Podcrushed - Tati Gabrielle

Episode Date: June 1, 2022

Sophie and Nava swoon over Penn's YOU Season 3 castmate, Tati Gabrielle, while Penn tries (unsuccessfully) to keep them grounded. Tati opens up about her life, the girls have fun roasting Penn, and the gang bonds over their shared love of the esoteric. Come to our launch party! We're hosting a middle-school-dance-themed kickoff for the podcast on Thursday, June 2nd in Brooklyn, NY. Tickets here: linktr.ee/podcrushed Follow us on socials:instagram.com/podcrushedtwitter.com/podcrushedtiktok.com/@podcrushedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada I remember thinking at the time because I was like super proud to be able to say that I was half Korean like to say that like oh I'm only a quarter Korean I remember being like oh I'm almost a little disappointed

like for a minute when I was little made me feel like less special This is Pod Crushed. The podcast that takes the sting out of rejection, one crushing middle school story at a time. And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying. And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director. I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher.

And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. We're just three Baha'is who are living in Brooklyn. Wanting to make stuff together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia. Eh, well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for the therapy. Hello? Is anyone there? I'm here.

Good. There's at least four of us. Who's the fourth, your imaginary friend? Oh, the listener. Yeah, the listener. Sophie. My mom. Hi, Mom.

On Pod Crush, we talk about people's middle school experiences. I kick things off by narrating a real story that's submitted by a listener. It's often a cringe-inducing, heartbreaking, humiliating story. Something that happened to them in middle school. But the field was really open from there. We delve into all things. out of lessons coming of age, identity, relationship, stuff with our guests. But first, let me introduce you to my co-hosts, Nava and Sophie.

Say hi. Hi. Okay, all right, that'll do. Today we have a special guest. Every guest is special, let's be honest. Everybody's special. You, listener, are special. This other equally special person, but in a different way, everybody's unique as well.

We're not the same. Is Tati Gabrielle. On this episode, you'll get to hear Penn roast us for five minutes about how beautiful we thought Tati was. No, I totally get it. Every time you made fun of us for talking about how beautiful she was, I was like, yeah, I want to make fun of me for talking about how beautiful she is. Like, shut up, Sophie, and Naba. And I think that was edited down.

I'm pretty sure there were more references to her beauty that our editor cut, so. Our editor is Sophie's husband, by the way. Yeah. So, listener, if you think that Sophie comes off particularly well in this show, then that's why. Agreed. If you're thinking, like, I'm not really sure. about the other two, but man, that's Sophie and sorry. Well, you have David. I'm sorry to that.

Unfortunately, there's some, there's some things about me that David can't fix. The other day, we spent hours in the studio with him just telling me, get rid of the vocal fry. Get rid of the vocal fry. I can't do it. It's part of my voice. That's hardcore. Yeah, it's not, you know, having my husband be the editor is not all it's cracked up to be. Yeah. Lots of emotional abuse. I don't even like saying that. That's such a bad joke. David is like one of the sweetest man i know actually yeah he's tall you know when you meet a tall sweet man it's just like oh geez like check those boxes please he's tall and sweet oh i don't know i have i have space in my heart for short kings too well don't we all but first as always we have a little story and it's a little

one it's a it's a it's a dare i say this story is something of a short king you'll hear more later Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout.

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Louis is my bait. Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby. And I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome, nutrient-rich food, meat that looks like meat, and veggies that look like veggies, because shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb-peelaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it, and he cannot get enough.

So he's a lamb-peelaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with Nom-Num, available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrush, spelled try, and. N-O-M dot com slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Lunan, and I'm the author of Honor Best Behavior and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread.

I'm pulling the thread. I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to pulling the thread from Lemonada Media Wherever you get your podcasts Okay, let's go back a few years. I'm 11, and I have a huge crush on my best friend's brother, Jose.

He's a year older than me, and he's so, so hot. I mean, guys, I'm obsessed with him. I'm not going to lie, L.O.L. Here's the problem, though. My other bestie, Safira, likes him too. And she keeps fighting me over him. Sifera. Ah! So one day, things are escalating.

It's lunchtime. I'm in the cafeteria. Safira is in the cafeteria. He is in the cafeteria. And I'm deep in thought, remembering how Jose's eyes twinkle when the sun hits him just, right? When Safira announces, I call dibs. Oh, yeah?

I call dibs Infinity Lock. Safira's eyes narrow. She's fuming. And our mutual friend, Onon, interjects, You know, dibs don't even count unless you touch the thing you're dibsing. Sefira stands up slowly, subtly trying to make her way to his table. The dibs? This boy, I catch on. Oh, no, she doesn't. I spring to my feet, shove Sefira, race towards him.

I've left Sefira behind in the dust, tapping his shoulder. Triumphantly, I proclaim, Dib's infinity lock. Moments later, when the adrenaline recedes, I see what I did. I compose myself. and saunter back to my table. Saffir is still on the floor, crying, actually crying. Whoops.

