Pop Culture Happy Hour - Severance

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

In season two of Severance (streaming on Apple TV+), we got a blowout finale with answers to mysteries and even more layers of weirdness. The show stars Adam Scott as an employee of a sinister corporation called Lumon. He has undergone a process called severance, which separates your work self and home self.Listen to Short Wave's episode about Severance.To access bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening for Pop Culture Happy Hour, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour+ at plus.npr.org/happy. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Well, finally, in the blowout season finale of severance, we got answers to questions we started asking back when season one aired three years ago. And somehow, believe it or not, we also got even more layers of weirdness and complexity, which is saying something, because it's not like this series, which stars Adam Scott as an employee at a mysterious corporation, has not been weird from the jump. But the second season gave us more, so much more, goats and eggs, and malice, frolic, dread, Sandra Bernhard and Robbie Freakin Benson. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we're breaking down the second season of severance on this episode of Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Joining me today is NPR White House correspondent Danielle. Danielle, hey Danielle.

Hey there. Also joining us is Jared Hill. He's the co-author of the book Historically Black Phrases. Hey, Jared. Hey, there. And rounding out the panel is New York Times Food Reporter and author of the best-selling cookbook Indian-ish. Priya Krishna. Hey, Priya.

Hi, Glenn. Hey. Okay, everyone, look, you know the premise of the Apple TV Plus series Severance, Adam Scott, John Turturro, and others play employees of a sinister corporation called Lumen. They've undergone a process called Severance, which makes it so that when you're at the office, your work life is the only life you know. And when you're at home, your home life is the only life you know. As the second season began, Lumen was reeling from the events of the season one finale in which some of our main characters in ease, their work selves, successfully managed. to wake up and warn their outies, their homesales, that Lumen was up to something. Mark, played by Adam Scott, also learned that his wife, whom he thought was dead, was alive and kept prisoners somewhere in the bowels of the Lumen building. There is a lot to unpack here. I have not even mentioned the Orte Bo yet, but we'll get to as much as we can. Priya, what do you think of this season? Has it verve? Has it wilds? Well, first off, praise Kier. Given. Given. So let me tell you the kind of severance viewer I am.

I am the Severance viewer who spends most of the season wondering, am I too stupid for this show? What does any of this mean? Are they going to answer that question? Why are there goats? Who is that again? What are they saying? And then I get to the finale and I'm like, oh, my God, it all makes sense. This show is awesome.

And that's how I felt about season one. And that is how I felt about season two. Season two, just like season one, kind of meandered. It went off into its own, like, I feel like this is a really unpopular opinion, but I felt like the Patricia Arquette standalone episode, the main takeaway was like Harmony Cobell invented the severance procedure. Could we have done that a little quicker, a little faster, gotten that reveal without all the backstory? The answer is yes, they could have. I think it's an amazing show. I think the visuals, the aesthetics, everything is totally spot. on. I feel like it sort of took its windy path to get to the season two finale, but I thought the season two finale was just as good and gripping as the season one finale. In fact, it reminded me of season one of Lost when John Locke is banging on the hatch door and suddenly like the light illuminates and seeing Gemma who has just like escaped Lumen and thinks that Mark is coming with her banging on the door, it kind of brought me back to that moment.

Yeah. Okay. That's a good take. I love that. What about you, Jared? I must say, Priya, I don't have any friends that I talk about this show with regularly. So I feel like I'm the only one having this experience. Same. And you just explained so beautifully what I've been experiencing throughout watching this show.

I always feel like, am I too stupid for this show? Did I look at my phone too long? Did I not know what that thing meant? And it's an interesting juxtaposition with this show, because I also feel like every line is important on this show, right? It's not a show with a bunch of ad libs and kind of like, oh, that was a funny bit that I'm sure that no one saw coming, right? Everything feels very measured on this show.

