Pop Culture Happy Hour - Fight Or Flight

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

The new action movie Fight or Flight finds Josh Hartnett playing a onetime Secret Service agent who is pressured into one more job: fighting off a series of increasingly over-the-top assassins trying to kill a mysterious criminal. And they're all packed onto a plane together. Plus, what's making us happy, including a classic R&B song, a new sports documentary series and a iconic thriller.To access bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening for Pop Culture Happy Hour, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour+ at plus.npr.org/happy. Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

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If you like fighting and you like flying, have I got a movie for you? The new action thriller, fight, or flight finds Josh Hartnett playing a one-time Secret Service agent who is pressured. It doesn't matter how, into one more job. That job? Fight off a series of increasingly over-the-top assassins trying to kill a mysterious criminal. Oh, and they're all packed on to a plane together. I'm Linda Holmes, and today we're talking about fight or flight on pop culture happy hour from NPR. Joining me today is the host of Weekend Edition Sunday, Aisha Roscoe. Welcome back, Ayesha.

Glad to be back. Glad to be here. Also with us is Ronald Young Jr. He's the host of the film and television review podcast, Leaving the Theater. Hello, Ronald. Welcome back. Hello, Linda. I prefer fighting over flying. Awesome. Glad to hear it. Fight or flight stars Josh Hartnett as a grimy, blue, Leach blonde goofoff named Lucas Reyes, who is drinking his way through the next phase of his life after losing his job as a secret service agent. A former colleague, played by Katie Sackoff, gets in touch and tells him that he might just make his way back into a respectable career if he does her a favor.

The favor? A sought-after criminal hacker, thief, and mischief maker, known only as The Ghost, is known to be boarding a 16-hour flight to the United States. And Lucas needs to find. and escort this person so they can be successfully captured. It's kind of a long story. He might be able to get help from the flight crew, including Bridgerton's Cherithra Chandran, as flight attendant Isha. But it turns out that there's a big assassin-shaped fly in the ointment. Everybody in the world has got a bounty on the ghost's head, and the flight information has been leaked. So every mercenary out there who kills people for money is packed on to this flight, which apparently has no rule against bringing guns, knives, throwing blades, or any other weapon right on to the plane with you to your seat. Oh, and as it turns out, they want to kill

Lucas, too. So what follows is an incredibly silly, bloody, high-energy series of fights in which practically every object you can find on a plane is used in an act of violence as Lucas and the Ghost forged an uneasy alliance so they can try to get themselves safely back on the ground. I barely know where to begin. I just spent, I think, more time explaining this plot than they spend actually conveying it to you in the movies. But I'm going to start with you, Aisha.

How did you feel about fight or flight? Well, I enjoyed it. It didn't make me want to fight or fly or runaway. Like, it was really fun. Like, I think that this is the type of movie that you want to just escape to. Now, as far as the story and like, what, the background. Yeah.

I didn't care about none of that. No. It was just like, assassins on a plane. Yeah. Okay. And the best parts were where it was just like, now it's time to fight. Yes, exactly. You know, even the pilots are funny.

Like, everybody's kind of like just, everybody gets that this is not, you know, Schindler's list. No. This is just fun and everybody's having fun and killing people. I enjoyed that. Yeah. It is one of probably the bloodiest movies I have personally ever. I did look at it as like, this is like rated R. Like this is like, this is bloody.

It really is. And I was thinking as I was watching it, I was like, I think they spent the entire budget on A, Josh Hartnett, B, fight choreography, and C, fake blood. I think that is where most of the money went, given the way that this movie works, I think rightly so. Ronald, how did this strike you? I think I'm here for the Josh Hartnett Renaissance as we were talking about off mic a little bit earlier. Like, I really enjoyed seeing him show back up. And this version of him is just, he's magnetic. You really want to watch him and you believe what he's doing. And in this film, I was rooting for him. I, like, I really

enjoyed him. But I feel like my biggest issue, and I have this problem with movies that we like that are fun, which is that I know with just maybe a one to two percentage change, this is a movie that can go from watching it while you're folding your laundry to making a billion dollars at the box office because we're really enjoying it. No, that's true. If you look at the Fast and Furious series, there are three movies smack dab in the middle of those movies that are really good action movies. It's Fast and Furious, Fast Five, and Fast and Furious Six.

If you go seven through ten, they just decide that we don't even care. Eat your slop, y'all. And I feel like that this movie is skews to that end of the spectrum. But that doesn't mean I won't watch a sequel as it seems to set up for at the end. It doesn't mean I'm not interested as it goes on. But I feel like there are parts of this where I'm like, we're downright John Wickian. As far as I was concerned, I was like, okay, I see what y'all are doing. And you're using Josh Hartnett.

