Predictive History - The Story of "Civilization", "Secret History", "Game Theory" and more - Dante #8: Hell Cantos 20-32

Episode Date: August 22, 2026

Watch on YouTube: https://link-to-youtube.s.gy/dante08

Okay, good morning. Welcome back. So there are a couple of outstanding issues from last class that I would like to address. So Carol's son, who is here, he had a question about, what is difference between pride and ego? And this is a very hard question. Okay. So first, let's see about thinking about.

what the ego is. So in the cabala tradition, and the cabala tradition is very much influenced by the divine comedy. If you learn the cabala and you read the divine comedy, you see a lot of similarities, and these are not coincidental. But in the cabala tradition, there is divine spark in everyone, but it's covered by the husk. Okay. The husk, you can say it's the body, it's the ego, But for the Kabbalah tradition, the ego is basically just a body and desire to fulfill the body, which means material pleasures. So in the Kabbalah tradition, that's what the ego means. Dante doesn't see it that way. For Dante, the ego is really the divine spark.

Okay. in that it can propel us to good things and to bad things. So it's potentiality as opposed to just good or bad, okay? It's potentiality. And the ego can lead us astray. And when it leads us to astray, it's because of pride. Okay? And so for Dante, pride is an issue because it wants you, it wants the other egos to subordinate to your ego.

All right? So it's one of superiority, a feeling of superiority, where you are above others. And for Donnie, that's a problem because that limits your access to God. Okay, love is about equality. It's about being eotarian and treating others with respect and trusting others. And the ego, the pride, it's about elevating yourself above others. And the classic example of pride in Divine Comedy is Virgil, right? Virgil.

Okay, so that's the difference for, in most religious traditions, There's really, they don't really separate the two. Ego is pride. But for Dante, there is a difference. Ego is potentiality. It's possibility. And pride is a perversion of the ego. Okay?

The ego should lead, should lead you towards faith, hope, and love. And with the ego, you could not actually go on this path. But if you go on the wrong path, it leads you to pride. Okay. And again, in the divine calm, even though it's not explicit, it, Virgil is the manifestation, the expression of pride. And we can see that in his actions, where he, but it will become more obvious as we go along, okay?

So that's the first issue. Does it make sense to everyone? Second issue is the issue of homosexuality, okay? And this is an issue, this is an issue, that raised concerns. So one question that I was asked yesterday is, okay, what's the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality? Okay, so thank you for raising that question.

And I went back and I thought about this. And even though my explanation, it's okay, it's not truthful enough. Because the way for us to understand truth is Occam's razor. Okay, Occam's Razor is the idea of elegance. Meaning I should be very, I should be able to pretty simply and clearly explain the idea. And I was not able to do that yesterday. It raised a lot of questions.

It raised a lot of doubts. So even though we were approaching the truth, we were not at the truth. So let me today try to more clearly and simply explain the problem of homosexuality, okay? And so, yesterday I made things a bit complicated. I brought in the idea of incest, and that was very confusing. Okay, let's not do that. Let's just like stick with Dante. So with Dante, the key of understanding him is to first appreciate the punishment at work, okay?

Because for Dante, the punishment is God's perfect justice. Okay, so we need to understand the punishment first. And the punishment for these homosexuals is they are in a plane where there's raining missiles on them, okay? And so they have to dodge these missiles. For homosexuals, they have to do it in a group. Okay? They have to do it in a group. And if one of them, straight from the group, that person is punished harder.

Now, this is interesting to think about because why would homosexuals be punished in such a manner? Okay. So now we think about, let's not think about what they did wrong, but if the punishment is you have to stick together as a group and you're being punished as a group. If you fall away from the group, you're punished even harder. What kind of people should be punished like that, right? If we knew what the punishment is and we understand that these punishments are reflection of God's for your justice, then what kind of people? What did you do wrong? in society that would make God punish you like this. Yes? They think they're like superior to the society as a general. Like they feel like they're entitled. So they feel like they're above like the normal people. Good.

Okay. So that's getting somewhere. Okay. But again, what do they do wrong? That sounds like pride. But why are they being punished as a group? Yes? you know maybe

homosexual things is kind of group just for male or for female so if in that case the male they don't need a female and female also don't need

a male too so maybe they they're enemy each other right right let's not think about like their homosexuals I'm saying what kind of people

would deserve the sort of punishment yes in that conception people who are super self-centered you want to force them to be in a group

and think as a group okay That makes sense. Okay. Yeah, people were too selfish and so they have to work together. But they're not working together, they're not working together, they're being punished together. Right?

So basically it's the idea of factionalism, right? Or mafia or fraternity. Does that make sense? Because the idea of fraternity, the idea of mafia, the idea of factionalism is that you only care about your own group. And you're going to hurt others in order to achieve your own interests. And that's why they're being punished like this. So now, if it's these people who are engaged in mafia or fraternity or factionalism that should be punished like this, what does this have to do with homosexuality?

Okay? That's a question. And again, this should be clear, right? So make sure that my logic is clear to you each step of the way. The punishment is they're being punished for factionalism. The question then is, what does this have to do with homosexuality? Okay. Yes?

No coming back. So like, say me in the mafia, you act in some way and then you're part of the mafia forever. And we could see the same pattern in homosexuality. Right. Have you guys heard something called the gay mafia? Pick mafia, gay mafia? Okay. These are people who control Hollywood, right?

If you go to Hollywood, they're like, we're controlled by the pick mafia, the gay mafia. All right. So let me explain this. Okay. All right. So an ideal society, everyone should rise according to his or her individual merit, right? In an ideal society. That's what Donnie believes.

Like, it doesn't matter what faction you are. It doesn't matter where your family comes from. It doesn't matter. All that matters is your individual merit. That's what's ideal. But in reality, the people who often triumph are people who are able to conspire together. Right? So the question then is, how are homosexuals able to conspire together? Okay. So, and the reason why is they're often persecuted by society, so they have to work in secret.

Okay? And so they help each other in order to obtain success. And they're not doing it out of evil or malice. They're doing it just to be able to love each other. Okay? And so that's why, if you just look at history, if you look at any bureaucracy in any society, the group of people who often climb highest in this bureaucracy tend to be homosexuals. Doesn't make sense. Okay? And you go back to Imperial China, the Unix, right?

Sorry, you go to the Vatican, right? You go to Washington, D.C. you're to Hollywood. It's usually homosexuals that climb to the top. Again, this is not being, I'm not saying this is evil, but like just so that they can practice

your love for each other. They have to work together. Okay? And they have to help each other. And so they become a mafia, right? The pink mafia, the gay mafia. And, but because the mafia, they're able to climb higher together.

Because they're able to coordinate together secretly in a way. that others are not able to. Doesn't make sense. Yes? Could this be linked to your previous ideas by breaking typo, like, a problem is generated?

Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes? And that also explains why if one breaks away, then he's punished harder because he's breaking the vow to the group and the secret that he had to.

Exactly. Exactly. Right. Exactly. Thank you very much. And the other issue is, okay, like, why can heterosexuals do this?

Because if you're a heterosexual, heterosexual, you marry a woman, right? And the woman demands that only you are loyal to her. Whereas with gay lovers, you can share with others, right? You can expand the group in a way you can't expand the group with you were heterosexual. That doesn't make sense. All right? Are you guys following this logic?

Okay. Now the question then is, like, why would this be a bad thing? Now, the reason why is that if a certain group are able to amass more powerful themselves, right, this forces other people to form their own factions. Does it make sense in order to compete? You have no choice in the matter. Right? So now you have more factionalism going on.

All right. And so now what happens is that the elite fight amongst themselves because it's factional politics now. And when they lead fights, fight amongst themselves, what they're doing is they're monopolizing all resources for themselves, which creates more inequality, right, in society. If you don't have a faction, when most people don't have a faction, you're completely screwed. And so there's this massive inequality, which creates all this economic pressure. And the only way for you to respond, if you're an ordinary person, a faction is to commit fraud, right? And then what happens is lawlessness takes place. So that's why Don Hay's concerned about homosexuality.

He knows that, yes, these best and brightest are homosexuals. And for him, there's something wrong with homosexuality. It's what homosexuality leads to society. That's a problem. And Donny is right. If you just look at any society, okay, with a bureaucracy, eventually the homosexuals take over. And this creates factionism, this creates moral decay, this creates lawlessness, this creates corruption.

All right? So does this make sense now? Yes? Sorry, I still don't understand why homosexuality is able to form factions while heterosexuality cannot. Okay, all right. So let me explain this again, okay? Wait, or you want to, yes? Yeah, because I'm thinking of the symmetry between, uh,

inferno 16, was it 16, and Paradisio 16. Because in theory, in Paradisio 16, we're also talking about factions. Yeah. But I guess the core lesson that I think if I remember back on Paradisio 16 was that

there was a line, there was a concept where it says like the individual should serve the family instead of the family making that individual noble. Yeah. You get what I mean? So bringing it back to Inferno 16, right, with, I don't know if it's homosexuality or self-indulgence of self-centricness, but the idea of, you know, cases where I observe people with homosexual tendencies tending to rise

is because they're able to harness the power of the group to serve them. Yes. Right? By, you know, by withholding participation. So in my mind, that kind of makes sense and is elegant. Okay, all right, okay. Okay, so, so, so let, let me explain another way, okay? Um, homosexuals are able to have multiple lovers.

That's not a problem for them, right? Do you understand this idea? I feel like, like, love is still love. Okay, so with heterosexuals, if you let someone, you get married, right? a marriage is a compact between two people and only two people and if you bring another person like a mistress well that breaks the bond do you understand

yes I think for female homosexuals are lesbians they are more committed to one-on-one relationship but if it's like male homosexuals then it's completely different so it's a different game it's like you could have multiple lovers that it's okay so I think that's why it's hard for you as a girl to understand yeah okay so yeah okay thank you yes yes if you're a woman and someone loves you right you want that you want that to be a one-on-one thing right whereas if you're a man you don't really care so so you're able to have like a large um network of male lovers and again like if you

just like look at any history whether it's Washington DC or Hollywood I mean like it's pretty common, okay? Yes. And I think it's not just about like being being a homosexual, it's about like having a same region so you can like assemble a group of people together like secret society and

it follows the same logic, right? To infiltrate the bureaucracy. Yeah, no, I don't think the intention is evil. I just think they want to, they just want to like be homosexuals, right? Because that's what gives them happiness. But to do so because they're so heavily persecuted

by others, they have no choice but to become a secret society. Okay? Yes? And I also have heard that in homosexual society, the people, they got their, some people that got their right to have more lovers, but some people don't have the right to get. And some people play it in the male role and some people play in the female role. So this is kind of hierarchy order in the homosexual, you know, sincerity like that.

Right. Yes. Okay. Yes. Yeah, so, well, we're talking about like back then gay marriage or homosexuality was more like persecuted, but nowadays more accepted, right? So, for example, like when you look at Tel Aviv or like this, like, for example, also the middle class people are more open and are homosexual and they're not really like about taking power or like trying to throw. society. Right. So this is what Donne is saying here. A society is rising. Society is focused on expanding society, on family, on merits.

A lot of social policies are centered around the family. But once society has become decadent, then the elite don't really care about society. All they care about is indulging in their own desires. And they want to feel good about themselves. And they really don't care about the impact on society. So if you look at today, yes, there is openness and acceptance, but at the same time, the level of political corruption, it is just incredible the level of political corruption. Okay, not just, like they looked at Washington, D.C., where the Trump family is just engaged in the most egregious corruption. And they're not even hiding it, okay?

They're just open about it. They're like, you know, if you give me, if you're in prison, you give me like, you know, $10 million, I'll let you out. It's open, okay? Now, let me ask you this, okay? Let's imagine Donald Trump, he's kicked out of office in 2028. The Democrats come in. What are they going to do? Yes?

Put him in prison? They'll probably put him in prison, and then what are they going to do? It's going to purge his family. Excuse me? It's going to purge his family. Perge the Trump family. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They'll go after Trump, but then what are they going to do?

Ask for a ransom. They'll probably be even worse, okay? Do you understand? They'll say, you know, like, when we come in, we'll clean house and we'll restore the sanctity of the American Republic. No, they're not. When they come in, they'll engage even more corruption. Okay? So, so that's what Donnie is saying here.

Like, when the elite lose their sense of responsibility to the people, then society just becomes, it loses its anchor, it just goes into free fall. Okay? And, yes, I mean, I don't want to say homosexuality is bad, but the reason why people kept homosexuality hidden before was they had to pay virtue of the family, right? They have to pretend at least the family was important. Yeah, I mean, like, they probably had these homosexual affairs on the side, but at least they were hypocrites.

At least they made a point of like playing to the public perception, right? Yes? Yeah, what about LGBT? Do you think denting will agree with that? It's the same thing as homosexuality, right? There's no difference. You know, it's the same idea. It's the same sense of like self-indulgence and what matters is my own pleasure.

my own happiness, and I really don't care the impact on society, okay? That doesn't make sense, guys. All right. So, again, what we're doing is we're trying to logically come to understand Dante's cosmology. Okay? All right. So, but again, I want to thank you guys for raising questions for doubting, for challenging, because this helps us as a group to think much more deeper.

okay so Dante implants in the mind common a lot of paradoxes which allows us to think deeper and we are we are able to write that the truth through exploration and through debate okay yes I think one thing that would be worth exploring is to actually interview you know maybe people around us who are homosexuals you know what what exactly Dante is trying to convey here because I guess at the end of the day all punishment is self-punishment right it's it's a it's an internal loop right i think the answers would be in in in in those individuals just asking just you know maybe trying to learn more okay um so um a couple comments um first of all this is being live streamed and we need to be conscious of protecting people's privacy okay um but yes i think that

if we were to share our stories more, this would help the discussion. But the constraint is that this is being live stream. And the other thing is that because it's being live stream and because we're dealing with different contexts, we're in China, we're broadcasting a global audience, you know, we are at the Yale Beijing Center. We need to be conscious of the cultural sensitivities of each place, okay?

And, look, censorship is a reality in this world. Ideally, we'll be free to complete explore, and that's what leads to good as true, but we're living in a time of massive censorship and where you'll be judged unfairly for things you say. This is the different time. I mean, when I was growing up, When we weren't college, like free speech was the primary ideal.

Like, it's something like you don't do that to people. Like you may disagree with them, but you don't censure them. That was what's considered a sin. Now it's just very common practice to cancel people for things they say. People are judged very harshly. Yes? So I actually had this question yesterday as well. So what about those people who purposefully chose not to have kids?

because in some ways, they're also blocking social mobility, just like the homosexuals in a certain way. But they're not depicted in, like, anywhere in the Divine Comedy. And how would Donnie feel about these people who don't have kids? Like, if they chose not to have kids, I feel like in some ways it's, like, similar to, like, the homosexuals. So I feel like he should have, like, a similar feeling. Well, okay. Okay, well, here's a question then, okay. In the Catholic Church, what kind of people are most revered?

Yeah. Yeah. Right? That's a problem. Monks and not yet. Yeah, go ahead. And also you have to take in the time back then in the 14th century. There's probably no condoms. And so there's no way like you said that I want to choose to be not having kids if I'm married. It's not usually an option unless you're a priest obviously you're not married in the first place. So then for Dante's hard to understand they are married couples who choose and you know, could could not have kids. So then that's why maybe it's not in the, you know, listed here. It's not an option back then.

And also like if you're a woman, okay, if you had a free will, you probably would not want to get married. Why? That doesn't want to know? Yeah? Because if you give birth, there's one third of a chance or more. Yeah, guys. Do you understand how often it was to be a woman back then? There were no condoms. There was no hygiene.

There were no hospitals. one third chance of dying in childbirth, right? It's like suicide. And like quite honestly, like you were expected to give birth a lot, right? It's like eight kids. The first one-third doesn't hit you. Yes, it's very common for a woman to die at childbirth at this time. So including, including Beatrice,

Beatrice died giving birth at 24, at 24, right? So, so, so, so, so, so, so, yeah. Okay. Any more questions before we, we move on? So in my research of Aristotelian telios, like, have you just, I missed yesterday afternoon. So did you discuss the telios? Like everything has a specific purpose in life. And I see the difference between lust and homosexuality because they're on separate levels as being like, lust you're focusing on one thing, one thing perhaps the correct thing, right?

because if Augustine and Dante would be saying the purpose of a relationship would be reproduction and marriage, if you're lusting, that could happen. You're just wanting it in maybe an incorrect way or too much. But in homosexuality, the telios is off because there is no reproduction that could happen. And so I see this as, or I don't see this, I'm reading scholars who are pointing out. that homosexuality is just simply enough an incorrect telios and lust is a correct telios but at an incorrect proportion and so all of this extra stuff might be fine and social it just seems like muddying the waters where aristotelian understanding would simplify it

okay so that you've been on aristotle and that that's a very interesting analysis at this time aristotle is very popular and dante would have known Aristotle, he would have known the idea of Tilos, the idea of Tilos is purpose, right? You come here for purpose and you achieve happiness by achieving your Tilos. And on that idea, Dante would agree.

But for Aristotle, Tilos is really about fulfilling your social responsibility. Whereas for Dante, he's very much an individualist, meaning like for

telos is about fulfilling yourself okay now um their statements would say there's really no difference but uh for Dante there is a major difference right one the difference is between fulfilling people's expectation of your telos

as to number two really understanding your telos and achieving your telos okay and so basically what the air's say is, look, society knows what's best. If society says you should go have children, then that's your telos. But what Donnell would say, no, no, no, you trust your intuition, right?

If your telos is like, I just want to approach you for the rest of my life and I don't have children, then you should just follow your intuition. Okay? So that's a difference. But you absolutely right, Aristotle is very important at this time in history. All right, any more comments or questions? This is great, by the way. and it really shows your depth of understanding has radically improved over the past few days, yes?

Like previously you said that any great art in the history, whether it's Homer or Divine Comedy, was often created by one single person, right? And it's often driven by the strong wheel. and and uh but like i think uh like go back to the question of about like self-indulgence but like there also can be a like those narcissists can also hold a strong will right while being like self-indulgent so what separate a artist like sacred inwardness with uh to a Okay, all right. So yesterday, I did say the problem of homosexuality is self-indulgence, and I recognize that is incorrect, okay? That's why I went back and I self-reflected and I came

over a new understanding. And in this new understanding, the problem isn't self-indulgence, the problem is factionalism. Okay? So Donne is not saying self-indulgence is a problem. Why is a problem? Self-indulgence is not a problem. You need a bit of self-love. You need a bit of ego if you are to achieve or create a great piece of art, okay? All right. All right. Great. Any more questions before we start?

