so you know. Yes, we usually do. But with this, it felt because we were shooting it during the pandemic, there was this immersion quality where I didn't want to over prepare.

And there was this beautiful, like, intimacy and indie movie feel where it felt like you didn't have to over prep because it was. all there, that mania that I felt like the headspace was so quick to get into where it's harder now because we're doing all these projects in between.

But yeah, I guess it was just watching a lot of Juliet but yeah, I guess the stakes weren't quite as high the first season. And if my storyline was very much with Travis

and it was very romantic. So that was very, easy for me to draw from. And, yeah, I feel like now this season it's becoming a bit more. I'm like, now I should maybe do more psychological research because it's getting deeper and deeper. And I want to keep it really dynamic. So if we don't know if we're going to have a season four or not, which still kind of baffles me.

But if we go into season four, I definitely would want to do. dig deeper into her psychology because, you know, they've endured so much. It's absurd. Well, I was curious about how that works when, as an actor, when you are playing, you're playing young Natalie and Juliette Lewis is playing the current version of Natalie. And then season three we got to watch a couple episodes and season three starts with Natalie's funeral. And I was just interested like how how do you of course we still get you because you're young natalie but um how do you interact with juliet and do you guys collaborate do you talk um about like how you're going to play your characters because they're the same person we would we would a bit um it was a lot of texting

it was immediately sharing songs um she sent me some p j harvey songs and i was like okay she gets it This is great. And it was just immediately we clicked, and I think there was just an innate understanding of each other. And I think because music is so big for her, and she's such a true artist that I just felt connected to her and looked up to her in so many ways. And I've learned so much from her, and playing her has been, like, such a huge challenge because it's so hard to stay consistent. and I can be very technical with my acting. And I think the first season, there's so many moments and so many lines

where I'm just so hyper-focused on her voice and her mannerisms and wanting. Within the third season, too, now that she's gone, you want to feel her presence. So I felt that pressure going in. But then there was also freedom because there wasn't the constant back-and-forth comparison. But I've watched...

up to episode eight. And I feel really, it's really sad. I feel empty without her character. I feel like the show, you really feel her loss. Because her, the Misty Natalie dynamic in the modern storyline, which is so perfect. It was so strange. But you really miss that dynamic. But, yeah, I'm curious what they're going to, I'm sure we'll have another season,

but what they're going to do for next season. We always have a last question. Yeah. If you could go back to 12-year-old Sophie, what would you do or say? Oh. I mean, I would first of all give her a hug because when I was younger, I couldn't hug people.

I had very, like, I didn't grow up in the most, like, touchy family. So I think that I would give her a hug. huge, huge, like, tight hug where I couldn't, you know, back away or anything. I wouldn't say anything and I wouldn't change anything because I think even if I made any different decisions, I wouldn't be here today. And I think it was just because I'd feel incredibly fucking lucky. But yeah, I would give her a hug because she was so stiff and so scared and so intense and crazy. That's a little bit of a, it's a very earnest answer.

No, it's so sweet. No, I love that. Thank you so much, Sophie. Thank you, you guys, this is an amazing. This is like, I'm so happy you feel that way. Yeah, I'm so glad. Yeah, this felt like therapy. Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavalin, and Sophie Ansari.

Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. Special thanks to the folks at Lamanada. And as always, you can listen to Pod Crush ad-free on Amazon music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. You're an identical twin. I am going to have identical twins. Aw, exciting. It'll be, it'll be a lot. I don't know what to say. I'm like, I'm ready. A lot. No, so I mean, so. It'll be something in another accent.