Pop Culture Happy Hour - Fictional teachers we wish we had

Episode Date: August 26, 2026

It’s back to school season, which has us thinking about our favorite teachers. The ones who really saw us, changed our points of view, or set us on new paths. But of all the teachers we've seen in TV and movies, which of them do we wish we'd had to educate us in real life? Today we’re talking about fictional on-screen teachers – from My Girl, My So-Called Life, Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit and Dune: Part One. If you like want more episodes like this one, check out:The reality TV show I'd like to judgeThe TV show I'd like to live inThe American dream according to ‘The Wire,’ ‘Apollo 13’ and moreConnect with Pop Culture Happy Hour:Letterboxd / FacebookOur weekly newsletterSupport public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening. Learn more at plus.npr.org.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

But I think of Lucas having gone to Yoda for an advanced class in Get Over Yourself, which he needs. He needs at that point. And can I just say, do or do not, there is no try? Patently false. There is try. That's absolutely true. That's not a thing. Trying and failing is a thing. We all had favorite teachers growing up, the ones who really saw us, changed our points of view, set us on new paths. Fictional teachers do the same thing for their students. So we asked ourselves, of all the teachers we've seen in TV and movies, which of them do we wish we'd had to educate us in real life? I'm Linda Holmes. Joining me today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour are my fellow hosts Aisha Harris. Hello, Aisha. Hello, Linda. And Glenn Weldon. Hi, Glenn. Hey, Linda. And also with us delightfully is B.A. Parker. She's

one of the hosts of NPR's Coat Switch podcast. Hello, Parker. Hello. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Well, Ayesha, I'm going to start with you. When we think about fictional teachers, we would most like to have had, who did you choose? Oh, man. This was hard. Once I was staring down, you know, the barrel of, okay, now I have to answer this question. I wound up realizing there's been a lot of great fictional TV and movie and pop culture teachers. But the one that I wound up landing on is none other than Sister Mary Clarence from Sister Act 2. Of course. also known as lounge singer Dolores Wilson Van Cartier Look, Sister Act 2 I'm not sure, it's one of those movies

that I think is very, very much rooted My love of it is rooted in nostalgia. It is not necessarily a great movie But Whoopi Goldberg is great Oh, Parker. It's a phenomenal movie. Keep going, keep going. It's a phenomenal movie.

Okay, we will talk about that in a second. But you may remember that in the first movie, Sister Act 1, Whoopi Goldberg is playing a lounge singer, Delores Wilson Van Cartier. And she has to go into witness production after witnessing a mob execution. So she joins the convent under the alias sister Mary Clarence. And then she helps revitalize the nun's choir. But then in Sister Act 2, she's back to Louncing in Vegas at the beginning of the movie. But the same nuns who she worked with in the first movie recruit her to return to the San Francisco Catholic school she attended when she was a kid.

The school's like in disarray. It's under threat of all the kids not having any education. So she becomes the music teacher to a group of bright but rag-tag bunch of high schoolers, which includes Lauren Hill, a young Lauren Hill right around the time of the Fugis and she's playing Rita. And Rita is kind of the, she's the sassy, like, I don't want this woman here. The other kids are kind of like, oh, maybe we'll do with her. But Rita's like, no, this woman, she's not. This woman, she's not coming. She's not going to make us do work. Music class is supposed to be where we just like, we just fool around and we don't do anything. This has all the tropes of, you know, droopy, self-serious movies about teacher saviors who change their troubled students' lives.

You know, just sir with love, stand and deliver, dangerous minds. This is that movie in a way, and it's also loosely based on a true story, which is something I just recently learned. I had no idea, but it's based on a actual. Yes, Parker. Okay, it's not just me. I had no idea. It's like many of those other movies, like Dangerous Minds and whatever, it's based on a true story very, very loosely of an academic named Iris Stevenson. They basically retrofitted Iris Stevenson's life into the sequel.

There's a whole backstory, but anyway. Not originally in Witness Protection. No, she, no, that part was not true. Her story came in here. Yeah, like I said, this movie, it's very, very tropey. Are the kids sassy and undisciplined? Yes. Does Dolora slash Mary decide early on that they're helpless and she threatens to tap out on teaching?

Of course that moment happens. So she quickly recommit to teaching and then win them over with her stern but whimsical and emotionally attentive instruction. You bet your butt she does. And it's amazing. I love it. Wooby Goldberg slash Sister Mary Clarence is so good at like tapping into what you would want from a teacher. She is someone who approaches these kids as if they are human beings who deserve respect. She doesn't look down on them.