Yeah. The Josh Hartnett at the center of this, I'm here for it launching him into action franchise stardom. But the movie is kind of poorly constructed around him. I think that's true. I think like this is emphatically a B movie. Yes. Emphatically. That is its aesthetic. I think they are leaning into that very intentionally. This is one of those many, the many, many, many things you see now where the first thing you see when you get there is like this sequence that's like very crazy. And then it's like,

how did we get here? And then it's like, you know, two days earlier. And then you go through the whole thing. I think when you see that sequence, when I saw that sequence, I thought there is no way this is part of a real movie. Like, it's too out there. It's just too bizarre. But by the time you get to it, it's like you're kind of ready for the fact that it all happens. Yes.

You know, Ronald, you mentioned John Wick. One of the things that I said about this movie after I saw it was, to me, this is like if John Wick and Shark Nato had a baby. It's like... Or snakes on a plane. Yes. Either one, though. It has like the very violent, but also sometimes extremely entertaining.

and sometimes quite witty fight sequences of like a John Wick, but it also has the completely silly refusal to take itself seriously at all of something like Sharknado. Yes. And I do think Hartnett, you know, you said magnetic and it's weird. I just felt like from the minute that he came on the screen, I was like, yes, I'm watching this guy, I'm here for this guy. They have him fight, especially the first fight that he participates in.

he's in these clothes and he's in like a pink shirt. Yes. On him they look like Army Green Capri pants and vans. And it's just such an unusual way for a guy to look in a fight that I really responded to it. Like this is really fun. That's also a fight that takes place in enclosed space that I really liked. It's also a fight, I will say, with a final move that as far as I can remember, I've

never seen a way of concluding a fight that I have. have never seen before. Well, and I didn't see where that thing came from. Or was that a sprinkler? Yeah. It's a fire sprinkler. It's a fire sprinkler. Okay. Whoever's listening just, you know, you'll get it when you see it. You'll get it. And it's quite a thing. To me, what won me over about this was its sense of humor about itself. There's a moment in particular where he hits a guy with a laptop and they put a button on that move. Yes. That was so funny to me that I sort of bark laughed at that. That was incredible, yes. And I think that sense of humor kept it going, even though, as both of you have already talked about, the story is like, I used to call this a hum-through plot where you just want to just like hum to yourself while they're explaining the plot and just don't pay attention to it.

Because this is the thing that we've spoken about with like Marvel movies where I sometimes feel like, just tell me there's a box, everyone wants the box. You don't have to go to a lot of trouble to explain to me what's in the box or what the box does. they come very close in this movie to doing that. Yeah. And I will admit, I don't quite know exactly what they were after or why it was so important. Yes.

I think I was humming through that part of the movie, honestly. Our producer, Hufsa, who also saw this movie, said to me afterwards, what exactly was in the box? And my response to her began, I think. You know, they're playing quite fast and loose with all of that. But with all that said, like, I have fun. Yeah. I feel like there was one part of it that I felt like Josh Hartnett's performance was hilarious.

No matter what they wrote, he made it work. He made it work with his acting. But there was a couple of parts in there where I felt like editing wise and direction wise. I'm like, this could have been, again, percentage of points funnier. Yeah. There's a scene in which he's talking, he says the word killbox. and he says it over and over. And I'm like, that could have been funnier,

but they edited it in such a weird way that they kind of kept these long takes of it in there where I'm just like, no, this is just like a reaction shot back and forth. Killbox, cut to the Killbox. Like, that's what we should be doing here. So I felt like those were the little parts of it where I'm like, I think that's why I liked it because I know in someone else's hands,

this same movie, again, billion dollars box office. But right now, the fact that it's going to theaters is surprising me because I'm like, If this was on Netflix, I'd be telling everybody, oh, yeah, definitely turn this almost on the afternoon. That's my thing with this is I liked it and enjoyed it, but in this day and age, does it get you to the movie theater? No. That's the only thing that to me, I know everyone wants to be in the theaters, but to me, this works better streaming. Yeah.

Then someone, like, what I do, I want to go and spend my money to see specifically this? Yeah. When I could see something else, I could see six. I can see a Marvel movie. I got kids. I ain't seen it the first time. I got you to adjust. Yeah, I get it.

