Pop Culture Happy Hour - Olivia Rodrigo you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love

Episode Date: June 17, 2026

Olivia Rodrigo is back blending spikey rock with tender ballads. How do we feel about her evolving sound? Her third album you seem pretty sad for a girl so in love is a collection of fizzy, sometimes jagged pop songs about a love that goes amazingly well until it doesn’t.If you’re looking for other fizzy pop songs, check out: Taylor Swift re-enters her banger era in ‘The Life of a Showgirl’Sabrina Carpenter returns with the short and saucy 'Man's Best Friend'Harry Styles' new album has vibes all the time. Bangers, occasionally.Connect with Pop Culture Happy Hour:Letterboxd / FacebookOur weekly newsletterSupport Pop Culture Happy Hour+See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Olivia Rodriguez's first two albums were massive chart-topping hits. Now she's back with a third collection of fizzies, sometimes jagged pop songs, about a love that goes amazingly well until it doesn't. I'm Stephen Thompson. Today we are talking about Olivia Rodriguez's new album, You Seam Pretty Sad for a Girl So In Love on Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Joining me today is NPR music editor, Hazel Sills. Welcome, Hazel.

Hey. It is a pleasure to have you also with us. is NPR music reporter Isabella Gomez Sarmiento. Hey, Isabella. Howdy. Thanks for having me. It is great to have you. So Olivia Rodrigo was a Disney Channel star before pivoting to music full-time, but she's been a superstar from virtually the moment she released her first single, Driver's License, Five Years ago. Like her first two albums, Sour and Guts, the new album mixes spiky rock with tender ballads while incorporating influences like Taylor Swift and Paramore. But it also contains several callouts to The Cure, up to and including Rodrigo's first ever featured guest,

as The Cures Robert Smith turns up to sing on the song What's Wrong With Me? You seem pretty sad for a girl so in love is out now. Isabella, I'm going to start with you. What do you think? You know, it's not my favorite Olivia Rodriguez album. I'll say that. There were moments that I really liked. I was excited to see Robert Smith on there.

I think that she took risks, and sometimes they landed, and sometimes, for me, they did not. It was, like, a little bit too much piano. There were specific moments, like, stupid song where I was like, this bridge rocks. Oh, the bridge is so good. Yeah, but, like, I don't want to sit through that whole song. It's just, it's too slow. I don't. Wow.

Anyway, I concede. So mixed? Mixed. Mixed. It has moments that I will definitely come back to again and again and I'm already thinking about. And then it has songs that I probably will never listen to again, if I can avoid it. Okay. How about you, Hazel?

Yeah. I mean, I certainly was, I think, a little bit more negative on this album. I think that Olivia Rodriguez really pulled me in with guts. I think that was her first album where I felt like she had sort of emerged as a very exciting voice. pop music for me and there was so much angst on that album and a very kind of specific point of view coming from like a young woman artist. And I think that she loses a bit of that specificity on this album to sort of create this larger narrative of, you know, being in love, falling out of love. And, you know, I think there are some strong moments. I think like her production on this album is

really interesting. But I think overall on like a songwriting perspective, I wanted more more from her. Wow. Y'all, I'm, I think I am the token person on this panel who is completely O-Rod-Pilled. Yeah. What she does works for me. It's worked for me since Sauer. I think she kind of emerged pretty fully formed as a, just a very strong presence, a strong songwriter, a very strong singer and live performer. Every time she's popped up, you know, any, you know, singing on S&L or whatever, I just think, wow, her vocals are really, really strong. And to me, this record, you know, feels like a natural extension of the records that came before it with kind of a few new influences swirled in. I have always been really, really impressed just by the cleverness of the way that she has managed over the course of her career to combine Gen Z singer-songwriter, very Taylor Swift, influenced pop, with a lot of sounds of, like,

90s alt rock. And here she also manages to mix in a little bit of new order, a little bit of the smashing pumpkins, a little bit of obviously the cure, not only in the song that, you know, we heard that includes Robert Smith, but like name-checking the song just like heaven in the single Drop Dead. You know all the words did just like heaven. I know why he wrote them now that you're standing. The second single on this album is called The Cure, even though it doesn't in any other way really reference the band. To me, I think she does such a great job bridging a generational gap between Gen Z and Gen X and kind of fusing them together in clever ways.

