Prof G Markets - CoreWeave Is Imploding — And Taking AI Stocks Down With It

Episode Date: October 15, 2026

Ed Elson is joined by Paul Kedrosky to break down CoreWeave’s debt crisis and whether it signals a broader problem for the industry. Then, Mark Zandi returns to unpack the latest inflation reading from the Consumer Price Index and what recent consumer spending data reveals about the state of the economy. Finally, Ed shares his take on a report that CFTC investigators were ordered to halt their analysis of potential insider trading involving the President. Paul Kedrosky is a Managing Partner at SK Ventures. Mark Zandi is the Chief Economist at Moody’s Analytics. Vote for Prof G Markets at the Signal Awards here  Subscribe to the Prof G Markets Youtube Channel  Follow Prof G Markets on Instagram Follow Ed on Instagram, X and Substack Follow Scott on Instagram Send us your questions or comments by emailing [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

How much have you spent on your pet's medical care this year? Maybe more than your own? 25 years ago, it was very rare to hear of a pet having an MRI. Now it's kind of standard if a pet presents with an issue. Big corporations and private equity have seen all of this and have rushed into the sector. While your vet bill is so high, that's this week on Explain It to Me. Listen to new episodes, Sundays, wherever you go. at your podcasts.

If money is evil, then that building is hell. Show those up! Welcome to Profi Markets. I'm Ed Elson. It is October 15th. Let's check in on yesterday's Market Vitals. The major indices declined on the latest inflation data and continued pain in the chip market.

We will cover both of those topics today. The yield on 10-year treasuries spiked back above 5.3% following that inflation report before retreating by the end of the day. Bank of America stock fell nearly 5% after the company missed on profits and took a $1.2 billion penalty. That charge was for a failure to monitor instances of money laundering. And finally, shares of bending spoons soared more than 42% on news that Berkshire Hathaway has built a 4% stake in the tech roll-up company. By the way, I recently interviewed the founder and CEO of Bending Spoons. You can go check that out.

And one last thing. Today is the final day for voting in the Signal Award. So if you like our show, please head to vote.signalward.com. Cost your ballots for us in each of these three categories, best video podcast, best daily podcast, and best money and finance podcast. We'll leave a link in the description to make it easy for you. Thank you so much. Okay. What else is happening? AI Cloud Company CoreWeave might be on its last legs. On Tuesday, the yield on one of its bonds touched 15% reaching a new record high. Those bonds come due in 2032.

Then the stock tanked on fears that the company wouldn't be able to pay back its massive amounts of debt. Yesterday, it closed down 16%. Coriwe've brought down other AI infrastructure companies as well, including Oracle, nebius, broadcom, Nvidia, TSM and Micron, all of which ended the day in the red. The stakes are quite high for Corweave. As of the end of June, the company had about $52 billion in debt and lease obligations up from roughly $15 billion a year earlier. Last quarter, it paid $640 million in interest more than double what it paid this time last year. In yesterday's episode, our guest, Gil Luria of DA Davidson, warned us that if the AI trade falters, Corweave's equity could go, quote, to zero. So, is it a lot of that going to happen? Here to break this down. We're speaking with Paul Kedroski, managing partner at SK Ventures. Paul, great to see you. Thank you for joining us. So CoreWeave has been taken to the cleaners today, along with a lot of other heavily debt-laden AI names. So Nebius is down 11%,

iron is down 12%. Oracle is down almost 9%. Or at least that was the closing price. Let's just start with your general reactions. What is happening here? What are the markets telling us? So the funny thing is, is this has taken so long to happen. I mean, the situation at CoreWeave hasn't really changed dramatically from eight months ago. It's just that it takes people a long time to notice. And the situation, of course, is that it's among the most indebted of the neoclouds. And as you pointed out, an incredibly high debt burden. And that debt burden either has to be refinanced or has to be paid for by selling tokens to people who rent space in the neoclouds. all of those get more difficult when you have exactly this kind of debt spiral going on,

no different than the U.S. seeing the 10-year spiking, and then all of a sudden that has an effect on the deficit, as people look forward with the increasing cost of Corweave's debt, as the spreads blow out, they look forward and say, wait a minute, that has implications for the refinancing in future raises, and so as a result, that becomes the same sort of debt-death spiral that you've seen in some sovereigns, and it's just playing out, it took a long time to play out inside of Corwieve, but it's finally happening. And there's a whole bunch of reasons why probably among the largest is that in the same way that

