Podcrushed - YOU Pilot Rewatch (with Lee Toland Krieger), pt 1

Episode Date: April 23, 2025

To kick off our celebration of the release of YOU Season 5, we're doing a two part reaction episode to the YOU S1 Pilot, featuring director Lee Toland Krieger. Keep an eye out for part two, coming out tomorrow! And if you want to see clips from the show, watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/VSa1oMAA0Q0 And preorder our new book, Crushmore, here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Crushmore/Nava-Kavelin/9781668077993 Follow Podcrushed on socials: Instagram TikTok XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada You know, like any director-actor relationship we're sort of feeling each other out, there's still like, can I trust this person's taste a little bit? Especially actor-to-director, right? So I felt like, not that you were resisting, but there was a little bit of that, like, you know, pushing a little, me pushing you kind of one take at a time

to sort of go there. I don't masturbate in this one. Yeah, right. This is not that scene, Penn. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Sophie and I'm Nava. And I think we would have been your middle school besties.

Getting a middle school rebellion and ousting the administration. Hello, hello. Welcome to Pod Crushed. I'm in Los Angeles, first of all. This person is in Los Angeles, which he normally isn't. You know my co-hosts, Sophie Ansari, Navakavalin. I won't tell you which side. This is Lee Tolan Krieger, who is the director of the pilot and the finale of a tiny little show called You, which is about Mou. So what we're going to do is we're going to just focus on Lee's adolescence for the first two and a half hours.

And then we'll just do a quick recap of the U, season one, episode one pilot, just a quick little. No. So, no, we won't do that. What we are going to do, though, is do a pilot rewatch of, I usually say my show, you, but I can now say our show, you, our show, us. Thanks, you know. He's like, okay. It also should be, we should have a disclaimer here, which is, I laugh more working with Penn than anybody ever.

To the, truth, truly. It's true, we have so much fun. To the point where, especially this summer doing the finale, it got to. where Maddie was looking at us like, really? Are we going to get to work? Well, you know, because the finale was a whole, it was a lot. And it was a lot, and it also had like a last day of school vibe.

Do you know what I mean? Like summer break. Senioritis. Senioritis. So anyway, but I'm looking forward to this because we do laugh together. We're kind of like kids. It's going to be funny. It's going to be fun.

And I want you to. answer all the questions as your 12-year-old self. Okay. You're aware of the framework of our show. So I think we should, I think we should start. All right. All righty. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored?

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Felicia Rashad, the Reddy Devine, Eva Du René, and more. We're talking about their journeys, their creative process, and the legacies they're building every single day. Come be a part the conversation. Season 2 drops July 29. Listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast or watch us on YouTube. Lee, can you walk us through anything that you think we should know about like how

a pilot comes together? So, a pilot for those of you who don't know, first episode of any show, generally it's for a network to figure out, hey, do we want to make more of these? Because it's obviously very expensive to order a season, even a 10 episode season.

From like network days, before things were binged all at once. Exactly. So it kind of an antiquated thing, thought, but you was straight to series, so we knew we were making the series. But I'll just say for me, the main thing is sort of setting a tone and establishing a visual language for the show that, in theory, the other filmmakers that come in and subsequent episodes can then sort of take that blueprint and, you know, put their spin on it, but sort of stay color within the lines of what that is. And so, you know, for this show, because Joe is this, you know, dark, perverse sociopath, I think you can say. It's fair to say. I think it's pretty cute. He's a hero.

Very cute, a hero. We wanted to kind of cut against that. And so the broad strokes of this is just we wanted to create a show where the look and feel felt like a New York romantic show. You know what I mean? so that in effect we have sort of a misdirect of, you know, what's coming. You know, we didn't want it to be too sort of cool and steely early on. Anyway, we'll get more into the nuances of it when we get into it, but that was sort of the big overarching idea of how to treat the show.

But that's the job for the director. Well, hello there. Who are you? Based on your vibe. Student. Your blouse is loose. You're not here to be ogled, but those bracelets. Hey, jangle.

You like a little attention. Okay. I bite. You search the books. Uh, fiction. F through K. Now, you're not the standard insecure nymph hunting for Frockner. You'll never finish.

