Pop Culture Happy Hour - Unapologetically basic TV and movies that we love

Episode Date: September 10, 2026

When you hear the words “pumpkin spice latte,” maybe you think of fall. But maybe you just think about the pleasures of something unapologetically basic. The same can be said for movies and TV. Today, we are revealing some of the most basic things we really love – including National Treasure, Mamma Mia! Here We Go Again, Dateline NBC, and The People’s Court.Looking for more episodes like this? Check out: We talk pop culture pumpkin spice lattes: they're basic but we love themWe debate the best movies to watch on an airplaneYouTube rabbit holes that are great distractionsConnect with Pop Culture Happy Hour:Letterboxd / FacebookOur weekly newsletterSupport public media with NPR+ and enjoy perks for over 25 podcasts like this one. This show’s perks include bonus episodes and sponsor-free listening. Learn more at plus.npr.org.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

You're listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour, the podcast that keeps you plugged in about the latest and greatest in pop culture. Now, if you're a pop culture enthusiast who is not following the show yet, we're recommending you fix that right away by following Pop Culture Happy Hour on your favorite podcast app. I'm defining basic here as the familiar, right? The comfortable, the mainstream, not in any way challenging or difficult. Because you know what this film interrogates is nothing. When you hear the words pumpkin spice latte, maybe you think of fall, maybe you think of cloves, but maybe you just think, ah, the pleasures of something that is unapologetically basic. Well, the same can be said for movies and television.

So today, the hosts of Pop Culture Happy Hour are revealing some of the most basic things we really, really love. I'm Linda Holmes, and joining me are my fellow hosts, Aisha Harris. Hello, Aisha. Hello, Linda. I'm slightly embarrassed, but we're going to get through this together. We're going to do it together. Stephen Thompson, hello, Stephen. Hello, Linda. Glenn Weldon, hi, Glenn. Pumpkin spice must flow. Hey, Linda. That's right. All right. We actually didn't talk too much about what we meant by pop culture pumpkin spice lattes, but I think we didn't really have to.

These are things that are unpretentious, ubiquitous, ultra-basic pop culture pleasures for which we can confess a, weakness. Stephen, I am going to start with you because I feel like it and because I know that the basic lies within you. Tell me what you chose. I am nothing, if not a basic, basic man. So I think I've mentioned this before, but my partner and I have a family tradition where every July 4th weekend, we gather to watch a big, dumb movie about America. Independence Day is key to this tradition, so is Team America World Police. But the linchpin of this tradition is the extremely convoluted movie franchise National Treasure. Now, if you've never seen the National Treasure movies, or if you've seen the National Treasure movies and forgotten them immediately, they're from

2004 and 2007. They star Nicholas Cage as a treasure hunter who comes from a long line of treasure hunters, as one does. In both movies, he winds up in embarking on a highly ridiculous, extremely Byzantine plan to steal various national artifacts, including the literal Declaration of Independence in order to unlock secret treasures and clear his family name and blah, blah, blah. It's very complicated. These movies are so silly, but what makes them transcendent as pop culture pumpkin spice lattes is that I watch them and forget them almost immediately. Which means that every time I watch. them, I'm like a newborn baby. Like no recollection whatsoever. Every time I watch National Treasure, which I have watched several times now, it's new to me. Basically, if the Da Vinci Code is too

plausible for you, too devoted to airtight logic, the National Treasure movies are right there. They're streaming on Disney Plus for you to watch, enjoy, forget immediately and then watch again. And let me tell you, we've been waiting almost 20 years for National Treasure 3. And when it comes out, I will be first in line and I will remember none of it the next day. Is that a thing that's actually happening or is that a joke? They've been talking about it, planning it. I mean, these movies made a ton of money. There's then a TV spinoff on Disney Plus.

They've definitely kept this franchise alive, but there have been like aborted plans to reboot this franchise for almost 20 years now. And it just hasn't happened. They haven't been happy with the scripts because, you know, these other two scripts, they're a hard act to follow. Let me ask you this. I have never seen any of these movies. Can you invite me some year?

Yes. All right. My God, man. It's on the books. Come over now. It's on the books. We got to watch National Treasure. Like Linda, this was one of those cinematic phenomenons that missed me completely.