You know, believe it or not, our friendship survived the Great Dibs debacle. But weirdly, Jose didn't want to date either of us. All right. Today's guest is named Tati Gabrielle, a good friend of mine,

somebody that I've worked with. She was in the third season of my show you but that's not all she's been in that's not all she's been acting for I was going to say since she was a child but that's actually not true you had a bit of a modeling experience as a child

which I want to get into I did theater as a child you did theater as a child okay so she was a theater actress so she's been acting since she was a child you majored in drama in French at Spelman College but first Tati

welcome thank you for coming oh thank you for having me I'm really excited to be here. This is going to be so much fun. I mean, you know, like, moderate your expectations. Okay, fine. Lowering them now. So before we get into anything else, I just want to know your thoughts on this story.

It's short and sweet, right? I mean, you can even tell in the way that I recorded it. That was a one take. And I just thought, like, wow, the steeze on this girl. When you heard this, were you like, oh, man, that's relatable. I would have done that. Or were you like, wow, this person is just beyond confidence. Like, where did you fall in middle school?

Yeah. So I, yeah, did not have the gall that that girl had to be able to run over and call dibs. I was definitely more shy and submissive as a kid. The first thing that came to mind when hearing that story was me and my best friend, Kay Lonnie. She's a singer. And we've been best friends since I was 12. She was, no, sorry, I was 11. She was 12.

And we just used to always like the same guys as kids. for some odd reason. Always like the same guys. Because you knew the same guys and there were like three of them, right? Right, exactly. But we all have that friend. We all have a Kailani.

Yeah, right. And it was never a dibs situation though. Like, we didn't do the dibs thing because she was always like more confident than outgoing like than I was. So she would always like get them first. But then like my like charming, shy demeanor was alluring and like they would end up coming to me.

That's indifference. That's sexy indifference. Right? Yeah. Yeah, something psychologically maybe not great about that. You got to work on that. I mean, that's not good for you.

No. I mean, I've cleaned it up, you know, since. I'm like, no, I'm a go-getter now. Well, yeah, you're a star. Thanks, man. And your friendship with Kaylon, you survived that? Like, you guys didn't fight over. No, so, like, there was this one guy,

his name is Duran, and we laugh about it still to this day because it was the most ridiculous, this guy, like, Kaylani and I are both sort of relatively tall, and, like, Duran was like this, like, 4-11 dude, shorter than both of us. Shut out to short kings.

Let's not discriminate. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yes, no, very much, like, you know. 4-11 at 12 years old, by the way. Right. So who knows? You know, I should cut him some slack. Like, he's probably a lot taller now, I hope.

And even if he isn't, it's fun. Yeah. I'm doing horrible here. I, God, God, okay, no, I love short men. I, like, support the short man. Support or love? Do you support or love short men? Let's be clear.

I support, I support, I support short men. Hold on. I actually, I want you to go on record saying you are relatively tall because I think people out there in the internet think that I'm shorter than I am. I mean, look, I'm diminutive. It's fair. I seem smaller than I am But people tweet at me stuff like Short King all the time And look I'm old enough

I'm fine with it I'm fine with it No no no no no no I wasn't thinking Just to clarify I wasn't meeting that before as like a personal thing But then I'm realizing actually You know I do get people tweeting at me Who evidently think I'm like very small

And you know okay fine Look, 10 years ago, that would have hurt. That would have hurt a lot. It would have hurt the heart. Yeah, hurt his heart. But I have grown. I've accepted who I am. But I just want people to know that the Tati is relatively tall.

And, you know, if you've seen season three, she's not towering over me. So, anyway, sorry. You continue with the story. I just wanted to put it out there. It was like moderate, you know. That is tall, guys. Just, well, I mean, don't bend the truth. Don't bend the truth.

It's a good height, guys. And you're spreading this information. I'm just kidding. What were we talking about? Durran. I also want to hear this. Yeah. Who's now 6'3.

So, Duran is not 6'3. And he was, like, not, like, looking back on it now, Duran was not the guy to just, like, go after. Like, he was not, like, the hottest guy in school. He wasn't, like, he wasn't really smart. I love you, Duran, if you're listening to this. And so we, like, got into this, like, really big rivalry for a second over Duran, like, that, like, did put a riff in our friendship at the time. Like, she was upset that, like, I would even go for him after, like, they dated and everything.

But I was in love with him, obviously, at 11, 12 years old. And it was a whole thing. And then I remember we had a conversation when to get. There was these steps outside of our school. And she's like, why are we doing this? Like, why are we fighting over, like, this boy? Like, we're supposed to be sisters, like, da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. And I was like, no, you're right.

And she's like, so if y'all want to do your thing, y'all do your thing, like, I'm good, like, we're good, like, but this is dumb. And I'm like, I agree. Yeah, let's not fight over a boy. This is silly. But he's mine anyway, so. Yeah, but he's mine. There's no fighting necessary because he's just mine. We talked, we mentioned this earlier, but you.

were a model at a very young age. And I think nobody really escapes insecurity in middle school around your body, around the way that you look. And of course, you are like one of the most beautiful women in the world now. Thank you. I think, wow, that's a lot. Penn, you have to attest this. When Penn said that you were cast, because Penn and I are producing partners, so sometimes he'll give me like the inside scoop on you. I don't know if we should edit that out. There's an NDA involved. Don't worry. When you told me that you were cast, I was like, oh my god you're going to work with the most beautiful woman alive i remember when i was doing press for gossip girl a regular question i got regular question like i'm talking for the first three

years or so whether i was on radio or i was on like you know regis and um kelly then was it was it i was just i know it's kelly now but i was trying to remember who it was but by the way i met regis which is kind of crazy whenever this was like right before he must have bowed out of the show But I would get asked so frequently, which, and you could really, like, get into this. There's some interesting things in there. But I would regularly be asked, like, what's it like to be working with all these beautiful girls? You know, and they probably wouldn't say women. They would probably say girls.