Two sun-kissed for Stephen King. Who will you buy? I'm sorry You sound apologetic Like you're embarrassed to be a good girl And you murmur your first word to me Hello Do you work here?

Guilty Can I help you find something? Lee, for you and the pilot What did you feel like You was really important to nail In terms of genre? I wanted it to be generally

scary when it needed to be but my hope was that it was sort of you know this fun mashup of a genre of genres romance and thriller almost horror you know or psychological thriller I think is probably a better

way of categorizing that but I don't think the thriller of it all is not as satisfying if the romance doesn't really land and that's the weird thing about a character like Joe and there's obviously other examples of this but it works best

when you're rooting for him to get away with it. It's a little bit of that Patricia Highsmith, Tom Ripley kind of thing is Tom's doing these horrible things and yet you kind of want him you don't want him to get caught. I mean maybe that's just my sick mind but that's the sort of shows are worldwide

hit me. Everybody feels that way. I feel like more with Joe than with Ripley. Yeah. No. You nailed it now. Put that on record. Well and this is, I have to just Sorry, I know I'm really going on now, but a quick acknowledgement to Greg Berlanti,

are one of our fantastic showrunners on NEPs and co-creator, who really, I think, was the first to say, you know, Penn is the guy you want because, like, it's critical that everybody fall in love with this guy. You know, you can't have somebody who looks like me, a creep right off the top because you're going to tip.

Did you have the hat? Yeah, but I got that. You're going to tip your hand. So anyway, I just think to acknowledge that, that sort of relationship. Wait, does that mean you wanted someone else? No, it doesn't. I just mean I remember, I remember him calling me, and I remember him being really excited. And I was like, oh, you know, I think of him as like, you know.

Chris Hemsworth with Anthony Hopkins level presence. It's like he's too talented and the package is, it's just nobody believes it. Nobody. I think of glistening abs, mostly. No, but there was a little bit of like, is he too, sorry, this is such a, this is going to make you laugh, is he too hunky? Like, is there too much of a dream boaty thing going at?

Yeah, nobody's going to believe that. Yeah, and then I realized, I met him in person. I was like, oh, he's not dreaming enough. We're going to get this guy to smile, smile, smile? I drove. It's when the frown lines. I drove you in us. Well, when we get to the scene, there was, there's one smiling.

We're never going to get to the scene. You know, guys, guys, let's just play. That's fine. Yeah, yeah, we just got to get through this. Let's be quiet. At the end of the day, people really are disappointing, aren't they? Sometimes they surprise you. Paula Fox, top shelf, you want me to...

Oh, no, I got it. I'm curious from your perspective, do you remember trying to get me to be more charming because you wanted me to be more charming? A little bit, a little bit. Only a little bit? Can you tell us about that? I think here's my thought process. And I remember this, I remember going to that first meeting we had, right, thinking, you know, Penn's going to be like most actors, where he's going to be like, I want to, you know, I'm thinking I'm going to work with this trainer and it's going to, I'm going to, and I was anticipating having to sort of pull that back because I knew of you as playing heart throbs, a ripped, a ripped, just, just shredded.

Just an absolute, you know, a Chris Hemsworth style. There's an episode of Gossipro that I missed. No, but in all seriousness, I thought of you as sort of playing leading man handsome heartbrob. I remember some of the producers and exacts. Ryan Lindbergh, who was one of our wonderful producers, you know, saying, like, we really have to nail this kind of meat, cute, scene. to sort of buy into the show of like... And I detest me, Cutes. It's just, it's just part of who I am.

I think most actors have some allergy to that trope, you know, understandably. But I think it was important to this show because it, again, it provides us this nice misdirect of what the show is going to be done. Because we're going to deconstruct that, essentially. Right, exactly. So, yes, to long way of answering your question, I remember feeling like, oh, you know, actually we can really lean in. into Penn as handsome leading man,

but I felt like we were still early enough that, you know, like any director, actor relationship we're sort of feeling each other out. There's still like, can I trust this person's taste a little bit? Especially actor to director, right? So I felt like, not that you were resisting, but there was a little bit of that like, you know,

pushing a little, me pushing you kind of one take at a time to sort of go there. Don't masturbate in this one. Yeah, right. This is not that. Not doing that one yet. Have we gotten there yet? All right, I guess it's time to hold down my brain. Like, God.

