Pop Culture Happy Hour - Snow White And What's Making Us Happy

Episode Date: March 21, 2025

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was Disney's first fully animated feature film back in 1937. Now, it's getting a hi-tech "reimagining" complete with new songs, seven CGI-rendered dwarfs, and live-action leads. Rachel Zegler stars as Snow White, while Gal Gadot plays the Evil Queen with a magic mirror and terrible intentions.Follow Pop Culture Happy Hour on Letterboxd at letterboxd.com/nprpopculture.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs was Disney's first fully animated feature film all the way back in 1937. Now it's getting a high-tech reimagining complete with new songs, seven CGI rendered dwarfs, and live action leads. Rachel Zegler stars as Snow White while Gal Gadot plays the Evil Queen with a magic mirror and terrible intentions. I'm Stephen Thompson. Joining me today on NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour is my co-host, Aisha Harris. Hey, Aisha. Hello, Stephen. Also with us is co-host of Slate's ICYMIMI podcast and former pop culture happy hour producer Candace Slim. Hey, Candice.

Hello. And rounding out the panel is entertainment journalist and contributor, Sharr Jossel. Welcome back, Shar. Hi, Stephen. It is a pleasure to have you all here. So for those who've somehow missed the boat on Snow White until now, it's the story of a virtuous princess whose life is upended when her mother dies and her father, the king, marries a wicked stepmother. Soon enough, jealousy compels the evil queen to order a hit on Snow White, who flees and finds assistance from seven comical dwarfs. You've got your magic mirror, you've got your high ho, you've got your flopsy-haired Disney Rogue, who may just double as a love interest for our princess, who may just be the fairest of them all. In the spirit of so many Disney remakes, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Dumbo, and others, this new Snow White resides in an uncanny valley between animation and photo realism. but the story remains much the same, albeit with a generous assortment of new songs.

The new Snow White is in theaters now, Candice Lim. I'm going to start with you. What did you think of this new iteration of Snow White? Yeah, so I walked in really low expectations for this movie. I'm sorry, guys, but I found this movie quite comforting and charming. I know. I apologize for enjoying myself. I know. So here's my thing. I love the 1937 film. I remember as a kid watching it all the time, but I always found it very scary. Like the mirror and the branches when they're grabbing at Snow White, I just always found it very dark. And this one I felt was very light in contrast. And I like that we get some backstory on what Snow White's life looked like before the Evil Queen came into her life. I thought that Rachel Zegler was good. I kind of think she brings like a strength to Snow White that I don't remember from the 19th 37 film. And I think this film reminded me a lot of tangled just because it was bright. And Rachel has like a Mandy mournest to her voice in some of her songs. And then Jonathan, who's kind of her love interest, played by Andrew Burnap, you know, Flynn Rider coated, leather vest, duets. And so I was kind of into it, but I'm curious to hear what you guys think. I was on the fence about this film. I also walked in. I didn't really have much expectation. But I had to remind myself throughout watching this that this is a children's film. Okay.

this is not made for me. I thought that Rachel did a great job as Snow White. I would consider this a musical. And I enjoy musicals. There was literally the 30 seconds of dialogue and then yet another song. I thought that Dopey was the star

of this film. He really tugged at my heartstrings. When he cried, I cried. When he was happy, I was happy. Other than that, this seemed like one of the cheaper Disney films. It just seemed just the background and the the way things were illustrated, it felt cheap to me, like some of the lighting cues, just even

watching this on the screen. And so I wasn't necessarily a fan of the film as a whole. And I thought that gal's performance as the evil queen was not good. I wasn't buying it. She sounded great when she was singing. All is for the crown to be the queen means you do as you please. But I did not enjoy her performance as the evil queen. I think it might not be fair to her because I was walking in kind of like anticipating like an Angelina Jolie Maleficent type performance. But that's just not in gal's wheelhouse to bring out that type of performance. So yeah, I think the kids will love it. The best part was Snow White going to the forest, like, you know, being banished from the kingdom. I loved those effects when

when she was like going into the forest and going to the seven dwarfs house. But other than that, the five-year-olds will love it. Shar, I'm going to try not repeat too much of what you said, because I have actually on board pretty much everything you said. I will say... Candace, on the other hand. I know. I have to be the supporter here.

