Power Lunch - Musk-See Interview 5/17/23

Episode Date: May 17, 2023

In this hour, we’ll break down the key parts of Elon Musk’s exclusive interview on CNBC. The Tesla CEO saying there could be a reckoning for U.S. companies doing business in China, and calling work from home a four-letter word we can’t say on TV!And also saying he’ll keep saying whatever he wants on Twitter, even if it costs him money. We’ll break it all down for you. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Welcome to Power Lunch, everybody, alongside Kelly Evans. I'm Tyler Matheson. Welcome for a Wednesday. Coming up, we will break down the key parts of that Musk-C-TV interview on CNBC last night. Tesla CEO Elon Musk saying there could be a reckoning for U.S. companies doing business in China, calling work from home a word we can't say here on TV. And he'll keep saying whatever the heck he wants on Twitter, even, Kelly, if it costs him money. That and more, Tyler. Thank you. Hi, everybody. Before we dive in, let's get a check on markets, which are seeing one of the strongest rallies we've really had all year long. The Dow's up 440 points or 1.3%. And look at the consistency here. Identical percentage gains for the Dow, the S&P and the NASDAQ, the S&P, up to 4163. Let's check on shares of Tesla after not just that interview that Musk gave last night, but the annual meeting,

generating some optimism on a number of fronts for investors, including the cyber truck, full self-driving, maybe Musk spending a little more time on Tesla, less of it on Twitter. And the Tesla shares are up 4.5% today. Also want to show you the regional banks rally. across the board pretty much. Western Alliance saying its deposits have grown so far this quarter. That stock is up 30% in a week, 12% today, 17% pop for Pac-West, still about a $5 stock. Zions Comerica, Tyler, also up about 10%. Thank you, Kelly. We begin with David Faber's exclusive interview with Tesla CEO Elon Musk. The conversation stretching across many, many topics, AI, self-driving, Twitter, but also China,

and namely the complexity of doing business in that region, given the rising tensions, between the West and China. Tensions that really circle around mostly Taiwan, which Musk says can create a very difficult situation for companies doing business both in Taiwan and on mainland China. Let's listen. The official policy of China is that Taiwan should be integrated.

One does not need to read between the lines. One can simply read the lines. Do you think that... So I think there's a certain... There's some inevitability to the situation. That would not be good for Tesla conceivably or for any, any company in the world, frankly. Yes, for any company in the world. I think almost no one realizes that the Chinese economy and the rest of the global economy are like conjoint twins.

It would be like trying to separate conjoint twins. That's the severity of the situation. And it's actually worse for a lot of other companies than it is for Tesla. I mean, I'm not sure where you're going to get an iPhone, for example. Well, let's bring in a pair of China experts to discuss Mr. Musk's comments. David Sachs is a research fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations and John Rutledge, his chief investment strategist at Saffanod and a CNBC contributor. John, let me begin with you.

Does Mr. Musk speak the way he does about China, China and Taiwan? because he must? Well, I think the most important part about Elon's interview was how slow he spoke and how carefully he chose his words. He's in a position where he can be seriously punished by Xi Jinping, and Xi Jinping does take revenge on people. The twins example Elon gave is not the right one. The right one is if Taiwan were taken out, we would be like severing our brain because the Western, the world economy won't work without TSM and the chips that come out of Taiwan today. David Sacks, why don't you react to that? And do you, there seem to be in what I heard from Musk, a kind of sense of inevitability

of the coming reunification whenever it comes of China and Taiwan and the consequences that that could bring? He was right that China's policy is to achieve unification with Taiwan by force if necessary. That has long been China's policy since the founding of the People's Republic of China in 1949. But I think he has it wrong that this is an inevitability and nothing can be done to prevent this outcome. We certainly have a vote in this and the United States can do a lot more to alter Xi Jinping's cost benefit calculus. I think she is a rational actor. I think that he looks at Mr. Putin's struggles in Ukraine and doesn't want to repeat those mistakes. And if the United States can prove to Xi Jinping that an attack on Taiwan or a blockade would be a fool's errand, then I think he would think twice about it.

David, what should Apple do? Well, Apple's in a very tough position. The most advanced chip that they need for their products is made not only in one place, which is Taiwan. it's made in actually one building on TSM's sprawling campus. Intel and others don't have the ability to manufacture chips that are that advanced. The United States is taking some steps to try to lessen that vulnerability, I would say, with TSM opening a factory in Arizona, the Chips Act, and things like that, but we would be fooling ourselves if we think that we can become self-sufficient in chips.