I have mixed feelings about that. I thought about that, too. If I were confident that there were going to be a lot of people in the theater, I think I would go watch this in a theater again. Agreed. Yes, that would be fun. Yes. There are some fight moments where I suspect if you were in there with a big group of people,

the crowd would be extremely hyped up. and having a great time. Yes. But I do think this movie will probably have a much more impressive life as a streaming movie after its theatrical run. Now, I will also say, I have to say, at the beginning of this movie, I watched this whole film in such a state of disbelief about everything that I was seeing. And it began, you know how they always have like a bunch of production logos at the beginning before? before the movie starts. Yes. One of them says,

Screen Media, a chicken soup for the soul entertainment company. Now, this is because chicken soup for the soul bought up a bunch of different assets, including this company called Screen Media,

which already existed and had made films, lower budget type films for a long time. But to me, the fact that this particular movie with this much blood and this much swearing, I'm pretty sure,

the first line in the movie is a guy screaming the F-bomb. Yes. The fact that it started with a mention of chicken soup for the soul. Throwback. Do people even remember that? It was such a perfect. So specific. Chef's Kiss beginning to the experience of watching this movie.

I do think it's chicken soup for the soul, though, because what I love about these movies, too, is it makes you feel like there are people who, like, know everything and everybody can get on the plane. Even though it's chaotic, it makes it seem like the world isn't that chaotic because there are these people and these hackers who control everything. And then there's some agency like, yeah, go get them. We're going to save everybody. And then there's somebody up. It's really kind of like almost like having superheroes or something, people that really know what they're doing. So it makes me feel good. You mentioned that. And I wanted to talk that makes me want to think about pacing. When I'm on the plane with Josh Hartnett, I'm having a great time in this movie. When I'm on

the ground with K. Sackoff, I'm not having such a good time. They were explaining the exposition to me, like, spood feeding it to me at a time. And I'm like, oh, I don't care about any of this. Put me back on the plane. This is fight or flight. And I mean, there were sequences all like on the ground that were way longer than I think they should have been. And I think part of that is when I talk again about the construction is once you sell me that were Josh Hartnett on a plane fighting hundreds of assassins, like, yeah, great, put me on the plane. That's great. But I don't want to be on the ground at all, like, unless maybe 10 seconds at the beginning and the end.

It's true. And I think she's good in this. I was kind of happy to see Katie Sackoff. Yes. I enjoy her. Put her on the plane. But I think all you really need from her is her giving him the instructions that he needs to take this on. Yes. Because after that, you really are watching, to me, the gimmick of this movie is they basically put every kind of fight that happens in other movies all in one movie. So you have, like, the martial arts guys, you have, you have, have these kind of like monk-like figures who have a different kind of weapon. It's also martial arts kind of, but it's different. There is like a mysterious, non-specified European guy close to the beginning.

There's a woman who kind of looks like a robot or like an android or something like that. Weird eyes is what I called her. So she's like from a sci-fi movie. It's like every kind of fighting from other movies they just put in this movie, which I think is a really funny idea, especially. in a closed space like a plane. So that part of it works really well. But I agree that the more they went out and tried to actually like explain

who she is and who her colleague is on the ground. And that was all, I agree. I didn't need any of it. It's all blah, blah, blah. Yes. More Josh Hartnett fighting in pajamas that don't fit him. Can't even carry a gun. Loved it.

That part of it was so delightful to me. The only other thing I would say about the movie is I do think it was missing a really interesting big bag. Yes. I really kind of yearn for a really like big bad where you're like, oh my goodness or something. Yeah. And I didn't really get that. It's not like a final boss.

Yeah. You didn't have a final boss. Like in bullet train, you know, you had the cool guy at the end. And it was like you just remember that, oh, shoot, like, how are they going to get out of this? They didn't really have that. This is just kind of fight after fight after fight until he runs after fight until he runs out of people. And there were regular people on the plane. that was my other thing. There were regular people, but like, what was going on with them?

They just keeps getting out of the way, I think. Yeah, moving them to the front of the plane. Yeah, I don't know, man. It was exactly what I wanted at exactly the moment that it came into my life. And therefore, fight or flight, I will always be grateful to you. Well, tell us what you think about fight or flight. Find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash PCH and on letterboxed at letterbox.com slash NPR pop culture. We'll have a link in our episode description up next, what's making us happy this week. Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's making us happy this week?

