Pop Culture Happy Hour - The Traitors

Episode Date: February 25, 2026

The Peacock reality show The Traitors has become weekly appointment television, as the always impeccably dressed Alan Cumming presides over an unfriendly game full of alliances, secrets, treachery and murder. This season has been rich with drama. Players like Love Island contestant Rob Rausch and former Real Housewife Lisa Rinna have created some truly memorable moments in Traitors history. Ahead of the finale, we convene in the turret to debrief on it all.To access bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening for Pop Culture Happy Hour, subscribe to Pop Culture Happy Hour+ at plus.npr.org/happy.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Alliances, secrets, treachery, better. The reality show The Traders has become weekly appointment television, as the always impeccably dressed Alan Cumming presides over an unfriendly game that's kind of like celebrity mafia. The latest season has been rich with drama, and players like Love Islander Rob Rausch and real housewife Lisa Rina have created some truly memorable moments in Traders' history. So, of course, as the season winds down,

we had to convene in the turret to debrief on. at all. I'm Glenn Weldon. And I'm Ayesha Harris, and ahead of the finale, we're talking about everything that's happened on season four of The Traders. Tony yesterday is host of NPRs. It's been a minute. Brittany Loose. Welcome back, Brittany. It's good to be here. Thank you so much. I am so happy to have you here. This is going to be a very fun conversation, just like the show. So The Traders, here's how it works. Alan Cumming and his adorable dog, Lala, hosts a bunch of celebrities in a Scottish mansion for a social deduction game. At the beginning of the proceedings, each player is assigned a role, traitor or faithful.

Now, generally speaking, traders know who each other are, with a rare exception, we'll get into in a bit. And they work together to winnow down the faithfuls through manipulation and secret murders. Faithfuls, however, have no idea who's a fellow faithful or a traitor. It's their job to sniff out and banish traitors by vote during roundtables. though there's always the risk they end up mistakenly eliminating a faithful instead. And mild spoiler here, but they almost usually often end up mistakenly eliminating a faithful instead. In between all the deception, there are challenges to collect money to add to the cash prize pot at the end. So like previous seasons, this one has included celebrities across various pop culture universes.

You've got real housewife, Candice Dillard Bassett, comedian Ron Funches, Olympic skaters, Tara Lipinski, and John. Johnny Weir and on and on and on. The Traders is streaming on Peacock. Glenn, I'm going to start with you. The floor is yours. I was hoping the floor would be lied. Good, good. Look, I went into this season being a fan of Ron Funches, a fan of Monet Exchange,

and new Johnny Weir because he introduced a couple Eurovision semifinals. Everyone else, nope. I mean, I had a bad feeling about Michael Rapaport because I got sensory organs and a pulse. But other than that, nothing. I mean, and I'm surprised I'm watching the show. I'm always surprised because this is labeled as competitive reality, but like the competition is just vibes and it's nothing more than vibes. And I like my competitive reality to have some skill and professional experience and be a little less Stanford prison experimenty, but I'm in. My first impression of Rob, the guy who's making it all the way to the final, was that there wasn't a lot under all that facial symmetry, which of course is his strategy, which is exactly what he wanted me to think of him.

He wanted to be easily dismissable or seem it. He is that hot guy from high school, who you crush on from the distance, but then you talk to him one day and realize he's so basic like you need to redirect your energies. But he's playing a good game. It was a good game until this last roundtable when it became Traders Legendary. Now, is this guy benefiting from pretty privilege? Of course he is. But when it comes to his gameplay, when it comes to the specific choices he's making in his gameplay, I don't think you can say his looks mean he was born on third base. second base, though, I'd say definitely second, because he knows how to use that privilege.

People are just drawn to attractive people. That's what attractive means. And so he lets people lean into him. They come to him. He's withholding. He is, most importantly, still. And in an environment that's as rife with paranoia that feeds on paranoia like this environment does, you are going to be drawn to a calm presence, even if they're wearing overalls.

And this last episode was a testament to that where he comes into the roundtable with a target on his back and gets that target moved. Not, I think we'd all agree, not by virtue of any compelling argument he makes or any evidence he presents. No. Just based on hot calmness. And I want to be clear, Natalie is hot too. But she was coming in to that roundtable with agitation and urgency. And that is an energy that every faithful recognizes. It's the energy that they see in themselves.

and they don't want to be reminded of that. Yeah. So they banish it. And even though he is now on everybody's radar, in a way he has not been all season, I still think this is Rob's to Luz. Interesting. Okay. I agree with almost everything you said,

although I would add hot white boy privilege. Definitely. As you hinted out with Natalie, it's a different thing. Hot white boy privilege, you can do practically no wrong oftentimes in many situations. And we are seeing that play out in this show for sure. Now, Brittany, I understand this is your very first traitors. You're a baby trader. I'm enjoying it this season.

