Predictive History - The Story of "Civilization", "Secret History", "Game Theory" and more - Dante #9: Hell Cantos 32-34, Purgatory Cantos 1-4

Episode Date: August 22, 2026

Watch on YouTube: https://link-to-youtube.s.gy/dante09

Okay, good morning. Welcome back. Any questions or comments from yesterday? Yes? Yeah, I did a, I got, went down a rabbit hole about Ulysses. And it's, it's, it's rife in the academic sources about like, nobody really agrees on what Ulysses is doing in there and why all academics seem to be contingent on this. He's in the realm of false counselors. And he obviously he went on the boat trip and convinced his men, we need to go to the end of the world.

And he gave false counselor to them, but it's just a boatload of men. There's no reason why giving false counselor to 50 people would end him in this level of hell. And when the few places that they seem to be an agreement on is that through Homer and then Verde, Virgil's Neid and then Dante's inferno, he ends up to Dante himself. He's essentially giving counsel to the ages on go beyond your means.

Have this, what is it, this Godlike pride to go beyond God's limits, like what Adam ends up doing. And some academics have him as like he's suffering for Dante's sin because Dante has this arrogance that you keep speaking about. And so they find certain points in the canto to really point that out. But I thought it was important because I had a college professor who spoke about Lord Alfred Tennyson's poem on Ulysses. Right. And it finishes with Ulysses is an old man.

And he's sitting with his son, Telemachus. And he's like, oh, I'm so sad. And the final line is, I'm made weak by time and fate, but strong and will to strive, to seek, to find. and not to yield. And Tennyson is essentially doing what Homer has done, which is like maybe there's some nobility in both, but you're sitting next to your son who you've abandoned your whole life. Yeah.

Like appreciate your son and quit going on out. And this college professor brought it up because that final quote would be on pictures on students' walls with like the moon landing and stuff. And students were like, yeah, get it? like always go out go beyond your means be victor frankenstein um and he's like humanity's taking the wrong message that everybody has been trying to tell us now and so it's it's effective dante puts him there because he essentially is a false counselor to all of humanity up until today right okay

all right so that's really interesting um so let me make some comments first of all ulysses is there where he has been punished not because um um He sailed away from his family. It's because of the Trojan horse, right? So he counseled the Greeks to devise the Trojan horse. And that's what he's punished for, and that's pretty explicit in the divine comedy. That's point one.

Okay? Not for misleading his men to their deaths, but for advising the Greeks to use the Trojan horse, which destroyed Troy, which is, and they are the ancestors to the Russians. Romans. That's point one. Point two is that what we need to remember is that at this time in history, Dona doesn't have access to Homer. He knows Ulysses for the Inniad. Because in the Ineat, it says explicitly that Ulysses advised the Greeks on the Trojan horse, him and Diomedes, and that's why they're shoving together. Point three is that if you actually read Homer's Odyssey, it's a very different take on Odysseus. I've taught the Odyssey. I've taught the Odyssey.

and the Odyssey is ultimately not about a journey outward, but a journey home to his family. And he comes home and realizes that what really matters is family, and it's a family reunion. So it goes counter, it's really interesting, but it goes counter to the popular Western narrative that Ulysses. He is a romantic wanderer or explorer. So what I should have done is actually taught Homer, then taught Virgil, then taught Dante. It's a straight legacy, okay? Virgil is responded to Homer, and then Dante is responding to Virgil. And what's really interesting is that Dante never read Homer, because at this time, you can't access the Greek.

But Homer and Dante agree on everything. So it's almost like Don is the second coming of Homer. So it's really interesting that that way. Yes? Maybe Virgil intentionally tried to make Homer and the Odyssey look bad because they wanted to, or he wanted to kill the Greek culture, right? So he wanted to replace it with the Roman culture, and so he can like, he talks bad about the Odyssey and...

Exactly. And this is something we'll go more into later on. remember from last class we talked about how the counterfeiter was arguing with Sannan, the man who tricked the Trojans in the Lenin on the Trojan horse. They were arguing who is worse. And it was virtual who created St. Sinan, right? So basically we think about it, if you just use your imagination, there's a kind of fitting of coin and then there's a counterfeiting of poetry, right?

So what he's really saying is, okay, master, I'm saying to sign on, hey, maybe I counterfeited coin, but you counterfeited someone's poetry. You plagiarized someone's poetry. Isn't that much worse than counterfeiting coins? Because at this time in history, remember, counterfeiting coins is a really serious crime, especially in Florence, because they're very proud of their currency, which is considered pure gold. Right? So we'll go back that section, but yeah, but that's good point, okay? Any more points? Yes? So last night I was reading journal entry by Manly P. Hall.

Right, yes. And it's just... They're cultus. Yeah, and it's his commentary on the Divine Comedy. And what I thought was interesting relating to the question we discussed towards the end of class about why is hell frozen and it's not moving? Is he separately not related to that question says, and I quote, emotional desire or restlessness is the unsatisfied impulse of all creation to reach identity with the divine

motion must continue until no interval remains between consciousness and the infinite and then a few sentences later says man is the self moved by the power of will and desire so if we if we think of then hell again if there's no movement and it's all frozen then surely that implies that it's because we're so deep in the inferno that there is so little will and desire and you're so far from connecting with the divine yeah exactly they basically given up on themselves right so it's really interesting and I'll point out that occultists do read the divine comedy literally like they they really believe that Dona had a near-death experience or had visions of the afterlife and they do take him literally and

today we will go into Dramatic possession which is something that they're really concerned about, right? Is it possibly to be possessed by angels and demons? And Dante refers to this in Inferno. We'll discuss this in death, okay? But yeah, the occult is really important idea. Occultist love Dante. Yes? Yes, so yesterday I thought more about the Dante putting people who hijack our imagination lower than people who murder someone. Or commit genocide, right? I'm in the great community genocide. And like, yes.

And so what I don't understand is that does murdering not like kill someone's entire capacity to imagine anything? Because you can't imagine if you're in hell or in paradise, right? Like you can't because you don't have a body and you don't have like worldly experiences. So like you can't imagine at all. And like if you hijacked, imagine. Okay, but like you can still like get your imagination back if it's hijacked, right? But you can't get it back if you dead. Yeah.

So does like a follow-up question would be if Dante believes in reincarnation, maybe so that's like a solution to that. Okay. Yeah. So Donnie does say there's reincarnation in paradise when Beatrice is talking to him and saying, look, your souls are immortal, right? That's explicit in divine comedy. Your souls are immortal. So starting does believe in the immortality of the soul. But to answer your question, what's really important to understand is that for Dante,

hell, earth, and heaven correspond with each other. And what's really important is to maintain the dynamic creativity of the universe. basically maintains, maintain our capacity to imagine, okay, because that's a life force of the universe. And when you reduce people from the world, that doesn't actually reduce the imaginative life force from the world because it's possible that a few people have the imagination, right? So Dante is very imaginative and he's able to change society through his imagination. So one person, as long as this one person maintains his capacity for imagination, the entire universe still revolves, okay? It still moves.

The problem with counterfeiting or hijacking the imagination is that you're reducing the universe's overall capacity to be imaginative. Okay, does that make sense? So this is a counterintuitive idea, but what matters is not a sum total of life. in the universe what matters is a sum total of imagination in the universe and when you counterfeit the imagination and disrupt the um connection between human and the divine then that reduces the overall imagination in the universe and therefore it reduces the total life force in the universe yes so if dante would have been killed then there would have been another dante at some point probably um exactly i i think i think that's what dante would say but the same time he's

explicit about this right he is on a divine mission right in hell he doesn't have to fear the demon he doesn't have to fear uh anything because god has willed it right so when he wrote the divine comedy it's like i don't fear dying halfway and not complete divine comedy i don't fear my marriage is being burned i don't fear being brought the script because god has willed it you understand and it's this complete faith that allows him to access the vine and complete the divine karma that's something that many hall would say as well right okay uh yes what was it that allowed farinata to imagine that his son was dead in that if the satan frozen in the bottom of the hell cannot imagine anything what mechanism was it that allowed farinata to because i remember

that he says that he cannot notice things that are close to them but can't and sense things that are long past or long to come. If in hell imagination is stripped away, how could, what mechanism did Dante leverage to get Farinata to believe that Guido was dead? Right, that's a really good point, okay? So this is a really hard question, and I'll try my best,

but I think there's a difference between the imagination and the emotion, okay? The emotion is your connection with other people. You're longing for your son, you're longing for your wife, you're longing for for God, okay? And the emotion can never be extinguished because it's tied to the soul. So even though Ferenato doesn't have the capacity to imagine, he does have the capacity to long for his son, right?

And that's why when Donny said to him, your son is burning the hell, it's so anguishing for Ferenato because, No, no, it was not for now. It's kind of a kind of content. It's kind of a content. And he lacks the imagination to think that Donny could be lying. Okay. Here in hell, it's not possible for the souls to imagine that others could be deceiving them. And so he falls into tremendous anguish. It doesn't make sense. It's just a difference between the imagination and the emotion, love, right? Love is the unifying force of the universe.

The imagination is the animating force of the universe. And the imagination is unique to us. And the imagination is only available to those with a body. Okay? All right. So good question. And again, like, scholars have been debating these questions for hundreds of years, literally, okay? You're going to find, like, hundreds of different commentaries online about Don.

So all we're doing is we're speculating here. Okay? Any more? This is great, by the way. Yes? So it's got me thinking, because everybody in hell doesn't want to be in hell. So there's a difference between imagination and desire. They all desire for it to stop, or is there like, is there something going on there?

Well, if you remember, when they are crossing the Akron River to come, go to hell, they desire it. I mean, Donnie is explicitly. remember the word desire right uh and don't is surprised by this like why are people desiring to go to hell and the only reason why is they think they deserve it they think they think it's a release from whatever sin they they've done and something that we'll discuss later on where if you if you think that domestic possession is possible right then you also have to think that interdimensional uh travel is possible you have to think that the soul can exist in different dimensions and when you do anything whether it's virtuous or what it's sinful

you your sin can uh trespass into other dimensions okay so like so like when you do something sinful your your soul is now locked in hell for in a certain place and and that's what dante is suggesting here where if you think about it okay the person commits a sin of lusts and now he's in the plane of lust. Are you saying that's the only sin he committed? Are you saying he did nothing else of his life? But what I think Donnie is suggesting is, like, the sin, it corrupts a sort of a certain way so that the soul is trapped in a certain plane of hell.

But to understand that, you need to also believe in the infinite dimensions of the soul and the fact that the soul exists across infinite dimensions. And whatever you do, the soul becomes more anchored in certain dimension, if that makes any sense. And again, if you read many Hall in the occultists, he does go into this, okay?

Okay, great. Yeah, okay, let's continue, please. Okay, we're a count of 32. Line 25. The denube word flows in Austria, the dawn beneath its frozen sky have never made for their course to so thick avail in winter as there was here, for had Mount Abernick or Pietropanus Mountain crashed upon it, not even at the edge would it have creaked. And as the croaking frog sits with its muzzle about the water in the season when the peasant woman often dreams of gleaning,

so live it in the ice up to the place where shame can show itself where those sad shades whose teeth were chattering with no like stork. Each kept his face bent downward steadily. Their mouth bore witness to the cold they felt, just as their eyes proclaimed their sorry hearts. When I had looked around a while, my eyes turned toward my feet and saw two locked so close the hair upon their heads had intermingled. Do tell me, you whose chest are pressed so tight, I said, who are you?

They bent back their necks, and when they lifted up their faces toward me, their eyes, which wept upon the ground before, shed tears down on their lips until the cold held fast the tears and locked their lids still more. No clamp has ever fastened plank to plank so tightly and because of this they butted each other like two rams such was their fury. And one from whom the cold had taken both his ears who kept his face bent low than said, Why do you keep on staring so at us? If you would like to know who these two are, that valley were besie Bisenzio descends belong to them and to their father Alberto. They came out of one body and you can search all Keina.

You'll never find a shade more fit to sit within this ice. Not him who, at one blow, had chest and shadows shattered by Arthur's hand and not Vukaccia and not the sinner here who so impedes my vision with his head. I can't see past him. His name was Sassol Mascaroni. If you're Tuscan now, you know who he has been. Unless you keep me talking any longer, know that I was commission de Pazzi. I'm waiting for Carlino to absolve me.

And after that I saw a thousand faces made dog like by the cold, for which I shudder, and always will when I face frozen forwards. And while we were advancing toward the center to which all weight is drawn, I shivering in that eternal cold shadow I know not evis. if it was will or destiny or chance. But as I walked among the heads, I struck my foot hard in the face of one. Weeping, he chided them,

why trample me if you've not come to act the revenge of Monteperty? Why do you molest me? And I, my master now wait here for me that I may clear up just one doubt about him, then you can make me hurry as you will. My guide stood fast, and I went on to ask of him who still,

was cursing bitterly. Who are you that rebukes another so? And who are you who go through and to Nora striking the cheeks of others? He replied to roughly, even if you were alive. I am alive and can be precious to you if you want fame, was my reply, for I can set your name among my other notes.

And he to me, I want the contrary. So go away and do not harass me. Your flattery is. useless in this valley. At that I grabbed him by the scruff and said, You'll have to name yourself to me or else he won't have even one hair left up here. And he to me, though you should strip me bald, I shall not tell you who I am or show it, not if you pound my head a thousand times. His hairs were wound around my hand already and I had plucked from him more than one tuft while he was barking and his eyes stared down

when someone else cried out, What is it, Baca? Isn't the music of your jaws enough for you without your bark? What devil's at you? And now I said, You traitor bent on evil, I do not need your talk, for I shall carry true news of you,

and that will bring you shame. Be off, he answered. Tell them who you like, but don't be silent if you make it back about the one whose tongue was now so quick. Here he laments the silver of the Frenchman. i saw you then can say him of duera down there where all the sinners are kept cool and if you asked who else was there in ice one of the baccaria in beside you he had his skullets sliced right through by florence johnny del ss de sultaneri i believe lies there with gannelon and tabaldello he who unlocked fanza while it slept

we had already taken leave of him when i saw two shades frozen in one hole so that one once had served as the other's cap and just as he whose hungry chews his bread one sinner dug his teeth into the other right at the place where brain is joined to no differently had tidiest nod the temples of nalipus out of indignation than this one chewed the skull and other parts o you who show with such beastile sign your hatred for the one on whom you feed, tell me the cause, I said. We can agree that if you quarrel with him is justified, then knowing who you are and what's his sin, I shall repay you yet on earth above, if that with which I speak does not dry up. Okay, all right. So we are in the final circle of hell, and it's a completely frozen lake, where everyone is submerged in the lake and just freezing.

They can't move. They can only feel pain. And there are also divisions within this lake. And they're given different names, and they are ranked according to what they betrayed, okay? So at the outer layer, there's the betrayal of family. So basically two brothers who killed each other, okay, betrayal of family. Okay? Then as you go further down, there is the betrayal.

trail of country. Okay? So the example is Baca. And who is Baca? Baca is someone who fought for the Florentines with Dante, but he was not loyal to the Florentines. And at a battle, a crucial battle between the Guelves and the Gilebeans,

he betrayed the Guelves by cutting off the hand of the standard bearer. Okay? The standard bearer, if you know your, medieval battles. The Senate Barrier is essentially like Captain of the Flag or the King in the game of chess, right? The Senate Barrier is what gives direction, hope, and focus to the army. So this caused the Guelves to lose a major battle. Okay. And that's why Baca is being punished. And Donnie recognizes him and demands that he speak up. And Bacca's like, no, I'd rather be forgotten, okay? So lower down is the picture of country. Then you have the betrayal of friends.

And then you have the betrayal of guests. Okay? So again, the feeling of divine comedy is it's full of paradoxes. And if you actually look at this, you would think that it would be the opposite, right? Like, betrayal of guests would be the least punished, and the most punished would be betrayal of family. because family is tied together by blood. So what's going on here? Why would Donnie construct his knife circle of treachery in such a manner?

What's the criteria that he's using to judge the sin? Yes? I think it's about how it reflects to the universe. So if you betray a family, it only concerns yours, whereas a guest can really concern anyone on earth. So it disrupts trust. Yes, thank you. Yes. I think in the Middle East as well, like in Iran or like in Israel, I guess, to treat a guess, you have to put up the best hospitality.

It's because it's stranger. I think it's underlying the same principle. Kong? Well, I think you have a great idea, but I'm not sure if it was, if that was the case. I feel like friends would be a smaller circle than country. And so those two circles would be the opposite. And so maybe we could work that into the new theory. you will right you choose

because you don't choose your family you might not even choose the country you're born on but you choose your friends and you invite your guests exactly yes I think I like the reflection idea and it's about what is contrary to the nature of the universe and as humans with bodies we are

guests so he's asking what would God really never do of course he would never betray these other groups but they are all subsumed within the group of guests under God so it's really the major violence against God is against guests. Okay, great.

Okay, yeah. So I think everyone's right, okay? So to summarize, it's the idea that we have responsibility to protect love and the imagination in the universe, okay? Well, love, there can be no imagination. Love is based on trust. So the more trust you create in the universe, the greater capacity for love in the universe,

therefore the greater capacity for imagination. Again, the idea of free will where we all have a choice whether or not to enter in a contract, right? The idea of a social contract. We choose to enter a social contract. And what's really important is to honor those social contract. The thing about family is you don't choose to enter in a social contract. You're just stuck with a family, okay? You don't choose your country.

You're stuck with your country. But you do choose your friends and you do choose. who do invite into your household. Okay? And also, what's really important is the idea of guests. Like, the iron law of most society is to treat guests with hospitality. This is true for most of human history. Not just the Middle East, okay?

Anyone in the world. You don't really appreciate this, but at this time, if a stranger comes from far away, you have an urge of responsibility to treat him with the most utmost respect. Okay? Nowadays, you're like, well, immigrants. kill immigrants. No, no, no. Immigration of most of your ministry was really rare. And what's much common was just the traveler, right? And so if you saw a traveler, you had to treat that

person with utmost respect and hospitality. And the reason why is, well, if you kill that person, then no one could ever travel, right? No one could ever explore. And in the Greek mythology, in the Greek society, what they believe that every guest could potentially be a god in the skies. So to kill a guess would be to upset the gods themselves. Okay? And so, sorry, did you have a question or comment? Yeah. So what's then even worse probably is that if you're a guest, you disrespect the host,

because that's what Paris, for example, did when he was a guest in Greece and then he stole Helen. or when the Greece basically gets in Troy and then they destroy Troy. Yes, exactly. Yes. That's a really special case. This is something I never really thought about where the gas purposefully

betrays the holes. But that's a great question for us to think about. And this is something that if Dante knew about, he would definitely put Paris in here as well. Yeah, that's a really great comment. Um, but does this make sense to you guys? Okay? Unless you have trust, society cannot function at all, right? I mean, think about how, um, you like, like, for example, the most basic thing is, you often self disputes, right? If there's a war going on, you invite the opposing general for a dinner, right? And like, if you just kill the general, like, there could be no reconciliation. There can be no mediation, right? So this idea of like honoring gas, it's an iron law throughout all human society.

Okay, it's true in China. It's true everywhere. All right. And the reason why is that if you didn't have this law, society just could not function. Okay. There could be no basis for any contract. Okay. All right.

