Podcrushed - YOU Finale Rewatch (with Lee Toland Krieger), pt 1

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

Our YOU Season 5 celebration continues! Today we're launching a two part reaction episode to the YOU S5 Finale, featuring director Lee Toland Krieger. Keep an eye out for Part 2, out tomorrow! And if you want to see clips from the show, watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/L4UZsjbCOIE   And preorder our new book, Crushmore, here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Crushmore/Nava-Kavelin/9781668077993    Want more from Podcrushed? Follow our social channels here: Insta: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedInsta TikTok: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTikTok X: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTwitter You can follow Penn, Sophie and Nava here: Insta: https://www.instagram.com/pennbadgley/  https://www.instagram.com/scribbledby...  https://www.instagram.com/nnnava/ Tik Tok:  https://www.tiktok.com/@iampennbadgley  https://www.tiktok.com/@scribbledbysophie https://www.tiktok.com/@nkavelinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada I was trying to give you guys OK, like when we rack from Joe to Maddie Happy to rack to Maddie Happy sad, happy sad That's generally how I direct, right? Happy, happy, happy, sad, sad, sad. More of that, more happy.

Less of that. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts, I'm Penn. I'm Sophie and I'm Nava and I think we would have been your middle school besties. Which means we love you so much but we're also deeply threatened by you. Hello, hello, and welcome.

I welcome you and you and even you. Not you, not you. These are my co-hosts, Navi Kavlin, Sophie and Sari, and the newest member of the podcast squad. So glad to be joining you guys. Back by popular demand, what we are doing here is, wait, what are we doing here? We are doing the glorious finale.

of my show you. It's all of our show. It's public domain at this point. We're going to do a two-parter because there's just so much good, juicy content, and that's what you need. You need content like this just constantly. No matter what you're doing,

if you have content on a big screen, have it on a small screen right here, an iPad right here. No books. We don't want any talking, thinking, or books. Music is even questionable. Definitely not ours. So let's just get started

We're going to start with the We're not going through the whole season We're only doing the last episode Because it is quite possibly I mean well Lee would be biased Because he directed He directed the final episode It may be

I think we should say that it is the best episode Of the whole series Nav and I aren't biased and that's what we say Yeah they want to not like it actually They're rooting against it I think it is the best episode of the whole series And I previously felt that way about the finale of season three. And I really didn't think anything would top that for me.

And I just think this finale is spectacular. We got to watch it ahead of time to screen it. And that was a little bit of a tragedy because I had to watch it by myself. And I was freaking out. And I was like, I'm not allowed to text anyone about how good this is. And it's so good. I was like screaming in my living room. It was so good.

I just loved it. Congratulations to both of you. Yeah, it really is incredible. Thank you. Thanks, God. Very cool. Stop. Stop.

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They could be a victim now. We have no idea he killed. Stolen Voices of Dole Valley Breaks the Silence On August 19th Follow us now So you don't miss an episode Before we jump in with a clip

Can you set the scene Like where did you film this How was this different from other episodes Because it felt pretty different Was the scope, you know, the budget different Kind of paid the picture for us Well, Lee, maybe you're best of the thing I'll tee it up a little bit

And then I mean my memory is already a little foggy But you got to make it snappy though The Snappy is going to be. This episode is kind of a road movie. You've got Joe and Bronte are on the road. They're on the land. They're in a car, Joe's car, and they're making their way to the Canadian border.

So the first half of the episode is a sort of road movie, the two of them, in theory, sort of running from the law. And then the second half of the episode is what I would call like a monster in the house story or a horror movie, which is what Joe is the monster. in the house. And that was, for me, just a ton of fun because it really is just this cat mouse tete-a-tete between the two of you. And it becomes this just very fun, taught chamber piece with the two. So it was sort of like two little episodes within the episode. And obviously

you have a point of view shift as well where we're going to get into Bronte's head and have Bronte's point of view as well, which I think is really sort of helpful in sort of the evolution of this particular season. But that's how I would describe. I've never laughed as hard on set as I did making this episode, which is bizarre. We're not making a comedy. We're making something quite dark, and obviously it goes to a very dark place. And I think it speaks to, and I tell this to everybody, like the one of, if not the best working relationship I've had with an actor has been with you. That we are just very, I think, creatively in sync, but also, dare I say, kind of enjoy working together.