I'm enjoying it. I'm having a good time. I will say, though, the people that are left over right now are not the sharpest tools in the shed, which to your point, Glenn, it does make it a little tough to watch. And I'm not even, like, a strategy, like, reality game person. I think I saw the first season of Survivor when it came out when I was, like, in middle school. Yeah. I just was, like, watching Morra and Johnny and Tara rub them little brain cells together. It's kind of painful.

Mora Higgins, who is from Love Island, same universe as Rob, with a very, very thick Irish accent. Yeah, I love her accent. Adorable. Well, Brittany, I want to ask you, how familiar were you with any or some or most of the people on the show? Okay. Anybody who was from Big Brother or Survivor, I did not know who they were. And anybody from, like, there was a woman there from Real Housewives of Dubai. I just thought she was a random Australian lady.

I don't even know if she's Australian. I just was, I was rubbing my little brain cells together. I didn't know who she was. But pretty much everybody else I was familiar with or had some idea of. Yeah. As long as they were not from Survivor or from Big Brother, because I just don't watch those. I don't know anything about them. It's interesting to think about because I'm kind of in the same boat as both of you.

I knew, I could say, two people on the show before this. Ron Funches, who I love and I think he's great and we should talk more about him in a minute. And also, as you mentioned, Glenn, Michael Rappaport. I think he got banished because he's just so unpleasant. Yeah, no. That's clear it. I think he annoyed everybody and he annoyed me as a viewer. No, he is the definition of broke clock twice a day because, yes, he was absolutely so annoying.

But every once in a while, he was like sniffing in the right direction. He'd be like, why are we not looking at the two like hot guys over there? And he was like referring to like Rob. And I think he might have been referring to like Stephen Coletti, who is, of course, from Montreal. says he's from one tree hill, but he's really from Laguna Beach. Yeah. Yeah, let's be real here. But he was one of the few who, like, occasionally he would sniff in the right direction and to be like, Ron, you eat weirdly, you annoy everyone, and you just like have no, you're so uncouth. And yet sometimes you're right. But so like going into it, like not knowing most of the, who these,

most of these people are, I'm like, what is the draw here? Because I'm sure there are a lot of people who, because there's so many people and they're offering different places, it's like no one's going to know everyone. So what is the draw here? And I think, for me at least, the draw here is the way that so much of this can map onto the way people act in real life socially. I mean, yes, it's a game. Yes, there's all these theatrics and contrivances. But at the same time, as we already talked about, like with someone like Rob, it's just so funny how everyone's like, oh, it couldn't be Rob. It couldn't be Rob. And it's like, at some point, are we going to look at. look at the guy who like is always just laying in the cut just like chilling very quietly. What are we doing here? And in the way things switch so quickly in round tables from without anyone actually really having to do anything. I think of Candace, the real housewife of Podomac and how she was a traitor for for a while. And she was quite good at it in a different

way from Rob. But then she let it get the best of her. She decided to be petty because Rob saw that Lisa Ritter was getting heat and he was like, well, if you're not going to play, then we're going to have to sacrifice. And he understands at least a little bit like, yes, hot boy privilege, but as you said, Glenn, he also is pretty good at strategizing up to a point. It's that plus the fact that most of these people are not very, they're not very good. Like, there's just too many factors at play. And it feels like real life because oftentimes you are operating off of emotion, right?

Not strategy. My impression, this being my first season of Trader. is that Traders is basically like an office workplace. Even thinking about who they selected as the initial Traders this season. You have Candace Dillard Bassett from Real Housewives of Potomac. You have Lisa Rina of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. And you have Rob from Love Island. And these are people that probably would not hang like that in real life.