Okay. Let's start. Inferno 21. Canto 21. We came along from one bridge to another talking of things my comedy is not concerned to sing. We held fast to the summit, then stayed our steps to spy the other cleft of Meloboge and other vain laments. I saw that it was wonderfully. dark as in the arsenal of the venetians all winter long a stew of sticky pitch boils up to patch their sick

and tattered ship that cannot sail instead of voyaging some built new keels some toe and tar the ribs of all worn out by too much journey some hammer at the prow some at the stern and some make oars and some braid ropes and cords one mends the jib and other the main sail so not by fire but by the art of God below there boiled a thick and tarry mass that covered all the banks with clammyness. I saw it, but I could not see within it. No thing was visible but boiling bubbles, the swelling of the pitch, and then it settled. And while I washed below attentively, my guide called out to me, Take care, take care. And then from where I stood, he drew me near. I turned around as one who's impatient to see what he should shun, but is dashed down beneath the terror he has undergone.

who does not stop his flight, and yet would look, and then in back of us I saw a black demon as he came racing up the cracks. Ah, he was surely barbers to see, and how relentless seemed to me his axe. His wings were open, and his feet were light. Across his shoulder, which was sharp and high, he had slung a sinner upward from the thighs. In front, the demon gripped him by the ankles. Then from our bridge he called,

O Melo Branchier, I've got an elder of Saint's Vita for you. Shuff this one under. I'll go back for more. His city is well furnished with such stores there. Everyone's a grafter but Bonturo. And there for cash, they'll change a no to yes. He threw the sinner down that wheeled along the stony cliff. No mastiff ever been unleashed with so much haste to chase a thief. The sinner plunged then surfaced, black with pitch,

but now the demons from beneath the bridge shouted. The sacred face has no place here. Here, we swim differently than in this circuit. If you don't want to feel our grappling hoax, don't try to lift yourself above that ditch. They pricked him with a hundred prongs and more and then taunted. Here one dances under cover, so try to grab your secret graft below. Okay, all right.

So we are in the circle of fraud where everyone lies and deceives and steals. And here, this is the punishment for grapters, people who engage in corruption and graft. And the example being used is this priest who obviously is engaging in simony. And their punishment is to basically fester in boiling excrement. And some of them feel the pain so much that they try to escape. They try to escape and then the demons catch them and tear them and tear them apart. And that is their punishment, okay?

All right, let's come on going. Line 55. The demons did the same as any cook who has his urchins force to meet with hooks deep down into the pot that it not float. Then my good master said to me, don't let those demons see that you're here take care to crouch behind the cover of a crag. No matter what offense they offer me, don't be afraid. I know how these things go. I'll have to face such proxas before. When this was said, he moved beyond the bridgehead,

and on the sixth embankment, he had need to show his imperturbability, with the same frenzy, with the brouhaha of dogs, when they beset a poor wretch who then stops dead in his tracts of Tobeg. So from beneath the bridge, the demons rushed against my guide with all their prongs, but he called out, Can't you forget your savagery before you try to maul me, just let one of your troops step forward, hear me out, and then decide if I'm to be hooked.

At this they howed. Let Malacota go, and one of them moved up. The other stayed, and as he came, he asked, how can he win? A Malacota, do you think I've come? My master answered him. Already armed, as you can see against your obstacles, without the will of God and helpful fate.

Let us move on. It is the will of heaven for me to show this wild way to another. At this the pride of Malacota fell. His prong dropped his feet. He told his fellows, since that's the way things stand. Let us not wound him. My guide then spoke to me. Oh, you who crouched bent low among the bridge of splintered rocks,

you can feel safe and now return to me. Okay, so Dante and Virgil see these demons. Okay? And in this stage in the story, there are some things that are unusual. What's unusual of the story? What is that that's happening that didn't really happen before? What strikes you as strange in this story so far? As, yes?

That demons are the one punishing? Whereas before it was like natural causes? Yes, okay, yeah. So first of all, demons are in charge of the punishment. Yes. But there's a bigger surprise here. And this didn't really happen before. Where's Dante? He's hiding, right? This isn't happened before. This is the first time that Donnie is hiding. So what does this tell us about the emotional state of Virgil? How's he feeling right now? Why would Donnie hide here, but not elsewhere, right? They,

went to the city of this and this was this was also will by fallen angels but don't hide yes I think he starts to lose trust in Virgil and he's afraid of Virgil can't control the demons that he used to but who told Donnie to hide it was Virgil who told Dona to hide right so that doesn't make much sense but keep on going what's going on here yeah Virgil's afraid it's not Donning's afraid it's a Virgil who's afraid okay and so how does Virgil respond to his own fear? What are ways in which you can respond with fear?

To fear, your own fear? How is Virgil responding to his fear? By all right? So either you fight it or you run away from it. So he kind of fights it. He kind of stands up and be like, hey, bring one guy and talk to me and let's see if we can figure this out. Right, okay, yes?

Well, by projecting his fear onto someone else, he kind of can deal with it. Well, because Virgil, I don't know, how can he even feel fear if he's not alive? If he's not even, it's not what I... I don't understand. So he doesn't have a body, but he still has emotions, right? Right. Otherwise, how could you be punished in hell?

If you have absolutely no emotions, you can't feel any punishment, right? So you still have emotions, right? How does Virgil choose to confront the demons? right versus are afraid of the demons so what does he do to deal with the demons there's a higher power protecting me so don't touch me yeah right he's flexing he's being arrogant right so to deal with his fear he's choosing to be proud and arrogant before the demons okay and the demons sense his pride and they lower themselves to Virgil, okay? Does that make sense? The logic here?

Virgil's afraid and he doesn't really know how to control the situation. So his first instinct is to protect Dante. And then Virgil goes up and confronts the demons and flexes, right? Says, you know, I'm much stronger than you. Obey me. And demons like, fine, whatever, okay? Right. Why should we be suspicious here of what's going on? Yes?

I have a question because, I remember you said the Virgil should be a master of the hell but why he just freed of demon in this case? Because you're doing factions in hell, right? The thing about hell is like it's like Italy where no one's really in charge and everyone's fighting each other

because of their pride, right? Okay, so he's master of certain parts of hell but not all parts of hell. As you go deeper into hell, he loses control. All right. Okay. Like, if you're a demon and someone is flexing at you, what should your response be? Yeah, like, I can punch you out, man, right?

So this is very suspicious. You know, again, this is a paradox. And whenever there's a paradox, it forces something deeper, right? Why are the demons being so obedient, right? Why are the demons lowering themselves? And so what do you think the answer is? We are in the circle of fraud, guys. Deception, right?

Do you understand? Okay, that's what these demons are. They are engaged in deception. They enjoy deception, right? Does that make sense? And if you are this demon and you're a head demon and you love deception, you think you can deceive Virgil. Why?

Okay. Okay, so let us, um, Think of an example from real life. Okay? All right. Yes? Because by tricking Virgil, you basically mocking God. No, no, no.

I'm trying to figure out how he figured out you can trick Virgil. Yes? Virgil is in Limbo, so he's in a relatively speaking much nicer place than these guys. Okay, all right. All right. So we don't want to overthink things, okay? The solution has to be simple and elegant. So let's just think of a example where, you know, you're with your friend, okay?

And maybe, you know, you go to, and I'm just making this up, okay? You go to Turkey for vacation. And your friend, you know, maybe your friend lives in Turkey and you're going to go visit your friend in Turkey, right? And your friend in Turkey wants to show you a good time. So then your friend takes you to this bazaar, the store, and he's like, you know, like, oh, I know how to haggle. Right? Do you understand? The logic here, right?

And what's the shop? What are you going to do? He's going to see, like, you're with your friend, right? You don't want to lose face. You want to show how much in control you are, right? Doesn't make sense. And so you recognize, oh, it's just. arrogance. It's this pride I can take advantage of. Doesn't make sense. Okay. So, so again, the thing

about literature is you can always apply it to real life and it has to make sense. Okay. Does that make sense, guys? All right? So the demon recognizes, hmm, virtual thinks he's got gone and inside, right? Well, I can probably rip him off now. Right? Because he's so, he's so arrogant. He's so following myself it's easier to trick arrogant people than it's to trick humble people okay doesn't make sense all right uh let's let's keep on going line 88 my guide then spoke to me oh you who crouched bent low but among the bridges splintered rocks you can feel safe and now returned to me at this i moved and quickly came to him the devils had edged forward all of them i feared that they might fail to keep their word

Just so I saw the infantry when they marched out under safe conduct from Caprona. They trembled when they passed their enemies. My body huddled closer to my guide. I did not let the demons out of sight. The looks they cast at us were less than kind. How is Dante feeling right now? Scared. Yeah, he's probably like, this doesn't feel right, okay?

You know, you're at this bizarre, and it's clear the shop owner is going to rip us off. We should be careful, right? But your friend's like, no, I know this guy. We're like, you know, we went to school together. He's going to give me face. He's going to give us a best deal. Okay. All right.

So, Dante is afraid. Kim on going. Line 100. They bent their hooks and shouted to each other. And shall I give it to him on the rump? And all of them replied, Yes, let him have him. But Malakota still in conversation with my good guy, turned quickly to his squadron and said,

Be still, Scarmilione, still. To us, he said, there's no use in going much farther on this ridge because the sixth bridge at the bottom there is smashed to bits. Yet if you two still want to go ahead, move up and walk along this rocky edge nearby, another which will form a path. Five hours from this hour yesterday, 1,266 years. past since that roadway was shattered here. I'm sending ten of mine out there to see if any sinners lifts his head for air. Go with my men. There's no malice in them. Okay. So he's saying that don't keep on going because a bridge was destroyed by Jesus when he came to hell. There's another way. I'm going to send 10 of my men with you. And again, just the idea that he says there is no malice in

them. Like don't do evil. You should be careful, right? Like we won't. trick you, okay? We mean you no harm. That's probably a sign. You should be careful. But again, Virgil is too arrogant to recognize this, okay? Keep on going.

Line 118. Step forward. Aliquino and Calcabrino. He then began to say, and you Cagnato and Babaricia, who can lead the tent? Lillipico and Dragonazzo and Tuski-Cariato and Agathaia Cane and Farfayana.

and Matt Rubicante. Search all around the clammy stew of pitch, keep these two safe and sound till the next bridge that rise without break across the den. Ami, what is it this master that I see? I said, can't we do without company? If you know how to go, I want no escort. If you're just as keen as usual,

can't you see how those demons grind their teeth? Their brows are menacing. They promise trouble. And he to me, I do not want you frightened. Just let them gnash away as they may wish they do it for the wretches boiled in pitch. They turned around along the left-bank, left-hand bank, but first each pressed his tongue between his teeth a signal for their leader, Barbaricia, and he had made a trumpet of his ass.

Okay, so what does Donny do here that he's never done before? Yeah, do you guys see this, okay? He's actually challenging Virgil verbally. Maybe before he had his doubt, right but he kept them secret out of respect for Virgil so why is Donnie doing this why is Donnie challenging Virgil and saying we really shouldn't trust these guys right he's he's now verbally challenging Virgil why excuse me he's afraid of getting tricked okay he's fair yes uh what else isn't Virgil's pride getting in the way here and so Don

Dante is just like, forget about getting the good deal at the bizarre, man. Let's just go. Exactly, right? And what would you do that? I mean, I would do it because of frustration. I would just be like, there's a simpler way. You're making this more complex than it needs to be. Why Dante does it, I don't know.

Okay. Okay. Yes? Well, just as intuition maybe says it. Right, but again, we've been reading the Divine Comedy, and there are lots of cases where Donne doesn't really feel right about this, about this situation, doesn't really speak up, right?

He's afraid, but he doesn't really speak up. And now he, no, no, no does he speak up, but he's actually challenging Virgil says, like, here your intuition may not be correct. Why would he do that? Yes? I think it's basically his literary work is trying to show that maybe he's hinting that he could be better than Virgil

because he's the meek and human, like the humble ones. so you could see the truth more simply to Virgil. So he's trying to show that this is the turning point where I will be, you know, the better poet or the better person in the situation. Okay, all right. Let's think of an example, okay?

So you're in school, and this is primary school, and there's a classmate. And this classmate, you know is cheating. Okay. Okay. Now, there's been some classmates who are going to go up to them and says, hey, I saw you cheating. Don't cheat. Okay. There'll be some other classmates who just ignore this. What's the difference? Who would go up to the cheating student and says, look, you're cheating and the teacher's going to catch you. So maybe you just stop. In what instance, would you, yes? It could be as an act of love. It's an act of love. You understand.

it's an act of love. Because you're putting yourself at risk as well, right? You're putting yourself, when you tell your friend, let's get out of here, right? Not only are you angering your friend's pride, but you might piss off the shop owner as well. It's an act of love. You're putting yourself at risk. Does that make sense? It's not an act of like, I know more than you Virgil, right?

You can't know more than Virgil because Virgil's your guide in hell. It's an act of like Virgil, I love you and I want to protect you as you're protecting me. Okay? So what this is telling us is that what this really, what this journey really is, it's a journey into love where Verde, Don before had tremendous respect for Virgil. But now they're just becoming like very close because all these adventures they're having in, in hell, right? Does that make sense, guys? And so what's really important to understand is not just the cosmology, not just understand Donis theology, but we understand that this is ultimately a journey and a love story between

Dante and Virgil, okay? So there is this conflict between the two, but there's also real deep affection between the two, and it's very much real, okay? And we know what's going to happen. We know that eventually they'll have to part. But the idea is to create so much affection in us for Virgil and Dante that when they do part, we cry with them when they do part. Does that make sense?

All right. Yes? She had said something that I wanted to build off of. Dante, the poet. So there's three Dantes. Dante's the poet, sat down to write this recollection to get, to explain faith, hope, and love, but I guess they could all be unified as capital T truth, and he's in the realm of liars, right? And so essentially he would be like, the longer that we stay

here in the realm of liars, they're ruining my poem of truth. Right. So let's get out of the lie realm, because I'm transcribing truth. Right. Okay. So that's an interesting interpretation, and I would disagree. Um, because, why would what's it important for Donnie to journey into hell right because because why is Donnie talking to these souls

that are being punished to learn to see right but but then what yes because it's the way to paradise um it's yeah it's the way to paradise but remember when Virgil and Donnie are talking right

Virgil says go talk to that guy and then and then the soul's like I don't want to talk to you And then Virgil's like, you should talk to him because... What does Virgil say? What can Dona do for them? Why should they talk to him? Talk to him, yes?

Go back to the world and talk about the consequences of sins. Exactly, okay? Don is going to record this. So it's very important for Donnie to experience as much as he can in hell. It's not about escaping hell. It's about truly understanding hell to share with other people. Okay? And this is the path to truth.

Not to avoid something, but to experience it for yourself. And then that way, that heightens your understanding. Okay. All right. Let's keep on going. This is count of 22, okay? Canto 22. Before this, I've seen horsemen start to march,

and open the assault and muster ranks and seen them too. At times beat their retreat. And, oh, your land, oh, a retinise. I've seen rangers and raiding parties galloping. The clash of tournaments, the rush of joust, now done with trumpets, now with bells, and now with drums and now with signs from castle walls with native things

and with imported wear. But never yet have I seen horsemen or seen infantry or ship that sails by signal of land or star moved to so strange a bugle. We made our way together with ten demons. Ah, what ferocious company! And yet in church with saints with rotters in the tavern.

but I was all intent upon the pitch to seek out every feature of the pouch and of the people who were burning in it. Just as the dolphins do, when with arched back, they signal to the semen to prepare for tempest that their vessel may be spared. So here, from times of time to ease his torments, some sinner showed his back above the surface, then hit more quickly than a lightning flash. And just as on the margin of a ditch, frogs crouched their snouts alone above the water so as to hide their feet and their plump flesh. So here on every side these sinners crouched, but faster than a flash. When Barbaricier drew near, they plunged beneath the boiling pitch. I saw my heart still shudders and recall one who delayed, just as at times a frog is left behind while others died below,

with Grafekane, who was closest to him, then hooked him by his pitch, and tangled locks and hauled him up. He'd seem to me in order. By now I knew the names of all those demons. I'd paid attention when the fiends were chosen. I'd watch as they step forward one by one. O Rubicante, see you set your talents right into him, so you can flay his flesh,

so did those cursed ones cry out together. And I, my master, if you can, find out what is the name of that unfortunate whose fallen victim to his enemies. My guide who then drew near that sinner's side asked him to tell his birthplace. He replied, My homeland was the kingdom of Navarre. my mother who had had me by a wasteful, this joy of himself and his possessions, had placed me in the service of the Lord.

Then I was in the household of the worthy king to Tebow. There I started taking graft with this heat I pay reckoning for that. And Chariato, from whom smouth their bulge to right and left, two tusks like a wild hogs, then let him feel how one of them could mangle. The mouse had fallen in with evil cats, but Barbaricia clasped him. in his arms and said, stand off there while I fork him fast. And turning toward my master then, he said, Ask on if you would learn some more from him before one of the others does him in. Okay, stop. Okay, all right.

So let's feel about this. This is an unusual punishment because it gives the people here an opportunity to escape, right? It's not like they're locked in place. It's like, you know, there's a boiling pitch. the boiling lake, and you can always escape it, right? Why would this be a fitting punishment for people who engage in graft? Yes, go ahead? In graft, they take resources and things away from people who should have.

Right. Okay. And so why would this be a fitting punishment for them? Yes? Maybe because it's doing that is so addicting that they can't stop doing it. Right, okay, so there's a compulsion to them, yes, right? They have to steal, they have engaged in graft, yes, okay? That's part of it, yes?

Yeah, the mechanism of it, if you steal something, you can always, at every part of the journey, you can always decide to turn back and give it back, you know, return whatever you stole. Why do people engage in graph? What's the mentality of people engage in graft? Right? Why do they steal? What's your mentality?

Maybe it's covering of what others have that you don't have so you want to have it. But why is this not greed? What's going on here? What's your mentality? Why do they engage in graft? Yes? Oh, yeah, you mean, it's stealing, right? I think student is the kind of thing that you want to get something.

And also, we can get a much more benefit from it. But there's no punishment. There's nothing good, nothing bad there. So that's why people are. when they just like to steal, they just stick to steal something. It's really hard to give it up. Yeah. So you go ahead.

Yeah, well, also when you steal, you decide that this thing that you're stealing is more deserving for you than the owner. Like you say, like in this action, like, I deserve this and the owner doesn't really. But why? Why do you deserve it? Well, maybe pride. Okay. Yes. Anyone else?