So I think this is a major vulnerability from Apple. They are trying to shift some production out of China to places like India. But regarding the actual reliance on TSM for chips, I don't see that going away anytime soon. John, Mr. Xi Jinping is an autocrat, and you have a risk whenever you're dealing with an autocrat. Autocrats can be erratic, where consensus government tends to sort of coalesce around a median kind of performance. is our best course here just to wait out Xi Jinping and hope that he leaves the scene one way or another? Well, it is, it is, Tyler. You know, the problem with autocrats is that we don't have the advantage of the law of large numbers or the central limit theorem.

That is, one guy wakes up in the morning with a headache and he can make problems for all of us. Now, the PRC and I are both the same age. I think that Taiwan will still be here when I'm gone. And China has wanted to absorb Taiwan for the last 74 years and will continue to do so. The danger is that it's not now the people's government of the consensus of 100 people across the street from the Great Hall of the People. This is Xi Jinping, and he wants to get this done during his lifetime. So if he becomes impatient, he could make a real problem. I think that I think David's right that the troubles in Ukraine at the moment should give him pause,

especially of the last week shooting down the mighty supersonic missiles. And my hope is that this just goes on long enough so that we can just all get back to business. The young people in China are very easy to get along with. It's the Mao generation. That's the problem. And Xi Jinping is probably the last leader you'll see from that generation. So cross my fingers, and I'm still owning TSM, and I expect to buy more. David, let me go back to something I heard you just saying.

I think it was something along the lines of there are lots of things that we, the West, can do constructively to manage, defuse the situation between the West and China. What are they? Well, a lot of it is old-fashioned deterrence. It's to ensure that when Xi Jinping wakes up in the morning and looks across the Taiwan Strait, that he concludes that an attack on Taiwan would not succeed. And that means from the U.S. Department of Defense, hardening our bases, doing more with Japan, to promote some interoperability with Japanese forces,

strengthening Taiwan's military and its defense, really investing in our capabilities in the Indo-Pacific. One thing that we should learn from the war in Ukraine is that our defense industrial base is not where it needs to be and not where we would like to have it if we did have a major power conflict with China. So we need to do a lot more to invest in our defense industrial base, rebuild our stockpiles, and really prioritize those munitions and platforms that we would need for a contingency in the Taiwan Strait.

I also think we should be clearer with Xi Jinping on the cost he would face by way of sanctions and potential U.S. direct military intervention on Taiwan's behalf to defeat Chinese aggression. John, what should the philosophy be that U.S. multinationals should, you know, deepen their engagement in China China because it might help stave off a future conflict, or do they need to sort of rather hastily pull out, you know, diversify, have backup plans, and would that itself hasten a conflict? Kelly, let's face it, Apple made a mistake concentrating that much production in one country. Every board of directors have ever been on understands that you need to diversify sources

in case something goes wrong. going to India will help. Tomorrow, the heads of TSM and Samsung are in Tokyo, working with the prime minister on some new facilities there. That'll take a long time, as David says. So in the meantime, if you can do so within your own principles, doing business in China is actually a very good thing for the long-term piece of the world.

But I think in the near term, it's getting much more difficult, especially the new data security laws that put expats at risk in China. So I would not want to be physically in China at the moment with the current environment. All right. We'll leave it there. John Rutledge, David Sachs. Thank you both today. We appreciate it. U.S. stocks are heading higher right now, but bond yields are basically flat. Let's get the latest out with Rick Santelli in Chicago today. Hi, Rick. Yes, Kelly. Yields are basically flat, but they have been moving higher. As a matter of fact, if you look at two-year note yields since mid-April, you'll see they're on pace to close at the highest level.

And you go to the other end of the yield curve 30-year bonds early March. Finally, the dollar indexes followed rates higher. It is now hovering at some of the best levels that we've seen since late March, and that's important because maybe one of the big stories today is, are we getting closer to a deal on the debt ceiling? And for that, Dave, me so. Oh, my man. How you doing?

Rick, how are you? Good to see you. All right, what do he thinks moving markets today? I think it's all about the debt ceiling. See, there we go. Why we're rallying. People don't really care about the numbers as much. It's all about the debt ceiling. And the politicians will come out with the charade.

You know, hey. It really does seem to be a kabuki dance, but we have to deal with it as it is. So you don't think initial claims tomorrow, basically at seven and a half-month-ise or continuing claims at 17-half-month-month-is, not as important as the immediacy of the debt ceiling? It should be, but it's not. It doesn't feel like it. It's all about the debt ceiling. So.