She doesn't patronize them. She has, I think, what the best kind of teachers have, which is like this ability to interact with them as equals. There's a great scene, and I want to play just a moment of it. She's asking everyone, all the students to come up with their own ways to sing Mary had a little lamb. And one of her students, Maria, doesn't actually know Mary had a little lamb. The other kids start teasing her, and Sister Mary Clarence says this. Because maybe, maybe where Maria came from, Mary had a doll. Or a little kid a cat.

Or a little ball-headed brother named Bach. It is not her fault that she doesn't know it, and we're not going to hold that against her. No, we are not. Compassion! She can give it to the kids. She can go back and forth. She can sass them right back. But she also is, like, a safe place.

She is a safe home. And I loved that about the best of my teachers. They were teachers who I felt like they were talking to me as if I was a human being, as if I may not have been as mature and old as they were and experienced and wise. But they understood that I could be. And they set me on the path. And I think that's what makes Sister Mary Clarence just like the perfect teacher, like the ideal kind of teacher you want.

And she's fun. And she has a pass. Like I love a teacher who has a pass. Like she was a loud singer. That's cool. She had to go into witness protection. She's lived a life. She's lived a life. She's lived a life. Parker, I get the feeling you are also a Sister Mary Clarence fan. 100%. She's the reason why I sought out letters to a young poet, but like real good. Like because of Sister Act 2, she's like, if you want to be somebody, if you want to go somewhere, you better wake up and pay attention. And pay attention. Nothing but like guidance and wisdom from Sister Mary Clarence. The woman could do no wrong. Also the subtitle, let's not sleep on the subtitle, which is, of course.

Back in the habit. Very, very good. Yeah, I enjoy those movies as well. You're making me want to go back and watch those movies again, I wish. And that's all I can really ask. They're so fun. Of you. I went back to one of the most influential shows to me of kind of my early career caring about good television, which was my so-called life, which aired in 1994 and 1995.

And I chose this character named Mr. Katimski. who was played by Jeff Perry, who later played the very, very evil Cyrus on scandal for a number of years and is an incredibly versatile, wonderful actor. And Mr. Katimski on my so-called life sort of comes in as this somewhat discombobulated teacher in the middle of the school year who has to come in and kind of pick up as the English teacher and starts to take an interest in the different students. And one of the students that he gets to know really well is Ricky Vasquez, who is a young, gay kid who is still sort of working all of that out. Remember, this is the mid-90s. And eventually Ricky becomes unhoused. And Mr. Katimski sort of figures out that Ricky is unhoused because he's been kicked out of his home. He's been abused and kicked out of his house. And there's a wonderful episode called Resolutions in which Mr. Ketimskiy sort of.

Ketimski gradually figures out that what he needs to do is give this kid a place to stay for a while. And what I love about it, it turns out that Mr. Ketimski is himself gay and lives with his partner. And there's a wonderful scene in which he speaks to his partner about two things, one of which is he knows exactly how this potentially is going to look to people and be taken by people if people find out, you know, it doesn't appear that everybody necessarily knows that he's gay at the school. You realize what people could make of it? I lose my job. Be crucified. I didn't say anything. What am I supposed to do?

Which is very realistic. He's very worried about how this will look. They don't pretend that that wouldn't be on his mind and that it wouldn't prevent him from potentially taking this kid in. But he also says it feels so egotistical for me to pretend that I am the answer to all the problems that this kid is having. Right. And in the end, he does let Ricky come and stay. But Jeff Perry in that episode to me gives one of the best performances, I think, across that entire show. He is so kind and sort of quirky and odd.

And what I love about Mr. Katimski is that there is in him such genuine exasperation with students sometimes. He would kind of come into classrooms and be like, why are you all like this? Answer me when I talk to you. What's going on? But also deeply, deeply compassionate. But also with the humility to understand, it's not a great idea for me to be taking in kids, right? That's not what you would want to happen because there are several multiple pitfalls for the kid and for you. You know, one of the great things that my so-called life always did is they incorporated the idea that one piece of growing up is coming to appreciate the good adults that you know.

It happens very much with Angela's mother, Patty, played by Best Armstrong. That's also one of the big pieces of it. And I think Mr. Katimski is one of those people who, many years later, students will be like, oh, my gosh, Mr. Katimski. He was so great. I thought he was such a dork at the time. I didn't, I thought he was so weird and, like, kind of obnoxious. But in retrospect, I love him.

