Pop Culture Happy Hour - Bugonia And What’s Making Us Happy

Episode Date: October 31, 2025

Bugonia stars Emma Stone as a high-powered CEO who’s kidnapped by conspiracy theorists, one of whom is played by Jesse Plemons. The conflict grows more and more complex and intense — and, given that this is a Yorgos Lanthimos movie, it gets 1) very dark; and 2) very weird. Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopcultureSee pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Director Jorgos Lanthamos has worked with Emma Stone on many projects, including poor things, kinds of kindness, and the favorite. Now they team up again in Bagonia. And as you might expect, things get weird. The film stars Stone as a high-powered CEO who's kidnapped by conspiracy theorists, one of whom is played by Jesse Plemons. I'm Glenn Weldon. And I'm Stephen Thompson.

Today we are talking about Bagonia on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Joining us today is our co-host, Aisha Harris. Hey, Aisha. Hey, Stephen. Also with us is Philadelphia Inquirer, Arts, and Entertainment Editor and Film Critic Bedotry D. Chaudhry. Hey, Bedatry. Hello. It is a pleasure to have you all here. So, Jesse Plemons, stars in Bagonia as a strange loner named Teddy.

We meet Teddy and his cousin, Don. He's played by Aidan Delbus. They kidnap a pharmaceutical CEO named Michelle, who's played by Emma Stone. Teddy believes some truly bizarre things, including that Michelle is a malevolent alien. Where is my hair? Your hair has been destroyed. You shaved off my hair? Yes, we've shaved off your hair.

Why have you shaved off my hair? To prevent you from contacting your ship. My ship? Your ship. What ship? Your mother's ship? The conflict grows more and more complex and intense, and given that this is a Yorgos-Lanthamos movie, it gets one. very dark, and two, very weird.

At no point does Teddy wear an actual tinfoil hat, but that would seem to be because he used up all his tinfoil covering the windows. Bologna was written by Will Tracy, who worked on Succession and co-wrote the menu, so again, no stranger to darkness or weirdness. It's in theaters now, Glenn, I'm going to start with you. You are our Yorgos-Lanthamos correspondent. What did you think of Bagonia? I mean, I enjoyed it, because of course I did.

I'm someone who's famously in the tank for this filmmaker. I would place it as mid-tier Lantamos, though, because for a variety of reasons, this doesn't seem to me to be, I guess, what we'd call a pure expression of this guy, his vibe, his sensibility. I mean, the reason that films like Dog Tooth and Killing of Sacred Deer and Kinds of Kindness, which I was out here in these streets last year defending, they feel much more satisfying to me than some of his more popular films, like the favorite and poor things, both of which got pelted with Oscars,

is because he didn't write the favorite, and he didn't write poor things, he didn't write this. And when he writes and directs his own stuff like dog tooth and sacred deer and kinds of kindness and the lobster, which for me is one of my favorite movies of all time and certainly my favorite of his movies.

It comes with his whole bag of BS, right? It comes with a very mannered. Some would say mannered, I would say characteristic style. Kind of dialogue that's hilariously stilted, delivered with a flat effect, almost a monotone. So you've got all kinds of emotions bubbling underneath the surface that the characters never seem to be able to latch onto. Also, let's not forget, the bleakness, as you mentioned.

To me, it's a very funny Charles Burns, Chris Ware, extreme form of bleakness. So he cannot do that in this film, that affectless affect. Because he wants us to be in that basement alongside her, making the same kind of assessments, calculations, shrewd, figuring things out that she's doing in her situation that we imagine we would in her situation. For the film to work, it can exist in this kind of hermetically sealed bubble that the films he writes and directs do. And so, to me, it's just not as definably him when I realize that's her own logic.

Because I'm saying, oh, he's not doing the thing I like him doing, therefore he's not being true to himself. And I want him to be able to grow as a filmmaker. But I think there's a coldness here that belongs in a film like the lobster that here it kind of interposes itself between us and the story because the world of this film is attempting to replicate arts. It's not trying to be its own thing. It's still Lantamos.

It's still weird. It's still got someone at the screening I attended shouting, the F was that at the end, which is what I want from this guy. That's what I want. I'm with that guy. I'm with that guy. Yes. But still mid-tier.

Also, we'll talk about the ending in vague terms. The ending didn't work for me, but it's somebody else's term. I can take that on. You know, let me start with, I actually liked favorite a lot. But I also like lobster and killing on the secret deer. I just think this film is so unnuanced. Like capitalism bad. But then also, in-cell behavior is bad.