And what about the VIX? I see that the VIX. You know, it looks like to me that the move doesn't necessarily equate to the strategies I'm hearing on the trading floor. That's correct. So in general, when the market goes down, everything explodes. When it goes up, comes off. So we have options price that way. But everybody in here vix is down of one in the quarter. But everybody in here has all these options priced higher because we've moved so far up that there's panic. And so they need it.

Now, what happens if we get a story that, you know, they're not going to require able-bodied people to work to get benefits? so the Speaker of the House says no deal. What if we eat a stalemate? We'll get something like that because it's a charade. It's the government. They come out with this nonsense talking both sides of the aisle. It's complete and utter garbage. In the end, if the Dezio's signed,

if we take it up all the slackers, or more room to the upside on stocks. Oh, there's definitely room to the upside, especially if there is some kind of deal. But I don't think there will be. I think there's going to be some panic. And I think we're in for the next couple weeks. There's going to be some volatility coming around.

All right. I guess that means buckle up your seatbelts traders. Kelly, back to you. Thank you both. We appreciate it. Coming up, for many, a new CEO at Twitter brought a sigh of relief. A seasoned ad executive could allow Musk to step aside, focus more time on Tesla, and he's fears about dangerous speech on the platform.

But Musk says he'll do whatever he wants. We'll have the details and the implications next. And as we had to break, Elon Musk also weighing in on the EV market, saying lower prices will help drive adoption, pointing out people still don't realize price prices are even dropping? So a lot of people still think Tesla's are super expensive because we did start out with an expensive sports car than like a slightly less expensive sedan and SUV. But now we're at the point where the starting price of a Tesla is actually below the

average selling price of a car in the United States. So Tesla is actually much more affordable than people realize. And so we should just make sure people at least know that. that Tesla is also the safest cars in the road. Steeful also out with a new note today saying they expect robust EV sales over the next decade. And they're saying buy a charging business EV go. But look at that stock.

Down big today, down 18 percent on news they're working to raise cash by selling stock. The price currently near $5 below Steeples target from just this morning. Power Lunch will be back right after this. Welcome back to Power Lunch. One of the most talked about clips from last night's David Faber interview with Elon Musk is when Musk thought deeply about David's question regarding his Twitter account and then responded with this quote from Inigo Montoya. You know, I'm reminded of the scene in the Princess Bride, great movie, where he confronts the person who killed his father. He says, offer me money, offer me power.

I don't care. So you just don't care. You want to share what you have to say? I'll say what I don't want to say. And if the consequence of that is losing money, so be it. Well, Elon Musk did just hire a new CEO to help Twitter alert advertisers. Might make her job a little more difficult. I don't know.

But I feel like does it make the world a safer place? Let's ask Julia Borsden, these loaded questions. She joins us here on set. I mean, where do we even begin? Well, you have to see the Princess Bride. First of all, it's a great movie. But I think this idea that he is singularly focused on free speech, nothing is going to push him off that path.

That was the point of quoting the Princess Bride there. But I think what's so interesting here is he wants to be a proponent of free speech, but also have a platform where advertisers feel like they can be trusted. And he really emphasized that advertising needs to be accurate. He also wants it to be entertaining. And I think he's going to really lean on Lindyak Reno, our former colleague, who has currently been named CEO of Twitter, to manage those relationships with advertisers. He doesn't care if it costs him money, it seems. It's a private company.

It's not a publicly held company. But if he repeats, for example, anti-Semitic tropes, it's not just money that it's going. It costs society, doesn't it? I mean, there's some moral compass that individuals need to follow, don't they? I mean, if you indulge, if you repeat things that are facially, factually false and divisive, that's not good, whether it costs him money or not. Well, last night, David Faber pushed him on that on whether it was factually false. He said technically what he was talking about was not factually false.

But I think what you're raising here is an ethical question, right? And then I think there's a question of if it's a private company and he doesn't have to, have shareholders. He doesn't have, you know, an independent board of directors that has a duty to those shareholders that is making decisions about these things. And he ultimately gets to decide what to do. And he gets to decide what is the ethical choice for his company. And I think in so many of these situations, whether we're talking about meta or other, you know, companies like YouTube, all these companies that have to deal with the content on their platforms. And the fact that they're not held liable for what is shared on their platform. We've been talking about Section 230 that this

really all comes down to Elon Musk because he's in charge with this company. And also I feel like what Ty are getting at too is kind of the feeling of Twitter. Does it feel like a free... Of course, advertisers can walk away. I mean, they don't have to advertise there. Or users can walk away. Users can walk away if

they don't like what they're seeing there or they feel that the proprietor of the store is a bigot, an anti-Semite, whatever, you know. And that's the question is, does his behavior impact advertising dollars? Because ultimately this is an ad-supported platform. He wants to build up these subscription services, but for now, it is very much an ad-supported platform. And does it impact subscribers, not just retaining subscribers, but also subscriber engagement? If people have signed up and they