At least I do. I don't want to speak for you. I don't want to speak for you. but I would say we started laughing about so many things so many running jokes from the pilot and I'm sure everybody skipped that episode because they saw I was the guest

and I'm gonna get to Eddie Redmayne and Felicity Jones whoever this you know gargoyle is that's normally behind the camera Eddie Redmayne and Felicity Jones I do I usually get who do I normally get I don't know some kind of troll looking

but in all series we laughed so hard that we talked about this I think a little But last time, Maddie, who plays Bronte, who's so great in this episode, you know, occasionally would look at us like, hey, guys, can we get back to work? You know, and we're like, we've been here. We've been here the entire time. But it was, it was a blast. And I do think, and we'll talk about this, too, the level of work that Jason Sokoloff and Marco Seaget did to get us to this episode where we had literally as many days as we wanted.

It was crazy. As many resources. I mean, I've never had it. in my career. I probably will never have it again. Yeah, maybe. And I really owe it to them. And then that made, I think, this episode, I was telling Nava before we started,

I generally sort of hate stuff I work on and, you know, sort of have a hard time watching it. I'm really unfamiliar with that relationship. Yeah, I'm sure you need to do is you need to lean in, you need to dig in, and love what you do. Well, I love this episode. I do. I do. I do love this episode. As you should. I do have a question,

Lee. Yeah. Given that you did have more, I love this episode. I love this episode. I do more days and more budget, what was the decision to keep the length at 52 minutes, I think, and not make it longer? Well, I'm always one of, like, if it can be shorter, it probably should be. Do you know what I mean? So the opposite of this podcast. Well, definitely the opposite of this podcast.

No, I think, well, number one, the episode that Michael Foley wrote, which is dynamite and obviously to teed us up for success. Wasn't it a Michael Ann Justin or Michael? and Neil. Sorry, Neil, so sorry, of course. Michael and Neil, I mean, I really mean it when I said. I think they just absolutely, I think writing a finale, not that I've done it, has to be harder than writing a pilot. Wrapping up five seasons of mythology and character, all the payoffs that you want to do.

They just absolutely hit a grand slam with this in every respect. And so we were sort of teed up for success. But part of the success, I think, of what the script they wrote is that it was, for all the things they had to do, really efficient and really economical. Have you guys heard this? Digress for one second. Have you heard... Love it. I've heard Seth Rogen and Evan Goldberg. I don't know those guys.

Huge fans. I've been watching the studio. Love it. Brilliant. Oh, is that out now? It's so... It's first few episodes. It's so good. I've heard they have a policy they call Undy a Hyundai for a feature under 100 minutes.

It's like, you know... And I think in the age of, like, movies getting longer. Oh, my goodness, are they long? Yeah. And the theatrical experience being really marginalized and jeopardized. That lean and mean is the way. to go and so I think we you know there was not a desire to sort of make this feel bloated like I wanted to I wanted to feel super propulsive and I think I think it does it does every second count yeah yeah

it's incredible and now what we're going to show you is a little snippet of the first scene the opening scene which poses actually the question that Michael and Neil had to answer that we all had to answer in our own way the hardest answer you know what is the ending that Joe Goldberg deserves the internet is a Twitter with all its ideas and has been since the show came out and really I think the question all along has been like what you know

what is enough jail death they almost seem too simple they seem they don't seem fitting so this entire episode is I think Bronte becoming if it hasn't already been clear she is now fully the avatar of the audience right? Yeah

and like wondering what do we do with this man enjoy how could I love you knowing what I knew what I knew what did you

what did you do to Beck and the biggest question of all is beautiful isn't it How do I give you the ending you deserve? What's fun about the first half of this episode and in this moment in particular is we're getting Bronte's point of view.

