Prime Crime: Solved Murders - The Missing Dead: Girly Chew Hossencofft

Episode Date: May 24, 2023

In September 1999, 36-year-old Girly Chew Hossencofft was supposed to report to work at a local Bank of America branch in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Due to recent threats made by her husband, Girly’s co-workers were worried. When a colleague went to her house to check on her, she was gone. And she was never seen again. If you’d like to learn more about the cases covered in this episode, or learn more about Missing and Unidentified Persons Awareness Month, head to www.spotify.com/disappearances. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Due to the nature of this episode, listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of assault and murder. Consider this when deciding how and when you'll listen. It's not unusual for high-profile murder cases to attract conspiracy theories. When there isn't much evidence to go on, armchair detectives fill in the details themselves, and before you know it, rumors around motive, circumstances, and possible suspects spiral out of control.

For investigators, it can be difficult and dangerous, sorting out what's true and what's not. It wastes valuable time and resources and can distract from finding real answers. Today's case is filled with conspiracy theories, but not in the way you might expect. They didn't come from the Internet or the public. They weren't anonymous tips from strangers. They came from the man investigators considered their primary suspect, so they had no choice but to follow them down the rabbit hole. Because somewhere beneath the layers of alien takeovers,

youth serums, and new world orders, was the truth about what happened to Gurley Chew Hasenkoff. Welcome to Solved Murder's True Crime Mysteries, a Spotify original from Parcast. I'm your host Carter Roy. And I'm your host Wendy McKenzie. Every Wednesday we step into the world of true crimes most fascinating murder cases and tell the tale of how real-life detectives close the case.

You can find episodes of Solved Murders and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free exclusively on Spotify. The month of May is missing and unidentified person's awareness month, and in honor of this important event, We had solved murders want to shed light on a topic that shrouded in misconception. No body homicides. According to former federal prosecutor Tad de Bias, more than 542 no-body homicide cases have found their way into U.S. courtrooms. And of those cases, around 86% ended in a conviction, which is actually higher than for all homicide cases. And this is no small feat.

For this series, we're debunking four words. No body, no crime. Instead of our usual cast of actors, we'll be diving deeper into the heart of these cases with the help of a friend and missing persons advocate, Sarah Turney. Sarah will be giving us her opinions and insights throughout our missing dead series. My name is Sarah Turney and I host Disappearances and The Voices for Justice podcast. I have personal experience with my own. sister's no body homicide case. We're going through her trial right now so I can't say much,

but this is a topic that's really close to my heart and a topic I've spent a lot of time researching. Like last time, she'll be weighing in at various points of our story, walking us through what she thinks does and doesn't help in solving this wild case. For even more programming around Missing Person's Awareness Month, be sure to check out her podcast Disappearances, a Spotify original from Parcast, and you can visit Spotify.com forward slash disappearances for more ways to get involved. And we'll be right back after this. September 10th, 1999, around 8 a.m. In a quiet neighborhood of Albuquerque, New Mexico, employees at a local Bank of America branch

powered on their computers and settled in for another day of work. But someone was missing. 36-year-old Gurley Chu Hosenkoffed. This immediately raised concern. Curley had always been punctual, and she recently confided in her coworkers about some alarming details from her personal life. Specifically, threats her husband,

Dyson, had made, before they separated back in February. By 8.15 a.m., the bank employees called the police. While they waited for authorities to arrive, a friend and coworker named Jesse Grosven, Grove offered to go to Gurley's apartment to check on her. When he arrived, he saw Gurley's car parked in the lot outside. He rang her doorbell, and no one answered. The door was locked, and the blinds were closed. Jesse contacted the building manager to gain access to the apartment.

Inside, he found Gurley's possessions all neatly stacked right where they belonged. But Gurley was nowhere in sight. Soon, authorities arrived and kicked off an investigation into her disappearance. Of course, most of it ended up focusing on her husband, and their relationship is where we'll go next. Gurley and Dyson had fallen in love years ago. Gurley had moved from Malaysia to the United States to be with him. She found work as a bank teller, and they slowly built a life together.

