Podcrushed - Taylor Momsen

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

**This episode of Podcrushed was recorded prior to the SAG-AFTRA strike.** Our guest this week is none other than Taylor Momsen (The Pretty Reckless, Gossip Girl). She and Penn reunite for the first time since filming the season finale of Gossip Girl in 2012. Taylor shares what it was like being the youngest actor on set, her impressions of working with Penn, and why it was important for her to give her all to pursuing a career in music. Taylor lets us in on her creative muses, how she's drawn inspiration from the darkest moments of her life, and how she's learned to pick herself up after facing heartbreaking losses.  Follow Podcrushed on socials:TikTokTwitterInstagramSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada I feel kind of the opposite. It's like it takes somebody who's really mature to be themselves around a younger person. And I don't know that I did that, but I'm just... I think you did. Oh, thanks. I think you totally did.

I mean, my memory of you is... I mean, but I don't have any bad memories of you, so that's good. Great. So there you go. And we'll leave it at that. And we'll leave it at that. Welcome to Podcrushed.

We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava and I'm Sophie. And I think we could have been your middle school besties. Fighting over whether we're team Backstreet or in sync. Welcome to Podcrush. Oh, did we get something in sync there? Was there like a little harmony? There might have been.

I think so. Yeah. Sing songy. We'll never be sure. Guys, today's guest is Taylor Momson. And when she came in the room, we asked her, when was last time you and Penn saw each other? And she said that it was when Penn said that it was when Penn she said it was when we filmed that uncomfortable

wedding finale scene between you and Blake and I was like whoa she said it but then I was wondering she said what she said she said she said what she said what was it like to film a wedding scene with an ex was that weird I'm still processing it no no you know it's funny I don't really know

I don't really know what in terms of it being awkward I mean like I don't sure I don't think it was awkward for anybody like I think yeah I mean so from my members I'm pretty sure we were exes for nearly half of the entire run of the series, you know? That's like, it lasted for nearly six years, and I don't think we were together longer than two,

something like that. So, yeah, I mean, we went through, you know, it was, actually we always were very professional. We always, we had to do all kinds of nutso stuff. By the time we got to the wedding scene, you're like, cool, this is great. Having a fake marriage ready, and there was like, I don't even think,

in my memory there was not one bit of strangeness, you know, I mean, it was like, it wasn't even a thing. Again, because like, you know, everything in that show was about relationships, like of some form. And so

I feel like all of us had been in every configuration imaginable. That's true. You know what I mean? And every person on the show. And so literally the idea that there was just this sort of, and if, you know, a lot, The finale in a lot of ways felt a little bit to me,

like after such a long time, it felt it was almost an afterthought, you know. It was like, it was like revealed that I'm Gossip Girl and Dan and Seren to get married. And then you knew it was all over. And what are the other, Chuck and Blair? Didn't they get married? But not in the finale.

They got married before the finale. They got married before it. And then they had like a kid. There was a reveal there. But actually, Taylor came back. That was a pretty significant thing that Jenny came back for the finale. Now I'm remembering, yes.

That's why it was significant for her because she had left the show. Yeah, see, I'm not even like... That's probably what she meant when she said that awkward wedding scene. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's probably true because she came back and was like, oh, this is happening.

Yeah. Maybe even the last time she was on set, we might have been together. So that might be... Yeah, that's true. So for her, she's like these poor Penn and Blake having to soldier through. She would just like never head into the sand

and hear anything that happened between you, that happened to you. That's a funny thought. That must be still together. So yeah, let's get to it. I mean, I think at this point our guest needs no introduction, very little. But for those who don't know, Taylor Momson, our guest today, she is the lead singer of the band The Pretty Reckless.

They have the most number one singles of any female-led band on the rock charts, which is pretty huge. Amazing. They've been going for half. of taylor's life taylor is a tried and true musician that is what she does and who she is however you also may know her um pretty similarly iconic uh as jenny humphrey and uh gossip girl i played dan humphrey her brother that's how we know each other that's how we got her on the show uh she also was in you know a little movie directed by ron howard and star jim kerry

called the grinch who stole christmas and she played sandy luhoo you know it's a another icon from your childhood but you probably forgot about that one because the other two are so big we've got taylor momston stick around does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored and do you also feel like super guilty about it well one way that i combat that feeling is i'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy louis nom nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair,

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contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because shocker they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb pilaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trinom.com slash podcrushed, spelled trinom.com slash podcrushed. A 15-year-old girl who chewed through a rope to escape a serial killer. I used my front teeth to saw on the rope in my mouth. He's been convicted of murdering two young women, but suspected of many more.

Maybe there's another one in that area. And now, new leads that could solve these cold cases. They could be a victim. We have no idea he killed. Stolen voices of Dole Valley breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode. Taylor, how long has it been since you saw Penn?

We were just trying to figure that out. I think it's been at least 10 years. Wow. I think it was probably the gospel finale. It was probably the last time we saw each other. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. I felt like a fan girl.

Like it was exciting. see you guys together again, and I didn't even know that I would feel that way, but I really did. I was like, oh my God. Yeah, it was really sweet. That's awesome. I'm excited we're doing this. Throwback. Yeah, actually. Big brother. I was, that's surreal.

I mean, I watched a little TikTok that you posted this last Thanksgiving where we're all, you know, the epic, iconic, never-ending holiday scenes where everybody's around a table and eating. Yes. And first of all, it's rare that I see gossip girl clips anyway, apart from maybe a meme, you know.

Sure. But that was, I don't know, it really took me back. It really took me back. It feels like a different, I mean, couldn't be, couldn't be further away. Like 10 lifetimes ago at this point, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you got into acting when you were essentially a baby, like two and three years old, right? Yep.