Right. However, they are pushed together. by the bounds of their workplace. Like, they are a trio of people that I have seen, like a type of people that I've seen before that really bang with each other at work. Would, like, eat lunch together, would take their breaks together. I think that that's kind of like what gets people so into traders is it's a bunch of people that are from random places doing totally different stuff with different skills

who are forced to have to cooperate with each other at times. And then also sort of like jockey. with each other. And then other times, like, you might be plotting against them or they might be plotting against you, you know, to figure out, like, who's going to speak first at the meeting or who's going to get which vacation days off. And I think that that aspect of it, these sort of like unlikely bedfellows who also are like constantly going friends to lovers to enemies, to lovers to friends, to enemies. I don't know. I just think that's something that a lot of people identify with. And like also, too, people who do well in those environments in real life,

are also the people who tend to do well on traders. How many clueless white guys who are cute have any of us worked with who don't know anything? Wouldn't know how to open up PowerPoint. How many women of color get thrown under the bus in the workplace? Sorry, not speaking about Candace. Candace played bad game. Natalie got thrown under the bus. Candace played bad game.

Yeah. And then also, too, like how many people are really good at reading the room as Rob has been. I think he's actually played a really good game for every episode except for the penultimate episode of the season. Like, some people are just really, really good at reading the room and figuring out who they need to kind of like, like, when they need to go with the flow and when they need to transgress. And those are people that tend to do well in the workplace. And I just think, I don't know, to me, Traders is like, I think it's something that most people can relate to maybe more than they realize if they're not thinking about it that way. Okay. But I accept, Brittany, that everybody on this show, just about everybody in the show does have exactly the same job.

Most of these people's jobs are to be on reality TV. But they fulfill different roles, though. To find their light, to produce themselves, to produce their own storylines, to create drama, to make sure that the producers cut to them and that the editors don't leave them on the cutting room floor. That's why it feels so squishy and meta. And that's why, even though it calls itself a social deduction game, this is all social, no deduction. The faithfuls willfully dupe themselves every time into believing that they have some evidence that there's some basis. that there's some basis for actual deduction. There never is.

There is only vibes on this show because you can accuse someone of traitor behavior all the time. It doesn't mean anything because there's no definition for it. It's whatever you want it to be. So this is just confirmation bias the game. And that's why it's mob justice and not allow that manipulating people is a social skill. It's just squishy. It feels more social experiment than game to me. But that's me off in the corner arguing over semantics by myself.

I don't care. I think you're right, though. It is definitely more social experiment than game. The game, I don't think, is that well constructed. I think maybe that's why I didn't get into it the first time I watched it because I was like, the game's not picking up. And also, I think it was like between the second season of Traders and House of Villains. And I'm just a little tackier. And so I went straight for how, I was like, well, Jacks Taylor and Tiffany.

Tiffany, New York Pollard. I'm like, sign me up. I want to see Tiffany New York Pollard on the show. I have said this on the record. You have said this before. She would be so good. I can completely agree that mostly it's just vibes. Also, the fact that the rules are constantly changing all the time.

Even this season was the first time, I think, at least in the U.S. version, where they have a secret trader where, like, there's a traitor in the midst. But, like, the other traders don't know who they are and the faithfuls don't know who they are. This season, it was none other than Mama Kelsey, Donna Kelsey. The most obvious secret traitor. I've never even seen this. show before and I said, why is this lady here? She's just like, I'm just a mom. I'm just a mom.

What did you guys think of the secret trader thing in theory? Because I like it in theory, not an execution. I agree. But I love getting a taste, a small one of what the faithfuls are going through because the internet loves to pile on every season, not just this season, Brittany, but every season it's like the faithfuls are idiots. Yeah. But the not knowing and the thinking you don't know, but then having suspicions, but

then doubting those suspicions, that is the heart of this game that we don't really get a sense of at home. Exactly. What the secret trader does is give you. a better sense of that. I didn't like the feeling of not knowing who it was, even though it was very obvious. But I love the moment of the reveal. Being part of it in that way and feeling a little bit more empathy, I guess, for these idiots on the show. The secret trader aspect of it, I thought, was very interesting. And I kind of wish that had been allowed to play out a little bit longer,

because like you said, it was way too obvious. And it also gave the fatefuls like an early, like, too much, like, ooh, we got someone really early. Like, we're good at this. And then, of course, like the rest of the show, they have not been as good. There was one moment this season, where it was less about vibes and more about actually trying to strategize and hold on to some evidence. And that was Ron when he heard Portia slip up and say something that suggested that she might have been a traitor.

And was she? No. But he was literally acting on actual evidence. He said many times as he came into this house, like I don't know any of you. all, I'm going to try and play this game actually, because that's the thing, right? It's also, and maybe, I think, Glenn, you've seen maybe some of the non-celebrity versions of this. But, like, the thing about the celebrity version of these shows is the fact that most people have no, at least one or two other people in the house or have worked with them before.

