Pop Culture Happy Hour - Death By Lightning

Episode Date: November 13, 2025

Netflix’s Death by Lightning pits President James Garfield (Michael Shannon) against Charles Guiteau (Matthew McFadyen), the disgruntled would-be political operative who shot him. But it’s not quite the stuffy, stately historical drama that you – and your dad – are probably expecting. Toss in a brace of white middle-aged actors in great big bushy beards and sideburns – Shea Whigham, Nick Offerman, Bradley Whitford – and you’ve got yourself a show. Subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus at plus.npr.org/happyhour See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Netflix's Death by Lightning is a historical dramatic comedy or maybe comedic drama about the brief presidency and subsequent assassination of President James Garfield. And it's not quite the stuffy, stately take, that you and your dad are probably expecting. It pits actor Michael Shannon as Garfield against a squirly Matthew McFadion as Charles Gatow, the disgruntled would-be political operative who shot him. Toss in a brace of white middle-aged actors and great big bushy beards and sideburns, Chey Wiggum, Nick Offerman, Bradley Whitford, and you got yourself a show. I'm Glenn Weldon, and today we're talking about Death by Lightning on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Joining me today is NPR Culture Desk correspondent Chloe Veltman. Hey, Chloe. Hello, Glenn. Thanks for having me.

Of course. Also with us is Kristen Mineser. She co-hosts the Nightly on Hatch Plus. Hey, Kristen. Hey, excited to be back. Excited to have you. Death by Lightning stars Michael Shannon is James Garfield, a salt of the earth, Ohio congressman, who reluctantly accepts the nomination for president and ekes out a surprising win. He makes it through despite the wishes of party bosses representing different factions. They're led by Shea Wiggum and Bradley Whitford.

Nick Offerman shows up as a drunk, bluff, sausage-obsessed Chester Arthur, Garfield's vice president. And you got Pop Culture Happy Hour favorite, Betty Gilpin on hand as Garfield's wife Lucretia. Over the course of the four-episode series, a dishonest and self-aggrandizing schemer named Charles Gatow doggedly attempts to worm his way into the halls of power He's played by Matthew McFaddean.

Historical spoiler does not go well. Death by Lightning is streaming on Netflix. Kristen, what did you make of it? Okay, I have to say full disclosure first. I just happen to be a sucker for these kinds of slick, modern presidential biopic. So take what I say, knowing that. So here's the deal. I really enjoyed this.

I thought it delivered. It gave the excitement of bloody, bloody Andrew Jackson, the sincerity of John Adams, the sense of humor of Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter, had all these things I really love in these kinds of retellings. And I'm sure some people are going to take issue with the fact that Garfield is so saintly. He's essentially Ted Lassau in this. We'll talk. You know, Charles Gattot, he gives the ick so well through the whole thing.

I really enjoyed both of these characters. And I also enjoyed learning more about Garfield. What I knew about him was mostly about how his life. ended. I learned a little bit more about what platform he had. And it inspired me also this series to learn more about the truth of who he actually was in real life. Spoiler, he may not have been as perfect as the show tells us. In fact, he may have even canoodled with the same married woman that his biggest political rival did in real life. So not covered in the show. Not covered in the show, but you dug it. Okay. Chloe, you're a little bit more mixed,

I gather. Yeah, yeah. I agree with Kristen. For me, the most amazing thing was getting to about this president who to many people is just a footnote, I guess, in the ranks of American presidency. That for me was the most powerful thing. I was walking through Golden Gate Park here in San Francisco, where I have walked and run and cycled for 25 years, very frequently, since I lived in this city. And it wasn't until this week, having watched the show, that I noticed there's a massive bronze statue of Garfield. You know, it's amazing. It's like I'm seeing this person for the first time. And what a powerful character. There's a lot of. There's a lot of lot of good things about this series. Some of the settings, for example, inside the Republican

National Convention with its majesty and there's a wonderful women's boxing match in a theatre. I just really liked these massive crowd scenes, honestly, with lots of characters and you realize how intensely close people were physically in their lives then. There was no separation. People in power and all the lower class people, all mixing it up together. But I don't know. I mean, I think for me, the chief issue is the story. story of Garfield and Gatot is a bit of a non-starter. Gatot is just not really fundamentally that interesting a character. He's a boob, somebody who didn't have a lot going for him. And while I do think Matthew McFadion, who is one of my very, very favourite actors who share the same birthday,

and I've followed his career for years, ever since we used to work for the same theatre company in London. This is an actor who can do anything. And he does a lot with essentially a role that is, you know, not that interesting. And the writing, too, tries to make more and more and more of this character. But the real character is Garfield, and he's very bland. No matter what Michael Shannon does, this character just sort of seems quite nothing. And I was just found myself wishing I could have the real story of Garfield, more of that and less emphasis on, you know, the relationship that really didn't actually exist too much in real life between these two men. Okay. Well, in the tug of war of team, team Kristen and team Chloe, I'm kind of more on Team Chloe's side. I like this. This went down easy, maybe because it's good, maybe because I'm becoming my dad. You know, why not both? My favorite thing is the political machinations, which I thought were presented pretty nimbly. You got Bradley Whitford on the sidelines making all these political calculations. So there was a definite West Wing with Sideburn's vibe that it's giving off. And I'm here for that. And this cast, you can't ding this cast. You can bounce a quarter off this cast.