But by the time you were six, you were already, I mean, you were starring in like this iconic movie with an iconic actor, playing an iconic role. Um, I mean, what was that like? Like, like, there's levels to it. There is. And for people who don't know, maybe you can just say, like, what the movie is. No, we're not going to, we're not going to share that. We're not going to share it.

If you don't know. An iconic movie with an iconic actor, with an icon. It was, it was interesting. Hold on. We do have to say it. It's the Grinch. It's how the Grinch told Christmas with Jim Carrey, directed by Ron Howard. I played Little Cindy Lou Who. And it was, honestly, it was great.

I mean, it's, you probably know this because you started so young, but it's weird to think back on your life as a kid in films and stuff and try to remember what you actually remember and what you remember because you've seen it. Oh, completely. So my memories are a little blurred, I think, from that experience. But the thing that I remember the most about it, like the thing that kind of I took with me from that was that was my first time in a recording studio was during the Grinch

because little Cindy Lou Who sings a song in the movie. That's very interesting. I really like that. Where are you Christmas? And so it was my first time in a recording studio with the amazing James Horner. It was the first time I ever put headphones on and heard myself through a microphone. And it was

essentially my first music video when I was five. And so and that moment was really as crazy as it might sound, even though I was so young. It was really important to me. I remembered it. I fell in love with it and it was where I started to

I was already kind of writing songs even though I was so young and that's where I went oh I want to make music like I want to make records and this is this experience is awesome and there's actually some really great photos like side by sides of me sitting at the console with James Horner with my head down and my arms on the

console and there's a photo of me like a good I don't know eight years ago or whatever sitting there with our producer Cato in the exact same position, like not posed or anything, and fans put those side by side and I just thought that was quite telling of, you know, you, as much as you grow up, you still are

who you are as a kid. Where were you living at the time? I was living well, I was born in St. Louis, so that's where my family and I grew up, and still had a house there, but we moved into the Oak Woods in Los Angeles when we actually shot the film. I don't know if I ever

knew that, but, you know, I lived very close to the Oakwoods when I was like 12 to 20. Yeah. It's a scene. The Oak Woods. Do you have any memories of Jim Carrey? I mean, what it was like to work with him? He was, first way, so nice. That's what I remember. He was very, very nice.

Very methodical. Very, like, I didn't quite understand what an artist was at that age, but if I had any inkling of what it was, it was that guy. Just the way he carried himself and the way he full-on. and just went into that character was intense and insane and I mean like what he did

with that with The Grinch was ridiculous. I mean he's kind of insane and everything. He really is. Like he really just embodies what he's doing. But super nice. I remember he tried to, he loved a candy bar called The Crunchy from Canada.

Okay. I don't know why that's funny. Well, it's going somewhere. And so for, and I'd ever heard of this candy bar and he would have them on set and he was always wanted another one, wanted another one, and they ran out of him.

And for a rat present, I was like, I'm going to get him a giant box of crunchies. This is going to be my present to Jim Carrey. But I couldn't remember the name of the candy bar. And so I had to ask, like, over and over and over, what the name of this candy bar was. So I think he knew it was coming, but it was... But that was my rat present to Jim Carrey.

It was a ton of crunchies. That's very sweet. That's so cute. Taylor, I'm going to pivot. I heard you say in an interview that you collect dolls from all around the world and I was wondering when did that start and is there a doll that you connect the most

with your childhood that somehow is like emblematic of that? That's a good question. I did collect dolls, did being the key word because now when you've toured the world multiple times that collection got way too large from my tiny little New York apartment. They're now all in storage. But no, it was a cool little.

It started when my very first tour I wanted to, like, pick up something in every city I went to. I just thought that would be cool. And I started with key cards to hotels, and then that slowly or very quickly realized that that was a bad idea and that you would have an endless amount of key cards to hotels on tour. And they all kind of look the same. And they all kind of look the same.

I was thinking I could make some kind of collage or do something cool with them. So that quickly pivoted to dolls just because they have personality, I think. They all have, like, you know, a little Chinese doll from China has this character. character to it that is very memorable of where we were. And so that lasted for about a year, I would say, maybe a little less until it just got. And you already, and you kind of covered the world more or less. Yes. With it.

Wow. So you were like really good touring. I got Amsterdam. I've got China. I've got Japan. I've got Australia. I've got England, Paris, Spain. Brazil.

I've got one from everywhere. Yeah. That's awesome. How old are you? you at that point when you were touring like that much? Well, we started, our first real tour was when I was 16. We went on

Warp Tour for the summer. And then shortly after I left the show, after I left Gossip Girl, we were just kind of on tour nonstop. So 17 on. 18 on. Like going to hell, the record cycle was we toured for about two and a half years

straight. Whoa. So that was a long on. But that's you know, that's how it goes. That's typical. And it's great. Wow. It's the best job in the world. It is, yeah. Yeah, I mean, the little taste I had of it and just, I mean, I just know that when you love it and when you're doing it with people you love, like, it's an incredible gift.

It's incredible gift. It's incredible gift. It really is. People always ask, like, you know, oh, it must be, that's such a hard job. And it's like, well, like, how do you play every night? I know, playing is great. Playing is the best job in the world. Like, that's never a job. That's what I look forward to.

The travel. Yeah, that's. The lack of sleep. the not I love sound checks sound checks my favorite part of the entire I would sound check forever

if I could that's my favorite part because sound check is getting to play and jam and be ultimately free with great sound without the pressure of a show yeah right that's

so sound check is my favorite part of the day I like that perspective another brilliant reframing I want to hear a little bit about what you were like at sort of 12, 13, like that middle school age, if we would have met you then, how would you have described yourself to us?