But it becomes like this, us versus them, good versus bad. And then I say there's knowing this is a bizarre film, which obviously we can't like give away much off. But I really wanted more nuance and like complications in the way we see. the world. And, you know, it is a remake of a 2003 Korean film called Save the Green Planet. And I just think these things meant different things. A guy in suburban America sitting on a computer has tin fall on his window panes. These things meant different things in 2003. And like you said, Glenn, when you do this in 2025, they kind of become like very bad metaphors. And I really miss.

the rich, complicated, nuanced storytelling that I have learned to enjoy in Lantemosus films. Okay. How about you, Aisha? Well, if Glenn is the Lantamose correspondent, I would put my cape on and say, like, I'm a small C-lantos correspondent. Like, I'm also more or less in the tank for him, although his last film, Kindness was where I kind of started to feel like, okay, this is testing my limits. And also his creative partnership with Emma Stone is obviously. also testing my limits.

Like, how much more torture is you going to put this woman through on screen? Like, she... I almost seems to enjoy it. I really don't like that. Like, she's in so much pain. There's that one scene where you don't even see her, but, like, your skin is crawling. And you want to yell. Yeah.

And look, I liked this for the most part. Although, at the time that we're taping this, it's been, like, exactly a week or a little bit more than a week since I've seen it. And I'm still not sure where I fall. And Glenn kind of gets into this. But, like, the thing about Lanthamose's movies, for the most part, is that they're all about world building and creating their own world. And so I'm struggling now and also seeing that this is a movie that Ari Aster produced. Shocking.

I have so many feelings about Ari Aster that I don't fall in line with a lot of people who really are in the tank for him. And, you know, I don't know how much input Ari Aster actually had in this movie, but just that alone tells me, okay, this might not be quite. for me. What it comes down to for me is that this is a movie and it's really hard right now to make a movie that can both feel as though it is copy and pasting our current landscape, but also transcends it in a way or does something more because it's really hard right now to not look at the news and not live in this world and feel as though everything has just become a satire in real life. And to be able to present that on film in this time, maybe I'll appreciate this more, to 10 years from now when we have a little bit more of hindsight.

And I do think this achieves something more interesting than Eddington, Ari Aster's film from earlier this year, which is also in many ways trying to get at this moment, even though it's set in 2020, it's still kind of pulling from that same bag. What, when's this over for me is the performances. Emma Stone is fantastic. Jesse Plymonds is freaking terrifying and so good. He's just so convincing as that guy. Like the way he's able to transform from performance to performance, it seems like he's lost a lot of weight.

His hair is scraggly. He looks like who I would expect someone like this to act like would. And my goodness, it was convincing. So I'm kind of all over the place on this. I'm sorry that's not a better answer. Okay, Stephen, tell us what to think. Stephen, tell us. Oh, yes.

If there's one thing that I came away from this movie with, it's clarity. I will echo a lot of what y'all have said. I'm a little bit all over the place on this film. There is a sense, really from the jump in this film, like, oh, I'm in good hands. I'm in the hands of a very skilled filmmaker. I'm in the hands of a very skilled writer. I'm in the hands of very skilled actors. And all of that is true and is true from start to finish.

And there is sort of something interesting going on in almost every scene in this movie. At the same time, and I think Glenn said we're going to refer to the ending in vague terms. We're not going to spoil the ending, but I will say I found the ending enormously unsatisfied. Oh, my God. Yes. I think it's echoed in their performances. I mean, I think they're both great, but I think they're great individually. I don't think these two actors get a chance to breathe together.

Yes. Which is a deliberate choice in his part, because if you notice, this film seems to live in tight shots of Stone's face and then tight shots of Plymonds face and then tight shots of Stone's face. We go tight on them while they are talking, but he does not show us a lot of them reacting to what the other person's saying. We stay on them while they talk, then we cut to someone else as they talk back and forth. And they say acting is reacting. And in the case of Plemons and Stone, he's completely denying us that. And after a while, you start to realize unconsciously that you're wanting to see how Stone would react to that thing that Plemons just said. But we're still on Plemons.

Why are we still on Plemons? And if I had to guess, I think it's because he wants to show us this battle of wills of two people asserting their versions of reality, very different versions of reality. It's kind of what Eddington was doing, I guess, without listening to each other, without reacting to each other. see them asserting their vision, we see their take, and we never see it making any impression or sinking in with the other person. Contrast that with the Donnie character, the Aidan Delbus character, that

guy lives in reaction shots. He's constantly being buffeted back and forth. He's absorbing everything that is said by both these people, because he is this chewy emotional center of this film, but he's being constantly acted upon, manipulated by both of them. And he's been asked not to talk.

