Pop Culture Happy Hour - 2025 Grammys Recap

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

This year's Grammys was a huge night for Beyoncé, who finally won album of the year for Cowboy Carter. Kendrick Lamar picked up record and song of the year for "Not Like Us." And Chappell Roan edged out a crowded field to win best new artist. Subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus at plus.npr.org/happyhour See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Our long national nightmare is finally over. Beyonce has won the Grammy for Album of the Year. It was a huge night for her and for Kendrick Lamar, who won record and Song of the Year for Not Like Us, and Chapel Rhone edged out a crowded field to win Best New Artist. I'm Stephen Thompson. It is 1247 a.m., and we are recapping this year's Grammys on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

Joining me today is freelance music and culture journalist Rihanna Cruz. Hey, Rihanna. Howdy. Also with us, culture writer and critic Shemira Ibrahim. Hey, Shemira. Hey, Stephen. Happy to be here. It is a pleasure to have you both. I think we got to start with the biggest award of all, one we have been waiting for for many years now. Finally, at long last, the biggest Grammy winner of all time, a woman who has now won 35 Grammys in 99 nominations. Beyonce has won album of the year for Cowboy Carter. I think we can all. all heave, a tremendous sigh of relief that this has happened. Completely overdue. I think it came as a shock for many of us.

It's such a crowded field this year for album of the year. But you could even see by the reaction in the audience that almost all of her colleagues were elated for her to finally get the one trophy that had long evaded her. I feel like album of the year was the field this year that I really, I had no idea. Yeah. Where like even today I was waffling about where I was like, well, Sabrina Carlin. her one best pop vocal album earlier in the telecast, I thought that she kind of could have taken it, you know? And when they have announced Cowboy Carter, actually, I did heave that sigh of relief.

I had a very similar reaction, and including feeling that this was very unpredictable. She had one best country album earlier in the evening, which was a big and I think somewhat surprising win for her, given how slow the country music community has been to embrace this record. Her win, her win. Her win, there was definitely, definitely felt like a milestone. I think sometimes genre is a cold word to keep us in our place as artists. And I just want to encourage people to do what they're passionate about. And to stay persistent. Wow.

You know, because Kendrick Lamar won record in Song of the Year, which we'll talk about more in a second, there wasn't a sense that anybody was sweeping. So I didn't have a really good sense that like any artist was coming into that category with momentum. Honestly, you know, I wrote a Grammy preview piece for the NPR website in which I laid out a case in which Jacob Collier could win album of the year for Jesse Volume 4. And I really thought that could happen because you had six giant pop stars all sharing a crowded lane. and then you had Andre 3,000 with his flute odyssey, and you had Jacob Collier, who is a very Grammy-friendly artist.

So the heaving sigh of relief when Beyonce won was in part like, oh my God, I don't have to talk about Jacob Collier winning album of the year. I felt good about that because I didn't listen to the record, so I'm like, that's the one record that I did not peep this entire year. So I hope I didn't have to talk about it. Rihanna, I started listening. to it. We'll leave it at that.

I think to your point, Stephen, you know, it was a shock that, you know, the country album win even happened. Beyonce was clearly shocked as we saw by her reaction in real time. And I think for the Grammys, I do think there's something to be said about the work they've done to increase access for voting, right? As they made

pains to tell us multiple times throughout the program, there are now 13,000 members in the Grammy voting body in case you did not know. Oh my gosh. They just kept repeating that that. But I do think that the increase in access and diversity and just genre of people involved in these voting conversations also helped Beyonce in the sense that, yes, of course, the people who were voting for a country already, clearly were already behind her, which is a diversion from the other two

awards ceremonies. But in addition, also people who are long-rody for her to get this were also likely involved in the conversation as well. And I think Harvey Mason Jr. tried to prove that over the course of the program. The head of the Grammys, yeah. I mean, You alluded to other awards that did not embrace Beyoncé's record. I mean, the Country Music Association Awards did not give her any nominations. And you really got a sense watching the way these Grammys unfolded of like a growing chasm. And this chasm has been there for a while, but a growing chasm between the country music industry slash country music radio and what wins country music Grammys. I think that's also a testament to Cowboy Carter, though.

how it's able to be received by so many different audiences, where songs on the record were nominated for Best Pop Performance, Americana, Country, you know, it was all across the board. And I think that really alluded to a winning album of the year because so many people in so many different genres saw the potential in the record. Big night for her. Also a big night for Kendrick Lamar. Kendrick Lamar is not like us,

was nominated for five Grammys. It was nominated for Record of the Year, song of the year, best rap performance, best rap song, and best music video. It won all five. Get the broom out.