only log on once or twice a week because they don't like what's on there, then that's going to impact, again, the ad revenue. So it's about the users and it's about the advertisers, and we'll see how he navigates both of these. His answer to kind of some of the sophomoric and other things, his initial answer in buying Twitter was, you know, I don't need advertisers. We can make it a fun user-driven place. And his now pivot seems to be, It has to be advertising driven. And the implications of that for whether what he says or what others say, I think, remains to be seen. Interestingly enough, this is at the same time he also told David, he wants Tesla to advertise for the first time.

And its advertising might also look like content, like the Formula One Netflix movie that drove so much engagement, a Tesla movie, something in that regard. I mean, creative content is what he thinks will be their move there. Well, look, I mean, if you talk to anyone on Madison Avenue, this is the upfront week. This is when you have all of the media giants pitching to advertisers, advertisers always want their ads to be entertaining. We've seen a lot of this, whether it's ads on Instagram, really trying to be interactive and, like, content. We've seen brands trying to be more of a starring character like we saw with the Nike movie Air. You know, we're really seeing brands more take a starring role, not just in ads like the Super Bowl, which are certainly entertainment, but also with the likes of this Nike Air movie. They want to be comfortable with the environment in which their ads appear, right?

Yeah, oh, absolutely. And also, to a certain extent, they want to be able to control what type of content they're next to. It's surrounding them. Yes, exactly. And so, Linda Yakorino's to pitch. She gets that. When she was pitching to advertisers about the advantages of NBC Universal content, was that she could say, put your ads next to our content, NBCU content on YouTube or on Twitter,

because you know you have the safety of being adjacent to this premium content. So it's going to be interesting to see how she works with advertisers to make sure that they are comfortable with the type of content they're next to. If you're a baby food brand, you might have different preferences about your adjacencies than if you're a beer brand. And I think that those are questions that she's going to have to navigate.

And just as a final observation, I mean, we pay for YouTube, ad-free, I mean, I rarely see IDVR NBA games everywhere. Like, I so rarely get placed ads that I wonder if creative is one of the only options for a company like Tesla to really get that message out, although you might say, okay, ad-free is still a small share of the overall market.

And if anything, streaming seems to be moving towards more ad loading. Streaming is moving towards more advertising, especially if the economy continues to get worse. You're going to see more and more people opt for the ad-supported version. You are in the minority in that you're paying not to see ads. And so especially if you're watching content like sports, that's real-time content, people watch the ads. But there is this understanding that with the growth of streaming and the growth of services like Netflix or any of these streamers, you are seeing sort of this desire to reach consumers when they're watching in real-time. And on these platforms, you know, if it's a meta or

Twitter when they feel like there's an urgency around the content. I'm still mad you can't DVR Amazon Prime for those Thursday night games. There's no fast-forwarding. That's by design. I don't like it. I watch a lot of sports content as surprised to no one. I couldn't tell you what the ads are. All I know is that a lot of them are for insurance companies.

They're all insured. Jake from State, California, Mayhem guy. By way, that means it's a good ad if you remember it. Progressive. We're all turning into our parents. Julia, good to have you in the house. It's great to be here. It's to be with you.

And speaking to the NBA, the NBA's hottest prospect since LeBron James, winding up in one of the league's smallest markets. But how much impact could a rookie have? We'll discuss what this could mean for the business of the NBA after this. Welcome back to Power Launch, everybody. We've got stocks heading higher. Oil moving up as well. Pippa Stevens has the details.

Pippa. Yeah, oil is up almost 3%. And we got a pretty bearish inventory report. So this is kind of a continuation of the trend of everything is higher. So oil is also going to go higher and not. really trade today based on the fundamentals and the market. So on that inventory report, slackpiles were up 5 million barrels in the latest week, and that was against what analysts thought would be a 750,000 barrel draw. So that was definitely on the bear side. One bright spot,

though, was that gasoline inventory decreased by more than a million barrels, and refinery jump to 92% ahead of the summer driving season. And that's bullish for oil, because if refiner utilization is higher, they are buying more oil, so that supports crude. Now, one quick thing, though, So we talk a lot about how the manufacturing slow down and how the good slowdown is bad for oil. But Goldman Sachs actually found that the services side of the economy is much more important and that services GDP drives 70% of oil growth. Because think about it a lot of the time the service is you have to travel.