And he's been asked not to talk. So all we get is his face. All we get is very reactive emotional face. And I think that's technically a smart choice because it serves the theme. But man, is it unsatisfying to watch two of the greatest actors of our age delivering what amounts to be a series of kind of mini monologues chopped up instead of having ever a real dialogue, which is the point, but it's frustrating. Yeah. There's definitely a claustrophobia to this film that is intentional. And even though we do frequently kind of get these moments away from what's happening in the basement and in the house, it does.

still in many ways feel like a chamber piece. Like we're just going to keep you here. But then, as you said, Glenn, to make that choice to zone it in even closer, as if you were just actually looking at a computer screen yourself and like you're here, you're reading these like reactions of like at one point she says, you know, you're mentally ill and that sets him off. Yeah. And that back and forth. And he's saying, well, you know what? I've been down every single, I think he calls it the whole digestive tract of like alt-right, alt-left, Marxism. And he's like, and this is where I came to. This is where I come down to. And again, it's that issue of what you're trying to feel like this is documenting what is happening versus where you're making it art. And I think, again, the performances,

they are what elevates it. I also have to say that the score by Jerskin Pendricks, I kind of loved it. It feels like I'm watching a movie from the 1950s. It's very strong. Especially when he's biking from home to his workplace. Orchestral. It almost sounds like the Herman score from cycle. Like it's kind of like, that to me is kind of what carries it and helps bring it out. But again, it's just like how much reality do I want in this depiction. Yeah, but you know, my thing is when he talks of that he is read through all of these ideas.

And then he constantly says, as we have heard this on many an online forum, I have done my own research. But I'm like, then how are you still so gullible and sometimes foolish? Again, I'm not going to talk about the exact scene I'm talking about. But like, if you really hate this person so much and you've like done your own research and you know this is someone who's here to manipulate you, take over your world, why are you believing her when it comes through this one big, crucial thing in your life, which is driving you insane? like you are on the brink of insanity and suddenly you just believe this person after having spent your life

doing this quote unquote research. That is what really frustrated me. And I'm talking in very vague tones so that I'm not giving away spoilers. Aisha, you talked about, I'm also increasingly uncomfortable with how misogynist these films are getting.

The women in this film endure so much, the woman in this film. It's also telling. The one woman. And the women in his recent films, he just endure so much abuse. I mean, at least as far back as Dog Tooth, I think that's been kind of. But even Dog Tooth is a movie where it's not just the women. It's three siblings.

One of them is an adult man. I mean, like, why not both, right? There can be misanthropy and misogyny. Both things can be true. Sure, exactly, exactly. Which is why I'm saying, like, I don't think misogyny is necessarily. that's not something I would describe to Lathamos, generally speaking. I think he's interested in, yeah, I think he's a misnomer.

Misery, bleakness. And these are things I gravitate towards, like, Glenn. Like, these are things that I find fascinating. But the reason why I love a movie so much like The Lobster, and maybe it's telling that that's the first Lathmos movie I ever saw. And that remains my favorite Lantamos. Even with all the misery, there's still, as you were saying, Badatri, there's still a little bit of nuance, especially in the way.

that movie ends and how there's both like it's bleak as hell but it also is kind of heartwarming in a way and this you're just like oh this is not a heartwarming movie my heart not warm my heart will not go on but also can we talk of Casey

who's like the sheriff who's star rose halkees who used to host this extremely provocative podcast can you say the title on NPR I don't know Can I say the title? I will not.

Please Google it. But I found it fascinating that he's in a Lanthamos film, where after having made a career out of being very impified. Wow. And you are the face of law enforcement in this film. It was fascinating to me. That actor talks about that on a recent issue of Good One. The podcast where Jesse David Fox interviews comedians. He talks about acting.

He talks about the podcast. It's an interesting conversation. Yeah. He also has an interview and slate. And it's interesting because he's both been on a show that kind of says these things in the quote-unquote mannosphere. But then he's also campaigning with Zora and Mamdani. So, like, he's all over the place. But, like, so is this world.

It's complicated. Yeah. Yeah. So wrap it up, Stephen. Tell us what to think about this movie. Yeah. How are we supposed to feel? Tell us what we thought about this movie.

Please do. Yes. Please tell us what you think. I can't wait to hear. Well, opinions are mixed. There we go. If bleak isn't your bag, I'd sit this one out. But I'm glad that we have filmmakers who are clearly given a fair bit of free reign to follow their extremely idiosyncratic vision.

I'm glad that Lantmos is able to be as prolific as he is. I worry that we're starting to get diminishing returns. Yeah. But I will say to you what I said to the people outside the theater who were like, what did you think? and I said, I have no idea what to tell you. Yes. All right, we want to know what you think about Bagonia. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash PCHH

and on letterboxed at letterboxed.com slash NPR pop culture. We'll have a link in our episode description. Up next, what's making us happy this week. Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week? But D. Chaudhry, what is making you happy this week? What is making me happy this week is the fact that I share this world with actor Renata Reinsfei, who was a Norwegian actress. Some of us may have seen her in the film called The Worst Person in the World.