So that's what's going on here. All right. Let's keep on going. Conto 33. That sinner raised his mouth from his fierce meal. then used the head that he had ripped apart in back, he wiped his lips upon its hair. Then he began, You want me to renew despairing pain that presses at my heart, even as I think back before I speak. But if my words are seed from which the fruit is infamy for this betrayer whom I gnaw,

you'll see me speak and weep at once. I don't know who you are or in what may you've come down here, and yet you surely seem for what I hear to be Florentine. You're to know I was Count Ugolino and this one here, Archbishop Rubieri. And now I'll tell you why I'm his neighbor. There's no need to tell you that because of his malicious tricks I first was taken, then was killed since I had trusted him. However, that which you cannot have heard, that is the cruel death devised for me. You now shall hear and know if he has wronged me. A narrow window in the Eagle's Tower, which now threw me is called the Hunger Tower,

the cage in which still others will be locked, had through its opening already showed me several moons, when I dreamed that bad dream which rent the curtain of the future for me. This man appeared to me as Lord and Master, he hunted down the wolf and its young whelps upon the mountain that prevents the peasants from seeing Luca, and with lean and keen and practiced towns, he sent up front before him, Wallande and Sismondi and Lafranchi. But after a brief course, it seemed to me that both the father, and the sons were weary. I seemed to see their flanks torn by sharp fang. When I woke at daybreak, I could hear my sons who were together with me there weeping within their sleep, asking for

bread. You would be cruel indeed if thinking what my heart foresaw, you don't already grieve. And if you don't weep now, when would you weep? They were awake by now, the hour drew near at which our food was usually brought. And each because of what he dreamed was anxious. Below, I heard them nailing up the door of that appalling tower without a word, I looked into the faces of my son. I did not weep with, and I turned to stone. They wept, and my poor little Ansel said, Father, you look so, what is wrong with you?

At that I shed no tears, and all day long and through the night that followed, did not answer until another son had touched the world. As soon as a thin ray had made its way into that sorry prison, and I saw reflected in four faces, my own gave out of my grief i bid at both my hands and they who thought i'd done that out of hunger immediately rose and told me father it would be far less painful for us if you ate of us for you clothed us in this sad flesh it is for you to strip it off then i grew calm to keep them from more sadness through that day and the next we all were silent o hard earth why did you not open up but after we had we had we had to keep them from more sadness through that day and the next we all were silent o heart earth why did you not open up but after we reached the fourth day Gatto throwing himself outstretched down at my feet implored me Father why do you not help me and there he died and just as you see me I saw the other three

fall one by one between the fifth and the sixth at which now blind now blind I started groping over each and after they were dead I called them for two days then fasting had more force than grief Okay. All right. So the story is, at this time in history, Caliololino is one of the most famous Italians. He is a great military strategist of Pisa. And eventually, because he is so ambitious, he's a very Machiavian figure, he will change alliances always. And then he falls in the lines of the archbishop, who then betrays him in order to obtain more power for himself. the archbishop does is that he locks him and his children, his sons, into a cell and force away the key. They don't know this, but no one's coming to them and giving them food, so they're just starving to death. And the urban legend is that you can't oblige his children in order to keep himself alive. First of all, we discussed the idea of symmetry in the in the divine comedy, okay?

Do you guys know, and this is like the second last canto, the penultimate conto, right? What is a penulte in paradise that mirrors this? Do you guys remember? And that's what's brilliant about Dante. He's always doing symmetry

in order to excite your imagination. So here, this is a father canonizing his children. You guys remember in the Panama Cantor of Paradise, what the issue was there, what they were talking about in the pandemic, kind of all paradise, basically paradise 32. What do we spend a lot of time discussing? Like the babies in heaven. Yes. Do you see the symmetry here, right?

And we, we, back then Bernard was telling Dante, why is it that in the seat of, in the, in the red rose, right beside God, you have the greatest, matriarchs in history Eve, Mary, and Rachel and Roof, but you also had babies. And Donnie's like, wait a minute. I thought Virgil told me babies were all in limbo.

But you had these babies and we decided that it was because of the unconditional love of parents, right? If a baby died, if a parent committed himself to unconditional love, praying to God, committed to good works, that effort

would allow the child to ascend to the Imperium. And here we have the complete opposite, right? It's an opposite. It's an inverse where the father is cannibalizing his sons in order to survive. Okay. Okay. So that's the beauty of the divine comedy. You will find the symmetry everywhere.

Okay? All right. So what is going to be? on here? Why is Count Uglanos fighting on the Archbishop and why they're frozen in place? And why is this happening for all of eternity?

Yes? I guess in the simple sense he's just trying to exact an appropriate revenge and that this desire which is still present in hell will just continue forever. Why are they in a frozen lake?

Because they have no imagination to move them towards anything other than what they desire. Uh, yes. Could it be that they've thrown away their free will? Because there's, I don't find the line. But he's basically asking, you know, father, why don't you help me? Implying that he's looking for that external help rather than earlier on we spoke about how you can, through your own free will, help yourself. Yes. Any other comments or thoughts? Yes. And also, like, betrayal kind of freezes your relationship with the others. And then, like, the,

others who also like no longer trust anyone because of these sorts of like betrayal so like you are also freeze in the lake yourself after you betray the others yes exactly any anymore okay yeah exactly right they're in a frozen lake these are frozen literally in time right all remember is the betrayal and they're first for revenge the hatred okay and the punishment is apt because just as the archbishop shall force the count to betray his sons and cannibalize his sons, now the count is cannibalizing the archbishop. But it's all futile because they're all in hell. But he doesn't care because he's stuck in that moment, okay?

He's not actually considering the absurdity of the situation. He's just stuck in that moment. And that's the idea of frozen lake, okay? That's why hell at the very bottom, everyone is a frozen lake, because the treachery has frozen them in that moment of treachery, and they can never escape out of it. And they lack the capacity to have free will, to have the loved imagination,

to think beyond this moment of betrayal. All they focus on is how to get back at this person for the betrayal. And that's why betrayal is the worst punishment, because the universe moves and betrayal, treachery, freezes the universe in place. It reduces the capacity for imagination. Does it make sense? Great.

All right. Let's keep on going. This is the very last... Oh, yeah, sorry. Keep on going. We're not finished yet. Line 76. When he had spoken this with eyes of rye,

again he gripped the sad skull in his teeth, which like dogs were strong down to the bone. Ah, Pisa, you, the scandal of the people, of that fair land where sea is heard because your neighbors are so slow to punish you. May then Caprar and Gorgona move and build a hedge across the Arnold's mouth so that you may drown every soul in you. For if Count Ugolino was reputed to have betrayed your fortresses, there was no need to have his sons endure such torment. Oh, thieves renewed, their years were innocent and young, Brigata, Ugochoni, and the other two my song has named above.

we passed beyond where frozen water wraps a rugged covering still other sinners who were not bent but flat upon their bags So Dante is moved by the story And he's upset about what What about the story really upsets him And Makes him very confused, yes?

That Count Eulina was forced to sit And why Well Why would someone be punished exactly the same way if they didn't instigate the betrayal. Okay, so he thinks that Count Eulano got what he deserved because he did betray Pisa, and the people, the peasants were angry at this, okay? But there's a problem here, yes?

I think maybe the problem is that Count Ugolino's sons were actually tortured in the same way. Yeah, why are the sons in prison? The sons did nothing wrong. first of all, why are the sons in prison? I believe it's to torture Count Ugolino, but I don't understand why they were subject to the same torture as Ugolino did. But this is just a historical question, right?

Why are children being punished, along with the fathers? Yes? Presumably, they would grow up and try an exact vengeance in the room. Exactly, right? This is true for most cultures at this time. If you kill the father, you have to kill the sons as well, because now the sons are morally obligated to avenge the father.

Okay. And so Donnan is like saying this is unjust. Okay. And what he's saying is like we have to remember we have to have faith that there are higher laws of justice that govern us. And to punish the sons with a father. Yes, I understand the logic. I understand that it's necessary because you want to avoid wars, right? Because at this time in history, family feuds are a real thing.

Okay, but he says, I understand all this, but it's still unjust. Okay. And again, at this time in history, it's pretty revolutionary. You guys know a story of Romeo and Juliet, right? Well, it's this time, okay? The Montague and the Capulites, it is this time, these Italians city-states in Verona, right? These feuds, these family feuds that go on for generations. Okay, it is this time in history.

Okay, let's keep on going. line ninety four they're very weeping there won't let them weep and grief that finds a berry in their eyes turns inward to increase their agony because their first tears freeze into a cluster and like a crystal visor fill up all the hull that is underneath the eyebrow and though because of cold my every sense had left its dwelling in my face just as a callus has no feeling none the less i seem to feel some wind now and i said my master who has set this gust in motion for is every vapor quenched down here? And heed to me, you soon shall be where your own eye will answer that when you shall see the reason why this wind blasts from above. And one of those sad sinners in the cold crust cried to us.

O souls who are so cruel that this last place has been assigned to you, take off the hard veils from my face so that I can release the suffering that fills my heart before lament, preises again. To which I answered, if you'd have me help you, then tell me who you are. If I don't free you, may I go to the bottom of the ice? He answered then, I'm Fra Elberigo, the one who tended fruits in a bad garden,

and here my figs have been repaid with dates. But then I said, are you already dead? And he to me, I have no knowledge of my body's fate within the world above, for Potolomia has this privilege. Quite frequently, the soul falls here before it has been thrust away by a tropos, and that you may, with much more willingness, scrape these glazed tears from off my face know this. As soon as any soul becomes a traitor as why I was,

then a demon takes its body away and keeps that body in its power until its ears have run their course completely. The soul falls headlong down into the cistern, and up above perhaps there still appears the body of the shade that winter is here behind me. You must know him. if you've just come down he is sar broncadoria for many years he has been thus pent up i said to him i think that you deceive me for broncadoria is not yet dead he eats and drinks and sleeps and puts on clothes

there in the malibranca's ditch above where sticky pitch boils up mcalli zonke had not had still not come he said to me when this one together with a kinsman who had done the treachery together with him left a devil in his stead instead his body. But now reach out your hand. Open my eyes, and yet I did not open them for him, and it was courtesy to show him rudeness. Ah, Genoese, a people strange to every constraint of custom, full of all corruption. Why have you not been driven from the world?

For with the foulest spirit of Romania, I found one of you such that for his acts in soul, he bathes already in Coshitas, and up above appears alive. and body. Okay, so we have met the worst offenders, okay? These are people who betrayed their guests. They invite their guests to dinner, and now they're protected by the loss of hospitality, right? But they don't care, they betray their guests. And the moment they do that, what happens is their sin is so bad. They are automatically, their souls are taken down to the ninth circle.

they are trapped in the forcing leg and the demon takes possession of their body okay and the example here is Branca Doria and Donnie actually knows this person and Donny knows this person is alive and he's saying that now a demon

took over his body okay so here's a question for you do you think demonic possession or energetic possession is it real Any thoughts? Any comments? Again, there are no right answers, but I'm curious as to what you think.

Yes. Well, if you grow up in Southeast Asia, in Malaysia or Singapore, there's voodoo magic, as we all know. So then, oh, in Africa. Like, if you grow up in these regions of the world, it's impossible for you to conceive that a ghost or demon cannot take possession of a human being

because you see it all the time. Wow. Not all the time, like, about like, but you can you like elaborate on this? because why is it that like in these societies you see ghosts and demons but we don't uh okay i recently moved back but okay so um because i think it's because of the religion of the local people this kind of magical practices is a lot especially in malays right like there's a thing like if you dig out a dead man's body and you take some liquid from his jar and it

can make it into love potion. The most common one, everybody knows in Malaysia, it's a thing, okay? Like, yeah. And so like, yeah. So then you can make the men fall in love for you or women, and that's common practice. And you can do a lot of these.

How does the domestic possession work? So in Udu, it's like you do this spell, and you have this door, and you step in, right? And then like in Malaysia, or it's, you know, there are a lot, like you ask this guy, to come to your house you pay him and then to curse that guy and the neck yeah so what you're saying is do you know about this i don't know about this but but go ahead from kithu world view yeah there is lydia in the bible or whoever i forgot the lady's name but

like there are people who are possessed by demons and jesus have to cast it down but i go to the pigs and the pigs drawn themselves so in bible is very common in malays is very common in Africa. Actually, speaking of, my husband and I have recently watched a Tucker Carlson podcast with a priest who is an exorcist. Right. And actually, you know, it's an, you know, in many cultures,

it's actually an ongoing thing. And even in China, I've heard that, for example, In the Northeast, there are animal spirits. And also growing up in Hong Kong, under certain bridges, there are people doing voodoo stuff. You can pay someone to, let's say, stab a pin into a doll or hit someone, hit someone's effigy. Okay.

So voodoo is across cultures, basically. Yeah, if you look at University of Hong Kong, there's a huge tomb, okay? huge tomb, okay, in the library. Have you, have you been to University of Hong Kong? I have. I don't know, I don't know about this. Yeah, like, if you think out of all, like Hong Kong is such an epitome, you know, of all these practices, feng shui and all that. But if you go to university at Hong Kong, there's a Li Jacheng built for his wife,

and the library look like a tomb, literally, to calm her spirit. So there's a lot of this kind of practices where people believe that. So you guys believe in this stuff. I'm saying, like, if you don't believe in this stuff, what are your objections to it? Who is like this can't possibly exist? Yes? I think that when someone commits a sin that seems to have a character that is beyond their normal character that there's a life force inside of the sin It's easy and tempting to assume that there is a Foretax of energy that creates consciousness that is separate from their own that has come into them

But it just strikes me that this is cope. This is people who really don't want to Accept that maybe someone they know their friend or their friend family could do a sin that was so out of character. Okay. All right. That's very interesting. Okay. Let me ask you this question, okay?

Did we have a... Let me ask you this question. Does anyone want to comment on how he or she has changed after reading the Vine Comedy? Like, we've spent the past week reading the Vine Comedy. We still have a few more days left. But does anyone want to reflect on how he or she? has changed after encounter divine comedy for the first time

after reading it, after thinking about it. Do you think you've changed as a person? Do you think yes? I do believe that it can change people because before that maybe people thought oh, I just cheat, I do whatever I can nobody will

get to know more about me and I just hide myself. But after another divine comedy maybe some people are saying can have confessions maybe some people think they're guilty right because okay yeah i'm not asking this as an thought experiment i'm just asking like have you personally felt different after we in the vine comedy yes yes yes can you explain this it's hard to put it to words but um for me um especially after paradisio uh as well as in how as we go through line by line

the divine comedy um you you you can't it's for me i feel like it's alluding to a larger truth and it's it's making me more open to the fact that there are things beyond this universe that i don't really understand because i'm an scientist engineer by training i and then later on went into business right so i i um it's it's it's quite you know framework changing for me i don't know how to have you um found any physical changes to your body like the first night kind of like the first night i think i i mentioned this to some of our classmates like um um i find i found it hard to sleep actually the first few nights um even paradisio right um supposedly this good thing but i i found it hard to rest uh as per my usual routine um

mainly because i find all these imageries and all these things kind of kicking off thoughts in myself wondering about the nature of good and you know so so these visions were appearing before you and you're trying to wrestle with these visions okay that's similar to in hell right like like like just just you know um you mentioned something about trying to square a circle right like the fact that there is mohamma in there and there is um um uh things about sodomy and homosexuality and like i find myself trying to answer questions that weren't there before. And like coming up with, oh, should I go talk to different people I know? And so I don't know.

I do think there is. I just don't know how to, you know. Okay. Yes. I feel like there's way more awareness and consciousness about the people we meet, the people we love, and the people who loved us. And I feel like, first of all, it's very tiring. So every time, like, even though we have four hours of class, I feel like super tired at the end, often take a nap.

And also I felt in dreams, I thought of people that I forgot. And so you rethink about certain moments of your life and how it's linked to love especially. Well, that's beautiful. Thank you so much. So you're expanding your consciousness, your connection to the cosmos. Right. Okay. Anyone else have... This will sound extremely strange, but a lot of my lymph node started draining when I really studied the divine comedy. I think because my nervous system was really relaxing.

And genuinely, a lot of like waste product from my body was being expelled. Wow. Okay, so you felt some physical changes. Okay. Anyone else? Yes? Yeah, kind of, I kind of felt the same because I dream like a lot more frequently. for these few days and also like I kind of agree with what both of them said I feel like I kind of re-examine my connection and relationship with the others and then I kind of see like how it is so important to me that I have to cherish them and also like at the same time I was kind of like

an atheist before reading the divine comedy now I cannot say that I entirely believe that God exists but I feel like I'm kind of like re-examining what I used to believe. Okay, great. Thank you so much. Any other? Yes? Similar to the classmates. I think dreams have been a bit different in the last few weeks. Like I remember on the first day we read The Divine Comedy, I had quite a vivid nightmare. And I don't really have nightmares very often. The only way I can try and understand it, I think, is usually in day-to-day life, we don't really think about morality very much and

its effect on us or others so we kind of numbed but obviously in the last week or so yeah it's everyday thinking about things we don't usually think about and maybe

raising the consciousness okay let me ask you this has anyone tried psychedelics in this class yes can you talk about your psychedelic experience well first of all what did you try

psychedelic mushrooms Okay, so... A couple of times last year. So it wasn't like extreme, but still like enough to feel like some extra forces. So it's really about, same thing, like social awareness. So you feel like positive and negative energy when you like you feel happy and loved close to your friends. And you feel really insecure in some environment that's like negative. So, so, so, so I want to confirm this, okay?

Your second like experience is very similar to you. We in the Vinevine Comedy. It could be, but, like, it's really hard to compare, and I think, like, you can't reach this level of awareness just by reading or meditation. Like, it's really, like, physical, visual, and about love, like, it's really strong, and you can't, like, there's a hundred percent chance

you feel something with this experience, whereas by reading it's maybe, like, a couple percent, but a bit, a bit, but it's hard to compare it. I actually would differ on that. because I've also done transcendental meditation when I was a child and I had a similar experience with Jay, which is one night. I had a vision. I haven't had a vision for a long time since I was younger. So and I've done other mind-opening things. So I would say they're different in every way. It's just that there's some something precious or different about the reading and going through this journey. Yeah. So my argument would be, well, that's because you have not fully read The Divine Comedy, right?

We're just stretching the surface. If you really commit to it, maybe it be similar. But did you want to share your experience? Yeah, I have to agree with, against you. The endpoint of a lot of, like, mushroom trips, maybe less for LSD, is basically, basically the message of this. Yes. Where like, imagine if this is crystal clear,

your own revelations at the end of a trip are like slight flaws in a crystal. So it's your personality, rewriting the truth that is contained here. And so it's very strange that when you really try to unlock your brain, this is the kind of message that you end up. Yeah, this is like really strange. Yeah.

Let me ask you guys, let me ask you another question. Has anyone had an intense religious experience? Okay. Yes. Can you explain to us your, intense religious experience. This is your life. Like you've got to charge.

Yeah, yeah. There was definitely one. That's what made me actually converted to Christianity. So I always, so after I went to Malaysia when I was 12, I lived in a pastor's family. And just like two years after that, I wasn't convinced about Christianity. I was, oh, it's cool.