So I love Mr. Katimski. Every time I go back and watch my so-called life, I'm blown away again by how good it is. Delightful. Delightful. And I love Jeff Perry in this part. There's always like this sub-trop that's always on these TV shows of like the substitute teacher that comes in and like changes the protagonist's life for an episode and then you never see him again. Because I was like, I'm saved by the bell or like. Mr. Bergstrom on The Simpsons. Yeah. And then they like, it's a very dead poet society propped up in these like moments. And I'm always appreciative of it. But also I'm like, now the kids are going to like go back to being who. who they were before, and that's a shame.

Yeah. For sure. And he's, the good thing is he does come and stay for the rest of that season, you know, so he does kind of become their teacher and get to know the kids over the course of the second part of the season. And the other thing, you know, when you mention the substitute teachers, there isn't also wonderful episode of my so-called life about a sort of very charismatic, cool teacher played by Roger Reese, who was Robin Colcord on Cheers.

Yeah. Oh, right. And unlike Mr. Katimsky, who's a very dorky teacher who really cares about you, he's a very kind of ego-forward, charismatic, I'm going to be the cool guy. They're all going to love me. And they all do. And they're like, oh, he's so cool. He's so wonderful. And then at the end, he turns out to really be a bum. And they all learn that he is essentially running from child support obligations. So it's kind of a turn on that thing where, like, the kids are all fascinated by this really cool teacher. And then it

turns out that he's kind of a dirtbag. So I always liked that because it's kind of self-conscious about that trope of cool, charismatic teacher versus actually caring teacher. Never trust a teacher that like sits backwards in the chair on the first day of school. I think that was parodied on community too at one point. You know, one of my college teachers told me once, good teachers want students, not disciples. Exactly. A word. Yeah.

All right, class. We are going to take a quick break. you can get a drink of water or get up and stretch your legs. We'll be talking about more of our favorite fictional teachers when we come back. Okay, we're back. We're ready. I'm going to call on Parker here in the front row. Parker, who did you pick?

Oh, boy. I mean, there's so many to choose from. I was going to choose Sister Mary Clarence, but I was like, that's probably going to get selected. Really? I was like that totally, someone, of course, is going to choose that. Or, like, maybe Robin Williams in The Poet Society. I was like, I was always like a coach kid in those 90s. movies like a

Jeff Bridges and a white squall like an Amelia West ofez and the Mighty Ducks like that kind of we can unpack that later but for my selection

I chose Mr. Bixler from the movie My Girl who was played by Griffin Dunn so for those who have not watched

My Girl in I don't know 30 years it's a story about like an 11 year old girl named Veda Sultanfus played by

Anna Klombski who is going through like every coming of age possible in one summer. Like she gets her first kiss. She gets her period. Her dad gets his first girlfriend ever since her mom died. Grandma's got dementia. Spoiler.

Childhood best friend played by McCulloch and dies from a swimer bees. And like in the midst of all of this, she has a crush on this much older teacher, Mr. Bixler, played by Griffin Dunn. Who is aware of this fact? And most importantly, he is not a perv. This is also a thing that I had to unpack of trying to think of all the childhood media that I consumed that involve like a young female student and like a male teacher. Something was wrong.

So it was inappropriate was happening. And this is just like a guy who sees a girl having like a really tough time. And she wants to be a writer. And during the summer she does all of her summer reading. And he's like, I'm doing this like adults, a creative writing course. and she signs up for it. And he's like, well, this is for adults. She's like, well, I can do it.

And he lets her participate. He doesn't patronize her. He's like everyone, all the adults, including him, are welcoming to her and her creativity. In fact, like, pushes her to be like, hey, I think you have more to say. And I want you to dig deep into your soul. You're not expressing to me what's in your soul. I want you to show me how you see the world, your fears,

your desires, your innermost secrets. Because he's like, I believe in you, in an appropriate way for an English teacher at that time to help cultivate a student. And I think about the art that was created during that time, when it came to like coming of age for like a young girl, there wasn't a lot of these kind of movies. It was always like, how do we make these young men better?