Yes, at the back? I feel like for greed, you are kind of more focusing on like a specific thing, for example, like money and whatever, but you're stilly, you're kind of like stealing anything. Yes. Yeah, like a lot of a variety of stuff. But what is Grave? You're standing from who? Graff has to come from a position of power.

Okay, so the person here, right, he becomes a servant to a powerful Lord. And then he starts to steal from this powerful Lord. Why is he doing that? Yes? Because the Lord is at a better financial position. Yeah, but then the Lord's being generous to him, right? So why would you steal from him? Yes?

You don't respect the Lord? You don't love the Lord? But, yeah, but why don't you respect the Lord? You reject the inherent hierarchy in your relationship? Okay. Yes? Maybe because just like You and her in the Qing dynasty

And they just try to steal something for emperor Because they deserve to have it Because they just pay tribute to the emperor all the time So let's think of like A most common example of graft Okay Which is the accountant, right? So you're a rich person

You're an accountant And for accounting tricks That person is able to steal a lot of money from you What's the mentality I'm going to get away with this right Exactly Right It's not that I'm better than you.

I can get away with this. I'm smarter than you. That's what graft is. I don't get away with this. There's no punishment. I'm so sneaky. I'm so clever. I can get away with this.

So why would this punishment be fitting for these people? Okay. They are in the boiling pitch. That kind of sucks. They escape and they're caught by demons who do what to them? All smart. These demons literally tear them apart, right? Which is a worst punishment?

The second one, right? So it's kind of silly where, look, if you just stay where you are, if you stay in the boring pitch, it kind of sucks, but it's a lot better than being like, you know, torn up pieces by demons, right? But they can't help themselves. They're like, no, I have to escape because they're like, I'll get away, right? But like, we know for a fact, you're not going to away because this is how, you're like, this is god's perfect justice there's no way you're gonna escape hell but for the reason they're in like

no i will escape this time even though for the past 10 million times i was caught by the demon and and you know destroyed okay okay does that make sense okay yes wait so when they're torn to pieces they the bodies get back together uh yeah so they're torn to pieces then they resurrect in in the boiling pitch. Then they do it again. And then something happens. They do it again. This happens like for all eternity. Okay. So it's it's it's it's it's almost like this compulsion where they think I'll get away this time, right? I won't get caught this time. I'll be so sicky this time. But it's absolutely pointless. Okay. Does that make sense? All right. Keep on line. Line 64. At which my guide

now tell among the sinners who hide beneath the pitch are any others italian and he i've just left one who was nearby there and would i wear it still covered by the pitch as he is hidden for then i'd have no fear of hook or talon and lebucoe said we've been too patient and with his grapple grabbed him by the arm and ripping carried off a hunk of flesh but draganazzo also looked as if to grab his legs at which their captain wheeled and threatened all of them with raging looks when they had grown somewhat lest tumultuous without delay my guide asked of that one who had his eyes still fixed upon his wound who was the one you left to come ashore unluckily as you just said before he answered fra comita of galura who was a vessel fit for every fraud he had his master's enemies in hand but handled them in ways that pleased them all he took their gold and smoothly let them off as he himself says and in other matters he was a sovereign not a petty swindler. His comrade there is Don McKellie Zanke of Logodoral, and their tongues are never too tired to talk of their Sardinia. Ami, see that one there who grinds his teeth,

if I were not afraid, I'd speak some more, but he's getting said to scratch my scurve. And their great marshal facing Farferello, who was so hot to strike, he rolled his eyes, said, get away from there, you filthy bird. if you perhaps would like to see her hear that sinner terrified began again Lombards are Tuscans

I can fetch you some But let the Mellibranchi stand aside So then my comrades may not fear their vengeance Remaining in this very spot I shall although alone Make seven more appear when I have whistled As has been our custom One of us has managed to get out

Okay so Donne and Virgil Wants to meet more of these sinners And this sinner says well, they're all in hiding. And the demons are like, let's just start tearing this guy apart because that's what we enjoy doing. And the sinner's like, no, no, no.

If you leave me alone, I'll trick seven more to appear before you. Everyone's in hiding. So if you demons just hide yourself, then I will tell them to come out and then you can catch seven more people to trip apart, okay?

So this is the circle of fraud, circle of deception. We should be with, of everything people do here, okay? All right, keep on going. Line 106. At that, Conyazzo lifted up his snout and shook his head and said, just listen to that trick by which he thinks he can dive back.

To this, he who was rich in artifice replied, then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. This was too much for Al-Qino, and despite the others, he cried out, if you dive back i should not gallop after you but beat my wings above the pitch we'll leave this height with the embankment as a screen we'll see if you alone can handle us oh you who read here now of this new sport each turned his eye upon the other shore he first who'd been most hesitant before the nevarez and nick of time had planted his feet upon the ground and in an instant he jumped and freed himself from their commander at this each demon felt the prick of guilt and most he who had led his band to blunder, so he took off and shouted, You are caught. But this could help him little.

Wings were not more fast than fear. The sinner plunged right under. The other flying up lifted his chest. Not otherwise, the wild duck when it plunges precipitously, when the falcon nears and then exhausted, thwart it, flies back up. But Calcabrino raging at the trick, flew after Aliquino. He was keen to see the sinner free and have a brawl. And once de Navarreze had disappeared, he turned his talons on his fellow demon and tangled with him just above the ditch.

But Alikino clawed him well. He was indeed a full-grown kestrel and both fell into the middle of the boiling pond. The heat was quick to disentangle them, but still there was no way they could get out. Their wings were stuck in meshed in glue like pitch. And Barbara Wichia, grieving with the rest, sent forth to fly out toward the other shore with all their forks. And speedily enough on this side and on that they took their posts. And toward those two, stuck fast, already cooked beneath that crust, they stretched their grappling hooks.

We left them still contending with that mess. Okay, all right. So this sinner, he tricks the demons, right? It says, like, you know, if you leave me alone for a few seconds, I will bring in more sinners. And the demons believe him. and then the sinner escapes, and then demons chase after him, and they fall into the pit.

Okay, so there's a paradox here, right? The sinner has lied to the demons, but there's a paradox. What is the paradox? Do you guys remember what the paradox is? Yes? The demons are punished, but the sinner is not. Okay.

Well, the demons are just being stupid, right? But there's a paradox. Why do demons believe him? There's a paradox here. Okay, you guys, you guys probably don't remember, okay? But there's a rule in hell. The rule in hell is, if you're a so being punished, whatever words you speak to Dante and Virgil must be true.

You understand? You cannot lie to Virgil and Dante. That's the rule in hell. But, clearly the sinner has lied to the demons, right? So how

so what's going on here? This is a contradiction. Okay, so let's feel about this, okay? So the demons are saying, you're lying to us. And then he says, then the sinner says, then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. Is this a lie? What's he saying here? What's he saying here?

Like the demons are trying to, to hurt Dan Tam Virgil? No, no, no, no, I'm saying. What does this lie mean? Then I must have too many tricks if I bring greater torment to my friends. Great. Let's go back, yes? But it's true.

He's not lying to you. Okay, you don't understand. You just read what he writes, what he's speaking. It's not a lie technically. You understand? It's not a deception technically. You're just misinterpreting what he's saying.

Right? So let's go back to the example of like, you know, your friend takes you, to the bazaar, right? And the bizarre shop owner says, this is the best teacup in the world. Then your friend's like, you're lying to us.

And the shop owner says, if I'm lying to you, then I have no friends in the world. It could be true, okay? You understand? If I'm lying to you, I have no friends in the world. Right? You interpret it to say,

okay, well, then he's not lying to me. But it could be true, right? If I'm lying to you have no friends in the world. You understand. And this is what we call sophistry, right? Sophistry, right? You just think you're smarter than everyone else. You think that you know more than everyone else,

and you'll get away of everything. So you keep on doing it, okay? And so he's just playing tricks with words. Doesn't make sense? So he's not lying because you cannot lie in hell. but he's engaging in sophistry okay the constructive words

to make you to manipulate you does that make sense all right let's keep on going yes how come he has the will to escape do people even think of escaping

or just they think of suffering less okay yeah so it's not the will to escape it's a compulsion to prove you're smarter than everyone else it's a compulsion to cheat other people You understand? But the point is, all you're doing is you're cheating yourself, right?

Because all you're doing is escaping into a greater punishment. You just, if you're just honest and stay where you are, you'd be fine. But you constantly want to escape. It's an addiction. Okay? Right? So the people who, you know, at least accountants who steal from rich people, it's not necessarily they need the money.

It's just like they enjoy cheating other people. Okay. All right. Count of 23. Count of 23. Silent, alone, no one escorting us. We made our way. One went before, one after, as friars minor when they walked together. The press and fracas made me think of Esau. That fable where he tells about the mouse and frog.

For near and I are not more close than are that fable in this incident. If you compare with care how each begins and then compare the endings that they share. And even as one thought springs from another, so out of that was still another born, which made the fear I felt before redouble. Okay, sorry, can you Google Aesop's fable of the frog and a horse? Okay, I don't have it remembered, okay? So, progg and horse, yeah. Oh, sorry, frog and mouse, yes, yes, okay.

So can you read it for everyone? Yeah. Story, summary of Esop's frog and mouse. A mouse first asked the frog for help with crossing a river to visit the frog's home. The frog agrees, but ties the mouse's leg to his own with a raid for safety halfway across the frog. Motivated by greed for the mouse's food tries to drown the mouse by diving down the surface. The mouse's dead body floats to the surface still tied to the frog. A hawk sees the floating mouse swoops down and carries off both the mouse and the frog.

So I guess the frog being treacherous ends up being prey as well for the hog. Sure, okay. So this applies to the demons, right? The demons mean to swindle, Don and Virgil, cheat him, but they get greedy. They want to catch more sinners, so they fall in their own trap. Okay?

So, yeah, okay. Let's what I'm going? Line 13. I thought, because of us, they have been mocked, and this inflicted so much hurt and scorn that I'm sure they feel deep in the ground. If angers to be added to their malice, they'll hunt us down with more ferocity than any hound whose teeth have trapped a hair. I could already feel my hair curl up from fear, and I looked back attentively while saying,

Master, if you don't conceal yourself and me at once, they terrify me. Those melebronke, they're after us. I so imagine them, I hear them now. And he to me, where I alet a mirror, I could not gather in your outer image more quickly than I have received your inner. for even now your thoughts have joined my own in both our acts and aspects we are kin with both our minds i've come to one decision if that right bank is not extremely steep you we can descend into the other moat and so escape from the imagined chase he'd hardly finished telling him his plan when i saw thumb approach with outstretched wings not too far if i'm keen on taking us my guide snatched me up instantly just as the mother who's wakened from a war and catch a sight of blazing flames beside her will lift her son and run without a stop she cares more for the child than for herself not pausing even to throw on a shift and down the hard embankment's edge his back lay flat along the sloping rough that closed one side of the adjacent moat he slid no water ever ran so fast along a sluze to turn the wheels of a land-mill not even when its flow approach the paddles as if my master raced down that embankment while bearing me with him upon his chest just like a son and not like a companion.

His feet has scarcely reached the bed that lies along the deep below them. Those ten demons were on the edge above us. But there was nothing to fear for that high providence that willed the ministers of the fish ditch denies to all of them the power to leave it. Okay, so this is almost like a Hollywood movie now, right? It's a chase scene where Donne and Virgil are trying to escape the demons. The demons are chasing them. and there's a door that's closing,

and they at the last minute, are able to run for the door into safety, and the door closes on the demons. Okay, so this is almost like a Hollywood chase scene. Why is Tony writing this? I mean, it's gratuitous because God has already wheeled Dante to go to heaven, right? So obviously the demons can actually do anything to them. They're protected by God.

So why is Donnie actually running the scene? Yes? Maybe to show comradeship or something? Yeah, yeah. It's meant to make us understand and appreciate the growing relationship between Virgil and Dante, right? Because this is, this is like basically character building. It's meant to develop for us and help us understand the intimacy between Dante and Virgil, right? And the example is, let's just say you have two enemies.

right and they hate each other well i guarantee you if you're to dump these two guys who hate each other want to kill each other on a deserted island they become best friends afterwards right so so so that's the idea here so even though they are rivals ultimately this journey will make them into best friends okay i keep on going 58 below that point we found a painted people who moved about the lagging steps and circles weeping with features tired and defeated. And they were dressed in cloaks with cow so low, they fell before their eyes of that same cut

that used to make the clothes for Clooney's monks. Outside these clothes were gilded and they dazzled, but inside there were all of lead, so heavy that Frederick's capes were straw compared to them. A tiring mantle for eternity, we turn again as always to the left, along with them intent on their sad weeping. But with their weights that weary people pace so slowly

that we found ourselves among new company each time we took a step, at which I told my guide, please try to find someone whose name or deed I recognize, and while we walk, be watchful with your eyes. And one who'd taken in my Tuscan speech cried out behind us, stay your steps, oh, you who hurry so along this darkened air.

Perhaps you'll have from me that which you seek, at which my guide turned to me saying, wait, and then continue following his pace. I stopped, and I saw two whose faces showed their minds, were keen to be with one. Both their loath and the tight path forced them to slow. When they came up, they looked askance at me

a long while, and they uttered not a word until they turned to one another, saying, the throbbing of his throat makes this one seem alive, and if they're dead, what privilege lets them appear without the heavy mantle? Then they addressed me, Tuscan, you who come to this assembly

of sad hypocrites, do not the stain to tell us who you are i answered where the lovely arno flows there i was born and raised in the great city i'm with the body i have always had but who are you upon whose cheeks i see such tears distilled by grief and let me know what punishment it is that glittered so and one of them replied the yellow cloaks are of a lead so thick their heaviness makes us the balances beneath them creak we both were jovial friars and bolognais My name is Catilano Lauderingo was hit, and we were chosen by your city together for the post that's usually one man's to keep the peace, and what we were still to be observed around Gardingo. I then began, O friars, your misdeeds, but said no more because my eyes had caught once one crucified by three stakes on the ground. When he saw me, that sinner writhed all over and he breathed hard into his beard with sighs, serving that Frah Catalano said to me That one impaled there

Whom you see counseled the Pharisees That it was prudent to let one man And not one nation suffer Naked, he has been stretched across the path As you can see And he must feel the weight of anyone Who passes over him Like torment in this ditch

Affleaks both his father-in-law and others In that council Which for the Jews has seeded so much evil Okay so this Cai Fis who is the Pharisee, the high priest, who condemn Jesus to death. And so for his punishment, he is crucified to the ground, and everyone just walks on him. This is the area of the hypocrites.

And the hypocrites are punished by wearing cloaks of lead. So, like, their movement is, like, really, really slow, okay? They're burdened by these cloaks of lead. So let's speak about this. what is hypocrisy and why would you be punished walking all the tyranny

with cloaks of lead that are very heavy so heavy that it hurts to walk what is hypocrisy why do people engage in it yes it is basically saying one thing and doing another

so you're pretending to be better than you are so you put off this mask right and and why do you do it to show that you are better than others that you are air

and kind of like, I'm better everybody else, I'm more religious. Okay, so what you're saying is that hypocrites, their words have no meaning, and their words can change at any time. And they're not responsible to their words, right?

So why do they do it? Yes? I think they're cheating. They just pretend to be higher moral stuff, just try to, on the one hand, if you get a benefited from that, and On the other, they would love to try to cheat others so that they will get more. And they don't need to be punished.

And they just hide themselves from, yeah. Okay, well, let's say your teacher, okay? You're telling your students, okay, we need to work hard and read a lot of books and exercise. Okay. And then your students, like a year later, they don't do anything, but they're like, you know, like, we want to, we need to. we want to work hard and exercise and read a lot of books. Why do they do that? Hmm?

To please me, right? And so why would they do that? Yeah, and what's the motivation? Like, to pretend that you're better than who you actually are and then you're very empty on the interior. And then the ultimate goal is to like get benefits by kind of like pretending to be like a better person. Yeah, absolutely. Yes.

Yes. Yes. And then so you're basically You have to wear all those lies on yourself On your consciousness Like you're like consciously Because you know you're not actually doing what you're saying Now all these things that you didn't do

But you say you did They wear on you basically Yeah so like before There was nothing holding you down right You could say whatever you want You can do whatever you want You just choose to do it in order to just get by, right?

Now, now, now you're, now you're being punished with this cloak of lead. Okay? So, does that make sense? Okay, good. All right, let's, let's keep on the way. Line one, two, four. Then I saw Virgil, stand amazed above

that one who lay stretched out upon a cross so squalidly in his eternal exile. And he addressed the friar in this way. If it does not displease you, if you may, tell us if there's some passage on the right, that would allow the two of us to leave without our having to compel black angels to travel to this deep to get us out. He answered, "'Closer than you hope, you'll find a rocky ridge that stretches from the great round wall

"'and crosses all the savage valleys, "'except that here it's broken, not a bridge, "'but where it ruined slope along the bank and heap up at the bottom you can climb.' "'My leaders stood a while with his head bent, then said, "'He who hooks sinners over there gave us a false account, of this affair. So Virgil, no. So Virgil recognized he's been lied to, okay?

Like, duh, right? I keep on going. At which the friar. In Bologna, I once heard about the devil's many vices. They said he was a liar and a father of lies. And then my guide moved on with giant strides somewhat disturbed,

with anger in his eyes. At this, I left those overburdened spirits while following the prince of his dear feet. So why would you trust the devil? What could lead someone to trust the devil? pride right does that make sense is your Christian

saying about this no okay all right well well yeah all right let's let's keep on going can't go on 24 and that part of the young year when the sun begins to warm its locks beneath Aquarius

and nights grow shorter equaling the days when hoarfrost mimes the image of his white sister upon the ground but not for long because the pen he uses is not sharp. The farmer who is short of fodder rises and looks and sees the fields all white, at which he slaps his thigh turns back into the house and hear there complaints like some poor

wretch who doesn't know what can be done and then goes out again and gathers up new hope on seeing that the world has changed its face in so few hours, and he takes his staff and hurries out his flock of sheep to pasture. So did my master fill me with dismay when I saw how his brow was deeply troubled, yet then the plaster soothed the sore as quickly. For soon as we were on the broken bridge, my guide turned back to me with that sweet manner I first had seen along the mountain space. And he examined carefully the ruin that having picked the way we would ascend, he opened his arms and thrust me forward. And just as he who ponders as he labors, who's always ready for the step ahead, so as he lifted me up toward the summit of one great cry,

he'd see another spur saying, that is the one you will grip next, but try it first to see if it is firm. That has no path for those with cloaks of lead, for he and I, he light, I would support, could hardly make it up from spur to spur. And were it not that down from this enclosure, the slope was shorter than the bank before.