For me, on this record, I think the strongest songs are the ones that have a little more energy. I think her ballads, I find a little lethargic. I don't really hook me in. I think maybe the way a couple of the ballads on her first two records do. Yeah, totally. Yeah, I've never really been a fan of ballad, Olivia. Like, driver's license for me was not the biggest hook into her career. I was really excited when she started experimenting with, like, punk rock.

And like you're saying, Stephen, really calling back to these influences. We all know she's very into, like, the sort of riot girl pop punk aesthetics. And I was really thrilled to see her sort of pivot a little bit on this album away from those and further back into the 80s. Like, I did feel like, I don't know, I didn't want her to get stuck in that sound. And I think there are moments on this album where she pulls it off really well. Like, I liked the song, U plus me equals less than three. I like that it sounded a little bit like the cure and it sounded a little bit like always or Diet Sig. Like it had a little contemporary crispiness to it.

Yumi Zuma. Yeah. I don't know that she's listening to Yumi Zuma, but it seems like she could be. Yeah. You know, so there were moments, but I agree with Hazel where like, I feel like it was missing. some of the bite and some of the sarcasm that I really enjoyed from her first two albums, like some of the lyrics just fell a little flat, even though sonically I liked what she was going for in a couple of different places on this album.

Yeah, I just feel like on the last album, you know, I really love Olivia in the mode of songs like Bad Idea Right or Get Him Back or Ballad of a Homeschool Girl, like this sense of anxiety or like inner conflict that I feel like she is actively. working through on her songs. And I just, I didn't hear that as much on this album. I think because it has such a clear, you know, sort of container. Like she is singing about this one relationship and how it has transformed her falling in love, how it's demise. And I think that, you know, sour and guts just had such wider scope. And I loved hearing her sing about all these different aspects of her life from like social anxiety to, you know, body dysmorphia. And I think, you know, that really set her up to me

in my mind as a very, you know, Stephen, to your point, like a very, like, generational talent, like someone who I just really wanted to hear their perspective on her personal life and what she's going through. And I didn't get as many of those moments on this album. I just think because it was, you know, very narrative driven. And she's leading us through this story. I mean, I'm just going to keep steering us in the direction of things I like about this record. Go for it. Because I really am a fan. And one thing that I really appreciate, and I think Hazel, you and I've talked about the song, The Cure, as a real highlight of this record. And I think one thing that I think this song hints at and kind of suggests a future direction and expansion of her sound is I think

there are several tracks here, including The Cure, that really get at a kind of grandeur, like a sonic grandeur to match the emotional grandeur that she's trying to capture. And to me, that song has these big strings. It's definitely a song that evokes the kind of peak smashing pumpkins. That song's also getting at something, I think, really important, which is that, like, love is not the solution to all your problems. Yeah. I also just feel like that's a great message to put out into the world.

Great message to put out into the world. And I think especially powerful for someone like her. her. I mean, most of this album, you know, the first half of this album is basically love songs. You know, songs about being intensely head over heels in love. And that's actually kind of a new subject material for Olivia Rodriguez. I mean, she has sort of built this reputation with songs like Drivers' License, Vampire, these really intense, you know, cutting songs aimed at X's. And I think the cure is so interesting to me because, you know, she is someone who has spent most of her career writing about love and and chasing it and, you know, searching for it. And on The Cure,

it's like she has it. And it's not a song that's, you know, a dig at an X or something like that. It's not like a vampire. It's this moment of real self-realization and like discovery. And it sounds like I'm hearing her, you know, have this epiphany in real time. And I think that that is why the cure for me is the strongest song on this album. Because it, I think it contains, this sort of critical distance that I wanted Olivia Rodriguez to have about most of her relationship on this album. And it's just an incredible performance. Like, she is singing on that song. And it has a great music video. And so it's definitely the highlight for me. Yeah, I agree. I think her voice sounds incredible. I didn't love this song when it came out as a single. But I think in the