It's a sweet. Get the broom out. They literally said, get the broom out. It was a huge night for this song, which, you know, kind of began as a disc track

and ended up becoming somewhat of an anthem for Los Angeles. And, you know, in a night that was very much about, among other things, raising money for wildfire victims in Los Angeles, it felt like it was kind of bound to be a big night for this song, but it was an even bigger night, I think, than people expected. I was watching it, you know, in a room full of all my friends, right? We were bumping not like us the whole summer, you know what I mean? Like, I live in Los Angeles.

Every time that song won an award, the whole room erupted. Like, we were screaming, we were punching the floor. it was crazy because I feel like if I look back on my year what song dominated my year it was not like us you know being in L.A. And then having the general vibe around the city right now be one of coming together music being a point of I don't know building bridges. You know we just had the giant fire aid relief concert like it was a good moment. Yeah. I think that it was a great moment for Kendrick. I think it speaks to the to the fact that it is such so, connected to L.A. culture that when Kedrick did accept his award, a person of very few words,

he generally went to look towards celebrating Los Angeles in his actual speech, right? One of the few things he's actually said on record connected to any of his astronomical last eight months, right? And so I think it really speaks to what it reflects for the city, what it reflects for this moment, and also just, you know, a great tee-up for the tour to come, obviously. We're going to dedicate this one to the city. Compton, Watts. Yeah. Long Beach.

Inglewood. Hollywood out to the valley. Pequamah. I.E. This song swept, and it's not even at the finish line. You know what I mean? Like, the Super Bowl next week, I would say, is probably the finish line for Not Like Us. That's not even happened yet.

You know, this is just a tee-up. for that. It's a testament to his impact how good the song is, first of all. I think it's kind of wild for a rap song, albeit a disc track, to win this many awards with such vocal support from the academy. It's

pretty sick. And also, the upcoming tour is a stadium tour for Kendrick, which is pretty unprecedented, not just for Kendrick, but also for a rap act in general. It is very rare that rap acts get to do stadium tours, even joint performances.

very bold choice, but a testament to what a phenomenal year he's had. I mean, think about it. Who's bigger right now than Kendrick Lamar and Siza? That tour is going to be wild. But while we're talking about artists who can fill stadiums, let's talk Best New Artist, won by Chapel Rhone, who also performed Pink Pony Club in what I think, I suspect we'll agree.

That was one of the best performances of the night. Oh, agreed, yes. She was nominated for six Grammys and only won one. but if you were going to pick one, I mean, look, maybe you pick album of the year, maybe you pick record of the year. But I think best new artist felt like the right capstone for the year that Chapel Rones had. Totally. I mean, her microphone was on in that performance. The absolute courage to stand up on that stage while you're nominated for Best New Artist and say, sing it and give the mic to the audience and they're all singing your song. Like, that's pretty crazy. I don't

really like Chaparone like that and I was watching that performance and I was like damn that's good look I do like Chapplerone like that I think Chappel Rone is freaking amazing she was probably my biggest rooting interest coming into this night so I'm so glad she won particularly best new artist but like god she is just made to crush these big awards show performances totally I think it's a big testament to her work ethic to just the grind she's put in for her to have to have this coming out moment. I think best new artist was the best category for her to win in, largely because I think she represents a new generation of artists, one that is willing to share openly with their fans, one that is willing to be a little bit more forthcoming about the

struggles and trials and tribulations of what it takes to make it in this industry. We saw it in her speech, of course, right? Where she openly called for, you know, assistance for emerging artists to make sure that artists are not strongly without health insurance, to make sure that artists are able to live full lives while they're creating their best work and how she had to sacrifice so much to actually win. I saw somebody joke that Benton Boone was like the first person to start clapping when she mentioned the health insurance, which had me deeply concerned. Is he doing all these backflips without insurance?

I was, me and my friends were like, that one song is clearly not paying his bills. I definitely, I have felt concern, having seen Benson Boone live and seen him perform on several awards shows, I am worried about the long-term health of his knees. I also noticed that when Chapel Rhone gave that speech in which, as you said, she called for better infrastructure and better support for emerging artists, talked about how when she was dropped from her label, she suddenly found herself basically with no job prospects. let alone health insurance, and I noticed how much that seemed to resonate, particularly with the newer artists in the audience. I told myself, if I ever won a Grammy, and I got to stand up here in front of the most powerful people in music,

I would demand that labels in the industry profiting millions of dollars off of artists would offer a livable wage in health care, especially to developing artists. And I thought it was like a little charming how she seemed nervous, you know, when she started her speech. But at the end, I think she fully came into herself where she was like, labels, we got you, but do you got us? I was like, oh, that's a perfect mic drop moment, absolutely. Labels, we got you, but do you got us? So while we're talking about speeches that actually had something to say, Rihanna, I know you to be. a little monster.