And not only do we get under point of view, we start to understand that, oh, she's not on the run with Joe. She's been playing the long game to figure out how to ensnare him and not. and make it count. You know, it's a little bit of the sort of the Robert Durst question, right? If you watch the jinx. Yeah. Can he also kill his wife? His first wife.

More than that, I think, right? Yeah, yeah. No, there's a, it was sort of a long-lived. His first wife, his best friend, and then this poor guy in Texas. Oh, my God. But I think... Why weren't the other ones poor, Lee? No, no, they're all poor, you know.

This poor, poor guy. The first wife, though. The woman deserved it, right? No, all very unfortunate to cross-pass with Robert Durst. But I think, you know, I think the takeaway, for me at least, and a lot of people, is sort of, you know, the why. And then Kathy, his first wife, is still lingering. Like, where is she?

She's never been found. And I think that I sort of, I thought about that when we were making this episode as it relates, like Kathy, Beck is Kathy for us, for those of you that have seen the jinx and know that very sad story. And so I think we do, to your point, Penn, want to see Bronte pull this information out of him extract that and that feels to me way more satisfying than just you know shooting him dead or calling the cops and seeing him carted away and i think what is what started happening i think in episode six officially it may have happened a little bit

before i can't recall but you know she starts to have her own voiceover and that has happened and it's happened in moments for female protagonists in this show but never to the degree at all that it does in this episode because there's nothing i'm joe is not going to like reassume the mantle of the narrator he is he is being finally deconstructed and he every every device that he's used is essentially now going to be used against him and then taken from him so which is i think it's it's it's really interesting and satisfying and fun and um worthwhile because it's it's it's it's just happening on so many levels you know it's happening on like a kind of frothy pop culture level it's happening at a really deep level we're thinking about like you know the plight of women and

abuse and all this stuff so i don't know i think the fact that this is the beginning of her becoming the one you want to see actually like you i think the goal of this episode was and is and i think it's achieved at least to some great degree that by the end you're like yeah and i don't And I'm not meaning this as like a, the, you know, sort of comic aside as I do. I think by the end of this, you do think, like, yeah, I think I am tired of Joe. And I want more of her or just someone else. I think that's what makes her so interesting, her character so interesting for this role because she's still, she's like admitting to everybody and to herself that she still has this, like, thing. Yeah, she loves them in a way.

Yeah. Like, she asked that question, like, how could I love you knowing what I knew? and that's what the audience feels too or that's what I felt at least I was telling Nava I was so nervous for the finale because I was like I don't think anything could satisfy me because I still have this like I hate to admit it

but like a little like Joe I feel for you or like I want to see you get out of this somehow so I really didn't think anything would be satisfying it was so satisfying I think that's because she admits like she feels that way too a little bit

and we get later in the episode we have this great scene we'll talk about it in the boat where even through this hidden agenda of getting him, he's doing things that are kind of making her feel for him. And she has to sort of remind herself, like, how is it? And sort of saying to herself and the audience, so the love is just a very strong thing that make you overlook a lot of bad, right? So, no, it's a fun, like, push and pull for her to play with.

And what I'll say, Navajo, just in that little moment, if we're walking up to Joe, I think Maddie does such a great job as sort of looking at Joe with these loving eyes because she's, you know, she's playing in the part of loving partner, right? And at the same time, we're seeing behind the eyes this sort of like, you know, I've got to do this hard thing. And I love this person and I'm a little scared of him. Like, I mean, there's a lot going on. And I think Maddie pulls it off pretty beautifully. Yeah, yeah. She really did. She had a lot to do. Fuck. There you go.

Thanks. Hey. Do you need help? Do I? This could all be over. What do you mean? I'm fine. But the second I point a finger, you run. I don't get answers and no one will. know what you really are. I guess my eyes are bigger than my arms. Where you

headed? Glamping with the gals? Yeah, glamping with the gals. Well, be careful out there. A lot of predators. Bears. Ah, right. Got it. Thanks. You're okay? Yeah, he didn't recognize me or anything. You're shaking. Oh, adrenaline. Be careful, you're going to get me addicted to this Bonnie and Clyde shit.