I just saw Joachim Trier's new film, sentimental value, and she's in the film. And I'm sure you guys will talk about this film. But I'm so taken in by this actress. And like, A, she's like beautiful. but I do think she is one of the foremost actresses of our time and she is just so good in this film. And this is a film about, just to give you a very short idea, the father is an elderly filmmaker and she plays the elder daughter and she's a theater actress.

And it's such an interesting film because it's not just the meeting of the father and daughter, but also a meeting of artists, a meeting of actors from, film and theater, and it all comes down, and she, like, embodies this whole debate, and it's so beautiful, and she brings in so much grace to this very difficult part. I'm just happy to be sharing this world with her, and I'm sure seeking out her other work will make people happy as well. That's Renata Reinsvitt from Sentimental Value. And a bunch of other great films, which you all should be watching. She is great and the worst person in the world. I think she should have been nominated for an Oscar for that.

Absolutely. Wonderful. All right, Aisha Harris. What's making you happy this week? Kelly Reichardt's new heist movie, The Mastermind. Very topical. Okay. Yes.

And if you're thinking to yourself, Kelly Reichardt has made a heist movie. A heist movie, yeah, that was my first thought. Slowest heist ever. The woman behind such thrilling barn burners as Meeks cut off and first cow and showing up. No, the mastermind is you think that. And then you watch it and you're like, oh, she made her version of the heist movie. And it's so good. Josh O'Connor is playing an unemployed art school dropout.

And he concox this heist of a museum in Framingham, Massachusetts in the early 1970s. First of all, this movie is beautifully shot. It's a beautiful period movie. But his character is an amateur. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's not the Louvre Heist people. He's, no, although I will say, like the Louvre Heist, it happens in broad daylight, which is interesting. But it's about more than that.

The heist is a small part of it. And then it's all about sort of his relationships with his family and with people he used to know and friends. And you've also got the backdrop of the Vietnam War. I don't know. There's just something really special about this movie. And I love a slow, deliberate heist, even though, you know, Ocean's 11, all that. Those are very fun. But every once in a while, you need your more deliberate slow-moving things.

And Kelly Redcard is great at that kind of filmmaking, which is why I highly recommend you check out the mastermind. if you are a fan of her work and of Josh O'Connor, who is fantastic in this. Nice. Thank you, Aisha Harris. Glenn Weldon, what's making you happy this week? Okay, Daddy Superior is a short film that's written and directed by Benjamin Partridge.

He also composed the music. Benjamin Partridge is the British comedian behind the Beef and Dairy Network podcast on Maximum Fun. This is a black and white film about two monks leading a devout and peaceful existence in the countryside. I'm going to tell you nothing else about it, except that one of the monks is played by Mike Wozniak, the British comedian,

who some listeners, some more discerning listeners, by which I mean the listeners who listen to my recommendations, will know as one of the all-time great Taskmaster competitors. Also, he plays the assistant on junior Taskmaster. Look at, I'm me. Allroads lead back to Taskmaster. Partridge released it on his YouTube channel, Benjamin Partridge. Go check it out. It's 15 minutes long.

It's very funny. Thank me later. That is the YouTube short, Daddy Superior. Nice. you, Glenn Weldon. What's making me happy this week? Well, this episode is dropping on Halloween. And I am here to recommend the new song by the wonderful Spanish pop singer Rosalia. It is called Burkine. I can see ghosts swirling around. That's great. I can see Jesse Plemmons biking to work with this playing in the background. Those like 20 seconds that we played give you just a hint

of what is going on just in this like three minute song. Do I need to tell you that Bjork shows up or the similarly wild and inventive Eve Tumor? It is accompanied by a video that is a piece of art. It is a piece of cinema. It is extremely wild and unpredictable and strange. Rosalia is a huge pop star. She is a Spanish pop star who has a worldwide following.

she's performed on Saturday Night Live. Her albums, you know, crack the at or near the top of the charts. But I just love it when in an era in which, you know, so much of what we are given access to is dictated by all the dictates of commerce, to have artists who are given free reign to make wild art is so, so exciting. That is Rosalia and her new single, Birkheim. And that is what is making me have. this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at npr.org slash pop culture newsletter.

That brings us to the end of our show, Bedatri D. Chaudhry, Glenn Weldon, Aisha Harris. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you so much. I still don't know what to make of this film, but thanks, friends. We should cleanse your palate with that Rosalia video. Yes. All the clarity in the world. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin, Jene Morris, and Mike Katzen. and edited by our showrunner Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In, provides our theme music. Thanks for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR.

I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.