And we were all just about 20, and it was usually people in their 40s asking us this question. And I just thought, you know, I mean, so I now for 15 years, when people say, like, the most beautiful film, blank. I have my own inside baseball reaction to that. No, no, no, it's true. And that's part of the question. The question was, did, like, modeling, where you are praised and poked and prodded for your looks, how did that affect you? Well, I just want to, like, clarify something first, because I don't know why the internet seems to think that I had, like, a whole modeling career as a kid, which is not the case. Oh, that's so funny. So what'd you do? From, like, the ages of, like, four to maybe I really think it was like five.

I modeled for Nordstrom and Macy's in the Westfield Mall in San Francisco. Just there. Just there. That's still prestigious. It's still prestigious.

Did these little runway shows in the mall. Oh my God. Okay. That's a very much. Macy's Nordstrom and Bloomingdale. This is more interesting than I thought, though. You did a runway show in the mall.

In the mall. So you weren't doing like print. You weren't, you were more like a runway model so you were like yeah at like five a child runway model that's interesting so at six years old you'd spent 33% of your life modeling how do you think that made you feel you know i think it honestly was good at that point it brought me out of my shell a little bit because i was a really shy kid what'd you do with all the money i didn't make any oh yeah you probably got you on some kind of sag after g clause it was literally like charity like

charity fashion shows in the I think I did maybe like like it was like one a year they were like in like you know that like sort of center area in the mall like they would set up a little like yeah like this little mini runway and like yeah we were doing like little little runway shows like that oh that's so cute that's not what I had in my head no yeah all right so um let's just let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk. How important is your health to you?

You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like, you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself. I'm a householder. I have two children and two more on the way.

A spouse, a pet. You know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed. and could see the differences with. The three that I use, I use the, what is it called,

the liposomal vitamin C, and it tastes delicious, like really, really good. Comes out in the packet, you put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it, I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning. Really good for gut health, and although I don't need it, you know, anti-aging.

And then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8, three and eight, which is really good for, for, I think, mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. The first few weeks of school are in the books, and now's the time to keep that momentum going. I-XL helps kids stay confident and ahead of the curve.

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Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Podcrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettastone.com slash podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. go to rosettastone.com slash podcrush and start learning today. I do want to hear sort of your take on like what is your relationship to beauty and like beauty standards as someone in the business with like sort of the eye trained on you partially because of what you look like but then also as someone who at least two people think is like the most beautiful person alive like from that perspective also do you like obsess over it or you just sort of like you just kind of know so you don't have to worry about it.

person in the world. Well, that she's beautiful. I just don't worry about it. Like, she knows she's beautiful. I just know that I'm the most beautiful person in the world. So I'm the one you're all afraid of. The one who has no insecurities. Usually the people who are, their beauty is talked about the most.

It's the most pressure or like. Well, for me, like, and this actually started for me, like in, or this like, I guess, relationship to beauty started for me in middle school of like, when I was little, I always thought that I was just funny looking. I didn't think that I was ugly. I didn't think that I was pretty. I just thought I looked funny. I just thought I looked weird.

Like, I just thought I looked kind of alienic. Like, when I would look in the mirror, I knew I didn't, like, or I felt like I didn't look like other girls or like girls that I thought was pretty. And so even still now, like, I do feel like a sort of sense of pressure to meet a certain, especially with Instagram and everything else. But like, then that pressure is like quickly like, is the word I'm looking for subverted? Yeah, like by like, then me going like, no, that's just silly. Like, all of the stuff.

that I see on Instagram and all of that, like, I don't want to look like that. Like, I don't want to, like, feel that I need to conform into, like, man's box of what is beautiful. Most of the dudes that I talk to anyway, like, most of my guy friends are always, like, natural beauty is way more attractive than, like, made up beauty. So, like, when it comes to makeup and all that, like, I don't wear a lot of makeup. Like, I'm not wearing makeup. I have, like, I do these little dots on my eyes. and, like, that's about it. Like, like, I'll wear mascara occasionally,

but, like, I try to, like, really push myself to be able to be comfortable in my own skin, like, and even on days when I don't feel as beautiful or as, like, lava boom as, like, some, like, girls that I see. Like, I'm just like, you know what? Like, that's... I'm just me then. Like, if people find that beautiful, then amazing.