Shy. It was very shy. Yeah, that definitely. Not that you remember. No, that you remember. But, yeah, that's true. I was very shy. Still kind of am, which is most people don't expect that, I guess.

I was always very introverted, and then my extroverted self was, taught, I guess. I kind of taught myself how to be an extrovert. But I'm most comfortable when I'm alone in my apartment with the guitar. Like I'm socially very awkward. So yeah, shy. And I moved around a lot when I was young. So I never was in kind of one school for too long. So I had making friends and that kind of thing was always a bit of a challenge for me. So I was very introvert. I guess, introverted and kind of shy. Who did you admire?

Was there anyone that you sort of felt like you wanted to be like them artistically or that inspired you? Well, when I was nine, I believe I was nine, my dad talked me to see the white stripes. And that was a pinnacle changing moment for me where I was, I grew up listening to my dad was awesome because I grew up listening to his rock record collection. And like every Saturday, when I was at home, when I wasn't filming. or working. Every Saturday or Sunday he would have like rock history lesson essentially where we'd go to the basement and he would play me pick a vinyl, whether it's Bob Dylan or Johnny Mitchell or

the Stones or the Beatles or David Bowie was a mainstay in the house, whoever it was and play the record from front to back and explain to me why this was great. And then he would take that and make mixtapes out of it and that's kind of where I got my musical knowledge. And he then took that and translated it into live shows for me. the white stripes was the first, like, real rock show I had seen. And he took me right into the pit, a full-on mosh pit, everything. And it blew my mind. Like, I just sat there in awe that two people could make that much noise.

And so it was like there was a couple turning points in my life that I think have really impacted to where I am, impacted me to get me to where I am now. And that was recording studio when I was five and with the Grinch. And then seeing the white stripes when I was like nine, because it was, it was, it went from I want to make records to, I want to play live. And that was kind of where I got the bug for that. So I admired great artists. And then my musical taste kind of just grew from there.

It was the Beatles and the White Stripes and Bob Dylan and The Who and Pink Floyd. And then when I got into like early teens, I discovered the 90s. And Soundgarden was the first band that I really fell in love with there. And that kind of changed my whole world as Soundgarden. I want to ask, just because you told us that story about your story. your dad. Tell us about your family life. What was that like? What was your family into? How were those relationships? Um, my family. I mean, uh, it was different. My mom and I, my mom, my sister and I traveled a lot, um, because I started working so young. So my dad would stay, he had a full-time job.

And so he would stay home and work. And my mom and my sister and I would go wherever we needed to go. Um, a lot in the beginning. And a lot of that was Los Angeles and New York, obviously. Like when I was three, probably starting two, three, four, before the Grinch. So yeah, two, three, four. We would spend summers in New York.

So I actually spent a lot of my childhood in New York and fell in love with Manhattan at a very early age because I'd come up to do auditions for commercials and things in the summer months. And then moved to California for a little bit when we did The Grinch and then moved back to St. Louis and then moved to Texas for a while.

But not. permanently, like my father always had the house, and so that was the home place. Wasn't that in Maryland? It was St. Louis until I was about 10. And then we moved to Maryland because my dad switched jobs. I went to school properly for about a year in Maryland and then got uprooted for gospel and moved to New York. Okay, so that year of schooling was like right before all that, yeah. Okay. Which was, like before middle school? Right before, and it was during middle school. Okay, like so your first year? So, yeah, like sixth, seventh grade. which was interesting

because I was probably the first time in a long time that I'd been in a proper school system. Sounds like almost kind of ever because you were so young before. Yeah, I was so young before and was never there for full years. Like I would go to a school for a couple months

and then leave to go work and then come back and... You know, making friends was always challenging for me because I was... First of all, the Grinch, if you want to go back to the Grinch, the Grinch changed my life in a multitude of ways, one of them being I was made, fun of relentlessly.

So every time I would start a new school or go somewhere else, I don't even think the kids knew my name. I was just Grinch Girl. Oh. So it was Grinch Girl, Grinch Girl, Grinch Girl. Not even Cindy Lou Who. Oh, no, not even character name, just Grinch Girl. And so that was just a, I mean, I got used to it, but it was alienating.

That's, yeah. It's like so cruel. It's always out of jealousy, I think, in those circumstances, but it's so cruel. It's like hard to be on the receiving end of that, you know? No, no. It's because those young children are very confidently, very, very. confident in who they are and they're just seeing reality

oh yeah I'm just saying that like even I was the issue I was also Taylor so that was always fun the fun fun times but when I got to middle school that was kind of the first year I don't remember exactly what year it was but it was

a good full year where I was in school and I had the opportunity to try to kind of actually make friends and I put a band together it was my first band in middle school band garage band we never could settle on a name but we would jam after school and that was always fun

were you singing that or were you playing stuff too singing playing guitar writing and then so as soon as that kind of I've kind of started to find my little groove in school as a normal kid gossip girl came about and I got

uprooted to New York and then band fell apart you know we were going to be huge as a real bummer and had to kind of restart it all again in New York, which didn't take me that long way. No, I mean, in the end, even though a gossip girl might seem to others or probably even to yourself,

like this major moment, I mean, the truth is it sounds like you really only took like three or four years off, quote-unquote, music. Well, it took a, I mean, and not even off. Yeah, not off, but I was recording and writing and stuff, but just not to put out to the world. And it took a minute.

to find the right band members, you know, because it wasn't something where I wanted to just audition people and hire a band. Like, I really, I think part of the reason was because I've, I traveled so much as a kid. And like I was saying, I had a hard time making friends. And I really wanted to make my own kind of makeshift family. Like, I wanted to be in a band.