Oh, sure. There's relationships with, which adds to all of the dynamics and the drama and whatever. But Ron was coming in, like, I'm just a comedian and I'm here and I don't know any of you. I loved that because you got a taste of how you might move if you didn't actually know anyone and how that might actually make for a more interesting game. Now, was he wrong a lot? Yes, but he was still trying to play the game like the way ostensibly it should be played in an ideal world, right? I mean, I see, I disagree.

I don't think he was playing an ideal game simply because he so rejected the social aspect of the game. And that to me was a part of the reason I think what he was. wrong a lot. And also, part of the reason why for me, I sometimes felt a little bad for him, because sometimes I felt like people were kind of misreading him. Right. But I also felt like he was like, I don't want to get to know any of you. I don't want to talk to anyone. And I'm like, I'm sorry, dude. Like, unfortunately, the way that the game is constructed, it's like so that you all are constantly having to interact with each other. Also, like, that's a good strategy. And you for getting information from people.

Side note, I knew that this season did not have people who were going to be super smart at the game because somehow they believe that Johnny and Tara didn't know each other. I'm like, don't even get me. Just put your thinking caps on for a second. How big is the world of Olympic figure skating that you think they just wouldn't know each other? And they're around the same age. So it's like it's not like they wouldn't have. Still, but like I think that like, you know, obviously I feel.

for Ron as a person who came in, not really knowing anybody else. So I could see how that would probably feel very strange because you're like, these people are so, because there are also, a lot of them are bizarre. So you're like, these people are weird as hell. I don't know who any of you are. There's a lot going on. But unfortunately, the way the game is constructed, the fact that it's a reality television show, even if you are on a more cutthroat show like a survivor or a big brother,

your social game. However you want to approach it in whatever way works for you is unfortunately something. I think that is just a built-in part of the gameplay. And it's not that he tried it and he failed at it. It's that he was like, I don't care to engage in this at all. And I'm like, well... And I do want to jump in here and just note that, you know, Ron Funch's after his time on the show, he's talked about how it kind of made him reflect.

And he was hearing from people who were watching the show saying, like, oh, I see a lot of you and me. I'm autistic. And so he actually wound up going to get an assessment. And so he's kind of started the process of, like, looking into that for himself. He said, you know, I had a son. He's talked about this in his stand-up comedy.

He has a son who is autistic, and he always thought of himself as an ally. And, you know, he's also described the experience as some type of cruel trauma being on the show. But, you know, at least he's finding something about himself, and I'm just so happy to see him having this glow up and being well-received. He's just a fun guy, and I'm really happy, and I was so, such a fan of Ron. and an even bigger fan now. Yeah, I empathized. I mean, that's the game I would want to play.

I would want it to be based on evidence, even if it's evidence I'm mistook. And it's just not. You're absolutely right, Brittany. It's just, that's not this game. This game is too squishy. But also, though, how do you get evidence? You have to have, whether your social game is talking to people

or maybe trying to sit a little bit further back in the cut and watch, which I'll say, like, Eric is always wrong too. Eric, NOMB, always wrong. I was wrong. Yeah. But he was really. really good at sort of like kind of sitting back and just kind of going with the flow. I do think that part of gathering evidence, you have to interact with people, whether you

like it or not, to actually gather the evidence. I'd like when Ron got his evidence of Portia, he got it from listening to a conversation. So I just want to jump in and say that. I think the evidence is important, but how are you going to gather it if you're not interacting with everybody else? And speaking of always wrong, but being always wrong with style, I mean, let's talk about Maura. She is thoroughly entertaining.

I don't think she's going to win, but I think she's worthy of a win. She and I should be friends. I think we'd be tick as thieves. And we could go see watering heights. And I liked how far she'd come. I think she could go fart her. And finally, last one, this is my last one. I kind of wonder if she was ever out on the grounds doing those challenges if she ever

taught putty tat. Was dat of her a ting she taught Chita. Wow. I liked Laura. I was a fan of her. hosting After Sun, which is like the end of week sort of like after show for Love Island because I am a Love Islander. I think she's thirsting for Rob. I think that is blinding her. She is so deep in his pocket. She's practically lint. Yeah, that's a problem. But how do you think this is going to end? Because on paper, you know, Rob has been playing in drag race terms, he's having a Bob the Drag Queen Bianca Del Rio season. He is coasting to you. I don't see Rob splitting it with Eric because in Rob's

mind, Eric hasn't earned it. He's just ridden along. Now, that's why Rob chose him because he wanted somebody to be, you know, just do what I say. But I think Rob is going to ride that horse until it collapses and then he's going to pick up a saddle and cross the finish line on his own. If we are to believe that Rob is as empathic as he has been saying he is throughout this entire season, he's always like. Yeah, who's saying that? He is. So maybe I am also, too, drawn in by his beautiful chiseled face. See, I watched Love Island, so I'm like... The occasional moments when his son...