But I love how this scene turned out, and I also, I love that you, by the way, you guys were both, you and Elizabeth, I mean, so willing to do a lot of this, like, right into the barrel of the lens stuff that I wanted to do to make it, to, you know, to sort of play with this idea of voyeurism and thinking about, sorry, I'm going to go off for a second. silence the lambs which is a masterpiece i think and jonathan demi's direction in that and you see there's a lot of eye lines right into the barrel and you feel clarice's point of view as a woman in a man's world and how hannibal looks right at this penetrating look and i i kind of like that idea and so that's why you see a lot of these close-ups are you know clean with the eye line almost down the barrel a lot of actors understandably don't like that because i want to act with a person not with a mat box and a lens And you guys were really game, which I remember feeling very appreciative of. I'm still appreciative.

And it meant for, you know, seven years we were just acting with cameras. Shets the tone and then see ya. Bye-bye. You have enough cash to cover this, but you want me to know your name. Gwynnevere? Yeah, my parents were assholes with the whole naming thing. But everyone just calls me Beck. And you're Joe?

Goldberg Everyone calls me Joe Aren't you going to tell me to have a nice day You have a nice day, Beck You have one yourself, Joe I think Elizabeth is so dynamite I mean she's so just effortlessly lovely

And you just want to be around her Do you know what I mean? And as a man, woman, straight, gay you know what I mean like I just she's just has that essence to her that's pretty wonderful um and of course Zach's about to appear and just be great and just that dynamic what what I remember this is this is going to put everybody to sleep that handshake was so important to me and we were running behind and there was was I wanted to do it off speed means slow motion over cranked and we didn't we had a flicker issue everybody's already snoring and and and we had to change the shutter we had to open the shutter beyond 180

degrees and there's that little if you watch it again there's a little video trail you might call it and it drives me nuts to this day that doesn't surprise to the point where I now on every show if I'm working with a new DP I go you can change the shutter angle to 180 or below

but nothing above 180 I learned this in the handshake people find the one I believe that I try to stay open I was in love once she broke my heart back oh she really

we did a number on me. Should have seen the signs. But we never do. Did we do the voiceover first? Did we do the... I think you did a little scratch track that we had in the edit. Your stand-in's not doing it?

A blind... Later we would do that in later seasons, but not in the beginning. In this first season, Cedric, our first AD would... And he kind of talks like this. And so all of Joe's lines would be like, are you not wearing a bra for me?

Do you want me to notice? we have to talk about Cedric for just a second because this is an essential part of just the you lore so first season Cedric Vera our first AD so charismatic and very tall by the way just part of his season

how I got that from the voice the voice leans tall the voice leans tall and his shoulders come over a little bit but this is the truth and I don't know if you had this experience when I met Cedric first day I go into the first day I think I can't work

with that guy that guy has no personality Really? Absolutely. By the second day, I thought that might be the funniest human being I've ever met. Like a true 180 in terms of getting his humor was so dry. And all the things that Penn and I still seven years later... Or his lines. Say, are all his lines. All the things we would say on set. Hammerging money. Hammerching money. Yeah. Nothing can stop us. The sun works on no man. Yeah, that's right. There's... You're always behind in television. Always. Like, you're always so behind the eight ball. You are hemorrhaging money.

Literally, it's like $100,000 just left the door. Oh my God. I mean, it's crazy. The scale is so crazy. It is. It is. It is nuts. And I actually credit that for how we started a kind of vibe in that we would start repeating these lines from first team stepping in.

Everybody be cool. You know, it would be like that. And we would start laughing. And then I think by sort of halfway, we were just all doing Cedric lines. But yeah, he was doing the off camera and his voice is so dry. And so monotone. It was sort of tough to listen to it in this context. But, yeah.

A guy needs to protect himself. I had to be sure you are safe. And your name was a glorious place to start. Not a lot of Guinevere Bex. And there you were. Every account set to public you want to be seen. Heard. Known.