context of the album, it like really clicked into being like kind of what Hazel's saying. Like, she's taking a little bit more of a step back, grappling with conflict in a way that we don't really get to hear for a lot of the album. And yeah, her voice just sounds incredible. I like that she's not singing so much in a falsetto or in a, like, she's just kind of, it's a little bit like bogged down in a way that I really like and I think matches the emotional tone of the song. And I think it's worth discussing kind of the context of this record where she had written a bunch of love songs, you know, because she was in a relationship and was very happy and was, has, you know, as spoke. in interviews about kind of like this was my first kind of grown-up relationship. And then over the course of the making of this record, that relationship ended. And so they suddenly kind of had to go back and retrofit an air of sadness to it and to kind of create the track sequencing

that we have going on here. I mean, this record is sort of subtitled where like the first half of the songs are subtitled, a girl so in love. And the second half of the record is subtitled, you seem pretty sad. And the cure is the song that is the fulcrum. And I agree with Issa that my initial reaction to the song as a single was like, no, it's pretty good. But then hearing it in the context of the way that these songs fall, it kind of took on much, much, much more power.

I want to stick up for the song, stupid song. I'm sorry. I went too hard. I'm hate of it. I will say it's grown on me, but I want to, Stephen, I want to hear your like full-throated defense. Yeah, go for it. I mean, first of all, I think it's the best song Taylor Swift has done since midnights.

Exactly. I think it is massively better than anything on the last two Taylor Swift records. It is certainly very swift-coded. Including, I know it has that thing that I think Hazel is maybe more tired of than I am, which is that kind of pitter-patter vocals. Yeah. But to me, part of what jumps out to me at the song is it's just very commercial. It feels like a colossal summer.

Also, you know, we've spoken several times just about how strong a singer she is. I think her vocal command on this song is something that very, very few even major pop singers could pull off. It's interesting you say that because I honestly felt like she was straining a bit on this song. But I sort of like those higher notes, but it, I, even though I don't love this song, I understood it to potentially be a choice because the way that the song plays out. Her voice is building in intensity. She's like, I'm a heart of wax melting in the sun. Like, I'm this undone thread. And there's this kind of like build to it. But it's funny that you said that like she is, I don't know. I don't know if she was totally hitting all those notes for me in

that song. So you kind of hinted at what I'm saying that, which is that like letting your voice go a little ragged is part of the toolkit of a powerhouse singer. Think about like Beyonce. say. And like certain moments on the self-titled record or lemonade or whatever where she lets her voice get a little raspy. Yeah, break a bit. Like she could hit those notes. But by letting her voice go more ragged, she's letting emotion in. And I think the way that song has this like, this kind of careening quality to it where like her emotions are running ahead of her. Her voice can't quite keep up. To me, I think that's part of its power. I don't want pop music to sound totally I don't know. It's interesting the story behind this album of them, you know,

Olivia Rigo and her collaborator, Dan Niger, having to go back and sort of tweak these early songs. And I think one of my biggest problems with this album is that I don't know if they successfully pull off that tweaking. I think that there are a lot of songs in the first half where I just they read as very earnest to me, even though I can sense or tell that they are trying to put this, you know, darker level of sadness, or I think she described it as like creepy in an interview with The New York Times, aura to them. And I think the song on the first half of the album that I think really successfully does that tweaking to me is the song, Maggots for Brains, which I really loved and is very totally like, Issa, you mentioned Alve's early. It's like a jangle pop song That is the song That is the song where I heard it And I was like, okay, I see what you were trying to do

And I think you've really successfully done it On this song where you're essentially describing yourself As you know, feeling like a zombie in your body Like every time your boyfriend leaves the house You're like beside yourself So yeah, it's stupid song is I think one of the songs in this album That Very Successfully like completely telegram

graphs love to me. And that bridge. It's just like cruel summer. Like I'm glad that you called it a Taylor Swift song, Stephen, because it came on and I was like, this is the thing that would make me, I would listen to this whole song just waiting for this buildup. But I just wish it didn't, I don't know. Like the emotional drive of it isn't enough to get me to sit through the first half of the song until that part kicks in. But the drums are incredible. Oh, that bridge.