So during COVID, I thought, I'll watch the first movie. I'll dip a toe in. And that toe got covered in stupid so fast that I whipped it right back. I mean, look, I am a person who consumes a lot of media involving people in tights and capes, beating the snout out of each other. I know from stupid. I know the joys of stupid. This just isn't the species of stupid that works on me.

I will say, I don't think I've ever watched these movies when it was in July 4th weekend, and I do think that's part of the fun of just like silly summer streaming nonsense. Is it stupid? Yes. Is that part of the fun? Absolutely. Yes, yes. Well, look, I'm going to go on record here and say that I have also not explored this franchise.

Come to town. Come to town. Honestly, this would have been right in my wheelhouse, at least age-wise, when this movie came out. But I completely skipped it. And I've definitely seen it on in the background when I'm, like, at the gym on cable TV and it's playing. It's a TBS mainstay. Oh, yeah. It's that kind of thing.

But I've never actually tried to watch it. I've seen some of the most obscure direct-to-video Nicholas Cage movies. And yet somehow I have not seen this. I don't know if I would recommend watching it by yourself. Oh, well, no, I would never. Never. I would need some lubricants and at least two or three other people to watch this with, I think. And where is Nicholas Cage in this?

Like, what level of Nicholas Cage is he? Ooh, good question. He's still kind of a Nicholas Cage leading man. Okay. And as far as the weirdness that you're going to get from a Nicholas Cage, I mean, first of all, his dad in these films is played by John Voigt. Sure. So they certainly lean into, like, this guy is slightly odd. But it's not as, like, fiercely committed.

as your kind of wildest Nicholas Cage performances, for sure. It's not face off. It's not Conair. Vampires Kiss. No. Okay. Yeah, that's another strike against it for me. I want my Nicholas Cage weird, or at least if he's going to be a leading man,

still a little bit weird, like Moonstruck. Like, I want that kind of stuff. Sure, sure. I don't know. But I admire this basicness. I love it for you. I'm not saying these movies are great. No, I'm saying they're basic and they're fun under certain circumstances.

I think that's going to be a really. recurring theme of this entire episode. Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree. So, Stevens pick is the National Treasure franchise. We appreciate you, buddy. Now, Glenn, you were talking about how you have taken in a lot of content, shall we say,

that has people in tights beating each other up. You did not pick anything like that for this, but you did pick a film. Tell me about it. All right. Producer Lenin Sherburn, hit me one time. Such a good. pick. Such a good pig. And against type.

All right. We all know what that is, right? And let's stipulate, that is not just Dancing Queen by Abba. That is a cover of Dancing Queen by Abba, the second cover of Dancing Queen by Abba that occurs in the Mamma Mia verse. It was first covered, of course, in Mamma Mia the movie 2008. This is the version

from 10 years later, the film Mamma Mia. Here we go again. Which, I would argue, is as basic as it gets. This is alkaline. This is pH-14. This is cinematic draino. I'm defining basic here as the familiar,

right? The comfortable, the mainstream, not in any way challenging or difficult. Because you know what this film interrogates is nothing. Paternity, right? Well, sure. But that's more the first film. And this is familiarity. That's true. Freshly interpreted for 2018,

but not in any way that is a take on the material that undermines it, deconstructs it, or critiques it, or comments on it or holds it up to any kind of scrutiny. That's not the mission brief here. This is just serving it up and serving it up with love. And Mama Me, here we go again. We covered this on this show. I reviewed it for NPR. I said then that this movie is not just a box of rose wine. It is not just a box of rose wine. It is not just a box of white sinfindo. It is a box of blush wine. It is that basic, that enjoyable. And in the scene we just heard, a flotilla of boats covered in colorful flags carrying two of Amanda Seifred's character's father figures, Colin Firth and Stellant Scarsguard, sort of curve into the harbor.