It didn't matter that Gurley was underpaid. Dyson was a geneticist. he made more than enough money to support the two of them. They bought expensive cars and Diozin paid in all cash. Their marriage started out great, but as time wore on, Dyson grew distant. He traveled a lot for work, leaving Gurley home alone often. She didn't know the details of his job. He couldn't really discuss them, but Gurley assumed it must be important,

maybe even top secret. Why else would he keep his home office locked? all the time. So while her husband continued his very important job, Gurley bonded with her new puppy. However, the dog couldn't cure her loneliness. What she really wanted was a child, but they'd been struggling to conceive.

However, in August, 1966, Diasin made a miracle happen. He came home from one of his work trips with a baby wrapped in his arms, less than a month old. He told Gurley he'd adopt. adopted the little boy. Gurley asked very few questions.

She was just glad to finally be a mother. She gave their new son a name, Dmitri. But not even parenting removed the distance in their marriage. Much of the time, Gurley was left to raise Dimitri on her own while Diozin jetted off to medical conferences or work trips or to save someone's life

on some operating table somewhere in the country. By 1998, Diozin had another reason for leaving home. He told Gurley he'd been diagnosed with leukemia and needed to be hospitalized for blood transfusions, which would require travel and being away for weeks at a time. Around this time, Gurley started to suspect that there might be something off about her picture-perfect husband. She wondered if he was hiding something, and she wasn't going to wait around for Dyson to tell her the truth. So one afternoon, Gurley snuck into his private home office. And when she did, she uncovered more than she ever bargained for.

For starters, she found documents that referred to him by a completely different name. And he seemed to have four different social security numbers. She also found emails on his computer that he'd exchanged with other women. Love letters that proved all of his work trips were less about business. and more about pleasure. And to top it all off, she found a three-page letter from an attorney that suggested he wasn't even a real doctor. He'd never graduated from medical school. To top that off, he'd allegedly tried to poison a woman with arsenic.

Gurley confronted him, but it didn't go well. We don't know many details about the actual conversation, but in time, Dyson's anger and secrecy grew worse, until it manifested into physical abuse. By January 1999, Gurley had spoken to a few divorce lawyers, but she still hadn't left Diasin. Cases like this are so hard. Again, that's Sarah Turney, host of disappearances. I know that sometimes when we hear these stories, it can be frustrating.

You might think, why didn't Gurley just leave? I want you to remember that there's a power imbalance there. It had to be incredibly difficult and confused. using for her. And before the end of January, life took another terrible turn. On the evening of January 24th, Gurley was watching TV in bed when Dyson asked her for a bizarre favor. He said he needed her to drive to downtown Albuquerque and grab a menu from the Hyatt

Hotel restaurant. It was an awed request. Plus, Gurley had work in the morning, and she never missed work. So she shrugged him off and turned back to the TV. while Dyson left to get a drink. Minutes later, GERley heard the garage door open. She got up out of bed and went to see what her husband was up to. That's when she found Dyson crouched beside her car,

apparently loosening the nuts on her tires. Dyson was trying to kill her. And the second she accused him of it, he attacked. Dyson shoved Gurley onto the hood of the car and began hitting her when she was finally able to break free. she pushed the garage door opener and darted over to the neighbor's house. Hiding inside, Gurley called to police and reported the incident. It's unclear where Diasin was in the aftermath, but the police did go to their house and help Gurley get some of her things.

The next day, Gurley packed her bags, searched for a new place to live, and filed for divorce. She didn't move very far. She still had a job and a life in Albuquerque. But she kept the location of her new apartment a secret. And come February, she secured a restraining order against Dyson, making it illegal for him to have any sort of direct communication with her. But he persisted in making life a living hell. In the first few months of their separation,

Gurley tried to gain visitation rights to their son. But Dyson did whatever he could to make sure that wouldn't happen. Dyson routinely followed her home from work. He shattered her car windshield, called her at work, and on more than one occasion, threatened he would kill her and make sure no one ever found her body. According to author Mark Horner's book September's sacrifice, Diozin was charged for violating his restraining order three different times. He was set to go on trial in July, where he faced potential jail time, but the hearing was rescheduled for late September, and there wasn't much girl he could do until, then. By August, Gurley felt she had no choice but to relinquish her parental rights to Dimitri for her own safety. She couldn't deal with Diasin's harassment any longer. But even still, the

personal attacks didn't stop. After ensuring Gurley wouldn't take custody, Diasin contacted an agency and put their son back up for adoption. Then on September 8th, 1999, Gurley called the FBI to discuss Diozin's violent past. In that conversation, an agent asked Gurley if he'd done anything that could warrant an immediate arrest. Any threats or stalking? Strangely enough, Gurley said no. The agent said, well, if that changed, she should call 911. All this would become very important in the investigation.