Bible stories are awesome. And then there was one month where I had nightmares every night where I had this, um, visits from hell, basically. And I'm afraid to go to. bed every night because I know what's waiting for me in my dreams and I there was nothing traumatic happening in my life there was no exam stress there was no you know and then I was just terrified and then

my pastor uh dad and mom were like well read the Bible verse out loud in your room and recite it and that was the only night I didn't have nightmare and the girl next to me poor thing she had the nightmare and that was really gruesome she said didn't left your room and come to my room now I'm so sorry maybe I shouldn't have read the Bible out my bad. And then so that kind of really convinced me of like hell existed. And so I have to scream the name of Jesus to get out of that nightmare. And then from that whole month of torture is over. Like if anybody swear to me, oh, there's no God in the room. Like fuck you. Like come to my life. Be in that month. And then like explain to me why is there all these crazy things that just make me, yeah, not being able to not believe there's no

spiritual world. So let me confirm what you're saying. You're in Malaysia and there's a lot of voodoo magic in Malaysia. So it's possible there are lots of these spirits roaming around. Yeah. Yeah. And these spirits were literally like knocking your door. But once you found some incantinations, like, you know, some Bible verses,

it changed your energy field as so to create a force field around you. Of protection. Yeah. Yeah. And I went to the next girl's room and she was at Anna. I never had a night. I made everyone in my life. And last night you didn't have the nightmare I do now.

I'm so sorry, maybe, you know, that ghost left me and went to your room. Sorry. Okay. So then the question is, why does this happen? Why is it like when you read to the line comedy, you have these dreams? And why is it like even your body physically changes? Why? Yes?

I could see this as a priming. So in psychology, there's something called priming where you put something into your mind. And so to have these words by reading about love, will, and hope, it, like, just, so you have these words. And so in every interaction you have, you think of this. And so it really changed what you're talking. Because, like, if you just read about love and then you're talking to your mother, then obviously you're going to think about this. And so this is how it changes, like, the aspect about priming, putting words into your head and then always

associating with this. Yeah, absolutely, okay? This is what a psychologist would tell you. It's all priming, right? Because they've done experience where, if you, in the morning, what you do is you get some sunlight and you put on some really nice music, you'll feel better about yourself and you have a nicer day.

Whereas if you don't go outside and you put on some really sad music, you're going to have a really bad day. Okay, so a lot of it is priming, a lot of its self-perception, okay? Yes. I loved having that conversation with her. We actually had a previous conversation in the elevator,

which probably primed our later comment about music. But actually, when I had the recent vision, it reminded me of previous visions where it felt like a resonance with the universe, where I could see things in just a different dimension. and different colors. And it's the resonance with the rest of the universe that doesn't happen all the time for a lot of reasons. But it's resonance, harmony, that concordance,

that kind of comes when there's a really powerful work of art or mind opening that's happening. Okay, yes, okay, I understand that. But I'm trying to figure out the psychedelic experience, explain to me how psychedelics work then. You've explained how divine comedy works. is priming, yes, but psychedelics. So, first of all, like, psychedelics, what's different is that there's, like, a hundred percent

chance that it will change you, like, you will feel different. So it's often seen as a trip where, like, you basically lose your consciousness and everything you know or new, and it basically makes you wear more close to nature, where you forget the conception of like technology money uh possession and so during a couple of hours between like four to eight hours you just feel basically like an animal where you rethink everything you you basically like also you can't use your phone right because like it's so not human that it changes you but no i'm trying to figure out the neurological mechanism that allows for yeah yeah yeah yeah but just just just just one last question okay what's a what's a

neurological mechanism. You've explained priming. How do you explain psychedelics? I think it's like some molecule like psychocybin or like something. Okay. Yes? I think you're referring to psilocin, which is the thing that breaks down from the mushrooms. But I think it all comes down to a molecule, I think, called tryptamine, which, so basically in your brain there's a molecule that constrains your perception. So imagine your eyes are seeing fractals all the time and that your brain is basically organ. organizing the sense data from those fractals into reality. And then if you boost a certain chemical a lot,

you start to see the fractals that your brain is using to perceive reality. And this happens internally as well for your mind and being. So if I extrapolate on what you're saying, you're saying that reality itself, it's much more complex, much more vibrant, much more colorful than we could ever imagine. Way, way more. But and then these, what these like elects do is they basically cancel out your filters. So you see more of reality.

Right? But, but that's all that's saying is like, maybe demons and angels actually do exist. Right? Is that, is, I mean,

is that the possibility? I don't want to say 100%, but you get that sense. And so possession is also possible, right? Because what's, because the idea is they exist. They're floating around us.

And they, depending on your mood, depending on your, state of mind, they can come into you, they can leave you, right? Is that a possibility? Okay, so let me ask you this really weird question. Do any of you, while we're in the divine comedy, do you feel intuitively as though Dante has entered you? Do you think at some level Dante has taken possession of you? Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, you first and then? Yeah, yeah, definitely because I think I don't know why you come here to this classroom,

but I do because I think I just mean Excel, you know, I just, you know, I don't know, just I think I'm out of the social system right now just because maybe I do my part-time job and I don't just always like other people to go to work all the day long. So maybe that makes me feel like Dante, you know, I just being driven away. I'm thinking, basically, Donning has to you thinking, yes? I think so, but I'm lucky because I studied the Aeneid when I was 18 in Latin, just luckily. Yes. And I, for some reason, have my own Beatrice in my real life.

Like a girl I'm super in love with who is now dating somebody who knows lots about wine. Yes. So in a strange sense, this is, I do feel him inside me in that sense. Okay. And how do you feel it? How do you know he's inside you? Because there seems to be an energy directing me to be kinder to strangers and to spread more love that feels very physical because of how much power and energy it has, but that I've never been able to conjuring myself just from a desire to be good. But how do you know it's stunted, not an angel or another spiritual being?

Like what differentiates this from? Well, I don't want to presume. I think it's dangerous to think that an angel can come into you. But you're presuming Dante, who's dead, can come into you, right? Well, through his work. Yes. I just don't want to think that an angel has come into me because it's a very slippery slope about what you might do then.

Okay, yeah. So that's what great art is. Great art becomes part of the universal consciousness. And by reading it, if you read it well, I'm not saying if you read it like, you know, the way we're reading, but I'm saying like, if you read it over years and years and you continue to have these visions,

and you continue have these spiritual experiences, and you continue to practice divine comedy in your life, then eventually Donnie is going to take possession of you, and he's going to reveal things to you that were once unimaginable to you before. And it's very similar to a religious experience. It's a very similar to a psychedelic experience, yes? Actually, Professor, I would really appreciate it

if you could share the changes that you experienced ourselves as well. Because if we went through like the divine comedy within the week and we all experienced some changes to a certain extent. And then you spend four years on it. I think you definitely experienced a lot more than we did. Okay. So I'll tell you some of my changes, okay? First of all, what's really obvious to me is I feel a lot lighter, like physically a lot lighter, as though I am almost like floating in the air, okay?

Because, you know, when you're in China, like every day it's a pain in the ass, right? Because, you know, like when you're walking the streets, there are scooters flying around, okay? When you go to the restaurant, often the food is going to be, you know, it's going to give you food poisoning, okay? And then you might get an argument with someone on, you know, it's a very common thing in China. So it's, and like when that happens, what I feel is really heavy, you know, like just my blood boiling and just like, you know, like pure hatred and just pure anger, right? Just like, just really, I'm just really annoyed, okay? Because I love walking, and Beijing is a non-walking city, and it annoys me. I feel trapped.

I feel like I can't go outside because if I go outside, a scooter might bump into me, and I'll get angry and all that, okay? So, but when I read the Divine Comedy, all that dissipates, right? And that anger, those memories, for the reason, they just float away. And then I feel I floating upwards, okay? That's one really obvious thing. notice. But again, it's something that I think it's because I've been doing divine comedy for a long time and I understand it pretty well. So I'm saying like if you do

read the divine comedy over time, I'm pretty sure you'll feel the same thing where you feel yourself lighter. It's almost like you're lifting yourself up to the heavens. It's almost like you can actually access the heavens yourself, okay? That's one. Second thing is that I feel much more creative. I feel much more imagine. So when you, in this class, when I teach, you can see I teach with imagination. I'm going to propose ideas to you. I'm going to propose situations to you that are really imaginative. And I think it's because as I am teaching, as I'm reading the mind calmly, I have a cosmic connection with Dante.

And Dante in the universe, it's fitting me visions, it's fitting me ideas. The difference between you guys and me is you've just started. So these visions are involuntary, meaning like these come to you and you don't actually know what to make of them. But if you practice this for a long time like I have, you're able to control these visions. You basically say, I need this vision in order to teach this cantile well, and the vision comes to you automatically. Okay? I know it sounds weird, but I have no idea. what I'm teaching, what I will teach, okay? And then on the cab right here, I know, okay? I know

what I want to focus on. I know what I want to teach. It's all, it's all very inspirational, okay? That's second thing. The third thing is that when you actually read Dante a lot, you feel a profound sense of purpose and mission, which is like my responsibility is to share Dante with the world to change the world for the better. You feel as though if I really, I have a special gift for understanding Dante, and I have a mission to spread this. And how do I know? Because I think Dante is smiling at me from the heavens. He's smiling at me and he's like, you're spreading my message of love and thank you so much. So you feel a deep sense of mission, but you also feel deep sense of gratitude, purpose, responsibility.

And again, but like the ultimate sensation, and I'm not sure if you guys ever had this, is you feel really light. You feel as though you're flying, you know, and you feel as though you're ascending upwards. It's almost like transcendence, okay? Transcendent. You're being transcendent when you read Divine Comedy. Yes? Like psychedelics, I totally agree with the first two.

but I think it still has a lack of will and purpose at the end. So you do feel like elevated. You care less about small things about, oh, I'm late or oh, I don't have enough money or something. Like, it really doesn't matter at all. You're connected to a way higher purpose. Yes. So you do feel lighter and creative. And you can direct your creativeness into, for example, me as a student learning.

So you find you aware of learning and way more efficiently. but we do like the actually motion to actually do things and yeah it's really comparable yeah that's really interesting thank you for that any more questions before we continue okay all right let's okay so we are going now to the

ultimate canto of infernal like the last canto okay but before we do that I want us to use our imagination Okay, so imagine we're in Hollywood and writing this movie. And we have the script already, and now we just have to figure out the ending, right? And the ending, of course, is we meet Lucifer. We meet Satan. This is the ending of infernal.

Okay? So I want to use our imagination and ask ourselves, if we are writing this movie, okay? Okay. First of all, how would we describe Lucifer? What is Lucifer? And like, how would we set the scene for the ending? Okay. And again, this is the ending. Right? So, any suggestions? Come on. Let's be creative. Let's channel Dante. Yes? Well, look. I know we've read the ending. I'm just saying, like, you know, let's use our imagination. We have not, okay? Yes. Where our initial big question is, is he tempting still or is he pitiful? Exactly. Okay. So the big question is temptation.

Because that is what Satan does, right? He is going to meet Dante and say to Dante, I know you're going to meet, you want to meet Beatrice, but let me tempt you with other things, right? Let me give you beautiful woman. Let me give you riches. Let me give you a world of kingdom, right? That's the most obvious thing you can do, right? temptation. Just as Satan tempted Jesus in the

desert, Satan will now tempt Dante in hell. So that's obvious. What was some other things? Yes? Maybe try to sign a contract because the devil and the demon, they always want to sign a contract with you. Exactly. It makes you.

A contract, right? Right, for your soul. Right? And this is the plot, of course, for false. And this is a very common thing. Yes? Well, we have to show him tethered in some way, where he is selling a path upwards to all the people he's giving deals to. But we know God cast him out of heaven forever.

So his desire is to get back there. He's caused mischief on earth. So we need to show him if it was a Hollywood movie, in some way tied to where he is, in a way that he can never escape. Can you describe his appearance, for us. In the poem or in general?

No, no, no. We know the poem, okay? But I'm saying like, if this is a Hollywood, right, what, how would he look like? Who would you cast to play Satan in this movie? An AI character. Most handsome person possible as decreed by AI. I think handsome, right?

Like, like, I think, like, really good looking, okay? Like, maybe Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise at their prime, like, really hot, really good looking. Because that's part of the temptation, right? So beautiful. And, you know, in the Bible, not in the Bible, like Christianity believes that Lucifer was a beautiful angel, right? The most beautiful of all the angels.

So he has to be beautiful, right? And he has to be like really handsome and almost like a prince, right? Any other ideas for how this will play out? Yes. Like to what extent we can relate with him? like can we understand how he got himself there or do we just see him very this is really good yes sympathy right so lucifer is going to tell us a story of how he was betrayed by god right you think i'm the betrayer but god betrayed me and this becomes a

plotline for parents lost but but yeah no um we have to sympathize with uh satan because it's not just tempting don't he has to tempt us as well he has to seduce us with his story. Yes. Anything else? One. I would imagine him as a shape shifter. Because, well, and it's part of temptation because you kind of become whoever is the object of someone's desire. Yeah. Well, I would say he's a poet, right? Because that's what a poet is. A poet is a chameleon. A poet is always shifting words to please you, okay? Lyrical. So when he speaks, It is the most beautiful poetry in the vine comedy. It's lyrical.

It's poetry. And he's a chameleon. Yes. Thank you. Anyone else? Yes? Like very cunning or lying like a snake. So like how the temptation happens in the Garden of Eden?

The girl really say this? Or like actually word by word he didn't really say that? And then kind of debates with you. It makes you kind of believe him. He has to be like, he has to provide logical syllogisms, right? Yeah. He has to convince him. you yes okay long it will be very convincing right he'll use logic just as you know in paradise

laws where Satan convinced Eve right it was a very logical speech okay anyone else I'd read paradise loss before I read Inferno and so I was expecting it's like a paradigm shift or the Germans were called a good stult shift the Gestalt shift where like my entire world worldview changed because of how Satan had had expressed his point of view. And so it goes beyond sympathy to empathy for him. And I expect him to use that persuasively. So something beyond temptation would be persuasive and lawyerly.

Yes. So every argument that I would have, this is brothers cameras off, every argument that I would have would be steel manned by him and then broken down. Yes. That's right. So not only do we have to sympathize him, we have to feel that we are like him. Yes, exactly. Yes.

makes me think about c s louis's uh screw type letters i think it was basically written about an uncle demon who is trying to teach his young uh nephew demon to seduce people so it was all kinds of lectures from demons so these letters to teach him how to seduce men and be like so it's really fun so that whole book was written in a demon's perspective which is very fun but it's about yeah all of these mentioned above right deception where's virgil in this movie What happens to Virgil, right? Because they went on this long journey together. What happens of Virgil? What would you do with Virgil in this character? You know that Dante's being tempted, right? And Dante represents us. And we know what Satan's doing, but what's Virgil doing doing? I mean, I guess if it was a movie, he'd be transitioned to like a location where he would be watching over Dante but not involved in this scene.

Yeah, yeah. I think the first thing is that Virgil be trapped, right? or he would be frozen, right? He'd be frozen. And Satan would use Virgil as a bargaining ship and says, listen, your friend now is frozen. If you love him, let's make a deal, right? So you can almost see the scene where Virgil and Dante come in. And the first thing that happens is that Satan just snaps his finger and Virgil is frozen in place.

Can't move, cannot speak. And Dante is now terrified. right and now Satan will begin his temptation tell his story that's his sympathy then use his logic to convince us that no actually the way we understood the universe is wrong God is evil Satan is good that's why there's this rebellion this basically would be able to plot paradise loss okay but but yeah yes I think he'd also inspire fear Yes. Right.

He has to inspire fear and anxiety. Mm-hmm. Right? In the beginning, but then he wants you to love him. Does that make sense? Maybe in the beginning he wants fear and anxiety, but then, yes? He would also try to cause distrust between maybe him and Virgil. That's interesting, yes.

Okay. So because Virgil is his best friend up to this point, and if he caused distrust between it and it makes him... That is great, yeah. So maybe not freeze Virgil, but... change Virgil and show certain things, certain flashbacks between Virgil and Donna that show that Virgo is not a reliable character. And there's quite a few of these scenes, yes. It makes me think about Harry Potter, where it's like kind of make you lose all hope or despair or like kind of breaks down of your fundamental belief of the world.

And then where like Harry Potter has to say, expand no patroness to expel all these darkness and despair in your life. So it's kind of dissimilar. Yes, okay. Okay, so this is all great, okay? And like, this is what a Hollywood movie would look like. This is what most people would write, okay? And guess what? We are completely and utterly wrong, okay?

None of this happens. In fact, the complete opposite happens, okay? All right? This is what's shocking about the mind comedy. So we're going to read, we don't read the last canto. Again, this is what we should expect to happen. this is what most people would write. In fact, a lot people have written this in literature.

Gerta, Rufels, Milton in Paradise Laws. Yeah, Philip Pullman, who wrote his Dark Materials trilogy. But that's how it happens. Okay. Okay, so let's be count of 34. And we're trying to figure out why this does not happen. Okay. Conto 34.

Vexila regis pruddaunt inferny toward us and therefore keep your eyes ahead, my master said, to see if you can spy him. Okay, so they're now going to meet Satan or Lucifer, whatever name, the devil, okay? Just as when night falls on our hemisphere or when a heavy fog is blowing thick, a windmill seems to wheel when seen far off.

So then I seem to see it, that sort of structure. And next, because the wind was strong, I shrank behind my guide. There was no other shelter. And now with fear I set it down in meter. I was where all the shades were fully covered but visible as wisps of straw and glass. There some lie flat, another stand erect, one on his head and one upon his souls, and some bend face to feet just like a bow. But after we had made our way ahead, my master felt he now should have me see that creature who was once a handsome presence. He stepped aside and made me stop and said,

Look, here is this. This is just a name for Lusberg or Satan. And this is the place where you will have to arm yourself with fortitude. O reader, did not ask of me how I grew faint and frozen then. I cannot write it. All words would fall far short of what it was. I did not die, and I was not alive. Think for yourself.

if you have any wit, what I became, deprived of life and death. The emperor of the despondent kingdom so towered from the ice up from mid-chest that I matched better with a giant's breadth than giants match the measure of his arms. Now you can gauge the size of all of him if it is in proportion to such part. So basically this guy's a skyscraper, okay? He is huge. Keep on going? If he was once as handsome and he now is ugly and dispassion, that raised his brows against his maker. One can understand how every sorrow has its source in him.

I marveled when I saw that on his head he had three faces. One in front blood red. And then another two that just above the midpoint of each shoulder joined the first. And at the crown, all three were reattached. The right looked somewhat yellow, somewhat white. The left in its appearance was like those who come from more. those who come from where the Nile descending flows. Beneath each face of his two wings spread out, as broad as suited so immense a bird, I've never seen a ship with sail so wide. They had no feathers

but were fashioned like a bat's, and he was agitating them so that three winds made their way out of him, out from him. And all Cossitus froze before those winds. He wept out of six eyes and down three chins, tears gushed together with a bloody froth. Within each mouth, he used it like a grinder with gnashing teeth, he tore to bits a sinner so that he brought much pain to three at once. The forward sinner found that biting nothing when matched against the clawing, for at times his back was stripped completely of its hide. That soul up there who has to suffer most, my master said, Judas Ascariot, his head inside, he jerks his legs without. of those two others with their heads beneath the one who hangs from that black snout is brutus see how he writhes and does not say a word that other who seems so robust as cacias

but night has come again and it is time for us to leave we have seen everything just as he asked i clasped him around the neck and he watched for the chance of time and place and when the wings were open wide enough he took fast hold upon the shaggy flanks and then descended down from tough to tough between the tangled hair and icy crusts. When we had reached the point at which the thigh revolves, just as the swelling of the hip, my guide with heavy strain and rugged work reversed his head to where his legs had been and grappled on the hair as one who climbs. I thought that we were going back to hell. Old tight, my master said. He panted like a man exhausted. it is by such stairs that we must take our leave of so much evil.