It's interesting because like when driver's license came out, so many people were just like, oh, that bridge, that bridge, that bridge is the best. ever. And to me, like, that bridge was what kind of tipped the song over into a little kind of silliness for me. It's like, oh, she's so young and she's swearing. It's very teenage, right? And, like, that's part of what works about it. To me, this was like, this bridge felt like she's in command. Yeah, which is what I wanted to hear more of on the record. Like, I think when I heard of that bridge, I was like, oh, my God, when she's locked in, like, she is so incredible. And I think that the production worked really well. Like, I think that song takes a really good pivot in the second half, but it just, I don't know, I feel like overall, like, this album just had too many

ballads for me, and I feel like it kind of bogs her down. I think it sort of keeps her in this kind of, like, adolescent sort of, Hazel, you've described this to me before as, like, Claire's core music. And that is, I was unfortunately getting a little too much of that on this record. I always, and I don't know if it's selfish. I don't know if it's my personal taste getting in the way of my critical ability to evaluate the music. I always, I always, and I always, always want Olivia to push back from her theater kid Disney Channel upbringings. And I said to your point, I think when she is in ballad mode, and I think stupid song does have a little bit of that, you know, theater kid flare for sure. When she's in that ballad moment, I don't hear the growth. I think I

hear growth when she is making more interesting choices. And also there's a part of me that's like, you know, would these songs, if she had sat with some of these ballads more, would they have turned into a different kind of song. Like, what a song, like, Begged, you know, if she had sat on that a little bit longer, would it have stayed and it's, you know, minimalist kind of at the piano origins? That's interesting because I think Begged is maybe the strongest ballad here. Okay. In part, I think, because of the sound, because of that gorgeous choral arrangement.

I think that's a virtue to not let good love slip away. I think that keeps it grounded in prettiness. The way a song like Honeybee to me is like floating away and it's like a little too cloying. Megd, I think, has a little more emotional heft. Yeah, it's interesting talking about these songs because I think because of the way that the album is packaged and the way that she has, you know, described it and sold it to listeners as this like, you know, tight kind of cohesive narrative. I think it makes me listen to the songs, I think, a little more critically because they're in conversation with each other. And I'm not a fan of Honeybee at all. I can't forget her for Honeybee.

But it is so interesting to me that, you know, Stupid Song is this song about, you know, being unable to fully express your, you know, feelings in music because they're so strong. And then she has a line in Honeybee, which is the song that follows Stupid Song, where she all. So expresses the same idea. Like she sings about being, you know, kind of unable to describe her feelings. So it's moments like that where I just, you know, I wanted, I don't know, I felt like the songs kind of bled into each other a little bit for me. Or I was listening to them differently as I would say, you know, guts are sour. I agree. I think I was craving a little bit more mess.

And it all felt a little too tight. And like everything was a little bit too contained. I wanted her to go off the rails a little bit more. And I think the moments in which she does that, like maggots for brains, it really works. I think she's really good at sort of teetering over the edge but keeping the song together. And I don't know, I think there were a lot of moments on this album where it was a little predictable and boring. Oh, oh, Isa. A single tear falls from Stephen's face.

But you know what? I loved how I really did like the collaboration with Robert Smith, which Hazel, I know you weren't the biggest fan of. even if she's been a little bit heavy-handed with references to The Cure on this album, I appreciate that choice. I think they sound really great together. I like the way that their voices meld. I don't know.

I thought it was cute, even though there is sort of an underlying, like, lacking a little bit of dryness and bite and sarcasm that I wish was a little bit more present. But I liked hearing him on the record. I thought it was a really fun choice. Well, I think we can agree that this is a great record. I like it.

That's the point of this podcast. Stephen has an opinion, invites guests on, and at the end of the day, we must agree with him. And we do. That is exactly founders' intent, what this show is all about. All right, that brings us to the end of our show. Isabella Gomez-Sarmiento, Hazel Sills. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you.

Thank you. This episode was produced by Liz Metzker and Mike Katzif and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In, provides our theme music. Thanks for listening. to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next time.