Aisha Roscoe, what is making you happy this week? Okay, I am someone who loves old school R&B, and you can spend all day going, why don't they make love songs like this anymore? But I think Jay-Z said, if you want the old Jay-Z, listen to my old albums. And so I spend a lot of time listening to old songs. old albums. And I want the audience to think about an R&B singer who left us way too soon,

but who doesn't get talked about as much. And that is Gerald Lavert. And I know that sounds strange. Throwback. But he died in 2006. I think he could have had a much bigger career. Like, he did a whole lot. He has bunches and bunches of hits. He was part of LSG. His father is Eddie Lavert, who was in the OJs. But I have gotten into a... with Gerald Lavert phase, and I do nothing but listen to his songs. And it's one song in particular, and it's literally called In My Songs. And what I love about this is because they don't do this no more, is that he's just in this song begging. Love it.

touched my heart. I just like, and you don't, I don't feel that soul-stirring stuff. Like, and sometimes I love when people are singing about being alone and lonely and they can't find nobody. That sticks to me. So the name of the album is in my songs, but the leaves song off that album is in my songs. And I think anyone who just wants to listen to a great love song, listen to that and listen to some Jura Lavert. I love it. I am always here for an album that you, don't think everybody is listening to. Exactly. Thank you very much, Aisha Rosco.

Ronald Young, Jr., what is making you happy this week? Okay, so Netflix has a sports documentary series called Untold. Yes, they do. It's one of my favorite documentary series. And maybe it's because of my age. But they covered sports scandals that I was alive and aware of. But they cover them in a way that's like, okay, some time has passed. Now we're going to tell you what really happen.

Now that there's less stakes. And they've covered things like Malice at the Palace. They talk about Manteo's online relationship with a girl didn't exist. But I'm really excited because this season, I am, as you know, from Alexandria, Virginia, the Washington, D.C. area. And they are covering a very prominent Washington Wizards sports story between Gilbert Arenas and Jarvis Crittenton. And it's called Shooting Guards. And for those that know the story know how excellent the name Shooting Guards is for this particular documentary. And I really enjoy it because it not just unpacks a wild scan.

a very big scandal in the NBA, but it also then tells the story of Javaris Crittenton, who is the lesser-known star that this happened between. Gilbert Arenas has a, he has his own podcast, he's a media figure now, he has a son who is poised to go into the NBA. Like, he is still very much a part of like the Boys Club of the NBA, but this other guy, Javaris Crittenton, is not.

And this documentary does a very good job of not only showing where they're past the verge, but when they split and then, what happens to him beyond this incident in the Washington Wizards locker room in Washington, D.C., which is wild to me. So that being said, great story. If you like the untold series, this continues to add to their collection, watching its untold shooting guards on Netflix. All right.

Love it. Thank you very much, Ronald. I've watched a bunch of those in. I'm maybe going to sit down and watch that one very, very soon. As you may be able to tell from the discussion in this episode and other episodes, sometimes all I want is thrillers, just thrillers, thrillers, thrillers, thrillers, and sometimes that's the only thing I have a taste for it all. So I will sometimes go back and check out some of my favorites of the classics. I recently rewatched for the, I don't know what, how many times, the original,

The Taking of Pelham, 123, which is a 1974 movie directed by Joseph Sargent. And it is about a little gang of bad guys led by Robert Shaw from Jaws, he essentially hold hostage a New York subway train. They are going back and forth all day with a guy who works for the subway police, basically, the transit police, who is played by Walter Mathout, which is such an interesting decision because they made that basically a comedic genius they put in that role. So he's very serious about solving the problem. But also his exasperation with the situation is always lightly comic.

Yes. And he has amazing chemistry with Robert Shaw, even though they never see each other. They're just talking over the radio, over the great majority of the movie. The way that they unfold this story and where they do and do not actually use violence is sort of the opposite of fight or flight, whereas that movie is like maximum violence all the time. The Taking of Pelham 123 is highly directed violence where every time something happens, it's very devastating. That's a whole other skill set. Do not watch the remake that they made with Denzel Washington and John Travolta in his goate phase. Bless them.

Lots of talented people involved in that movie, including Tony Scott. But it just does not work. Just watch the original. The Taking of Pelham, 123. Love it. It's one of my favorite thrillers. you know, you can find it for rent or wherever. Just look it up on your platforms of choice.

And that is what is making me happy this week. And I'm sure we'll make me happy again very soon. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter. That's at npr.org slash pop culture newsletter. That brings us to the end of our show, Aisha Roscoe, Ronald Young Jr. Thank you so much for being here. This was fantastic. And thanks for having me.

This episode is produced by Hufza Fathema and edited by Jessica Karidi and Mike Katzif. Hello, Come In, provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Linda Holmes, and we'll see you all next week.