Then he slipped through a crevice and a rock and placed me on the edge of it to sit. That done, he climbed toward me with steady steps. I raised my eyes believing I should see the half of Lucifer that I had left. Instead, I saw him with his legs turned up. And if I then became perplexed, do let the ignorant be judges,

those who cannot understand what point I had just crossed. get up my master said beyond your feet the way as long the path is difficult the sun's already back to middle tears it was no palace hall the place in which we found ourselves but with this rough hewn floor and scanty light a dungeon built by nature before i free myself from this abyss master i said when i stood up straight tell me enough to see i don't mistake where's this ice and how's he so placed head downward, tell me to how has the sun in so few hours gone from night to morning? And he to me, you still believe you're north of the center where I grasped the hair of the damned worm who pierces through the world. And you were there as long as I descended, but when I turned, that's when you pass the point to which from every part always are drawn. And now you stand beneath the hemisphere, posing that which clothes the great dry lands and

underneath whose veneth died the man whose birth and life were sinless in this world. Your feet are placed upon a little sphere that forms the other face of the Judeca. Here it is morning when it's evening there, and he whose hair has served us as a ladder is still fixed, even as he was before. This was the side on which he fell from heaven for fear of him. The land that once loomed here made of the sea of veil and rose into our hemisphere, And that land, which appears upon this side perhaps to flee from him, left here this hollow space and hurried upward. There's a place below, the limit of that cave, its farthest point from Beaselblub, a place one cannot see. It is discovered by year.

There is a sounding stream that flows along the hollow of a rock eroded by winding waters, and the slope is easy. My guide and I came on that hidden road to make our way back into the bright world, and with no care for any rest, we climbed. He first, eye following, until I saw, through a round opening some of those things of beauty heaven bears. It was from there that we emerged to see once more the stars. Okay, so the word we have for Canal 34 is anticlimatic, okay? this is not at all interesting or what we expected there's no sense of relief there's no sense of drama we built all the up all right to this canto and it's just like a huge disappointment

right we're expecting this beautiful lucifer who would tempt us with poetry and uh I don't even know what he is, actually. Okay? So this is really paradoxical. Again, the word is paradox. This makes no sense. Dante is not a bad writer. He is a good writer.

So how do you guys feel about this? Yes? My initial sense is that he doesn't want to risk priming us in any way bad. So he's, as we've been saying, if his poetry is priming us to put seeds in our brain of interesting thoughts. He doesn't even want to write the tempting words that Satan might have said to him down there in case it infects the reader even slight. Is sinning capable of speech?

I can't remember reading anything in this that says he's not. We know he's actually not capable of speech. Why? Yes? Yes. Yes. Go ahead. He's cheering on a sinner. Yeah, so his mouth is kind of busy. So he can't actually speak. But what else? Okay. All right. Did you have a comment?

We know he's actually not capable of speech, not just because his mouth is busy, but also because why? The lake in which he's frozen flips, no matter what aspect you look at him. So he's frozen from the middle to either extremity of his body, and therefore there's no way his being can communicate.

Yeah, that's interesting, yes. Okay. You're right. So is he conscious? Is he conscious? Let me ask you this question. Is this mosquito on your neck? What do you do? Yeah, you hit it on. Obviously, right? Is there mosquito on Satan? Is there mosquito on Satan? It's Virgil, man. What's he doing? Nothing. You understand. He's not even conscious.

What is he? He's not conscious, right? What is he really? NPC? No, I would say he's an MPC. I'd say he's even worse than an MPC. What? He's like a zombie?

No, he's even worse than a zombie, actually. Just look at it. Look the words that Donnie used to describe him, right? Like robot? He's even worse than a robot. What are the words that Donny used to describe? him he is a what he actually uses a certain words to describe the the the Lucifer what other words he uses first of all what is what is Lucifer doing

what is like literally doing it says he's the the most clear it says he's a ship what I've never seen a ship with say also why to like a ship is one of his words what's all the words a bird he says a bat and a bird what what line um well his wings are like yeah his wings are like bat but what is he read it carefully what words are being used to describe to me a grinder yes what else there are lots of these grinder what else i think he said giants or like really big at some point where formula line read we the poetry guys he's using specific words to describe um kind of animalistic

finding the words he says unsuited so they meant to bird bird this is a simile right i'm saying like what are the words that directly line six is blowing thick a windmill seems to wail and seem far off so a windmill what's the next line And in seven, he says, so then I seem to see that sort of structure. Structure. Do you understand? Windmill, structure, tower. He is a building.

He is a machine. That's all he is. He's not even conscious, right? He's an air conditioner. That's literally what he is. He's a giant air conditioner blowing wind to cool the lake. Yeah, that's all he is. He's an ice blower.

Like, what is going on here? Okay? That makes no sense. I think, yeah, it's the paradoxical source of cold. So if cold is molecules vibrating less and less quickly, somehow there has to be a source in this magic universe, and that's him. Right. So his punishment, his betrayal is so great because he's between God,

that his punishment is that he's lost all consciousness. Right? Now he's just a machine. That is how low he sunk. Is this a billion? He says, yes? Like, I was thinking if he is conscious, but he cannot do anything with his situation,

wouldn't that be like a worst punishment? Because now he is basically gone. And there's just his, like, it's just his physical being that is in hell, but not he's conscious or he's soul. Like, wouldn't it be a worse punishment if he knew what he was doing? So he couldn't do him. Is that you're saying he's comatose? He's a vegetable.

Kind of. Okay. Um, I don't, yeah, I mean like, like, I think he's just frozen, right? Because consciousness requires experience. Yes? Would venture to say that's his just punishment. Right. Lucifer's just punishment because he was anything but, and now seems like this power.

like this powerless, inert, frozen being that's just kind of not even at its will or has conscience. Right. Yes. Okay. And it's also funny that if God is a source of light and love and sun and, you know, everything, energy, heat, then Lucifer is the lack of. So like going back to Paradis or Cantor 1, you know, Stanza 1.

exactly right he's the mirror the opposite that's right exactly right remember like angels they all they can never turn away from god right when the moment they turn away from god they become this yes yeah i wonder not just in an ethical sense like if god is all good but just in a capability sense like i'm good at running um then having that lack of good in the capable sense satan even like uglino was good at being clever in locking people into that tower. And Satan is not good at anything because he can't do anything. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I mean, to answer the question, is it possible he's conscious, but he can't move? And the answer is, if you're conscious, he would be allowed to speak and talk about his punishment, right? Doesn't make sense? And the fact that he doesn't speak means he's not actually unconscious. Yes? But I think he does have some level of comprehension because of it. it does say that he's crying.

Right. That is correct. Yes. He feels, he is crying. Yes. That's a very interesting comment. Yes. And what would he make of this? Because he's clearly not conscious. It's almost like that analogy of the sort of vegetative state. Okay, yeah.

So it's possibly conscious and he's crying. Yes. Yes? Yeah. What I still don't really understand is we say Satan or Lucifer was an angel, but angels can never turn away from God. So how did he turn away from God? That's a great question.

Yes. Okay. That's also a paradox. Yes? I think Lucifer reminds me of a giant data center. It can host all kinds of programs. Can process information. But ultimately, it lacks his own soul.

Yeah, exactly. So he's clearly a machine. Okay. But let's try to figure out the question, okay? Because all angels are staring at God. They're turning towards God. And then Lucifer churns away. Yes? I think this is quite a prosaic interpretation, but because he's the god of light, sorry, the angel of light, it is in his essence. Darkness is also essential to his being,

just by being the angel of light. So he's like the most unlucky angel because of all of the ones that would ever slip up and turn to the darkness. It's going to be him because as the angel of light, that's the only way I can see. Yeah, so what, yes? Because I've heard that the God left Lucifer mostly. Yeah, so he's the love of God, right? He's God's lieutenant.

Yeah, the love is not limitation. Maybe can, you know. Right. So it's possible that he was the lieutenant and he had free will. he screwed up okay but then he wasn't an angel because angels don't have a free world right right no but like remember when we're up in paradiso there are different levels of angels there are different categories of angels right but we said all angels have no free will and conscious no consciousness no right right right but think think of them as you know organs and a body

right they're all different they also have a particular function and this particular function and this organ, Satan chose to become a cancer. And so the body threw him out. But what he didn't recognize is that what the body, the larger body, you as an organ have actually no purpose. And so you just decay and become dead. But he could still choose, but he still had a decision.

Or he could make a decision. But like if you don't have a free will, then how can you make a decision? Yes. I think that he was God's number two. Yes. So that he didn't have free will, but he was about as close as possible that any celestial intelligence could get.

That I know it's a, it's difficult for me as well, but I just think that it's God proving that whoever he gave, like imagine he has to organize his power in a certain way, amongst angels to exact his will or whatever. The one, that his number two, the one he gives the most power to is the one. most likely to betray him and turn away and have that capacity so was he was he always supposed to turn away from him that's a kind of thing a theme in paradise lost but i'm not sure it's a question i can ask okay all right so so let's let's first talk about things we know okay first of all we know that god's gift to humanity was free will and free will is what distinguishes us

from other beings okay that we know from uh paradiso we have free will and we can choose whatever path we want. That's number one. Okay. Number two is the functions of the angels in the heavens is to basically be organs of a body, right? To maintain the proper functioning of the universe. Okay.

So they don't actually have free will. They're just basically servants. Okay. So Lucifer was a head servant and he doesn't have free will. And so how does he turn away from God then? He doesn't have free will. How does he turn away from from God? I just think it's in the nature of the number two to eventually try to be number one.

Yeah, his nature has to be disobedience. Okay, that's the only thing that makes sense. like it's his nature to be disobedient it is his will to turn away from god that is his function truly from god why that's a case I don't really know okay so when God constructed this hierarchy

then he must have willed this that he would one day turn away yeah so God so okay right so the only thing that he cannot will is us he gives us free will okay but everything else he willed into being right right yes sometimes i think this is a little bit funny that it's almost like a father whose son is

really good at table tennis but the school he's sending his son who doesn't play table tennis so he tries to get the school to play table tennis before his son attends it so god let satan destroy the world so that jesus would be able to have as big of impact as possible yeah that's i mean that that's what christians believe right okay um yeah that that's a ds here like like everything happens for a reason but that's the case okay this creates another paradox which is there are three betrayers right three people are being punished and they are these are the worst offenders in human history and they are Jewish Ascariat they are Buddhism and Cassius

Buddhism and Cassius of course or the two who assassinate Julius Caesar but we know for a fact that there is a plan right the plan is to create Christian Christianity. Buddhists and Cassius were crucial to this plan because by killing Julius Caesar that enabled the rise of Augusta Caesar and the Roman Empire. And then, Jews is scared of this crucial this plan because about him, there would be no betrayal, right? And so Jesus would not be crucified.

So like, if it's all part of God's plan, why would these three be punished? Yeah? Because it's a vision being shown to Dante, to conscious minds, that if you showed that evil people sometimes are part of God's plan, I don't think that's a good image to spread. Okay. Yes. I don't know Dante would be a determinist that he's been harping on free will. That's right. That's right.

So that can't be the answer. Okay. Free will is a fundamental law of the universe, okay? So why are these three being punished? So in theology, I think they explain it like this, if I'm not mistaken, is that God has a plan for the world. He sees the ultimate ending of all your choices. He's kind of like AI, right? Like he can foresee like AlphaGo.

He can foresee your next step. He gives you free will, right, as the competitor on the other side of the goal game. So he knows ultimately as AI can calculate by mathematical formulas that you are going to end up at this step. So like all the betraylers, God can see. that they are going to end up doing that but god doesn't control and make you like you have to do that but god just kind of like silently watch behind the curtain and be like oh you're going there okay then there will be jesus or you're going that then there will be the holy roman empire so he doesn't interfere so he's not responsible for your fault so he's not willing planning you predetermining you to

make that fall but he kind of prepares like a i prepares like options one to 12 you know depends on you know i understand that but at the same time they are contributing to the vine plant right yeah go ahead i'm speculating i don't have a conclusion yeah yeah i don't all we're doing is because like again if you read all the commentary the scholarship on dante no one knows what's going on like like what's going on here right i'm um i want to follow up on that point of um just uh the the perception and how how psychedelics alters the filters and the ability for perception. It's almost like God, the Creator, is putting up a play for all as humans to watch.

The Matrix, you know, whatever it is, and it's for us to watch and perceive, but even this is not reality. Right, okay. And but it's meant to do something to open you up. Okay. Okay. Right. I don't think Don is that complicated. Let's let's focus on simple solutions, okay?

Okay. So again, like Occam's Razor, we are looking for elegant. So, so that, that's a great explanation. All these great are great explanations, but I'm looking for like a really elegant explanation for what's going on. Okay. Let's move towards elegance, clarity, and simplicity. Let everyone understands. Yes?

Online chat, so how Lucifer managed constant adversity for models in any and every degree is God's will. Okay. All right. Thank you for that. Yes? So we had said earlier, Augustine claims that God made hell, and hell is good because it's cosmic justice. You cannot have free will without evil. I don't know if Augustine comes to a determination that God made evil or if evil is a byproduct of free will.

will, but it seems like they go hand in hand. Okay. All right. So we're right enough time, okay? But let me explain what's going on, okay? There may be a divine plan. It doesn't matter, okay? Because we are the divine plan.

The imagination is the divine plan. And so what matters is not, is this advancing God's plan? That's not what matters, okay? The results don't matter. It's a process that matters. What matters is what effect does it have on us. Okay? Now, Brutus and Cassius are important because how do they assassinate Julius Caesar?

Do you guys know, do you guys know sort of Julius Caesar? Who are these people, Prudence and Cassius? Yes? So I think Julius Caesar was about to give a big speech. And in the forum before, they beckoned him in and said, let's have a meeting just prior to your big address to the Senate and then they killed him. But I'm saying like how do they get access to Julius Caesar? By being his friend, comrade, helper? Yeah.

To Buttis, okay? So you guys don't know this, but there's speculation that Brutus was his son. All right? So remember, this is, this is, um, when was Julius Caesar assassinated? Like, what, what year? 33? I can't, I actually remember when he was assassinated, okay? But it's like 10 years after these brutal civil wars when all these women were trying to kill each other.

And then Julius Caesar was only left standing. And everyone around him, so 44 BC, okay? But everyone around him were his best friends, his most loyal allies. And these were the people who betrayed him. You understand? Okay? So it goes back to the idea of betrayal of guests. But what this is is the betrayal of the host.

Does it make sense? They are guests in his house. He is basically emperor now. And they, yes. Is it not even worse? Is it because the Romans then later said that Jude Caesar's God says betrayal of God maybe even. Exactly. Exactly.

That's right. After Augustus Caesar comes from power, he elevates Judas Caesar to divinity. Okay. So this is why they're in hell. Because Buddhist and Cassus, not only they killed a host, right? But they killed God himself.

But in the Christian, from the Christian view, it wouldn't be, from Dante, it wouldn't be a god. Like, Joe Caesar wouldn't be a god from Dante's view. Yeah, but the question then is, who is really master of hell and who put these guys there? Virgil. Probably Virgil, okay, because we know it's not Lucifer. Do you understand? Okay, this is why the line comedy, it is so brilliant. Because this is a Hollywood movie, but it's a shock reveal.

You understand? It's a shock reveal. We thought, Lucifer was one in charge, but it was Virgil all along. Okay? Because why else are Buddhist and Cassius suffering like that? Okay, doesn't make sense. This is the shock reveal.

All right? But has Dante been tempted by Virgil? Right? We said that Lucifer's job is to tempt Jesus. Has Virgil tempted Dante? Has he succeeded in tempting. Dante. Somewhat because earlier in the Inferno seems fairly clear even if there are some doubts that

Dante does trust Virgil. Yeah, yeah. How does he trust Virgil? Okay, the scene is this, right? What lets him out of hell is Virgil climbs Lucifer. Where is Dante? Virgil is the one climbing Lucifer, right? Where is Dante?

On the back of Virgil. Right? Do you understand this? Okay? So they're climbing out of hell and they go into sunlight. What does this remind you of? This is an allegory for what? The like medieval myth, mythos of saving and like abduction or saving like the princess. Much more simple than that.

Yes? Icar. What? The one that flew and that got too close to the sun. Oh, Acaris? Acaris, yeah. Yes? Oh, just stepping on the shoulders of giants to reach ahead.

Oh, yeah, yeah. That's an interesting. But that's not one thing about, okay? Yes. Birth? Yes. It's birth, man. Right?

Think about how the mother takes you from the darkness into the light for her own exertion. Right? It's marrying birth. It's hell. It's complete darkness. and Virgil is climbing Lucifer with Dante on his back and they go into the light. It's exertion, right?

So has Virgil succeeded? Yeah, he's made Dante into his son. Once we leave inferno, the temptation is complete. It's a journey into temptation, right? It's a journey into sin, into darkness. And now Dante is completely beholden to Virgil as his son. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah, because later we see as well that Dante misses Virgil.

Yes, that's right. Okay. Do you see how beautiful this is? It's any climatic, but it's perfect ending. And it's so symbolic. Right? Does that make sense to you guys? All right. Any questions? or comments about this yes

a metaphor kind of makes me think about oh it's so evangelical to say but like so that like our 300 hundred years on earth it's kind of like this uh journey of in the mother's room and growing and learning about the ultimate reality like pluto said that he has seen outside of the cave and so that after this one hundred years we are officially entering internal life to live life to the fullest in heaven or whatever places. So it's kind of the same as this ending, I feel like. Exactly. Another comment I'll make is like the birth is an allegory for Dundee reading the

Ineat, right, in Latin. Because at this time, everyone memorized the Ineat in Latin. And it's a really good way to learn Latin, by the way. So it's, so it's an allegory for that. Like you reading the NAD is like Virgil giving birth to you. Okay. this is this is again the beauty of the line comedy this now is a cliffhanger right because lucifer has exceeded in tempting jesus the temptation is complete and so the so now what's going to happen is

we know we've read paradise okay we know that paradise paradiso it is vision and revelation it mirrors um the book of revelation okay we know that we also know like inferno is really prophecy. It is a criticism of Italy. Okay. So what Purgatory has to be is a pilgrimage or a journey. Okay. It's going to be literally a journey away from Virgil and into Beatrice.

Away from hell and into heaven. Okay. And this is like the grand scheme. of the divine comedy. All right? So when we come back, we're going to look at how Virgil is really Lucifer. All right?

So enjoy your break. We'll come back an hour. Good afternoon. So a couple of issues from this morning. The first issue is why is Lucifer crying? We said he was not conscious. We said he was just a building. Why is he crying?

This has to do with the idea that all beings aspire to be with God. The closer you are to God, the happier you are, the further away from God, the unhappier you are. And Lucifer, because of his betrayal, he is now permanently away from God. And that's why he cries. He'll cry for all eternity. Also remember in Limbo, even though Limbo is a really nice retirement community, it's just like Earth. a very nice Italy, they're all sighing because they can never be with God, okay? So that's why Lucifer is crying.