It's crazy, but please continue. Look, I love that we have a range of views. Sure. If I had one good thing to say about this movie, it is that scene where she is snow white is vanished into the forest. That one seemed like it was echoing the original animation of the scene from the 1937 version. But it also looked kind of cool. And I wish that the production design had been more like that.

Like it was very dark and kind of black, but then you have like these red neon lights. And it gives this very kind of like, I don't know, hot topic, but like elevated hot topic like, you know, aesthetic to it. Yes, like the store. Like it had that sort of like artistic. It was a little Alice in Wonderland to me when she falls through the hole hits the water. Yes, that too, that too. I wanted a little bit more of that. And the rest of the movie is so kind of like weirdly washed out.

these sort of like gray harsh tones. And so it takes away from that. But besides that, like, I did think overall that, like, the music was lacking. This is one of the live action, they're calling it a reimagining. So it's not, I will say, it is not like a shot for shot, nearly shot for shot remake where it's like you're not doing anything completely different with this film. They did add several new songs. But my problem with these new songs, which were done by the songwriting duo, Pasek and Paul,

who have also done Dear Evan Hansen, Lala Land, shows and movies I'm not a fan of either. Begot Winners. Okay. But the problem with these new songs, as we heard at the top, is that they all kind of have this very contemporary musical theater vibe that we are so used to now and that, like, does not add anything new to the canon. And when you put those up against, like, hi-ho and whistle while you work, I wanted them to at least try to make the song sound a little bit more period, like, of a different era. than of the contemporary, the blending was not working for me. That's all I'll say for now. Stephen, I want to hear what you think about this.

I mean, interestingly, the element of this film I felt was the strongest were the new songs. Yeah. I love this. We're all over the place. It's great. We are all over the place because, honestly, part of it is, like, I'm not a big snow white guy. Yeah. When I go back and watch that 1937 film and the first song is that, oh, I'm wishing.

for the one I love. I know. Classic, classic. It's so quaint and twee and slow. I don't necessarily feel like a deep connection to it. It is also part of Disney's bizarre campaign against stepparents, which I have never been down with even before I came to rely on one. But I felt like Passick and Paul, I mean, they're definitely bringing. musical theater vibes. If you want somebody who's going to be able to emulate kind of that

classic Disney vibe, I think they do it well. And what I like about their songs, honestly, is that most of them do not involve the seven dwarfs. Before the film came out, actor Peter Dinklage criticized Disney for revisiting this story because of the backwards portrayal of dwarfs in the original source material. And Disney said that they consulted with members of the dwarfism community is part of its production process. And the dwarfs here are CGI. And I found this presentation in this film to just be so off-putting that cruddy, uncanny valley polar express, CGI SLOPP animation.

Polar Express, yes. It is so distracting. Even Dopey, as Sharr said, like Dopey is giving you so much emotion. You know, there's so much in the eyes, and that character is just like a precious moments figuring come to life. I was thinking more than Mad Magazine Kid. That's what he kind of looked like to me. Well, definitely some Alfredi Newman. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

If Alfredi Newman was trying to make you cry, that's dopey. But I found that animation and the weird kind of uncanny valley whenever they are appearing on the same screen as like Rachel Zegler. It all just clanks. it didn't work for me at all. And I think in general, these Disney reimaginings always feel like they are cover versions that are made with great technical skill and no heart. Yeah. They're never horrible, but they're never elevated. They never do more than just kind of remix existing properties.

And so for me, this film falls really. right in the middle on that. I think Rachel Zegler is fine in it. I think Gal Gadot kind of works within her limitations a little bit. The evil queen is such a one-dimensional character. Like, the evil queen comes in as, like, too evil. But she has to be believable. Yeah.