Of course, I obliged. Do you remember when we were shooting the pilot that sometimes when we would get real charming and everything, I would kind of stop and I'd be like, she dies in the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would, like, get upset. Yeah. Because we'd be like making something real charming and I'd just be like, you know, like that kind of thing. I do. But I also remember thinking, let's have the charm and not need it versus, oh, we need it and need to manufacture it and the cut.

I can actually hear you saying that verbatim. I feel like you're still trying to direct this. I'm so sorry. I think we're going to want to me. You want it? I think we're going to want to want it. And if we want to let it go, it's fine. Well, thank God.

You let me talk you into some of that stuff. So, yeah. The next thing our little friend the Internet gave me was your address. There it is. With its big, naked windows, it's nice, too nice. I was thinking subsidized school housing. Jesus. It's like you've never seen a heart.

horror movie or the news do you remember the table read very well very well so we did two of them we did two back to back here's the thing that's

about a table read I started petitioning to have a stop table reads because because the show changing the industry one project at his time well no because certain shows like I would bet you severance doesn't have them

oh really well there's a certain kind of no no there's a lot of shows that don't have them. Because it's just not, it's usually for comedies. It's usually for comedies. And then it is for, like, we didn't have it for Gossip Girl. Even though it was going to be on Lifetime, Netflix was a partner, there was just a lot of

preciousness around this. Right? And also, can I just, for the viewers at home, pilots are always heavily scrutinized because even if you're just making a pilot, I mean, this was straight to series, so it's a bigger investment. There's so much scrutiny on

what characters are working? Is the tone right? Are those jokes laying? Is this story? There's everything's unknown. Everyone's, I've done 12 pilots. I've done two where the lead or one of the leads was fired at the table read. Oh dear.

Whoa. Now, it wasn't going to happen with you because you were like. It was never going to happen. No. You were an off row. Body of Chris Hemsworth. Mind of Anthony Hopkins. Glistening abs.

Never going to happen. Glissening abs. Glistening eyes. It's done. That would be. your Instagram bio. That should be your Instagram bio. It's really good.

But it was, but, but, but, but, but, but. Yeah, bring me your phone. You haven't posted in months. But that is, that, that's the sort of tone at a table read. Yeah. The pressure is on for everybody. Wow. But it's also on a show like this, such a strange thing because that's not the way it's

going to read. It's, so here's why I, I asked. But were you going to tell something about doing a voice? Yes. So, so, so, so, so, I, I asked eventually to stop. Stop doing table reads because what you have to do in them, you have to perform like you're on a friggin' stage. And it's all you.

It doesn't make sense. So actually what I was doing in table read, I'm like, and then Beck comes around the corner. Because it's like it just doesn't work. And so, you know, Navi, you did see the table read at the last. That's me having done it so much where I've learned how to kind of like project, but keep it low and just sort of, you know,

it's not an easy. Joe at a table read is a comedy. Straight up comedy. I mean, right? Like, Joe at a table read is a comedy, bar none. It was just, you know, murdering and masturbating. Murdering and masturbating. So to back up a little bit with table reads to your point,

it's not the performance that's going to be in the show. It's the performance you give in theater for the back row. Yeah, exactly. Because it's executives who are across the room. Sometimes you're not miced. They can't hear very well because they're all old. Well, I've done table reads where people are in L.A. zooming in so you're really doing like the big performance you know what i mean for the back row

which is never going to be in especially a show like this so it's it is this weird like exercise that has nothing to do with making the show but for it to be successful it has to be now give me the the state the broadway version of an episode of you or whatever that's which is crazy which is crazy although it's a great idea yeah Joe at a table read but what i will but what i remember is two things I remember you being very languid with the VO. I remember it being like very slow and methodical, which was an interesting choice. But it was so slow, and we had to do two episodes.