It doesn't actually mean he's conscious, but it just means that he's sad. He has the eternal unhappiness because he is forever away from God. Second question that we discussed this morning that needs to be clarified is, why did Satan rebel? Okay. And I said something really incorrect. this morning, which is like angels do not have free will. In fact, they do have free will, but they have perfect free will, which means they have perfect obedience to God. Like once you reach perfection,

free will is perfect obedience. And that's what Oxen says in the city of God. So imagine a situation where in the beginning there were the angels. And this is before God created us. And the angels, they have free will, and some chose to rebel. like Lucifer and some chose side of God. And it's created the war in heaven, right? And there's something that Milton writes about in Paradise Lost. But there's this war in heaven. And those who started with Lucifer, they're cast into hell.

And those who stayed with God stayed in heaven. And because they chose God, they forever will look towards him and can never look away from him because they already made that choice. And as such, heaven is able to reach perfection. Okay? And this state of affairs also foretells our fate where, remember, there's a day of judgment, and the day of judgment is, do you choose God or to choose Satan? Those who choose Satan will be forever punished in hell, and those who choose God will

create heaven on earth, okay? It will literally be heaven coming on earth. So that's the idea of why Satan rebelled. He had free will, and he chose to rebel because of his pride. He wanted to be like God, just as, like, how Adam and Eve ate the food in order to be like God. And this caused a war in heaven, and after this war, heaven became perfect, because everyone became completely loyal to God. It doesn't make sense.

Okay. So, what we ended with this morning is the idea that the real Satan, the real master of hell, is Virgil. Okay? And that's why the canto is constructed the way it is. So to further appreciate this idea, what we're going to do is we're going to go and we examine Cantor 30, okay? Kenil 30, we don't have to go back yet, but Kenile 30, remember, there's this argument, this fight, and it broke out between Sinon and Master Adam. Master Adam is a counterfeiter. They're trying to argue who's worse, okay? Master Adam is a counterfeiter who basically diluted gold to make Florens. Florence is the currency of Florence. And at this point in history, it is the most valuable currency, the most, the most, credible currency in the world because it's pure gold. And so when Master Adam, he dilutes the Florians,

the Florians is burning back the stake, okay? That's how seriously they took it. Ceylon is the Greek soldier who tricked the Trojans into lending in the Trojan horse. And we're going to read the speech by Sanan to the Trojans that convinced them to let in the Trojan horse. And they're trying to argue

who's worse. The perjurer who is sin on, the false witness, or the counterfeiter, Master Adam. And we have to think about why this fight is happening. Remember, whenever Donnie creates a paradox, the goal is to make us think much deeper

about the underlying message, the underlying text. So first thing I want to do is we're going to go and read the Inniad. And this is book two where Innius is recounting the fall of Troy. And so if you know the history, what happens is the Greeks try for 10 years to breach the walls of Troy. They can't do it. So like, okay, we're kind of stuck. And so Ulysses proposes the Trojan horse.

And so they pretend to run away. the Greeks pretend to run away, and they leave behind the Trojan horse. And, of course, inside the Trojan horse are Ulysses, Achilles, Achilles, all the great Greek champions. It's a trap, right? And the Trojans have the debate about what to do with the horse, and everyone's like, well, obviously, this is a trap. This is like, burn it, man. And then what turns the tide is, Sinon, the Greek soldier, comes in, and he tricks. the Trojans, okay? So we'll read up, you know, about a couple hundred lines, but I just want to get you a feel of what's going on, okay? All right, can you please?

Suddenly, in the think of it all, a young soldier hand shackled behind his back, with much shouting, Trojan shepherds were hailing him toward the king. They'd come on the man by chance, a total stranger. He'd given himself up with one goal in mind, to open Troy to the Greeks and lay her way. waste. He trusted to courage, nourished for either end, to weave his lies or face his certain death. Young Trojan's recruits, keen to have a look, came scurrying up from all sides, crowding round, outdoing each other to make a mockery of the captive. Now hear the treachery of the Greeks and learn from a single crime the nature of the beast. Haggard, helpless, there in our midst he stood, all eyes riveted on him now, and turning a wary glance at the lines of Trojan troops he groaned and spoke. Where can I find some refuge? We're on land, on sea. What's left for me?

A man of so much misery. Nothing among the Greeks no place at all. And worse, I see my Trojan enemies crying for my blood. His groans convinced me, cutting all our show of violence short. We press him. Tell us where you were born, your family. What news do you bring? Tell us what you trust to, such a willing captive. Okay, so this morning we talked about Satan, right? How if Darnay were to meet Satan and Satan would with poetry with lyrical poetry tempt him. And the first thing that's it would do is elicit his sympathy, right? And that's exactly what Sinan is doing here. Keep on going.

All of it, my king, I'll tell you, come what may. The whole true story, Greek I am, I don't deny it. Now that first, fortune may have made me a man of misery, but wicked as she is. She can't make Sinan a lying fraud as well. Now, perhaps you've caught some rumor of Pilemedes, Bellis' son, and his shining fame that rings in song. The Greeks charged him with treason, a trumped-up charge, an innocent man, and just because he opposed the war, they put him to death.

But once he's robbed at the light, they mourn him sorely. Now, I was his blood kin, a youngster when my father, a poor man, sent me after the war at Troyes as Palamedis' comrade, long as he kept his royal status holding forth in the the councils of the kings, I had some standing too, some pride of place. But once he left the land of the living, thanks to the jealous, forked tongue of our Ulysses, you're no stranger to his story. I was shattered. I dragged out of my life, I dragged out my life in the shadows, grieving, seething alone, in silence. Outraged by my innocent friend's demites, until I burst out like a madman, swore if I ever returned and triumphed to our native Argos, ever got the

chance I'd take revenge and my oath provoked a storm of hatred. That was my first step on the slippery road to ruin. From then on, Ulysses kept tormenting me, pressing charge on charge. From then on, he brooded about this two-edged rumors among the rank and file. Driven by guilt, he looked for ways to kill me. He never rested until, making Calcutt, his henchmen. But why now? Why go over that ungiving ground again? Okay, stop. Okay, right. So this is a very long speech. But the idea is with his poetry, he's able to elicit sympathy, and that convinced the Trojans to let in the Trojan horse, even though the common sense tells them we shouldn't actually take gifts from strangers, okay? Like, we shouldn't actually let this thing in. We don't know what it is. And that's really the power of poetry, okay? So that's Sinan. And that's why he's condemned to hell because he hijacked people's to imagine. in order to feed them a false narrative that destroyed their city. Okay, now we're going to Cantle 30 and I want to read the argument between Master Adam, the counterfeiter, and Sainan.

Okay, so this is line 91. Cantor 30, Infernal, line 91. Okay, and this is after Master Adam told Dante's story of how he engaged in counterfeiting and sort of Florentine's burning with a stake. And I to him, for those two poor sinners who give off smoke like wet hands in the winter and lie so close to you upon the right i found them here he answered when i rained down to this rocky slope they've not stirred sins and will not move i think eternally one is the lying woman who blamed joseph the other lying xenon greek from troy because of raging fever they wreak so and one of them who seemed to take offense perhaps at being named so squalibly struck with his fist at Adam's rigid belly. Okay, so I thought I was just asking Adam, who are these other two people being punished here?

And Adam's like, well, and so he names them, and one of them sign on, who, for all eternity, has not stirred, he just lies there in a raging favor. That fever, that's his punishment. He hears his name, he gets really angry, and he takes offense and punches Adam. Okay, keep on going. It sounded as if it had been a drum,

and Master Adam struck him in the face using his arm, which did not seem less hard, saying to him, although I cannot move my limbs because they're too heavy, I still have an arm that's free to serve that need. And he replied, but when you went to burning, your arm was not as quick as it was now, though when you coined it was as quick as more. So now they're just insulting each other, okay?

Keep more going. To which the drop seed one, hear you speak true, but you were not so true witness there, when you were asked to tell the truth of Troy. If I spoke false, you falsified the coin, said Ceynon. I'm here for just one crime, but you've committed more than any demon. So sometimes like, well, I spoke false, but you falsified the coin, right?

And in every country, you would get punished a lot more for counterfeiting than you would for lying, right? In fact, I think the worst punishment is counterfeiting, right? Sorry, the worst crime is counterfeiting, right? what does a single service do in the United States? It looks for counterfeiters, okay? It's a very serious thing. And when Isaac Newton was head of the mint

in England, if he caught you counterfeiting, he would like basically torture you to death, okay? It's a very serious thing. And so it sounds like just pointing this up, pointing out, like you folks on the coins a lot worse than what I did. All I did was just lie.

Right? Keep on going? not forget the horse you perjurer replied the one who had the bloated belly May you be plagued because the whole world knows it And what Adam says is for your lie You let the Trojans letting the Trojan civilization

Okay, so the consequences were Much worse And you be plagued by thirst that cracks your tongue And putrid water that has made your belly Such a hedge before your eyes And then the corner So as usual your mouth because of racking fever gaites,

for if I thirst and if my humor bloats me, you have both dryness and a head that aches. Few words would be sufficient imitation to have you lick the mirror of narcissus. I was intent on listening to them when this was what my master said. If you insist on looking more, I'll quarrel with you.

And when I heard him speak so angrily, I turned around to him with shame so great that it still stirs within my memory. Okay, so what is strange about this, what's going on? What stands out about this story, about this passage? What does Virgil do here that he's

never done before? And he'll never do again, actually. He's stopping the conversation. He's stopping Dante from digging deeper. Okay, but he's done that before, right? He's switched topics, he's... But here he's doing something that he's never done before and he'll never do again. Is he threatened Dante? He's angry with Dante.

Right? He's never done that before. Okay, so what's he angry about? Why is he angry? All right, so the paradox is this, okay? Virgil is angry at Dante, because Dante is watching a fight between Master Adam and Senan. Right? And Master Adam and Sinai arguing who's worse?

Master Adam says, Simon says, you counterfeit the coin, so you're worse. and then what should Massadam's response be? You count the coin, that's pretty bad, but there's something actually worse than counterfeiting the coin, which is what? Yes?

Counterfeiting a gift in the sense that it's a poisoned gift? That's interesting. What's the worst thing you can do in university? Plagiarism, right? Plagiarism is a lot worse in counterfeiting the coin. Right? If you're at university and you started to kind of fit money, yeah, they might four you in prison. But if you plagiarized, you would be foreign out of university forever.

But so what is San Juan on plagiarizing? Do you guys know? Is it something that somebody says in the Bible that... You read the Inniat, right? What is that plagiarizing? I can't remember. I'm sorry. You guys don't learn this at school? It was just for Latin translation too.

Oh, okay. So you've got parts of it. The major parts, yeah. Okay. What does plagiarizing mean? Oh, plagiarism means to steal ideas from other people and pretend it to your own. Well, he stole poetry, maybe. From who?

Virgil. And now, not at Homer. Yeah, so Virgil stole from Homer, right? The Inniad stole from the Iliad and the Odyssey and it corrupted the Iliad and the Aalianian. Odyssey, much the way that a counterfeiter corrupts coin, right? You understand? A counterfeiter takes real gold, dilutes it, add some lead, and pretend it's real gold. What Virgil did was he stole from the Elan Odyssey, polluted it, and pretend it's real poetry.

You understand? Okay. So this is drawing attention to the fact that basically Virgil plagiarized Homer. And this And this is why Virgil is angry Because what does a plagiarizer Hate the most? To me?

Being found out, right? Being accused of plagiarism. Right? And so Virgil's very, very angry. What's the paradox here? Excuse me? Is it that he's the guide to hell? Yeah, like, why is Sainahan

burning here? and Virgil's okay Right? Because it's Virgil Who created the character Sinan and allow Sinan to lie It's not Sign on that's a problem It's the Ineats

That's a problem Okay does that make sense? Yes Like before he died He was like please burn all this stuff That means that his consciousness knows that what he did was wrong So he sort of repented before he died Yeah but if he repented then where should he be Uh heaven

No actually nimbo, but which he is. No, no, he should be in purgatory. Oh, progatory, yeah. Yeah, okay. So, that's not the answer. Okay, it's possible, right? But again, this is raising a paradox, which is like, why is Sinan here

when the real culprit, Virgil, the plagiarist, he's walking free around hell, he's able to control hell, and he's able to decide that Cassus and Buddhists will be tortured by Lucifer. Well, yes? Well, I think because Sinon actually believes that he did something wrong

and Virgil believes that he did nothing wrong when he stole. So I think Virgil already forgived himself for what he did, but Sinai can't forgive himself for what he did to the Trojans. Okay. That's interesting. Okay. Does Sinai think he did anything wrong? He knows he lied, but did he do anything wrong?

Is it that Virgil admits that he did plagiarism by being angry at being accused of plagiarism? Well, he's angry because he doesn't want to admit it, right? Okay? So again, this creates all these paradoxes here. And so I want you guys to keep this at the back of your mind. why is it that Virgil is not punished at all for his crimes? And why is hell structured the way it is? Yes?

But if Virgil is basically like Lucifer, then his main aim is to deceive Dante. So therefore he can't in front of Dante be seen to be punished for his sins. But I don't understand this. His main aim is to deceive Dante, to tempt Dante. I understand that. But why would he be allowed to do that? Yes? I think that he's made the master of hell,

and one of the key things of the anead was about duty and the killing of Ternus. And I was thinking about this, why it's such a beautiful thing that Virgil is the guide and master of hell, that many, many people who sin do so because they feel forth. by themselves. And so Virgil's not being punished, but his punishment is that he has to guide everybody around because it's the very force that the aneered put into people's hearts that made them sin in years to come. Okay, that's interesting, but the fact is that Virgil is not the guide of hell. He's got the guy to Dante. He was appointed by Beatrice to be the guide, but he's usually

in limbo. But he can want around hell. He's very, and he knows hell very well, right? If he's able to climb Lucifer, then he knows hell like the back of his hand. But again, these are all paradoxes. And as we go into purgatory, the answers will be revealed to us. Okay? All right, so this is purgatory 1. Pergatory Cantal 1. The course across more kindly waters now,

my talent's little vessel lives herself, leaving behind herself a sea so cruel. And what I sing will be that second kingdom in which the human soul is cleansed of sin, becoming worthy of ascent to heaven. But here, since I am yours, O holy muses, may this poem rise again from Hell's dead realm, and may Calliope rise somewhat here, accompanying my singing with that music

whose power struck the poor Piarities so forcefully that they despaired of pardon. The gentle hue of oriental sapphire in which the sky's serenity was steeped, its aspect pure as far as the horizon. Okay, so let me test your memory, okay? So again, there's parallelism, symmetry in the Divine Comedy. Here, he's saying, I now want to write about purgatory.

I now sing about purgatory. So muses come and give me inspiration, okay? In Paradise, when he was running about the heavens, who did he call to inspire him? Apollo and the muses. Do you understand? So he's saying here, progatory, the muses inspire me. but in heaven, I need everyone. I'll poll, the muses, everyone to fully inspire me.

Okay, keep on going. Line 16, brought back my joy in seeing just as soon, as I had left behind the air of death that had afflicted both my sight and breast. The lovely planet that is patroness of love made all the eastern heavens glad, veiling the Pisces and the train she led. Then I turned to the right, setting my mind upon the other pole, and saw four stars not seen before except by the first people. Heaven appeared to revel in their flames, O Northern Hemisphere, because you were denied that sight, you're a widower.

After my eyes took leave with those four stars, turning a little toward the other pole, from which the wane had disappeared by now, I saw a solitary patriarch near me, his aspect worthy of such reverence that even son to father owes no more. His beard was long and mixed with white, as were the hairs upon his head, and his hair spread down to his chest in a divided truss. The rays of the four holy stars so framed his face with light that in my sight he seemed like one who's confronted by the sun. Okay, stop. Okay, so the solitary patriarch. He is the master of purgatory and his name is Cato. Can someone tell me why having Cato as a master of purgatory is such a paradox? Yes? Because he was born before the time of Jesus, so he should be in Limbo. Exactly. Number one is he is not a Christian. He is not a Christian. Virgil told us explicitly that unless you are baptized, you cannot leave limbo. Yes?

I think if my memory serves historically that Cato was seen to be somebody who was so talented that whenever he did anything, it was like he had done it from birth, like he knew how to do it from birth. So if we him to be the master of purgatory that you live and then this is your journey to heaven, it's ironic because he seemed to have grasped everything very quickly in his life. Okay, sure. Okay, but that's not necessarily a paradox. Like, the fact that he is not a Christian, that's a paradox. But there are some other paradoxes as well. Why should kill not be in purgatory?

In fact, he should be infernal. Why? Was he amongst the people who killed Caesar? No, but he rebelled against Caesar, right? He rebelled against Caesar. He was on the side of Pompeii. So if, I'm trying to figure this out. If Julius Caesar is in limbo and if the people kill Julius Caesar,

Putin and Cassius are the worst people in the world. And Cato fought against Caesar. Why is Caesar master of purgatory? Okay, that's another paradox. And there's one more paradox. And this is actually the most, this is actually the biggest paradox. How did he die? Suicide.

Right? Suicide. In Catholic theology at this time, suicide goes straight to hell. No questions, no doubts. Straight to hell, guys, okay? So we have three axes against Cato. He's not a Christian. He rebelled against Caesar and he killed himself.

Okay? So he should be in a circle of violence with the other people who committed suicide. He should be a tree and now he's massive purgatory. So something is really weird going on. Okay? Uh, yes? I'm not sure how he, why he committed suicide, but I would guess it's because of his honor for, um, whatever, um, the side that he

served for, for Pompeii, I would guess maybe. He committed suicide because his side was losing. and Caesar was offering clemency to everyone, right? And so what was going to happen is Caesar would have come to Cato and says, Cato, I forgive you. And will you please be a senator? And Cato's like, I don't want this crap. I'm going to kill myself because that's the honorable thing to do.

Right? He didn't not want to give Julius Caesar the opportunity to show clemency. So that's pretty bad, right? I mean, to kill yourself for this? Just like, like, it's kind of petty, really, right? All right. So that's Cato. And Cato and Virgil knew each other.

Right? They are contemporaries. So Virgil and Dante are not in purgatory. Cato comes up and he sees Virgil. How should he react? I mean, how would you react if you saw someone from like a previous life? Yeah, you'd be pretty happy, right? You'd be pretty happy, like a childhood best friend.

You haven't seen for like 40 years. You're like, oh, my God, I run into you in the streets of Rome. Let's chat. Let's get a coffee. Let's reminisce. Right? Yes? Is this a suspicion that Virgil put Cato there in some way?

Or that he was responsible for Cato being placed there? In purgatory? Okay. Because Virgil, where's Virgil? At this moment or in general? In general, in limbo. In limbo, right? And why is he in limbo?

Because he was brought up there as by... There's only one reason why he's in limbo, according to Virgil. He's not a Christian, right? He was not baptized as a Christian. That's the only reason. Right? So it doesn't make any sense why he would tell us this and then put Cato in purgatory, okay? All right.

So yeah, we would imagine that Virgil and Cato are good friends and, and, And it would be a happy reunion. Okay, let's keep on reading. Line 40, Who are you? Who against the hidden river were able to escape the eternal prison, he said, moving those venerable plumes? Who was your guide?