fundraising among the AI-CAPEX fundraising has squeezed sort of the mid-duration treasuries, the 10 years, for example, which is incredible and has never really happened before. The reverse is also true, that as the 10-year, an equivalent duration treasuries become more attractive, it becomes much more difficult for these highly indebted neocloubts, to raise money. So this perverse relationship goes in both directions. And the net effect is both of them have much more consequential debt burdens and then interest rates going forward. And the difficulty for

a neocloud like Corweave is unlike the United States, it doesn't have a Treasury Department and can't print money in the basement. The CEO of Corweave responded to the price move. And he said that the market is acting, quote, irrationally. He said that the problems at other companies are, quote, bleeding into the narrative around Corweave and that the market, quote, misunderstands the company. Do you agree with these comments? No, I mean, these are very typical. I mean, he has to say these things. I don't want to imply that there's any kind of, you know, criminal nefariousness in here,

but you have to say these kinds of things to support the company and say that this is not company-specific. This is something broader in the AM marketplace. But it's not. It's very specific to the most indebted neoclodes because of these twinned phenomena of high-es cost of debt, higher cost of debt servicing. So that's at the one end. And at the other end, and Epic, AI, had a great report about this, about the continuing, staggering deflation in token prices. So Epic had a report out, I think it was earlier in the week, pointing out that we've had, for the last four years, roughly a 13-fold annual decrease in the cost of tokens. So doing the

math, it's pretty straightforward. It's price times volume. And I got debt that I have to service from that price times volume, that becomes astronomically more difficult, given the increasing volumes required, if I'm seeing an annual decline of a 13-fold in terms of the cost of tokens, to put it in context, that means you have to grow, to stand still, you have to grow your token sales, if you will, I think about it like copper or oil or anything else, 1,300% a year. That's what 13-hundredfold means. Bringing you back even more, that means you have to double your token sales every 90 days.

This is very tough math, made worse by the blowout in the rates and the increasing cost of servicing the debt. So these two feed on each other. So if you've got declining token prices, which essentially means that unless they explode their business, they've got less money coming in, at the same time, you've got rising yields, also rising yields across the board. I mean, you've got rising yields on... And rising spreads, too. It's important to say it's not just the yield, right? I mean, so the spread over treasuries is blowing out as well.

So there's these two things happening at once, which makes it even more complicated. Right, which I guess the question is, is there a scenario, if spreads remain this high and if yields remain this high, is there a scenario in which Corweave doesn't end up defaulting? I mean, I guess that is the question that investors are trying to pulse out right now. But it does seem that the likelihood that they will not be able to make their interest payments is extremely. extremely high. Do you see a world in which they do figure it out? No. So I see instead a world where at best, you have fairly radical restructuring of their debt obligations, which is what the markets are telling you, right? When the debt's trading at, say, 80-odd cents on the dollar, when you do the default math, it's saying there's a significant likelihood I will not be repaid in full. And the reason, generally

speaking, while you're not repaid in full, is not because of an alien invasion. It's because the debt gets restructured. If investors actually thought it was unlikely to be paid at all, obviously it would be trading at a much lower because we're talking about debt that matures in 2032. So it's not actually that far away. So when you see it trading at these levels with the market, the debt market's trying to tell you is this stuff gets restructured. You're not getting a dollar. Gautner came out with an analysis. They estimated that 80% of neoclads will be out of business by 2030. And there are a ton of these companies, Corweave, Lambda, Nebius, Irons, I mean, I could go on all these new names.

Or you can even look at the withdrawn, some of the withdrawn Australian IPO, whose name escapes me, was Kotu-backed. I can't remember who it was. Yes, Firmus. But they're another example, right? So even the public markets are reluctant to receive these guys.

By the way, as an aside with Gardner, there's a great line from Mike Milken from years ago is you only get maximum points for predicting things before it happens. And so the problem with the garden stuff is, okay, yeah, now you're telling me when it's absolutely obvious and these things are distressed,

I'm sorry, I don't put a lot of stake in that. So yes, they're not wrong. It's just, it's not particularly helpful to tell you this as the spreads blow out. Yeah, I guess the question is, it sounds like you believe that this isn't just a core weave problem. This is a systemic problem. This is true of, I mean, does it go beyond the neoclouds? Do you think this is true of Oracle as well? I mean, Nvidia was down a little bit, you know, 3 or 4%.