And the one thing you want to do at a table read, it was like this. It was just glacial. Yeah, you know, we've only watched seven minutes. We're literally two hours into this. Oh, my God. So I just remember Marcos, Seaga, our brilliant producing director, right

we were making eye contact he writes on a notepad I don't know what it was probably speed up it was like a really crude direction RIP pen and it's a room of like cast and like 900 executives

and Marco's sneaking up there's no way everybody's watching him so there's nothing sneaky about it sneaking up to where you were at the front of the room and putting a notepad putting a little sticky on your script

that said something like speed up Yeah, and you know, and this was me having been in television for my entire effing life. I saw that, and I thought, fuck them. He wanted me to do the note, and I'm like, no fucking way. You were doing the note, man. And I love Marcos. I do love Marcos. He's the best.

But I just thought, I knew that's exactly what they were going to say. Watch this. Hold my beer. stick around we'll be right back all right so um let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk how important is your health to you you know on like a one to ten and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed you don't want it as sick when you have responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have

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I won't freeze it here. I'll freeze it on me. Look at me. Okay. Okay. So, so, so this, I remember not knowing what the fuck to do with my arms. I was just like, because, because we were about to shoot it. And I was like, wait a second, I'm wearing my jacket.

And then I think I was like, I don't know if I said it to you. I was like, I think we want to, we know it's a fantasy, but like there has to be, I don't think I should be wearing my jacket. Well, but it was also because we, I wanted, I think it was me. It was a great idea. whoever it was. But we wanted the seamlessly of as you come down,

shirt come off to have the extra layer would have been a drive. Let the record show. It was about the shirt coming off. And I remember, and I just remember like,

like, still getting into this whole, just the tone, whereas like, you know, by season, there's nothing that could make me uncomfortable by season five.

I was just like, I just, just wild stuff all the time. Yeah, and like just fine. I'll stand. I can stand still still. and not be worried about a damn thing for hours.

But this was, I just felt there was something about that one shot where I didn't know what to do. And right before we shot, I just put my arms behind my back. And worst choice I've made. Worst choice I've made. There's something about it that I hate that it's just like, what are you doing? Penn, wait, how well did you and Elizabeth know each other by that point? And do you guys have to have like a little pep talk?

Like sort of how does that go? You mean for this kind of stuff? No, I don't remember. And I think like there's more conversations around. this kind of stuff now. Was there an intimacy coordinator? They didn't have that. They didn't exist.

It didn't exist. 2017, the world was flat. No, the world got flat later. No, it was pretty, like, this was one of those scenes that's easy to just kind of do because it's just kissing as far as I recall. And you just kind of

go into it. Let's see. Thank you. You're so kind. I don't suppose you can help me get a cat, do you? Of course. Thanks. Yeah.

I just saw that Conan piece you did where you talked about this. Yeah. And I was like trying to remember. Remember, I gave you the note that you needed to close your eyes and it needed to be faster. Where that note came from, no idea. I think what I was getting to was. For people who haven't seen the Conan Peace. Sorry, yeah.

Yeah, why don't you just walk? Why don't you tell us a little bit? Well, Penn, you could probably say better than it. You're on Conan's podcast. Yeah, famously. It's one of the most viewed just for reference. I was talking about at some point you coming. up and men being like uh okay so so we're gonna um i think i'm gonna need you to get you close your

eyes and and and could you could you could you just go faster i think because because admittedly i think with eyes open and slow it's just like well look it's all unsettling but i what i remember feeling was like is it is it just too much creepier or is it less creepy be if your eyes are closed. Yeah. Because I think a piece of that coverage was sort of pushing in right on you and with eyes open, did it feel too unsettled? Yeah, like you didn't

want to, in terms of Joe revealing who he is, we didn't want to blow our load right away, didn't we? Oh, I like what you did that. Yeah. No, that's right. But I mean, and this is the bizarre absurdity of this character, which I've always like, you know, just sort of poked fun at

and impressed because it's funny and it's absurd and it's crazy. But It's like the idea that at this point, we're still kind of keeping some of our cards close to the vest is insane. Yeah, right? But we are. And so it's like, well, we don't want him to be too creepy.