And her characters dance down to the docks to meet them. And the characters on the boats disembark and dance on the docks. And I said at the time, I'm going to keep this scene in like a tab on my browser just to have at the ready when the afternoons get long and dispiriting because it is by. Alm in Gilead. Now, both Mamma Mia's are just serving up familiar songs in new contexts, and that is the very specific pleasure that they afford. They are, in other words, both jukebox musicals. And I'm here to say a few words, not just to praise Mama Mia, Here We Go Again, which is better than the first film, just if you just do the calculus of it, because we're going to take a song away from Pierce Brosnan, smart move, and we're going to introduce Cher and give

her two songs. That's a winning formula. That is good. math. Also, the main characters in this movie actually treat the staff of the hotel and the locals as human beings and just ignore them and never thank them. That's also an improvement. But I am here mostly to defend the jukebox musical as a basic institution. But first, I want to get your reactions. When I say jukebox musical, what are your associations with it? I would say mixed, right? I think some are good and are a lot of fun. And some are so transparently just a thing to hang songs on that there is no reason. to really watch the entire thing rather than just listening to the songs. So mixed, I would say. Yeah, I have been in a jukebox musical, actually. It was not a good one. It was all shook up at the Ogunquit Playhouse in 2009, co-starring Sally Struthers.

Wow. So I love this. I have very mixed feelings about jukebox musicals. I have really positive associations with them, in part because Glenn Weldon and I took in the share show on Broadway together, sat next to each other. drinking very costly rosés out of giant, very expensive plastic cups. Yeah, we did. And it was a hoot and a holler.

So I think when I think of Jukebox musicals, I think I'm just agreeing with Glenn Weldon, that they are a basic pleasure. Are they a mixed bag? Absolutely. But also, you have not yet spoken the one word about Mamma Mia, here we go again, that really sells how great this movie is. And that word is, Fernando. I was getting to it.

Trust me, I was getting to it. All right. So here's the thing about jukebox musicals. Theater folks looked down on them. Certainly theater critics looked down on them. I was in the trenches long enough to know that. I would imagine, Stephen, that music folks also looked down on them because they're basically greatest hits albums, right?

That's how they're seen, I guess. Right. You're not really even reviewing them as any kind of new thing. Right. Because in a jukebox musical, it's not the joy of discovery. Like, you're hearing a new melody you've never heard before, and you're like, well, this is going to become a personality. And you're also not getting...

the novelty of freshness of new interpretation. If you've seen Sondheim's Company 15 times, you know the trajectory of the evening, but you don't exactly know how they're going to, like, put a spin on these familiar songs. In a jukebox musical, you know the songs are ready or they don't work at all. What they deliver instead, and I was struggling to figure out how to say this, it's the joy of ingenuity. How do we fit these songs into the narrative? That is the joy they offer.

It's musical Tetris, right? Where do these songs come in? When do they come? What sets them up? What specific sequence of events? or especially the thing I love is the dialogue that will occur. Just before we hear the opening bars of a song like Dancing Queen, a song that we already, as a people, as a culture, we're already off book on.

Because there is, even when it's sweaty, especially when it's sweaty, there is a smile you get on your face. You turn to your fellow theater goer when it happens. And you're like, wait, Andy Garcia's character's name is Fernando. And Cher's character, Ruby, knew him when they were younger. And that is a pleasure that is so specific, so bespoke, so artisdal, so endemic to the jukebox musical and only the jukebox musical. And you're watching Cher, white knuckle her way down those stairs towards Fernando asking if he can hear the drums. Can you hear the drums for Manbo?

I'll give you this much. It's not a feat of pure creation like songwriting is that happens in musicals. It's basically a feat of construction. It's not an art. It's not a science. I guess I would say it's a craft. You know, it is made for commercial purposes and to deliver that pop, that little bolus of delight that I think needs to be respected a hell a lot more than it is. Interesting.

I like this. I love this for you. I have not seen Mamma Mia. Here We Go Again. I have seen Mamma Mia. Aisha Harris. I've seen Mamma Mia. It sounds like Mama Mia here again might actually be like the Magic Mike double XL of its franchise.

That's a great similar. Yeah. It's very similar. Eisha, it's very similar. Aisha, it's very similar. film I considered picking for this segment. I love Magic Black Double XL. I think it may be too good to be considered basic.