Like, and if they don't, like... everybody has their own, you know, vision or standard of beauty. And I'm not going to try to fit every one of them because that would be stretching myself too thin and ridiculous. How about you guys? Like, what is your take with it? As a kid, I was praised often for how I looked. And I think that had a negative, like an adverse effect on insecurity. I think the more you're praised or like talked about or different parts of your body are the more you think about it i feel that yeah and then i think into adulthood i mean it continued i feel like i definitely had some kind of like i don't know actually which term is the correct one body dysphoria dysmorphia the one you know i just like look back

at photos of myself and i remember how i thought about my body and how i thought about how i looked And it was so awful. People talk about like self-hatred. And I'm like, I don't get it. How do people hate themselves? I've never felt that way. And then I like think retrospectively and look at a photo of myself. I'm like, oh, I hated myself. I looked beautiful. How could I have thought that way about myself? And there's just like these subtle like, like a inner monologue that is playing in my head. But I feel like getting married was a huge help because I didn't have to think really about what other men were thinking about me, how they were perceiving me. And it allowed me to just feel like there's this other person who just cares about me and thinks I'm beautiful. And

in one way, I hate that that had to happen. I hate that I had to feel the validation from just one person in order to like feel it about myself. But yeah, whatever, many roads. I don't know. What about you, Neva? I think what I would like to strive for is body neutrality. Like I just don't want to think about it. I don't want to be like super positive or negative. I think it's wasteful to to be super concerned about it. But I do think about it a lot. And when I was younger, I was like so insecure. But it wasn't just in my head. Like I grew up in Puerto Rico. I'm half Persian, half American. I look Latina. So I didn't look totally different from other kids, but I looked different enough. And people would talk about it and like not always kindly. So I was also like getting

reinforced like a certain message, I guess. And then in college and like late high school, I started to get a lot of positive attention, and that was, like, overwhelming because it was I had gone from, like, people, like, criticizing my looks to, like, suddenly, like, a completely different message and, like, harassed and, like, assaulted a few times. And so that also wasn't great, you know? And now I'm, like, I think what I care about most is youth. Like, more than weight, more than whether someone thinks I'm pretty or not, it's like, do I look old? But it's still, like, thinking about it. So I wish I wouldn't, but I definitely do. Well, I have a question to that first novel, do you, do you guys believe or submit to the, like, the idea of, like,

you're as young as you feel? No, I guess I feel like I'm as young as I look. It's terrible. Do you think? I wish that I were, I'm as young as I feel, but I know. I've met so many, like, people in their, like, 50, 60s, 70s that, like, have this youthful spirit. And it, it's almost as if that sort of comes out of them and they look like so young because of this like and or at least that's what I attribute it to of like you look this young because you've always had this youthful exuberance like that has like that your body can even feel from I'll get very philosophical here with from like a cellular level and so like that I feel like is stopping any aging from like wrinkles whatever happening

like when you tell yourself or if like you keep the idea of like I yeah like I feel young like therefore I am like I feel like that that can come through anyway that no I mean that definitely seems like the case and then I think also like there are people who you know plenty of us in the world who are who just end up looking pretty old as you get old but can still feel great you know and I think that's like what we're I don't know I mean what it seems like we're really trying to get at is we are we are a body and therefore age obsessed culture like i mean i mean i mean when i think of the trillions of dollars that have been poured into advertising over the over the last century to make women and men feel bad about aging well particularly women i guess i mean you know

so we have those things that we have to overcome but then i but i also feel like my experience of maturity is that everything just gets better because you you have you have to overcome but then i but i also feel like my experience of maturity is that everything just gets better because you have more of an understanding. I mean, look, to me, a greater understanding just means that everything can become lighter. For me, I feel lighter and lighter as I get older.

See, I mean, like, I'm not afraid to get older, but, like, I've been, like, fed this thing of, like, like, for example, I have women, like, older than me telling me all the time, like, oh, appreciate it now, girl. because when you hit 30, it's all going to, you're going to lose all of it. And it's like, oh, my God. 30's so young. Okay.

Right? And that also then helps, like, when I look in the mirror and I have days when I, like, don't feel like it, like, or like, I try to. The most beautiful person in the world? Yeah. I don't feel like the most beautiful person in the world. Which is like every other week, like there's maybe three days. Leave me alone, man.

Yeah. But no, like I. He's just salty because we've never said he's the most. handsome man on earth. I'm actually, I'm really throwing more shade at my co-hosts. This is actually all... No, I know. That is all directed to tell us.

It's not to you. We get it, Penn. Well, like, Penn, know that one of the most, like, most common questions I get when it comes to you is always, like, how is it working with, like, the most handsome man in the world? Like, how is it working with Penn? I swear to God. I swear to believe it. So, how is it working with, like, the hottest man? And I'm like, I don't know if you knew this, but Penn is a heartthrob.

If people knew, if people knew. I can't handle it. Penn is my brother. Penn and I are brother and sister at this point, and I can't handle it. But that's the, yeah. I mean, that's also the thing is that right now, let's be real. My whole, like, vibe in the out there in the public sphere is, like, peak whatever it is. It's never been more than what it is right now.

But it's such an idea. Yeah. It's like anybody who knows me. I mean, knows it's just laughable. It's laughable. I so often, even just by beauty standards that I seem to exhibit on camera and stuff, in person, there's plenty of times. I do legitimately look bad. Like, my wife and I joke all the time. It's just funny, though, sometimes what you know people think is the life that you're living. It's like, you know, you're waking up at five in the morning with a kid who's barely slept overnight and you, like, glanced in the mirror a few hours later when you've had a sip of water. and you just look like there's no it's like anybody who saw you would be like man you need to take a break and it's like but it's just funny so my wife and i will joke sometimes when i look particularly disheveled and i've really not shaven and i'm wearing something that it's like like she does not want me to leave the house looking like that i'll make jokes about being famous and i don't know i mean there's something interesting about experiencing fame because fame is very much connected to what people believe is true about wealth and physical beauty which is that it will

make you happy we all say maybe that money can't buy these things but we all believe it we it's it's very much indoctrinated in us and it's just kind of interesting to be uh among this group of people that experiences that and then you're like wow i mean you know when you're at your lowest if anything it magnifies your feelings of inadequacy yeah if anything it's like wow i have the thing that everybody wishes they had and if i feel this way that must mean i'm lesser than even those people And you imagine everyone else being happier, you know. Interesting. I liked what you were saying, Tati.