Exactly. So you're driving to your haircut or to school or whatever. And so that's much more important. And so they say that that's still the post-pandemic services recovery still isn't there. And so that should drive upside in the second half. But again, it's all about the second half. What's the sense? If inventories were sending a bearer signal, what is the sentiment that would cause oil to rise?

Is it a sense that, well, maybe the debt ceiling is going to get resolved and the economy's going to be okay? Yes. So it's a risk on day. Everything is up. There's optimism around, you know, those talks and, you know, what that means for oil demand. And so kind of like when everything's up, then oil is just in sympathy trading and it's going up as well. Why even bother studying supply demand? I mean, there were so many good examples last, so many deep dives. and you look at it, it makes sense. You know, the oil should be up, but it was down. And then you look at it next day, oil should be down and it's up.

It's almost the more data we have, the harder it is to parse. And now that it all comes out so quickly, everyone's trying to run their models. And sometimes it's just not about that. Yeah, exactly. Thank you, Pippa. Pippa Stevens. Let's get to Courtney Reagan now for CNBC News Update. Court.

Thank you, Tyler. Here is your CNBC News Update at this hour. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis signed a slate of controversial bills today. The new laws banned gender affirming care for minors, strict pronoun use in schools and target drag shows. The legislation passed easily through the Florida legislature where Republicans have a supermajority in both chambers. Critics say the measures are anti-LGBQ. An appeals court rejected a bid by Elizabeth Holmes to remain free while she tries to overturn her conviction. The disgrace Theranos founder and former CEO Sonny Balwani will also have to pay

$452 million in restitution to the victims of their crimes. The court's decision comes nearly three weeks after Holmes deployed a last-minute legal maneuver to delay the start of her 11-year sentence in April. A Sherpa from Nepal summited Mount Everest for the 27th time on Wednesday, breaking his own previous record. Camirita scaled the 29,000-foot mountain early this morning while guiding a foreign climber. His first summit was in 1994. Kelly, back over to you. I'm never doing that. Yeah. Wow. No thanks. What a guy. I love how Tyler's so supportive, and Courtney and I are like, No way. Forget it. Ahead on Power Lunch, the work from home debate heating up again.

More companies calling employees back to the office, but many workers aren't happy with it. Elon Musk says working from home is morally wrong. We'll discuss next. A growing debate over the return to the office. Since the shutdown ended, employees and employers have been caught in an endless struggle, does hybrid work. The Wall Street Journal writing recently that the return to office has stalled offices, remain empty. But this week, some companies are pushing back. BlackRock calling employees back to

the office four days a week, AT&T to reduce office locations and call managers back in, and even Elon Musk telling David Faber that working from home is morally wrong. Take a listen. It's like, it's like, really, you're going to work from home and you're going to make everyone else who made your car come work to the factory. You're going to make the people who make your food that gets delivered, that they can't work from home. You know, the people that come fix your house, they can't work from home, but you can? Does that seem morally right? That's messed up.

You see it as a moral issue? Yes. I mean, I see it more as just a... It's a productivity issue, but it's also a moral issue. People should get off the moral high horse with the work from home because they're asking everyone else to not work from home while they do. Well, let's talk more about this now. Evan Sone is with us. He's chairman and CEO ofRecruiter.com, and Julie Bouchy is president and chief career

strategist at the Bowkeye Group. Welcome to both of you. Julie, I'm going to start with you because probably in the crosshairs are two parents working with kids. Let's say they're in their 30s, and I feel like we're going to have a whole cultural moment about what this family should do and the value of work from home, even though we know a lot of this is going to ultimately depend on the tightness or looseness of the labor market. It is. And to insert the phrase morally wrong into this debate really muddies it. It doesn't have to. have anything to do with morality. There are jobs, certain jobs require certain things from you. A physical therapist cannot work from home, a programmer can. And there's not a moral issue there.

It's just differences in jobs, different requirements, different productivity expectations. And when we take on a job or study a certain field, we need to understand that that job will come with different expectations from other jobs of people living down the street. And that's okay. We don't have to treat everybody exactly the same. Evan, we know that Mr. Musk is prone to sort of hyperbolic quotes. Just because you're the richest guy in the world does not necessarily mean you're the smartest. This feels to me like not a moral equivalency, but a moral inequivalency. A roofer has to go work on a roof, not at his home.

A chef has to go work generally not at his or her home. I don't get it. I just don't even get the point here. Look, you know, he's an incredible individual who the legend has it that he would sleep on the floor in the Tesla factory as they were trying to get product out the door. So clearly he has a different DNA that he really carries around with him. And I agree with Julie. I don't think the word really is morally. But let's actually change the conversation.

Companies now get to decide what sort of culture. they want to have. And the employees, the talent, get to decide, do they want to join those companies or not? So morally wrong might be a company that said, hey, we're going to be 100% remote. And then in the 11th hour, change their mind, hey, now we are 100% in office. Maybe that might be considered morally wrong. But companies get to decide what they want to be, the culture that they want to create. Not too long ago, J.P. Morgan Chase and Bank of America said, all right, everyone back to the office and they're prioritizing in-person training and bringing up the next generation in their organizations while companies like Airbnb and Shopify said, hey, we don't care

where you are. We're looking for the best talent for these roles. And I think companies are choosing the culture that they want. Employees are choosing the companies that align with their culture and their overall mission. Yeah, and I think, Evan, as well, I mean, all of this is true, but it is coinciding with a cultural thing here that is in some ways a big. experiment. I mean, we really haven't had, you know, tried to make it work where both parents are working full-time and they're raising kids. And it's like society has to figure out what its

objective is. Is the objective to keep or get women into the workforce during those years and beyond? Is the objective to increase, you know, fertility or whatever it is? You know, they have to figure out what the objective is before we can start deciding what's morally good or morally bad or whatever. I would agree. And you look at the, you know, we report every month, but you're looking at the salary and wage increases of those roles. And many of the roles that were in person, the hospitality, the transportation industry. We saw those salaries increased tremendously over the last two years. So to get people to come back into the office or to get people to be in person, carries with it a higher price tag as well. And we want to see that happen.

We want to see wage increase. Julie, he owns his company, Twitter. He is a major shareholder, obviously, in Tesla, so he can set the rules there however he wants. But there are discriminations that have to be made within companies, there are companies where some functions can be done in the office and some can be done from home. I should say that's where some functions must be done in the office or on the factory floor and others can be done from home. And companies are free to make that decision for their workforces and you as the employee are free either to be employed there or to choose not to be. By the way, going back, Julie?

Sorry. As we've said, Elon Musk can choose whatever culture he wants to build. But a cautionary here is that you do have to take, you have to take into consideration what the workforce wants and what the workforce is responding to. We're living in a more collaborative world than we are top down. And when you say you have to be in the office, you are limiting your talent pool to people who live in your geography who are willing to come into the office. And as we saw through COVID, people moved.

They, you know, they changed their lives up. And as a part of that, they changed their priorities. And so being in the office might have worked in the old before times. But now saying you have to do that, we're going to get people like Musk are going to get a lot of pushback. That's only going to continue as the younger workers can continue to take up more space in the workplace. So there's a downside. You can put your fist down and you can demand everybody come back. But with every decision you make, there will be a reaction by those that decision impacts.

So you have to be ready to deal with the consequences of your decisions. I'm not sure he's really thought that through. All right. Well, you know, quickly, Evan, before we go, does your data show that remote work is going away, or is it here to stay? It's definitely here to stay. And we're seeing hybrid is probably more the norm where you're getting a little bit of both. You're getting that in-person, cultural. And it's really about retention.

How do we make sure that you're building employees that are going to stay? Yeah. No, Fridays are the best day to commute now because there's no one on the road. Yes, it's true. No one's in the cafeteria. You get a speed pass. Evan Stone and Julie Bauki, thank you both very much today. We appreciate you.

Thanks so much. Thanks, guys. Still ahead, Hoop Dreams, the NBA's San Antonio Spurs winning the league's draft lottery and the right to draft French star Victor Wenban Yama. Why the hottest prospects since LeBron could be a slam dunk for the league and for advertisers, Plus the world's best-selling book, now the most expensive, a Bible selling for millions on the auction block. The details on that when Power Lunch continue. Welcome back to Power Lunch, the NBA Conference finals beginning and ratings are up big this year for the first two rounds of the playoffs.

The league averaging more than 5 million viewers, highest since ESPN got the rights back in 2002 and up 14% since last year. And with the TV rights expiring at the end of the 2025 season, is the NBA. hitting its stride at just the right time. For more, we're joined by Kurt Heelan, NBC Sports Managing Editor and lead NBA writer. Kurt, this really, I mean, these ratings are good because the matchups have been good and compelling. It couldn't come at a better time because the NBA's TV rights are being let out to bid very soon. Yeah, the NBA is kind of in its transition point from its older stars like LeBron James, like Stefan Curry, to a younger generation.

and that younger generation didn't step up this year. So we got these classic, you know, Curry versus LeBron matchups, Boston and Philadelphia, a major market. So I think that certainly has helped the ratings, but you're right. It couldn't come as a better time because next March, they start the exclusive negotiating window and things get serious with building out that next TV deal.

And if you can go in and say, hey, he can deliver these larger audiences all the better. As you look at those negotiations that are going to start here, Do you suspect that the contracts will be more fractionalized than they are now? In other words, there won't just be ESPN, ABC, and TNT, but there will be a streamer or two involved here, and that maybe you'll have to go hunting for the game. I think that that is where things are headed.

If you remember the last time, Fox tried to get in and Turner TNT and Disney ABC essentially told the league, no, we'll pay whatever to keep them out. That's not how it's going to be this time. You're going to see, look, you guys have reported that NBC and Peacock have been interested, Apple, Amazon. There's a lot of interested streamers in other markets. And I think you're going to see a shift more and more towards, I don't want to say away from cable, because ESPN is going to have a large presence in this. But you're seeing a shift more towards broadcast and streaming rather than a traditional cable package.

I might just take small issue, Kerr. I mean, the young guys helped the Lakers, I think, since they made those moves for sure. I mean, I'm watching them, and I'm like, geez, these guys are pretty good. Yeah. But there might be a superstar problem, though, right? LeBron's nearing the end of his career. Even Steph Curry is. And, you know, we all remember Zion.

That one, you know, hasn't maybe quite lived up to the hype. Maybe Wenban Yamma will. But how would you say, what is the health of the NBA overall in terms of ratings and in terms of the brand power? I mean, the NFL remains the juggernaut. The NBA, I don't know, like a silver medal? Yeah, I don't think anything is touching the, you know, the 800-pound gorilla that is the NFL right now in terms of ratings and in terms of cultural impact. But the NBA is getting close. And I think when you're looking at what the owners see, not only do they see a young rising prop of stars,

Yana Sant'Enacompo is kind of the bridge a little bit, but there's young stars coming up. And Victor Wambaamba could very well be that guy. There's guys like Lamello Ball that if you talk to. I've talked to my friends of my children who are under guys who are under 14 into basketball. That's like the first name that comes up. There are these young, more social media-driven stars like Zion that necessarily haven't cracked through on the biggest stages yet, but will. Talk to us about...

The game is international, isn't it? I think the biggest growth for the game is that this is the best brand in the world and the best stars from all over the world are playing here. So it's not just your domestic TV rights, it's the international. Oh, you're so right. I mean, you look at Nicola Yolkich last night. I mean, he was just amazing and Donkich and a lot of international. So talk to me about, on the one hand, you have potential. You got Wembeyan. The history of very tall, slender guys in the NBA is not all that favorable. Talk to me on the prospect on the one hand and the problem on the other that is John Moran. We hope he gets himself figured out because he's an amazing talent, but he also has a talent for getting himself into hot water. Wemba Yama is the kind of player that comes into the league very rare. I mean, he's been, look, scouts I've talked to have compared him to the best prospect since Loran James or Shaquille or Neal or these kind of guys who became megastars in the league.

And hopefully he can be that guy. I mean, you never know until you see him there, but a 7-5 guy who can shoot three-pointers and handles the ball like a guard and as a defensive wizard, he has the potential to be special. and John Morant is special on the court. Hopefully, he's one of the guys, Nike's giving him a signature shoe. He had a sports drink brand who was going to make him front and center

and kind of laid back on that a little bit. There's potential with him to be one of those new faces of the league because he's so dynamic on the court, but hopefully he can get the parts of his lives together that allow him to take advantage of those opportunities. We got to go. I just want to mention Kurt. it looks like you're working from home, unless that's just those steak knives are part of the NBC.

Work from home has, yeah, he's not been called back to the office. I have apparently been morally corrupt for 13 years since I joined NBC because I've been working from home since then. Kurt, thanks for your time today. Thanks for having me. Kurt Heelan. As we had to break. He didn't get busked message, did he? Right afterwards.

CNBC is celebrating Asian American and Pacific Islander Heritage Heritage throughout May, sharing stories of business leaders across their community. Here is Manishandra, Posh Marks, founder, and CEO. When I think of my Asian heritage and I think about how I grew up in a country where there's a lot of people, you know, India is a country of a billion people. Asia is one of the largest continent with a lot of population. You really have to work hard to distinguish yourself and stand out. And so, so that real focus on working hard and at the same time working with everyone, but also carving out a place for yourself is something I learned very early. Welcome back to Power Lunch, huge markets day, although we're off the highs.

The Dow's up 366 points, and we're seeing 1.1% gains across the board, driven by some hopes or expectations, you might say, about a positive resolution for the debt ceiling, but it always we want to emphasize as a tenuous reason to cite. Still a green mood and even oil, as Pippa mentioned, is in the green today. Shares of win resorts are one of the big winners with Barclays upgrading the stock to overweight, raising their price target to 135 as well. The analysts saying Las Vegas is strong. Macau's recovery is even gaining steam.