Yeah, I agree. But look, I appreciate the simple pleasures. And I will say that, like, Abba is a pop group, probably the rare pop group, actually, that actually lends itself to this type of theatricality. I saw the Tupac Jukech jukebox musical on Broadway. Oh, boy. It was awful. It didn't make sense.

It's Tupac. And I kind of blame Lynn Manuel Miranda for that because not that he was involved, but I feel like his brand of rap made people think that that would translate to Broadway. It didn't work. But it sounds like I need to check out Mamma Mia, here we go again. You kind of convinced me. You need to get as many straight women and gay men in a room as you can. And as much blush wine as you can fit on a shelf.

And let the spigot flow. All right. Honestly, double feature. National Treasure. Mama Mia, here we go again. We're doing it. We're doing it. We're doing it.

All right, so that is Mamma Mia. Here we go again. I think there is some charm in the fact that they actually called it. Here we go again. Wisely, wisely. All right. There are two films. We have got some very basic television right after the break, so stick around.

Welcome back. If you are not following Pop Culture Happy Hour yet, hit that follow button on your podcast app. Stay plugged in on everything PCHH has to offer. We are continuing. our selection of pop culture pumpkin spice lattes, by which we mean the very, very basic. And as soon as this idea for this episode came up, I knew exactly what I was going to say.

And I said it immediately to our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. I said, this is how I'm going to get show value out of all of the old episodes of Dateline that I watched. Now, Dateline NBC started as a regular general interest news magazine in the early 90s. And there used to be this world of primetime network news magazines of general interest similar to something like 60 minutes, right? Right. 20-20, 48 hours, dateline, those are sort of the big three. All of them over time, and particularly in the last maybe eight to 10 years, kind of the post-serial environment, all of them have pretty much become true crime murder shows.

And so you will sit down, you will get, you know, a 911 call followed by an investigation, followed by an arrest, followed by trial. To say that on Dateline, usually the husband did it is an oversimplification, but not a lie. Listen, I am well aware of the ethical morass of the true crime genre and the enjoyment thereof. But in some ways, I appreciate the less pretentious, the less fancy, the more basic approach to true crime of something like Dateline than something where they try to dress it up and make you think that they are doing something that is not a bit sensational. I do appreciate, and, you know, listen, none of this makes this particular pleasure, anything that it isn't. But I do appreciate that I think over time they've gotten a little better at covering the murders of women. women who are not white. They have covered a decent number of people who have been exonerated, people who are wrongfully convicted so that you don't get purely, the investigation is always

correct, the police are always correct. They do spend some time very often on, you know, people who are suspected of the crime and perhaps remain under suspicion for a long time and, you know, ultimately are not guilty of anything, which I think is important balance to provide. I am not like saying this is not what it is. But this show and our also 2020 and also 48 hours are things that I sometimes put on when I'm doing something like sorting laundry or cleaning the house, going through clutter for the simple reason that they appeal to me as, you know, a story that will ultimately have an ending. Yeah.

The overwhelming majority of the time on Dateline, not always, but the overwhelming majority of the time, the story is the person gets arrested and is ultimately convicted and goes to prison and good. That's usually the ending. And along the way, you do get to enjoy a certain number of the cliches of Dateline, which I am given to believe they even have a bit of a sense of humor about. Sure. One of the hosts, Josh Mancoitz, follows me on Blue Sky, and I'm given to believe that he has found occasional humor in things like, I love watching somebody on Dateline being interviewed early in the episode and trying to figure out from what they're wearing, whether they're in prison. Because sometimes you look at it and you're like, that person is wearing a plain blue collared shirt.

He could be in prison. Maybe orange is his color. He could be in prison. And you realize clearly it's something that they do intentionally. They try to make it difficult from the interview to tell that this is a person who they are interviewing who is incarcerated. And those little things like Keith Morrison, who is the kind of white-haired correspondent who Bill Hader used to do on SNL and things like that, certainly I think leans into the cliches of. his voice and his delivery, I'm not super proud of this. But like a pumpkin spice latte, I do find some enjoyment in it. I do find some satisfaction in it. Stephen and I both love comeuppance.

These are very often comeuppance stories. And so, you know, with appropriate understanding of the ethical quandaries of the true crime genre, I do watch old dayline sometimes. I love it. I love it. Yeah. And I think you get at part of the appeal of something like this, which one thing that makes a great pop culture pumpkin spice latte is familiar rhythms. Totally. And the familiar rhythms that you're describing of this show are not unlike the familiar rhythms of a law and order. I was going to say, yes. You know exactly what you're going to get. These beats are all extremely pleasing.

And of course, the fact that it's about real life murder kind of creates some kind of ethical squishiness. But come on, you're not made a stone. Yeah, I mean, you addressed my question. which was, you know, the true crime genre a lot. It's 2026. Lots been written and said about it. And the kind of people who dump on it tend to be the kind of people who dump on any kind of genre. Right.

The difference is that there is, as we've all talked about, there's real human suffering. Lives ended or ruined or both. There is. And of course, that can be approached responsibly. It can also be crassly exploited. Yes. I don't know where Dateline falls on this spectrum. Where does it fall on this spectrum?

I will say usually Dateline involves. the participation of the families of the victim of the crime. I do appreciate that because it gives them an opportunity to talk about the person and to talk about the impact on the family and the loss. So I think you get that side of it a little bit. With that said, I think all true crime has that, right, including the absolute most high brow, you know, I mean, in cold blood has that, you know. And I guess I feel like with this, I feel sort of medium. I feel both that I learn, if you pay attention to this with a kind of a critical eye, with a little bit more of a societally critical eye, you can pick up a lot of things about stuff like the risks of getting together very, very young,

the risks of substance issues in relationships between people and how that can kind of spin out of control. the way that people respond to ego injury with violence and things like that. And there are times when I look at the show and I think, like, they have got to get a little more savvy about some of this stuff. Because one of the things you do get is, like, nobody could believe that this guy was violent because he worked in law enforcement. And if you watch these for long enough, you're like, yeah, you got to stop being quite so shocked. Like, again, not because it's everybody, but, like, you got to stop being, like, especially shocked, right? Yeah. And you do get those things.

And so I think you've got to keep a little bit of a critical eye. But again, it's compelling to me. And I'm just fessing up, Glenn. I'm just fessing up. I appreciate it. I get it. That's what we're all here for. Unlike the previous two picks, this is one that I definitely have watched a lot of, not recently,

but it was part of my education growing up. Definitely watch 48 hours. Definitely watch Dateline. Remember coming across things like to catch a predator. Like this was such an era. And it's still airing now, right? But like, oh, yeah. They're still making it.

I'm just curious how their ratings are now that we have all these true crime podcasts and what that's like. I don't honestly know, but I do know that it's been incredibly durable. And I think one of the reasons it has been so durable is that it has shifted so much. I mean, I think if they were still trying to make a 60 minutes type of show for prime time, it probably wouldn't be. But again, 48 hours and 2020 have gone exactly the same direction. They're all now true crime shows. For the most part, at certain. moments in history, particularly like at the beginning of COVID, you know, some of these shows did

take time and do kind of more general interests, kind of know what's going on with this. And they will still do sometimes remembrances. Dateline actually just ran a Dolly Parton remembrance as one of their episodes. So it still happens. It's sort of like the transformation into something different from what these news magazines originally were is thorough but not complete. Yeah. Yeah. So that is my pick. My pick is old episodes of Dateline and new ones, but, you know, if I'm doing the binge watch for house cleaning, it'll be old ones, which I find on Peacock. And I'm going to go to you. I should have closed this out with something that I also love. And I'm very excited about talking about.

Same. Look, I don't think this is a secret. I think I've talked about this briefly in the past on this show. But I love the people's court. They do. It is. Now, look, this is a little. a long-running show. It's no longer running new episodes, but it ran from the 1980s into the early

90s. Back then it was presided over by Judge Joseph Wapner. And then it was revived in the mid-90s and eventually landed on Judge Marilynne, who is the one that I have always watched. I've never seen any of the earlier, but even Ed Koch. Love Judge Millian. Oh, see, I was a Wapner guy. Oh, were you? Did you watch the Ed Koch one, too? Because, like, former New York City mayor. I think I was the show by the time cops came in. So, like, it's had multiple hosts, but the only one that I know, the only people's court host to me is Judge Marilyn Millian. She was the longest running host from 2001 to 2023.

And when I say that I watch this show, I mean, I watch it daily, like, every day. It is odd in the background. If I were in a dentist office, it would just be playing the whole time. But instead, I'm at home and I'm doing laundry or I'm making myself dinner or food or whatever. It's on in the background. This is a cheesy, cheesy show. So the basic concept of this show, if you've ever watched any court show, it's similar to others of that era.

People have their disputes. It's low stakes, civil disputes, and they come to be on the show, air out their grievances, try and win their case or, you know, not have to pay whatever the plaintiff thinks they owes. In the theme song of this show, they lay it all out. Like, basically, the reason why you've gone it is because the show is going to pay whatever the settlement is. So that's kind of the benefit.

That's why people would necessarily go on the show to humiliate themselves possibly or not come off in the best light. Look, they're all kind of cheesy, but people's court really leans into the cheese. There is the theme song, This is the plaintiff, Annabella Baisal. She says she hired the defendant to do some construction. And then you have the announcer as the people are coming into the court, the plaintiff and the defendant are like, this is the plaintiff, Susie Q, she's upset because her landlord hasn't given back her security deposit. It's like, it's so ridiculous.

And then you have your cast of characters. For a lot of the show during Milian's reign, Doug Llewellyn, who is a court reporter, he's kind of like the one who's always waiting for after the case is done. He's waiting in the hallway for the plaintiffs and the defendants to come out. And he is so... He was there in the Wapner era, too. Yes, he was there for a very long time. And he has this way of being both pleasant and nice, but also shady as hell. Like, he'll tell, like, the litigants to their face, like, you're not very smart, are you?

You made a dumb decision. You might be going to jail. Like, it's like, he'll be like, did you really think that was going to work? Like, love it, love it. And then you have outside, and not actually outside of where they record it, but, like, you have Harvey Levin. Harvey Levin. That's right. Yes, co-hosts and legal reporter who stands outside somewhere. It looks like L.A., but I'm not exactly sure where he is. But he is outside. In the middle of the cases, he'll be talking to like a group of random people. This is the people's court part. This is the people get to comment. And he tends to ask leading questions or not very good. This is not a place where you go for deep thoughts or deep criticisms of the legal system. This is where you just ask someone, so is it all right for a man to pay for everyone?

everything on the first date. That's what happens here. This is not very deep. And Harvey Levin also, I didn't realize this for many years, but he is also the founder of TMZ. So, yeah, this is where we are. And then, of course, there's Douglas McIntosh, the court officer at the bailiff, who is always standing next to Judge Amelia on while she's overseeing the cases. And he doesn't say much often, but he, like, sometimes they'll have a little back and forth. Yeah, this show, it's so low stakes, unlike Dateline, like people aren't being murdered. That's true. Now, occasionally there will get a very hefty case.

And I think what separates Millian from someone like Judge Judy is that she's a very, like, empathetic judge. Not always. Yes, I think that's right. Right? But, like, she will sometimes go on a spiel about, you know, someone like a mother and daughter who are beefing about money and be like, you need to repair this relationship, like really, really, like, heavy stuff.

But then she has her catchphrases. Linda, I know you know some of these catchphrases, her max. Absolutely. I'm itching over here and you're scratching me over there. Yes, yes, yes. Which is what she says, if I ask you a question and you tell me something else, that's not an answer to the question that I asked you. And she says some of these in Spanish. Yes. And she has one where she says, if you order the chocolate, you have to pay for the chocolate. That's another good one. Yes, the cheap comes out expensive. The cheap comes out expensive. Sometimes, though, the baratos are like car. The cheap comes out expensive.

Yeah, she does. She has her little sayings, all of which I think are accurate. Yes, yes, yes. And I have a little sayings. And I have a little bit. And I have a lot of it. And I have a theory. Just like Glenn had a theory about Giac's musicals. I have a theory about people's court and, you know, daytime television more broadly, which is that I don't think without daytime TV, we would have social media and influencers that we do today. Because what is it about this show that makes me want to have on, even if it's just in the background, even if I'm not paying fully attention, why am I watching people debate about used car sales? Putting a phone line in the man you've been dating for a month, like putting a phone line in your name for him because he has bad credit.