Is he from the South? I don't even know, but sometimes he sounds... He's from Alabama. That's where... I thought his and Ron's relationship was very sweet. The country boy thing. He's Alabama all the way. Yeah, yeah. So if we're to believe that, like, he might help Eric. Like, he hasn't shown so far any sort of, like, inclinations of cheating Eric. He's told Eric when someone else says his name. I mean, he did the same thing with Lisa, and he tried to save her, but she just kept

herself and then jam jam jam jam rocho who was from survivor the kiss the kiss the kiss the kiss so like I don't know I think it's possible he might just keep it for himself but I kind of think I hope Rob shares it with Eric even if he hasn't kind of he hasn't earned it Eric wasn't great as a faithful he's a lousy traitor his strategy is a traitor is flop sweat and silence And that's not a good strategy. He is such a Muppet. It's both adorable and frustrating. He's confused by everything.

But with certainty. He's confused, but he's like, I'm not confused. I know who's handwriting that was. Remember when he was like, I'm a singer. I know I can tell people's like voices blindfolded. There's like, oh, yeah. I don't know what's going on, baby. I don't know what's going to win it all.

I think that Rob's going to keep the money. I don't think that Eric, I just think that Eric is, extremely valuable to him right now. Exactly. I think they could have maneuvered more. I think, well, at least I think Rob could have maneuvered more easily with Kristen there because Kristen already suspected Eric. So he could have just let things play out, like how they played out with Lisa.

He could have gone with the flow. And then, you know, kept on in the picks like Mora as his co-trader or something like that and really coasted all the way to the end because Lord Hemercy, again, great after Sunhost. But, oh, Mora sister. Yeah. Traders is not your forte. Okay.

You have swayed me like I was at the roundtable. There we go. You are probably right. And I still think he should have picked Kristen instead. Kristen Kish, of course, who was a host on Top Chef. I just think instead of Eric, like, she probably would have been a smarter choice. Agreed. But you know what?

It is what it is. Rob cannot be perfect all the time. That's true. Brittany, I have one recommendation for you. Your next season of Traders should be Celebrity Traders, UK. That is the platonic ideal of what this show could be if they drew contestants exclusively from the ranks of actors, comedians, musicians, journalists, athletes. I mean, there was one YouTube guy. But people with actual life skills instead of people whose job it is to go on shows like this.

Thank you. It's genial and funny and warm and friendly competition. It's going to sour you on traders because after that season, like, that's the one that's closest to my heart. This is fine. You say it's this season of UK traders or UK celebrity? There's only one Celebrity Traders UK so far. And that's the only one that there is. That's going to be my next one.

The host is different. The dynamic is different. Alan loves making fun of these, you know, fatuous reality show people. Claudia Winkleman, who's the host on the UK version, really is really pulling for everybody. She just wants everybody to do their best. It's a different vibe, but it's great. Some of the same challenges you'll see elsewhere, but a lot of fun. Thank you for the rec.

I love that recommendation, Glenn. Although I do, look, I love Ellen coming. He had one of my favorite moments of this entire series so far that I've seen, which is when Jam Jam was murdered, and his line was, Jam Jam is toast, toast. Yes. So perfect.

So perfect. Well, friends, we have come to the end of another roundtable. We are fully locked in for this finale. You should let us know what you think about the traders. find us on Facebook at facebook.com slash PCH. That brings us to the end of our show, Glenn Weldon, Brittany Luce. Thanks so much for being here. And Brittany, welcome, welcome to the turrets.

It's so lovely to have you here. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. And thank you all for welcoming me to the Traders family. I'm excited to check out Celebrity Traders UK. Thank you. Yeah, yeah. And just a reminder that signing up for Pop Culture Happy Hour Plus is a great way to support

our show and public radio. And you get to listen to all of our episodes, sponsor, free. So please go find out more at plus.npr.org slash happy hour or visit the link in our show notes. This episode is produced by Hufza Fathema and Mike Kassiv and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, Kameen provides our theme music. Thanks so much for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. I'm Aisha Harris and we'll see you all next time.