You astonish me more every day. Do you think Joe at that point, no, like to me that in that sequence, he's like, I'm suspicious of you. I'm suspecting you. I think it's just a device. Yeah. It's just a device. And he is actually, I mean, if you look at my face, just acting. Reliantly.

What I'm doing is, I mean, because to me, it is just like I'm, you know, it's funny with a device like that. You don't need to do anything more than just like, you know, just like say it, ground it, whatever. Just throw it away because that's for the audience. that's for the that's for the construction of the thing you know it's like that's just part of the scaffoldings it has to be there and you have to have that moment of suspense it's really actually for her because look at what she did she had way more to do and the audience has a lot to start to see in her all i had to do is just keep doing that that terrible joe shit where it's like he's just so technically tone deaf and he's just like i'm going to give you the slightest little smile i remember we were we were driving uh just like getting you know just shots of us driving that you would need to use at some point you weren't sure when some of it was used there where you know and we're on a walkie and sometimes we will give if the camera's on mattie it's like all right now mattie now you have to you know you're just giving us what we need to look like so you can use it is yeah it was pretty prescriptive

and probably not it's fine it happens in everything sure i mean it's not like you know well it's it was hard i mean that's that little driving piece in particular again like the opening scene it's sort of, he's looking at her in love with her, and you're meant to feel like if you're from Joe's perspective, she's looking back at him with loving eyes. But then as the camera shifts, and we shift to her perspective, we see that those loving eyes are a facade,

and it's sort of like there's this fear, the undercurrent of fear under it. And there's really not much, if any, dialogue there. So I was trying to give you guys, okay, like when we rack from Joe to Maddie. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. That's generally how I direct, right? Happy. Happy. Sad. More of that. More happy. Less of that. But yeah. There are also whistles involved. That's right. That's right. No, but those little things are way more technical and probably not fun in that sort of free actor thing that we're going to get into later. And I'm using, you guys probably feel a little bit more like props or like we're shooting a commercial or something. But no, that's where.

Um, that's where, that's where I remember when we were doing that, there were some points where I had to smile and look at her so much. I, I was just sort of laughing to myself, like, just knowing that it would be, need to be used somewhere, and I wouldn't be sure where, but just being like, man, Joe is, um, just tone deaf till, till the grave. He just has no idea what's going on. Stick around. We'll be right back. All right. So let's just, let's just real talk, as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now.

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I do it. I do it. I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning. Really good for gut health, and although I don't need it, you know, anti-aging. And then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8, which is really good for, I think, mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible.

Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And, yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. as the seasons change it's the perfect time to learn something new whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends rosetta stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress rosetta stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years their immersive intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language on desktop or mobile whenever and wherever it fits your schedule Rosetta Stone immerses you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. There are no English translation so you truly learn to speak, listen, and think in your chosen language. The other day, I was actually at the grocery store and I asked one of the people working there if they could help me find a specific item.

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What is wrong with me? I know who you are, and part of me can still feel this good. But who doesn't love to be loved? More than justice, more than reality, love is just stronger. And you weaponize it. Is this how good Beck felt before you killed her? Because with you, love has a problem. Christ, this is where it was headed the whole time.

Peak romance. Such a good zon. That's a good moment. That's such a good moment. Good moment. Editors crushed it. Jaron Lopez, who cut, co-cut the pilot, cut this episode and did a killer job. Here's a few things I remember from that, and then I'll let you jump in.

We're shooting on this little. pond which is a generous description it was a comically small shallow pond that was definitely man-made and full of goose shit yeah you can't tell you definitely can't tell i couldn't but you know for a seemingly very simple little scene right you know two people on a boat and you know talking and it's one of these things where you know unless you sort of have seen the sausage get made it's like it was like you would back in the subway platform should be pretty straightforward but getting you know those are Sun doubles out on the lake to do that safely. You've got underwater safety.

You've got, you know, it's three in the morning or whatever. Wow. I remember being just like a little tricky. We were shooting in the middle of the summer, did not have a lot of nighttime. We had other work to do that night. And we're behind, as usual. And all that extra time and money. All that extra time and money is still behind.