What served you both as lantern when from the deep night that will always keep the hellish-felly dark you were set free? The loss of the abyss, have they been broken? Or has a new, a change decree in heaven, let you, though damned approach my rocky sloth? There's a really ironic sentence here. What is it? What's the really ironic sentence in the speech? It's really ironic.

No. Where should kid be? He should be in limbo at least, right? So what does he say that that's kind of ironic? It's like, uh, what? That he knows what hell is like? No, no, I'm saying like, what did he say in the speech? That's ironic. Where you're able to escape.

Yeah. Like how did you get here? It's like, well, okay, Katie, but how did you get here? Right? That's kind of ironic. Right? How are you able to escape the eternal prison? The eternal prison is like, no one can escape it.

But he did. All right, so it's ironic. All right. Keep on going. Line 49. My guy took hold of me decisively by way of words and hands and other signs. He made my knees and brow show reverence. Then he replied,

I do not come through my own self. There was a lady sent from heaven. Her please let me to help and guide this man. But since your will would have a far more full, an accurate account of our condition, my will cannot withhold what you request. This man had yet to see his final evening, but through his folly, little time was left before he did.

He was so close to it. As I have told you, I was sent to him for his deliverance. The only road I could have taken was the road I took. I showed him all the people of perdition. Now I intend to show to him those spirits who in your care are bent on expiation. To tell you how I let him would take long, it is a power descending from above that helps me guide him here, to see and hear you. Now may it please you to prove his coming, he goes in search of liberty, so precious as he who gives his life for it must know. You know it who in Utica found death for freedom was not bitter, when you left the garb that will be bright on the great,

Okay, so he's referencing, Virgil is referencing how Kato killed himself in Utica rather and submit to Caesar. Okay. All right. Come on going. Line 76. Eternal edicts are not broken for us. This man's alive and I'm not bound by Minos, but I'm from the circle where the chaste

eyes of your Marsha are. And she still prays to you a holy breast to keep her as your own for her love, then inclined to us. Allow our journey through your southern realm. I shall thank her for kindness you bestow if you would let your name be named below. Okay, so Virgil is telling Cato why they're here and Virgil explains that Dante is not dead so he can move around and he was never sentenced to the inner circles of hell so he's free to move around. And also, Cato, hey, your wife, Marcia, she's with me.

And if you help us, then I'll go back and help Marcia. Okay. Does it sound like friends to you? All right. Well, we'll keep on reading here, okay? 85. While I was there within the other world, Marcia so pleased my eyes. He then replied, each kindness she required, I satisfied.

Okay, so he's saying before he was in limbo. Okay? Right? Before I was in limbo with Marcia Keep on going Now that she dwells Beyond the evil river She has no power to move me any longer

Such was the law decreed when I was freed But if a lady come from heaven's beat Then helps you as you say There's no need of flattery It is enough indeed to ask me for her sake Go then but first wind A smooth rush around his waist And bathe his face to wash away

All of hell's stains For it would not be seemingly to approach with Isle still dimmed by any myths, the first custodian angel, one from paradise. This solitary island all around its very base, there where the breakers pound bears rushes on a soft and muddy ground. There's no other plant that lives below, no plant with leaves or plant that as it grows hardens and breaks beneath the waves harsh blows. That done do not return by this same pass. The sun which rises now will show you how this hillside can be climbed more easily. So, Virgil says, how does Kido respond to Virgil's speech? Anyone? Rather sarcastic?

Does he like Virgil? He hates Virgil. He's like, don't mention Marcia to me, you asshole. Okay. I want to help you because Beatrice told me to, but that's why. not because you can help Marcia. Okay, so they're like enemies. They don't really like each other.

And this makes you question who Virgil really is, right? What is Cato not like Virgil, yes? In line 95, 96, he tells him that his face and his body should be washed of hell, basically. so he knows that Virgil is hell itself or like

he has so much so many like yeah this is a really really interesting reading right so literally it just means

Dante has been through hell and his face is dirty right because hell is like lots of dirt and fire

so go wash your face because this is purgatory but you can also say that it's metaphorical in that

Virgil has corrupted Dante in this journey by feeding him a lot of lies about about hell. So what's important is for Dante to begin to cleanse himself of Virgil's lies. Okay? Right? To remove Virgil's influence from himself.

Yeah, that's a very interesting reading, yes. Okay. All right. Let's keep on reading. 9-109. With that he vanished, and without a word I wrote and drew in closer to my guide, and it was on him that I set my eyes. And he began, sun following my step.

Let us go back. This is the point at which the plane slopes down to reach its lowest bound. Daybreak was vanquishing the dark last hour, which fled before it in the distance. I could recognize the trembling of the sea. We made our way across the lonely plain, like one returning to a lost pathway, who till he finds it seems to move in vain. when we had reached the point where dew contends the sun and under sea winds and the shade winds out because it won't evaporate my master gently placed both of his hands outspread upon the grass therefore aware of what his gesture and intention were i reached and offered him my tear-strained cheeks and on my cheeks he totally revealed the color that infernal had concealed then we arrived at the deserted shore which never yet had seen its waters coursed by any

man who journeyed back again. There, just as pleased another, he girted me. Oh, wonder, where he plucked the humble plant that he had chosen. There, that plant sprang up again, identical immediately. Okay, so we are in the beaches of Purgatory. Okay, so Purgatory is a mountain. In order to cleanse yourself, you climb up this mountain, and in each terrace of the mountain, you have to do an activity to cleanse yourself of the seven deadly sins. But we are not. not on the mountain yet. We are outside the mountain on the beaches. This is a place called anti-procatory, which is people who repentant late in life. And so they must wait and fully serve their penance before they're allowed to enter progatory. Once they end

to purgatory and they cleanse themselves, then they are able to ascend to heaven. Okay? Yes? So is there a sense of time in purgatory? That's a really good question. So what Dante is going to to do a lot is talk about the sun rise. Okay. And one thing that's really important to keep in mind is that the rules governing purgatory are different from the rules governing hell. Hell is like eternal torment. There's no time. It's all just fire and darkness. But in procuratory, there's night and day. And you can only climb during the day at night you have to rest. And this It's going to be very important for us because during the night you dream, right?

So the dreams are going to be very important as well. So there is time, but I don't know how to tell time because a lot of this is astronomy, right, reading the stars, figure out where the sun is. And I actually don't know how that works. Because you say that the mind creates time and space to, to see reality or like to percept reality right did we create time in purgatory to accept purgatory or like this time out of ourselves

in that sense okay this is a really interesting question because one very important idea in progatory is that you have to serve your time right it could be a million years and it could be a thousand years and so i think the idea of time in progatory is It's not physical time, right? It's not like, you know, you actually keep a clock and you wait 10,000 years. It's really about emotional time. So basically it's like you're meditating and you're meditating and trying to cleanse your soul. And it doesn't, we don't actually know physically how much time it takes, okay?

but there is a time element to it. Does that make sense? So I really don't understand talking about well in proletorough, okay? All right. Let's keep reading. Canto 2. By now the sun was crossing the horizon

of the meridian whose highest point covered Jerusalem. And from the Ganges night, circling opposite the sun, was moving together with the scales that when the length of dark defeats the day, desert night's hands. so that above the shore that i had reached the fair aurora's white and scarlet cheeks were as aurora aged becoming orange we still were by the sea like those who think about the journey they will undertake who go in heart but in the body's day and just as mars when it is overcome by the invading mists of dawn glows red above the water's plain low in the west so there appeared to me and may i see it again a light that crossed the sea so swift there's no flight

of bird to equal it when for a moment I'd withdraw my eyes that I might ask the question of my guide, I saw that light again, larger and more bright. Okay, so to continue your question, clearly there's time here, right? And there was no time in hell. So we discussed how we create time and space with our imagination. So I think the idea here is that in hell, just trapped in hell. There is no time and space because we're just trapped there. Whereas in Pocotori, there's now motion, meaning there's now free will, meaning there is now agency. There's more, you can now actively participate in life. Does that make sense? Yeah, but Canto was in Kato was in hell before, right? So how did he escape without

a free will if you say there's no free will in hell yeah that against a paradox okay and here we will just have to use our imagination does anyone know

how we can resolve this paradox yes my memory is quite hazy but I thought that maybe it was Jesus or some redeeming force who is shunting people up shunted the very best souls up

from Inferno and that they didn't make it to heaven, but then they were either in limbo or therefore in purgatory. Exactly. Yeah. So what we know is that Jesus did take away with him the best souls. But the people he took were like of the Hebrew Bible, right? David, Abraham, Moses. What is Cato doing with them?

Okay. So this is hard, okay? But one possible solution is this. So what we learn in paradise is that there are certain people who are born before the time of Jesus. And even though they were not officially Christian and that they were baptized, they were Christian that their heart was in the right place. And they knew that Jesus was coming. and so they prepared for the coming of Jesus, even though they did not see Jesus in their lifetime.

Does that make sense? And Cato must have been one of these individuals who knew Jesus was coming, and he submitted himself before Jesus, even though, and he didn't live long enough for the coming of Jesus. And when Jesus went down to hell, he could see that Cato,

even though he was not officially Christian, he was in his heart Christian. Okay. That's how makes sense guys. Yes? With the Catholic doctrine as well, that's why Catholic is very well embracing, not really important. I don't know what's the right word, but yeah, of the people who fundamentally essence has these doctrines or, you know, leave out the life of faith. However, you define faith. But yeah. Yeah. And later on, we will discover people who actually like that, okay? they did not convert to Christian in their lifetime,

but in their hearts they were Christian. Before Jesus came, they were already Christian, and that's why they were able to ascend to progatory as well as to paradise. We'll learn more about this later on, right? Yes? Yes, but I have a question because just you said, only your heart is not enough for you to go to the heaven,

but you have to baptize, right? Yeah, but that's what they're saying here. It's not the act that matters. It's the heart that matters. It's the will and the desire that matters. Okay. Okay. Yes.

Jesus also said that greater is the he who has faith before he has seen it. So it's a lot of these people before he was born sort of believed in him or believe in some sort of this idea of redemption or Messiah. Then they have greater faith to the disciples like Peter or John who has seen them put their hands through Jesus' peers' hands. that you know these forefathers whoever they are in the earth yeah deserves yes okay so that's a logic okay again we'll never know it's a paradox created by the divine comedy but this is one way to resolve this paradox all right okay line 22 then to each side of it i saw whiteness though i did not know what the whiteness was below another whiteness lowly

showed my master did not say a word before the whiteness's first scene appeared as wings but But then when he had recognized the helmsman, he cried, Ben, bend your knees, behold the angel of God, and join your hands. From this point on, this is the kind of minister you'll meet. Okay, so it's these angels that are guardians of purgatory, okay? Before in hell, there were these demons, now they're these angels. So at each major checkpoint, there are these angels. Keep on going.

Line 31. See how much scoring he has for human means. He'd have no other sale than his own way. and use no ore between such distant shores. See how he holds his wings pointing to heaven, piercing the air with his eternal pinions, which do not change as mortal plumage does. Then he, that bird divine, as he drew closer and closer

to seem to gain in brightness, so that my eyes could not endure his nearness. And I was forced to lower them, and he came on to shore with boats so light, so quick that nowhere did the water swallow it. The helmsman sent from heaven at the stern seemed to have blessedness inscribed upon him. More than a hundred spirits sat within. In Aisik to Israel day Ajibtu, with what is written

after of that psalm, of all of the spirits sang as with one voice. Then over them he made the Holy Cross a sign. They flung themselves down on the shore and he moved off as he had come swiftly. The crowd that he had left along the beach seemed not to know the place. They looked about like those whose eyes try out things new to them. Upon a all sides, the sun shot forth the day, and from mid-heaven its incisive arrows already had chased Capricorn away, when those who just arrived looked at their heads toward us and said, Do show us if you know the way by which we can ascend this slope. And Virgil answered, You may be convinced that we're quite familiar with this shore, but we're strangers here,

just as you are. We came but now a little while before you, though by another path so difficult and dense that this ascent seemed sport to us. The souls who, noticing my breathing, sensed that I was still a living being, then out of astonishment, turned pale, and just as people crowd around a messenger who bears an olive branch to hear his news, and no one hesitates to join that crush, so here those happy spirits, all of them, stirred hard at my face, just as if they had forgotten to proceed to their perfection. I saw one of those spirits moving forward in order to embrace me. His affection so great that I was moved to mine has welcomed.

Okay, stop. Okay, all right. So again, this is mirroring hell. Remember how when Virgil took Dante into hell, they have to cross the river, Akron, right? And there's all these souls lining up to cross the river. And the same thing is happening here, where there are souls lining up to cross the river into anti-procatory.

the area before the mountain. Can you explain to me or just list for me the differences between these two groups? The first group in hell, second group, impregatory. What are the differences you notice? It's pretty stark, actually, these differences. What are they doing here that Solz didn't do in hell? Looking around for the new environment. Yes, this is very important, okay?

They're curious, okay? Remember, and like it's very explicit, uh, the line, right? Um, their eyes try, look, look at line 54. Whose eyes try out things new to them. They're curious. They want to learn. Okay? It's pretty stark.

That's one. They're curious. What's the other thing? Yes? Uh, asking about the place. They ask, they talk, man. Think about it. How in hell, the souls just didn't talk. Right? They talk. They asked questions. Yes?

I feel like in spirit, they feel a lot more optimistic. Yeah, they're active, right? Whereas in Inferno, they were passive. They were just indifferent. Nothing could move them. Yes? 73. So here, those happy spirits, all of them, stare hard at my face. So it's like, they're really happy. Like, people in hell just, not they're happy that's right they're happy they're optimistic exactly yes and also what are they doing that that never happens in hell they're embracing each other they're touching each other uh what else what they're doing here that never happens in hell but happens a lot in heaven

seeing right look at line 46 right 46 to 48 those spirits sang with one voice okay so this is a pretty strict economy. Right? The souls in hell were passive, indifferent, they just accept their fate. Whereas here,

these souls are curious, they want to learn. So, so what is this really saying about who's in hell and who's in proletary? Who goes to hell? Who goes to purgatory?

I guess? Hell is a place of inactivity or being very passive and no curiosity, no consciousness. no wanting to learn or improve, no agency. And then progatory is like, we're still a little bit, but we're still happy. We still want to try to get better.

We're just people at fault, but we are still trying. Exactly. Yes. Just similar to that, that they have an optimistic mindset, a growth mindset. It's attitude, right? It's they choose. It's like, do you guys know Carol Dwight, right? Carol, Dwight,

you probably know her. But, you know, she's a step for psychologist. And she says that in life, there are those who succeed and those who fail. And the main difference is in attitude, right?

Those who succeed have a growth mindset, which is say they're always looking to get better. They accept adversity, they accept failure as opportunities to improve themselves. Whereas people fix mindset

don't believe they can improve and they accept things as they are they're afraid of failure okay and that's the difference between uh hell and proletory okay so this is radical because kato shows us is not necessarily what you do that condemns you to hell or proletory it's what your attitude is what you believe what you choose to do that's important okay your mindset that's important okay doesn't make make sense? All right, let's keep on reading. Line 79, oh shades, in all except appearance empty, three times I clasped my hands behind him and often brought them back against my chest.

Dismay, I think, was painted on my faith at this, that shadow smiled as he withdrew, and I still seeking him again advanced. Gently, he said that I could now stand back, then I knew who he was, and I beseeched him to remain a while and talk with me. He answered, as I loved you, when I was within my mortal flesh, so freed, I love you. Therefore, I stay. But you, why do you journey? My own Casilla, to return again to where I am,

I journey thus. But why, I said, were you deprived of so much time? And he, no injury is done to me. If he who takes up whom and when, he pleases has kept me from this crossing many times, for his own will derives from a just will, and yet for three months now he has accepted, most tranquilly all those who would embark.

Therefore, I, who had turned then to the shore, at which the tiber's water makes the salt, was gathered in by his benevolence. Straight to that river mouth, he set his wings, that always is the place of gathering for those who do not sink to Akron. And I,

if there's no new law that denies you memory or practice of the songs of love that yews to quiet all my longings, then may it please you with those songs to solace my soul somewhat, for having journeyed here together with my body it is weary love that discourses to me in my mind he then began to sing and sang so sweetly that i still hear that sweeten sound in me my master i and all that company around the singer seemed so satisfied as if no other thing might touch our minds we all were motionless and fixed upon the notes when all at once the grave old man cried out what have we hear you laggard spirits what negligence what lingering is this. Quick to the mountain to cast off the slough that will not let you see God show himself.

Okay, so Dante sees an old friend from Florence. This friend has died, and they're very happy to see each other, okay? This is a contrast between when Virgil and Keel saw each other, okay? They reminisce, they talk about their past, and then Keel sees him and says, like, get out of here. Stop lingering, right? Move on. So there's a contrast here. And again, Thani does this a lot. Keep on going. Line 124,

even as stubs assembled where they feed, quietly gathering their grain or weeds, forgetful of their customary struts, well, if something appears that makes them fear immediately leave their food behind because they're assailed by greater care. So did I see that new come company, they left the song behind,

turned toward the slope like those who, go and yet do not know where, and we were no less hasty in departure. Let's continue. Count O'3. But while their sudden flight was scattering those souls across the plan toward the mountain when we're wracked by rightful punishments, I drew in closer to my true companion, for how could I have run ahead without him? Who could have helped me as I climbed the mountain?

He seemed like one who stung by self-reproof, O pure and noble conscience, you in whom each petty fault becomes a harsh rebuke. and when his feet had left off hurrying, for haste and eyes all acts their dignity, my mind, which was before to focus, through more curious and widened his attention. I set my vision toward the slope that rises most steeply, up to heaven from the sea. Behind my back the sun was flaming red, but there ahead of me its light was shattered because its rays were resting on my body. And when I saw the ground was dark in front of me and me alone, afraid that I had been abandoned, I turned to my side, and my only comfort as he turned around began.

Why must you still mistrust? Don't you believe that I am with and guide you? The body from within which I cast shadows is buried where it now is even taken from Brindisi. It now belongs to Naples. Thus, if no shadow falls in front of me, do not be more amazed than when you see. The heavens not impede each other's rays. the power has to expose such bodiless bodies to suffer torment. Heed and cold, how this is done, he would not have us know.

Foolish is he who hopes our intellect can reach the end of that unending road. Only one substance and three persons follows. Confine yourself, oh humans, to the queer, had you been able to see all, there would have been no need for Mary to give birth. Okay, stop. Okay, all right. So this is actually a very important part of this. poem so I want to analyze it in depth okay first of all explaining me what the

relationship now is between Virgil and Dante how would you describe the relationship yes like Dante's a little bit like a teenager so Virgil's has given birth to him and now he's looking at he still really trusts him and likes him but he sees that he doesn't have a shadow and that's one of the ways that you know you can climb the mountain because you're walking towards your shadow trying to deal with your sin and so he's thinking how much of a guide is he really going to be if he's clearly not from here and he's not an expert of this place um okay um that's one way interpreted but i i i kind of disagree with that okay i i i like um

how does donnie feel about virgil when so so again the idea is that don't has a body so he's able to see his own shadow virginal doesn't have a body And you can't see a shadow. This was not a problem in hell because there are no shadows in hell. This is a problem here in purgatory, right? Why is Dante upset about not seeing Virgil shadow? Yes? Dante may be upset that he can feel that he's getting close to overtaking Virgil,

outcoring him. No, no. Yes? Dante's very insecure. And he felt that he's abandoned by version? I think so. I think it's not, I think it's insecurity, right? It's like, like he needs Virgil constantly beside him.