And so it's challenging for me in that way because I'm like, I don't know what we doing, but I'm in, right? And like, I'm here. And then at the end, it was like, oh, okay. So we stuck the landing, but we were wobbly in the air. for me. And like, I spent so much of the season trying to figure out if I was looking at Heli or Helena

and kind of having a crush on who I imagine Milchick really is, but not who we're seeing him as. And thinking that's probably more about Tramel Tillman and who I make him in my head, right? But, like, it was all over the place. And then when they started, like,

performing a musical act in the finale, I was like, oh, we... I'm on board. I know that it had to feel like, I really hope this is working. Right. I know at the end of the episode, I was yelling at the scene. No, no, no, no, no, but where are they going? Right. Right. No, hold on. I need another minute and a half. Right. By the end, it brought me to that same tension of the first season. Okay. That's two stuck the landings. Danielle, I suspect you might be the Russian judge taking off some points. What do you think? This season disappointed the hell out of me. Like, the best I can say about it is it brought me and my spouse closer together because every episode we were pausing it.

every five to 10 minutes to yell, what are they doing? What did? Why? Why? I love a show that does a big swing. I love a show that does weird stuff. I love a show a strange lore, but it has to be in service of something. Like, I think about the leftovers. The leftovers is a show about grief and faith. And it has weird stuff, but it's in service of making bigger points, of having bigger arcs. Twin Peaks, I don't need to know what the Log Ladies' deal is, I need to know that the show is about the darkness beneath the picket-fenced, tiny American idyllic town. That's great. Lost. Lost had these wonderful moments about what if being on this island is better than the life you came from? Season 1 of Severance was wonderful when it was plumbing the depths of your work life and your

outer life. at the weird school spirit you feel for your weird office and your weird office culture. This season veered into weird for weirdness's sake. I don't care about this big Icelandic guy with the frolic tattoo on his hand. I don't care. Sure. So much of the weirdness felt like Easter eggs for the Reddit crowd. There were flashes of really interesting stuff, though, like Tremel Tillman, Milchick, getting at his attitude toward his

job, his attitude toward race at his job, his attitude toward being the exploiter and being exploited. Cool. Great. The best scene of the whole season was on this final episode to me. It was Dylan's letter to his in-e from his Audi about, I like knowing you're there. I want to be more like you. I felt so much, and I wished more of the season could be like that.

I hope someday she seasoned me. What she sees in you. In the meantime, if I'm being really honest, I guess I like knowing you're there. The plotline between him and Merritt Weaver, part of it is because Merritt Weaver is there. She's great. That was my favorite part of the whole season. Yeah, I loved that part. I'm just going to say, I cannot remember a more satisfying season finale.

This thing hit every box that needed checking plot-wise, which is impossible. I thought it was impossible, but it did it. The added complexity we got in that last episode, exactly, that didn't feel extraneous to me. That felt necessary because it grew out of character. It had literally never occurred to me that, for example, Inny and Outie Mark would distrust and kind of hate each other. Yeah. I love that part. So we got that great Gallum-Smigle dialogue.

That was fun. I think that I disappear along with every Inni down there. What do you want from me? We are in this together. you just trust me? And it feels like I got the sense that we have been building to that, and I didn't realize we were building to that. But it still seemed great to me.

And that is the sweet spot when it comes to finale, like surprising but inevitable. Surprising in the moment, inevitable once you take a step back. The only reason I feel this way, I'm certain, is because I binged both seasons over a couple of days. Had I been watching this week to week? And especially if I was paying attention to the Reddit crowd, you mentioned, Danielle, like to the online theories, I'm sure I would feel exactly like you did, like a lot of reaction I'm seeing online, which is too slow, too meandering. What the hell are we doing in Saltznik? Folks, take a Saturday. Watch it all at once. That is what this show is built for. You start to see the references, the callbacks, the parallels. It becomes a much richer experience. Let's be annoying and say it becomes a richer text.

I feel like, Danielle, what you're saying, I will push back in that. I thought that the nuances of looking at, your iny self versus your outy self and that being a big focus of this season, I thought that was so interesting. Like, Iny Dillon versus Audi Dillon, I thought was so interesting. Oh, I agree. The Golem-Smeagle stuff between Iny Mark and Outy Mark was so interesting. I feel like for me, the reason I liked this season is because the crux of it was really looking at like, oh, these actually are two different people and what right do either person have to exist? I loved the really creepy dinner conversation between Bert's Audi, Irving's Audi, and Bert's Audi's husband. You know, the like Inis deserve love to or something like that.

I believe that Inis deserve to experience love. I mean it. And I hope it was beautiful. I thought that conversation was just so interesting. And it felt like to me the parts I didn't like is when it comes. kind of veered away from that into like mythology building around Kier and Lumen territory. Yeah, but that, me, I'm just watching for the Egan lore stuff, the cult stuff. I eat that up with a big old spoon from me. The romance stuff, like every character, every character, both inies and nowadays, I think, gets some kind of a romance,

even the very troubling Helena Hellie identity theft essay storyline. That's not what I'm watching for. It's like, it's part of it, though, right? Because it's like the jelly and the peanut butter and jelly sand. I would, I'll eat this. I would much rather you just gave me a plain peanut butter sandwich, but the, but the jelly, you know, it's there. I'm not going to hate it.