Shea Wiggum shows up. Whenever Shea Wiggum shows up, I'm happy. I think if you look to this script, his every stage direction would be chortles into his beard because that's all he really does in this show. And there's a lot of hair acting in this whole thing, too. There's a lot of hair. The facial hair alone, the hair and makeup budget, my God. And you got Betty Gilpin. And the script does try to give Betty Gilpin more to do than be the long-suffering wife. It doesn't entirely succeed, but it tries. And, you know, it's a law of the universe around here. Annie Gilpin is good Gilpin. Even when she shows up at the end in a great. Party City wig. I mean, where was the makeup budget that? Where was the hair and makeup budget that? And I didn't know that my life was lacking seeing Nick Offerman, like, stumbling around a hall, shouting, music, fighting, sausages. Music, fighting, sausages. That happens, and I was happy.

But I will say that kind of touches on the thing that challenged me about this show, which is from the first 45 minutes of the first episode or so. You think there's going to be a light comic touch threaded through every single scene of this thing. It's going to be part of it. But that comedy, that humor, drops out for long stretches of time. It does kick back in. But the problem there, as Chloe mentioned, is that when it's not doing the comedy, its approach to history is to flatten things into good guys and bad guys. And we are running right up to the edge of hagiography with this portrait of Garfield. I haven't checked if there's a James Garfield Reddit.

If there are James Garfield stands on there? I'm sure there is now. I mean, if you're out there and you've got I heart Jimmy G. on your butt, then this is the show you've been waiting for. I mean, that's a tattoo that I want, though. I'm so impressed with this man, honestly, because I read the book that the series is based on. See, that's it. This show, and probably the book, haven't read the book, probably wants you to think of this man as a capital G, capital M, great man of history. That's the thing that I thought was flat about the show. You felt like he was just painted as so good that he didn't seem human. Is that what you mean, Glenn? I thought he was painted as so good that he didn't seem interesting. This is one of the best actors of

our age. And it was just like, you know what reaction he's going to have to anything when the scene starts. And he has that reaction because that's how a great matter of history would react. Yeah, I mean, I will give you this for a lot of the series, for like the first half, his biggest flaws is that he hasn't finished building a table or something like that. That's like the biggest flaw he has. But it does become more nuanced as we go along. We do see his daughter takes him aside and says, what's up with your anti-racism? It doesn't apply to Chinese people. Yeah, that's true. Let's talk about some of your flaws here. But I would We'll say this. I agree with both of you, Glenn and Chloe, that I think it would have made him a rich or more interesting character if we did dig into more of his other flaws. He wasn't a great husband, for example. And he wasn't as perfect as the show makes him out to be Chloe. I'm sure you can speak to this more, having read the book. He was not a perfect man. No, he wasn't a perfect man. But I think that you can create drama without necessarily dwelling a lot on the imperfectitudes of this character. I mean, yes, you

can get into that. But I think the problem fundamentally is that the dramatic relationship in this series exists between Garfield and his assassin. That actually in reality is no real relationship there. The two actually barely meet. Garfield does not register Gitoe very much at all in his life. But for Gitoe, Garfield is huge. The real drama, and I wish there had been more of this is between Garfield and his many, many adversaries in politics. The real, shall we say, villain of Garfield's life and also of the series, I think is the New York Senator Conkling. Yes. You know, of all the hair in the series has the best hair. That little kind of weird kiss curl thing he has in the middle. That's Shea Wiggum. Yeah, Shea Wiggum. So Wiggum, Wiggum. Yes. So, you know, I wanted more of that because to me that's where the drama

truly lies. And I found myself thinking, as I think Michael Shannon did in the New York Times when he spoke about this series, Shannon said, had Garfield been able to serve out his term or had a second term, we could be living in an entirely different present based on what he started, what his vision was, his dream for the country, perhaps it would be less divided. And, you know, I did get me thinking, what if this series had actually gone down that road, You know, made it not really so much about Gito versus Garfield, which I think is a bit of a non-starter, frankly, and been more about, well, what would this guy have done, actually? And there have been plenty of drama in that, I think. Chloe, what I'm getting from you is something that I feel when I watch movies like Serendipity or Sleepless in Seattle.

The two protagonists we don't even see together until the last 30 seconds of the movie. And that, for me, can be very frustrating. So it's not that I don't understand what you're saying, Chloe. but I think I was just entertained enough with the acting, the showmanship, the theatrics, and, you know, the West Wing stuff that you were mentioning, Glenn. That was good enough for me. And I really was impressed with Matthew McFaddean's ability to give Ick. I have never seen Ick done so well. He's so good at giving Ick.