You don't want him to be creepy while he's masturbating outside. But again, in retrospect, now it's like I fully understand the idea. I fully understand. It's like we can't let him, we're not strangling her right now. God, it's awful to make these jokes to juxtapose with it. But that's what it is. It's like it's this intense juxtaposition of so many tones that, if you did go too creepy right there

I do get that but then of course you know the Anthony Hopkins part of me was just like I shall not I will not I will go slow I'm sorry Puck I had one back here for you but Ethan must have sold it sold what your next read come on I'll show you where we keep the good stuff

Ricky. It's the cage. It's where we keep early additions and collectibles. It's cold. 65 degrees for the books. If the zombies come, this is where I'm hiding. See, how, I don't know that I've heard much of a story around the genesis story of the cage and how you guys decided to build it.

Well, interestingly in the book, it's not, as I remember, it's been years since I've read the book, but it's not ultra-specific. What I remember it being was, you know, temperature control and other things, but there was some genesis of like it being a oversized bird cage. but I might be conflating that with Sarah investigating, well, how could Mr. Mooney have actually gotten the materials to this? Because he's not Hannibal Lecter, right, Mr. Moot? So a lot of this was from like...

Yeah, I think there was a little bit of a cage idea in the book, in the, in the movie book. Like for big birds, like if you owned, you know, parakeets and, right? You know, yeah, I was never as familiar with the book. in the last final climactic scene I don't know if either of you know this in the book they have sex through the portal in the cage you're kidding you're kidding yeah

yeah they do you didn't choose to put that in the show it's amazing so when he's got her in the cage when he's got her in the cage there's it's that that is the part of Joe and by the way I think in the book it's just what it needs to be like in the book it's in the book

it's like um I think in the I think in the book you have, the reader has a far more severe moral dilemma in what they just did. Right, right. Wow. Yeah, yeah, they have sex through the, through the hole in the cage. She's kind of like trying to seduce him slash. Yeah, so that he'll let her out. But I think the, yeah, I mean, it's, I think it's for the sake of the literary device, I think it's like, I think it's just.

disturbingly more gray than that but yes it's so you know um but she is being held yes she's definitely held and she's definitely knows that she's probably going to die in there and then another thing about that is so disturbing it's so disturbing and then another thing um when he and i again i think this is this is the joe that that is not palatable for television but um joe strangles her and you know differently from the show like you this is this is the show that this is the show that you this is really go through that moment of him strangling her as opposed to not seeing it in the show and um

and um and and and then after strangling her he has one of his thought deep dives on his guilt his remorse and what he would do like he's like and because I think you're not so aware of him being well I guess you are he's a total serial

murder at that point but but but but I think what it does convincingly is is bring to life this idea that maybe he would change because he's so remorseful and then she gasps back to life and he strangles her again

that is so intense that is so intense it's so profoundly intense and so different from the show like you know and and to me they're just they're like like many shows or movies

compared to the books I just think it's like it's just different I heard this from Marco Sega and Lee you would definitely know better so if I heard it and I'm wrong I'm misremembering what he said but I think he said that

it's built fresh every season because it's too expensive to transport and every season was a different location and it wasn't saved in the first season so even though it did end in New York even the New York one was built again so every cage is a little bit different

but yes but I had also heard this summer in New York that because we were back in New York for the first time since season one, that Jason Sokoloff, one of our amazing producers, had got in touch with the construction coordinator.

I think it was the construction coordinator who did this season to do season five. And he's like, oh, I still have the cage door. He like kept the cage. So I believe, I hope Jason or Marcos could confirm this, but the cage door on

season five is the same the same cage door. That's cool. Nice little nod. That's interesting. A little bit. But I think when we, back to sort of building this, I think the big thing was like looking at, looking at Hannibal Lecter's cell in Silence the Lambs, making sure it didn't feel too much like that. The thing you don't really prep for, at least I didn't, was like the cell is reflection hell. Oh, it's so hard to show.

And it is just, it is constant, you know, and we, you know, crew on the, call sheet, you know, everybody's got to wear black if they're going to be, you know, camera department in particular. Everybody who's shooting on the set, they look like ring wraiths. Right. Because they have to put these black cloths over them because, you know, you, like you see

anything that isn't literally matte black will be reflected in the glass. And you have to kind of sit like in the corner like normally in a shot, you can just sit outside the camera. I like to sit right in your eye lines. Yeah, yeah. You have to just like sit very off. Yeah. Yeah.