I wanted to be a part of something. And not do it by myself. Like, I wanted to be the Beatles. I don't want to be Elvis. Like, who wants to do this along? I wanted to share it with people. And so it took a while to find the right guys But it came about really organically

And now we're about to go make our fifth record And we're still doing it So it worked out It seems like you were Like you said you had kind of found your groove You had started a band in middle school You were in school It was your first opportunity to really make friends

With your peers And then you got Gossip Girl Was there any part of you when you got it That felt like actually I don't want to do this I want to stay. Oh, yeah. So what ended up happening? I don't know how much I should share on this show.

I was convinced of it, let's put it that way. I was, you know, larger powers than me came down and this is a great opportunity. God came down. This is a great opportunity. You got to do it, kid. I really think this one might be a hit. Honestly, the big selling point to me for the show of convincing me to move and wanting to leave school and everything

was, A, you're not, it's New York, so you're not that far from your friends, so you'll get to see them, which of course was not true. I didn't see them ever again. But it was that aspect, but it was also New York. I loved New York. And so as you get to move to New York, and the show's very fashion-oriented, and it has a lot of things and a lot of elements of things

that you're interested in as a real person. and you'll have a good time. And so that was that's actually surprisingly similar to mine. Except minus the things that I thought I would be interested in. But New York was the Manhattan was it. Well, thinking, yeah, like seeing it as an opportunity. And yeah, it's just interesting to hear. And also I think not knowing, I mean, you have to feel this too,

not knowing what a phenomenon it was going to become. Like it was just another, to me, especially at that age, It was just another job. Like I always went and worked and then I would come home and then I'd go and work and come home. And I'd never been on a television show properly before where it was like a full-time gig.

Yeah, I mean... So I don't think I realized how much of a commitment it was. So when they were like, you can come back and see your friends and you can go to school sometimes and take your work with you and tutor on set and then you'll come back. I didn't realize that that was a pipe dream.

That was never going to happen. Yeah, I don't think... What's funny here is, that the pipe dream is that it wouldn't be that successful um i just want to point that out that's and then by the way it's so interesting too because that is always the that is a strange like uh what's the i guess a duality when you're when you're trying to make something as an artist whether as an actor maybe even as a musician i think it's like the hope is of course always that it does very well because technically speaking that would say oh i guess i've made something i'm a part of something

that's done well and that must mean it's good and that i'm got something to offer but then at the same time you can't expect that to happen yeah so you're thinking about how much you can just continue on with life as you know it but then if it really does hit it's going to change everything yeah i mean you know a lot of this show it points different guests we can you know there's an opportunity for me to reflect on that time and how unusual mine was but i mean yours was we were we were in the same world but i mean i definitely did not go through you know the like that that that unique experience that you were going through. It's different.

It was different. You know, and I also, I was, you know, kind of going to the awkward shy thing. Like, I was so much younger than all of you. So much. And you were 13, right? I was 12 in the pilot 13 when the show started, yeah. Were you the youngest person on set or was the Eric? Were you guys the same age?

He's older than me. He was actually great. When I moved to New York, Connor and I became friends, and he kind of took me under his wing um because i was starting high school by the time the show was picked up and like anyone i wanted to go to an actual school to meet people and make friends that didn't last very long but but conner was like come to my school i'll introduce you at all my friends he was a senior i was a freshman um and so i kind of fell into his his click of friends for a minute there but uh ended up leaving that school and just homeschooling because it was it was too difficult yeah yeah but uh yeah but yeah no i think it was

again, not to keep going back to it, but that's where music became such a solace for me. Like, thinking back on my life, it was this place that I could just be, I guess, like writing songs and emoting how I felt because I was by myself a lot. Like I never, I didn't have my own click. Like I didn't fit in with you guys.

I didn't fit in with Conner's friends. I was younger than them. I was the new girl. I was Grinch girl. as whatever, like I was always kind of in this weird, isolated world, partially of my own creating probably but it's where music kind of

became this solace for me where I could I don't know, find myself or express myself and feel good about myself. Oh, you're a musician. Yeah. I mean, I actually think like in a way, even though I already knew this about you,

I think even hearing it is sort of like both with perspective and time, but also just hearing it right from you and how you've been able to reflect on it. I mean, you essentially have always been a musician and you never really stopped, and that's always been what drives you. And so I think this perception that anyone might have

of the fact that you were like an actress-turned-muchin, it's really not the case. No. It doesn't sound like that at all. No, it wasn't. It was a childhood thing that, you know, I got put into two years old. I wasn't making my own choices then. And literally, as soon as I got to an age

where I could make my own decision, it was like a click. I don't know exactly what. what happened, but it's like I woke up one morning and went, wait a second, I don't have to do this. I don't have to do this other job. I can, I can just play in my band, and I can tour and write songs, I can, I don't, that's all, I can just do that. Granted, a little more complicated to get out of a television show than that, but the answer was yes. Like, you can just do that. I have the ability to create my life, how I want to create it and live my life, how I want to

live it and that was a I don't know exactly what made that click but it did one moment and it was like a light bulb went off and I uprooted and changed my whole life kind of overnight they went well we can't let you out of your deal but we can write you out of the show

so you can go on tour you can't act in anything else and I went that's fine that's not what I'm trying to do I can't do but if you're not in the episode if we don't write you in the episode you're not in the episode right and so that's They really allowed me to follow my dream. That's beautiful.

And so I'm forever grateful and thankful to them for that. Stick around. We'll be right back. All right. So let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk.

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And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com slash podcrushed. Visit Iexl.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Okay, I definitely want to talk about your career as a musician. And it's obviously like it's your main. thing, but I want to just ask a couple of gossip girl questions if that's okay. I'll leave for these.