I feel like my dad is like that. He looks a lot younger than he is. And he's like, he's just always been really youthful. He has like a joie de vivre, which has like always. Yeah, has like always permeated. He's always telling jokes and laughing. He's a joke teller. He's a joke.

We got to bring him on a podcast. Just to like tell jokes. Please. I don't hear this man now. So he has that, he has that energy. He's 77 and he looks like he's. Oh, no, he just turned 78. He looks like he's in his 60s.

And the other days, someone guessed that he was 70 and he was really upset, even though he was eight years younger, because, like, no one had ever guessed that he was in his 70s from, like, just meeting him. But anyway, I think that that's, like, great. And I'm happy for my dad that he has that. And I think that if, like, a 77-year-old looks 77, like, that's okay, too. Like, some people are going to look their age. Yeah.

So I was thinking, even, like, right now with, like, J-Lo, she's so gorgeous. People always, like, see, women in their 50s can be incredible. But, like, I hope in my 50s, I don't have to look like that. I mean, I don't look like that now. You know, like the amount of work that goes into that, the resources that make that possible and the genetic gifts that she was blessed with is not what most women in their 50s have. And I hope that there's also not a pressure that like that's what it means to be 50 now. It's like, you know, six pack, perfect, you know, everything. It really helps me to think about people I love who are in their 60s. Usually it's my parents. And I think my mom is the most beautiful person. And I would never think about her the way I sometimes think about my And it just helps to like reframe sometimes for me. It's like she's beautiful and amazing and wonderful. And I'm sure that's the way other people will think about me. You know, sometimes you get like so caught up in the negative talk to yourself. And it's, it's helpful to just like think about

how you think about other people and realize that's probably how they're thinking about me. My mom is so hard on herself when it comes like her age. Since she was, since she turned 50 and my mom's 65 now. 64, sorry. She'd be really upset about that. Sorry, Mom. Sorry, Mommy. Anyway. So, when she was like, so recently my mom just like,

like she'd been dyeing her hair. Like, I had been pushing her for years before that to be like, Mommy, just let your gray go because she's like this beautiful, like, silver gray hair. And like, she's like, no, because I don't look old and fat and blah, blah, blah. I'm like, Mommy, you're beautiful. And, like, one, you do realize that, like, every girl my age wants gray hair for, like, and we, like, it's a thing.

And I'm like, I can't wait to get older and, like, age, like, fine wine and, like, have, like, yeah, and have, like, silver hair and, like, and pop and wrinkles and, like, being like, yeah, I'm an old lady and I'm loving it. So, like, yeah, and so what you're saying, so if you like, it's like, because I look at, like, older women, And I'm like, oh, wow, you're so gorgeous and, like, getting gorgeouser. It makes me excited to get there. We wanted to ask you about growing up in a multicultural home and being part of two distinct minority groups in America, what that was like for you and sort of what you draw from both cultures. It was very interesting with my parents because while, so my mom is Korean and black, my dad is black. My mom didn't know she was half black until she was like 40. Because if you looked at her, you wouldn't be able to necessarily tell.

And, you know, her family that adopted, my mom's adopted also too, which was a big thing. And she did a DNA test and found out she was half black. But she was raised by a black family in Virginia. Wow. Yeah, it was, and it's really trippy to like see the pictures of her and like her cousins and stuff when she was little. because it's like all these little black kids and then like this little like Asian doll on the end because like my grandma used to dress her every day

and like doll dresses and Mary Jane's. Yeah, like all the time. And so like my mom was essentially raised black. Though she had like her own, you know, struggles and experiences growing up, like especially growing up in a black community and not looking black and very much did embrace her Asian.

culture and heritage and made sure we knew that we were Asian, but she could necessarily give us Korean specific culture because she was something that was foreign to her even. She just pushed the Asian narrative. So like if you walk in my house, like at home, like there's Asian decorations everywhere. I did karate as a kid growing up, but there was nothing that she taught us anyway. That was like Asian specific, though there was a lot of things that as I found, like, realized as I was getting older, that genetically and culturally came through for her, like, certain standards that are in the Asian, like, the standard of, like, education and, like, school is the priority, like, and how strict she was about that. Or, like, reputation

and, like, presentability. Like, my mom was, like, we could not walk out the house without looking, like, presentable without looking, like, together. Like, if we did not represent the family, well like that was a problem yeah like and so like those things coupled with like you know my dad like grew up was from ohio and like was a very old school black man i love my daddy i grew up a daddy's girl like um and had very like set views of the world and also had this sort of complex i would say like as a black man in america and the things that he had to go through he was always really oddly scared for me and my brother and sister of our experience through the world because my dad also I think had due to his trauma of what he had experienced wasn't updating the world as it was