I mean, their balance sheet, I think, is a lot more healthy than a lot of these companies. But who do you consider to be in the red zone? So the neoclods across the board and probably Oracle has this kind of, I don't even know, want to be hyperscaler slash neocloud has managed to find itself in the gun sites of two different rifles. So I think that's the group that's most troubled here. And I think the way to think about it

is much like what was happening during the GFC, the global financial crisis, where all of these banks were saying, listen, there's nothing wrong. Like our debts, and we're not defaulting on our debt, but the market instead was saying here, what you have is a refinancing problem. We see a wall of refinancing ahead,

and there's a lot of data out here to show that between 28 and 32, There's a massive wallet refinancing, and it ain't going to happen at the prices that justify your business as it currently looks. One pushback that I've heard is Corweave has this Invidia relationship. Invidia invested more than $2 billion in the company. They own around 10% of the company. They have committed to buy billions of dollars worth of compute. Perhaps there's a world in which Nvidia bails them out, or Nvidia saves them,

or they make sure that CoreWeave and any of their other little neocloud startups that they have backed, to make sure that none of them will fail. Is that something that is, you know, is that a reasonable prediction? Do you think that could actually happen? No, I don't think so. I think this is like this classic speculative game the market likes to play.

It's the old sort of like, if my aunt had wheels should be a bicycle problem. Absolutely. If I grant you that, then everything else follows. But I have to grant you something wildly implausible in the first place, which that NVIDIA sees the need to own and restructure a Neocloud,

and it's really difficult to see why they would do that. Wouldn't the problem be that it could, if Corweave goes out of business, if Corweve has to default on its debt, is there not a situation where investors' confidence in the entire AI trade will be completely shaken

on that this could be sort of the beginning of the end and the House of Codds starts to fall? I mean, might it be in Nvidia's best interest to take their billions of dollars in cash and just say, okay, we'll make sure that you stay propped up, keep you afloat, so that we all stay afloat? The problem is the scale of the obligations once the dominoes start falling. So once it starts here, how far do you go with this? It wouldn't surprise me to see someone try to staunch the bleeding as the first neocloud fails. But the problem is then, of course, the cascade will continue

because the market will test your commitment to the trade, as it were. And as a result, how many of these people are, how many of these companies are you willing to backstop in an effort to make sure that you don't have this rippling cascade. And suddenly, you said to yourself as Nenvidia or someone else says, hang on a second, I'm not Hank Paulson. I'm not the Federal Reserve. I'm not in the business of bailing out the system. The system goes down without me. So my understanding is you believe that we're going to see a pretty significant correction. How close in your mind are we to that point, given what we saw with Corby? timing is always always impossible. I mean, I've been saying sometime between now and the first second quarter

of next year, but I saw Paul Tudor Jones on CNBC yesterday saying sort of something similar, you know, so he's much smarter than I am. So I'll go with Paul and say the first half of the year, but I think it could be, it could be sooner. The thing is, is that one way to think about what's going on, and I get this question all the time is like the timing question, and they say, well, you can't be soon because market price earnings multiples are nothing like they were back in the dot-com era. Where's the bubble? Paul, where's the bubble? And of course, the answer is, the valuation of open ion anthropic alone combined in the private markets and what we're likely to see as they come public is already more than the peak NASDAQ valuation when it crashed in 2000. So the problem is,

is people are looking in public markets for a thing that's sitting in plain sight in private ones. And so we're already there and the triggers are everywhere. But it's your view then that the bubble exists, but it's not pervasive to the entire market. it's in pockets of the market. It's in places like private markets or the neoclods or certain chip manufacturers. There are some stocks which are way over their skills. Yes. I mean, it's widespread.

It's just that private markets are the new public markets, right? That's the term we've been hearing now for five years because of the disappearance of public equities from the marketplace. And so as a result, unsurprisingly, if private markets are the new public markets, private markets, where the problem is. And the only exception to that rule broadly is China where something now, there's something like 880 AI list or public companies that are AI related now up from zero, two years ago with a combined market cap of something like $3 trillion.

So they're well on their way to creating on the public side. So we have the private side happening here because we've decided that privates are the new public and the public side happening in China. And those two are rippling and going to like waves coinciding. Whenever they go down, they'll bring each other down. And so that's, say, $6 trillion in nonsensical market capitalization. As we record this, Anthropic is just wrapping up. It's private investor day. They're reportedly disclosing some of their financials to the pre-IPO investors. Supposedly, some of those financials might come out soon. We haven't seen them. Maybe they'll be out by the time this episode airs. And by out you mean that some investment banker will leak it.