It's definitely a different thing. Did you sit in on any cage scenes? Yeah, it was really cool. Yeah. And also, an interesting thing, sound. Sound is tough. It's not that easy to hear each other, right? You know, when you're in the cage scenes. Actually, the very first day that I walked on set,

they were doing a cage scene. And Penn, you don't remember? Penn was getting makeup done, and he didn't recognize me for like a split second. So I like walked, do you remember? Anyway, I think you told me you told me you were poking me, right? Yeah, I was like poking you and you wouldn't turn around. I think people were embarrassed for me.

They were like, oh, she told everyone she knew him. No, you know what's funny is... No, people were embarrassed for me for the split second that Penn just didn't register what was happening. He just wouldn't turn around and acknowledge me. And people were like, oh, she told everyone she knew him. No, but see, this is where I've told you this before and I think you didn't believe me. Yeah. When I'm on set, Lee knows this.

As an actor, especially when you're like the star of a show, you constantly have people just coming up to you asking this. They have to check your mic. Touch you. You lift up your shirt. they rip off your chest hair somebody's like you know putting fake blood here somebody's touching your hair somebody's tying your shoe literally like you're just i have said before and and and in case anybody thought it was hyperbole it's very true if i'm on set like touching me i don't it doesn't register like i literally somebody could just be like this yeah and if i'm having a conversation i'm just

assuming that's supposed to be happening yeah and so like it doesn't even i was just like poking him and he just wasn't yeah and like i'm telling you didn't feel it Didn't feel it at all. So funny. And we'll be right back. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis.

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Quince.com slash podcrushed. Careful Joseph When it comes to the value of a book It's all about condition That's Mark Bloom Yeah Mark Bloom Very sadly he passed

In the beginning of COVID Mark Bloom is the elder gentleman He plays Mr. Mooney I mean it's quite You know for me actually the beginning of the pandemic that was a big moment where it he was the first he was the first person i knew yeah who uh who died from me too yeah it was very yeah it was like a and and i think to this show mr mooney you know he very conceivably would have been used in in flashbacks yeah totally

the entirety of the series you know so we were we were impacted and it was very um it was very sobering you know and he was such uh obviously we're not going to be recapping in here but there's there's there's There's one, you know, we didn't work together much because he's usually with young Joseph. But there's one sequence, and I think the ninth episode or eighth episode where we worked a lot together. So we spent, I think, like, literally two days.

And that's kind of it. But that's, you know, when you work on projects, when people don't realize that's often the way it is for actors, like you can build this intense intimacy for like two days and then never see each other again. And that was the case with Mark. And he was a really lovely man, really tight. talented and really encouraging as well yeah and had quite a storied career he did yeah a big big time

new york actor on stage and screen and yeah it was was again one of the great parts of being in new york getting somebody like this and yeah very uh very sad the story for sure one of the reasons this show's special to me beyond just being having had a great time making it and being proud of the result um my my grandmother died right before we started shooting and i i didn't make it home in time to see her i was very very close with her and so i i was sort of were out in new york i was in new york and she was she was here and i didn't you know i didn't know my grandfathers because they died before i was born my other grandmother wasn't more close to very very close with this grandmother was really you know obviously uh upset about that and then not long after that my my my my wife

Lauren was with me in New York this whole time. We got pregnant with Ellis, my firstborn. Yeah, anyway, so, again, probably more information than you need. Tell us about the night you can see. What scene were you shooting that day? But there's a lot, I mean, again, I just, it, because of the sort of big. Life and death. Life and death, right there, right there, around the cage.

Yeah, well, I'm not saying it ironically like it for once. I mean, really, that makes life memorable. Yeah. So anyway, that's, when I see Paco as a young kid, you know, my, my son Ellis is like, yeah, six and a half. He's younger than Paco, obviously. He's the same age as the cage. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, the same age as the show. Oh, I like it.

Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. special thanks to the folks at Lamanada. And as always, you can listen to Pod Crush ad-free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye.