Power Lunch - Chevron-Hess Deal at Risk & Speaking of Money 2/27/24

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

Coming up, a battle between Exxon and Chevron over an oil project off the coast of South America. It could derail Chevron's $53 billion buyout of Hess. And there's one complicating factor: Venezuela's government. We'll explain. Plus, religion, politics, and even sex.  All topics many people would rather talk about than talk about money. Why is it so hard to discuss our personal finances? We'll dig into that. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Power Lunch, everybody, alongside Courtney Reagan. I'm Tyler Mathis. I'm glad you could join us coming up a battle between Exxon and Chevron over an oil project off the coast of South America. Could derail Chevron's $53 billion buyout of Hess. And one complicating factor, Venezuela's government will explain that. Plus, religion, politics, even sex, all topics many people would rather talk about and talk about money. Why is it so hard to discuss personal finances? We'll dig into that.

But first, it gets you a check on the markets here at just about 2 o'clock. On the East Coast, we have the major averages mixed, but just ever so slightly so. The NASDAQ composite is the leader, higher by almost two-tenths of a percent. S&P 500, we'll call that about flatten the Dow Jones Industrials down by about three tenths of a percent. The big action, not in stocks, but in crypto. Bitcoin gaining. Look at this. Crossing over that 57,000 mark. Wow, look at that run.

Six months up 118 percent. So it's crossing that $57,000 mark for the first time in nearly two and a half years. And Bitcoin has doubled, Tyler, in just the past six months. I'm still trying to understand it. I think I'm there. Astounding. Look at that. Doubling in six months. Viking Therapeutics nearly doubled today.

The company says its obesity treatment had positive results in a phase two trial. We'll have more on this and Big Pharma coming up later in the program. Let's start, however, with David Faber at the New York Stock Exchange. With the latest on that Exxon Chevron South America saga, Interesting story here, David. Yeah, you know, Tyler, unexpected in a sense. It was probably almost 24 hours ago exactly when we first learned of a potential dispute that could, unlikely to, but could derail Chevron's $53 billion all-stock deal to acquire Hess. What we learned in the forum of a merger proxy and a 10K that came from Chevron yesterday was that they're in discussions with Exxon about the terms of a right of first,

refusal on what is the jointly owned huge oil operations off the coast of Guyana. It's called Starbroke, the Starbrook essentially project. Exxon owns roughly 45 percent. Hess owns 30 percent. It does represent by far most of the value at Hess, given this project could be producing as much as a million barrels of oil a day within a couple of years. I actually spend some time there for my documentary a couple of years ago on Exxon and so was able to visit the operation. You can see me there in an helicopter. Yeah, we'll show some of the great video, of course, on the platform as well. It's an enormous operation. It's incredibly important to Hess and therefore it's incredibly important to Chevron. What seems to be an issue

is the interpretation of this said right of first refusal. To try to sort of narrow it down, basically Exxon believes that because there's a change in control, or at least they perceive a change of control happening at Hess, namely Chevron buying it, that represents a change of control under their agreement because Guyana represents most of the value of Hess. Hence, they would have the right of first refusal to buy the 30% that Hess currently owns of that joint operating venture. The joint operating agreement is in place here. That was put in place in 2008. That was worked on by Exxon's lawyers. Actually, with its then partner Shell, Shell sold its stake back to Exxon, which then sold it to Hess. Exxon, for its part, says, hey, we got lawyers in the building who worked on this. Our interpretation is the correct one. And as you might imagine, Chevron's lawyers will say something very, very different. In fact, they basically say the language is not that at all in terms of a purchase of Hess triggering this right of first refusal. I would also go to a note out from Bob Willens.

the noted tax expert has been around for many years. He pointed to the structure of the actual merger itself as another reason why Chevron very might be right and saying, no, it doesn't apply here. It's a reverse triangular merger. All right, don't get too lost there. But what essentially that means is the structure of the merger in the language may not be in effect here

because Chevron will create a subsidiary. It will be merged and into Hess, but Hess will be the surviving corporation in that merger. and therefore as a result of the merger, a wholly owned subsidiary of Chevron, meaning Hess doesn't go away so you can argue it's not a change of control, so to speak, and therefore it won't change the ownership and control of the joint venture, and therefore no right of first refusal should be activated. We'll see where this ends up, Tyler.

You know, they're in discussions. It's unclear exactly what Exxon wants here, because the fact is that even if they were to go to arbitration, and an arbitrator would say, yeah, we're to say, we do agree with you Exxon, well, then Chevron would just say, forget it, we're not buying Hess. And so Exxon still would not be in a position to actually purchase this 30% of their joint venture that is controlled by Hess. We should mention as well. Seenuk, the Chinese oil company, controls the remainder of that usually profitable now venture.

But of course, it wasn't way back when they first started. A couple of questions, David. Obviously, am I understanding correctly that Exxon is effectively, an operating partner in this joint venture? That's correct. They actually operate some of the things we saw on the screen there, the actual getting out of the oil. They have been operating that for some time. Hesse is a partner. They've invested, I mean, I think as much as $6 billion over time, but they don't operate it. So why would it take Exxon so long? This deal was announced, what, last fall, as I remember, why would it take Exxon so long to assert the potential or the

possibility of a right of first refusal on that stake? Well, it's unclear when they really did, Tyler. We're first learning about it as a result of the filings yesterday. There was, when you now know, mention of it made previously, but it was confidentially made, so to speak, sort of as a closing condition of the agreement that was not actually disclosed. And in fact, we still don't know a lot, including the language of the actual contract or the joint operating agreement by which Exxon and Chevron seem to be disagreeing right now. That's also confidential, so we can't weigh in or have a lot of other lawyers who are unaffiliated weigh in and say,

yeah, Chevron's got it right or yeah, Exxon's got it right. Has Exxon exerted or exerted its right of first refusal or merely suggested that there may be a right of first refusal? If they've exerted it or expressed it and said, we're going to do that, then that would suggest wouldn't it that they intend to buy the Hess stake in this project? Yeah, it's very much unclear whether they'd be able to act. They do say they have the right, but they have not said that they're going to exercising it. I got it. And in fact, it's an interesting question because I have tried to understand, well, what are you guys talking about?

Because they both refer to conversations and discussions. And I'm not getting a lot there, frankly, in terms of, well, are you just talking about whether, you know, who has to. the real right here or not? Or is it an ask of some kind that's already come from Exxon? I just don't know. David, by the way, you were great in the movie, Dumb Money. You were great. You know, I spend a lot of time getting into character. And I can tell, method acting. Yeah. Yes, exactly. You lived the part. I love it. Thanks, my friend. David Favor. Okay. All right, it's been a rough week for solar stocks, Sun Run, Sanova, losing 26 and 36% of their value. In just the past five trading sessions, and one Wall Street firm is,

cutting its ratings on both of those names. And Pipa Stevens has the story. Hi, Pip. There's such big declines. You do have to wonder, did the analysts maybe miss the mark with this downgrade when a stock is down 30% in a week? But basically, Janney downgraded both Sunrod and Sinova, saying that the demand forecasts are too optimistic, especially when it comes to the back half of the year. They don't see this big rebound. Another factor that's been cited is that these companies are going to benefit from lower hardware prices. And Johnny said that those tailwinds are over-exaggerated and are going to be more.

subdued going forward. So basically just saying that they don't see this market turning around anytime soon. And we did also get some news out of Sunpower. So the company said today that its CEO Peter Ferrisi has left. That was effective last night. Of course, this company has been very embattled of the major three publicly traded solar companies. Sunpower struggled the most thanks to its concentration in California, as well as its traditional loan heavy offering. And so the company brought back the former CEO Tom Warner last week as executive chair. chairman, and he's now going to oversee this committee as they look for a new CEO. And then finally, one more mover in this space, Eichon. We don't talk about it all that much,

but it is hitting a more than two-year high today, up 20% in the last two sessions. So they make smart meters, water meters, electricity, demand meters for utilities. They're a big beneficiary of this surge in power demand, especially when it comes to data centers. They released earnings yesterday, and they got two upgrades today from both Baird and Candacord. Some optimism around that stock. You see it there. Yeah. When you look forward into solar power, say three, five years from now, what's the general consensus for where we're going to be with the adoption of that? I think the consensus is that it's going to continue growing, and that hasn't changed,

but the rate of growth is what's come down. We've seen this, you know, with electric vehicles as well. After these huge surges, company executives, Wall Street investors, they all expect that growth profile to remain for the years to come. But in reality, if you're growing many-fold, if you're, you know, growing 300% over a couple years, that rate of growth is not sustainable. Sure. So I think the longer-term demand profile hasn't necessarily changed, but the forecast for the rate of change and the speed of that adoption has maybe come down a little bit.

Fair enough. Thank you very much, Piva. Well, shares of Macy's and Lowe's both higher today, Macy's holiday quarter results coming in mixed, so as it's full year guidance. Under new CEO, Tony, Spring, 150 Macy's stores will close over the next three years, though it plans to add 30 small format Macy's locations, open 45 Bloomingdale's and Blue Mercury stores combined there. I spoke with Tony Spring, who said, quote, we are closing underproductive stores that represent a quarter of our gross square footage, but less than 10% of our sales. This is a story about real estate and geography and making sure you're in the best centers with your best game. Now, Spring says he's looking at Macy's total business, emphasizing what's working.

Bloomingdale has had several years of record sales and profit and blue mercury. has posted 12 straight quarters of growing comparable sales. Now, the retailer is adding more employees to some areas of the Macy's stores that it's investing in, using AI to improve inventory and elevating and evaluating merchandise, so there's variety without redundancy. Meantime, Lowe's beat expectations for sales and earnings with its results today, though it's forecast for full-year sales, they do believe those were fall. And sales to Lowe's, do-it-yourself customers, those fell.

Sales to contractors essentially flat in the quarter. CEO Marvin Ellison told me on the phone. It's DIY shoppers are looking for value. Black Friday and Cyber Monday hit records for Lowe's. But customers are also buying just single appliances, say, rather, Tyler, than a whole suite of appliances. They're not doing the whole kitchen there. They're not, yeah, or even, you know, just a dishwasher as opposed to buying a new dishwasher and a stove and, you know, everything all together there. Go with the coffee maker.

You'll get a lot. But still, Lowe share is actually higher and hitting 52-week highs even on a report that was not super-stellar. Loz. That's right. Fantastic. All right, coming up, the technical take on some of Warren Buffett's biggest holdings. We'll get you a little technical support ahead. Plus, we continue our dive into the economic ecosystem of health care.

Today, we look at pharmaceutical heavyweights. Power lunch will be right back. We've got a news alert on Apple. That company reportedly winding down its decade-long effort to build an electric car. This is according to Bloomberg. Employees on some car teams will reportedly be moved over to Apple's artificial intelligence unit. and focus on generative AI projects. Apple has declined to comment on 2CNBC on the report. The stock roughly flat, as you see there, 181.74 right now, up a third of a percent,

pairing most of the day's losses on that news. So take a look, Courtney, at the next one. Yeah, so let's look at the market cap of NVIDIA, right? It is now the third biggest public company. It's nearing $2 trillion, and it's made a lot of money for a lot of investors during its run. But our next guest thinks the real opportunity now is outside of that handful of big tech stock. So let's bring in Rich Bernstein. He's chief investment officer of Richard Bernstein advisors. We spend so much time talking about NVIDIA and the rest of the Magnificent Seven because, frankly, they've just put up returns that are hard to ignore rich. But do you think that run is over?

We talk also so often to our guests about the broadening out, our riches sort of spreading out to others. Do you believe that's really true? I think that's the opportunity is the broadening of the market. I think that's what people should be looking for. Look, how much do people not know about the Magnificent Seven or the Fantastic Four, whatever it is? Everybody knows every little detail. They're overcovered by the street. It's impossible to find something that people don't know.

The opportunities are elsewhere in every other market, in every other part of the world, in small caps in the United States, everything. It's like the whole world is underfollow. relative to the Magnificent 7. Where else in the world, then, would you be looking? Because you're right, we don't spend a whole lot of time talking about the rest of the world. We're often looking for opportunities right here in the United States. And as aforementioned, of course, the Magnificent 7.

So give us some ideas. Right. Well, you know, the story applies to small caps in the United States as well. I mean, if you look at coverage in small caps, it's woeful. I mean, there's very little attention paid to small caps, which is typically true, except when you have big small cap bowl markets. Outside the United States, you know, whether you're looking at a place like Japan, whether you're looking at emerging markets, whether you're looking at commodity sectors around the world, there's really a ton of opportunities that people just refuse to look at. And I think, you know, there's no sound wealth building strategy that says put all your eggs in seven stocks.

There has to be some opportunities outside the United States and in smaller cap stocks. And that's really what we're trying to find as opposed to joining the crowd in the seven stocks. Does this stock investing environment remind you of any prior era or historical analog in investing? I'm thinking back to the dot-com boom with JDS Unifase and CMGI and so on and so forth. Now, a lot of those companies didn't have, didn't make money. A company like Nvidia makes a lot of money. But are there any analogs that you can think of? And what lessons would you derive from them for today?

Right. So, Tyler, I think there's a misconception that the stocks in the tech bubble didn't make money. There were a lot of large-cap tech companies that made money and subsequently underperform dramatically. Well, Dell did, and Cisco did. Oh, yeah, and IBM and Intel and Cisco. I mean, Microsoft was one of them. But even among those companies that were making money, had strong balance sheets, were cash flow positive, all of the above,

the best of them, it took you six years, five to six years to break even if you had bought at the peak of the tech bubble in March of 2000. The worst, it took you about 20 years in the worst case. It was almost, you know, like Cisco was like the Japan of stocks. It took so long to come back and break even. So I think the notion today that we're looking at real companies with real earnings is ignoring the concentration risk and everything else that's there. As I said, there have to be more than seven growth stories in the entire global equity market. It's just such an amazingly bearish view of the world to say there's only seven companies we can invest in. When you're thinking about other opportunities at the top of the show, we talked a bit about Bitcoin, the run that it's had above 57,000 and sort of it's doubling.

We obviously now have Bitcoin ETFs. If you're an investor that might want to look at this and say, hey, I don't want to miss the next run up, what would you, what would you, what would you, advise? Should we look at an ETF rather than Bitcoin itself? Or is this game just still a little bit too dangerous to play? Well, I'm sort of notorious as being anti-Bitcoin and anti-cryptocurrencies. I think the crypto crowd probably has dartboards with my picture on, and I'm sure. But I think we tweeted today a very interesting chart. And the chart shows you financial conditions and the easing of financial conditions and the performance of both Bitcoin and NVIDIA. Now, I have to say, we own some of the stocks that we've been talking about in some of our portfolios. Just want

to be full disclosure here. But the number one factor that is affecting both Bitcoin and Nvidia is financial conditions. It's liquidity. And that's one of the signs of a highly speculative market, that it's not fundamentals. It's liquidity that's driving all of this. And the relationship is remarkable. How do you prove that? How do you show the different, that it's liquidity and not fundamentals that is causing invidia to go up. Good question. What we did was we showed the financial conditions index, and we showed that when financial conditions were easing, you'll find speculation takes hold more often. And so what you see is, as financial conditions ease, you find both Bitcoin price goes up

and invidious price goes up. It's basically the same thing we're looking at. But last year, when NVIDIA, what, tripled, I don't know what it did. I mean, it's done very well since October, which was really the peak in interest rates. Last year, financial conditions weren't really in an easing mode, were they? Well, now you're going to put my picture on all the NVIDIA fans, darkboards too now. Thank you. Thank you, Tyler. But, no, I think, look, the way to think about this is that we're having a cyclical upturn in earnings in the overall economy right now.

And you have certain stocks that are highly cyclical, that are all of a sudden consider growth stocks that are reaping the benefits of that huge cyclical upturn. The way to think about this is, I think, if I'm not mistaken, there are about 150 companies in the S&P 500 that are right now growing earnings 25% or more. I'm going to guess not one person watching us knew that. And that's the point. What's so unique about the Magnificent Seven when you have 150 companies growing earnings 25% or more? That's what bubbles feel like, is people ignore the broad fundamentals and concentrate in a small area, a sector. In this case, it's seven stocks. Yeah, it's seven stocks.

And you say, what did you say? 150 companies are going? About 150. About 150. So that leaves you 143 others that are growing at very nice paces to choose from. And that's just in the United States. That's just the United States. Fascinating conversation.

Always good to see you, Rich. Yeah. Thanks, guys. Thanks very much. Stay away from Dartport. All right. Further ahead, further ahead. money talks, people don't.

Finances were always a bit of a taboo talking point for many, and a new study shows that it still is. Those details when Power Lunch return. Welcome back to Power Lunch, everybody. A weak durable goods report out this morning has some people doubting how strong the U.S. economy is right now. Let's get to Rick

Santelli for a look at how this is playing out today in the bond market. Hey, Rick. Yes, it really was weak. I was there at 8.30 Eastern, we were bringing out the numbers down 6.1% on our preliminary January durable goods look. But yet there's a lot of asterisks that go along with this. When you stripped out transportation, especially the aircraft component, it became down three-tenths of percent, which isn't good and it was less than expected, but it shows you where the dynamic was. And it wasn't only that consumer confidence

was all three components on conference board were the weakest since November last year. So let's start out with that two-year note. Okay, if you look at a two-year note, when that 830 Eastern data came out that Tyler was just referencing how weak it was. When do you think the low yield was on two-year note yields? Yes, exactly at the time that 8.30 Eastern data was coming out. Now, we also had other events today. At 1 o'clock Eastern, we had the last tranche of 169 billion in supply in the form of 42 billion seven-year notes. The smallest auction wasn't really upsized very much. It was 20 billion less than the biggest auction, where the other two were the biggest, and it went very well. And if you look at that,

chart you can clearly see at 1 o'clock Eastern rates drop because it was a pretty good auction but they came back because the dynamics today are for higher rates now dollar index see this chart it's not on a glide path going down in a bad way it's not like a ski slope but it is going down we're on pace for our sixth consecutive lower close in the dollar index and this is coming at a time where the interest rate complex really isn't giving good reasons for the dollar to go lower so we want to pay very attention. Tyler, back to you. All right, Rick, thank you very much. Let's go to Bertha Coombs now for a CNBC news update. Bertha? Hey, Tyler. Former President Donald Trump is trying to block adult film star Stormy Daniels and his former lawyer Michael Cohen from testifying in his upcoming

criminal trial in Manhattan. The trial centers on alleged hush money Trump paid to Daniels before the 2016 election. Trump's attorneys claim Cohen would lie on the same. stand and that Daniels would use the trial to promote herself. Neither have commented on that motion. The Environmental Protection Agency announced $1 billion to clean up 25 Superfund Hazardous Waste Sites today. It will stretch from Oregon to New Jersey, which has more Superfund sites than any other state.

The funding is the third and final wave of $3.5 billion set aside to address hazardous waste sites in the 20. 2021 infrastructure bill. And people in Chicago will be feeling a weather whiplash over the next 24 hours. The city is currently experiencing summer-like temperatures nearing 70 degrees. But that all changes later today with severe snowstorms or severe storms possible this evening. And then a powerful cold front moving into the area overnight, making it feel more like winter again. It's always that early tease of spring.

we get hit once again. Absolutely. My in-laws are two hours from Chicago. They said it's 74 degrees today. We're getting our yard work done. Hopefully they're not planning too much, though, if it's going to get cold all over again. Thanks so much, Bertha. Well, as we had to break, a quick power check on positive side. Norwegian cruise lines higher after announcing there were redeploying shifts due to higher demand on the negative side. Dental, medical supply firm and reshine, lower on weaker than expected results caused in part by cost of a 2023 cyber attack. Welcome back to Power Lunch. A huge mover in the pharma space today would be Viking Therapeutics. Shares of Eli Lilly competitor Viking up 115% today. Yes, you heard me right.

After its experimental weight loss drug showed promising initial results in a mid-stage trial. And for our next installment of our healthcare ecosystem series, we focus on pharma, including names like Eli Lilly, Merck, Abbey, and others. Evan Seagerman is a biotech analyst at BMO. Evan, welcome. Good to have you with us. Is 2024 the year to the extent that 2023 wasn't of the fat drugs? Yes, I believe 2024 continues the theme of obesity as a major theme in the pharmaceutical space.

Clearly, the data from Viking today, very encouraging. It is phase two data, and they are a few years out from phase three data. So not a direct competitor to say Lillian Novo right now, but definitely something that we're watching. and a stock up 100 plus percent clearly could be a takeout by any of the big names in the pharmaceutical space, not an obesity at the moment. Land of the Free Home of the Fat. Let's talk about Lily a little bit. Lily is, does it still have the pole position here even against Novo Nordisk and their entrance,

not necessarily in the obesity area per se, but a lot of those drugs, I forget what class of drugs they are, are used as obesity drugs. So, yes, you know, I think at this point it's still a duopoly. are very bullish on Lilly, and we think that both can exist in this market. The key here is the data that they have, but also the manufacturing and the supply that they're able to bring to the market. Remember, they've invested billions upon billions. Novo just bought some facilities from Catalan, for example. Lily's been investing heavily in North Carolina. So that's their differentiator. You know, at this point, every vial that's made is going to be used by patients in the market.

Evan, you know, yesterday we had a discussion as well on health care as we're looking at this all week. the analyst that we had on was talking about the PBMs and how they may be beneficiaries. What is your view on that space? So PBMs are interesting. You know, I highlight one of the themes for this year is kind of pharma out of the crosshairs, right? They have the IRA last year. We've seen that play out. But it's really PBM reform.

I know that some legislation didn't pass, but it's pretty clear that there's going to be a more scrutiny around the PBMs and kind of where the rebates and discounts are going. I think this is generally good for the pharma space. because it allows for more transparency and pricing, right? The list price that you see is not what these companies are making. And I think more transparency in this market is great. And maybe will help kind of give pharma tailwind and maybe improve its image a little bit. As we go back to some of your picks and you're looking at work, what do you like there?

That's not necessarily a GL1 play there, right? Not everything can be a GLP one play. I like Merck because they're doing a really good job of diversify. their business away from Katrina. This is going to be the second large, this is going to be the largest LOE in history come later in the decade. We remember right now we're going through Abbe's Humaira going off patent. This happens at later in the decade, and they're doing an excellent job of building up a comprehensive portfolio that allows them to potentially grow through that later in the decade, and that's what's key for investors. You like Abbe as well, Humira. I hear a lot of advertising

behind Sky Rizzi and Ringvoke, two brand names that, I, I, assume are doing very well for that company. They are indeed. On their earnings call late last month, they increased their kind of near-term peak sales to about $27 billion, really showing bullishness on those two assets, allowing them to move through the Humaira LOWE, right? They're still maintaining volume, but pricing is, you know, really going down. And that is the next leg of growth for their immunology business. Beyond that, they've just did two deals last year, one in the ADC space, one in the psych space, really setting up for the next decade of growth for Abdi. All right, Evan, thank you so much for taking us through those companies and the industry more

broadly. Evan Seagerman of Beamho. Thank you. Well, GLP drugs like OZempic are disrupting the weight loss industry worldwide, but the next major market may be for the one for children. Yet for many families interested in seeking out these new medicines, there's a very real barrier to entry, and that would be the cost. CNBC's Melissa Lee takes a closer look at this burden in our new documentary Big Shot, the OZMPIC Revolution. For Natalie's family who are wary of bariatric surgery, GLP-1 drugs are a glimmer of hope. I prescribe it today for you because I think you do really well with it,

especially since you're so responsible. But now there's another roadblock, the cost. Medicaid covering it yet. Currently, North Carolina Medicaid is not covering it. How much does it cost per month for a patient? It's anywhere between $1,400 and $1,400 per month. of a medication that you might need to be on for the rest of your life. $1,000 a month, $15,000 a month, I can't afford that.

That's placing this medicine out of the hands of nearly every person that walks through our door. Watch the big shot, the Ozempic Revolution. It premieres Thursday at 10 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNBC. I can't wait to see that. It's going to be fascinating. We'll still ahead. Speaking of money, a new Wells Fargo study found the talk about personal is harder than talking about religion, politics, or death, and almost as hard to talk about as sex. Our own Sharon Apperson will give us the details when Power Lunch returns. On this network, we talk a lot about money, but it's usually other people's money.

According to a new survey by Wells Fargo, people find talking about their own personal finances more difficult than talking about religion or politics and almost as hard as talking about sex. Talking about money is what CNBC's personal finance senior correspondent Sharon Epperson does best and perfectly. Sharon. Thank you, Tyler. Well, Wells Fargo did an in-depth survey asking people how they feel about money. They surveyed just over 3,000 adults, about 1,800 women and 1,600 men. 60% of respondents said sex is difficult to talk about compared to the 57% who ranked personal finances as a tough topic. Death, politics, and religion were less highly cited. Half of women are reluctant to talk about money because they say they consider it a private topic compared to 41% of men.

Women are also more likely to say they don't want to talk about money because they feel they may be judged. And age made a big difference too. More than half of younger women tended to say feeling judged made them avoid talking about money versus 35% of women overall. Now, more than half of Americans report having a love-hate relationship with money, with 57% agreeing that they could use a mental risk. reset in thinking about money and women even more so. For more on women and wealth, join me for a CNBC special event. A week from today, Tuesday, March 5th at 1 p.m. Eastern, will bring together top financial experts

with advice to set yourself up for success in this free virtual event. And you can scan the QR code right there to register or go to cnbcvents.com slash women and wealth. I'll tell you a story about when I worked at Money Magazine years ago, we did a survey like this. And we asked, what do you talk about more, sex or money? And I think it was, it may have been money by a little bit. But then when you asked the follow-up question, which was which do you enjoy more, sex or money, let me just tell you that the difference between men and women was very distinct. Men enjoyed sex by a lot more and women enjoyed money a lot more than they enjoyed sex.

So I don't know what that says about men, probably a lot. But at any rate, it's an interesting topic. Money is kind of a taboo topic in many households. It's a taboo topic in many households. And when women are more demanding or more direct about what they want, advocating for themselves, they're seen as being too aggressive, too demanding. And so that makes some women less willing to talk about money. I think, Courtney, you're looking at me like, who?

Because that's not us. I know. I talk about money with each other all the time. About our personal money. It's important to have that conversation. But I think, you know, we need to start dispelling the myth, right? And the conversations that we have as friends and colleagues, we need to have with other friends and make it like we talk about so many things. Yeah.

We should make money a top priority. Absolutely. Absolutely. And financial literacy, I know you're a big advocate for and so am I. And I think it's just so important for this not to be a scary topic for us to be able to approach it even with young children. You know, as something they need to embrace. I mean, I've been talking to my kids about money and what we can afford and can't since they were. Babies.

I think it's really important. I mean, I don't think a lot of kids even have the basic concepts of how to budget. They don't. But my mom taught me. Yeah, we learned a lot about that. And we're setting off when we're shopping. Thank you both for not asking me which do I enjoy more.

Okay, thank you. Ladies. You're welcome. Well, still ahead. We'll get some technical support. Our chartists will tell us which one of Warren Buffett's top holdings is boys to pop when Power Lunch returns. According to Just Capital, only 11% of Russell 1,000,

Disclose 2024 race and ethnicity diversity targets for their management teams. But that's up 9% compared to 2023. Celebrating Black Heritage, I'm Sharon Epperson. Welcome back to Power Lunch. Time now for some technical support. Berkshire Hathaway reporting fourth quarter results that increased 28% year over year. And today, we're taking a look at the technicals of three of Warren Buffett's top holdings as of December 31st. At least Apple is his top holding.

but what about the rest? Well, our chartist today is Jessica Inskept. She is director of product at Options Play. So first up, Bank of America at 9.5% above its portfolio. This is his second largest holding. So, Jess, what do the charts say about this one? Absolutely. Well, Bank of America now is forming a base.

So when we are depicting a downwards trend, we look at a series of lower highs and lower lows, which is what was happening here. But we can also look at the 200 weekly moving average. It's a smoother line. That's this line here. Yep. Because it involves a lot of prices.

We overcame this. So this is acting as an area of support. And now our next stop is actually overcoming this 36 level. Because if we want to be outside of a downward trend, we have to break those lower highs. So as soon as we make a higher high, we've done that here. So that's why we say it's forming at base. But now we just need it to overcome 36. But that's solid.

That's a base. But what happens is when we're in this period where we're going out of a downwards trend and want to move into the upwards trend, we have to overcome the previous tips, if you will, of that trend, and that's where we are. And so you believe we can do that? I believe we can do that. But what happens, according to the doubt there,

you get an area of consolidations. It's psychological. That's this really strong level. There's a lot of price points there. That means if you held it throughout this downturn, you might end up here and say, okay, I'm at break-even. Let me get out of it.

So the question is, in areas of resistance are really just an area of supply. It's will buyers come in? Will it be more demand than there is? supply, and that's the test that we have at 36. But so far, this is a base, and that's great. That's good to see. All right. Well, next up, we have American Express. This is above its third largest holding. Whether it's hard to tell you about this one, American Express. So American Express, we're looking at the 13 weekly moving average. And if we've looked at my charts before,

13 represents one quarter worth of prices. And so because we look at the market quarterly, that's earnings, this is trending upwards. That is really good. What I'm looking for for Bank of America, this has done. So we had an area of consolidation that we broke out over. No longer, are there any lower lows or lower highs? Now we're making a series of higher highs, and that's indicative of a bullish momentum. We've got that support right around here, around the 188 level. And now what we look at, now that we're getting into super highs based on the previous trend, we can do something called a Fibonacci extension, which is a fun math equation. I remember this, Fibonacci. Yeah, but it's actually that's where resistance is right now.

So that's around the 218.2 level. But the next one is actually around 235. So there's some upward momentum once we get past now. So 13, a lucky number for American Express, perhaps. We're looking at periods and for Taylor Swift too. And finally, let's look at Coca-Cola. Jessica, one of the charts saying about this one. We know this is a Buffett favorite.

Obviously, a name that he likes to trade or hold on to and drink. Yeah, absolutely. I'm definitely for the dividend for this one because the chart does not look as well. So this is a longer moving average in comparison to the 13. A 40 weekly moving average is three quarters worth of prices. So over the past three quarters, we're kind of flat. We look at the slope of the line in addition to where the stock is above or below, acts of support and resistance. What's good is this is acting as support right here. However, it's trending, it's sloping downwards. And that is not good. So what it looks like is an area

of consolidation. It's stuck being range bound. My resistance is around this 62 level, and we need to see that overcome. Otherwise, it's just going to be like a ball bouncing from ceiling to floor and that resistance. And when you talk about this is the dividend play. I mean, is there anything technical that we should be aware of when you're talking about that piece of it rather than the price itself? Sure. So I mean, dividends are, it's less of that growth-oriented stock, not tech-heavy. So they tend to move a little bit less. See, these are even five, dollar increments in comparison to the charts that we saw before. Meaning this isn't a lot of movement, and this is a large time frame.

This is three years. So it's really the difference of the type of investor. Are you growth or income and something that gives you income but stays at a steady price may not be a bad thing? All right, so we're bullish on Bank of America and American Express, but Coca-Cola, not so much. You've got it. All right, Jessica Inskept, thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you.

All right, folks, we still have some more stories we are watching. Closing time is next. Stay with us. We'll be right back. We only have four minutes left in the show and several more stories that you need to know. So let's get right to it. Bloomberg is reporting that Cheyenne is considering switching its IPO from New York to London as the fast fashion company continues to face resistance to a U.S. listing. The company is still working on its application to list in the U.S.

but would need to file a new overseas listing application with Chinese regulators if it decided to switch to London or even elsewhere. This is a name that's been so highly anticipated to see an IPO. whether the U.S. SEC will let them list here? Yes, there's been a lot of resistance because they're often looked at as a Chinese company, even though they've moved their headquarters to Singapore. They don't actually sell in China, but they do ship from China. And so there's been a lot of sort of political resistance to some of that.

Let's talk about something we were just talking about, and that is 401K account balances. They came back in 2023 to the highest level in nearly two years. According to a recent report from Fidelity, the average balance there ended the year up 14%. in a 401k rising to about 118,600. The number of 401k millionaires also rose more than 10% on the year, and IRA accounts were up, let's see, 12% on average balance this year.

It was a bull market raising all boats, basically. And if you have a 401K, that's pretty good for you. Yeah, I mean, the S&P did, of course, gain 24%, so pretty good. But I was surprised, and I'll take a page from Sharon's book. My 401k account did better than that, actually less. So there. I'm a woman talking about money. Check it out. I have no idea how mine did. We can do it. We can do it, ladies. Well, shares of Kava on the rise after the Mediterranean restaurant chain released its earnings report a day early. The company topped Wall Street's estimates for both earnings and revenue and reported same store sales claim more than 11% in the fourth quarter. So maybe a little bit of a blunder with the accidental early dribs and drabs of the release, but ultimately ended up pretty well for my. I don't know if you've been there, but it's pretty delicious. To Kava. I haven't, but it's the kind of place I would like to go. Yeah, I think it's a fast, but the food is like really quality, really delicious.

Pretty healthy options. I did go there once and I did like it. Yeah, I did. There's one by the stock exchange. Yeah. Though there's one out in Jersey where I live. All right, 500,000 Marriott Boy points could get you a fancy trip to a major global city, or it could earn you a pair of tickets to see Taylor Swift.

The hotel brand now offering a special package that includes a pair of tickets to see Swift, a two-night hotel stay, dinner, a spa treatment, and transportation to and from the concert. this sounds like a good deal. I think we're going to go live with this today. I was going to say, and if it guarantees you access, I mean, I've been a Swifty since she was 15 years old. I think I've seen every tour except for the Aeros Tour because I could not get access to tickets,

despite doing everything I needed to be a verified fan. I think she's going to be all over the world over the next year, I think including Vienna, Toronto, Madrid, Stockholm, all kinds of places. I know. I could maybe take a trip and see Taylor Swift all in one. Sounds amazing. I don't leave time for this story because I just love it so much. doing her part to fix the student loan crisis. Ruth Gonsman donating a billion dollars to the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx,

saying the gift should be used to cover tuition. Her husband was a protege of Warren Buffett's who made an early investment in Berkshire Hathaway. I just think this is phenomenal. I believe if you're a current student, like a senior, they're going to reimburse you for your spring tuition and then going forward. Yeah, I read the story in the newspaper this morning about her. She's an very interesting, obviously, greatly philanthropic person. Her late husband had left this estate to her and said, do what you think is right with it.

And she did. And she sat down with the people at Einstein College of Medicine where she is on the board, and they said, well, you could name a building after yourself or you could do this. And she said, no, no, I want to help people pay their tuition. That sounds like the right. So awesome, you know, to relieve, like, the medical student debt. That's just so amazing.

All righty. And she thought the Einstein name was pretty good, by the way. I guess so, right? You don't want to change it, right? I'd say it works. Let's keep that school name. Thanks for watching, Power Lunch, everybody. Closing bell starts right now.