It just, there was such a, like, speed shift with the finale versus the rest of the season that I wonder if that was intentional. But, like, it's, like, the season finale, it was like every single moment. I was like, yes, yes. Oh, answer, answer, answer, another answer. Like, by the time we got to, like, Milchick, like, ramming up against the bathroom door at the marching band playing, I was like, oh, my God. I agree with you all. I thought the season finale was better than the rest of the season. I'm with you on that.

I wish the rest of the season had been at that pace. Like the Mark, I love the Smeagel description. The Mark Smeagel conversation. Like, I thought it went on a little long. You're like, let's pick this up a little bit. I get it. But like, yeah, that was lovely. Again, that is one of those things where there was an interesting idea.

And this could have been fleshed out starting earlier. Like this, once we got there, I was like, okay, yeah, I could see this. Where is this going? But during the finale, I was like, so we're just tacking on all the stuff, this finale. And there was so much, there was so much that just felt so unexplained. For example, like, why did Mark's sister trust Ms. Cobal so much? Why did she even want to give her a call? That I still don't get it.

And if you can explain it to me, please, too. Why did no one ask Brianna of Tarth what her name is? what was up with the goats. Brianna Thor. Mark, you're standing right there. Ask about the goats. Yeah, that's Gwendolyn Christie. She plays the goat herder who works for mammalians, nurturable.

There were so many moments the season where people didn't act like people. I will add, by the way, that dinner with Irving and Christopher Walken, my husband and I, we have particular feelings on this, but we turned to each other and we said, have the writers met a Christian before? I can't go to heaven because I've done such terrible things. We were like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. That's not the way it works. Come on. We were wondering, oh, is something coming that's going to explain that? No, no, just bad writing. And there were so many moments where the show just snagged for me, where I was like, no one is acting normally. No one's acting like a real person and not in a fun stylized way, just like y'all aren't being human. I don't get it.

I might be messing at my own point here. But, Danielle, did you watch week to week? Yes. So, Glenn, I think your point about watching the show all together in succession, if you will, I'm a lot. I think there is something about watching this kind of show almost, you know, in a bubble, right? Because I do remember watching the first season in COVID, actually. And, like, we're in a weird kind of time in the world. And, like, you know, you can binge it and watch all of that at one time. This thing about watching it week to week, I think, is a big part of what was difficult for me.

Because we really meander out in these episodes to find out, oh, she invented the severance technique, right? got it, okay, wow, we took a long road to get there. Yep. You know what I mean? It literally took a long road and we watched your drive it, yeah. It kind of makes me think about the bear in the way that the bear, every season has felt different. And this season, to me, it felt like, oh, we're taking some big swings in different directions

to go really go deeply on a story. And I felt like we spent a lot of time out of the office. And that was challenging because I'm like, this, the switch thing is really interesting. but we're in a whole other kind of thing here. Even watching it in one big gulp. Yeah, we get that episode with Patricia Arquette, Harmony Cobell. We find out she's the creator of Severance Technology. That was one too many threads tied up.

I like the fact that that's what was happening this season. A lot of stuff that got integrated that I didn't think was going to be integrated. Like a lot of stylistic embellishments and grace notes. I know exactly. I didn't even say it. But like, I thought we'd never get an explanation for the goats. Thought it was there just for weirdness's sake because it's a puzzle box show. Puzzle box shows kind of do that.

And yet when they tied up the Patricia Arquette thing, the only thing I did was it made the world of the show so much smaller. But then again, what this show is going for is a sense of claustrophobia, of limited choices. To me, this season was just trying to do too much. Had you cut down the number of arcs a bit, I think it would have done better. But, like, bringing in the topic of race and then getting rid of it, bringing in Mr. Drummond, then really getting rid of him. Just being in. Dispatching him. Yeah, spree and the goats.

And then just kind of, we're going to have them in for two episodes. Suddenly having a marching band, I don't know. Oh, you cannot diss the marching band. No, look, look, look. It was cool, but honestly, I was looking at it going, congratulations on having a lot of money. Like, I'm so sorry that I am such a hater, but I was watching it going so much effort put into this.