This is a case where we have a clear paper trail and a lot of circumstantial evidence, and that's okay. I think there's a big misconception in true crime that circumstantial evidence is somehow not good evidence. And I want to stress that circumstantial evidence is evidence and it's good evidence. This could be vital to her case. Two days later, on September 10th, Gurley failed to show up to her job at Bank of America. Her colleague, Jessie Grove, drove to her apartment. Gurley wasn't there. But two hours later, about 100 miles southwest of Elfellie,

A road worker spotted something strange on the south side of the highway. Coming up. I just want to use this moment to reiterate that if you see something, say something. Plus, youth serums and UFO assassins. Hi, it's Carter. Here to tell you about a very special episode airing this week on my series Cold Cases. In honor of May being missing and unidentified person's awareness month, We're welcoming in Sarah Turney from the podcast Disappearances

to help examine the mystifying circumstances surrounding the high-profile case known as the boy in the box. For nearly 70 years, people all over the country wondered, who is America's unknown child? How did he die? And will we ever learn the truth? A forensic breakthrough would ultimately provide his identity. Joseph Augustus Zarelli.

But as you'll come to find out, that was just one piece of the mystery. It was an absolute pleasure to team up with Sarah to tell this story. I hope you enjoy it. Follow cold cases to hear this episode right now. Listen free only on Spotify. Now back to the story. In 1998, Gurley Chu Hosenkofft learned that the man she'd married wasn't who he said he was. Diasen Hosenkofft was a liar, a cheat, and an abusive.

user. After they separated in February 1999, Gurley received constant threats from her ex. Then on September 10, 1999, Gurley failed to show up for work. No one could find her. That same day, around 10.30 a.m. near the town of Magdalena, New Mexico, a road worker noticed a bizarre gray object on the side of the highway. He pulled over to get a better look, thinking it might be a black. blanket or a tarp. On the outside were large red stains. Inside, long dark strands of hair,

and just a few feet away, a pair of shorts, underwear, and a blouse. They seem to belong to a petite woman, only there was no woman in sight. Meanwhile, back in Albuquerque, police searched Gurley's apartment. They found several blood stains that appeared to have been cleaned with bleach. Nearby, they found particles of art sand, glitter, and multiple strands of hair. From a cat. It was strange because, as far as anyone knew, Gurley wasn't into crafts, and she didn't own a cat.

Neither did the apartment's prior tenants. Knowing Gurley had filed a restraining order against Diozin, which he'd violated on several occasions, police immediately identified him as their primary suspect. And Dyson's neighbors seemed to confirm their suspicions. The night before Gurley's disappearance, they remember Dyson acting stranger than usual. They watched him pull up to his house in a car they'd never seen him drive before. A brown Honda.

He appeared sweaty and frantic, with black stains on his face. Details that seemed key for the investigators to know. Now, I don't know when the neighbors brought this information to the police, But I just want to use this moment to reiterate that if you see something, say something. It may mean nothing to you in the moment, but it could be a vital piece of information that could make or break the case. Given all the neighbors said, plus the restraining order police had to talk to Dyson, but when they knocked on his door, no one answered. The house was vacant.

Certain that Dyson was now on the run, officials were searching for the whereabouts of the 34-year-old. old suspect, who at this point had already gone to extreme lengths to hide from his past. Even if they couldn't find him, it was easy to learn a lot about him simply through public records. Dyson Koft was born in 1965 as Armando Chavez Jr. In 1990, the 25-year-old got into the University of Utah's College of Medicine, and that's where it seems his grifting first began. In school, he was caught falsifying lab reports, creating fake letters of recommendation, and lying on a federal grant application. Needless to say, he was kicked out soon after.

His only qualifications for being a doctor were those seven weeks spent in med school. At the time, he was also going through a divorce with a woman named Rosemary. She seemed terrified of Armando and his emotional abuse. Even after their divorce was finalized, he was a woman. continued to make strange demands. He insisted she take out a life insurance policy and make him the beneficiary. Which was especially alarming,

considering he'd once told Rosemary he could easily get away with murder because he knew exactly how to get rid of a body. For those investigating Gurley's disappearance, this was more circumstantial evidence. His relationship with Rosemary eventually ended, but his grifting didn't. He later changed his name to Dyson, faked several degrees, including one from Cornell Medical School, and married Girlie.