You want to go? Well, actually, the first question is for both of you. What's your first memory of each other on set and what did you think of one another? Oh, that's a really good question. Do you even know? No, I don't. I don't either. I feel like we've asked Penn this question

like any time a castmate comes on and he's always like, hmm, what was it? Well, it was the first memory. It's not like I don't have memories or ignore a single. an early memory of Taylor and what you thought of. I mean,

I just remember our scenes being really nice because there was an actual family vibe and you really held up the like there's just I mean especially as a father now I mean I have a 14 year I have a 14 year old Congratulations by that way

14 year old and a 2 and a half year old nearly three and so like your presence brought what I maybe get now as a father a little bit just like a degree of it, which is like when you bring in people, when you bring in children, it just does something very positive, I think, to a space. And a lot of times in professions, people don't feel that way.

They're like, ah, these kids, you know, it's like, now we can't speak the way we want to speak. Everything is kind of dumbed down. But I feel kind of the opposite. It's like it takes somebody who's really mature to an honest, you know, to like to be themselves around a younger, person and I don't know that I did that but I'm just I just I think you did I think you totally did I mean my memory of you is I mean but I don't have any bad memories of you so that's good great so that and we'll leave it at that and we'll leave it at that no I always had fun filming our scenes together especially in the beginning we worked a lot like we worked a lot together

yeah actually but you know I mean I'm kind of I'm almost like oh by the end we really didn't work together no at all no you're always doing crazy storyline. I was off being a drug dealer and whatever else they were writing in. You were a drug dealer? I think so. I never actually watched the show and maybe fans are going to yell at me about this, but I'm pretty sure they had me dealing drugs

at one point. That sounds kind of familiar. Sophie, can you corroborate this? I don't remember if you were a drug dealer. There's something with drugs sewn into a jacket. Yes. So you're a mule. A mule. Yes, actually. You were a mule for somebody else.

You had a friend. Was it Kara Delavit? Not Kara. Willa Holland. Oh, that's right. Okay. Yeah, you had a friend who kind of used you as a middle. Oh, Jenny Humphrey. Yeah, she burned bright like a meteor.

You know, you bleach your hair or some dark eye makeup, suddenly you're regularers. Taylor, I think we've actually kind of talked about this indirectly, but your character, Jenny Humphrey, went through a transformation that kind of mirrored. She became more and more like you. And I just wanted to know, because that doesn't ultimately. always happen. Did you lobby for that? Why was that important to you? Sort of why did Jenny go through that transformation? And was it like you or was it more? I mean, I don't, you know, I mean, I'm just curious. Well, style-wise, it definitely started to transition a little bit more to my own personal taste,

which I think Eric Damon did that with a lot of the characters. Like, he would infuse your own kind of personality into the wardrobe a little bit. I mean, maybe for the women at least, I don't know about the men. Yeah, I think, like, Blake certainly did a lot of that. Layton had a hand in that, although Blair is so... I'm sure Leighton, like, doesn't ever want to wear a headband. I don't think anyone here wants to wear a headband ever again. I don't know. My hair's getting pretty long.

You could pull on. He's about to enter his headband era. But, I mean, the style aspect of... I think part of it was just... I don't know if I have the timeline, right, but I cut and bleached my hair at some point and didn't exactly tell anyone. you got to tell everybody for those who don't know

your appearances managed we were on hiatus or whatever writer's stride I don't know something we weren't filming for a while and I changed my hair and so then when we came back they're like well we gotta write this in now it was always weird for me

being young and suddenly kind of overnight being tabloid famous which is a different kind of famous where suddenly they're out The paparazzi's outside your house, and they're following you, and they're following me, taking my sister to school, and, like, just weird. You know, it was weird.

And they would photograph me on set, like, as everyone on set, because we've filmed in the streets of New York, as my character, and put it in the tabloids as Taylor Momson. Right. And say, Taylor Mopson's wearing this, and Taylor Monsons, blah, blah, blah. And that started to really bug me because my identity was getting kind of taken over, I guess, in a way, where, like, people had this perception of me that wasn't me, and so

I became very hyper-aware of how I carried myself, I guess, and so when I, as I started to get older, I think Eric understood that, and so he started to go, okay, well, we'll dress Jenny a little bit more like you. We'll still keep the headband

because that makes it Jenny, but we'll add the fish nuts and we'll darken the eye makeup, and we'll make it a little bit more tailorized to kind of blend the two. Tailored. Tailored. so to kind of blend the two and I think it kept the character organic

because as I was growing and changing they wanted the character to kind of reflect that too because I think that's... Totally, yeah. I was just thinking though that that might... That's kind of like murky water because if you're already feeling like your identity is sort of being collapsed

into this character that you're playing and then they make the character more like... Yeah, it was reflecting on it, it was murky water at the time I was sitting and going well at least I don't hate this outfit so like that's as far as I was thinking I was going well I would wear this

no of course and I think when you're on television playing a character it's so different from when you're playing a role in a film because your identities aren't collapsed in the same way and it doesn't last as long and you aren't constantly photographed and confused for being this person because yeah I mean I think all of us

we were always just sort of like struggling with that because we were all young and you were just extremely young. Oh no, but you guys were all early 20s. Well, I mean, I was 20 when we shot the pilot.

Yeah. You know. And yeah, I mean, we were all, we were all struggling with like being mistaken for this person. And none of us, I think, had the maturity to be able to,

I don't know, just not take it personally and to know that it technically doesn't have anything to do with you. Yeah. It's just so much easier said than done. Yeah. It's like in a relationship.

Like, yeah, try not to get angry with your partner. Go ahead. Okay, yeah. Good luck. Good luck with that. Exactly. That's a good way to put it. We have a couple of questions that we ask every guest that are middle school specific.