When effort could have been put into other episodes, man. Like this, I don't care. Just give me a better story. I think that part of what makes severance severance is this weird, quirky, what the hell are we doing? Why is this happening? Who are these people? I think the disorienting nature of severance is part of why it works, right?

Yes. We as viewers have kind of gone through our own procedure to say, like, we're going to allow a certain level of wild and crazy, right, because of this world that they've created, right? Where it's timeless. I can't tell if it's very modern or in the 80s, like with different things. I don't know what's up with the clothes and the, I love Patricia Arquette's wig. I think she's really cool and interesting, but like she's also very weird. You know, we're allowing some things to just happen in this world.

And like me being disoriented and not sure what to think or feel about stuff is a big. part of the point as you as you kind of watch how they tease things out. I totally get what you're saying. And I think in the first season and parts of this season, what I got from the weirdness was it was standing in for something. It was almost, it was kind of allegorical. This season, it felt more just like how weird can the show get. Like her dad sitting there while she eats an egg, this outy hellie and her dad saying, I wish you would eat them raw. Like, what are you doing? I don't care. Now, see, I'm going to have to agree with you

because I was like, now, what are we doing? What's... Yes, yes, thank you. This season did deliver me one of my very favorite lines in the history of television. Why are you a child? Because of when I was born.

I thought that was hysterical in the way that the show gives us comedy every now and then, like, comic comedic moments. I loved that moment. Shout out to Miss Wong. Yes, exactly. We hadn't spoken about her. Gone too soon.

Shout out to Sarah Buck as Miss Brown. She'll be back. I feel like the show pushes so many boundaries and is trying so many things. And I feel like ultimately, for me, more of the experiments work than don't work. But yeah, we have to acknowledge the show that's doing so much and just, like, kind of given permission to just, like, see what sticks. Some of it is really interesting and compelling in the weirdness works. And some of it just is not. Also, Glenn, for what it's worth, I still don't understand.

the goats. I'm still very confused. They're an offering that a different goat is buried with each person they kill. And apparently, this company has a body count and they've killed lots and lots of people. For me, the finale works because it reminded me so much of an old show from the 60s called The Prisoner. The Prisoner was always working on two levels, the literal level and a kind of metaphorical level. And then for its finale, it kind of turned up the volume and the reality stretched to kind of be able to take on some of that metaphorical weight. It didn't work, but it was interesting and seen. I was feeling some of that happening here? And that's why I'm so grateful for someone we haven't mentioned

yet, which is Mark's sister Devin, played by Gentilic. Great character. She has written well. She's played well. This show is so weird that what she's bringing can be very easily overlooked. She is grounded. She is real. She's funny. She's more. Without her, I think this show could devolve into kind of an exercise and style. And also not for nothing, a complete bummer, because the view of humanity that, at least the villains in the show have, is, we're made up of wo, malice, dread, and frolic. That is not a cheery of you. That's three quarters, negative emotions, one positive one.

But, I mean, look around, right? I was kind of like, this is so negative. And of course, it's the villain espousing it, so we're not supposed to buy it. But, I mean, show me the lie, right? But, I mean, I think there is, like, a self-awareness of the show, too. Like, you know, the meeting between Cobell and Mark's Audi, where she's just like, how are you doing?

And he's like, oh, my God, so good. My wife's being held prisoner at Lumen, and I just got brain surgery in my basement. Have you been? Yeah, so good. Like, that's so good was like, that's like how I feel most days. So good said exactly like that. And those moments I just love because they remind me like, oh, the show is totally aware of what it is. Yeah.

That's a solid. point. If you want to hear more about severance, check out the NPR Science Podcast Shortwave. They recently talked to the show's science consultant about how realistic severing really is. We'll have a link in our episode notes. Priya Krishna, Jared Hill, Danielle Kurtz-David. Thank you so much for being here. Always happy to do it. Thank you. Devour feculence.

Devour feculence. You had that locked and loaded, didn't it? You had that locked and loaded. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support our show and public radio, and you get to listen to all of our episodes, sponsor-free, so please go find out more at plus.npr.org. We'll also have a link for that in our episode notes. This episode was produced by Liz Metzger and edited by Mike Katziv. Our supervising producer is Jessica Ritty, and hello, come in, provides our theme music.

Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Glenn Weldon, and we'll see you all tomorrow.