No, but we started with the coverage, right? We started with, we started with your coverage and Maddie's coverage where we were just off the edge of that little pier. And it was, you know, off a crane and it was fine. But I just, I, I really love this because for me, as we discussed, first half of the episode is a road movie, but also a romance. You know what I mean? It is, it is, you want to sort of fall in love with them together. And, you know, to your point, kind of in that weird Patricia Highsmith, Tom Ripley, Dickie Greenleave, kind of you want Tom to get away with it.

And you know what I mean? Yeah, just because you also, I mean, because I'm thinking of the, you know, the viewer here, how we all just sort of, we want not only Joe, but like you said, kind of anybody you're watching. Yeah. Who is the central character. You kind of want them to get away because you're like,

I just don't want it to get worse. Yeah, yeah, totally. I really do, I really do feel for everybody. And I actually apologize for dragging each and every fan. I apologize profusely. It was wrong of me. I shouldn't be policing anybody's thoughts Emotions opinions I'm done

Wait so the shots where like you see Penn At the bottom of the boat That was a stunt double with my face superimposed That's right Face your place man Where were you shooting those You weren't actually on the lake Where were we? No no we were

We were on the lake It was just like one end of the boat Was sort of tethered to that little pier Which we built And when Maddie and I had to get on the boat The entire crew was like Quiet The actors are boarding

It's on water And there's like police standing by A scuba, a guy with a scuba mask And there's like a medic Were there any incidents? Nobody fell in. No. No. Well, I mean Except for when I had to dive in And you know

So there's all kinds of strangely conflicting But what I'm trying to make is that it is so funny When there's something where there's Like any Any modicum of danger There are like three people who are just profusely not apologetic but just like hey listen if you need anything like i'm your guy one of them is uh tony guida is that how you say his last name yeah our stunt coordinator

yeah our stunt coordinator yeah one of the kindest men yeah on the planet the best and uh and did the pilot with us the first season and a phenomenal stunt coordinator yeah um he this is one of those things where i'm about to step on a boat and he's like hey listen man is you're uncomfortable we're out of here I've got a band waiting I got a band waiting And I'm like You know Tony I really appreciate the concern But guys guys

I'm a grown human man I can get onto a boat Well we do tend to I think Outsmart ourselves in filmmaking And I won't get too far into it But there was a thing where I wanted the camera in the back of the car That's right

This was crazy yes And we can't Like oh we can't put an operator back there It's got to be you know towed driven by a teamster and we go through all this shit and finally we end up with this insane contraption this insanely elaborate which I don't know how to describe it it was like a massive massive construct like a steel construct where the car couldn't turn one way yeah and you turned to me and you went wouldn't it be just easier if I drove the car

yeah it would be it would have been but because of legal yeah you can't and we lost the shot actors can't drive no no no you can but depending depending yeah yeah yeah I'm famously known for not being able to no it was basically like and this is what I was also trying to make a joke about is like so again the end of the fourth season spoiler if you haven't seen it um you know I spent eight hours underwater yeah in mortal danger you know in a situation where I had to film underwater for so long that I was like I cannot believe they let actors do this this is insane you know but that that's fine we'll do that but then like

you know there's just there's just like really strange conflicting contradictory sort of like I think protocols yeah and this thing was basically like if yeah I don't even know why

why wasn't I allowed to drive that because I was driving the car other times yeah I don't want to get into it now because I feel like I'm going to have some local 600 people call me after this yeah like that's our job there's a there's going to be a teamster in New York who I love the I love working in New York and I wish,

but we got to make it easier to shoot there or more affordable, but yeah, I don't want a team sort of jump me in the Hudson next time I'm working. That's fair. I love the teams, just. Love you, bro. Last question, where were you guys when you shot this?

This is way upstate. Was this Bedford? Technically Bedford? I actually don't even remember. It was like a good hour outside of the city. We were way up, and this family had just built this house and had just moved in and we came and were like, can we just camp out here for a week?