I cannot speak for him, but I should surely have been defeated. But since Melibolje runs right into the mouth of its last well, The placement of each valley means it must have one bank high and half the other short. And so we reached at length, the jutting where the last stone of the ruined bridge breaks off. The breath within my lungs was so exhausted from climbing. I could not go on. In fact, as soon as I had reached that sore, I sat.

Stone, I sat. Now you must cast aside your laziness, my master said, for he who rests on down on or undercovers cannot come to fame. and he who spends his life without renown leaves such a vestige of himself on earth as smoke equates to air or foam to water therefore get up defeat your breathlessness with spirit that can win all battles if the body's heaviness does not deter it a longer ladder still is to be climbed it's not enough to have left them behind if you have understood now profit from it okay i'm sure that you might have had a teacher okay Some of you might have had a teacher who has inspired you to greatness. And what your teacher said to you is the reason why we are memorizing tests for like eight hours a day is to aspire to greatness, right? We suffer for 12 years.

We lose our soul. We lose our individuality. But at the end of it, we will obtain immortality because we'll get into like Qinghua or Harvard or Yale. and then we'll be great. What do you think of a teacher like that? There's quite a few teachers like that in China, but what's your impression of a teacher like that? I mean, he's not wrong, right?

He or she's not wrong, and there are lots of students who are able to get into Qinghua or Beidau or Yale or Harvard because of a teacher like that. But how do you feel about a teacher? teacher like that. Have you had a teacher like that and like what's your impression? Yeah, yes? Yeah, because as a teacher you have to do a job well and there's no teacher who said to students that come out and don't study is useless, right? Teacher always said you have to

study better, harder so that it would get more benefit, you know? The sweet always come from, come after the bitterness, right? So yes. I literally just said that to my students like last week and I say to that all the time. I'm like, honey, you'll get like six years of hell or six 60 years of hell. And then we're like, just six years. I'm like, okay, no, work hard for the next six years in your middle school. So you can get to a good, you know, undergraduate school, college so that you can have more happiness, I guess, in the future.

And I'm sure a lot of students have succeeded, right? They've gone to, like, really top universities. Yeah, yeah. Right, right. Achieve their full potential, I suppose. Right. But let's hear some other perspectives, right? You're a teacher, right?

And you've said that. Yes? So back then, I thought it was completely normal. And it is what I should be taught because of meritocracy. But right now, I feel like we are just kind of in like an endless trap. Because after high school, you'll be told that, okay, you'll just have to work hard for four years. And then you'll get into like a good grad school or like you'll get a good job. I feel like it's just kind of like an endless circle.

And I feel like it's more of like the teachers are incapable. of motivating their students to have like an inner drive to study hard so that they're teaching these sorts of ideas onto their students. Do you do agree with that? No, because I actually do believe in this narrative of if you work hard, you go to a good school. You actually have a better chance of getting into like top banking, you know, or whatever jobs that you want because they do filter your first degree. right and so I actually do believe in this narrative I think it's very puritan very biblical so Paul is always saying let's you know

strive for the goal that you are you know so you live your good life so you get your reward in heaven it's kind of the same narrative okay right um I use if a teacher tells me that I know how much effort I need to put for their class because I mean I mean this in the sense that if a teacher is really good at teaching and really has a love for their subject. In classes, what they say is, oh my God, guys, chemistry is so amazing. It's so interesting. And it really piques my passion. So for that class, I put in the extra effort, and I understand that that teacher understands my passion for the subject. But if a teacher tells me, you just need to do this to get to a good

college, I know, like, that class, I'm not going to really learn anything. So I'm just going to put the amount of effort that's needed for me to get an A and just so like I guess for me my understanding of education is not to you know get that job it's to you know better yourself and also learning is fun but if the teachers don't understand and take that perspective I can't really convince them that so it just okay we understand yes yes yes yeah I think it's just not really about the aspect of hard work. I think yes, obviously you need to do work hard, but it's more about the motivation behind it. And it's easier if you're motivated, obviously, to learn something that you're

interested in. So if the teacher tells you, like she said, you know, you need to do this. Or like, I will teach this in a way that it makes it harder for you because you won't like it or I'm going to teach this in a way that you will like it. And obviously it's easier to study. Okay. So it's more about the motivation. Okay. Yes. I think logically it makes sense this way of teaching, but it just assumes that this is the only important thing in life, because you could get, say, a teacher who says, well, don't worry too much, but focus on, you know, your soul, your spirit,

and, you know, be happy with your life. Yes. And then you get two different adults. You get one who's working and banking earning a lot of money, but antidepressants, not happy with their life. And then you get one who didn't, you know, work that hard, didn't make it to that college, but maybe they sort of family and they're happy.

Yes, okay, thank you, yes. I see this narrative as a way of blinding yourself for better outcomes, same as a horse can have the thing on the side just to move faster. So you don't really see why you're doing it, but it's just a way to have better outcomes. So you're like, okay, let me blind myself for the next three years, and I know that when I open my eyes, it's going to be just better. Okay, thank you, yes.

It is a white lie that has been perpetrated. from generation to generation. It is, I think it is the purpose of the white line that is more important than the content and the truthfulness. It is sometimes comparable to a beautiful wrapping of a gift. You know, it might be just a wrapping, but when you unpack it, you still want to, you know, look at the beautiful wrapping and appreciate it. But it's really deep.

depend on the audience. A bad audience might, you know, be obsessed with it and might have some, you know, very tragic result. Okay, good. Yes? I think the problem with education, especially public school education in China, is that the people, the students don't know why they're learning. They think the reason why they are learning is because they need to do it to get to a good high school education. school to get to a good college to get to a good job but that's like the most boring reason for why you learn like if teachers taught students why you learn is because it's fun and it's interesting and it's it's amazing and it's actually very it's like if you actually teach people why learning is fun and interesting then therefore students realize that like in life they don't need to work towards a goal they can just you know strive towards enjoying the journey okay yeah

It's a great discussion, but you have the last word, okay? Then we'll continue, yes, okay. Sorry, I have to put out the counter argument that if we prime education to be something fun of self-discovery, of passion and love, you'll realize that learning is anti-human, just like exercising. Like, in a way, it is, you know, it is good for you, but, you know, to eat a salad every day and to exercise, be an athlete, you know, be a great achiever. We'll take pain. We'll take a bit of, you know, suffering. So when everything is fun driven and passion driven, what if you have passion for chemistry but not for physics?

Or like the teacher try to invoke passion in you, but it's hard because you are just a chemistry person, not physics or not math or Chinese, you know, language arts person. Then you will lose like, oh, then, you know, chemistry is my, you know, passion. And that's the only thing I'm going to learn well. Then the rest of it, it's like whatever. Then I think it's better to have a narrative like, yeah, the other subjects are not as fun, but they are equally as important for your future to, you know, Yeah, so just for some context for those who are watching on the live stream who do not know the Chinese system. The Chinese system, at the end of high school, everyone takes a comprehensive examination that tests six subjects. So you can have a great love of math, but if you don't do one in English, you're really, really screwed, okay?

It's comprehensive, so it's not just about passion, it's about, like, discipline. You have to, like, do well on all six subjects. Okay, so let's continue, okay? Now, what Virgil says to Dante is, cast aside your laziness because what we're trying to achieve is eternal fame. If you want to be the greatest point in the world, you have to work a lot harder. What could Virgil say instead to motivate Dante? And it'd be a lot more effective, by the way. Exactly, right?

What is Donnie doing right now, right? He's trying to get to Beatrice. Beatrice, King of Virgil says, like, I want to see Dante again, bring him to me, right? That is what Virgil's mission is to take Donny to Beatrice, right? So what Virgil's should be saying to Donna is, Petrius is waiting for us. Let's get there as soon as possible, and that's going to motivate Beatrice, Dante a lot more than, like, hey, everlasting fame, man. That's what we want.

Okay, so it shows you psychology, the virtual psychology. And that's why this is a great work of literature, because Verge is a real person, right? He's not just a plot device. He has his own motivations, he has his own psychology, his own worldview. All right? All right. Let's keep on going on. Line 58.

Then I arose and showed myself far better equipped with breath than I had been before. Go on, for I'm strong and confident. We took our upward way upon the ridge with crags more jagged, narrow, difficult. and much more steep than we had crossed before. I spoke as we went on not to seem weak at this. A voice came from the ditch beyond, a voice that was not suited to form words. I know not what he said,

although I was already at the summit of the bridge that crosses there, and yet he seemed to move. I had bent downward, but my living eyes cannot see the bottom through that dark, at which I said, oh, master, can we reach the other belt? Let us descend the wall, for as I hear and cannot understand,

so I see down but can distinguish nothing. The only answer that I give to you is doing it, he said. A just request is to be met in silence by the act. We then climbed down the bridge just at the end where it runs right into the eighth embankment, and now the moat was plain enough to me. And there within I saw a dreadful swarm of serpents so extravagant in form,

remembering them still drains my blood from me. Let Libya boast no more about her sands, or if she breathed Caledry, Jakuli, Shencrus with Mfisbina Paray, she never showed with all of Ethiopia or all the land that borders the Red Sea so many such malignant pestilences. Among this cruel and depressing swarm ran people who were naked, terrified with no hope of a hole or heliotrope. Their hands were tied behind by serpent. These had thrust their head and tail right through the loins. and then were knotted on the other side. And there, a serpent sprang with force at one who stood upon our shore, transfixing him just were the neck and shoulders from a knot.

No O or I has ever been transcribed so quickly as that soul caught fire and burned, and as he fell, completely turned to ashes. And when he lay undone upon the ground, the dust of him collected by itself and instantly returned to what it was, just so it is asserted by great sage, that when it reaches its 500th year, the phoenix dies and then is born again. Lifelong it never feeds on grass or grain

only on drops of incense and amamum. Its final winding sheets are nard and myrrh. And just as he who falls and knows not how, by demon's force that drags him to the ground or by some other hindrance that binds man, who, when he rises, stares about him, all bewildered by the heavy anguish he has suffered, sighing as he looks around,

so did the sinners dare when he arose. Oh, how severe it is the power of God, that as its vengeance showers down such blows. My guide then asked that sinner who he was, to this he answered. Not long sins, I reigned from Tuscany into this savage maw. Mew that I was the beastial life pleased me and not the man. I'm Vani food chief, beast, and the den that suited me, Pistoia. and I to Virgil

Tell him not to slip away And ask what sin has thrust him here I knew him as a man of blood And anger The sinner heard and did not try to Fain but turned his mind and face Intent toward me and coloring With miserable shame

He said I suffer more because you've caught me in this The misery you see than I suffered When taken from the other life I can't refuse to answer what you ask I'm set down so far because I robbed the sacristy of its fair ornament, and someone else was falsely blamed for that. But lest the sight give you too much delight if you can ever leave these lands of darkness, open your years to my announcement. Here, the Stoya first will strip herself of black,

and Florence will renew her men and manners. From Maldi, Margarra, Mars will draw a vapor which turbid clouds will try to wrap. the clash between them will be fierce, impetuous, a tempest fought upon Campo Pichano until that vapor, vicarous, vigorous, shall crack the mist and every white be struck by it. And I have told you this to make you grieve. Okay, all right, so we are pretty far down in inferno. And here, in the circle of fraud, we now meet thieves, okay?

Can I ask you a question? I mean, like, we've been through inferno. We were in a circle of violence. We met people like Axon and the Great. And, yeah, you can make the argument that Axon degrade is a terrible, terrible person because he commits genocide against a lot of people, okay? And he started wars for no real reason, except for his own glory. Darius, the king of Persia, offered him many, many,

bribes in order to not stop to not stop fighting and his ed man told him like let's just take the bribes okay yet at the same time this thief um he's a lot lower in inferno than a great conquer like exsend a great who killed a lot of people why is thievery so bad why why is thievery so evil as it warrants such a low status in health right and also like

if someone is stealing it's often because maybe they need the money right maybe if my child is hungry I'm going to go steal something from other people right

have you guys seen the movie the bicycle thief a very good Italian movie right and if you haven't a really good movie but it's just this guy who's a very normal guy this is like postwar italy absolutely no money and he has to feed his kid so he goes steals a bicycle and then he's you know becomes a villain and society around him so why is thie such a sin yes i think in like the biblical terms the the 10 scenes the greatest 10 sins you can

commit was like the first few was against god like using god's name in vain have other gods and all that and then the rest it was like do not commit adultery do not lie do not like still do not covered uh but all of these the rest of the five sins were all summarized into comforting which is taking others things like taking others wife is adultery you know lying to others is taking the truth away and then there were other things so it was all summarized into thief so it was not a big deal right because like the one the one is like do not you know um worship other idols do not the first few was about against god and those are really bad right but like adultery and like it was like oh yeah but the principle behind adultery and all the other things

will all summarize into right right so so so so in the ten commandments there's this hierarchy yeah so it's and so like stealing is actually pretty low whereas here in inferno it's actually pretty serious right so that's a paradox uh yes did did you raise your hand Okay, all right, right? Did you understand? There's a paradox here. Why is killing a lot of people not as bad

as stealing from one person? Right? And the crime, the sin was, this guy, he steals him from a church, and then someone else was blamed for it. He got away, and then he burned in hell. Right? So he stole,

someone else was blamed, and now he's burning in hell. And the punishment is like they all get bitten by snakes and then they die and then they resurrect and they get bitten by more stakes right

so this is a paradox for us yes one reason you know in criminology or in law and economics you know the punishment is sometimes married

or punishment is calculated partially by the the ability of the society to find the crime. If a crime is very hard to find to be observed, then the department must be multiplied by the factor of this hiddenness. So savoury and all this fraud is more damning or more difficult, more difficult to be to be found by open killing, killing or other crime against humanity

although it's a high in years crime it is easy to be to be discerned by the judge if there is a judge okay okay that makes sense but God knows everything right

so you can't you can never hide your crime from God yes yes I wonder if I haven't done any research on natural law and Aristotle or Aristotle or

Augustine would say about it. But animals kill, animals rape each other. Animals, though, don't put up with animals stealing from one another. They will find a sense of harmony. So I wonder if it goes not against just God laws, but it goes against natural laws as well. That's a very good point, okay? Like animals take stealing very, very, very seriously. They're very protective of their own property, yes.

Okay? Yes? because thievery affects the person who's being thieved capacity to love and trust in the future like maybe for example

say you're a very generous person usually you leave you used to leave your house open and then you get robbed one time then you're going to be very suspicious of all your neighbours you're going to lock all your doors and if you extrapolate this on society why it kills

kind of kills society yes doesn't make sense to you okay The problem with thievery is not the stealing. The fact is that it's so no one knows who did it. So then you have to like suspect everyone, right? The problem is not that he stole and it's not even like what he stole. The problem is like he got away with it. That's why thieves are worse than everyone else because they often get away with it.

It's so secretive. It's so shadowy. Like no one knows who did it. Right? Yes? Didn't you just say that God knows everything? Right, and God will punish you for it. What I'm saying? What is the effect on society?

Yeah, but it's not a sin against God, then? It's not a direct sin against God. It's a sin against society. Right, but for Dante, society is what enables us to truly love God. throughout society, we couldn't actually function. Does that make sense? So what matters is to live a life of faith, hope, and love.

And you're going to do that in society, right? You can't do that by yourself. You can't... So the society, the social fabric, is what's important. It must hold together. That's the logic here. Does that make sense? Okay, all right.

Yes? Yeah, and I also feel like wildesties are, like, deceiving the others through like stealing they're also kind of like deceiving themselves for example like you mentioned earlier what if they are poor and they're incapable of like um for example feeding your kid i feel like with the act of stealing they're also like kind of like um finding like forgiving themselves for not reaching their full potential because there are definitely other ways for them to like get through the problem okay yeah so again the punishment is these guys, these thieves are being bitten by snakes, right, which kills them.

Well, that's a metaphor for what they do in society, right? There are snakes. No one can see them. They're very slippery, and they steal from other people. But what they don't recognize is that it's a sting on people. It's something that imprints itself on people and people can never forget it. And it makes them, as you point out, just constantly thinking about. who stole this right and then what they're going to do is they're often going to blame someone else

and it's going to be the wrong person right so that's and the metaphor is the snake fight right a venomous treacherous snake okay yes yeah i agree with your professor because uh in in the genesis right the iva just adam just steal the wisdom fruit right from the from the tray so i think that is why the god feel really angry about them try to condemn them that's a good point right the snake appears in the serpent appears in um genesis this cannot be a coincidence right it's clearly referring to first society one of trust between god and adam and eve and the snake convinced them to uh disobey god and bring that trust that bond between god okay clearly there's a reference to genesis here okay great Okay, let's, yes?

I noticed, like, in line 108, the resurrection of the sinners is compared to the phoenix. But I thought the phoenix is like a quite positive metaphor. So I wonder why sinners are compared to phoenix. So in poetry, we use a lot of metaphors and similes. It's not really about what's positive, what's negative. It's really about showing you visually what's going on. Right. So the idea is the visual depiction of rising from the ashes.

You're killed, but then you rise again. And then the snake bites you again. And it's kind of silly because you already know, like, you've been through this a million times. But the snake is always able to sneak up on you and kill you. Okay? So it's a metaphor, and it doesn't really care of it, a judgment. All right, let's keep on reading.

Inferno Conto 25. When he had finished with his words, the thief raised high his fists with both figs, cocked, and cried, Take that, oh, God, I square them off for you. From that time on, those serpents were my friends, for one of them coiled them around his neck, as if to say, I'll have you speak no more. another wound about his arms and bound him again and wrapped itself in front so firmly he cannot even make them budge in it why does he hate God so much

he curses God right and he's actually the only person we see in front of that curses God right why yes so we said before the effects of the theory is so big on society but it's kind of one of those crimes that if you're the one doing the thievery maybe to you it doesn't seem that bad so you might feel that you're being unjustly punished right okay um why don't you think it's a bad thing or it's not that you think don't think it's a bad thing but how you when you do it you probably don't realize how bad it is

like we've had the examples before about like the robin hood kind of analogy you know you just take the bike or something like that so you don't think it's that bad but then you realize in the inferno you're in such a bad place right so so let's feel all this okay he steals a lot of things from the church and someone else is blamed right when someone else is blamed how does he feel how how would he feel guilty you'd feel at least that for the other person he's pretty ecstatic man okay right because not only has he gotten away a bit but now he's completely innocent you understand so he's like the perfect crime

And who screwed it up for him? God screwed up for him, okay? So now he's pissed about this. He's like, oh my God, I had it all planned out. It's a perfect crime. And I thought that I get away of it and then God have to intervene. So he's really angry about this. Okay?

Doesn't make sense? All right. So we'll continue after the break. But an announcement is that on Thursday, we start class earlier. We start class at 9 o'clock. Okay, so try to come at about 8.50. And the reason why is we have a special guest joining us,

Professor David Bromwich, who's starting professor of English at Yale. He's joining us live from New Haven. It's a rare treat for us. It will be live streamed to everyone. And what he's going to do is he's going to talk about Shakespeare, and then we're going to talk about Dante. We're going to compare and contrast Shakespeare with Dante. So he's obviously one of world's foremost experts on Shakespeare.

And we are obviously one of the experts on Dante already. So it'll be a very lively discussion. Okay. So something that'll be really fun. So please come about 8.50. We'll start at 9 o'clock promptly. And we'll go for about an hour. Okay.

So, um, yeah, yep. So then are we doing like a three hour morning? Yeah, three hour morning. Yeah, okay. All right, all right, guys. Enjoy your lunch, we'll come back, okay? After the break. Okay, good afternoon.

All right. So I want to clarify an issue that we had this morning, which is why is thievery much worse a sin than genocide. Okay, an example is you have Exxon the Great, who, for his own vanity and glory, he decides to go conquer the Persian Empire. In the process, he kills millions of people. Okay, at least a million, possibly 10 million.

So a million dies. And then you have a thief who steals a holy relic and then someone else is blamed, okay? And as we discussed, what this does is it destroys trust and cohesion in the community. Okay? But still, even if this was a large community, it would only be about a thousand people, okay? it would only be about a thousand people. So we have this strange paradox where for Dante, the thief, by impacting a thousand people,

it's a worse sin than Alexander the Great killing a million people. And how do we reconcile this paradox? And that's why it's important to read Paradise first. Because without reading Paradise, it is impossible to reconcile this paradox. There are certain aspects here that explain, the difference. First is the idea of immortality of the soul. And that's something that

Beatrice will tell Dante that the soul is immortal. It's eternal. It can never die off. If your body dies off, your soul will still be around. Then, what we also learn is that the soul aspires

to return to God. The soul, it's good as desire, it's good as happiness, is to be with God. All right? The soul returns to God. We also learn that what allows us to return to God is the idea of faith, hope, and love. All right? So once you understand these three principles, then we can understand how this works. The million people die, it's not a big deal. They lose their bodies to come back later on. But there's a thousand people who feel betrayed, who are suspicious of each other,

It's not impossible for them to live a life of faith, hope, and love. And in fact, it will probably make them more likely to sin. So now they're moving away from God. Okay? So it's not the absolute numbers that matter. It's how people choose to live their lives that matter. And the sin, the worst possible sin, is treachery, in a way that forces other people to commit treachery as well,

to force you away from God. Does this make sense, guys? Okay. All right. Okay, let's continue. Canto 25, verse 10. Pestoya a postoya, must you last. Why not decree yourself incineration

since you surpass your seat and waked, Throughout the shadowed circles of deep hell, I saw no soul against God so rebel, not even he who fell from Theban walls. He fled and could not say another word, and then I saw a centaur full of anger shouting, Where is he? Where is that bitter one? I do not think Morema has the number of snakes that Centaur carried on his haunch until the part that takes our human form. Upon his shoulders and behind his nape there lay a dragon with its wings outstretched. It sets ablaze all those that intercepts. My master said that centaur there is cacus,

who often made a lake of blood within a grotto underneath Mount Avantine. He does not ride the same road as his brothers because he stole and most deceitfully from the great herd nearby. His crooked deeds ended beneath the club of Hercules, who may have given him a hundred blows, but he was not alive to feel the tenth.

while he was talking so cacus ran by and just beneath our ledge three souls arrived but neither i nor my guide noticed them until they had cried out and who are you at this the words we shared were interrupted and we attended only to those spirits i did not recognize them but it happened as chance will usually bring about that one of them called out the other's name as claiming where was chianfa left behind at this so that my guide might be alert, I raised my finger up from chin to nose. If reader, you're slow now to believe what I shall tell, that is no cause for wonder, for I who saw it hardly can accept it. As I kept my eyes fixed upon those sinners, a serpent with six feet springs out against one of the three, and clutches him completely. It gripped his belly with his middle feet, and with its four feet grappled his two arms, and then it sank its teeth in both his cheeks. It stretched its rear feet out along his thighs and ran its tail along

between the two, then straightened it again behind his loins. No ivy ever gripped a tree so fast as when that horrifying monster clasped and intertwined the other's limbs with its. Then, just as their substance were warm wax, they stuck together and they mixed their colors, so neither seemed what had been seen before, he had been before. Just as, when papers kindled, where it still has not caught flame in full, its colors dark, though not yet black while white is dying off. The other two souls stared, and each one cried, Ami Anniello, how you change, just see you're already neither two nor one.

Then two heads were already joined in one. When in one face where two had been dissolved, two intermingled shapes appeared to us. two arms came into being from four lengths the thighs and legs the belly in the chest became such limbs as never had been seen and every former shape was cancelled there that perverse image seemed to share in both and none and so and slowly it moved on just as the lizard when it darts from hedge to hedge beneath the dog's daze's giant lash seems if it cross one's path a lightning flesh so seemed a blazing little serpent moving against the bellies of the other two as black and livid as a peppercorn attacking one of thirm it pierced right through the part where we first take our nourishment and then it fell before him at full length the one it had transfixed stared but said nothing in fact he only stood his ground and yawned as one whom sleep or fever has undone the serpent stared at him he at the serpent one through his wound the other through his mouth were smoking violently their smoke met let lucan now be silent where he sings of sad sabalus and assidious and wait to hear what flies off from my bow let avid now be silent where he tells of catmas arithusa if his verse had made of one of serpent one of

I do not envy him. He never did transmute two natures face to face, so that both forms were ready to exchange their matter. These were the ways they answered to each other. The serpent split its tail into a fork. The wounded sinner drew his steps together. The legs and then the thighs along with them so fastened to each other that the juncture soon left no sign that was discernible. Meanwhile, the cleft tail took upon itself the form of the other, gradually lost its skin grew soft the other skin grew hard i saw the arms that drew in at its armpits and also saw the monsters two short feet grow long for just as much as those were shortened the serpent's hind feet twisted up together became the member that man hides just as the wretch put out two hind pods from his member and while the smoke fails each with a new color and now breeds hair upon the

skin of one, just as it strips the hair from off the other. The one rose up, the other fell, and they never turned aside their impious eye lamps beneath which each of them transformed his snout. He who stood up drew his back toward the temples, and from the excess matter growing there came years upon the cheeks that had been bare. Whatever had not been pulled back, but kept superfluous, then made his face a nose and thickened out his lips appropriately. He who was lying down, thrust out his snout, and even as the snail hauls its horns and its horns, he drew his ears straight back into his head. His tongue, which hath before been whole and fit, for speech now cleaves. The other's tongue which had been forked now closes up, and the

smoke stops. The soul that had become an animal now hissing hurried off along the valley. The other one behind him speaks and spits. And then he turned aside his new-made shoulders, and told the third soul, I'd have Boasso run on all fours down this road, as I have done. And so I saw the seventh ballast change and re-change. May the strangeness plead for me if there has been some confusion in my pen. And though my eyes were somewhat blurred, my mind bewildered. Those three sinners did not flee so secretly that I could not perceive Pucho-chancato clearly. He who was the only soul who had not been changed among the three-threathed.

companions we had first met at first we had met at first the other one made you gavile grieve okay so um these sinners are here because they committed identity theft their impostors they pretend to be someone else okay it's like credit card credit card fraud and um again this goes back to the idea that um the low way go the more these people are destroying the trust of society and society's capacity to function cohesively okay that's why they're being punished like this and their punishment is fitting because they're constantly being changed right snakes take over their bodies and then dissipates your soul then they're resurrected and then snakes take over their souls again okay so um but what is unusual

about this canto is Dante spends a lot of time in the description right Dante is usually very economical

he spends maybe a terset and then he moves on here we have an entire conto talking about the metamorphosis why would he do that

again I don't actually know the answer I'm just pointing this out right this is unusual for Dante he's usually very sussanged very economical, very terse, and now he's spending a lot of time going in detail over the metamorphosis.

Why would he do that? Any speculations? Again, I don't know the answer. I mean, like, I just want to speculate. Any possibilities? Maybe he wants to contrast this with heaven, where the scheme is grandiose and extremely expensive and unlimited. Here he wants to go to the reverse to look at things under microscope and to give you a sense of

you know depths or whatever you know give you a sense of retricion or the opposite of heaven. Okay. That is a possibility, okay? To great contrast, yes. Any other possibilities? Yes.

I think depicting these sinners, metamorphosizing, is a reflection of them getting less and less human because of the sin they done? Yes, right. Any other possibilities? Yes? Maybe he's just trying to prove that he can write about metaphorses

as good as all of it. can yeah that's a very interesting idea right because there's certain poets that Dante admires or Virgil is definitely a monotop but it's also Ovid and Loken okay and he does mention Ovid and Lukan in this kanto so you're right maybe he is trying to prove that he can just be as good as Ovid yes and also in the Bible in the book of Revelations which is the last book of the Bible John a lot of visions about what he saw about angels and, you know, the last day. So maybe he's kind of doing that same thing as well to show that I have the divine intervention.

I have this vision about what's in hell, just like John had an idea of what's in heaven. Excellent. Okay, right. So we're approaching Lucifer, right? We're approaching the inner core of Lucifer. And maybe what he's trying to do is convey the sense of fear and dread. Right? He's trying to evoke fear and dread in us. because as we're reading this, we visualize what's happening to this human, becoming a serpent.

And if you think about it, it's very hard not to be afraid, right? This is almost like a horror movie now, right? This metamorphosis. I'm not sure if you've seen the movie, The Fly, right, where this guy turns into a fly, it's pretty disgusting. It's pretty scary. Don't watch it. Yeah. Yeah, but the idea of metamorphosis, right, that we can lose our human beings.

human form and become something else. That's actually very, very scary. And it's hard to think of something even more scary than that idea. And maybe he's using that in order to evoke it as a fear and dread as we approach the inner sanctums of hell. Great. These are all great suggestions, okay? All right, let's keep on going.

Conto 26. Be joyous, Florence, you're great indeed. For overseeing land, you beat your wings. Through every part of hell, your name extends. Among the thieves I found five citizens of yours and such that shame has taken me with them you can ascend to no high honor but if the dreams dream's dream closed to dawn our truth then little time will pass before you feel what prado and the others pray for you where that already come it would not be too soon and let it come

since it must be as i grow older it will be more heavy okay all right so here dante is referenced referencing the prophetic tradition okay he is spelling boom for florence he's like florence you guys should be proud because you have more members of Florence in hell than anyone else, okay? This is a great achievement and God's going to punish you. Okay? Keep on one.

Verse 10. Where that already come, it would not be too soon and that it comes since it must be. As I grow older, it will be more heavy. We left that deep and by protruding stones that served as stairs for our descent before. My guide climbed up again and drew me forward.

And as we took our solitary path among the ridges, jagged, spurs, and rocks, our feet could not make way without our hands. It grieved me then, and now greased me again when I direct my mind to what I saw, and more than usual, I curb my talent, that had not run where virtue does not guide, so that if my kind star or something better has given me that gift, I not abuse it. As many as the fireflies, the peasant, while resting on a hillside in the season when he who lights the world least hides its face, just when the fly gives way to the mosquito, sees glimmering below down the valley there

where perhaps he gathers grapes and tails. So many were the flames that glittered in the eight abyss. I made this out as soon as I had come to where one sees the bottom. Even as he who was avenged by bears saw, as it left, Elijah's chariot, its horses rearing, rising right to heaven. When he could not keep track of it except by watching one lone flame in its ascent,

just like a little cloud that climbs on high, so through the gullet of that ditch, each flame must make its way. No flame displays its prey, though every flame has carried off a sinner. I stood upon the bridge and leaned straight out to sea, and if I had not gripped a rock, I should have fallen off without a push.

My God, who noted how intent I was, told me. Within those fires there are souls, each one is swathed in that which scorches him. My master, I replied, on hearing you, I'm more sure, but I'd already thought that it was so, and I had meant to ask, who is within the flame that comes so twined above that it would seem to rise out of the pyre

Etiocles shared with his brother? He answered me, Within that flame Ulysses and Diamides suffer, they who went as one to rage, share one punishment and there together in their flame they grieve over the horses fraud that caused a breach the gate that let Rome's noble seed escape there they regret the guile that makes the dead didamia still lament Achilles and therefore the palladium they pay if they can speak within those sparks I said

I pray you and repray and master may my prayer be worth a thousand please do not forbid my waiting here until the flame with horns approaches us or you can see how out of my desire I've bent toward it okay so um the don'ty never read homer so he never read the iliad and the odyssey and so his conception of ulysses comes from other writers and um eulisies he's he's imprisoned in a flame he's being burned in a flame with that made and the reason why they're being punished is the two came up with the idea of the Trojan horse. This treachery, this deception that allowed the Greeks to destroy the Trojans, forcing the Trojans to go to Rome, to found the Roman Empire. Okay, all right, let's keep on going.

Line 70, line 70, and he to me, would you have asked as worthy of every praise, therefore I favor it. I only ask you this. Refrain from talking. Let me address them. I have understood what you desire of them. Since they were Greek, perhaps they'd be disdainful of your speech. And when my guide adjudged a flame had reached a point where time and place were opportune, this was the form I heard his words assume.

You two who move as one within the flame, if I deserved a few while I still lived, if I deserved a few much or little when in the world I wrote my noble lines, do not move on. Let one of you retell where having gone astray, he found his death. The greater horn within that ancient flame began to sway and tremble, murmuring just like a fire that struggles in the wind. And then he waved his flame to back and forth as if it were a tongue that tried to speak and flunk toward us a voice that answered. When I sailed away from Cersie, who had beguiled me to stay more than a year there near Gaieta, before Aeneas gave that place the name, neither my fondness for my son nor pity for my old father nor the love I old

Penelope, which would have gladdened her, was able to defeat in me the longing I had to gain experience of the world and off the vices and the worth of men. Therefore, I set out on the open sea with but one ship in that small company of those who never had deserted me. I saw as far as Spain, far as Morocco, along both shores. I saw Sardinia and saw the other islands that sea baths. And I and my companions were already old and slow. When we approached the narrows were heard purely set up his boundary stones that men might heed and never reach beyond upon my right i had gone past savilla and on the left already past seuta brothers i said oh you who have crossed a hundred thousand dangers reach the west to this brief waking time that still is left

unto your senses you must not you must not deny experience of that which lies beyond the sun and of the world that is unpeopled consider well the seat that gave you birth you were not made to live your lives as brutes, but to be followers of worth and knowledge. I spared my comrades with this brief address to meet the journey with such eagerness that I could hardly then have helped them back. And having turned our stern toward the morning, we made wings out of our oars in a wild flight, and always gained upon our left-hand side. At night, I now could see the other pole in all its stars. The star of ours had fallen and never rose above the plain of the ocean. Five times the light beneath the moon had been rekindled, and as many

time was spent since that hard passage faced our first attempt. When there before us rose a mountain, dark because of distance, and it seemed to me the highest mountain I had ever seen, and we were glad, but this soon turned to sorrow, for out of that new land a whirlwind, a whirlwind rose and hammered at our ship, against her bow. Three times it turned her. around with all the waters and at the fourth it lifted up the stern so that our prow plunged deep as pleased another until the sea again closed over us okay so um uh virgil is asking elysses how did you die and ulysses it says said that i'm a wander i'm an explorer and i took my man and i and i rallied them and said that we are uh we are seeking knowledge we are seeking

new lands and this excited everyone and we sailed as far as a mountain this mountain is going to be proletary okay we will be in a prototory after we finish inferno and then he sells off the um face of this earth right he uh they just die uh when they fall off the earth so this is a paradox because weren't we told to live a life of faith hope and love And here, Ulysses, he is pursuing what he loves, and he's exploring new lands, and he's living a life of faith, that there must be new knowledge out there for me to discover. Why would he be in hell? What did he do wrong? Yes?

First, he could be just, like, wanting to explore more without actually understanding what he's seeing, and also about the mountain being, pretty. It could be a way of saying if you avoid puritory, then you finish in like hell. Interesting. Exactly. Yes. You try to run away from perpetory and you end up in hell. Yeah, that's very interesting. Yes.

Anyone else? No, those are great ideas, but anyone else? Yes. I'm guessing, like, if he's trying to know, like, all of the knowledge in the world, he's trying to be like God, kind of? Um, okay Not really Because

He's just exploring, right? Okay, we won't meet someone who wants to be God later on, but like not here. Okay? Yeah, go ahead. Earlier in Verse 94, neither my fondness for my son or pity for my old father nor the left I owed Penelope da-da was able to defeat me the longing to gain experience in this world. So he ignored and betrayed

and was treacherous towards people he should love or loves him. He abandoned his family, right? Right? He has a father, Liartis. He has a son, Tamakis. He has a wife, and he says, I love my wife.

But my desire to wonder override my love for my own wife. And so why did he fail in his mission to explore? How did he die? He has no anchor, right? Remember how in paradise, it is Donny's love for Beatrice that propelled him to heaven. Right? Well, in your exploration, what anchors you is your love of family.

You have to ask yourself, why am I exploring? Like, where am I going? And Ulysses didn't know, so he just fell off the face of the earth because there was nothing to hold him back. Okay? And that's why the punishment is the flame, because the flame of ambition, right? And he's just trapped in his ambition, but there's no body to it. There's nothing to hold that flame back. The flame just wanders about.

Okay. So again, what Donnie is saying, this is like really important is that we as individuals, we are ultimately anchored by our family, our community, our society. Without these things, we are really nothing. Does that make sense? Any other questions or thoughts about this? Yes? But doesn't Dante celebrate individuality?

Right, but what he's saying is that individual has been anchored to other people. You can only be an individual with other people. Does that make sense? Yes? Why is this worse than murder and thiever? Yeah, that's your question. Why? Well, thievery, you are hurting those.

You're hurting strangers, right? But what Elysses is doing, you're hurting your own family. Right? You're betraying your own kind and your own roots. Okay. Right, does that make sense? Because your son needs a role model. your wife needs a husband and your father needs a son

and you've just abandoned them in order to pursue your own ambition you're rootless, all you care about is your ambition does that make sense? Okay, good, great question, okay? But do you understand the idea? So do you understand the idea that an individual can only be so with other people? You can't be an individual by yourself.

Right? And like, it's hard for you to appreciate. But at this time in history, what's the worst punishment for people? Exile, right? Does that make sense? Not execution. Exile. Okay. And that's why Don is so pissed off right now. When he's writing this in exile from Florence. And he's like, I can't be who I am about Florence. Okay. You're taking away my identity. Does that make sense? All right. Yes? Um, could I, I, I want to add to the canto before, to the metaphor, sure, sure. Um, the idea that, well, the, the, these, these get turned into snakes. And the question is, well, who else got turned into a snake? And it was the original serpent, right? By God. And the serpent was the one who basically robbed Adam and Eve of paradise. Right.

So, basically that's like the, the, allusion to that. Exactly. You're exactly right, yes. And in fact, Milton will use this metamorphosis for Paradise Laws, because in Paradise Laws, the end fate for Satan and the devils is they all turn into snakes. So it's almost like symmetry. All right.

Thank you. All right. Let's keep on going, guys. And I want to commend everyone, okay, because now the discussion is much more interesting. All right. So this is great what's happening. Okay. 27 now.

27. The flame already was erect and silent. It had no more to say. Now it had left us with the permission of the gentle poet. When just behind it came another flame that drew our eyes to watch its tip because of the perplexing sound that it sent forth. Even as the Sicilian bull that first had bellowed with the cry, and this was just of him who shaped it with his instruments, would always bellow with its victim's voice. so that although that bull was only brass, it seemed as if it were pierced through by pain. And so were the helpless words that from the first had found no path rexed from the flame,

transformed into the language of the fire. Okay, right. So it may seem innocuous, right? Oh, you're a chop in a flame. Who cares? Okay. So what Donda is doing is, he's reminding you how painful it is by reminding you of the Sicilian bull. Okay?

So the same bull was a hollow, brass sculpture, and then you were put inside of it, and you were burned inside of it. Okay? And then you felt so much pain that you cried, and then people outside would hear basically a bull moaning. All right? So you're being burned alive constantly, so it's pretty painful. Keep on going. Line 16. But after they had found their way up toward the tip and given it that movement which the tongue had given them along their

passage we heard oh you to him I turn my voice who only now we're talking Lombard saying now you may leave I'll not provoke more speech though I have come perhaps a little late may it not trouble you to stop and speak with me see how I stay and I'm burning if you have fallen to this blind world but recently out of the sweet Italian country from which I carry all my guilt do tell me of the Romanioles how peace or war I was from there the hills between Orbino and the ridge where Tiber springs. I still was bent, attentive over him when my guide nudged me lightly at the side and said, You speak, he is Italian. And I, who had my answer said already, without delay, began to speak to him. O soul that is concealed below in flame, Romagna's not now

and never was quite free of war inside its tyrant's hearts. But when I left her, none had broken out. Ravenna stands, as it has stood for years, the eagle of Palenta, shall. shelters it and also covers chervio with his wings. The city that already stood long trial and made a bloody heap out of the French now finds itself again beneath green paws. Both masters of Rukio, old and new who dealt so badly with Montaania, sees use their teeth to bore where they have always nod. The cities on Lomonas, Saturnal, are led by the young lion of the white lair. from summer unto winter he shifts factions that city with its side bathed by the savio just as it lies between the plain and mountain lives somewhere between tourney and freedom and now i pray you tell me who you are do not be harder than i've been with you that in the world your name may still endure after the flame and customary fashion had roared a while it moved its pointed tip this side and that and that set free this breath if i thought my reply were meant for one whoever could return into the world this flame would stir no

more and yet since none if what I hear is true ever returned a life from this abyss then without fear facing infamy I answer you I was a man of arms then wore the cord belief that so girt I made amends and surely what I thought would have been true had not the highest priest may he be damned made me fall back into my former sins and how and why it have you here from me. While I still had the form of bones and flesh my mother gave to me, my deeds were not those of the lion, but those of the fox. The wilds and secret ways I knew them all and so employed their arts that my renown had reached the very boundaries of earth.

But when I saw myself come to that part of life when it is fitting for all men to lower sails and gather in their ropes, what once had been my joy was now dejection. Repenting and confessing, I became a fright. and poor meat would have helped the prince of the new Pharisees who then was waging for so near the Lateran and not against the Jews or Saracens for every enemy of his was Christian and none of them had gone to conquer a or been a traitor in the Sultan's lands took no care for the highest office or the holy orders that were his or for my cord which used to make its wearers lean but just as Constantine on mount so erecty, to cure his leprosy, sought out Sylvester, so this one sought me out as his instructor to ease the fever of his arrogance. He asked me to give counsel. I was silent. His words had seemed to me delirious, and then he said, Your heart must not mistrust. I now absolve you in advance

teach me to batter Palestrino to the ground. You surely know that I possess the power to lock and unlock heaven, for the keys my predecessor did not prize are two. Then his grave arguments compelled me so my silence seemed a worse offense than speech, and I said, since you cleanse me of the sin that I must now fall into, Father, no, long promises and very brief fulfillmentes will bring a victory to your high throne. Then Francis came, as soon as I was dead for me, but one of the black cherubim told him, don't bear him. Don't bear him. off do not cheat me he must come down among my menials the counsel that he gave was fraudulent since then i've kept close track to snatch his scalp one can't absolve a man who's not repented and no one can repent and will at once the law of contradiction won't allow it oh miserable me for now i started when he took hold of me and said perhaps you did not think that i was a logician he carried me to my oh miserable me for now i started when he took hold of me and said perhaps you did not think that i was a logician he carried me to

to Minos, and that monster twisted his tail eight times around his hide, and then, when he had bid it in great anger announced, this one is for the thieving fire. For which and where you see, I now am lost, and in this garb I move in bitterness. And with this, his words were at an end. The flame departed, sorrowing and writhing and tossing its sharp horn. We moved beyond. I went together with my guide along the ridge until the other arch that bridges the ditch where payment is imposed on those who, since they brought such discord, bear such loads. Okay, so to summarize, the sinner, he gave Protestant counsel, okay? So he is a military strategist, and the Pope, Bonifist, wanted to take a certain city.

And the Pope asked him, for what clever strategy gym can I use take this city? and the sinner was like, I'm afraid of God. I'm not going to tell you. And Boniface is like, I speak for God. I promise you that if you help me, I will guarantee you into heaven. That is my power as Pope. So he says, fine. Then here's my advice.

Grant amnesty to the people, and when they open the doors, we'll just kill everyone. Or we'll capture the leaders, okay? And that strategy does work. And when he died, he thought that he was going to heaven. And St. Francis came down from heaven to take him to heaven, as was promised by the Pope. But then one of the fallen angels says, you can't go because you gave Fatherland counsel. And so your actions determine your place in hell. This is a very strange story for a variety of reasons.

Let's start naming the reasons why this is a strange story or it doesn't really make any sense. St. Francis came out from heaven and then he was denied. Why is this a paradoxical story? This is like really problematic story, actually. Well, the first paradox is St. Francis agrees with the Pope, Boniface, right? That's kind of strange. Boniface said that if you help me

I guarantee you a place in heaven and Boniface this isn't simony but it's pretty corrupt right it's pretty evil in St. Francis up in heaven says

sure sure like that's a deal I'll come and get the man and then the black children have to intervene this is like really problematic okay that's the first paradox yes

What's a black sherbin? A sherbin is an angel, right? So a black sherbin would be a fallen angel. Yes. So remember when we were in paradise, there were many different orders of angels, right? So a Sherbin is one of the orders. This is a really hard paradox, right? St. Francis, who is founder of the Franciscan order,

those who are devoted to poverty. that one of the least corruptible individuals in history he's helping a very corrupt pope do evil in the world what's going on here and i mean i don't know the i actually don't know the answer i'm just throwing this out there okay it's confusing me as well something about even if st francis came hear me? Hello? Something about even if

St. Francis came down and agrees with Bonafet Farsi that he will try to bring this man to heaven, something about the law of contradiction doesn't allow it. Something about the nature of his repentance. What does it mean

the contradiction here? What it means is, yes, your heart says, I want to repent, right? But your action says another thing. Okay? So just because you say something, believe something doesn't count. It's like your action has to match these things. So yes, you did become a friar.

You did promise yourself to a life of God. But you also committed treachery. You also lied to the people inside the city, drew them out, and then betrayed them. You also gave the pope really bad counsel. You should have told the pope, like, don't do this. Don't go against your enemies. instead, you help them

trick other people, okay? You gave father than counsel. You engage in manipulation and treachery and deception. Right? So it doesn't matter what you say, your actions speak for themselves. That's the idea here.

You're condemned by your actions. Guys, there's no answer. We're just throwing out possibilities, yes. Yeah, but I mean the Pope should have known that this is not godlike, right? And the Pope's going to burn in hell. Yeah. Right? We really know Boniface is going to burn in hell.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, but like almost every pope was corrupt. Well, a lot. So like almost everyone should be there. Yeah, there are a lot of popes burning hell, yes. Okay. Anyone else?

Yes. Yeah, there's something about, I mean, this one, the past few cantoes there's something about manipulation that comes to mind it's almost like the flip side of the positive imagination of love by God

this is the manipulation of this kind of like the other side of the coin to serve himself right it's still a fundamental selfish act to right and that's why he's burning hell but the story again the story there are so there are certain paradoxes in the story

I still don't get why Francis would come down to honor this contract. Yes? Yeah, I would just keep asking a question, like, because I know that during back that period, the black party to keep fighting with the white party. So the denting, which is, I think he's trying to, against the black party, right?

But during back to that period, I think the two parties want to try to compete with each other, who is right and who will be superior. So maybe in that case, that, yeah, maybe there's only the war, killing people, which can just allow the empire to be solidified. So. Yeah. Did you want to say something? Well, it was a black angel that told him that he can't bring him to heaven.

But black angels are fallen angels, right? Right. Fallen angels don't have any power in heaven. Or do they? Well, no, there's like, like the man died, right? the sinner died and now there are two angels fighting for his body right st francis and the black sherbin okay and the black shirbin i have priority over you why does it have priority should me why does it why does a fallen angel have more priority yeah that's a paradox right

i'm saying like there are a lot of paradoxes in the story one paradox is yes uh what did francis agreed to help him and two how did the black sherbin have more power than and St. Francis. Right? These are paradoxes. All right. Okay. Let's try to unpack what's going on.

Okay? Point one is that the Pope Boniface says that are the keys to heaven. Okay? So what is saying is that as Pope, he is the representative

of God on earth. So he does have a certain power. And that's why the sinner agrees to such duplicity because he's guaranteed, right? There's a contract at play, right? Okay. And then because of this contract, St. Francis has to come and honor this contract.

Otherwise, you're avoiding the authority of the church, of the Catholic Church, on earth. Okay? Does that make sense? But this is saying that there are these laws that are above the contract in the Catholic Church. Okay? And at this point in history, to hear these ideas would be revolutionary, right?

Because at this time in history, everyone did believe the Pope was the representative of God on earth, and Catholics still do today. And the Pope literally has a power to grant you access to heaven. Okay? So that's what I think is going on, but I could be wrong. Okay?

All right, this is all just speculation. Any other thoughts or comments about this? Just following up on what you just said, I think justice trumps the Catholic Church and that authority. Yeah. And this is revolutionary at this point an issue, right? Okay. This alludes to the universality of truth. Like there is something governing even, you know, the angels close to God.

That's right. Okay. Yes. There is a cosmic order, okay? All right, let's keep on going. Conto 28. Who, even with untrammeled words and many attempts at telling, ever could recount and full of the blood and wounds that I now saw? Each tongue that tried would certainly fall short because the shallowness of both our speech and intellect cannot contain so much.

Were you to resemble all the men who once, within a pooleous, fateful land, had mourned their blood shed at the Trojan's hands, as well as those who fell in the long war where massive mounds of rings were battle spoils. even as Livy writes, who does not err, and those who felt the thrust of painful blows when they fought hard against Robert Guiscar, with all the rest whose bones are still piled up at Chaparano. Ichipulian was a traitor there, and two, at Talia Cotso, where old Alardo conquered without weapons, and then were one to show his limb pierced through and won his limb hacked off that would not match the hideousness of the ninth abyss. no barrel even though it's lost a hoop or hand and peace ever gapes as one whom I saw ripped right from his chin to where we fart his bowels hung between his legs one saw his vitals in the miserable sack that makes of what we swallow excrement while I was all intent on watching him he looked at me and with his hands he spread his chest and said see how I split myself see now how maimed mymed Mohammed is and he who walks and weeps before me is Ali whose faces open wide from chin to forelock and all the others here whom you can see where when alive the sowers

of dissension and scandal and for this they now are split okay so this in this part of hell these are people who've caused civil discord war between families okay and the first two people we see being punished are Mohammed and Ali. And this, of course, would be confusing to a lot of people, especially Muslims. Okay, so how Dani understands this is that he thinks that Islam is just splitting off from Christianity, right? You believe, you all read the Bible, you believe in the same God, and so this is basically just a division of two. religions okay so at this time in history uh Catholics believe that

Muhammad was just leading leading a a heresy okay so and then Ali is Muhammad's grandson he caused a division among the Islamic faith between the Shia Muslims and the Sunni Muslims okay the Shia Muslims believe that only an ancestor so only the descendant of Mohammed can be Caliph be the Supreme leader and the soonest believe no that's not actually the case okay and that caused a massive schism which continues to to today okay um and so for creating this um this chord their bodies are constantly ripped in half and split all the time okay all right uh let's keep on going

line 37 behind us here a devil decks us out so cruelly replacing everyone of this strong underneath the sword edge when we've made our way around the road of the pain. Because our wounds have closed again before, we have returned to meet his blade once more. But who are you who dawdle on this ridge, perhaps to slow your going to the verdict that was pronounced on yourself accusations? Death has not reached him yet, my master answered, nor is it guilt that summons him to torment, but that he may gain full experience. I, who am dead, must guide him here below to circle after circle throughout hell. This is as true as that I speak to you.

More than a hundred when they heard him stopped within the ditch and turned to look at me, forgetful of their torture, wondering. Then you who will perhaps soon see the sun, tell Fra Dochino to provide himself with food, if he has no desire to join me here quickly, lest when Snow besieges him, it brings the Noverese, the victory that otherwise they would not find too easy. When he had raised his heel as if to go, Mohamed said these words to me, and then he said it on the ground and off. he went. Another sinner, with his throat slid through and with his nose hacked off,

up to his eyebrows, and no more than a single year remaining, had with the other stayed his steps in wonder, he was the first before the rest to open his windpipe, on the outside, all blood red, and said, O you whom guilt does not condemn, and whom, unless too close resemblance, cheats me, I've seen above upon Italian soil, remember, peer to Medichina, if you ever again the gentle plane that from Vercelli slopes to Markabo. And let the two best men Afano know, I mean both Messer Guido and Angelelo, that if the foresight we have here's not vain,

they'll be cast out of their ship and drowned, wait down with stones near La Cotolica because of a foul tyrant's treachery. Between the Isles of Cyprus of Manorca, Neptune has never seen so cruel a crime committed by the pirates or the argives. That traitor who sees only with one eye and rules the land which one who's here with me would wish his sight had never seen

will call Guido and Angelelo to a parley, and then we'll so arrange it that they'll need no vow or prayer to Fokara's wind. And I to him, if you would have me carry some news of you above, then tell and show me who so detests the sight of Rameini. And then he set his hand upon the jaw of a companion opening his mouth and shouting, this is he and he speaks not a man cast out he quenched the doubt in caesar insisting that the one who's prepared can only suffer harm if he delays oh how dismayed and pain he seemed to me his tongue slit in his gullet curio who once was so adashes in his talk and one who walked with both his hands hacked off while lifting off his stumps through the dark air so that his face was hideous with blood cried out you will remember mosques too who said alas what's done is at an end which was the seed of evil for the tuscans i added and brought death to your own kinsmen then having heard me speak grief heaped on grief he went his way as one gone mad with sadness but i stayed there to watch their company and saw a thing that i should be afraid to tell with no more proof than my own self except that i am reassured by conscience that good companion heartening a man beneath the breast

place of its purity i surely saw and it still seems i see a trunk without a head that walked just like the others in that melancholy herd and carried by the hair its severed head which swayed within its hand just like a lantern and that head looked at us and said ah me out of itself it made itself a land and they were two and one and one and two how that can be he knows who so decrees when it was just below the bridge it lifted its land and they were two and one and two how that can be he knows who so decrees when it was just below the bridge it lifted arm together with this head so that its word might be more near us words that said now you can see atrocious punishment you who still breathing go to view the dead see if there's any pain as great as this and so that i you may carry news of me know that i'm bertrand de bourne the one who gave bad counsel to the fledgling king i made the son and father enemies and and Ketafel with his malicious urging did not do worse with Absalom and David.

Because I severed those so joined, I carry alas, my brain disavoured from its source, which is within my trunk, and thus in me one sees the law of counter-penalty. Okay, so we are, these sinners committed, they sold discord, and this discord became permanent, right? So we talked about Mohammed and Ali. Then there's Curio who sold discord between Caesar and Pompeii, who were previously good friends.

This led to a massive civil war in Rome, which will end only with the rise of the Roman Empire. You also have betrne de Bourne, and he's lost his head because he caused discord, or civil war between a father, king, and a son, the prince. Okay? Um, just for fun. Um, who would you put into this circle? Like today, like from, from history or from today or just from your imagination, who would you put into this circle, a sort of discord? Just for fun, yes. Heller.

Is it? Taylor. No. That's not what he did. Yes. Okay. Because I ask people who belongs in hell, your first start is Hitler, right? But like, let's think about the punishment, okay?

Soul of discord. Yes? Representative of Democrats and Republicans and like far right, far left. But can you give me an example? Like Trump for Republicans and like Cumilar Harris. Maybe Donald Trump, right? Yeah. Okay.

Maybe Donald Trump, because Donald Trump has left. to the polarization of American society. Right? It's either you are for him or against him. Yes. So good idea, yes? Yes. Along that line, I was going to say J.D. Vance.

Why did J.D. Vance? Because he also so's conflict. But in every politician, so's conflict then, right? Yeah. But, yeah, Trump is a good suggestion. Anyone else? It doesn't have to be a real person. It could also be a fictional character.

a movie character, okay? Or is it someone from your life that you really really don't like? Okay, yes? Social media in general and the makers of them? So Mark Zuckerberg? Right?

Is that a possibility? Because you schism, it doesn't have to be like turning one into two. It can be turning one into multiple. Scattered. Well, no, no, the idea of like the social media algorithm is that they're trying to provoke anger. Because with anger, you're much more engaged.

you're much more likely to use social media, right? So someone like Mark Zuckerberg is a sort of discord, and that's a major concern about social media, right? Before you had the evening news, and the evening news was a place to build consensus, to build community. With social media, you just live in your own bubble, and then you start arguing with other people,

and then it's no longer about finding consensus, it's just about, like, beating the other guy, right? So Mark Zuckerberg arguably is a sort of discord along Donald Trump. Yeah, these are two good suggestions. Anyone else? Yes. Maybe not a good one, but Greta Thumburg. Okay, why?

Like, she creates discord between people who seek, like, money without, like, looking at the earth, like, environmental. So she creates division between people who believe in environment and people who just make money in billionaires. Right, but is she the root of this conflict? Is she the cause of this conflict? Yes? Yeah, just media in general, I guess, it's like the biggest polarizing factor. Right.

Any media for newspapers, movies, maybe even. Right, media, sure. Yeah, just media. Right, I'm looking for a name, guys, okay? You can't put media into hell. You have to put a person in the hell, yes? maybe Nick Fuentes for his accusing Jewish people

is of Zionist Yeah I I think that's a good choice as well Nick Fuentes, yes Right, yes Right Just following his idea I was gonna say Charlie Kirk

Some people believe that Yes Right Depends on your politics But some people do believe that Yes Um Schism though

Like this idea is schism What are we skisksksum What are we skiskski Like we're separating. Yeah, that's a good point. What are we separating from? Right. So the best choice would be Donald Trump because he caused a schism in the Republican Party, right?

Between conservative Republicans and MAGA, right? That's a pretty good. But according to Dante, this is schisming from God, right? I mean there's- Not necessarily. Not necessarily, no. Right? Because Caesar and Pompeii didn't believe in God.

God. Right. Okay. All right. So this is, this is an exercise. Okay. It's like, like, like, like it's not political commentary. Yes. All right. Yes. All right. Let's keep on going. Conto 29. So many souls and such outlandish wounds had made my eyes inebriate. They long to stay and weep. But Virgil said to me, why are you staring so insistently? Why does your vision lingered there below among the lost and mutilated shadows. You did not do so at the other moats. If you would count them all, consider. Twenty-two miles make up the circuit of the valley.

The moon already is beneath our feet. The time allotted to us now is short, and there's more to see than you see here. Had you, I answered him without a pause, been able to consider why I looked. You might have granted me a longer stay. Meanwhile, my guide had moved ahead. I went behind him answering as I walked.

on and adding in that hollow upon which just now I kept my eyes intent I think a spirit born of my own blood laments the guilt which down below costs one so much at this my master said don't let your thoughts about him interrupt you from here on attend to other things let him stay there for I saw him below the little bridge his finger pointing at you threatening and heard him called by name Jerry Debello but at that moment you were occupied with him who once with lord of Codafor he did not notice Jerry he moved off my guide it was his death by violence for which he still is not avenged i said by anyone who shares his shame that made him so

distasteful now and i suppose for this he left without a word to me and this has made me pity him the more and so we talked until we found the first point of the ridge that if there were more light would show the other valley to the bottom when we had climbed above the final cloister of of malibultery so that its lay brothers were able to appear before our eyes. I felt the force of strange laments like arrows whose shafts are barbed with pity, and at this I had to place my hands across my years, just like the sufferings that all the sake of Valdequianus hospitals, mermaens, sardinas from July until September, would muster if assembled in one ditch, so was it here, and such a stench rose up as usually comes from festering limbs.

And keeping always to the left, we climbed down to the final bank of the Long Ridge, and then my sight could see more vividly into the bottom. Where unerring justice, the minister of the High Lord punishes the falsifiers she had registered. I do not think that there was greater grief in seeing all Aegean as people sick. Then when the air was so infected that all animals down to the little worm collapsed, and afterward as poets hold to be the certain truth, those ancient peoples received their health again, through seed of ants. Then I felt when I saw in that dark valley the spirit languishing and scattered heaps,

some lay upon their belly, some upon the shoulders of another spirit, some crawled on all fours along that squalid road. We journeyed step by step without a word watching and listening to those sick souls, who had not strength enough to live themselves. I saw two sitting propped against each other as Pan is propped on Pan to heat them up, heat them up and each from head to foot spotted with scabs and i have never seen a stable boy whose master waits for him or one who stays awake reluctantly so ply a horse with curricone as they assailed themselves with clawing nails their itching had such force and fury and there was no other help and so that nails kept scraping off the scabs just as the knife scrapes off the scales of carp or of another fish with scales more large oh you who use your nails to strip yourself my guide began to say to one of them and sometimes have to turn them into pincers tell us if there are some

italians among the sinners in this moat so may your nails hold out eternal at their work we too who you see so desigured here we're italians one said in tears but who are you who have inquired of us my guide replied from circle down to circle together with this living man i'm one who descends i mean to show him how at this their mutual support broke off and quivering each spirit turned toward me with other who by chance had heard his words then my good master drew more close to me saying now tell them what is it what it is you want and i began to speak just as he wished so that your memory may never fade within the first world from the minds of men but still live on and under many sons do tell me who you are and from what city and do not let your vile and filthy torment make you a to let me know your names. One answered me. My city was Arezzo, and Albaro Siena had me burned,

but what I died for does not bring me here. It's true that I had told him, jestingly. I'd know enough to fly through air, and he with curiosity but little sense wished me to show that art to him, and just because I had not made him Dadellas, had one who held him as a son burned me. but minos who cannot mistake condemned my spirit to the final pouch of ten for alchemy i practised in the world and then i asked the poet was there ever so vain a people as the siennese even the french can't match such vanity at this the other leper who had heard me replied to what i said except for stricca for he knew how to spend most frugally and niccolo the first to make men see that clothes can serve

as luxury, such seed and gardens where its suits can take fast fruit, and two, Kacadashano's company with him he squandered vineyards and tiled fields, while Abolieto showed such subtlety. But if you want to know who joins you so against the Sienese, look hard at me, that way my face can also answer lightly, and see that I'm the shade of that Capochio, whose alchemy could counterfeit fine metals. And you, if I correct, take your measure. Recall how at I was at aping nature. Okay, all right, so this is really interesting because we've reached the lowest area of hell. And this area is reserved for those who engage in alchemy.

Okay? Now, alchemy is something that's very common back at this time. Alchemy is basically trying to find, trying to turn lead into gold. It's trying to find the elixir of youth or immortality. So you're trying to do chemistry, basically. Why would this be the worst sin in the circle of fraud? What's the issue with this? We know why thievery is an issue. We know why identity theft is an issue.

We understand all this. But why would alchemy be an issue? In fact, it's the worst thing you can do in fraud, yes? Because it gives people false hope and such that people waste their life are pursuing something that is not real. Right. But then you can argue that Harrison,

see is the same thing, right? Yes, yes. So is it because of like these alchemists they actually feed some of like what you want? For example, they feed your greed. They feed like this

your want of, for example, love or immortality. Right, but all people who commit fraud do that, right? Why are they the worst of all these fraudsters? Did you, it's like you're trying to change the whole fabric of the world

you're trying to bend everything for your wants and desires yes you're trying to change the loss of God okay it's not that you're not going to succeed but the fact that you're trying the fact that people are helping you try that's a problem it's a bad example okay so before we were discussing society right the lost society and how people warp society with fraud but now with alchemy you're trying to warp nature with fraud okay and that's even worse okay doesn't make sense right uh yes this is a bit of a weird question but i saw some thought of some parallels but would you say like for example today

the striving and working towards AI is kind of like old alchemy because we're trying to Exactly. It's, it's, it's, AI is alchemy, guys. Yes, you're exactly right, okay? Uh, yes. How about nuclear energy? It is, it is alchemy. It is, it is, it is complete, complete alchemy, yes, that's right, yes.

How about moon landing? It's also considered as alchemy? What do you think? Excuse me? Moon landing, moon landing. Um, it's not alchemy, but you're also going against the laws of nature, right? It's like ulysses falling off the, the edge of the earth, right? right? It's like, why are you in the moon, guys? Like, like, why?

There are poor people back here, okay? There's lots of problems here. Saw the problems first before you go to the moon. Okay, so it's not alchemy, but it's still problematic. Okay, but AI is 100% alchemy. Nuclear energy is also problematic. Okay, it's also alchemy. Okay? Uh, yes. But what if did, uh, that's like AI Hookedon give the people, job, give people hope, or leaving a love. Is it still the economy? It's a huge bomb, yes. Right? Yes, did you? A few decades ago, they would have said the internet is alchemy, but the internet has brought, you know, education, like this YouTube live stream, to millions of people and it also improved jobs. So is that like, would you also say the internet

is alchemy? The internet is not alchemy. But then AI is alchemy. Right, right. Okay. So, So can you try to explain the difference between AI and the internet? Like the internet facilitates normal, worldly ideas to spread, but AI is from nothing creating... What does the AI stand for? That's alchemy, guys.

Creating intelligence artificially, right? Turning lead into gold. Artificial intelligence. Yes? I guess, I mean, just taking the thesis of this whole course is to assume that this is divinity. I guess one of the things that I can see here is a warning about manipulating nature, manipulating the nature of reality itself, is that the risks that these things come with are unimaginable. It is potentially the worst.

Yeah, so the problem of our world today is like we don't think there are moral laws at work, right? We are in a post-truth world, right? We are beyond God. We can be your own God. Yes? Maybe similar to artificial intelligence is artificial insemination or genetic manipulation in order to create the perfect. That is correct, yes. Perfect offspring and numerous offspring.

Yes, you're absolutely correct. It is alchemy. That is alchemy. Yes. Yes, did you have a... Yeah. It's like, I feel curious, like, how could we, like, why we regard AI as Alchemy, but obviously he has mentioned a part of, but for me, I feel a little bit confused

because I thought, like, based on AI algorithm, it's, I know it's like artificial, it's intelligence but still it's currently those models doesn't have their own power to create this idea that never have occurred before right so like for me AI is still a tool that is more objectively like help you to search out the information that has already been exist so for my point of view AI may not like obey the law of God because it actually doesn't create something it's just like trying to sort out the information for you right right I I understand this, but for Donnie, the concern is the intent. It is the intent.

If you talk to people who work in AI, they're like, we're trying to quit God. Okay? You understand. So alchemy, right, trying to turn lead into gold. It doesn't work. We know it doesn't work. There will never be immortality. But what are all these Silicon Valley built and spending their money on?

Immortality. Right? It's not that you'll succeed, but it's like you intend to do this. Okay. Right? That's the issue. All right. Yes? So if nuclear power is alchemy is, for example, fossil fuels or like renewable energies also alchemy? Okay. So nuclear energy we can debate about. Okay.

But yeah, I would say nuclear energy is alchemy. and I think the crucial distinction is that with nuclear energy, you're entering into territory that is the very fundamental fabric of nature of the universe, right? And you don't actually know the consequences of your actions. Right? Look, there are people who believe that the entire point of the nuclear bomb is to open portals to welcome summon demons into our world. There are little people who believe that, right?

That's alchemy. Okay? So the point isn't, nuclear weapons are not meant to be a weapon. They're meant to be a portal to summon interdimensional aliens or demons into our world. Okay?

Yeah, so it's worth of intent, yes? Yeah, with this intention, then I wonder, alchemy is turning lead to gold, which is impossible by the laws of chemistry and God. The splitting of the atom is possible. We've done it. So I wonder if this intention to a thing that cannot happen is alchemy where a thing that can't happen is no different than me taking medicine for a sickness.

God put that sickness in my body. God gave me the ability to cure the sickness. The intention is there on both of them. One is within the realm of the fabric of the universe. One is clearly not. Right. Okay. So that's a really interesting comment.

Okay. And so how would Donnie respond to this? Well, you have the intention, but you're not going to succeed, so who cares? How would Donnie respond to that? you would say if there's a will there's a way you understand

so we think we cannot turn let into gold but we actually have succeeded in doing so because now we have the idea of money right what is money money is alchemy because what I've done is

I've taken a piece of paper right any piece of paper and I've turned it into gold right how is that different from alchemy I can now use this money

to go buy a house or buy a car, yes? I guess the difference would be classification. You turn that paper into wealth, but you did not turn it into gold. But what is gold? So gold is wealth, right? They're both wealth. They're both types of wealth, but you did not turn it into the physical components of gold. Well, I can tell you, I can use money by gold.

Yeah, so you turned them both into wealth. They both have value. You turn them into purchasing power, but you didn't turn it into the physical components of gold. No, no, no. But what I'm saying is, is like lead into gold, right? If I add an intermediary step, which is like to print money, then I solve the problem, right?

I can use money to buy gold, and then I can sell lead to get money. Okay? So how's that different? So I'm not saying, you know, we succeeded in the gold. I'm saying like for Dante, the concern is where there's a will, there's a way. we can never ever

underestimate the human imagination that's the animating force of the universe right so we set our intent on something and this intent is malicious then that's a sin yes yeah I also agree with the fact that

if you have a will to distort the order that God has set up to be then that's the ultimate sin just like the Tower of Babel where there's a will there's a way so people are building the Tower of Babel to reach heaven and be like we can reach God, we can't like God. Basically, it's like the first landing of the moon, like people trying to impossible, you know, going to out of space. And God was like, no, you guys are not going to do

that. We're getting new languages. So you guys are messed up so you can't do that. But that the messages is that if people so will continue, they probably can because there's a will, you know, there's a way. And so that's why God had to send us different languages to stop, you know, people working towards that go. So I think it's the same scene that's repeated here. It's like if there's a way, a whale, there's a way. So if there's a whale to replace God, right, and distort his order that he has established in the natural laws, you know,

then it's abomination. Right, okay. Yes? I think there is a kind of philosophical, but also German concept. It's called and arten, right? Right? And arten is the, you know, the nature,

to turn something into another nature to to to basically to betray your nature and a T-A-R-A-T-E-N yeah and naturalize yeah yeah so basically to to to deprive the the yeah okay that's you play better well what no but why is it Why is it a German? Basically, it's chemistry because it's basically tried to deprive the human being or the godly kingdom of its original purpose. Why is it just a German thing? Archimmy is the purpose, you know, the intent is to take over the kingdom of God, you know, whatever, humanity, and to replace this with your own personal, you know, we are. And that, I think, goes beyond the nature of, you know, the rules of nature, and then that's a crime against humanity.

Right. And we can also appreciate that these alchemists are sinful because even though they're successful, they're still, they're still, they're still, make people believe that it's possible to change the rules of nature, which leads to hubrish, which leads to a lot of, like, really bad behavior, okay? All right. Okay. So does that make sense, guys? All right, let's continue. But thank you so much for that, okay? It's a really interesting idea, and we'll come back to it later on. Because we live in an age of AI, and what I want to do as we move on is try to use Dante to better understand the most pressing issues of our time, including AI. Okay? All right, so this is Infernal 30. Conto 30 When Juno was in scents The Semele and thus against the Theban family

Had shown her fury time and time again Then Athamas was driven so insane That seeing both his wife and their two sons As she bore one upon each arm he cried Let's spread the nuts to take the lioness Together with her cubs along the pass And he stretched out his talents Pitilas and snatched the son

Who bore the name Laercas Whirled him around and dashed him on a rock. She, with her other burden, drowned herself. And after fortune turned against the pride of Troy, who had dared also that the king, together with his kingdom, was destroyed. Then Hecuba was wretched, sad, a captive, and after she had seen Polysena dead in misery, had recognized her Polidorus lying on the shore, she barked out of her senses like a dog. Her agony had so deformed her mind. But neither fury, thieving Trojan ever was seen to be so cruel against another in rending beasts and even human limbs,

as were two shades I saw both pale naked, who biting ran berserk in just the way a hog does when it slits loose from its thigh. The one came at Capuchio and sank his tusks into his neck so that by dragging he made the hard ground scrape against his belly. and he who stayed behind the Aratini trembled and said that phantoms Johnny Sneaky and he does raging rending others so he goes raging rending others so

and oh I said to him so may the other not sink its teeth in you please tell me who it is before it hurries off from here and he to me that is the ancient soul of the indecent mirror she who loved her father past the limits of just love

she came to sin with him by falsely taking another shape upon herself, just as the other phantom who goes there had done, that he might gain the lady of the herd when he disguised himself as Boasso Donati, making a will as if most properly. And when the pair of raging ones had passed, those two on whom my eyes were fixed, I turned around to see the rest of the ill-born. I saw one who had been fashioned like a lute if he had only had his groin cut up. off from that part of his body were at forks. The heavy dropsy, which so deport this proportions the limbs with unassimilated humors that there's no match between the face and belly, had made him part his lips like a consumptus, who will, because of thirst, let one lip drop down to his chin and lift the other up. Oh, you exempt from every punishment in this grim world, and I do not know why, he said to us, look now and pay attention to this, the misery of master Adam alive. I had enough of all I wanted, alas,

I now long for one drop of water. The rivulets that fall into the Arno down from the green hills of the Cassantino with channels cool and moist are constantly before me. I'm racked by memory. The image of their flow parches me more than the disease

that robs my face of flesh. Flesh. The rigid justice that would torment me uses as most appropriate, the place where I had sin, to draw swift sides from me. There's Romina. There I counterfeited the currency that bears the Baptist seal.

For this I left my body burned above. But could I see the miserable souls of Guido, Alessandro, or their brother? I'd not give up the sight for Fonte Branda, and one of them is in this moat already. If what the angry shades report is true, what uses that to me whose limbs are tied? Why is so light that in a hundred years

I could advance an inch, I should already be well upon the road to search for him among the mutilated ones, although the circuit measures some 11 miles and is at least a half mile across. Because of them, I'm in this family. It was those three who had incited me to coin the florence with three carrots draws. And I to him, who are those two poor sinners who give off smoke like wet hands in the winter and lie so close to you upon the right? I found them here, he answers. when I rain down to this rocky slope, they've not stirred sins and will not move, I think, eternally. One is the lying woman who blamed Joseph, the other lying Sinan, Greek from joy, because of raging fever they wreak so. And one of them who seemed to take offense, perhaps of being named so squalidly, struck with his fist at Adam's rigid belly.