That's the thing, right? I mean, people, they leak. It's so hilarious. People act like they found a copy at a hotel lobby. No, it's an investment banker who says, hey, by the way, here's this. Call it a leak. No, it's just pre-marketing the IPO, which is illegal, of course, but bankers do it anyway. So anyways, I digress.

But that's what's really happening here. I assume that whatever numbers we see you don't think will be particularly informative as to what is actually going on in terms of their financials. There are only two numbers I really care about. And one is the level of customer concentration because we have a pretty strong sense that more than 80% of the revenues are perhaps eight companies. And I want to see

the customer concentration because if that's so, that's unprecedented. And in particular, I want to see what's happening with respect to the coding aspect of that because my hunch is, and we've seen this in recent data, that we're really at the other end of this coding frenzy that drove the initial adoption. And so everything

now has to happen from other marketplaces that look nothing like coding. So those two things are all I care about. I doubt they'll give us much color on those, and the rest will be just earnings before bad things. Paul Kedroski is managing partner at SK Ventures. Paul, always appreciate it. Thank you. Sure.

After the break, the latest inflation data. And be sure to tune in tomorrow, October 16th, for a live stream with our very own research associate, Dan Shalon. He's going to be breaking down the winners and losers of the autonomous vehicle wars. You can subscribe to access that conversation. many others at profgmedia.com slash subscribe. Support for the show comes from AG1, just when you might have settled into your post-summer routine. October comes to shake things up a little more. The light changes, the days get shorter, and sometimes those good habits you've built up can slip. So if your diet has gotten a little

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episode of Creator Destroy, reimagining marketing. I'm talking with streetwear legend Jeff Staples, who in 2005 designed a Nike collab, which was the pigeon dunk that caused a riot, resales for thousands of dollars 21 years later and gets the credit or blame for bringing sneaker culture to the masses. In our conversation, we talk about why you can't buy your way into culture, no matter how big your check, why 40 hours of meetings a week with none of them talking about what the customer actually wants is the most common way he sees businesses destroy value. And why, when I asked him what he'd destroy with all the power in the world, Jeff said likes and comments, because if likes and comments existed when he started, he never would have

made the next thing. Creator Destroy. It's a business show, a marketing show, and the show that argues they've always been the same thing. From the Wisdom is Company and the Fox Media Podcast Network. We're back with Profi Markets. Prices rose 3.7% in September from a year earlier, the highest rate since May. The bulk of the increase in prices came from energy. Gas prices rose 9.1% for the month and are up 34% for the past year. However, core prices, which exclude food and energy, rose by 0.3% month over month, which was also hotter than expected. Meanwhile, September marked the sixth straight month of declines in Americans' real earnings. Average hourly earnings adjusted for inflation are down 0.7% from a year

earlier. Stocks fell and the yield on the 10-year treasury rose after this inflation report was released. So joining us to discuss this inflation report and the state of inflation in the U.S. today. We are speaking with Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Analytics. Mark, a pretty bad report, 3.7%, an increase from the previous month, higher than expected, real wages down again. What do you make of this? Yeah, not good, Ed. I mean, inflation is uncomfortably high, and, you know, you can, the Iran war's fingerprints are all over, all over it. Obviously, the higher energy fuel costs go directly to the war. And there's a lot of pass-through going on into the rest of the economy and adding to the inflationary pressures.

Tariffs don't help and immigration policy also are an issue, but that war is really juicing up inflation and causing a lot of problems. And as you say, inflation is now consistently above the rate of wage growth. So people's purchasing power, it's now declining. And, you know, obviously goes to the inks that many Americans feel at this point. I just saw this statistic, which I just found fascinating, which is that since Trump took office again, since he returned to the White House, in real terms, American wage growth, the average American wage growth is zero, which is just quite fascinating, considering that the economy's strong, earnings are exploding up around 40% since he took office. I mean, is that just evidence, more evidence, of a case-shaped taking effect?