And throughout his marriage to Gurley, not only was he seeing multiple other women behind her back, he was conning them as well. One was a woman who had been living with breast cancer. Dyson sold her a fake cure and billed her about $500,000 over the course of 20 months. She died a short time later. Then there was Julie McGuire. Dyson started seeing her just before separating from Gurley in the summer of 1998. Dyson told her while working for the government, he discovered a youth serum. He offered it to her for a few thousand dollars.

It was an odd proposal for sure, but Julie was intrigued by the possibility of eternal youth, so she let Dyson take her blood, which he claimed was the first step in the process, and after that, things got a whole lot weirder. Dyson told Julie he himself was much older than he looked. Over a hundred years old, in fact, all because he was part alien. It's a wild claim, one that makes it easy to forget this is a murder case. It's easy to see how Dyson's story can easily overshadow girlies in the media, something Sarah has a strong opinion about.

I honestly don't even know what to say about this guy at this point. I mean, I think that all of his crazy claims really have affected the perception of this case, not only the way that people perceive it, but the way that the media tells the story. They're going to go with what generates the most clicks and views, and that's going to be his crazy conspiracy theories. And for investigators, what was more important was what Diasin had told Julie about Gurley, that he was going to, quote, take her out and make her disappear.

And said he had two people already willing to help him do it. By this point, investigators had found a few items in Gurley's apartment, bloodstains, glitter, and cat hairs, and a bloody tarp on the side of the highway next to clothes that could have fit Gurley, and uncovered an unimaginably pathological backstory for their primary suspect. And yet, the truth only got strange. the further they dug. Eventually, investigators found some telling documents about their son Dimitri.

He wasn't adopted. Diasin was his birth father. He'd had an affair with a woman in Canada, got her pregnant, and convinced the woman into letting him keep the child. But under the emergency contact section of Dmitri's latest adoption forms, detectives found the name of another woman. Her name was Linda Henning. Linda claimed her relationship with Diasin was purely professional.

He had cancer and she was his caretaker. That's all. But as soon as they saw Linda's car, they knew there was more to the story. Linda drove a brown Honda. The same kind, Diasan drove the night girly disappeared. She had also just washed her car and had the tires rotated before police arrived. This alone wasn't enough to implicate Linda. But police suspected it was only a matter of time before the pieces fell in place.

On September 22nd, two weeks after Gurley disappeared, the FBI found an arrested Diozin in South Carolina. The next question was, if he would be convicted. The limbo between arrest and conviction is extremely difficult. When you get an arrest, it really does feel like this huge victory. But then you realize that it's not over yet. it's kind of like the last battle of a major war and everything rides on that battle.

These things can take years. And when you're going through the trial process, you also have to deal with the fact that this person that has just been arrested for your loved one's murder is still considered innocent until guilty. And while you can agree with the law on one hand as a person with emotions, that's also just really hard to deal with.

After his arrest, authorities translate, transported Diazin back to New Mexico where he appeared before a grand jury. Linda Henning was also called to the stand, but she insisted she had no involvement in Gurley's disappearance. She never even met Gurley before. But she did finally admit to her relationship with Diazin, meaning she'd initially lied to the police. The two met at a UFO convention in June 1999, and from there, the more time Linda spent with Diasin, the more her interest in UFOs spiraled into paranoia.

Diasan had convinced her that a great intergalactic war was coming. He had proof that an alien queen was already living on Earth. The only way to destroy this alien queen was by using a warrior's sword, and Dyson somehow convinced Linda she was the chosen assassin. This helped investigators obtain a search warrant for Linda. his home. One of the first things they noticed, Linda Henning owned multiple cats, and in her garage, she had arts and glitter and a ninja sword. The same type of weapon dies and told her she needed to kill an alien queen. Later, police confirmed that Linda had even lied during her

grand jury testimony. She knew Gurley well. Linda was a regular customer at the Bank of America. Curley had helped her make several deposits. By mid-October, police were confident Linda Henning was involved in Gurley's death in some capacity. They just needed a little more evidence to prove it. After running a DNA analysis on the stains in Gurley's apartment, forensic investigators confirmed it was blood, but not all of it was Gurley's. They trace some of the DNA to Linda Henning. The art sand, glitter, and cat hairs found in her home, also matched what investigators bagged at the crime scene. As for the tarp and clothing found on the side of the road, officials found additional evidence including DNA that connected the items to Gurley, Linda, and Dias and Hosenkoff.