Right. I walked away from it saying, like, Gaga would have killed this. Like, Gaga. With the song. Yes. Gaga would have made that song, like, an actually, like, memorable song. Yeah. She would have brought the menace, the flare, the dramatic.

Yeah. Gaddott does not bring any of that. And frankly, she's never brought any of that to any role. So I was kind of shocked that she was even cast in this. You know, her performance was my least favorite. And I should also mention now embracing that this is a reimagining. I felt like Disney missed an opportunity to really lean into Snow White's mom and get away from the trope. You know how everyone is just all about dad?

And because we saw her backstory and mom was so heavily involved within the first part. of the movie. I thought it was interesting that the new songs focused so much on the father. And I get that the evil queen comes in and sends the father off and he never comes back home. And, you know, the emphasis on the necklace and et cetera, et cetera. But that was a missed opportunity to kind of reimagine and really lean into the strengths and the example that the mother set. Yeah. But that wouldn't be Disney if they did, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of in the same page with you guys of like, I did find things I wish they had updated. The first one being the fairest of them all. Okay, as a concept. We are almost 90 years after the 1937 film. I still do

not know what they mean by that. Well, I thought they meant complexion. It used to mean complexion, but now, as we know, they've changed the origin of Snow White here. Yes, exactly. And so for Rachel Zegler to not only get so much criticism for the fact that she identifies as Colombian and the fact that she's cast in this, I was like, okay, what do we really mean by Fares of them all. Let's get into it. But the second thing is that I'm a little surprised that they kind of kept this idea that the evil queen is weaponizing beauty as a symbol of evil. I feel like if I was a child watching this, I would just kind of immediately go like, okay, so beauty is equal to fairness, which is equal to maliciousness. And I just don't know if that's really the message that we needed

to see in this film. In terms of things that I remember from this film, if we're talking about music, the one song I did like was Princess Problems, which I thought was kind of cute and fun. That one was cute. Yeah, we've got a classic case of Princess Problems. The castle's cozy, but it's cold outside. Sure, just write him off as Princess Problems. And saying selfish is justified.

That was harsh. I mean, also, like, we haven't even talked about the fact that in the original film, it is the prince who's her love interest. And this guy, not a Nupo baby. He is indeed a bandit. And he just kind of like... A scrub. Yeah, yeah.

And he just like comes out of nowhere. And he's like, hey, I have nothing to offer but like hair. And I'm discount KJ. APPA. And I'm like, okay, sure, yeah. Woo. Yeah. Well, I mean, he's more Aladdin-coded. He's a little more like the lovable road.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess like what I bump up against with the idea of, like, updating this story. And this is a problem I've seen with a lot of the live action remakes is that each one is trying to sort of like correct for mistakes that. the past movies made that they're being remade for. So with the Aladdin remake,

the awful reality of the remake. No, that was terrible. Unforgivable. I was looking forward to seeing Will as the genie. Yeah. And it was just terrible. It was terrible. It was worse than this.

And in that movie, they tried to give Jasmine, like, a song called Speechless, which is basically the I Want song in this movie, just like very generic, like, I'm going to build to this crescendo, I'm the princess, blah, blah, blah. But they're trying to make.

it so that like Jasmine has more beyond. It's like a female empowerment song. It's supposed to be. And my problem with all of these like reimagining is that like they put on the most like bland generic version of this. We're going to make sure the audience knows and we signal that this is a girl who has power. She's fierce. She does all these things.

But then like there's nothing interesting about the character beyond the fact that she's supposed to be strong and kind and courageous. And I want her to have just like a weird quirk. or something, like, do something more. And this Snow White, just like the Jasmine, like, even Bell, at least was like into books. Like, at least she had, like, something. She had hobbies. And Ariel had more dimension to her as well.