Yeah, this is the case-shaped economy. I mean, but this is not a surprise, right? we go back, roll back the clock to right before the tariffs in April of 2025. Maybe the terrorists were coming and, you know, economists said like me and almost everybody else that tariffs are going to lead to slower growth and higher inflation. Then the immigration policy, same deal, slower growth, higher inflation. And of course, the wars, that's pretty just pretty obvious, a slower growth, higher inflation. So, you know, it's not surprising that, you know, we are where we are.

given inflation, and now it's undermining real wages. And to your point about the strong economy, it's okay, but it can't be that strong, right? I mean, if nominal wage growth, that's, you know, with inflation, considered, is decelerating. That means that the labor market is on the soft side. We're not operating at full employment. So, you know, the economy, we're a 4.2% on employment rate. So, you know, I'll take it. But, you know, at the end of the day, we're still not at full employment. Yeah, I guess it just depends on what your definition of the economy. actually is, and we keep on hearing different bragging points. I mean, usually it's that stocks have risen or that GDP is going up. But as you say, I mean, this, when you look at a lot of other

things, it's not looking great. One thing that I have been hearing is that consumer spending is going up, and therefore that is a sign that, you know, the American consumer is strong. what do you make of the consumer spending statistics, and what does it tell us about the overall health of American households right now? Well, they're okay, too, and this goes back to the case shape, right? I mean, the consumer that's driving the train is the well-to-do of the folks that own the stocks, right? I mean, AI, stock prices is going, the stock market is going straight north, or at least it has been. It all goes back to AI, artificial intelligence and AI stocks.

They, you know, since chat, GPT was pulling the planet four years ago, They've gone straight up. I mean, total shareholder wealth. If you take all the stock wealth outstanding, it's doubled in four years from $35 trillion to $70 trillion. That makes a lot of people, you know, feel pretty good about spending. And those folks that own the stocks, they're out spending and driving the train. Everybody else, and that's probably, you know, two-thirds of Americans that don't own much of any stock. Or many don't even own their own home.

They're hanging in there, but they're by their fingertips. And of course, I don't know how much longer they can hang on when their real purchasing power is declining, and their saving rates are now about as low as they can go. So it feels like, you know, the consumer is going to show, you know, a bit of a bend here, and particularly if the stock market doesn't continue to move north. You did a calculation of the costs of the war for American households specifically. could you take us through that calculation? How expensive has the Iran War been for the average American? Yeah, well, the headline is, and I put out a social media post because we just hit $2,000 in extra costs related to the war,

and that breaks down into three, broadly three things. One is obviously the higher cost of energy, gasoline, fuel, diesel prices, jet fuel, home heating, that kind of thing. That's the bulk of the higher cost. Then there's the cost of higher interest rates, right? Because, you know, the Fed's been pushing on the brakes to slow things down because of the high inflation. We're going back to the war. And take the 10-year treasury yield, you know, the day before the war started in late February,

we're sitting at a 10-year yield that was below 4 percent. Now we're sitting with a yield of 5 and a quarter percent. So a lot of that goes back to the war. So you account for all that. And then the third is the military cost because ultimately at the end of the day, that's a cost that's going to be borne by you and I and taxpayers and the American people through, you know, however we address it. And I took the Pentagon estimates for that. So, you know, there's a lot of other costs involved.

You know, everything like, you know, fertilizer costs are up, which is going to affect crop prices and groceries down the road. Helium prices, which affect the cost of semiconductors and thus the prices of consumer electronics that we buy. I didn't, I couldn't account for that. They're too hard to account for. So in my view, that $2,000 estimate is a conservative estimate. Conservative. So $2,000 per household, and that's basically in, like, the most direct costs that we can think of when it comes to the war having an immediate impact, as you say, on oil prices, also interest rates,

the mortgage rates are now skyrocketing again. Where does this leave the Federal Reserve? Because, as you say, their mandate has been, we're going to raise, the last decision was to raise rates. But at the same time, that can also be a problem if you're trying to pay down a mortgage and your rates are rising as a result of higher rates and therefore higher yields. I mean, where does this leave the Fed? What are they supposed to do at this point? Well, it sounds like they're going to raise rates more. I mean, they increased rates back in September. You know, there's another meeting in a couple weeks. And markets are now putting a kind of

close to 50-50 chance that they raise rates in October, but if not, certainly by December, and then markets are anticipating two or three more rate cuts, excuse me, rate increases next year. So if you listen to all the conversation coming from the Fed and what they're saying, and take a look at the minutes from the last meeting and try to divide and kind of where they are based on all this communication, what communication we are receiving, does feel like they're ready to step on the brakes again. And the thinking, the kind of the consensus view, seemingly is that, you know, they don't want this inflation, which is due to the war, to become more entrenched and it's much more difficult to ultimately ring out. So they're kind of trying to head off that possibility at the past before that actually happens.