So I was like, oh, men can be creative. Who knew? I remembered as a kid being really drawn to Mr. Bixler. Who does, like, Griffin's done doesn't have a lot of time in that movie. He hasn't been, like, four scenes or something. But they were enough to kind of, like, shape her and make her become a better artist in the midst of all of this heavy stuff that is happening to her. And I was always appreciative of that because I think about, like, my media brains,

like, there's always, like, Amy and Isabel or, like, never been kissed, or, like, even Mr. Holland's opus. when it's like a young female student and like an adult teacher who crosses a line somewhere. And I've watched enough like Michael Hanneke as a teenager to be like, this is going to go poorly. He was always like a breath of fresh air of just like a guy who knew like this little girl had a crush on him, but was still just going to be like, I want you to be the best that you can be. And how can I be of service to that? And I just always appreciate it. He was just appreciative that like a kid did the summer reading.

It was a soft place to land for a little girl going through a lot of stuff. And I was always appreciative of that, comparative to other things. I love this, Barker, because my only reference to this film is the one scene that has been heavily memed, the bee scene. The bees, yeah. The bees? He needs his glasses. He can't see what that as far. And as soon as those glasses fall to the ground, you know what's done for her.

I'm the same way, actually. I've seen this movie, but I saw it when I was a kid. And then I only remember being pretty traumatized by the B scene, so I never returned to it. So I don't even remember this character. But I'm so with you, Parker, on like that sort of trope and always that unease that comes with so many of those shows and movies from the 90s where it was like, or even it could have been vice versa. Where it's like female teacher and a male student. There's so many ways you can go wrong or get really, really creepy. And it's always nice when you can like imagine that.

that an adult male teacher can have a student and there be no ill intention whatsoever. Yeah, I think this is a good pick too. I want to say Thomas J. McClego, he died so late in the movie. Like, it's a short movie. It doesn't even because it's a blip. And then, like, immediately after, like, the funeral, she runs to Mr. Bixler for, like, comfort. And she sees that, like, his girlfriend's moving in. And he's like, well, yeah, I'm like, I'm 35 years old.

There's a woman going to live with me. She's heartbroken. I'm like, you're 11. It's okay. But it's like there's too many coming of ages for an 11-year-old that summer. Yeah. But it's like, I don't know. It's like a really, it's like a good teacher who wanted her to be her best and like be around other adults who encourage that.

Like it's supposed to be funny that these adults are like welcoming her into the fold in this writing course. Like just like like a juxtaposition. But it's actually really sweet. Like encouraging. And I just, I love that. I love it too. I haven't seen this movie in a long time, but I do remember that storyline. I wouldn't have been able to call it to mind.

But when you mention it, I do remember her joining the writing group and that it's a really lovely part of that movie. So that is Mr. Bixler from My Girl. Thank you, Parker. I see somebody going, ooh, ooh, ooh with their hand up. I'm going to call on Glenn. Sitting in the back of Trumbaker. That's me, baby. Uh-huh.

Troublemaker. I'm glad that we all, it sounds like some of you struggled with this. I struggled with us in a big way. I mean, Linda, it seemed like you had this guy in your back pocket, right? A little bit, a little bit. Okay. Because I really, I was sifted into the Rolodex here, and I was like, so many teachers in fiction, they're either romanticized, idealized, certainly sentimentalized in a big way, or they are just terrible people. And I was originally going to go with Miss Jean Brody from the book, play, and movie, The Prime of Miss Jean Brody.

Muriel Spark wrote the novel. There's a 1969 movie starring Maggie. Smith, which is probably why I wanted to go with her. Because, you know, she's a schoolteacher in Edinburgh in the 1930s at an all-girls school. And Maggie Smith is just jumping into that Scottish bar with both brooks. And I just watch clips online of this movie just to hear her talk and say things like, my favorite painter is Jotto. Like, I just love it. I decided against her because funny thing about Miss Jean Brody is she's a fascist. She loves Franco and Mussolini. She's a snob. And she favors her.

certain students and encourages them to think of themselves as above everybody else. And she's also kind of a procurer. She hooks up her very young students with members of faculty. So it's dark. But what I like about that story is that it's honest. It's grappling with something that we've already mentioned this notion of disciples, like this notion of teachers who create little cults around themselves as being a potentially hugely manipulative and destructive kind of force.

It's the kind of thing that a movie like Dead Poets Society kind of glorifies. And I, one of the reasons I hate that movie. So in the end, I decided to go with a much healthier, or at least more me, choice, which is the Benny Jesuit Reverend Mother Gaias Helen Mohime from the books and films Dune by Frank Herbert. Let's acknowledge, look, I see it, guys. The Benny Jesuit are a kind of sinister political force in the universe, and they conduct genetic manipulation over many generations, and they seed planets with religious propaganda to further their interests.