You must have appreciated what I certainly thought was a wonderful speech by Lady Gaga. Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars won Best Pop-Dooer group performance for Die With a Smile, and Lady Gaga said this in her speech. And I just want to say tonight that trans people are not invisible. Trans people deserve love. The queer community deserves to be lifted up. All in all, I mean, kind of an incredible night for Gaga. You know, her album press was named several times her new album Mayhem coming up. She debuted a new song during the commercials.

But I think this moment during her speech really was the most impactful, I think, to me, you know, as somebody belonging to these communities, I was kind of sitting around all night and I was like, all right, when are we going to get to the politics of it all? Right. You know, I think there's a couple artists like Chapel, like Gaga, where I was like, if they'll win, I do wonder if they'll speak on, you know, this is me gesturing at, like, everything politically happening right now. Hashtag in these times.

Yeah. Exactly. And Gaga saying that in her speech, it brought a tear to my eye, you know, because she's always really spoken up for people and to her directly be like, trans people, you are not invisible. That was a really, really great moment. And yeah, I don't know. I felt like that was one of the most impactful speeches. of the night. I think like Chapel, Gaga, and Dochi really resonated with me.

Yeah, there were several really great potent speeches that seemed to either directly state in some cases, like speeches mentioned in DEI, or allude to our current political crisis. I think that's fair to say. And while no one was outright naming, you know, our current president, and there definitely seemed to be an intent to actively and vocally rebuke recent actions by speaking in allyship to either groups that people felt represented by, groups that helped them, industries that really protected their rights. And you see that across the board. You see, you know, with Dochi openly saying, you know, you are enough as a black woman. Don't allow anybody to project any stereotypes on you that tell you that you can't be here,

that you're too dark or that you're not smart enough or that you're too dramatic or you're too loud. You are exactly who you need to be to be right where you are. And I am a testimony. Chapel also speaking about trans rights on the red carpet, there seemed to be a very focused interest by specific artists to really amplify that note with regards to music being a safe community for queer people, people of color, and anybody, immigrants who are struggling in these times. So, Shamira, you mentioned Dochi, and I'm glad you did. Yes. My performance. Of the night, bar none.

True. Dochi won best rap album and certainly, like, had a big night from a standpoint of accepting an award. But in terms of, like, a victory lap, ascension to megastardom, the artist, I feel like people are going to be talking about the most. I suspect the artist who will enjoy the largest boost in things like streaming from this night is Dochi. Because I feel like Dochey. Dochi just had a massive coming out party tonight. This category was introduced in 1989, and two women have won. Lauren Hill, three women have won.

She and Dochi. She even is leaning into it, too. She just released a new song, you know, and the cover for the song is a Grammy and alligator's skin. You've got to love it. It's really, really sick. I love Doci, man. I've been a big fan of Dochi since about 2019 when I first heard spooky coochie for the first time, right? You know?

And I remember watching her, I believe it was 2021 at the BET Hip Hop Awards where she performed with Isaiah Rashad on what you said. And I said, this is a star. This is someone who knows their angles, knows how to speak to the camera, knows how to really bring that energy out on stage in a way that sometimes you just have it or you don't when it comes to that X factor. And watching it all come together for her in the last year. And I'm happy that she got to showcase her performance skill and her commitment to her craft on the largest stage. I think everyone walked away, obsessed with how she conceptualized his performances, but taking that Tom Brown execution to the next level,

getting the really great geometric moments with the choreography that were delivered really well, playing into a little bit of playfulness with kind of the jazz interludes to transition to our next single. It was giving Chicago. Tans across the board. Absolutely. Yes.

And at the risk of sounding self-promotional, if you have not watched Dochie's Tiny Desk concert, that is your next step. If you were discovering Dochie watching these Grammy Awards, your next step is to watch her Tiny Desk concert. Because, my God, Megastar. Speaking of Megastars, Best Pop Vocal Album, Short and Sweet, Sabrina Carpenter.

Glad to see that, you know, even though she was shut out in the major awards and she didn't win Best New Artist, even after the, like, huge star turn year she had, she did get a moment to do like a giant, very fun and theatrical performance of espresso and please, please, please. And she did get to win a trophy during the telecast. It was giving physical comedy. It was giving vaudeville. I think it really showcased her stardom. She's been doing this on her tour, you know, these like physical comedy bits and kind of playing around with the stage as like a theatrical medium. But I think this performance really showcased what makes Sabrina Carpenter special. And that she's funny.

She has personality. And the performance also was extremely tight and really well put together. Now you need to think about me. And I enjoyed her winning Best Pop Vocal album because it kind of reflected something that I largely enjoyed about this Grammys was that a lot of artists felt like they got their due. You know, I feel like Sabrina Carpitzer was celebrated. I felt like Chapel Rhone was celebrated. I felt like Beyonce was celebrated all equally. And I think that's really hard for the Grammys to get right because they haven't.