Oh my gosh, the house? is its own character. As soon as they watched the house, I was like, I want the house. I know, I think it all thought. Very aspirational. Yeah, it was a beautiful house. So nice. That house had not been lived in yet. It had been built. Yeah. And they were about to move in. And we're like, can we come in and completely fuck up

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Please. What the fuck? What the fuck? me how you killed Gwynnebier Beck. So here there's like a tight act of like it's an intimate scene that's about to turn, I don't know if violent, but yeah, tell us sort of what you're managing here. Well, this is the, this is the climax of our love story, right, of our first half of love story. Yeah.

And it's not just, I mean, because you're talking about the, you're talking about for your work yeah, yeah, the final episode. Yeah, I don't think about anything else. But it, but it is really, it's the climax of. this you know quote unquote the love story part of joe where we're and this is so i'll just say and we're really going to get into this in part two so you got to stick around for part two this is like this is this is we're giving you a tease of what we're going to get into but but to me so i actually fought to be in as little clothing as possible for the only time in my life

in my life because it was like we're just yeah i was thinking about that i was like i'm trying to match this with what i've heard from pen about intimate seeds He was like he's naked the whole time But this is important This was a battle that This was the only disagreement we had Yes And I'm

Lee wanted me to put more clothes on And I was like No but you were right But you were right This is I'm not just saying that Walk us through it Yeah And this is maybe how we'll just get into part two

Because this is because part two Is actually the most important This sequence Is the most important sequence Of the entire series Bar none Because Everybody probably thought

Where is Joe going to find his end in the cage? So tell us why he wanted to be naked. No, I'm telling you. So where would anybody think that we want Joe to end? It's going to be in the cage, right? Yeah. No, that's not where he does his worst work. It's in the bedroom.

Oh. That's where he is the most unaccounted for. As a predator, as a manipulator, as an abuser, as a completely dishonest, Carson. You know, in the cage, he's actually a little bit like, hey, I'm transparent about who I am. Yeah. It's in the bedroom is where, is where actually no one has brought him to account, you know what I mean? Right. So this is where we needed to freeze him. We needed to freeze him, you know, if this is a different show and a different time and I was a couple years younger, he should have been naked. But the problem then that would have been there is that

we also didn't want Maddie. We didn't want, what's her character's name? Bronte. We didn't want her to be in too much disrobe because we didn't want her to be too vulnerable but that's so so you know she's because what she's about to do she's about to take the power potentially yes but but she's doing it in the most vulnerable way she's doing the thing that like you for the first time ever for the first time ever you're like I don't want them together this is not consensual this is so important yeah you know this moment is like oh like this is why all the intimacy scenes in this season were worth it it was they were all intentional we had a lot of discussions about each and every one they're leading up to this it's like this is so critical we we have to show him

in in an intimate vulnerable romantic way sexual way and we specifically have to not want it for the first time we all have to be united in being like we do not want this yeah so that my friends is why i fought to be in my underwear yeah because i just thought it was like if I'm in a tank top and pants, which, which, pants yeah, well, yeah, it was Pants, Lee? No, no, hold on, hold on. I never fought for pants. You didn't, you didn't. You didn't. Actually, that's right. My pitch was, definitely no pants,

was the John McLean, just because I grew up on diehard and I love Dyer. And I was thinking as we get into the episode, you know, the more beat up and bloody and muddy and ripped and burned and everything, it gets like in the Dyerhard movies, the sort of tracking the journey. I always liked that. stuff and there was a there's a gag we do later which we can talk about that would have made that a little easier however i am have no shame in saying this was one where you were absolutely right because it's really about laying joe goldberg bear like seeing him at at his most vulnerable and and and as we're going to get into sort of laying out his his soul we're going to like

really unpack his soul and his uh uh uh psychology i guess is it was it's In, I should say, part two. We got to go. You've got to watch it. Part two is out. Now slash soon. Slash. Find it.

Where is it? Where is it? It's all falling apart. We'll put a link. Bye. Podcrushed is hosted by Penn Badgeley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. Special thanks to the folks at Lama.

And as always, you can listen to Podcrush ad-free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye.