Power Lunch - Stocks fall Friday after Trump threatens new tariffs against the EU and Apple 5/23/25

Episode Date: May 23, 2025

Stocks declined Friday after President Trump raised trade fears again, warning Apple and recommending stiffer duties on the European Union. We’ll cover all of the angles for you. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

And welcome to Power Lunch, everybody, alongside the pride of Dayton, Ohio. Courtney Reagan, I'm Brian Sullivan. Your portfolio could go nuclear. President Trump expected to sign an executive order to try to help boost the energy industry. We're still awaiting that signing. It could happen at any moment. And on that note, after it's done, we should have, we expect to have, we hope to have, the CEO Power Giant Constellation.

Mr. New Jersey, Joe Dominguez, will join us ahead. Courtney, welcome. Thanks, Brian. It's good to be here. So in the market, stocks are off session lows, but do remain under pressure. As President Trump also threatens new tariffs on Apple and the EU, calling for a 25% tariff on all Apple iPhones, not built here in America, and also threatening a 50% tariff on the EU by the end of next week.

The other big story this week has been the move and yields, as the president's budget bill makes its way through Congress, adding even more uncertainty about fiscal policy. So joining us now for more is Michael Cantoritz. He is Piper Sandler's chief investment, and head of portfolio strategy. Michael, thank you so much for joining us. Obviously, a lot of headlines to go through today.

As Brian suggested, we are waiting for another executive order. We don't have it yet, and we don't yet know, obviously, the full details. But markets paying attention to what's going on in D.C. How should be positioned right now when really there are so many unknowns? Yeah, absolutely. And we've been recommending investors remain balanced in generally larger companies with better superior fundamentals that can remain resilient in this backdrop of uncertainty, high price levels, and interest rates that I think are going to remain sticky for some time. So the market continues

to get whipped around in terms of what it's focused on, you know, up until this morning, it was interest rates and now it's back to tariffs. And that will likely be the case until the next catalyst shifts the narrative once again. Obviously, we pay an awful lot of attention to the equity market with the bond market has been sending us signals for quite some time. And some folks look at that is really where our eyes should go first. What are your expectations for what we're going to see on yields? I think there was a period of time where we thought we're not going to go past four. Clearly, we are well past four at this point. Yeah, well, I think what took us higher from mid-September or mid-September of last year was largely that the employment data got a lot better in the

U.S. after softer employment data in the middle of last year. So the economy, the economy got better. Economic surprises improved into the beginning of this year, and that took rates back up. And then, of course, we had all the volatility from tariffs. And now you've got quite a bit of a mixed picture. Inflation, you know, on inflation, you've got oil that's at very low levels, and you've got some high-frequency inflation data like prices paid on manufacturing at very high levels due to the higher tariff numbers, even that haven't fully reflected the drop in China tariffs. So there's a very mixed picture from inflation. In terms of growth in the economy, that's really about employment.

And the last two employment reports have been fine. I expect the next two employment reports to be fine. So I think yields are kind of going to be where they are. I don't think the deficit issues, or at least in the U.S., I would point to Japan's 30-year bond yield, which has been probably carrying the global yield higher as a bigger issue than the U.S. deficit. You know, it's so interesting you bring up such good points. which we talk about often the difference between what we're seeing in the hard data and the soft data. So things like employment, that looks pretty good.

But then consumer confidence, that doesn't look so good. The psychology certainly plays a big part in investing. And to be honest, I am somewhat surprised that the markets are only off the major indices by about a half a percent on these new potentially threatened tariffs from President Trump on the EU or Apple phones specifically. Is the market just starting to sort of shake off some of these headlines as, look, this is, look, this is, sort of the initial warning shot across the bow, we're not actually going to see those numbers. Is that a fair assumption or a dangerous assumption to make if you're trying to deploy capital in this market? I think that's a fair assumption. Again, we have EU tariffs to get through and then product tariffs and semiconductor tariffs that are still coming. So there's a long tail

of uncertainty with respect to Trump's tariff agenda. And he clearly, again, does want to have these tariffs in place. I don't think anyone believes that we're going to see a 50% tariff stick in Europe. And I think given the recent behavior in early April, the markets, maybe perhaps calling Trump's bluff or perhaps a little bit more desensitized to it and thinking of where we will end up, not necessarily the path we'll take to get there, which is how the market acted back in early April. Yeah, that's true. I guess the path could be sort of staggered, but maybe maybe the end goals where we need to keep our eyes on, keep that eyes on the prize. Is it your assumption or your base case scenario that we will avoid recession?

Or is that still a question mark? Yeah, I believe so. You know, the tariffs are another hit to the economy that was already pretty bifurcated. We don't expect, obviously, you know, if we had those higher levels of tariffs, yes, that would be very likely. But again, there's a lot of offsets. We've got deregulation. That's going to be a big story.

that's going to unfold in the second half. This tax bill is going to get passed through, and there's some really pro-growth policies there, like expensing of property plant and equipment structures, and we've got really low oil prices. So when you look at the interest rate market, yes, rates are high with respect to the last few years, but they're at the same levels they've been at for the last few years.

And when you think about the impulse on the economy, it's really about the change in rates that causes sharper downturns, not that rates just stay high. And so the change in rates in the last year is effectively zero. So that's a much better place to be with lower oil and those other potential tailwinds that, again, I think we'll keep the economy healthy and looking okay in the aggregate, but underneath the surface will continue to see bifurcation from those areas that are negatively affected by interest rates like housing and smaller businesses. All right. So let's put all of this together. And let's come up with some actionable

actionable advice for our viewers. You have a list, I understand, of stocks that have some lower betas and negative correlations to interest rates or names we might be interested in exploring. What do you got for us? Yeah, I don't have that list right in front of me. So this morning, I did publish a note because, again, there's a wide variation view on where tariffs are going. And with the market's recovery and the valuation levels, there's certainly many investors that are concerned or bearish today and that the view that tariffs will, again, cause a sell-off and perhaps bring rates down on the fears of demand destruction. So we put out a list, again, I call it a tactical list for those investors that want to be more defensive. And so those would be, you know, again,

your typical lower beta countercyclical names that, you know, communication names, services. We got them up on the screen, in fact, to help our viewers. We got AT&T, Duke Energy, Sandusk, and Texas instruments for those that might be listening on Sirius XM radio. So again, that list is, it was for investors, again, we're always trying to cater to a wide range of clients. And for those investors that saw this tariff move as more of a negative and want to be more defensive, our, again, broader recommendation has not been to chase the news, but remain more balanced and think out more than, you know, a few weeks or a few days.

And so that's our broad recommendation. But that list, I think, again, is for investors looking for a market that's got to potentially sell off from here. Got a couple names too. Rollins. It looks like realty income, paychecks, Amcor. Michael Cantoritz from Piper Sandler, chief investment strategist and head of portfolio strategy. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here with us.

Happy Friday. Have a good Memorial Day weekend. You know, and I love that you said the names because I get so many people I meet everywhere all of the country that say, Brian, thanks for saying stuff because I listen on the radio XM 112. Yep. I can't watch. My dad listens too. I'm doing it for my dad. Mr. Reagan? Yeah. And Dayton? In Dayton, Ohio. Shouldn't have said pride of Dayton, Ohio, given that my wife is also from Dayton, Ohio. It's all right. We can share it. Oh, she went to high school. She finished high school there, so we'll say that. Both. We'll claim both titles. All right,

up next. President Trump's latest jab at Apple, his new demand from Tim Cook, and if Apple could actually do what Trump wants. Oh, and what it means for the stock coming up. This is meant to boost the industry. We've seen some investments, the first new nuclear plant in America. I know Pippa Stevens was down there a couple of months ago in Georgia. That opening up, Three Mile Island now renamed the Crane Energy Center. That may reopen. And by the way, the company that owns the Crane Energy Center slash Three Mile Line

on Constellation Energy, their CEO who's in the background right there in the yellow tie, he may join us on the right of the president. Our right, presidents left, is the secretary. the interior, Doug Bergam, to the president signing executive an order or orders multiple signatures promoting nuclear energy. We'll speak to the CEO of Constellation Energy, who's going to leave this signing, go to a camera, and talk to us at a few minutes. I mean, I'll say one thing. It is probably the most recognizable signature I've seen in a long time from a president or public figure. You can see that from a mile away. Like John Hancock. It's shocking. It's huge. It's, anyway.

President Trump saying on truth social this morning that Apple will need to pay a 25% tariff on iPhones sold in the United States if those devices are not manufactured in the U.S. You can see, shares of Apple selling off on the news. Joining us now for more is Daniel Newman, he's CEO of Futurone Group and James Chuck Muck, CIO of Clockwise Capital. James, you know, I'll start with you. Obviously, we talk about this very often. No one wants to pay higher prices for an Apple iPhone or really any Apple devices, but those payment plans, for phones sort of make the sticker shock more palatable. And also, as we've been talking about, if my iPhone gets run over by a truck tomorrow, I'm going out and buying a new one, no matter what the

cost. I mean, is that offer some protection to Apple? Yeah, obviously, they have a very sticky customer base that will continue to invest in Apple products, and we don't see that changing. However, I mean, what this just simply creates is a no-in situation for anybody. Apple loses consumers lose and there's no getting around it. And so it's it's not something that we think will derail the company in a material fashion. But at the same time, as an investor, you have to look elsewhere other than Apple. And we actually sold out of our entire position yesterday. Wow.

And that's on the assumption, what, that you just think it's only going lower from here, that none of these headlines can be good, even if that tariff doesn't end up being as bad what's threatened? Well, we're rotating out of mega-cap tech because we do think that the tail risks in the market are increasing in probability. And so we're rotating more to value, increasing our hedges, as well as focused more on the smaller tech side. And we think that Apple, the risk rewards, simply just wasn't there to justify owning the position, despite it being such a significant weight in the NASDAQ index. Wow, fascinating stuff. Daniel, what about you? I mean, What do you make of sort of what we've heard from President Trump about the idea of these tariffs on specifically Apple?

I mean, will it end up being as worse, as bad, I should say, as feared? Is this an overreaction in the stock or appropriate? Because maybe there is some level of tariff. I think there will end up being some level of tariff. I think this is a pattern of behavior from President Donald Trump in the administration. It's an escalate, de-escalate. I think President Trump is upset because he knows what Tim Cook is doing. Tim Cook is moving only a small fraction to India.

It may be all the final assembly, but all the sub-assemblies are still being done in China. And as the U.S.-China tensions remain, despite they are negotiating seemingly in better faith than we are with the EU, he wants to see more end up in the U.S. And he wants to see more, if he is going to move to India, which I think will end up with a better trade agreement, it's not just moving that last mile, which is all they are actually moving right now. I think he wants to see high-tech manufacturing in the U.S. He wants to see R&D. I want to be clear, Daniel, I want to be clear. At this point with Tim Cook and Evan Trump, we're just guessing, right? We actually don't know what ultimately is going to happen,

or do we think we know enough, Daniel, that we can make an educated assumption about how this ends? Well, I think only Donald Trump knows. President Trump knows right now exactly where this will end up. And even he still has to go through these negotiations. But what I do think is we know that when the tensions have grown too much, he's backed out. He has backed down. But he's also getting us progress. And we've made progress with China.

We're making progress with India. He's made progress with CEOs. I mean, him and Jensen Wong are still sparring, but we've made progress in the Middle East and in other regions. I think in the end, he doesn't want $3,000 iPhones for consumers in the U.S. We do not win if that's the case. But he also doesn't want a situation where India becomes China. And they become so important that we have no leverage.

We're still not making phones here. We haven't advanced robotics, automation, and manufacturing here in the United States. And I believe that he wants to see Tim Cook. They've spent $600 plus billion in buybacks, maybe additional dollars being spent to accelerate manufacturing in the U.S., bring more R&D back here, and commit to the fact that we're not going to allow China or India to ultimately control our ability to get the most advanced technologies here in the U.S. and the most important devices to pretty much every consumer on the planet. Yeah, as you're talking there, Daniel, it just sort of makes me think maybe sourcing is not

the biggest concern. We don't necessarily want them to have the intellectual property or the ability to innovate the way that we always have here in the United States while we're distracted and or having to spend money on tariffs and not actually plowing them into R&D. I understand you actually think this is not Apple's biggest risk, but potentially the fact that they either don't get AI right or that it keeps getting stalled or that that doesn't end up being a winner. You think that's really important for Apple to hit here, right? I think that their misses with Apple intelligence are their biggest risk. I think the price inelasticity exists. I think people will pay another two or three or $400. I think the problem is, with 16, the Apple intelligence really didn't impress people.

So we didn't get a super cycle. And if 17 isn't impressive, it really doesn't matter if they're the same price or $500 more, we'll keep our iPhone 12s and 13s a little long. That's a bigger risk to me than 25% tariffs. Yeah, and we also forget, James, that corporate tax rates have come down. I know tariffs are sort of a tax on consumers, but let's also be clear, corporations pay taxes, the corporate tax rate. Some people wanted it higher, some people lower. I don't want to get in the political sort of back and forth.

But as corporate tax rates have come down, does that mitigate some of the impact of potential tariffs? I mean, yeah, it mitigates it to a certain extent. It's not going to outdo them. I understand that because it's a big difference between a tax rate and a higher price on every device. I get that. Right. I mean, it will mitigate it. But at the end of the day, there's just so many unknowns in the market.

I mean, you have, you know, the dollar falling, treasury yields rising, foreign demand and treasuries falling. You have the unknown picture with tariffs, the unknown picture with how the demand will shake out, how pricing will shake out, inflation. There's just so many unknowns right now. And to say with precision where things can land is just increasingly difficult. And, you know, whether it be assessing Apple's impact with the tariffs with today's news or just the earnings outlook for the balance of the year. So right now, I mean, I think you've just got to be cognizant that there's a lot of risks swirling around and just continue to stay balanced. And we think that mega-cap tech, at least unfortunately for over the near term, will likely do relatively worse compared

to smaller cap tech technology. And it's coming off of years of outperformance, so that might not even be that unusual. Guys, sit tight for a second. I love live television, Courtney, because we got two great guests here. But I want to also now go back and show the president again who continues to sign these executive orders. So we're going to show that at the White House. President Trump speaking, this executive order that he's signed.

on nuclear is aimed. There's a few things that's trying to do, Courtney. It's trying to speed up the regulatory process. Trying to build a nuclear plant. We'll talk to Joe Dominguez, hopefully about this very soon, can take 10 years just for the paperwork. Yep. Just trying, so you cover retail, imagine if Walmart, if it took Walmart 10 years to start the construction of a store. Of a store. Right. Okay. I mean, untenable. And Walmart, by the way, will build a new store at about three days. Yeah, exactly. They've got it down to a science. This has meant up to speed up the permitting process as well as the fuel situation. Now, fuel obviously is uranium. Uranium is radioactive. There's dangerous things around uranium. So the process is a little more complicated. But,

and guys, let's bring up like an Aklo or uranium corp. Let's bring up some of these stocks because the whole nuclear complex, whether or not you are uranium producer, Camico. Let's bring up CCJ. It's called Producing from the desk, Courtney, a Camico. I'm sure the control room loves this. I'm sure they love me. I see that in Jess. It's literally just digging stuff out of the ground. Uranium, you know, it's a mine. It's a thing. It's like gold. You just go there. It's in the dirt. You dig it out. You refine it. There we go. Aklos up. But the entire nuclear complex is higher today. Because if this goes into play, then you can move a lot faster to actually get business going.

So that's an excellent point. I don't know. That's the goal of this EO. That's the goal of this executive order. But you have to remember that with energy, particularly with things like uranium, you've got a bunch of agencies that are all involved in the process. States are going to get involved. localities are going to get involved. Environmental groups are going to sue. Let's hope we can speed the process up because we want to be the winners in AI, but if we don't have the power, we can't do the AI. It's pretty much that simple. And so what do you think executive order could do?

Or what is the hope that it will do if we don't know if it will really help this when you have all these layers? I think it's a great question for the Constellate. CEO. Can't wait to ask him. Joe Dominguez should be joining us right when this signing is over. Hopefully it'll be before the end of a power lunch. And Joe's a blunt guy. He's from Tom's River, New Jersey. He'll just lay it straight out directly, which is rare in this environment. I think, do we still have James and Daniel there? Great. This again, guys, we call this producing from the chair. Daniel, is there any aspect of this AI ecosystem that you are investing in or looking to invest in? Yeah, I feel very strongly that what you just mentioned, the energy side of the

sector, this is the rate limiter, Brian, for all of the AI expansion. If you look at why we are running into problems with China, they're not advancing their technology as quickly as us, but they have three plus times the capacity. So if we can't meet the energy demands, that is an area for certain. I also really like the enterprise workflow plays. There's about four. trillion we expect over the next five years of cost takeout. I think there's a prune to grow. And if we do enter recession, if things do slow down, I actually think this enterprise software to agentic workflows are going to drive. Okay, I'm not. I can tell you anything you want about nuclear energy. I don't know what you just said. Enterprise workflow. Is that like a workday?

Like, are these the kind of companies you're talking about? Yeah, thanks. Let me give me that one. Service now. Service now is for instance. The company's red hot. They're building front-end solutions that basically connect to all the enterprise data and basically take out chair swivels, meaning the amount of time people spend moving data from one application to another, putting agents to work and getting things moving quicker in companies, taking out costs. And you see the companies that are growing the fastest are also taking out costs, just like Microsoft did. This is AI-driven. And so that's a good place to look at investing. Speaking of investing, James, I want to go back to you. I know that you said you sold out of your Apple position.

So maybe you're not super thrilled about what's going on in the technology space right now. And gold and Bitcoin are your largest allocations. That sounds like a little bit of a worry, a little bit of a hedge in a portfolio for me right now. Well, we've been long-term bulls on gold. So that really is independent of what's happening in the broader markets. But Bitcoin specifically is we still think one of the most underappreciated assets in the market and will be the largest contributor to returns in 2025. So we have no problem keeping an outsized position in it.

Yeah, and you lay this out in your sort of investor note that you came out with today, James, I think, which is that you kind of beat people over the head with it. You said, what was your, I'm going off memory here. I can't overstate the amount to which Bitcoin is going to play a role in our returns in 2025. I mean, that's a pretty strong statement if I got it correct. Yes, and we haven't sold any of it. and we've been buying more on the dips. And we continue to think that all of the geopolitical,

everything that's happening in the world right now, will, and any of the risks that we see in the market will ultimately benefit Bitcoin. So help me. I struggle. People ask me, I bought like a Bitcoin 10 years ago, sold it like the next day. I just wanted to see how it worked.

I'm not quite as bad as the dude that bought the two pizzas that are now would have been worth more than Papa Johns as a company where he got the pizza, those two pies of Bitcoin, it's mind-blowing. But for the viewers that still, I struggle to answer the question to people, what's the value proposition of Bitcoin? I say I'm going to call James Chokmock. So what is the value proposition of Bitcoin?

Why is Bitcoin at $109,000? What are you getting when you buy a Bitcoin? Sure. I mean, you go back through all of history. You have seen fiat currencies, I have seen a reduction in purchasing, power over time. And that's because governments continue to spend.

They're on borrowed dollars, borrowed time, and you lose purchasing power. You know, gold up until Bitcoin was the predominant store of value, because gold only increases in supply about 2% per year, because it's just too expensive to increase the supply beyond that. Bitcoin, however, has a finite supply. and a scheduled increase in supply that's increasingly going down. So you have to look for stores of value that can maintain your purchasing power because government and fiscal and monetary policy is only going in one direction.

Things will always continue to get worse. And we just don't see any assets. class that can protect purchasing power better than Bitcoin. Daniel and James, hey, guys, great, great stuff. Thank you for, as we call it in the business, stretching because we had the Trump thing. You guys got like 20 minutes of air time because of that. So appreciate you being flexible. They could have built an hour.

Smart guys. They could have. And you kind of just have these guys there. And you're like, oh, is Daniel still there and James still there? Because I've got to ask them questions. So all right. Coming up, a rare hire week for United Health is some executive step in to buy the beaten up stock, but does that mean that you should buy it too? We're back after this.

Crypto Watch is sponsored by crypto.com. Crypto.com is America's premier crypto platform. The president wrap up some comments. I believe he talked about Apple. Amon Javvers, he, Amon, you know what the president was saying. What just happened? Yeah, Brian, that's right. I was in the Oval Office with the president and other reporters just a short time ago. The president continuing to express frustration. here with the European Union saying that they're not moving fast enough on issues that he cares about on trade. And also expressing some frustration with Apple saying that he wants Tim Cook to move production here to the United States.

I asked the President why he's confident that Apple can produce an iPhone in the United States at a price that customers will be able to afford or will want to afford. And the President reiterated his belief that that is a possible thing economically and said with technology and computers the way they are. Apple should be able to make an economically competitive iPhone here in the United States. We've got a little bit of sound here from what the president said about Apple a short time ago in the Oval. Let's play it. And Mr. President, on Apple, you said this morning that if they don't make their iPhones in the U.S., you're going to hit them with a 25% tariff. Do you have the power to tariff one single company?

And why would you want to hurt an American company in that way? It would be more. It would be also Samsung and anybody that makes that product. otherwise it wouldn't be fair. So anybody that makes that product, and that'll start on, I guess, at the end of June, it'll come out. I think we have that appropriately done by the end of June. So if they make that product, now, again, when they build their plant here, there's no tariff.

So they're going to be building plants here. But I had an understanding with him that he wouldn't be doing this. He said he's going to India to build plants. I said, that's okay to go to India, but you're not going to sell into you without tariffs. and that's the way it is. What makes a confidence that Apple can build in the United States at a price in American consumer?

Oh, they can. No, they can. A lot of it's so computerized. Now, these plants are amazing if you look at them, but they can do that. And actually, as you know, Apple's coming in with $500 billion. So are the chip companies.

We have all of the chip companies coming in. The biggest, $500 billion, $200 billion, $200 billion, $200 billion, $200 billion. $150 billion they're spending. But we're talking about the iPhone now. And, you know, the iPhone, if they're going to sell it in America, I want it to be built in the United States. They're able to do that.

When you say that Walmart should eat the cost. And one funny moment there, Brian, as the president was talking about iPhones, the phone on the resolute desk in front of him rang. And he looked over and picked it up, and he said it was a congressman calling him. But he said, I asked him, was that an iPhone that just rang? He said it was. So as he's talking about iPhones, he's on the iPhone. iPhones are ubiquitous in American society and ubiquitous in the Oval Office as well, Brian.

Yeah, you wonder who the congressman was. And I have to say, I just wonder what the number was that he was calling. Well, that's what I was going to say. The fact that the President of United States literally just has a phone there, it's cool. It's maybe a little troubling. We've had some security issues you might have heard about lately with signal and stuff, Aeman. He had, yeah, he had two iPhones on the desk in front of him. Two, that's a flex.

Amen, Javre. Amen, thank you very much. All right, so you had Trump's signing the executive order on nuclear energy. We was talking about Apple just there, but the EO on nuclear was a big deal. Coming up, Joe Dominguez, the CEO of huge power producer, Constellation Energy based just up 95 in Baltimore. He will join us as well. A lot going on. It's fluid.

Markets down a touch. We're back right after this. Trump's signing executive orders to try to boost U.S. nuclear energy moments ago in the White House. Nuclear energy-related stocks are all higher on the news, everything from uranium producers to nuclear producers to Constellation Energy. And Constellation, based in Baltimore, is the largest nuclear operator in the United States. And joining us now for an exclusive interview from the White House is Joe Dominguez. He is the CEO of Constellation Energy. Joe, we really appreciate it.

We know it's a very fluid day. You're busy. Thanks for stepping out. What exactly does this EO do and how will it help Constellation? Well, it's not just one EO, Brian. It's a bunch of them. And it helps workforce development. It helps create an improved fuel chain here in the United States. We have to rely too much on foreign sources for uranium and enrichment services.

It creates a partnership with the U.S. military to cite new reactors and to develop the reactors of the future. And most importantly, from my perspective, it starts to reduce the regulatory burden that costs us time in the development and the operation of nuclear plants. So this is a huge day. If you wanted to build a new nuclear power plant somewhere in America, say Maryland, right, where you're based, just throwing that out there. And tomorrow you said, let's do it. How long would it take and how much would it cost between you deciding to do it and the day the power? switch is turned on. Well, that's a very good question because it actually gets to one of the things the EEO attempts to fix. Look, the first thing that we have to do is go get a site permit. And in getting

that site permit, the question they ask is, can you have a nuclear power plant at this particular site, which makes complete sense. Except in the case of the plants at Maryland, we've already been doing that for four decades. We've had plants there. So why are we asking again, whether the geology is right, whether the location is right for nuclear. We know it, but we have to waste $35 million and tons of time just to get that permit. And each step along the way, we have regulatory burdens that in the grand scheme of things make no sense and extend that period of time. In answer to your question, it could take up to a decade to get that plant built up and running. But the big part of it is a lot of permitting work that slows the whole process down,

makes it more expensive because the loans that we have are burning up interest dollars during that whole period of time. Faster we could get through the regulatory process, the more we could eliminate redundant steps or unnecessary steps, the faster we could get the reactors on. That's what these EOs do. Yeah, I mean, Joe Allen Armstrong, who said William's CEO, said on our air in the last couple days that his company spends more money on the permitting than he does for the steel in a modern pipeline. I mean, you talked about a decade. You talked about it's a lot of money. Does this

EO actually really change that? Or is it just the hope that it will change it? I think we're still trying to determine how far this can actually go. Well, look, I think it's direction to the NRC to get going. Stop talking to talk and start walking the walk. And they've done a good bit of that. You know, this is an abrupt change. Under Chairman Hansen, the prior chair, we had already started this pathway. This will accelerate it fairly dramatically with a timetable for compliance to start to eliminate these regulations that don't make sense. If we do that, then this is going to work. You know, Joe, I am wondering sort of what your discussions have been with the Trump administration up to this point. Clearly, you were in the room when it was signed. I mean,

is the president taking calls from CEOs like you that have real concerns about things that can actually get done? Is there an open phone line to the president? to make business better in this country? You know, the president's got a lot on his plate. I don't think he is prioritizing a telephone call for me, but he's done something better. He's connected me with Secretary Bergam, Secretary Wright. They've created this energy dominance council.

And what that is doing is allowing one forum for all of industry, all of the stakeholders involved, to provide their best ideas. NRC too, right? A lot of these ideas that were, talking about were generated within the agency of things we could do if we put our mind to it. The Energy Dominance Council has put this together, then we get an EO and a direction to start implementing it. So I think the line of communication has been intense with the administration,

albeit not with the president for obvious reasons, given everything he's doing. Nuclear is safe, but when things go wrong, they tend to go really wrong. And I know the nuclear power plants of today are not built like the power plants of yesterday, but there is a collective memory. People remember the images, Joe. So how do we assure people they're safe? Number one. And number two, do you have the people, the intellectual know-how to do this, given that so many workers in the nuclear industry have indeed aged out? Well, look, we've done a very good job of transitioning that talent to a new workforce. So, Do we have the people you bet we do?

Can America do it? It already has done it. We were the leaders in nuclear for forever. We gave it up for a period of time. It's not going to be that hard to get it back. We just have to have the intentionality about going ahead and doing that. That's what these CEOs drive. That's what this entire environment is driving.

There is probably no more popular from a bipartisan standpoint, resource in America today, than nuclear. Both Democrats and Republicans like. And as to your question about safety, Brian, you should know that the World Health Organization routinely scores the safest technologies. And nuclear comes out at the very top. You know, we've had more people fall off rooftops and die putting on solar panels than we've ever lost in radiological incidents in the nuclear industry. We have a great track record, and we've improved that track record dramatically. Where one forgets it? Where did we get that powerful stat? Where did we go wrong?

I mean, maybe you don't want to go there, Joe, but like, we went wrong somewhere. We had the biggest lithium mine in the world, okay, in North Carolina. We closed it down. They're trying to reopen it now. I know it's not your mind or your world, but you get the broader point. Somewhere along the line, we were like the leaders in nuclear. I grew up near Sanofrey nuclear power plant. Great surfing, by the way, right near there.

It's shut down. And there was this massive anti-nuclear campaign for 20 years. We shut down the world's lithium mine. Why did we make these mistakes? You know why, Brian, I think. Sometimes we democratize things like energy and we do a popularity contest instead of exploring what do these different resources do. And for a significant period of time, there was a big cross-section of the American politic that didn't like nuclear. Environmental organizations cut their teeth on fighting nuclear. And then we had to deal with climate.

And all of a sudden we said, oh my goodness, this is the biggest source of reliable clean energy. will ever have. And that started pulling people back. But we made the mistake of making this a popularity contest first and foremost. And we can't do that. We need to have the experts weigh in. Affordability, reliability, clean, all of those things come together with nuclear. That's why it's popular today among the people that count, the experts. Well, Joe Dominguez, Constellation Energy, literally like Hamilton, in the room where it happened. We do appreciate you. stepping out on the White House lawn. Let's get back to your actual job.

Joe, thank you very much. Great to see you, Brian. Take care. Take care. Well, a rare hire week for United Health as some execs step in to buy the beaten-down stock. We'll discuss what it means for shareholders. That's next. Talk United Health.

Jeff Jonas, the portfolio manager, Gobelly Funds. Jeff, thanks for being flexible, by the way. He's supposed to be on about 20 minutes ago. You were a buyer of United Health stock last week. Why? We think the problems are fixable. They definitely mispriced the Medicare Advantage business for this year, but they're getting a generous 5% plus rate increase for 2026, and they get the chance to redesign all their benefits, their co-pays, their out-of-pocket costs, and kind of reset their margin profile for next year. When it comes to health insurance, I'm just often thinking I'm employed by a big company.

I don't get to choose who my insurer is. Is there any kind of protection in that? There are the country's largest insurer. I may not be happy with United. I'm not saying I am or I am not, but it's not usually up to me. Well, the beauty of Medicare Advantage is you get to shop around every year. So there are a wide variety of choices. There's brokers and navigators that help you choose, that help you review your prescriptions and your doctor. If you're on the Medicare Advantage plan.

So you can make changes every year and try to find the plan that's best for you. How much do you, your job, you're paid to worry. You're paid to invest, but you're also paid to worry, Jeff. There's got to be still headline risk around this stock. How much do you worry about another shoe that could potentially? It may not, but what if it does? Yeah, I think everyone's been surprised by the negative reaction ever since the tragedy in December. I mean, everyone's really piled on the health insurers.

I know we all hit them. Well, the CEO did step quit out of the blue, like literally walked away from $23 million. Yeah, I think that was a combination of bad performance and fallout from this tragedy back in December. I think he got a little bit burned out. I do think Stephen Hemsley's the right guy to turn it around, and I think we'll see better results next year. I mean, to Brian's point about headline risk, it seems like they are being the poster child for what Americans are frustrated with when it comes to health care. And it doesn't seem like journalists are going to stop looking into some things that they are being accused of. I mean, how much is that shaved off the stock and how much do you think that could be worth as a sale price that someone could get into and make some money when those things even out?

Well, I think they do need to spend a lot more time and money on their public relations effort. they've been pretty responsive. They've actually lowered co-pays for insulin. They've been trying to eliminate prior authorizations and a lot of the more burdensome aspects of health insurance. But there's definitely a lot more to do, especially in response to all the negative press that they're getting. All right.

Well, a little bit of positive press here from a fund manager, Jeff Jonas Cabelli Fund's position adding to it last week. Thank you for your flexibility and patience, by the way, Jeff. Have a good weekend. Yeah, thank you. After the break, guess what? It's a long holiday weekend. Let's talk movies. Let's have some fun. Dan Lurie is here. That's next.

I got breaking news on Boeing. The Justice Department says it has reached an agreement in principle with Boeing that would allow Boeing to avoid criminal prosecution in regards to the fraud case stemming from two fatal Boeing 737 max airplane crashes. The DOJ says it expects to file the written agreement with Boeing by the end of the week should be viewed as good news. I wouldn't be surprised to see the stock move higher. It's not right now. It's down 4 tenths of one percent. But I probably some good news, legal news for Boeing. Yeah, they need some of that. Well, Memorial Day weekend is always a big one as the start of the summer movie season. Tonight, Paramount and Skydance's Mission Impossible. The Final Reckoning and Disney's live action, Lilo and Stitch, both officially released.

And what our next guest believes will be a record-breaking weekend for the domestic box office. Here on set with us is Daniel Loria. He is SBP of Content Strategy at Box Office Media. Daniel, thanks so much from being here with us today. Very busy news day. Again, we've got a big weekend of sort of sequels or things that we've seen before, not exactly sequels, I guess. But you think it's going to do well.

Listen, you twist on things we've seen before, right? You've seen a number of Mission Impossible movies? Not one like this one. There's some great stunts in the second half. I can't wait for moviegoers to discover. All real, too. Like Tom Cruise is doing this stuff himself. Ageless.

The guy's going to do this forever, apparently. Why is Pedro Pascal in every movie? Great actor. I don't know. He literally is in four movies. I don't actually know how he is... Does he have a twin? Are there four Pedro Pascal?

Hey, he's getting solid work. You know, no complaints here. Great actor. And listen, talking about all the movies coming out, this weekend, as we've been mentioning, we're looking at potentially a record Memorial Day weekend, beating 2013's record. Right now we're looking at maybe up to $350 million for the holiday frame. And why is that just because you think these movies are compelling? Because it's going to be poor weather.

The weather's trash. I mean, but that can help, certainly. Hey, supply and demand. I'm in the right network for this one, right? Last year, at this point, we had 34 wide-release movies and theaters. This year, 39. And we have 15 more movies scheduled for wide release this year alone than we had last year. Now that we've got the supply coming in after the pandemic, after the strikes,

we're going to see the box office really rebound to, I think, around $9.5 billion dollars domestically this year? I mean, what is the outlook, really, when you're looking at going to the movies? I mean, we're all into experiences as consumers, right? But then again, we all have these streaming devices that we can just sit on our couch and our pajamas. Listen, Lilo and Stidge is a great example of what that power is. Sure.

If you've got a holiday weekend and you've got kids at home, you're going to pay the premium to go to the movies, and it's an affordable premium. When you look at movie going, it's one of the most accessible, both in a chance to go, anywhere in the country, and then price around the country of any top-tier entertainment destination. That's still relevant for a lot of folks. Brad Pitt is, what, 60 years old, 61 years old? Doesn't matter. He can, thanks.

He can play like a 40-year-old in this new Formula One movie. It's unbelievable. How is this movie going to do? Because it's expensive. It's a big risk, right? Especially for Apple that's behind this. Formula One driver's investing in the movie, by the way. And Formula One has.

had some great growth here in the United States over recent years. This is a global play for both Apple that's producing the film and Warner Brothers is distributing internationally. We'll see how it goes once we get the late June. Are you optimistic on it? Yeah, I mean, I'm a huge F1 fan. Checo Perez, my favorite driver. I wish he comes back soon. I'll settle for Brad Pitt this summer. Sorry. I was whispering he's not coming. I saw. I can read lips to a degree. Anyway, thank you. No, it's a risk, and I'm going to give Brad Pitt a lot of credit. The dude is 60 and looks 40, and he's a handsome 40. Hey, he's going to last for many years.

You see Tom Cruise still doing these stunts. Don't count them out. You know, Pedro Pascal still got some juice in that tank. Don't count about, though. You said he's done. This is the last mission impossible, at least. They say with the amount of money it's making. Yeah, with the amount it's money it's making right now for Paramount, ahead of a potential.

The ageless Thomas Map. of Glenridge, New Jersey High School. That's his actual name. Cool. Thanks for what. Daniel, thank you very much. That's an RBI. It is an RBI.

Thanks for watching. Power Lunch, everybody. Closing bell starts right now.