Yeah, he's great. I want to talk about the characterization of Get Toe. I want to drill down on that because it's interesting. It's good, but I think it could have been great. and I do not fault the actor here, I think it's the show's approach. Every time we see him, he's a fool, he's a grifter, that's kind of all he is.

The script does give him these moments where he gets to express, you know, strong moral convictions, but we're meant to see those moments as opportunistic and calculating. And he's never really given a chance to be anything but that. And when he set up against the cynical party bosses,

it doesn't matter if his convictions are real or not because the cynical party bosses reject him. And I think we are left to maybe decide for ourselves if they reject him because they see right through him, him, or maybe they see some of themselves in his, you know, manipulativeness. But there is a real tonal wobble here because, again, when Garfield's on screen, it's a drama. When Gattot's on screen, it's a comedy. That doesn't deepen or complicate either of their characters. And I go back and forth with thinking, you know what was wrong with the show? We didn't get enough Gatow. I don't know

if that's true with these writers because every time we see him, to the extent he's compelling, he's compelling in just the one way. You know what you're going to get from him. Yeah. I mean, I will say, I agree, though, with Kristen, that Mac Fadians, performance is masterful. I mean, he's so unhinged as Gittow. The slightly too long beard that's scruffy, his grubby suits, those moist puppy dog eyes. And the way he protectively clutches the valise that he always has with him, you know, there's this wonderful mixture of madness and also childlike optimism in that performance. It's very powerful. It reminds me a little bit of his role in succession. Also a very sort of dislikable, icky kind of a character.

also with those sorts of moist eyes and the striveness of him, you know, is very, very similar. I cannot think of an actor who could try to clothe this rather, you know, non-entity of a character, frankly, and make him something powerful. And, I mean, for me, he held my attention and did the most that you could possibly do with it. Yeah. Now, the odd thing about this series is it's four episodes long, so it doesn't really have the Netflix bloat. But its focus is not where I thought it was going to be. If you know anything about Garfield, besides the fact that whenever you're not, his name is mentioned on the internet, people make lasagna and Monday jokes.

It's that he did not die until months after he was shot. And the historical narrative that has arisen around this, whether or not it's true, is that Dr. Willard Bliss went rooting around in the body for the bullet with unstererized instruments and maybe that's what killed him. His finger. His fingers. Yeah, his filthy bare hands. Right. That is like the jeopardy clue about Garfield.

That's the only thing people really know. And I kind of thought, given that, we would spend a lot of time in those months. but we don't. You see that the actor Jelko Ivannick is playing him, and he's one of those guys who tends to play bad guys, and whenever he shows up, you're like, oh, here it comes, and it doesn't really ever come. And they also cast Kyle Saller from Andor as Robert Todd Lincoln. And to my memory, that day doesn't have any dialogue. So I thought we were going to spend a lot of more time in this kind of medical malpractice area, and it kind of zips by in a few minutes. And I will say that, Glenn, that I found that part of the book hard to read. I found it a little dull, honestly. It's all about the jostling of different doctors, jostling for power, and all the different medical ideas of the day. You know, I didn't find that material so very compelling. But of course, you could create a really interesting show around medical practice of Victorian times and looking forward to what's going on today, for example. Either debunking the myth or fully bunking it.

Either like just telling us what actually happened. Yeah. I mean, I have to say, I know a lot about his death. I've read a lot about it. I've listened to a lot of podcasts about it. Really gross. If you have a delicate stomach, I suggest don't read too many details about some of the things they did to him and what his body was doing during these last two months. But I really appreciated that the show went beyond that because I do think that there are a lot of people like me who's like, that's all they know about him.

And for me, I really appreciated having the door open to who he was as a person, not just who he was on his deathbed. And like I said earlier, it did entice me to read more about his life not on his deathbed and learn more about his marriage, learn more about his politics and so on. So I appreciate that the show did that for me. I already kind of alluded to this, but there's one big thing for me that I love that is different to how politics is done today. And the fact that, you know, you can physically rub shoulders with celebrities like big politicians and presidents even in that. era. They didn't have the security that anybody who's even vaguely renowned has today. And I find that very, very interesting. But, you know, that's very, very different to the times we live in today where, you know, the idea that you could get within, I don't know, many, many, many feet

of the president of USA unless you are in his inner circle. That's very different now. It is. All right. Well, we want to know what you think about this show. Are you on team Chloe? Are you on Team Kristen, or are you somewhere in the wishy-washy middle, like Team Glenn? We are on Facebook and Letterbox. That brings us to the end of our show. Kristen Mineser, Chloe of Belton. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you.

Thanks so much, Glenn. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio, and you get to listen to all of our episodes sponsor-free, so please go find out more at plus.bop.npr.org slash happy hour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode was produced by Carly Rubin and Mike Katzif and Edith. by our showrunner, Jessica Riddy, and Hello, come in, provides our theme music.

Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all next time.