I mean, they're also probably fascists. They're stealth fascists. I was going to say, this is we're circled around fascism again here. Yeah. And now that I say that out loud, as stealth fascist is probably worse. But it's okay. Commit to the bit. I'm sure there's some listeners that are out there thinking she's not a teacher.

She doesn't teach classes. She's a politician. She's a religious figure. I would argue. I would put it to you. The very first thing we see her doing in Dune is famously she comes to Polatradis planet to administer

a test. That's a teacher, baby, and the test she administers is to young Politradis. She has him put his hand in a pain box, which is just what it says on the tin, and then she puts a poison needle at his throat, her gum jabar. The test is

can he control his impulses? As the pain increases, if he pulls his hand out, she will stab him, and he going to die. Let's stipulate her methods pedagogically suspect. But effective. Can't argue with results. You talk about taking this Montessori

learned by doing thing a little extreme, but here's why I want her as my teacher in both. The David Lynch Dune from 1984 and the Deneve-Ele-Nove more recent dunes. This character is the best thing

in the movie on skates. I mean, like, not coincidentally the queerest thing in these movies. She is a diva. She is mother. She's an icon. She's a legend. She is the moment.

Now, come on. Now, she gets the best lines. is the thing. She's basically kind of Lady Bracknell in space and that means, because of all that, she gets to be played by amazing women.

Sean Phillips in the David Lynch film and Charlotte freaking rambling in the Denis Villeneuve films and in both cases the fits are on point. You know, rambling is wearing this very thick veil, but you can still see those eyes.

You can still see those Charlotte rambling eyes. And the thing I hate most in fiction is these sentimental portrayals of teachers, this character is where sentimentality goes to die. It is the heat death of sentimentality. Yeah, sounds like it. Why are you doing this? An animal caught in a trap will gnaw of its own leg to escape.

What will you do? Is she a villain? Or does she just know what she wants? You know what I'm saying? It could be both. See, I thought you were going to go with like Yoda. Yeah, yeah. Yoda, Gandalf.

Yeah, I guess that's two on the nose. Josh Rowland in the Dune? Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think this is a good choice for you, Glenn. I think, like, from what I remember of Dune, I have seen both movies, the ones that have come out so far. She is the most memorable part of that movie. Absolutely.

And I think there is something to be said for the teachers who may be teaching evil, but are still teaching nonetheless. There is some skill involved with that, I guess, maybe. Someone else, someone else, jump in here. You are getting a girl, I guess, for me. Yeah, I thought you were going to pick, yeah, like Yoda or Gandalf. I feel like fantasy is full of characters who teach. I mean, if you think about the whole idea of the chosen one type of character, you know, they're very often taught by someone.

They're very often guided by someone. It doesn't have to be someone evil. I figured you might pick one of those people or or. Evil is a choice. One of the other classics, like Mr. Miyagi, you know, one of the ones I thought about. But with the chosen one narrative, like Luke didn't need Yoda. Luda abandons Yoda. Like, Luke just, you know, he pieces out.

He gets these homilies, these little... Disagree that he did not need Yoda. Yeah, because isn't the point that you teach as much as the student needs to know? And then the whole point is that if you teach them well, then they don't actually need you. Or, like, they can go out on their own and use those tools. Yeah, yeah. But I think of Lucas having gone to Yoda for an advanced class and get over yourself, which he needs. He needs at that point.

And can I just say, do or do not, there is no try, patently false. There is try. That's absolutely true. That's not a thing. Trying and failing is a thing. Does Paul need this lady? Does Paul Atreides need this lady? That's true.

Does Paul need this teacher? You know, he needs to learn to control his impulses. And then he doesn't really. As the story goes on. You know what Paul Trady's needed? Yoda. Get over yourself. That whole movie to me screams,

this kid needs to get over himself. He needed Yoda. Yeah, but the Reverend mother dresses better, so. That's fair. That's fair. All right. We have had a wonderful time talking about our favorite fictional teachers that brings us to the end of our show,

B.A. Parker, Aisha Harris, Glenn Weldon. Thank you so much for being here. You're all a delight to have in class. Oh, thank you. Oh, thank you. Thanks. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger, Hufsofothamah, and Mike Katzif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Audio engineering was performed by Sina Lofredo.

And Hello, Come In, provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next time.