And you didn't go to so much of middle school. So you can kind of choose, I guess it's the age range for you from 12 to 15. Can you tell us a little bit about your first love, first crush and your first heartbreak and what you remember about that? Oh, good. gosh um okay well all right i got one story it's kind of it's kind of silly when i was oh this actually involves you when you did a show before gossip girl i don't remember the name of it bedford diaries bedford diaries and you were at the upfronts yeah i was also at the up front for what i was doing a show called misconceptions and this was middle school's probably i was probably

11. Okay. And so we met, strangely, very briefly at that thing. But who also was there was I had a huge crush. Like my first childhood crush was on Jared Padalecki from, yeah, from Supernatural. From Supernatural. And Gilmore Girls, which I was obsessed with at the time. And he was there and he was on the red carpet and I was so excited. I had never been so starstruck in my life. And I went up and I was like, he's going to fall in love with me. I'm in love. I'm in with him how can he not follow love with me and I went up to him and said hi and he was so tall and I had to look

way up and I'm quite tall I was tall then too but he was really tall and he didn't love me back he was nice but he didn't love me back so that was my first love my first heartbreak all in one fell swoop I then decided from that moment forward that I was only going to wear

heels all the time really because if I had only been taller Jared would have loved me and then And then weirdly to full circle that whole thing Then years later on Supernatural, which I love that show Our song Make Me Want to Die is actually played in the show And I was like, well, maybe he'll love me now

Maybe he'll love me now So, I don't know, there's first love, first heartbreak 11 years old, that's Jared Padalecki Wow The other question we ask everyone is an embarrassing story Like any kind of, anything you remember Like it could have been on set Could have been when you were in middle school

A moment that. Other than being shot down by Jared Panaheke. That was embarrassing. Other than that. Okay. You want embarrassing. I want to get real with it.

Here's embarrassing. I'm going a little above the age bracket. I'm 16. That's fine. But 16, I'm on Warp Tour. It's our first tour. And we're playing a show. And it's great.

And I'm wearing a little dress, you know, as I did. And one of the photographers decides to get down on his knees and shoot up my dress. No. And, yeah, and I happened to be on my period at the time. Oh, no. And my tampon string was hanging out of my underwear. Oh, and this was... And this was plastered on the internet on the home page of Perez Hilton.

It went viral before viral was a thing. I mean, why am I saying no? It's clearly true. And you want to talk about embarrassing? That's not even embarrassing. Taylor Monson's Tampon string. That just feels like it should be illegal. Yeah, that should be illegal criminal. That was embarrassing.

So there's one for the books. and also how humiliating for the guy who did it what yeah yeah I feel like you're a war veteran almost no Tori does that too there's something to I mean I don't know just like again because I can relate to so much of what you're saying but I did not go through it at the same age as you and I just and in that sense like man good on you

I don't know the good news is nothing really phases me now so right yeah I've prepared me well I grew up really fast I think. Which is great for everybody. It's great for everyone. Taylor, let's talk about the pretty reckless. Tell us about the name. It's such a great name.

What inspired it. When you found your band members, how did you know they were the ones? Like, talk us through that whole process. Okay. Well, the name. Originally it was supposed to be the reckless, which just sounded cool.

And I wanted the name because of the Beatles. And I liked the reckless, but we had some trademarking issues. So we were told to add a word. It would be temporary. I thought pretty sounded better than moderately reckless. Little did I know, you know, 15 years later, we'd still be the pretty reckless. So it is what it is.

You know, band names are just band names. It's the music that makes them. Wait, so Taylor, so pretty is for like, as is an amount. I've always thought of it as, like, beautiful. Oh, well, that works too. You know what? It's however you want to take it. Pretty reckless.

Like we're pretty and we're reckless. It's a double entendre. It's what I thought the name was. Well, I thought everyone would abbreviate it to the reckless, like, Led Zeppelin, Zeppelin. The Pretty Reckless, the Reckles, the Reckless. Instead it got abbreviated to TPR. Right.

Or pretty reckless instead of the... Which I should have seen that coming. It's actually pretty obvious. Thank you. It's a great name. It's technically more clever than the Beatles, because did you know that the A and... He's never going to get over this.

Yeah. Like Beatles is in a beach? Yes. You knew that? Yeah. Okay. So I just found this out along with Sean Hayes and a lot of other people online. Okay.

So anyway, there's that. And it was very disappointing to him. It's such a bad pun. It is proof that the music is what makes the band name. Yes, it is. Because if I first heard about that and knew that it was like wordplay, I would be like, blimp. And then there's some band names that are just awesome.

Like Soundgarden is just an awesome name. Awesome name. That just wins. do you think Radiohead is it because I think it's a bad name that is made brilliant by the music I don't hate the name Radiohead but I like it I've never actually really given it much thought Sophie yeah I like it I also think it's not bad why don't you like it no it's not that I don't like it is that I think it I think with a different kind of music it would sound really corny oh sure like Radiohead it just I don't know

well any band with bad music any band name suddenly becomes really bad Taylor, what do you think of the band name, Mother? It's so bad. As long as there's an X in it, then it's all right. No, I mean, guys, trust me, I apply it to myself.

Once we named ourselves, I was like, this is a terrible idea. First of all, it's hard to name a band, especially now because everyone has a name now with the internet too. So to try to find something that's actually trademarkable, it's nearly impossible.

That's where we had to put that friggin' X in there. Now you've got bands that have full sentences is their band name. Right. has this like... And no vowels. And no vowels. So, anyway, that's the name.