He can't see the shadow. He's nervous. Like, where's Virgil? And Virgil, like, don't worry. I'm still with you. I'm going to guide you. Relax, man. Okay?

That's exactly what they're saying here. Okay? Does that make sense? So it shows you how dependent Dantantanet has become on Virgil. It is Danty, it is Virgil who lifted Dane out of hell, and now Darnie is now dependent on Virgil to lift him up to purgatory. Okay? And again, this is a pilgrimage. So, this is a journey where Darnie has to learn to become independent.

Okay. Now, a really important Tursit, okay? I want you to focus on this Tursit is, no, 34 to 34 to 13. I want to focus on this. It's like really important. Foolish he hopes our intellect can reach the end of that unending road. Only one substance in three persons follows. What is this referring to? Trinity, but what is this one substance?

The monad. Excuse me? The monad? No, the substance. What's the substance? Love, right? Who said the Trinity is three persons and they all have the same substance. Who said that?

Dante, when Peter was asking him, what is faith? Do you believe in the Holy Trinity? I do. I believe that the Trinity exists. They all come from the same essence, which is love. Okay? So this is what Dante will say in heaven. Confine yourselves, all humans, to acqua,

have not been able to see all. would be have been no need for Mary to give birth okay happen no need for Mary to give birth what what Virgil is saying is um what no need for Mary to give birth what should have what could he say what could he say instead of this or you know something much more appropriate to Christian theology If we knew better, then there would be no need for what to happen? For Jesus to come, right? Why is it there will be no need for Mary to give birth?

Who says this? Who says this? Dante. Dante as well. Okay? Well, actually, not Donnie. Bernard says this in paradise, right? It is Mary giving birth, that is the true miracle, not Jesus sacrificing himself.

This is all coming from the mouth of Virgil. Do you understand? And these ideas will we present to us in paradise. What's the paradox here? Yes? Where did he get to know these if what he said in paradise was something that he's supposed to learn from his journey? Yeah. Like this is really confusing for us because we just said Virgil is in limbo and Virgil could possibly be the master of hell.

This is our speculation. We don't have ever. evidence, this is the case? How is it supposed to have been to paradise? How is he able to know this stuff? Right? We'll discover this stuff in paradise, but we are in purgatory right now and Virgil has spent all eternity in limbo. Where is he getting the stuff from? This is these are things that Donnie will discover once in heaven But already Virgil understands this stuff. How can we explain this paradox? Yeah, I just guess maybe Jesus is two side.

One side is Jesus, another side is Lucifer. How about? Is it possible? Okay, so you're saying that Virgil is both Lucifer and Jesus. That's interesting, yes?

Maybe when he's saying foolish as he, he's talking about himself in the past tense. That when he got brought out of Inferno, if he was there, that process gave him the knowledge that ascension requires faith in true love.

Um, but he didn't need to be told that he just, because, but no, so I'm trying to figure out how he knows this stuff, right? I'm trying to figure out how he knows two things that are revealed to us in heaven. The first is that the Holy Trinity is has one essence, which is love. So God is love basically. Right. So second thing is like he knows that Mary is the one who redeemed us, not Jesus. He knows this. So I'm saying how, how.

How could he know this? He was there? He went there. He went there. He went there. He went there. And how did he end up in limbo? Like you said, he chose us not to be there.

He was like, oh, this place is great, but I have to be like a servant to God and I want to do that. So I'm just coming back. You can have gone there because he's explicit, right? You cannot leave hell unless, you can't go to heaven unless you're a Christian. Right? Uh, yes? Um, did Beatrice tell him when she has done? Tell him when she assigned him to task?

Why would Beatrice tell him this stuff? Fine. Like, yes? Dante guesses it and ascribes it to Virgil? No, no, no. Virgil's a teacher. Virgil's a father. Dante is a student and a son, right? So, Dante would never be as presumptuous as to teach this to Virgil. And Donnie does not know this yet, right?

He only knows this when he goes up to heaven. So how can Virgil know this? Well, technically Lucifer was really close to God. Right. Keep on going. Right. And therefore, he understands the essence, the substance, the three persons. And therefore, I don't know, a fragment of Lucifer is with Virgil. Okay.

That's a good start, okay? That's very close. Keep on going. Keep going on that logic. Yes? For the devil to distort the truth means that he knows the truth very well in its fabrics. To be able to tear apart, deconstruct it, cancel it.

Yes. So then he probably revealed that to Virgil. Like, this is the essence, but we were like, try to divert. No, no, no, no, no. Okay. The first part was right. The second part is like, you're assuming Lucifer talked to Virgil, right?

True, but he can't talk. But loser can't talk. So how does Virgil know this? Yes? It's the opposite of what happens, of what he sees of Lucifer and hell. So it's like three sinners are digested into one substance, which is evil, and that the opposite, it's the opposite of the immaculate conception. Okay. So that's an interesting theory, okay?

And that explains the Trinity. It doesn't explain Mary. Okay. Who is Virgil? What does he do? He's a poet. And who are poets? They're channeling God, right? You understand?

This is how Dante is able to write this. He's channeling God. He actually doesn't even, Dante doesn't even know what he's writing, okay? We're probably, we're probably better at analyzing this portrait than Dante. I mean, like, I'm not exaggerating. Donne is just like,

seeing the truth of the universe. He doesn't really know what he's singing. And that's what a poet is. A poet is a vessel for the divine fire. Okay? So, if Virgil knows this truth, but he wrote the Indianian, what is it saying about Virgil?

To me? That Virgil, Virgil, is more or less a Lucifer figure. But why is he Lucifer? Because he knows the truth, truth to know to tell the truth no no no yes well i mean in a way he was forced by augustus to like speak poetry but like um use it for a empire way so so so in god's eyes what did you do but he you betrayed god you betrayed god you understand the great betrayer is virgil not lucifer okay just think about this does that make sense guys

guys because God gave you the greatest gift possible which is poetry which is divine true and you distorted it in order to serve empire that's a great betrayal right who's lucifer is someone who betrayed God in order to seek power yes then why is Virgil that's a really good question yes is it because he left an Easter egg that when Aeneas is about to kill Ternus, he debates it a lot, and then he sees Pallas's sword belt on Ternus, and that's what makes him finally kill him, but that's, we don't know whether that's fully true or not, but at least it's maybe Virgil saying that there was another thing which made me make Aeneas kill Ternus in the Aeneid, and it wasn't just the whole message, that it

seemed kind of like a red herring that it was Pallas's sword belt that made him kill Ternus, when it was his divine destiny to do so anyway. That's a good point, okay? So, like, try to visualize what's happening, okay? God give Virgil the divine fire, okay? Just as he gave Donny the divine fire. Just as he gave Shakespeare to do that fire, okay? This is all divine fire.

This is not yours. This is gods, okay? And then Augustus says, okay, you know what? Give me that divine fire and we'll craft a weapon together. Well, if you do that, if you put the divine light into the weapon, someone's going to leak out. Does it make sense? And that's why there's so many inconsistencies in the Indian ad, including the one of where India shows mercy or what's so mercy to turn is, and then in the end decides to come anywhere.

So there are a lot of inconsistencies in the Indian ad because you're trying to weaponize the vign fire. And the vign fire does not want to be weaponized, okay? It's meant to enlighten the world. It's not meant to be directed as a weapon of empire. all right but do you guys understand this

this idea that Virgil is a great betrayer because God gave him divine fire and rather than in lighten the world like what Donny is doing with divine comedy he chooses to corrupt it in a way that serves

empire for his own personal benefit and this is a great betrayal of humanity right Imagine if Jesus came and he's like, screw this mission, I'm going to side it with the Romans. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Because, like, I don't be crucified. And the Romans are going to give me a $200. Screw this mission. Right? Isn't that a great betrayal of God? It's also a betrayal of humanity, yes. Yeah, and that's exactly what the Jews hated Jesus for, because they really wanted a real Messiah,

who was a militant leader, just like Julius Caesar. They really wanted Jesus to some. not side with the Romans or fight against the Romans. That's why they denied him the title of Messiah. That's right. Exactly. Because Jesus was a prophet of peace and they wanted a prophet of war. Yes.

Does that make sense? So again, we're speculating. But again, it's a huge problem for us how these two ideas where God is love and Mary is what redeemed us, these are the two main ideas of paradise. How are they appearing in the mouth of Virgo? Right? And the answer is, well, because he had access to divine fire, but he chose to corrupt it. But it doesn't answer the question is like, how did Virgil happen limbo?

As a poet, it's where he can be the most creative because heaven is kind of a place you can't touch or manipulate. Whereas in hell, he can create his own story and also put who he wants in it. Yes. And as we see, Howe is basically created by Virgil and he knows the place because he created it. Exactly. Okay. So one explanation is that Virgil created hell and Dona created heaven. Okay. So ultimately, what's happening is a war between heaven and hell. The hell conceptualized by Virgil and a heaven conceptualized by Dante.

That is one possibility. Yes. Uh, yes? Yeah, so that's like a theory I had about hell is that Dante is basically entering, um, Virgil's mind. But he does enter Virgil's mind. How? How? Oh, yeah, that's, that's the point. I don't understand. Okay, but how does he enter Virgil's mind? By going into hell? No, no, no. How does he enter Virgil's mind? In fact, he becomes Virgil's mind because what did he do? He read the Innihan.

He read the Indian ad, right? That's what the Indian ad is. It's a mind of Virgil. It is hell. You understand? It's a blueprint for hell. Imagine a world in which love is a disease, right? And you can just kill any woman that you.

you want. Imagine a world about mercy, what forgiveness, right? Your enemy, you must kill. You can ever show mercy to your enemy. That is hell. No forgiveness, no mercy, no love. Just peer obedience. That's what hell is. Okay? So the Eniad is the expression of hell, and the divine comity is the expression of heaven. But is it possible to read the divine without reading the Inead. Is it possible? It's not possible because you don't understand what's going on, okay? You understand?

There are lots of characters here, and only by reading the Inniad, can you truly appreciate divine comedy? So heaven and hell need each other. They're at war of each other, but they also need each other, the complementary of each other. Okay, so that's the other idea here, okay? But that still doesn't answer the...

So one possibility is, okay, well, Virgil, create hell, created hell and donna created heaven okay but how can we explain another how can we further explain why Virgil is in limbo and not being punished for betraying God I'm not sure if we already answered this in the last question but could it just be that Dante feels that he couldn't be Dante without Virgil right so so he appreciates Virgil's Okay, so that's all possibility, right? Dante knows he cannot be done about Virgil because, and he says this, like he grew up being nourished and nourished by the Inniad, right?

But why would that lead to Virgil in limbo? Okay, yes? Virgil is still using imagination, truth, beauty, and poetry. So it's still God's gift. So because he's using that, he's not going to be. be punished still a creator no no no that's even worse right that that's even worse i mean if you don't know anything and you you behave like and you behave like virgil does that's one thing but like to know that you're behaving the wrong way and you still choose to do it that's that's you know that's

that's even worse okay all right so let's think about this in the universe of dante um we should Virgil B. In the inferno. Which part of the infernal? The very bottom in one of the mounts of Satan. Yeah, right. Right? He's the great betrayer.

Much worse than Satan. He is a great betrayer. And who's there instead? Cassius. And Buddhists, right? So what did even happen? Again, we're only speculating. Okay, we want to use your imagination.

We're trying to figure out how this system works, right? Because in Dante's framework, Virgil, the place where he belongs, is in the mouth of Lucifer, being chewed to death, because his betrayal is the same as Lucifer's betrayal. Lucifer betrayed God and Virgil betrayed humanity, right? It's the Inniat that has condemned Europe to a thousand years of hell, just endless war, endless suffering. No mercy, no love. Yes?

Divine Comedy Inferno is not Dante's framework, but Virgil's framework. Right, right, right, right. So that's one possibility, but I'm saying like, let's consider another possibility, right? Let's just say that Virgil is master of hell. He can construct hell in any way he wants. And there's something that anyone can do about it, even God. What's another possibility? Okay?

And the other possibility is, okay, let's go with Donnie's framework. And in Donnie's framework, Virgil is in the bottom of hell being chewed and tortured by Lucifer. How would he have gone out of that situation? Yes? Only through Dante himself, like Dante himself puts Virgil into limbo because he loves him so much, maybe, or he forgives him. Okay.

Right. Yes? He got temporarily moved out by Beatrice and the other ladies from heaven just for this purpose, but he really doesn't want Dante to know that's the truth. Yeah, that's a possibility. Do you guys understand that? Do you understand that?

Because Beatrice has a problem, right? Beatrice is like, Dante is lost in the woods. Someone has to help him. And who's the only guide possible? Virgil. Problem is in hell being true and alive because of his betrayal of humanity. But we're, but in the world, okay?

Who does Dante admire the most? Who could guide Dante out of hell? Only Virgil, right? Because only Virgil knows hell that. much because he's at the very bottom. So he understands the very essence of hell. So they might have made a deal, right? Where, and this is all speculation, okay?

But you can see how this might work, where Beatrice says to Virgil, okay, we'll give you a special reprieve, you help Dante, and then Dante, and then we'll, you know, move your limbo, and then we'll put in, put his and castas in your place. It doesn't make sense? metaphorically it makes sense because Dante probably wouldn't have written the comedy without Virgil's influence Exactly exactly right so tomorrow We talked to David Bromwich and David Bromwich had mentor was Harold Bloom right and Harold Bloom

One of wrote a very famous book called Anxiety of Influence And the very idea of anxiety of influence is a very idea of anxiety of influence is a How does creation happen? How is it possible for people like Milton and Keats and Shakespeare to create great art work? Create great artwork. And the answer is anxiety of influence where as a young poet, you are so burdened by a higher poet, right?

So Milton was burdened by Shakespeare. And you think that, oh, it's impossible for me to surpass him, and you try your very best to imitate him. You try your very best to become him. But in this process of trying to become him, you recognize the problems in this, and then you develop your own creativity. Does that make sense? You can't do it in a vacuum. You can't do it in a blank slate.

You have to fully embrace someone and then defeat that person, right? It is very similar to the father-son dynamic, right? Where you first become a father, then you kill the father, then you kill the father, okay? Don't kill your father. But like, you know, you leave your father behind. This is what's happening right now, literally, between Virgil and Dante, okay? Donny has become Virgil's son, and he's trying to become Virgil, but in the process, he will discover the limitations of Virgil and become his own poet.

Okay, does that make sense? And it's very similar to the way I teach, where, you know, in the first few days, I was trying to give you a lot of ideas, but over time, as you have this framework that I've given you, this framework allows you to better analyze the divine comedy. And over time, if you keep on doing this, you'll discover, I can build my own framework. I don't need this framework anymore, but you first need that framework, okay? Does that make sense? All right?

Does that answer your question? Okay? And again, we're only speculating, okay? We're only using our imagination. But you can see how this does explain a lot about what's going on, right? And again, what's really confusing right now is these two great truths of Paradise. Virgil already knows. And also shows you the consistency, the totality of Divine Comedy, right?

Where all three, infernal, purgatory, and paradise, all line up perfectly. And I don't know how you could do that as human being. And this is an age before computers. This is the age even before, like, pen and paper, right? But he's able to do this in his mind. And if you're like, well, it's all him being deliberate and being very careful, well, that doesn't really get you anywhere. But if you're like, okay, all he's doing is channeling the line fire. Well, that explains a lot more.

Okay? Does that make sense, guys? All right. Let's get my reading. Line 40, you saw the fruitless longing of those men who would, if reason, could have been content those who's desire. eternally lament. I speak of Aristotle and of Plato and many others here he bent his head and said no more, remaining with his sorrow. By this time we had reached the mountain's base discovering a wall of rock so sheer that even agile legs are useless there. The loneliest, most

jagged promontory that lies between Turbia and Larichy, compared with it, provide stairs wide and easy. Now who knows where along this mountainside, my master halting asked, one finds arise where even he who has no wings can climb. Okay, stop. Okay, all right. So he says, you saw the fullest longing of those men who would, if reason, could, have been content

those who desire eternally lamats. I speak of Aristotle and Plato and many others. What does he mean by this? What does he mean by this? Yes. Because they didn't know about the Trinity and those special truths of heaven, even though they had great souls and pure souls,

and pure souls, they were just eternally desiring to understand the Monat but hadn't been given the special, the two special truths, well, the Immaculate Conception and Trinity. So even though they probably should have made it, they're the ones the most upset that they'd have. Yeah, that's close, okay? But I would phrase it differently. Does anyone else want to try? Yeah, you can try again. Just that they still have a distance between them and the... world of the forms what if you think that's where god resides sure sure we're trying to figure out what causes this distance okay what causes this separation they didn't they didn't they didn't

think they needed faith it's faith right because explain to me because only with faith do understand that it's mere who redeemed us not jesus it's only with faith that you understand that god is love okay you can't prove it you can't reason it out Plato and aristotle their problem was that they wanted to reason out you can't do that you have to have faith and from this faith comes your which allows you to access the truth. You understand the logic. And again, it's amazing because this is what Donning will tell us, what will reveal to us in paradise.

You need to live a life of faith, hope, and love. And Virgil is already saying this. So Virgil knows this, but he refuses to act it out, okay? He refuses to align will with action. Okay. All right, let's keep on reading. While he, his eyes upon the ground, consult his mind, considering what road to take, and I looked up around the wall of rock,

along the left a band of souls appeared to me to be approaching us, but so unhurriedly their movements did not show. Lift up your eyes, I told my master, here are those who can advise us how to go if you can find no counsel in yourself. At this, he looked at them and less distressed replied, Let us go there. Their steps are slow, and you, my gentle son, hold fast to hope. The distance from that company to us, I mean when we had gone the thousand paces was still as far as the fine hurlers' toss. When they all huddled toward the hard rock wall, and once they crowded there, refused to budge, even as men, when apprehensive halt.

O chosen souls, you have ended well, Virgil began. By virtue of that peace, which I believe awaits you all, please tell us where the slope inclines and can be climbed, for he who best discerns the worth of time is most distress whenever time is lost. Even as sheep that move first one, then two, then three out of the fold, the others also stand, eyes and muzzles lowered, timidly. And what the first sheep does, the others do, and if it halts, they huddle close behind, simple and quiet and not knowing why.

So then, I saw those spirits in the front of that flock flavored by good fortune move. Their looks were modest, seemly, slow, their walk. As soon as these so saw, upon my right, along the ground, a gap in the sun's light, where shadows stretched from me to the rock wall, they stopped, and then drew back somewhat, and all who came behind them, though they did not know why those ahead had halted, also slowed. Without your asking, I shall tell you plainly that you're looking at a human body. That's why the sunlight on the ground is broken. Don't be astonished. Rush assured that he would not attempt to cross his wall without a force that have incentive and support. These were my master's words.