updating and evolving with the world and so just assume that we would have like just as bad of a life and even harder because we were mixed race while my mom was like very coddling as like a kid and always tried to give us what we wanted like always try to make sure that we were happy my dad was definitely the enforcer and like the like trying to make us like build backbones for us so that when we stepped out into the world

we would be good regardless so yeah I feel like I've gone off on so many tangents but it was interesting growing up in a multicultural home because like it was the the multicultural aspect of it was sort of just like an air over everything but it wasn't necessarily like specific but just my mom pushing us to like you know your career and make sure you know that be proud of it and like as you get older you know you guys

seek to find more of that culture and learn more about that culture which we have done and it was always something that I leaned toward and was proud of like I did start experiencing somewhat of discrimination like when I got into college or just like understanding that I was different Because growing up in the Bay Area of California, like, is a very multicultural place, like, a very diverse place. And, like, going to school in Atlanta, like, and going to an all-black school at that, like, is when I started getting comments from, like, my friends and things that they would say it with jokes. But, like, I was like, that's kind of mean of them saying to me, like, in conversations or when we were having discussions about things and I would make my input and they'd be like, ah, Tati, you don't count. And I'm like, wait a minute. Like, technically, I'm more black than I am Asian.

So what do you mean I don't count? Like, because I have like a portion of something else, like that I'm not able to be a part of this conversation or feel the same things that you all do. So that became an eye opener for me as I got older. And like, so not only of my own experience as a mixed race kid, but to the ways that the world were working. This is all really meaningful. One time I listened to a podcast, oh, what was it called? Don't name it. Don't name it. They've got to give us money.

Oh, sorry, okay. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Say it twice. And it was a whole episode about mixed kids. And I was like, oh, my God. And I remember sending that episode to so many friends. Because I feel like as a mixed kid, you don't often have those conversations. I don't know. Where you grow up. It depends who you grow up around. But yeah, my friend is a musician, Ben Zadie, and he's mixed and he just wrote this song. There's a line in it. It's like the most beautiful song that says like being mixed is a mixed blessing in a world that makes you choose. I feel like it, yeah, being mixed, you're always, you're never enough of one thing or another. And people will like assign like a race to you or an ethnicity. And that will be their true. And so they'll make assumptions about you based on that. But other people will have made the opposite assumption.

And I am wondering, like we kind of glossed over it a little bit, but your mom finding out that she's actually half black when she's in her 40s, what was that like for your mom? What was that like for you? I like, I mean, I was so young like with when like when my mom found out that I don't, I don't know necessarily fully how it affected her. But now when we talk about it, I don't. I think that it came as a shock, but not a surprise, if that makes sense. At that point, she had been raised by a black family. So I think if anything, it sort of made her feel closer to them. Yeah, like affirmed something.

Yeah, and empowered a part of her, I think, in that way. And for me as a kid, I remember thinking at the time, because I was, like, super proud to be able to say that I was half Korean, like, to say that, like, yeah, that I'm like, oh, I'm only, a quarter career? But like I remember being like, oh, I'm almost a little disappointed. Like, it made me feel like I was less mixed. Like for a minute when I was little made me feel like less special. But then like, and as I got older and like how I feel now is like the level of it doesn't even necessarily matter to me anymore. Like, because it's like I know that both show through

on my face and I carry both equally no matter what percentile I am of either. I. I have a friend who is part black, part Palestinian, part Iranian, and people will ask her like, well, what's the makeup? And she won't say, because she's like, I don't want to play into that. Right. It feels weird to start, like, talking about percentages of blood. Right. Maybe we're getting kind of close to something we don't want to go back to.

And I don't want to talk about it. Yeah. And I really respect that. I think that that's cool. Yeah, because it makes me start to think of, like, the whole one-drop rule. Yeah. Which, like, we don't want to go back to. that or like start putting that sort of stigma on it of like oh like okay you're a piece of like

why does it matter how much of either that I am I'm both yeah yeah I feel like I feel like that conversation as as intellectual and scientific as it can potentially get it's like we have to remember that race is a social construct is very different from ethnicity and the way we value ethnicity and race is different and as a person trying to understand whiteness as a phenomenon because I think that that onus really is on white people to to think of ourselves not not as onlookers to the phenomenon of race, but like the whole point of whiteness is that it's like a faux universality.

You know, that's what supremacy is, is to believe that you're like, well, we're the ones who don't have to think about it. It's like, no, you have to think about it more, or at least as much. And it's, like, really important that we always hold true. Race is a socially constructed, modern human idea.

It's not the same as how you look. It's not the same as what's in your blood. I mean, because what's in our blood is like we're all essentially the same, like very, very much the same, like, very, very much the same. Because we even share, like, something like 60% DNA with trees or something like that. I mean, you know, check that, check stat, fact check. We're going to need a fact check at the end of the... But, you know, we all do come...

I mean, all of the biodiversity on life comes from the fusion of two simple cells, like billions of years ago. So all I mean to say is that, like, clearly we're all trees, right? Is what we're... Right. My 23 and me is that I'm an orchid. That's beautiful. It depends on how you define beauty. I don't know.