It sounded as if it had been a drum, and Master Adam struck him in the face, using his arm which did not seem less hard, saying to him, although I cannot move my limbs because they're too heavy, I still have an arm that's free to serve that need. And he replied, but when you went to burning, your arm was not as quick as it was now, though when you coined it was as quick and more, to which the dropseed one, here you speak true, but you were not so true a witness there when you were asked to tell the truth at Troy. If I spoke false, you falsified the coin, said Senan. i'm here for just one crime but you've committed more than any demon do not forget the horse you perjurer replied the one who had the bloated belly may you be plagued because the whole world knows this the greek and you be plagued by thirst that cracks your tongue in putrid water that has made your belly such a hedge before your eyes and then the coiner so as usual your mouth because of racking fever gapes

for if i thirst and if my humerus bloats me you have both dryness and a head that aches few words would be sufficient imitation to have you lick the mirror of narcissus i was intent on listening to them when this was what my master said if you insist on looking more i'll quarrel with you and when I heard him speak so angrily, I turn around to him with shame so great that it still stirs within my memory. Even as one who dreams that he is harmed and dreaming, wishes he were dreaming, thus desiring that which is as if it were not. So I became within my speechlessness. I wanted to excuse myself and did excuse myself, although I knew it not. Less shame would wash away a greater fault than was your fault, my master said to me. Therefore, release yourself from all remorse and see that I'm always at your own. your side, should it so happen once again that fortune brings you where men would quarrel in

this fashion. To want to hear such bickering is base. Okay. All right. So this is very complicated conto. There are lots of individuals and there's a lot going on. Okay. So in this last area of the circle of fraud, there are lots of people who are condemned here. Okay. They are, of course, the alchemist, then you have um, imposter's people who steal people's identity. Then you have counterfeiters. And so

first of all, why do we have? Actually, you know what, Carol? Can you even favor in Google this? Like, um, who's actually in, uh, Conto 30? So, so, so, so, so, so I want to make sure I'm correct here, okay? I want to make sure. Because this is a very confusing conto.

And there are lots of different individuals. Okay? So let's see who they are. Okay. So these are the falsifiers, yes. You have Master Adam, who's a counterfeiter. You have a spy who's a false witness. You have Gianna Sitsi, who is a imposter.

And you have Mara, Mara. Okay? And so the two people who have an argument are, Sinan and Master Adam, right? Master Adam is a counterfeiter and Sanon is a Greek spy who convinced the Trojans to take in the Trojan horse. And having an argument about who is worse. Gianni Setschi, he is an imposter who disguised himself as a dead person.

Okay. So, first of all, what is the connection among all these people, the falsifiers? It's a very confusing section. You have a counterfeiter, you have a spy, you have an imposter, you have Mara who disguised herself to commit incest

for her own father. Oh. What's going on here? Maybe this is just a garbage heap of hell, right? Like you don't belong in any other categories You just dumped here But that's not Dante, right? We already said that Dante

There's a lot of intentionality There's a lot of creativity There's a lot of imagination. So what is he doing here? All right. So let's look at certain things that happens. Okay? So the alchemist

Who suffers some leprosy Okay? Their punishment is leprosy. Gianni, the imposter, he sinks his teeth into the leper. What does this signify, do you think? And again, it's all speculation, guys.

We don't know, okay? We don't actually know what the allegorical meaning is. We're just speculating here. Okay? But there's this violent scene where the imposter, Gianni, he sinks his teeth into the alchemist and tries to eat him. Yes. So imposter basically is a person who tried to steal

somebody else identity and so this uh this uh you know a appropriate uh punishment or educational course for them is to to to to let them sink their uh you know to consume the identity of a very evil person so that they will uh it will be situated okay yeah so um the thing though is that the arguments is a leopard okay and at this time in history who does everyone want to avoid lepers okay so uh the punishment for this imposter is uh he's forced to just randomly eat people including those who are lepers okay okay so that makes sense why would master adam who's a counterfeiter why would he argue with synon about who's worse and this is actually the first time in divine we see an argument between two souls, right?

These two sinners. And they're arguing about like, who's worse? Right? Well, I mean, like, technically they're all, they're all equally bad, right? Because they're in the same area of hell. So what are they arguing about? Let's just force some possibilities, okay? Like, just speculate.

Just use your imagination. Pro ideas out here. Let's just brainstorm together, okay? You have a counterfeiting, you have a spy arguing about who's worse. How would they do that? Yes? Because each of them feel like the other one shouldn't be at the same level where they are, you know?

They're like every one of them feel like they're superiors and or like they're condemned this like, uh, lesser scenes than the others. Yeah, yeah. So they're different, right? And they're trying to figure out like why they're together and they kind of piss that they're together. Yes. Yes? Like the alchemists, they both changed the nature of reality.

So Master Adam, he basically changed, he like, he changed money, basically, right? Or like, he made fake money, so he changed the nature of money. Yes. And Sinon changed, I mean, he basically, yeah, made, made the Trojans believe that it's a horse that is a present, right, for the Trojans, even though it basically destroyed Troy. So he changed also their nature of reality. Yeah.

So the similarity is that both are changing the perception of reality, right? Both are manipulating the perception of reality. They're not alchemists who are manipulating reality itself. but they are changing people's perception of reality, right? One, by creating counterfeit coins and taking advantage of people's reliance on money, and the other is giving false testimony or lying in order to create different reality. okay so once a counterfeiter and another is basically like one of these fake news reporters right uh yes i wonder if maybe the counterfeiter doesn't fit but an impersonator is a form of theft but it's a specific you're

stealing someone's identity and which would be like god's creation you're stealing something from god because god created you in your identity where if i stole your wallet didn't create that okay so why are they all together right these are all the falsifiers they're and all different yes they all pray on people's trust they all pray on people's trust they think of angel people's trust but this is an entire circle right yes they're all manipulating a larger trust so money is it's not just trust between individuals is trust by society, right?

What's the other one? The Trojan horse, this is, you know, you're ending an entire civilization. Right. Altering the course of history. Right. I think this could be a step

more than alchemy because instead of changing objects, you're impersonating, Mira impersonated as a different person to sleep with her father. Right. And I guess it's something that's supposedly created by God is transformed into something that you can't trust. So you're not just manipulating objects and soulless things.

You are manipulating things that supposedly have a soul. Yes. Okay. Right. Or in another word, whereas in the lesser sinners, they might be stealing things or destroying people's trust. These group of sinners, they create a false trust. Yes, of course. Which could be, you know, meta-trust, a meta-severy, which is a higher level of

Yes. Okay. Yes. For alchemy, we said that to an extent it's futile because it's to do with your will, but I'm not sure the exact history of all these people, but did they actually succeed in doing it? But how do they succeed? What allowed them succeed in a way that alchemists cannot succeed? Alchemists want to change in nature. They want to change the fabric of nature, right? You can't do that. That's not what we can do. What word is crucial to Dante that we have not used today and basically yesterday? Consciousness, maybe.

Why consciousness is important? Because what do we do with the consciousness? It's our connection with God. Consciousness or imagination. In imagination, okay? All right. So one possibility, okay, and I'm just putting this out there for us to discuss, okay? is that what these four people have in common is hijacking the imagination.

Does that make sense? Okay? So remember, in paradise, the imagination is what makes us unique. It's what makes us co-creators with God, right? It's what allows the universe to expand outwards. But you could also use your imagination for evil, right? And when you use it for evil, what happens the universe contracts? You're limiting people's imaginative space.

Doesn't make sense. You're hijacking the imagination for evil ends. That brings evil to the world. Right? And before, we always thought that imagination is a good thing. Well, it should be a good thing. And you can use it to create poetry, to create society. society, but there are people who can hijack people's imaginations to create evil in this world, right?

Does that make sense? So as a counterfeiter, what you're doing is you're hijacking people's imagination that this money is very valuable, right? As a spy, you're hijacking people's imagination that people tell the truth. The imposter hijacks people's imagination that only we can write our own wills. So they're all hijacking the imagination in some way. And if you think about it, for Dante, this would be a lot worse than trying to hijack nature. Okay?

And this is interesting because in our society, then who are like the worst people? To me? No, not really. That would be like lost against, acting against, in nature, right? It'd be like sodomy and incest. It'd be in a circle of violence. But this circle of fraud, yes? Influencers on social media? I think so. I think so. I think that's what Donne is saying here.

Okay. And I could be wrong, but it sounds like social media influencers, people with like huge followings, but not me, of course. They're the worst people because they're hijacking the social consciousness. They're hijacking the social imagination. Okay? I'm not any names because I'll get in trouble, but yes, you can imagine certain people, right? Okay. So that's what he's saying here. Any yes? Yeah, because I heard in America, the highest, the hierarchical crime is not killer. It's just the people who manipulate others and try to let them believe that the lie is truth. Look, I mean, like, this is hard for people in China to appreciate, but media people are really powerful in America.

You know, it's not true in China. Media people in China have absolutely no power. But in America, if you work in the media, you're really, really powerful. Okay. Yesterday, one of the participants mentioned that in Hydean, the biggest crime is fraud. So, I mean, a lot of fraud happens when some voice, AI voice impersonates a father. a mother or son or daughter to get money from someone right exactly right um right so so so so you are with your social media influence you could hijack the imagination of millions of people

so yeah i i think that's what he's saying here i could be wrong okay but i'm trying to figure out what these four people have in common because they're so different on the surface right okay all right uh let's continue count two three one. The very tongue that first had wounded me sending the color up and both my cheeks was then to cure me with its medicine. As to the Coole's and his father's lands, even as I have heard when it dispensed a sad stroke first and then a healing one. We turned our backs upon that dismal valley by climbing up the bank that girdles it. We made our way across without a word. Here it was less than night and less than day so that my sight could only move ahead slightly. But then I heard a bugle blast so

strong, it would have made a thunder-clab seem faint. At this, my eyes, which doubled back upon their path turned fully toward one place, not even Roland's bourne, which followed on the sad defeat when Charlemagne had lost his holy army was as dread as this. I'd only turned my head there briefly when I seemed to make out many high towers, and I asked him, Master, tell me, what's the city? And he to me, it is because you try to penetrate from far into these shadows that you have formed such faulty images. When you have reached that place, you shall see clearly how much the distance

has deceived your sense, and therefore let this burr you on your way. Then lovingly he took me by the hand and said, before we have moved farther on so that the fact may seem less strange to you, I'd have you know they're not towers but giants, and from the navel downward, all of them are in the central pit at the embankment.

Just as whenever mists begin to thin, when gradually visual, finds the form that in the vapor thickened air was hidden. So I pierced through the dense and darkened fog, as I drew always nearer to the shore. My air fled from me, my terror grew. For as on its ground wall, Monteregione is crowned with towers, so they're towered here above the bank that runs around the pit,

with half their bulk the terrifying giants, whom Jove still menaces from heaven, when he sends his bolts of thunder down upon them. And I could now make out the face of one, his shoulders and his chest much of his belly, and both his arms that hung along his sides. Surely when she gave up the art of making such creatures, nature acted well indeed,

depriving Mars of instruments like these, and if she still produces elephants and whales, whoever sees with subtlety holds her for this to be more just and prudent. And where the mind's acutest reasoning is joined to evil, will and evil power. Their human beings can't defend themselves. His face appeared to me as broad and long as Rome can claim for its St. Peter's pine cone, his other bones shared in that same proportion. So that the bank, which served him as an apron down from his middle, showed so much of him

above that three Frieslanders would in vain have boasted of their reaching to his hair. For downward from the place where one would buckle a mantle, I saw 30 spans of his. Raffelmaeimé, Emack, Zabi al-me, began to bellow that brute mouth, for which no sweeter psalms would be appropriate. And my guide turned to him, O stupid soul, keep to your horn and use that as an outlet when rage or other passion touches you. Look at your neck, and you will find the strap that holds it fast, and see bewildered spirit how it lies straight across your massive chest. And then to me, he's his own accuser, for this is Nimrod, through whose wicked thought once said, single language cannot serve the world.

Leave him alone. Let's not waste time and talk. For every language is to him the same as his to others. No one knows his tongue. So Nimrod, of course, is the man who built the Tower of Babel, right? And for his crime, he now, whatever he says is is gibberish, okay? He's incomprehensible. Okay, keep on going.

So turning to the left, we journeyed on, and at the distance of a, bow, shot, found another giant far more huge and fierce, who was the master who had tied him so. I cannot say, but his left arm was bent behind him and his right was bent in front, both pinioned by a chain that held him tight down from the neck and round the part of him that was exposed. It has been wound five times. This giant in his arrogance had tested his force against the force of highest jove, my guide said, so he merits this reward. His name is Ifialtis, and he showed me.

tremendous power and the giants frightened the gods. The arms he moved now moved no more. An eye to him. If it is possible, I'd like my eyes to have experience of the enormous one, Brierias, at which he answered, you shall see Antias nearby. He's unfettered and can speak. He'll take us to the bottom of all evil. The one you wish to see lies far beyond, and is bound up and just as huge as this one, and even more ferocious in his gaze. No earthquake ever was so violent when called to shake a tower so robust as the fialties quick to shake himself then i was more afraid of death than ever that fear would have been quite enough to kill me had i not seen how he was held by chains and we continued on until we reached antheus who not reckoning his head stood out out above the rock wallful five ls oh you who looked within the famous valley where shippio became the air of glory where hennibal were treated with his men who took a thousand lions as your prey and had you been together with your brothers in their high war it seems some still believe the sons of earth would have become the victors do set us down below where cold shuts and cossitus and do not disdain that task do not send don't send us on to tis tithias or typhan this man can

give you what is long for here, therefore bend down and do not curl your lip. He still can bring you fame within the world, for he's alive and still expects long life, unless Grace summoned him before his time. So said my master, and in haste, anthea, stretched out his hand whose massive grip had once been felt by Hercules, and grasped my guide. And Virgil, when he felt himself caught up, called out to me, come here so I can hold you, then made one bundle of himself and me. Just as the garrisenda seems, when seen beneath the leaning side, when clouds went past and it hangs down as of about to crash,

so did Andy as seemed to me as I watched him bend over me, a moment when I have preferred to take some other road. But gently, on the deep that swells up both Lucifer and Judas, he placed us, nor did he, so bent over his day there long. but like a mast above a ship, he rose. Okay, so now we are now entering the final circle of hell. One comment is that Dante creates symmetry, right? So remember, in paradise, what leads us to the Imperium are these angels, right?

And now, as we enter the final circle, it's these giants that lead us. the way. I just fold this out there, okay? Why giants in hell, why angels in heaven? It's obvious for angels in heaven, but why giants in hell? And again, you just have to use your imagination because there's no answer, okay?

You're going to literally look at footnotes, and they won't ever tell you why they're using giants instead of, instead of, like, I don't know, other things, okay? Dutante, he demands your imagination, yes. It's kind of like how ants are afraid of humans. We're afraid of things that are giant in size and much bigger than us. Okay.

Yes? It's also just ironic, because giants we usually associate with greatness and good things, but this time they're taking us to a bad place. Okay. What are giants made of? Clay, rocks, right? What is hell made of? Bobby Clay and Rock.

right what are angels made of divine light right what is heaven made of divine light so so I think that's that's what what's happening here okay these giants are a literal expression of the landscape of hell and the angels are a little literal expression of the landscape of heaven okay they're a manifestation of the elements that make heaven and hell possible that's my guess I also think that with let's say goodness and sin or perverseness of goodness, there's something that's insatiable about falling into the abyss. And it's almost like a snowball that snowballs down

that I think it just gets heavier and keeps you down. Yes, that's really interesting, exactly, right? So yeah, the angels are light. The giants are obviously heavy, right? And maybe that's a metaphor for sin, where the sin, if you commit one sin, you keep on doing another until it becomes a giant, right? The sin becomes a giant. Yes? And I also notice that the giants are basically silent, so they don't speak, they don't speak much.

And I remember that the angels, they're often described as, like, they sing a lot. Yes. And so I think like both angels and giants, they don't really like speak human languages. But like in heaven, the soul is elevated into an expression of harmony and music. Whereas in hell it's basically like um Like numbness and like silence That's beautiful. Yeah, that's burn actually. This is something I would have never come up with, okay?

So both Carol and you would like, this is great, yes, okay? And that's what Divine Comedy is asking us to do to constantly use our imagination. Okay, Don himself actually doesn't know what he's trying to do. Okay, he's just trying to excite our imagination. Yes. And also another point is, is that the angels, if they're singing, it's like high vibration, high pitch, right?

And then if the giants aren't speaking, it's low vibration, right? You think about the etymology of discord is literally discord. And accord is harmony, which is the opposite of what you just mentioned with heavenly music. Wow. Okay. Okay, this is like really interesting now. Okay, yes. Any other thoughts or comments? Okay, so again, that's why Inferno, the Divine Comedy, it's really the world's best literature,

because it's constantly forcing us to imagine new possibilities. Okay, all right, so let's keep on going to 32. Conto 32. Had I, the crude, and scranal rhymes to suit the melancholy whole upon which all the other circling, crags, converge, and rest. the juice of my conception would be pressed more fully, but because I feel their lack, I bring myself to speak yet speak in fear.

Okay, right. So that's why this music idea is so important, right? Because in heaven, it's this pure singing. Here it's, there's music, but it's like sighing and men are calling and groaning and despair and apathy, okay? So you can hear the music, but it's one of hell. Okay, keep on going. For it is not a task to turn.

taken just to show the base of all the universe, not for a tongue that cries out, Mama, Papa. But may those ladies now sustain my verse who helped Amphion when he walled up thieves, so that my tail not differ from the fact. Oh, rabble, miscreated past all others, there in the place of which it's hard to speak. Better if here you had not been goats or sheep. When we were down below in the dark well beneath the giant's feet and lower yet, with my eyes still upon the steep embankment, I heard this said to me, Watch how you pass, walk so that you not trample with your souls, the heads of your exhausted wretched brothers.

At this I turned and saw in front of me beneath my feet a lake that frozen fast had lost the look of water and seamed glass. Okay, all right. Okay, so this is why Dante is such a genius. We are at the very heart of hell. And when you think of hell, you think of like fire and windstorm, right? And instead, at the very heart of hell, is a frozen lake. Okay? And so, he's just shocking.

He's revolutionary. So, this is something that we'll think a lot more about tomorrow, okay? When I end Inferno and discuss why is it that at the center of hell, it's a frozen lake rather than this raging fire, as we would expect. We will also meet Lucifer. And you would think that Lucifer is a king of hell. But we actually meet Lucifer, he's not really the king of hell, okay? So lots of contradictions, lots of paradoxes. And we will start to unravel them tomorrow.

So we'll finish inferno tomorrow morning and we'll start prototory tomorrow afternoon. And so please review what we've learned. Please go ahead and read Finish Inferno and read the first five contos of Procatory. I want to thank everyone for the great discussion today. I actually learned a lot from everyone today. A lot of your comments just blew my mind, okay? I'm going to go home and think a lot more about some of your comments and some of your ideas. But that's the ideal seminar, right?

where we're all learning from each other, where we're all contributing our own individuality to the larger discussion. So thank you so much and great job today, okay? I'll say everyone tomorrow.