A little bit. Like, there was more going on. But, like, if you're going to give me a less, quote, unquote, problematic version of this character than what we grew up seeing, give her a little bit more personality. Give her a little bit more sass. And I'd also say really quickly to Candace's earlier point around the podcast. politics of beauty. It's so subjective because Gao's a very beautiful woman. Yeah. Rachel is as well, but to have Gal positioned in a way who's a very beautiful woman

to be envious of Snow White. Optically, it's not going to make sense to some people because she's a very stunning woman. It would have been really interesting to see them really lean into that and do something a little bit more observational, a mean girls type of thing where it's like, this is a real thing. Like, we can't pretend that there isn't like the patriarchy hasn't set us up for for women hating each other just because of what they look like, even though they themselves. Like, so that's an interesting concept. Is it a dated concept? Maybe. But there's a way to update it that this movie just doesn't want to touch. There is a way to update it. Absolutely. There would have been a clever way because I also should clarify that beautiful women can be haters as well.

You know, I'm not saying that just because you're beautiful, that you're just above it all. No, beautiful women can absolutely be haters out to get you as well. And there is a way that that could have been written and translate it for the babies watching the film that wouldn't have been so obtuse as we saw unfold on screen. Yeah, I mean, I think one thing we're kind of ultimately talking about here is that they're trying to build out this movie on top of a pretty rickety frame. I'm not like here to say like Snow White sucks, but but like the 1937 film is a pretty slight plot. It's very short. It's a very short film. There's no meat on the bones of the romance involved. The I want song in the original Snow White is, I'm wishing for the one I love. And then it's like,

a man shows up. And I'm like, it's him. If only over that easy. Exactly. And the Evil Queen has no particular arc or backstory. And in this film as well, like, we are just told, like, she is motivated by the fact that she is evil. So the film doesn't really get any more complex than the original. It adds quite a bit to the runtime, but it's adding that in the form of songs and not necessarily in terms. of character development. I wish that we would have gotten just a little bit more backstory

to the evil queen. Why is she the only one in the land with magic powers? Yeah. If that exists in this realm, why is she the only one? And then on top of that, why is she sending someone

to kill Snow White when she could snap her fingers and do it herself? I have to say, guys, I really feel like this film, you kind of have to walk into it expecting nothing and maybe you'll get something out of it.

But I will say, I personally walked out thinking about how this film I felt was anti-PTO because it was about what happens when you, a king, leave your job for a day. Not good. And then I also felt like it was very pro-air Airbnb because there's a part where like I think it's grumpy. He's kind of like, I can't believe Snow White is staying here longer than her checkout date or whatever. She's like, oh, it's fine.

I'll clean. And I was like, ah, no, we're not. This whole like idea of like cleaning will fix my problems with housing. No, that's what I've been thinking about since. Okay. To be fair, she does enlist the help of the. rest of the dwarfs. It's not like she's doing it all by herself. She's teaching them. And they created the mess. And we haven't even talked about dopey what his real asset is.

Pretty privilege. Uh-oh. We're not having that. The rest of them are all like they look their 200 and however old they're supposed to be. They are like 200 plus years old. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But then he's like he's looking like he's the mad magazine kids. And they don't get PTO because they were high hoeing to work every day. Toiling in the minds. I mean, we didn't even talk about the fact that there are Alleged job is that they what, mine jewels and the mine? Why? Who is their boss? The queen, obviously. You saw she was decked out in all her regalia and her jewelry? Yeah, they're gathering jewels for the queen.

Which, by the way, Shar, when you mentioned cheap, the first thing I thought about is I did think the evil queen's outfits were very clairs coated to me. I heard every plastic jewel hit against me. Clare's hot topic. We're hitting all the mall stores in this. Right. Right. All right. Well, we want to know what. you think about Snow White, find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash PCH and on letterboxed at letterboxed.com slash NPR pop culture. We'll have a link in our episode description. Up next, what is making us happy this week? Now it's time for our favorite segment of this week and every week. What's Making Us Happy This Week? Candace Lim. I'm going to start with you, buddy. Yeah. So what's making me happy is the new song from Hiam. It's called Relationships. This song is so