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spelled try-n-O-M dot com slash podcrushed. Growing up, did you have any sort of Like, did you grow up with any spiritual practices and what does that look like for you now? I was raised Baptist Christian and like I had always believed in God, but I remember with the idea of church, like, that was something that was very odd to me, the way that they would speak of God as this punitive being that loves us so much. What really broke it for me and it was the moment that I was like, no, I'm not going to call. myself Christian. I don't, because I can't align with this. My brothers is gay. Um, and he came out at 14. And the way that my parents reacted to it, particularly my mom, my mom really pulled the religion card on him. Um, she's got a very different relationship with it now. They're all good

now. Um, but at the time, she pulled the religion card on him and she went into this horrible depression for three days, like did not come out of her room. Like, it was, kind of really hard. And I remember thinking of that, I was like, well, no, I don't want to align with something that is going to say that I'm not supposed to love my brother or that my brother is an abomination. And so then that started to shift my course of spirituality. And I don't really state a claim to anything. I just say that I'm spiritual because my understanding and relationship to God, I've kind of formed my own philosophy through the years as I've learned from different religions, particularly Buddhism, Taoism, and Grosopharianism. And now I'm learning more about the

Baha'i faith as well. But I've taken different philosophies and sort of doctrines from different religions that I have heard and thought, like, that makes more sense or that sounds right, that down like that resonates and and feels more real than older ideas and i'm a very much a person that believes in the metaphysical that like that we are beyond just the five senses that we can tangibly experience the idea that like hunches happen or that your gut feeling towards something or when you feel like a vibe from someone sounds like you're describing like intuition or spiritual perception yeah and like so as i just kind of like experience these these things and are informed by them like my spiritual perspective, like continues to shift and evolve.

My pursuit now is exploration and discovery, not to find the end or the answer because I fully, yeah, have a signs of being like, okay, there is no, I will never find that. None of us will ever find that. We don't know why we're here. And I also believe that each individual person has a different purpose of why they're here. There's a quote that I really like, Tati, that says something along the lines of like, every age has its own needs and every soul, its particular aspiration, which I think is such a great idea that, like, you live in a time where there are general needs, like, and it's

different. Like, right now, you could say we're in a climate crisis and we all need to be thinking about how to protect our very, like, existence on the planet, and that affects every one of us. And it's a time to, like, overcome prejudices. And it's a time to, like, learn about more fair wealth distribute, right? So there's, like, certain generational needs that are, some are, like, particular to being alive in 2022. But then, like each one of us has a particular aspiration that's unique. And I think that that's very beautiful that like those two things can both be real. Agreed. Agreed. Very much so. Like I always wonder like, is the meaning of life maybe just like something so simple like as like for all

of us to just like love one another? Like it's such a hippie. I know it's a very hippie thing to feel or thing. But like, is it so true. Is it that the meaning of life is just to find connectivity? Like, yeah, I'm obsessed with near-death experiences and like watching people talk about their near-death experiences. And last night, I just saw like a video came up on TikTok, of course, and where I get all my spiritual answers. But all of my NDEs on TikTok. You're an N-D-E junkie.

No, but this woman was talking about her near-death experience. It's called an N-D-E, by the way, for all of you nobs. And she said that one of the things that she came to understand in, like, the few minutes that she was, like, technically dead was that there's this oneness that we're all connected to. Yeah. And she, like, went back to that oneness when she died, like, became part of it again. Yeah. And that really resonates for me. I imagine, like, a huge, like, web.

Like, you know, have you ever seen those, like, the old screensaver for, like, I don't know, if I'm when he said the old Macs, maybe, yeah, that, like, had this, like, morphing, like, thing, like, that, like, that's what I literally imagine, like, all of the spirits and things of the universe to all be. Tati, on an aside, I wish that you would make a small video of your hand movements because it was so beautiful and entrancing. It's like, I want to, like, watch this to fall asleep. It's like something a bad way. I wish people could see what she's doing This is the purpose of life Also seen on an

1981 screen saver That's how I make my little nephew go to sleep Did you see pen? I'm doing the butterfly Or is this a bird? This is a butterfly This is why people

with atheist backgrounds and belief and science and reason think all spiritual people are idiots is because of what we're doing right now. They can't see that. Makes no sense, no consistency whatsoever. You can't found a society on it. I agree. We do have a final question that we ask everyone, but before we get to it, does anyone else want to ask Tati?

One more question, or is there something you wish we would have asked you that you'd like to just share? Where do we donate to Tatiism? Yeah. That's what I want to know. I'm getting, I'm starting a kick, a Kickstarter, is that? Yeah, sure. I wouldn't recommend it for a religion, but, you know. And it's coming soon.

Coming soon. Where the dogmas being constructed. Tati, we usually do like a post show reflection on the guest, but I'm just going to say this in front of you. It's very interesting to me that the two iconic roles, I mean, I know you've done several things, but you're like iconic for Prudence and for Marianne. And they were both kind of cold characters. and you're so warm and like... Just wait.

Just wait. Like the opposite. It's just really interesting. I mean, it's interesting to me too and I don't understand always why that. I'm like... So I remember after like, Sabrina, like people would meet me

and think I was going to be a bitch. And I'm like, oh, that's so sad. Like, no. Like, no. Like, people would be afraid to approach me because they already assumed that I was going to be an asshole to people. And I was like, I'm not my character, guys.