Dog bites, ballings, injuries, landlord, tenant disputes. Never put anybody on your phone plan. That is the main thing I've taken away from watching people's court for many years. Never put anyone on your phone plan. And honestly, despite the fact that everything that you're saying about the low stakes is true, the one way in which I would defend the people's court as actually quite interesting. And I used to feel the same way about Judge Judy, but she's very mean and I don't watch her anymore. She's so many.

But these shows are one of the only places that you can watch American television that talks about how the economy works for people who don't have very much money. Yes. Things like paying for things under the table, paying cash to people for things and then not being able to sort of prove what happened. Take the nearest roll of toilet paper in a crayon. If you don't have a receipt, that's what you do. That's right. Get a receipt. Anytime you have anybody money.

Grab the nearest roll of toilet paper in a crayon and write. and write down a receipt. It's not I couldn't get a receipt. This guy, could you believe him? You don't let go of money without a receipt. But again, putting people on your phone plan, letting somebody register a car in your name because blah, blah, blah, whatever, paying for something for somebody's kid because they don't have the money and then not being able to get the money. I mean, it is one of the few places I feel like you can turn on the TV and like, yes, this is how money is for a lot of people who don't have very much money. Right.

And these are some of the reasons why being poor is expensive is that it causes you to have to find all these workarounds to try to make your daily life possible. Exactly. And I do believe that there is some value to seeing how that plays out for people. I think that's such a great point. And I will say watching old episodes, I watch the show, even though it's not on anymore, they do upload new cases every day or, or almost every day on YouTube on the official show channel. So watching some of these cases that go back 10, 15 years, not all of it has aged necessarily well.

Melian has her biases. You pick up on them if you've watched this enough. And sometimes she doesn't like pit bulls. Or at least she doesn't like pit bull owners because they tend to be the ones who show up in her court. But also there's a lot of people who are on Section 8. And so it's tricky. And you see it in the same way as like on, you know, Judge Judy or even Judge Mathis,

there can be some bias there or like not an understanding of like why people might choose if they're trying to buy a used car not to have a mechanic check it out first because then that's more money out of like it makes me more empathetic and more sympathetic to understanding what it means to not have a lot of money. And I agree that this is just the better version of that than some of those other shows. She's way less hostile. Yes. Toward people, for example, who have received some sort of public assistance. Absolutely. than Judge Judy, who I often feel acts like everybody who is receiving any kind of benefits is a scammer of some sort. And, like, tells people go collect cans.

And it's like that is not a solution. But you don't get quite that level of that from Millian, which is one of the reasons I like her. Two other quick things about People's Court. One, in the 80s, this show was Price's Right Methadone. I often found myself sick because I wanted to do. stay home and watch game shows. And this show for me at that time in my life was much better than soap operas. The other thing about this show, particularly in the Wapner era, is this show was a rich vein of sitcom plots. Oh, yes, it was. Judge Mathis has definitely been on at least

one or two black sitcoms at some point. So, like, yes, there's definitely, again, this is basic. We're talking about pumpkin size the last days. Absolutely. And as our show writer, Jessica Rini told me when I was just trying to figure out what to do. She was like, I consider this basic because I hope she doesn't mind me. I consider this basic because if it's playing in the background at like the dentist office or totally. Your mechanic. Or the mechanic. Like that's basic.

And I'm like, you know what? I'm basic. It's okay. I hear you. I hear you. So that is the people's court, which Aisha watches on the official YouTube channel, which now I know about. All right. Go ham, Linda. Go ham.

I will. I will. That brings us to the end of our show. Aisha Harris, Stephen Thompson, Glenn Weldon. Thank you so much for being here. We are all basic together. Thank you. Thank you. I'm right.

This episode was produced by Lenin Sherburn, Liz Metzger, and Mike Katzif, and edited by our showrunner, Jessica Reedy. Hello, come in, provides our theme music. Thank you for listening to Pop Culture Happy Hour from NPR. Since you're here, and since we're glad you're here, if you're not already following the show, why not do that right now? I'm Linda Holmes, and we will see you all next time.