People are going to get shut out. And it's worth noting here, Taylor Swift and Billy Eilish were both shut out. They were the only people who were nominated for like a whole bunch of awards and didn't take home something. And if you're going to, it's not to criticize either of those artists or either of those, the records that they were nominated for. But if you're going to pick somebody who gets left out, it might as well people who have won boatloads of Grammys before. Real. I also just think it's a testament to, it just being a great year in popular music, right? I think sometimes it's very easy to get defeatist.

You know, music discovery is harder to do. The music apparatus is so crowded now. How can you keep track of 10,000 new songs a day? And I think it's very easy to get caught up in the muck and feel like, oh, my God, there's just nothing new are compelling. But I think this year, the Graves did a good job of just reminding this. There's actually a lot of great music out there, both from our bigger artists and our legacy artists and our emerging artists. And it really did a good job of highlighting that, both from the best new artist showcase to just finally, crowning some of our long-standing legends, I think it really painted a good picture to not feel so

defeated by the future of the music industry and that good creations are still coming every single day. And like, that's part of what I really loved about the Grammys this year. Like, I'm going to go on record and say, like, I enjoyed watching the Grammys this year. It's not always the case. This year, I enjoyed it. And I think the Grammys really put a concentrated effort into making this telecast felt like it mattered. I fully agree, Rihanna. I think, Not only will I say that I enjoyed it, I will even go so far as to say something that I rarely say, which is that I was wrong. I was in the camp that really believe that the Gramby's probably should not have happened or should have been really strategized in the wake of everything happening in Los Angeles. It was hard for me to conceptualize what a version of a Graeby's could look like, where they de-emphasize the awards and focus on the community in a way that felt sensible or organic.

I did feel like there were at times where it did lean a little bit on the telethon side. However, I did think that overall really well done, a really strong balance of the artists and celebrating and honoring Los Angeles as a community. I think everyone felt that despite some blips here and there. Yeah, Shamira, I'm glad you mentioned the telethon angle of this because that's kind of the last thing I wanted to talk about, which was the overall tone of these awards. Yeah, Harvey Mason Jr., you know, the head of the Recording Academy in the run-up to these awards, said, like, this is not going to be a telethon. We're going to do something that's appropriate to the moment, but it's not going to become a telethon. And then they went and basically put on a telethon.

And, you know, Trevor Noah, who was the host of the Grammys, he's hosted the Grammys before, seemed to largely bypass skits and bits in favor of taking opportunities to, you know, highlight local businesses that needed help. or just really to just solicit funds and said at one point that just from viewers at home, they raised, you know, $7 million, not even counting, you know, the big corporate donors or the artists in the room and what they gave. What did you guys think about kind of the overall, the overall telethoniness of the night? So I say this as somebody who lives in Los Angeles has been volunteering for pretty much the past month, no people that have lost their homes, you know, seen all of this first. I was watching and I was like, okay, this is a little much. And I appreciate them putting all of this effort into soliciting donations and in kind of creating this environment. I personally really loved the clips where they paired musicians with local businesses

that were lost in the fires. On the other hand, we just had the fire aid concerts a few days ago, you know? And that put all of, I think, the wreckage in front of our faces in over and over and over again. And while I was watching the Grammys, I was like, man, like, we're going to take these vibes that we set with like Chapel Roan or Sabrina Carpenter and then totally, totally flip it on a 180 and then put, you know, fire carnage in front of our faces. It felt a little tone deaf at times, but perhaps that was just me, you know, being here and seeing. at all. I didn't think that they needed to announce everybody who donated we would be here forever and it's already like a four hour long telecast

but I mean maybe they should have just actually gone the telethon route and just kept a big poster board or like a live smart board on the stage and just shown the actual amounts filling. I think that might have solved that problem. I'm not really sure but I'd rather us focus on like

the tangible things that can integrate well which I think like you mentioned Rihano were the commercials. I thought you know Doja also being from the Southern California area. It also worked really well. I think a lot of those collaborations were really well executed. I definitely think some parts could have been tweaked, but I think given the short turnaround for that writing team, they did a lot well in the circumstances. True. So yeah, all in all, a complicated night, they managed to address the wildfires. They gave awards to Kendrick Lamar

and Beyonce finally won album of the year. Feels like a complete night of Grammys. We want to know what you think about this year's Grammy ceremony and winners. Find us at Facebook.com slash PCH. That brings us to the end of our show. Rihanna Cruz, Shemira Ibrahim. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks as always. Thanks for having us. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio and you get to listen to all our episodes sponsor free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.npr.org slash happy Hour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzker and edited by Jessica Reedy. Audio engineering was performed by David Greenberg and Hello, Come In provides our theme

music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson and we will see you all tomorrow.