And like, yeah. Yeah, like, I'm happy that Marianne is more, has more like empathy and love and like is infused more with that so that people at least know that Tati's nice guys my Wikipedia says which I learned when I was asked to read it for this press

thing it says known for his portrayal of I think creepy something and I don't know when you ask Tati that question I was like yeah I wonder what that's like and then I was like yeah that is interesting that she's known for this because I didn't know

that you're really known for that in fact what novice first said was prudence which is evidently a name of a character I thought she was saying being prudent and I was like I was like wow where's this where's this going and then by the end of the question I realized

I'm also known for playing typically like like sort of sociopathic really what's the word like people who betray people like betrayers anyway that's that's what I'm more and more known for and do you think you guys

could help Yeah, he's like so... I mean... That's where we go to the music. That's where the podcast music comes up. No, Penn's not like that at all. That's why we're doing this podcast to clear his name.

I mean, if it's any consolation, every time that I'm asked, I sing you praises always about how wonderful and generous and, like, just a good dude you are. No, it's true. He really is. I will say this about Penn because I don't know why people would know this about him,

but I think everybody has like three virtues or qualities that they, like, exhibit really highly. And I think one of Penn's is generosity. He's one of the most generous people I've ever met, to a degree that it, like, sometimes makes me cry when I think about it. Like, he's so generous. I feel that. We interviewed somebody else, and they had not met Penn before.

And she was a friend of mine. She texted me after she was like, wow, gossip girl is just like a sweet dad. Like, he's just, like, a lovely dad. And I was like, yeah, I really don't think people know what Penn is like. They think I'm a zaddy, but what they don't know is that I'm just, I was going to say that I'm just a daddy, but that sounds worse. Wait, Tati, before we let you go, this can be like short and sweet. If you were to be able to go back and talk to 12-year-old Tati right now, what would you say to her? I would tell 12-year-old Tati to come out of her shell a little bit more and to,

embrace and love herself a lot more, that you're on the right track, kid. You're going to be a star one day. You're going to be a star, kid. But no, yeah, I would just tell her to, yeah, just to believe in herself a lot more and trust in herself a lot more. Thank you so much for your time today, Tati.

It's such a pleasure to get to know you. Yeah, thank you. Likewise. Like, no, this is an awesome conversation. Thank you guys so much for having me. This is really cool. So, what do you guys think? I'm jealous, Penn, that you get to work with her.

Yes, can she be my best friend? I love her. She was so sweet, warm, effusive, lovely, all around. We had some technical issues, and she was just like, I mean, some of them were generated on her side, but she was, like, rolling with the punches. All. It was just, like, really, yeah, easygoing. I really loved it. I really felt like Tati was a friend already.

I like the spirit of search that Tati possesses. That's a great way to put it. It reminded me the conversations we would have on set a lot because, you know, the conversations on each season of this show that is like ostensibly so dark and super uplifting, you know, it's like we're having... This show being you, not pod crushed. Yeah, really, I think it's cool.

Like, all the seasons of the show, I've really loved the cast and I've loved to have these kinds of conversations this is what I live for you know All right we'll see you guys

next time on the podcast On the way pause Because we're not gonna use that How are we gonna I was thinking You need something Because it is so hard To say

Goodbye Goodbye Oh you just end on a vibe You know You just always end on a vibe The music comes up And then you just hear The three of us

say thanks for listening see you next time you know okay perfect thanks for listening see you next no Sophie not like that thank you for listening see you next time I do mind no no no I'll say it I'll say it I'll say it thanks for listening is kind of a lame phrase what could it be you chose it I suggested it okay how about this how about this how about this Navajo favorite part go I don't It's too slow. Sophie, the favorite part. I also don't know. Okay, my favorite part, my favorite part was when we outline the principles of tautism.

You're going to tatiism.org. You can donate as much as you'd like. 10% of your income suggested. Okay, my favorite part was when Penn was sending love to short kings and then we learned that it's because he's a short king. Prince. Wait, okay. Navi you stole it.

Mine, too. All right. Until next time. Bye. You can catch Tati on the upcoming season of you, season four. You can also catch up with her on Instagram at Tati Gabrielle. Podcrushed is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavan, and Sophie Ansari. Our executive producer is Nora Ritchie from Stitcher.

Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari. Our secondary editor is Sharaf and Twelf. Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of content at Stitcher, Eric Eddings, Director of Lifestyle Programming at Stitcher, Jared O'Connell and Brendan Bryans for the tech support, and Shrutti Marante, who transcribes our tape. Podcush was created by Navacavalin and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Navacavalin and produced by Sophie Ansari. This podcast is a 9th mode production. Be sure to subscribe to Podcrush. You can find us on Stitcher, the Serious XM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to Podcush.com and give you.

give us every detail. And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials, or we're telling everyone that your mom still walks you to the bus stop. You don't want that. It's at Podcrush, spelled how it sounds, and our personals are at Penn Badgley, at NAVA, that's NAVA with three ends, and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week. Is there anything in particular that you have done that, like, I wouldn't have found an IMDB, or that NAVA and Sophie found on IMDB? let's be honest like that Nava

yeah but yeah it's Nava yeah definitely is Navi Stitcher