Okay. Taylor, you're... Is it true that you're... Wait, wait. Not to interrupt you. Now I want to know where mother came from. How did you guys get mother? I don't...

Okay, so it really felt like, I mean, at the time I was, I was, um, undergoing a spiritual transformation. Okay. And I just felt like mother had the most implications of any word I could think of. All right. You know, for everybody, for me, I was having a personal reconciliation with my own mother. I feel like at the time, my relationship to spirituality was that of, like, closest to the earth and all that it represents.

You know, mother is like a thing that births, as a being that births. I think, oh, no, it's not true. No, I hadn't met my now wife, who was already a mother. because my 14-year-old is my stepson. But then once I met her and our relationship really started, I thought, oh, that's also interesting that I'm in a band called Mother

and it's even happening here. For what it's worth Penn. So you didn't think about it at all. It's definitely not, D. I love the name Mother. It's the X that is very, it puts it in a time. No, it just puts it in a hapset.

No, it makes it a hipster band from about when it was, what was it, 2014 or something, it's just like every, yeah. I know, trust me. I really didn't want to have to do it, but we had to do it. And it also has the, yeah, exactly. It has the capital letters, which again, like, and we really tried.

We really, yeah, so, you know, anyway, enough about me and my mother. I like it. Taylor, you were going to tell us about how you picked your band members, and then I think Sophie had a question. Okay, how I picked the band. When I was 14, let's just go 13, 14, 13, 14. I was living in New York. I was writing songs. I was working with different producers,

trying to make my songs in my free time. And nothing was really clicking. This is kind of a long story. So to make the long story short, met a lot of people. Finally met this guy named Cato, Cato Candoala. And he came with this guy named Ben, who was a guitar player in a band at the time.

and the three of us met and we just immediately hit it off in this kind of I've known you my whole life one of those kismid otherworldly ways where we just immediately bonded about music we bonded about life we had the same way of thinking we had the same goals we had the same I don't know everything the same kind of mentality and Ben was in a band with Mark and Jamie at the time and I heard their band and I essentially went well that that's that you should be my band like we should be in a band together and they went no way

and I went whoa you haven't heard my stuff yet and I played them some songs and basically that's the very long story short we started working together and we started playing together and it just worked and it just gelled and that's kind of how it all formed it's hard to find partners in anything

in life you know and especially I think musical partners creative partners is incredibly challenging because you have to, there's so many things that have to align to have that work and have that be a lifelong relationship, you know? That's so true.

And I just feel very fortunate that I found that. Like it was such a shot in the dark and so random and completely lucky. And it just fucking worked. Sorry, I didn't know if we can. That's fine, totally fine. And now you've been together for half your life, is that right? Half my life, yeah.

Started the band when I was 14. Wow. Made the first record when I was 15. Came out when I was 16. On tour at 16 cents. And now I'm turning 30, yeah. That's quite rare for a band to stay together for so long. And like my husband's in a band.

They've been in a band for eight years and they've nearly broken up at least one. I wonder what tips you have that you've garnered over the years about creative collaboration. I mean, I think it comes back to, we all have the same goal. Like, we all want to be great and we want to be better than we were before. Like, we're always trying to push ourselves to be better than the last time. Ben and I writing together, we just have a flow or a, a thing that just, it just works and it's incredibly, I keep saying lucky, because it just is, it's incredibly lucky,

like it's to find a musical partner like that where it just, not everything you do is great, but you know when it's not and you know when it is. And I think that that, I don't know, and we just all like each other. I think that the end of the day, like that's, you know, I think we all like making music together, we all like playing together and we all like hanging out.

And I think that that's, there's your magic formula. Yeah. Like, we're never sick of each other. So you're saying it's magic. It's magic. It's that magical, musical, magic thing. Did you guys ever go through like a particularly tough time, though, you know? And I'm kind of curious what got you through it.

Well, I mean, not to completely shift gears here, but if you want to talk tough. I mean, recent, 20. not that long ago Cato who produced all our albums I met him and I met Ben at the same time he died in a motorcycle accident very suddenly

I'm so sorry thank you and so that that changed everything that was an incredibly hard time it's changed my life in more ways than I can count I don't want to go too far into it

but it took me very down. I fell into a very dark hole of depression and substance abuse and everything that comes with death and loss and trauma and not being prepared or know how to cope with it or deal with it. I essentially quit everything. I essentially stopped making music. I couldn't listen to music. Everything bummed me out, for lack of a better term.

It's dark. Got very dark there for a while. And I said this a lot, and as cliche as it may sound, it was music that pulled me out of that hole, even though it took a while to come around to it. Like making music? Making music. There was a point where I shut myself off from the world

in this very dramatic way. I didn't talk to anyone. I didn't want to see anyone. I fell apart. And I eventually turned, to writing, which is the place that I always, anytime I felt down, or anytime I felt anything, that's where I could find my center is through writing.

And unbeknownst to me, without any intention, I just kind of let the floodgates open about what I was going through and wrote this record called Death by Rock and Roll. And that was the turning point where I went, okay, I got to make music. Like, this is how I'm going to get through this. how I'm going to honor his legacy.

This is how I'm going to keep his memory alive. This is, I'm going to finish what we started and not let this take me down entirely, which it came very close to that. I kind of, I had to make a very conscious decision at some point where I was either going to die or I was going to try to move forward. And I chose to move forward. And I think that, you know, obviously I think that was a good decision. It's a good decision.

but yeah that was a tough time in the band because it was it wasn't like a you know we're fighting so we're gonna break up type thing it was Cato was essentially the fifth member of the band he just didn't tour with us so it was like our band just died like what do we do my best friend is gone my partner is gone like you know he was he filled so many roles in my life and he was in a blink of an eye no longer here and it that was that was incredibly incredibly challenging and I think I think it's, and it still is, honestly. Like, we're, it's... It's not really been that long.