I mean, in my own view, I'd be more focused and at least put more weight on what's going on in the labor market, going back to full employment. And I don't quite understand how raising rates is going to solve the problems of inflation created by the Iran war. That's not going to be solved by higher rates. So I probably would be a dissenter, but it's a committee with lots of views. And those views hold that the Fed's going to continue to raise rates as long as inflation remains a problem. Something that we were thinking about, just our research team offline, I mean, the last time that we had what people generally agreed, was a very difficult economy, was probably 2022 when you had extremely high inflation coming out of COVID. I mean, that was the last time where I feel like a lot of people kind of agreed, like,

this is a very difficult time to be an American consumer. But it seems like we're now coming close to that. And I wonder if how this moment in 2026, given what we're seeing in inflation, but also significantly lower job openings than that period of time. Like, how does this compare, compared to like the past five or so years, where is our economy when you look at recent history? Well, it feels very vulnerable to me. Again, I mean, the kind of top line numbers, you look at GDP growth, you look at the unemployment rate, you say, okay, you know, the stock market has been rocketing higher. You know, you look at those things, you say it feels okay. But, you

despite that, feels highly vulnerable, very fragile, I think would be the right word. I mean, how can it be, how can you consider the economy healthy when people's real purchasing power is actually declining? And it just that doesn't, or how can it be that you feel good about the economy if no one's hiring? So no one's lying off. That's great because if it did, we'd be in recession. But if you don't lose your job, because if you lose your job, it's going to be very difficult

back to get back into the labor market. And of course, we all focus on the equity market, but for most Americans, it's about their home. And house prices haven't gone anywhere for three to four years, maybe not even longer than that. So I don't know. I mean, we should be able to navigate through if we could just get out of our own way. But, you know, it feels like there's a lot of risks there and we're quite vulnerable because the economy is very fragile. All right. Mark Zandi is chief economist at Moody's Analytics. Mark, always appreciate your time. Thanks, Ed. Another day, another corruption scandal in Washington, this time involving the U.S. derivatives

regulator. According to a new report from Bloomberg, investigators at the CFTC were ordered to retract their analysis of potential insider trading that was related to the president. Their investigation came after billions of dollars' worth of oil trades were executed right before Trump announced that he would be pulling back on missile strikes on Iran. those trades were so unusually successful as to be quite suspicious, which is why the CFTC then did its job of finding out if the traders knew something that the rest of us didn't. But right in the middle of that investigation, a senior advisor at the agency told them to stop. He said, retract the referral, throw it away, and that was an order that has supposedly never been given at the CFTC before.

In other words, someone higher up told these guys, don't touch this. I wonder why. The craziest part, though, is that this isn't the first time that this has happened in this administration. Over at the SEC recently, another investigator was told to stop looking into the Trump family. Her name is Margaret Ryan. And by the way, right after she was prohibited from pursuing an investigation, she mysteriously left the SEC. Over at the DOJ, a similar event occurred. Gail Slater tried to investigate a merger that had compromising relationships with the Trump administration.

She was immediately overruled, her deputies were fired, and soon enough, she was mysteriously ousted as well. So not only do we have a scandal today that rivals Watergate in terms of the scale and the scope of the corruption and the attempt to cover it up, we don't just have that scandal, we have three of them, and each of them tells the exact same story. blatant signs of corruption by the president, followed by an attempt to investigate it, followed by the investigation getting shut down. And in some cases, people getting fired. So what more evidence of corruption do we actually need? Now, this story should be front-page news, but unfortunately it isn't because the world is focused on Iran and AI and the midterms, you name it. But I said it yesterday, and I will say it again today,

We are not going to stop talking about this. It is too egregious, too corrupt, and I'm sick of pretending that any of this is normal. This is the most corrupt administration in the history of America. And the only thing that will make things right is to start putting people in jumpsuits. Why? Because that is how we punish criminals.

And if we think that we live in a fair society, if we think that we still live in the same America that existed decades ago, well, then we cannot keep. making exceptions. Okay, that's it for today. This episode was produced by Claire Miller and Alison Weiss and engineered by Benjamin Spencer. Our video editor is Brad Williams. Our research team is Dan Chalon, Kristen O'Donohue, and Mia Silverio, and our social producer is Jake McPherson. Thank you for listening to Profg Markets from Profg Media.

If you liked what you heard, give us a follow. I'm Ed Elson. Tune in tomorrow for our conversation with Learquette Ahmed.