Now, I'm not going to discount the value of DNA evidence. Obviously, it's huge for any case, but it's just one piece of the puzzle. There's something called the CSI effect, and it is highly debated in the community, but essentially it's the idea that jurors are affected by watching all these true crime programs. They believe that DNA evidence or having a body is the only way to get a conviction in a homicide, and it's just not true. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Circumstantial evidence is evidence and it's good evidence. Even without Gurley's body, investigators felt confident they had their smoking gun. By mid-November 1999, the Grand jury indicted Linda and Dyson for Gurley's murder.

Linda claimed her motive for helping Diasen was simple. She needed to save humanity from Gurley because Gurley was the alien queen. But forensic evidence suggested there was more to the story. Dyson had told his ex-girlfriend Julie McGuire at least one truth that past summer. He'd recruited two people to help him get rid of Gurley. Meaning there was a third conspirator in Gurley's murder, and they were still at large. Coming up. I just can't even imagine how devastating this was for her family.

Pink deer hairs and green feathers lead to a potential accomplice. And now, back to our story. In October 1999, forensic analysts received the DNA results from the samples collected in Gurley-chew-Hawson coffee. apartment. They compared it to the tarp found over 100 miles away just outside of Magdalena, New Mexico, and found hair, saliva, and blood samples that belong not just a girly, but to her estranged husband, Diasin Hossincoft, and his girlfriend, Linda Henning. But there were two more pieces of evidence on that tarp, ones that didn't match either Dyson or Linda. Strands of pink deer hair and two green feathers.

Dyson's story included plenty of shape-shifting reptilians and alien takeovers, but there was one other detail that stood out to investigators. Diasan implied that a friend of his named Bill Miller and a team of militiamen had killed Gurley. Diasan claimed they used her as target practice for the impending war against a new world order. The accusation seems so outrageous, too outrageous to be true. but Bill Miller was a real person. Most people knew him as a run-of-the-mill middle-aged New Mexico dad who was always willing to lend a hand.

He loved to hunt and fish. But behind closed doors, Bill had a fascination with UFOs and government conspiracy theories. He met Linda Henning in Dyesen-Hassinkovt through their shared interests. The three of them became close friends, and by the summer of 1999, they were inseparable.

They took trips to the New Mexican desert, where Bill gave them guns for target practice. One evening, Bill even brought Linda with him to a friend's house to spend the night. The location? Magdalena, New Mexico. Just a couple minutes from where that tarp was found. By August, both Linda and Bill put their houses up for sale. Bill told his wife it was because their name,

neighbor's dog was too loud. But behind closed doors, he told members of his UFO group, he was worried about being in New Mexico when a New World Order took hold. He also told those same people that Diozin had asked him to kill Gurley. On October 29, 1999, investigators got a search warrant for Bill's home. In his garage, they bagged and tagged several of his fly fishing ties, which included pink deer hair and a green feather. The same kind found on the tarp. After conducting another search on his home about a year later,

officials ran a DNA analysis on all the evidence they'd found. Once they did, it confirmed a match. In February 2001, a SWAT team moved in on Bill Miller and arrested him at a local market. He was charged with first-degree murder, kidnapping, and tampering with evidence. All three of Gurley's potential killers were now awaiting trial. Meanwhile, Linda and Dyesin's romance continued through letters for another six to eight months. In one of those notes, they spoke about Bill Miller and how he'd made for what they called the perfect scapegoat.

On January 9, 2002, Dyson got his day in court. Up until that moment, he'd been adamant that he played no role in Gurley's disappearance. But to everyone's surprise, he accepted a plea deal. Rather than face a lengthy trial and a possible death sentence, he was given a life sentence plus an additional 61 years in prison. He said he would tell the authorities everything he knew, which maybe for the family could have meant the location of the body. Girlie's family could finally breathe a sigh of relief that at least one of the people responsible for her murder would stay behind bars.