It has not been that long. And wounds like that I'm discovering don't ever really heal. They just kind of transform themselves a little bit over time. Like, they turn into, they turn into these scars. Like, they're a part of you that's never going away. And it's, it's, I always say, it's kind of like, I'm no longer bleeding all over the floor with it. Like, it's not this open wound, but it is still a scaven. gab and a scar and if you pick at it too much then yeah it's a risky little game this the

symbology of death the metaphor the poetic and literary usage of death i mean you know so many artists countless artists most artists use it yeah but you know there is this like i don't know preponderance in in your music there and and so i'm kind of curious about two things and you can kind of take it wherever you want is thinking of like the deepest kind of most spiritual impulse there in the music you know what what has been your perspective on death and how did how did this change that you know that's a good question um when expressing myself through through songs it's it allows me to go to the places that aren't necessarily comfortable for everyone that aren't necessarily comfortable for me and i think that that

that when you push yourself to do that when nothing's off the table i think that's the biggest thing i don't put any limitations or like i'm not going to sing about this i'm not going to write about this i think when you are literally an open book and you're writing that's when you're going to come up with the best stuff that's what you're that because it's it's going to have an honesty to it that isn't just honest for the sake of honest like i'm telling you what i did today or blah blah blah but like it actually is saying something that's deeper and bigger than me and I think that that's always the goal. And so, you know, death obviously is a reoccurring theme in a lot of ways because I write about life and death is a huge part of life.

And, you know, I wrote about it from my fears of death to my perspective of death up until this, you know, this recent record where it then turned into a new angle on it where the song and the, the title of the record is Death by Rock and Roll, which this is kind of an example. That song came about because that was a line that Cato had said years ago. It was kind of this phrase and this motto that we all lived our life by and it wasn't negative. It was

death by rock and roll. I'm going to live life my own way. I'm going to go out my own way. Fuck anyone who doesn't get you like rock and roll till I die. And so when he passed that phrase just resonated with me in this whole new way.

and I couldn't get it out of my head. And I was like, okay, well, that was the start of the album. I was like, okay, I'm going to honor him in music with his ideals and his ideas, which were both my, also my ideals and my ideas and finished this kind of thing that we started when I was 14 years old and not let it die with him. And I think that that was a really big struggle. But the song itself, like it's so an homage to him.

It opens, the first thing you hear on the album is his, his footsteps at a recording of his footsteps walking across the studio and so like you you put on the record if you turn it up real loud you can hear him breathing it's very haunting and so then getting to go and tour the album which when you make a record it's its own world and you release the record it's its own world and then touring the record it kind of transcends and turns into almost something different but getting to go on stage every night and a walk on stage to cato's footsteps It was just this very powerful moment. You know, it took something that was incredibly sad and devastating and almost killed me

and turned it into, I tried to turn it into my power of like he's here with me every night and he's no longer here, but we're still doing this together. And it's, that was something that was really important to me. There's no way around the hard things in life. And I think that the only way to live life to the fullest is to accept that. and, you know, and to live through them and try to understand them as best you can. And I think that, and the way I understand things

and the way I process things is through song. And so that's how I try to do it, I guess. I don't know if that. Taylor, I don't know if that answered your question, but. I just have to say you're terribly impressive. Like, you're like a person of substance. I think more, more than a lot of people that I've met. Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. Thank you. Yeah, more than anyone in this room. Wait a second. More than at least one out of the two people she works with. This is fun. I like the name Radiohead. I think it's a nice name.

I like it. It's nice. It's good. It's cute. And we'll be right back. In the late 90s and early 2000s, Asian women were often reduced to overtly sexual. and submissive caricatures.

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That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash podcrushed to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash podcrushed. Well, our final question on the eve of your 30th birthday. Yes. Let's go back to when you were 12. What, if you could, go back. and say anything or do anything. What would you say to

a 12-year-old Taylor? Follow your gut. That's what I'd say. She doesn't need to hear that. She did that. I know. But I would just reassure myself that that's the right thing.

Yeah, that's not, of course. Because I don't really believe in, I don't know what the right word is not, not mistakes, but I don't believe in like trying to change the past or, you know, like everything I did got me. to where I am now. Everything I went through got me to who I am now. And I think that that's important. So I don't, I never think about life and wish I could go back and redo something. A lot of times we have people reflecting being like, it's like, yeah, it's not about changing,

but it's like, ah, that was such a rough time and I went through so much after that. Like, I wish I could just kind of say this. But what you just said is like, I mean, you kind of did that. Yeah. You really did do that. No, I did do that. You're just just an encouraging pat on the bet no i think i would just tell myself like you're doing the right thing like it's it's going to be hard it's going to be a lot of struggle you're going to have to fight for everything to the nail that you want in life but you know that's life and you're going to have some experiences that are going to crush you and you're going to have experiences that are going to be beyond your wildest dreams that you can't even imagine yet so just keep going man that's great that's how i see it

that taylor love that thank you so nice to meet you such a pleasure to have you thank you for super fun thank you for having me it's so good to see you honestly like this is it's kind of blowing my mind a little bit yeah yeah it feels like I haven't seen you in ages which we haven't but also I feel like I saw you yesterday so I know there's moments when you there's moments when you like laugh or just and I'm like yeah that's so crazy I'm like gosh oh shit I feel 12 all over again big brothers here that's very sweet What were you writing songs about at 5 and 6? Do you remember?

Oh, you know, moving around the ocean, traveling, not having friends, my inner, you know, demons as a five-year-old. You know, the usual. That's so sweet. Stitcher. Thank you.