Those shares are up about 6% today to 110. Also, check out Meta and NVIDIA. They are the two best performers on the S&P so far this year. They've doubled. They're up more than 100%. Granted, both also lost more than half of their value in 2022. But again, just such an incredible run here for META and NVIDIA. Tyler.

All right, still to come. The world's oldest known Hebrew Bible selling for millions on the auction block. That and more when Power Lunch wraps it up. The most exciting four minutes in television begins right now. A bunch of stories you need to know about, so let's not waste any time. Clock is ticking. There it goes. President Biden and House Speaker McCarthy say they won't let the government default on its debt, but they also don't have any concrete progress on a deal. Both sides seeming to indicate that talks are moving forward. President Biden making his comments before heading to Asia for a trip here.

He cut short so that he can return to the negotiations. The markets seem today to be acting as though a deal is going to happen. Who knows? Who knows? But it's unfortunate that Asia trip got cut short, by the way. Implications for the effort to kind of gather alleys for the Ukraine war, obviously cast our weight, you know, contra China. So he must have felt it was important enough. Yeah, absolutely.

Meanwhile, just like online dating, ghosting appears pretty popular for the airlines lately. The Wall Street Journal highlighting that so-called budget airlines like Breeze and Frontier have been experimented. with offering cheaper flights to under-served areas to draw customers in, but they'll pull the plug on the route quickly if it doesn't sell. So, in other words, I may find an attractive price on a flight to Fort Lauderdale, say, but they decide, hey, we're canceling the flight to Fort Lauderdale because it wasn't selling. Now, presumably they wouldn't do it if you got the ticket, or maybe they would. Maybe they would.

I mean, maybe they would. But I'd rather, I mean, I don't want to know. When are they going to cancel it and tell you? It's a flight over, yeah. And it might be the big difference if they're the only budget airline going there, then that could change the whole, you know, calculus. Let's talk about Taco Tuesday, shall we? Who will rain crunch wrap Supreme?

Taco Bell is filing a petition to cancel the trademark Taco Tuesday, which has been held by Taco Johns for a long time because they say it should belong to all who make, sell, eat, and celebrate tacos. I'm the judge in that case. If they guys have the copyright or the trademark? I think there's a LeBron angle here as well, because in a court case, I think he was granted the right to use the terminology or something it might open the door towards actually them softening the taco Tuesday.

Then we can do DACO Tuesday with Greg DACO here on set anyway. We can do that now. Going beyond the call of duty, some bed bath and beyond investors aren't giving up on the company, not just yet. The company has said it expects shareholders will be wiped out a projection that emphasizes the hard math of its Chapter 11 filing. Yet some are hoping for a comeback still. Bed bath and beyond. I don't know.

I mean, it sounds like it ain't happening. No, there's no comeback. You know, there have been some great pieces lately written about just what's happened here and gone wrong here and the management kind of loading the company with debt in what looked like a very unpromising situation, doing share buybacks when maybe they could have reinvested that capital better. Loading it with debt and loading it with merchandise that was just to the rafters. Right. I mean, it's amazing.

It reminds me a little bit of the, you know, the fattest magazine ever was like Vogue or Vanity in like 2006 and then magazines went away. Like Bedbath had this amazing Christmas in 2012 or 2013. And then literally that was the moment. It's been all downhill since. And moments ago, the Codex Sassoon sold at auction at Sotheby's, estimated at about 1,000 years old. It is the oldest known and most complete Hebrew Bible. Robert Frank is here and has the final auction price on this item.

Drum roll, please. And it was, the price was. Breaking Bible news, Tyler. I can't say that that often. No. $38 million. That makes it the most expensive manuscript or book. ever sold breaking the Leonardo da Vinci record that Bill Gates said 30 years ago.

The buyer is Alfred Moses. He's a former U.S. ambassador to the Moses family, then donating this to the ANU Museum in Israel. So it'll be on public view. The highest priced document ever sold went to a person familiar to many CNBC. Ken Griffin, it was an original draft of the Constitution. And it had that interesting chapter of Constitution Dow. There was no Bible Dow in this case, wasn't that? There was no crypto investors bidding against Mr. Moses, so it went for 38. Still a great price, not quite the 50 that some expected, but it's great to see that people will be able to see this in the public, the most complete, oldest Hebrew Bible.

From Bentley's to Bible. Cover it all. Sacred and profane. Thanks for watching, Carl Lodge, everybody.