driving down the PCH windows down ice latte in one hand coated. And I feel like a lot of the pop culture I'm very attracted to right now is like summer coated. I'm watching summer house. I'm binging the summer I turn pretty. It's really obvious I'm yearning for the sun. And this kind of completes the trifecta. And I think like if there are recession indicators, okay, I think time coming out with new music

is a vibe decatur because we're so back. You know, apparently they've been working on this song for like seven years. And I think every time I listen to this song, it takes me back to the last time I listen to Summer Girl, one of my favorite songs from them. And this song is kind of like letting you know of like this is an indicator of what's to come on their next album. Therefore, I am now motivated to get through this year. And so what's making me happy is Relationships by Hiam. Let's hear a little bit of it. Love it.

Nice. Great pick. Thank you so much, Candice Lim. Char Gossal, what's making you happy this week? So I'm going to be really, really quick because I do have two that I struggled wrestling with. The first of which is Beyond the Gates on CBS. I have never been a soap opera girl. That's just not been my steeds.

But I started watching this one. I guess because when I was little and watching soap operas, you know, at the babysitter's house, I never saw it from its inception. It didn't relate to me. But this is so camp. It is so ridiculous. But I'm like, I can't look away. It's so good.

So Beyond the Gates. And I'll also say the weekend view, which is a Saturday installation of the view on ABC. And they're talking all pop culture. And I kind of miss that. And so it's this panel of women, as we know, you know, Joy, Sarah, Sunny, et cetera, et cetera. Alyssa, they're talking pop culture. They're talking sex. They're talking.

And I'm like, I've enjoying this on Saturday morning. So the weekend view and beyond the gates. Nice. I love it. Thank you, Char. Aisha Harris, what's making you happy this week? a film that is quite the opposite of the movie we were just talking about. Naked Axe, which was written and directed by Bridget M. Davis.

This is a 1998 film, and it stars Jake Ann Jones as a black aspiring actress who's cast in this indie art film, but she's upset when she learns that it requires a nude scene. And this is a movie that explores black female sexuality, artistic integrity, friendship, mother-daughter, relationships. It had a very limited and short release in 1998. It was still critically acclaimed, but it kind of just fell off. And it's recently had a resurgence in the last year, thanks to Maya S. Kade, who is the creator and curator of the Black Film Archive and is also currently a scholar in residence at the Library

of Congress. She's been a champion of this film, and it got a release in limited art theaters, and it also got a release on Kino Lorber as a DVD. And you can now rent it wherever you can rent your stuff. So I highly recommend checking it out. Also, features a great performance by the late Ron Seafus Jones. It's just very special and different. And unlike any movie we've ever seen before.

And that is Naked Axe directed and written by Bridget M. Davis. Nice. Thank you, Aisha Harris. Well, I'm going to take us back to what Candice was talking about. I'm talking about spring and summer jams. And I have 2025's first album of perfect spring and summer jams. It is called Super Pedestrian. and it's by a wonderful Nashville singer-songwriter named Annie DeRuso.

This album has everything I love. Big guitars, catchy choruses, songs about boredom and terrible love. Hooks piled on top of hooks. Iisha Harris, I think you're going to like this record. It's joyous, it's funny, it's catchy, it's strange. If you are in a position to throw up in a window and just crank something, I highly encourage you to make it super pedestrian, perhaps beginning with this perfect anthem called Back in Town.

Is it in 1995? Is it? I love it. I love it. I love it. It is an amalgamation of so many things that I think you, Aisha, particularly love. Yes. That sounds right up my alley.

The whole record is fantastic. That's Annie DeRuso and her new album Super Pedestrian. That is what is making me happy this week. If you want links for what we recommended, plus some more recommendations, sign up for our newsletter at NPR.org slash pop culture newsletter. That brings us to the end of our show. Candice Lim, Char Jocel, Aisha Harris. Thanks so much for being here.

Thank you. Thank you. This episode was produced by Mike Katzf and Lenin Sherburn and edited by Jessica Reedy. Hello, Come In, provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Stephen Thompson, and we will see you all next week.