That Worthy band replied, Come back and move in our direction and gestured with backhanded motions right. And one of them began, whoever you may be as you move forward, turn and see, consider if beyond you've ever seen me. I turned to look at him attentively. He was fair-haired and handsome and his aspect was noble, but one eyebrow had been cleft by a swordstroke. When I had humbly noted that I had never seen him, he said, look now, showing me a wound high on his chest. Then as he smiled, he told me, I'm Manfred,

the grandson of the Empress Constance. Thus, I pray that when you reach the world again, you may go to my lovely daughter, Mother kings of Sicily and Aragon. Tell her the truth, lest she's heard, something other. After my body had been shattered by two fatal blows and tears, I then consigned myself to him who willingly forgives. My sins were ghastly, but the infinite goodness has armed so wide that it accepts whoever would return, imploring it. As of Kisenza's bastard,

who was sent to hunt me down, alive or dead by Clement, had understood this facet of God's mercy, my body's bones would still be there beneath the custody of the great heap of stones near Benevento at the bridge head. Now rain baths my bones, the wind has driven them beyond the kingdom near the Verdi's banks, where he transported them with tapers bent. Despite the church's curse,

there's no one so lost that the eternal love cannot return, as long as hope shows something green. But it is true that anyone who dies in contumacy of the Holy Church, though he repented at the end, must wait along this shore for 30 times to span

he spent in his presumptuousness, unless that edict is abridged through fitting prayers. Now see of you by making known to my kind Constance where you saw my soul and wide delays to crude for me can make me happy. Those here, through those beyond, advance more quickly. Okay. So they are moving towards purgatory. They are anti-procatory, right? So they're not yet enter the gates of procuratory, and they're meeting different souls.

and one of them is Manfred. Now Manfred is a royal. He is a king. He's a grandson of the emperor's Constance. And he died in battle. And he was excommunicated by the church. Why is this a paradox? He was excommunicated by the church.

Why is this a paradox? He's here. Yeah. It's like go straight to hell card, right? If you excommunicated, it means that you have been banished from the community of Christians. Doesn't matter if you're baptized. Doesn't matter what you believe.

Doesn't matter what you do. You have now been banished from the community of Christianity. And therefore, you must now burn in hell. And what does Manfred say? How can we understand this? Yes. He said as I was dying basically in tears,

I suddenly was like, God, please forgive me. And then I know my sins were terrible, but God spread his arms for me to return. Yeah. So God is all forgiving, okay? You have a direct connection to God. And, okay, if you get exhumated by the church, that's bad. But that just means you spend more time in procuratory, okay?

Right? So again, this is revolutionary for this time in history, where the excommunication doesn't really matter that much, okay? What matters is your faith in God? How is it possible to reduce your time in procuratory? Do you guys know? Yes? Someone who's alive prays for you.

Exactly. Okay. Right? This goes back to the idea in heaven where if it even dies, but the parents are very virtuous and pray for the infant, the infant is given access to heaven. Yes? I think it also matters whether the prayer is like a good prayer

or just like an offhanded prayer. I think there's like a difference Yeah, no, no commitment, right? You know, if someone's praying for you eight hours a day and also the number of people also matters as well. Like if entire community is praying for you and that will reduce your time in progatory, okay?

Right. Okay, all right, so let's keep on going. Canto 4. When any of our faculties retains a strong impression of delight or pain, the soul will wholly concentrate on that. Neglecting any other power has and this refutes the error that maintains that one above the other, several souls can flame in us. And thus, when something seen or heard secures the soul in stringent grip, time moves, and yet we do not notice it. The power that perceives the course of time is not the power that captures all the mind.

The former has no force, the latter binds, and I confirmed this by experience, hearing that spirit and my wonderment, for though the sun had fully climbed 50 degrees, I had not noticed it. And when we came to the point at which in unison those souls cried out to us here's what you want okay so at this this answers your question of time right you're a question about time what does dante say right so but what does he mean right we had a question about time right so what does don't say about time yes the sun has climbed 50 degrees yeah and that's physical time but what could could you um yeah what's he saying here? Well, verse 10, the power that perceives the course of time is not the power that captures all the mind. The former has no force, the latter binds. So, it's not your perception

is your imagination. It's not the perception that matters. What matters? The perception of time doesn't matter. What matters? The emotions, right? So the power that perceives the course of time is that the power that captures all the mind, okay? The power that perceives the course of time has no force. The power that captures all the mind, which is the emotions, that binds. All right? So what matters is the emotional time as opposed to the physical time.

Okay, keep on going? Line 13, and I confirmed this by experience, hearing that spirit in my wonderment, for though the sun had fully climbed 50 degrees, I had not noticed it. When we came to the point at which in unisoned those soul cried out to us, here's what you want. And then verse 19,

The farmer, when the grape is darkening, will often stuff a wider opening with just a little forkful of his thorns. Then was the gap through which my guide and I was followed after Climbed We Two alone after the company of souls had gone. Why does he notice the passing of time? Why does he notice the passing of time? Yes? The changing of the sun's degrees. Well, that would tell him the time, but he doesn't even notice that. I'm saying why doesn't he notice the sun, the passing of time?

And like, this is just, like, why don't you notice time? Was your perceiving change? Yes? What would you not notice time? Not notice time. Yeah, what would you not notice time? If nothing changes? You know what I'm saying?

Like, when do you not notice time? Yes? You're sleeping. That you lost time. Yeah, when you're happy, okay? Yeah. When you're happy. And why is not any very happy?

When you're starting happy? What? He's on his way to Beatrice? No, there's a better reason. He hasn't mentioned Beatrice yet. He's out of hell, right? Oh. Okay?

He was in hell, and now he's finally out of hell. There's son, there's people who are happy. He's just really happy right now. Okay? All right. Let's keep on going. First 25. Sen Leo can be climbed.

One can descend to Noli and ascend Kakumee and Bisvantova with feet alone. but here I had to fly. I mean with rapid wings and pinions of immense desire behind the guide who gave me hope and with my light. We made our upward way through rifted rock along each side the edges pressed on us, the ground beneath required feet and hands. When we had reached the upper rim of that steep bank emerging on the open slope, I said, My master, what way shall we take? And he to me, don't squander any steps. Keep climbing up the mountain after me until we find some expert company. The summit was so high. My sight fell short. The slope was far more steep than the line drawn from middle, quadrant to the center point. I was exhausted when I made this plea. Oh, gentle father, turn around and see I will not left alone. I will be left alone unless you halt. My son, he said,

draw yourself up to there while pointing to a somewhat higher terrace, which circles all the slope along that side. His words incited me. My body tried on hands and knees I scrambled after him until the terrace lay beneath my feet. There we sat down together, phasing east in the direction from which we had come. With joy to look back at a path we've climbed. My eyes were first set on the shores below,

and then I raised them toward the sun. I was amazed to find it fall upon our left. And when the poets saw that I was struck with wonder as I washed the chariot of light passing between the north and us, he said to me, suppose Castor and Polix were in conjunction with that mirror there,

which shakes the light and guide it north and south, then you would see the reddish zodiac still closer to the bears as it revolves, unless it has abandoned its own track. If you would realize how that should be, then concentrate. Imagining this mountain so placed upon this earth that both Mount Zion and it, although in different hemispheres, share one horizon. Therefore, you can see putting your mind to it attentively... Where is Mount Zion? You guys know? Where's Mount Zion? Mount Zion? Come on guys.

Israel. Egypt. Jerusalem, right? Zionist? Come on, man. Zionist, right? Mount Zion. So what he's saying is that

Purgatory and Jerusalem are opposite of each other. It doesn't make sense? Okay. So, yeah. What is the relationship between Don and Virgil. How would you describe the relationship? Suzie?

No. Yes? Well, still a father-son relationship. Yes, can you explain why? Well, like further up, he said, Virgil said son to Dante and Dante said father to Virgil. Okay. So, and he, Dante still trusts Virgil that he knows the way up. So let's imagine you're a father, okay?

You take your son, who's like 10, on a hike to a mountain, right? What's your son doing all the time? Are we there yet? Yeah, are we there yet? Okay. And what's Donnie doing? Like, are we there yet? Okay.

And the father's like, oh, like, you know, just focus on the mountaintop. Okay? So it's very much a father-son relationship. And it's almost like Dande has regrets, right? Because he's acting a lot more immaturely than before, right? before it was one of respect, one of all at Virgil. Now it's just like, are we there yet, man? This is so exhausting.

And Virgil is like, come on, man, move it. Okay? All right, let's keep on going. Line 71, line 71, therefore you can see putting your mind to it attentively how that same path, which feet then drove so poorly, must pass this mountain on the north, whereas it skirts Mount Zion on the southern side. I said, my master, surely I have never, since my intelligence seemed lacking, seen as clearly as I now can comprehend,

that the mid-circle of the heaven's motion, one of the sciences call it equator, which always lies between the sun and winter, as you explained, lies as far north of here, as it lies southward of the site from which the Hebrews, looking toward the tropics, saw it. But if it pleased you, I should willingly learn just how far it is we still must journey, the slope climbs higher than my eyes can follow. And he to me, this mountains of such sort that climbing it is hardest at the start, but as we rise, the slope grows less unkind. Therefore, when this slope seems to you so gentle, then climbing farther up will be as restful as traveling downstream by boat. You'll be where this pathway ends, and there you can expect to put your weariness to rest. I say no more, and this I know is true.

Okay, so again, Donis is bitching throughout this, right? He's like, are we there yet? I'm so exhausted. Can we just rest? and then Virgil's like Come on, we're almost there Why? And I don't actually know the answer this question. Why is Virgil

And Donnie, why are they spending so much time on trying to geolocate where they are? Right? Like, they're very explicit about where they are. Like, okay, we are the opposite end of Jerusalem, the stars are like this. Why would Bonnie spend so much time trying to

geolocate and I don't actually know the answer yes to like be more accurate while he's writing the poem because he's going to like teach all of these two people yes you could know where heaven

touches the earth i.e. the peak of the mountain would be the closest place on earth to heaven yeah I understand that but like proletory is made up right so I'm trying to figure out why he's trying to be so exact and detailed about where Mount Purgatory is, yes?

Well, you're hiking, right? So sort of memorize all the signs and where things are so that you don't get lost. Okay, I understand that. Yes? Is it just a metaphor for Purgatory? Because purgatory is quite a meticulous place where you have to clean yourselves. Right, right, right. But I'm just trying to figure this out, okay?

I'm trying to figure out why he's spending so much time being so exact and detailed about where Mount Pocotori is, what it looks like, where it is in relation to other places. Why would he, again, I don't actually know the answer. I'm just asking you this question. Yes? Maybe Dantin just distrust, this trust, this trust, Virgil. Say maybe he's trying to trade on him or? Well, it's Virgil who's doing on talking, yes? maybe Virgil's trying to remember it for later when his task with Dante is done

he gets shoved back to Limbo slash hell and he's trying just to remember for himself That's a very optimistic reading of Virgo actually Yes The way to measure things So because it's about progress You can only progress in what you measure So they're looking at where they are

To start with and then progress with it Yeah okay right Good right So maybe a possibility is like They're trying to give people a sense of time, so their progress can be tracked. Okay, that's one really strong possibility, yes. And I don't really answer. I'm just like, what are possibilities here?

Just use your imagination. Anyone else? Yes? Well, maybe just for the reader so you can imagine it as detailed as possible. And why would that be important? I find this to be a treasure map for imagination. Right. Because back to your point.

about Dante starting, ushering in Renaissance, if you look at Renaissance paintings, there are lots of perspectives. And it's almost like if you want to imagine to the fullest, you need to give details, a lot of details. Yes. Yes. And this is like a treasure map to, hey, this is how you do it. Yes. And I guess that's why I may be a cultist and, you know, later people would find this enlightening because literally this is a map to the ultimate treasures. Yes. Yes. Okay. Like a hiker, you probably know the Japanese like Kumano Kodo, which is Xion Ye Gua, which is one of the pilgrimage roads by UNESCO saying that it's a pilgrimage.

So you go through the mountains to, you know, purify yourself and all that. The other one is the one, the route of San Diego, the compostela, which is on another trip to, to pilgrimage through the mountains and stuff. And so maybe in his idea that this idea of purgatory, purging yourself as you hike or as you go on a journey, it's self-physically, metaphorically, it's a way to purify yourself. Just like Muslims also go to, you know, the same. Okay. So I think that Carol's point is very interesting.

So let's drop some paintings, okay? Let's look at medieval European art. Okay, and then we're going to contrast it with Renaissance art and see if we can spot the difference. It's actually pretty blatant, but we'll do it. Okay, medieval art, we'll look at some images, okay? Okay, so this is medieval art, guys, okay? All right? Do you guys see that?

Just put it in your mind. Now we're going to do Renaissance art. And again, the difference is pretty stark. What's the difference, guys? Yes, go ahead. Yes, so space and time really matter here, yes? Yeah, from two-dimensional to three-dimensional. Yes, right, it's pretty obvious, right?

They put a lot of focus on space and time, on deaf perception, right? Before it was 2D, now it's 3D. Anyone else? It's a demonstration of imaginative power to convey the force of deviant. divine imaginative power, you do have to have, you know, very, very, you know, deep knowledge about geography, but also imagination. Yes. So let's do mathematics of Renaissance art. Let's see what happens if we do that. Mathematics of Renaissance art. Yeah. So they're using a lot of mathematics with Renaissance art, right?

maybe the Last Supper Okay, this is Divine Comedy Okay Well, I mean, this is Yeah Yeah Yeah Okay, but you guys see this, okay?

There's a lot more mathematics In Renaissance art than there is in medieval art In fact, there's really no mathematics, medieval art But if you look at When you look at Renaissance art Does geometry really matters? The symmetry really matters Death perception really matters, okay?

And this started because of Dante. Dante is really concerned about mathematics. He's really trying to, he's really concerned about trying to create as much detail as possible in his poetry. So it excites the imagination. Okay? And it makes this, yes? And also pretty much every Renaissance painting is like a historical moment in time. And the medieval paintings were just like bishops and like just portraits.

But this is like really, yeah, this really ignites the imagination. Like you can like imagine yourself sitting at the table. Right. And why would it exact the imagination as opposed to medieval art? Yes? Because you're grounding it in something more naturalistic. And you're able to see yourself more. And I think the reason he does it in purgatory is because you can kind of go on purgatory a little bit while you're alive in real life.

Exactly. You understand. Okay. Right. So you can actually imagine yourself taking a hike and look at the stars. And then that draws you back to the Divine Comedy. And when you read Divine Comedy, you can also, as you read this, imagine yourself with Virgil and Dante climbing up Mount Portrait. That's a power of detail and precision.

Again, guys, it's really, it's obvious to us now, but this is rather, it's watching, it's literally watching a movie, yes? Well, I really feel like Purgatory is really similar to just Earth in general, you know. like we have a sun, we have, you know, it's really like, earthlike, as opposed to inferno. Right, and he's trying to make it as earthlike as possible, right, by geolocating it. It's like, this is actually a real place on earth, right? And so, again, we're not transitioning from the medieval period to the Renaissance period, and this is what sparks it because of its humanistic qualities, right? It's willingness to draw you into the story.

It's realism so that you feel that Mount Procratory is a real place. If it's a real place, then it gives you hope, right? Because before you believe that there was only hell and heaven. And now, like, no, there's a progatory place, and it's a transition into heaven. So even if you screwed up, as long as you're willing to repent, you will go to purgatory. And you'll be there for a million years. You'll be there thousands and thousands of years. Who knows?

But hey, if your family really loves you, you know, it won't be as bad. Okay? So it's almost incentivizing you to live life to the fullest, to live a life of love, to show kindness, generosity, and mercy to others, right? Okay? And again, this is opposite of the Ineat, right? Where again, you're not supposed to show mercy to your enemies. You're not supposed to, like, fall in love.

You're just supposed to, like, obey the gods. Does that make sense, guys? All right. All right, let's see what I'm going. 97. And when his words were done, another voice nearby was heard to say, perhaps you will have need to sit before you reach that point. Hearing that voice, both of us turned around,

and to the left we saw a massive boulder, which neither he nor I before had noticed. We made our way toward it and toward the people who lounged behind that boulder in the shade, as men beset by listlessness will rest. And one of them who seemed to me exhausted were sitting with his arms around his knees, between his knees he kept his head bent down.

Oh, my sweet lord, I said, look carefully at one who shows himself more languid than he would have been more laziness, his sister. Then that shade turned toward us attentively, lifting his eyes but just above his thigh and said, Climb, then, if you're so vigorous, then I knew who he was, and the distress that still was quickening my breath somewhat

did not prevent my going to him. And when I had reached him, scarcely lifting up his head, he said, and have you fathomed how the sun can drive his chariot on your left the slowness of his movements his brief words had stirred my lips a little toward a smile then i began from this time on belakwa i need not grieve for you but tell me why do you sit here do you expect a guide or have you fallen into your old ways and he o brother what's the use of climbing god's angel he who guards the gate would not let me pass through to meet my punishment outside that gate the skies must circle round as many times as they did when I lift, since I delayed good sides until the end. Unless before then, I am helped by prayer that rises from a heart that lives in grace. What use are other prayers ignored by heaven? And now the poet climbed ahead before me

and said, it's time, see, the meridian touched by the sun. Elsewhere along the ocean, night now has set its foot upon Morocco. Okay, all right. So we will conclude, uh, today. A reminder tomorrow morning, we start at 9 o'clock exactly, okay? Try to come at 8.50. We're a very special guest. We're a very honored

to have him, Professor David Bromwich, who is a student professor of English at Yale. His mentor was Harold Bloom, of course. I didn't mention that. And he will come and talk to us about Macbeth. He's joining us live from New Haven.

And then we will have a discussion about Shakespeare and daunting, how they're similar, how they're different. And it'll be a very interesting conversation. So, yeah, it'll go on for about an hour and then we'll continue reading purgatory. And we'll try to do about 10. Okay, we have like three days more. We have three days left and we'll try to do 10, 10, 10. Okay?

So please review what we've learned. Any questions about today before we, we end? Any questions, guys? Ask one question that we'll end, okay? Yes. Very general question, but do you think open and free imagination is compatible with organizing a society? Because it seems like once a society reaches a certain amount of people and a level of organization, then you need to force people into imagining that your system works.

That's a great question, okay? And quite honestly, if Dante were alive today, he could not possibly understand why we live the way we do. Right? We live in cities of 10 million people. Beijing is like, what, 25 million people? But like no one knows each other. And like you're just like a little cog in the machine. And like Donna would be like, what's the point of this existence?

Right. What are you guys trying to accomplish with this sort of existence? In fact then in Italy, whatever the issues were, at least people knew each other, okay? And at least people had roots. At least people knew why they were living. And happiness had a purpose, right? You wanted your community to thrive. And now, in our world, we're just focused all on just material acquisition.

And as you point out, that's a result of mass society. Once your society reaches a certain point, your society has to be organized a certain way. you lose your sense of community, you lose your sense of identity, you are just a empty soul, you're basically like, you're basically a slave, really, okay? I mean, like, I hate to say this, but like, are we not slaves? I mean, like, just the idea of, like, sending kids to school to learn and to read and write so that they can go to university, to get to use this degree so that they can go make use as money, right?

I mean, like, what exactly is the point, all right? So, as you point out, once society reaches a certain number, it could be a million, it could be two million, who knows, okay? But you're kind of stuck like this, and there's no way out of it because with this amount of people, you need bureaucracy and you need hierarchy and you need inequality in order to make the society function. There's really no way around it. But it's an interesting question, and it's something that I want to discuss at the end

of this class, right? And the question then is, if Dante were to come today, first of all, how would he feel about us? And the answer is he'd be pretty disgusted. But also, what would Dante recommend that we do? What are some paths forward given the structure of society today? So thanks for the question, and we'll come back to it later on, okay?