But any hope of actually finding her body faded quickly. A few days after striking his deal, Diasin sat detectives down and told them, quote, My statement is this. I don't have any knowledge of the whereabouts of Gurley Hosenkoft. This is obviously just devastating. From my experience, usually when these plea deals are offered, the family does have a say in it. That doesn't mean they get to tell the prosecutor what to do or what to offer, but they are at least consulted. You basically just get to express your wishes.

So I don't know whether or not Gurley's family wanted the plea deal or not, but I have to imagine that they had hope for these answers. He agreed to give them these answers. For him to just turn around and say he doesn't have any knowledge after agreeing to this deal is just cruel. Again, I just can't even imagine how devastating this was for her family. By September 2002, Gurley's case made national news, in part because of the sensational conspiracy theories about aliens and a new world order. But as Linda Henning's hearing approached, those theories posed a problem for attorneys. They affected everything about the trial, down to the jury selection process. One of the questions attorneys asked while narrowing down the pool was,

does anyone here believe life exists in outer space? But at the end of the day, the trial wasn't about government secrets and supernatural forces. This was a domestic homicide case, and the prosecution knew it needed to be treated as one. During the trial, both Linda's lawyers and even Diazin himself used various tactics to try and prove her innocence, but the prosecution had their own theory about the events. They suggested that both Linda and Diazin forced their way inside Gurley's apartment that September night, then buried her body somewhere in the New Mexico desert. The evidence seemed to fit that version of events.

Linda had rented a set of walkie-talkies and bought a flashlight the day before Gurley went missing. She also had that ninja sword and a gray tarp. And two days after Gurley vanished, Linda told a close friend that Gurley had been kidnapped and killed. Then later, Linda told a cellmate Gurley had been buried in a place that could only be reached by a Jeep. But nothing stood up in court better than the investigator's forensic evidence. The DNA. On October 25, 2002, Linda was found guilty of felony murder, kidnapping, and tampering with evidence. She faced the death penalty but was ultimately sentenced to 73 years in prison.

Even after her conviction, she maintained that she didn't know Gurley's final resting place. But there was one person left who might. On July 14, 2003, jury selection commenced for Bill Miller's trial. But two days later, it was called off. Bill had agreed to a plea deal. He argued no contest on three counts of attempted tampering with evidence. The grand jury only indicted Miller with the less serious offenses after his lawyer argued that a few pink deer hairs and a feather weren't enough to make a case against him.

He was only sentenced to seven weeks in jail. He didn't have to testify or answer questions about where Gurley's body might be. The case was officially closed. If Bill Miller did know where Gurley was buried, he never shared that information with law enforcement. To this day, Gurley's body has never been found. I want to take a moment and read you some of the headlines I found in this case. because they are absolutely ridiculous. Prosecutor, New Mexico defendant claimed she ate victims flesh.

Bloody items inside gory scene after con man, Diasin-Hosinkov, convinced girlfriend his wife was Alien Queen before killing her. Reptillion Queens, UFOs, a cancer cure. New Mexico murder trial begins. These titles are absolutely ridiculous, and they don't do anything to help Gurley or her. family. I really hope that after listening to this episode, you can look past the headlines, past the media sensationalism, and look at this family that wants justice and answers.

Hopefully one day, both will come. Thanks again for tuning into Solved Murders. And thanks to Sarah Turney for joining us today. Of the many sources we used for this episode, we found Mark Horner's book, September's sacrifice incredibly useful to our research. You can find all episodes of Solved Murders and all other Spotify originals from Parcast for free on Spotify. We'll see you next time. Solved Murders, True Crime Mysteries is a Spotify original from Parcast.

Our supervising sound designer is Russell Nash, with Nick Johnson as our head of production and Spencer Howard as our post-production supervisor. Quality Control by Lisa Marie Gallegos. Stacey Nemick is our supervising editor, and Derek Jennings is our writing lead. This episode of Solve Murders was written by Lori Marinelli, edited by Maggie Admire and Connor Samson, fact-checked by Bennett Logan, researched by Mickey Taylor and Bradley Klein, produced by Joshua Kern and Aaron Larson, and sound design by Alex Button. Our hosts are Wendy McKenzie, and me, Carter Roy.