Prof G Markets - Hillary Clinton: Iran Has Only Gotten Stronger

Episode Date: June 5, 2026

Live from New York City on the final stop of the tour, Ed Elson and Scott Galloway are joined by surprise guest Secretary Hillary Clinton to discuss the state of negotiations with Iran. She also shares her thoughts on the future of the Democratic party, and why young people are rejecting capitalism in favor of socialism. Then, Anthony Scaramucci takes the stage to break down President Trump’s grifts, declining faith in markets, SpaceX’s IPO, and consequences of the fast entry rule changes to the major indices.  Subscribe to the Prof G Markets Youtube Channel  Check out our latest Prof G Markets newsletter Follow Prof G Markets on Instagram Follow Ed on Instagram, X and Substack Follow Scott on Instagram Send us your questions or comments by emailing [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Why do people cheat? And why does it make us so mad even when we're not the ones it's happening to? That's this week on Explain It to Me. New episodes, Sundays, wherever you get your podcast. Today's number 1.3 square miles. That's the landmass of Central Park, greater than the nation state of Monaco. Ed, you guys may not know this,

but Ed actually went to Princeton. And Princeton is credited with more sex research in any university in the world. I went to UCLA. At Princeton, they invented sex. At UCLA, we introduced it to women. That's pretty good. Yeah, this corner likes it.

Some people up there don't like it. I think my Princeton buddy's in the crowd. They don't like it either. All right, who wants a dick joke? So the mooch is here. And he and I were at the urinal and he looks over and he's like, circumcised. And I'm like, nope, that's just the wear and tear.

Well, Scott, it's great to be here finally in New York City, the final stop on the tour. You know, at each city that we've been doing this show, we like to sort of begin the show with a little bit of data about the city, usually some economic data. So, you know, in Los Angeles, we were talking about Hollywood and in Miami we were talking about crypto. So I would like to share some New York City specific data of my own before we get into the show. So my first number to give you today, Scott, is 27. 27. That's how many years have passed since the New York Knicks last made it to the end.

The NBA finals. Today's other number is 53. That's how many years have passed since the New York Knicks last won an NBA championship. I heard a lot of booze there. I can't tell why that's happening, but all I can tell you, Scott, I have three words. Let's go next. That's right. Scott, will you be tuning in tomorrow now?

Be honest with this ad. Does it look like John Santa's going to bust through and I'm going to be a 650-first make-a-wish? Seriously, look at me right now. Look at us. You look good. No, this is what you call birth control. birth control. Well, okay, now that we have our pandering to the audience out of the way, now that we've

gotten on your side, I hope, I'm going to launch us into our first story. Great. Okay. It's been 94 days since the U.S. first launch strikes on Iran, and the path ahead is still unclear. Iran is reportedly still reviewing the latest draft of a potential agreement with the U.S. and has yet to issue a response. Trump also posted on truth social that talks were, quote, going on. However, rhetoric from Tehran continues to harden, a senior Iranian military official said Tuesday

that renewed hostilities with the U.S. appear inevitable, adding that the Iranian nation will never surrender. Meanwhile, the Strait of Hormuz remains effectively closed, continuing to disrupt one of the world's most important energy corridors. So, Scott, week 13 of the war, we talked about inflation, which continues to rise, the numbers do not look great, the straight remains closed. What do you make of these recent developments in Iran and where do you see this all heading? Well, the justification for doing this to begin with was such that Iran would never have access. Oh my God, you do not know what you're talking about. Who's that? Also, your dick joke is old, just so you know. This is the voice of God

talking to you, Scott Galloway. I think I recognize that voice. First of all, you cheat on me with a younger man. And I happen to be in New York. So, hey, everybody. Hey. You got this five. It's okay.

It's all right. The other man. The other man. So I'm actually not the surprise guest. In my ongoing, that was an old joke. Yeah, by the way, that was, and just to you know, he's a better kisser. So, but this is just likely, like you, you criticize when you don't come up with, you're not, that's not that helpful. Who would you have to talk about this?

Well, anybody but you for first. Okay. Because, you know, you're frequently wrong, but never in doubt. But I, you know, I wanted to bring you a special surprise just to show, as always, I am the top and you are the bottom. And so I programmed your very special guest, and I thought, who, who, who could I bring, who knows something about Iran and about Ukraine and about the entire world. So I would like to introduce the author of Project 2029, I hope, the most badass woman I know, someone who probably should have been president, Secretary Hillary Clinton.

All right. We will now hear actually what's happening Iran, and my work is done. I maintain the hegemony over Scott Galloway. Have a great time. Thank you, Kara Swisher. Yeah, she asked me to meet her here. Oh, that Kara, you know all about that. Well, this is shocking, exciting.

I can't really believe it, and we're so glad to have you here. Thank you for joining us. Scott, I'm going to let you bust into our first question here. And then we'll get into our conversation. Thank you so much for being with our secretary. Absolutely. Glad to be with you. Yeah, welcome.

So you have a lot of experience in the region. Set the table, what do you think is going on in the quote-unquote war room right now? And do you think we're close to some sort of agreement? Well, I think, number one, this was so ill-conceived and even more poorly executed in terms of any outcome that is going to, to restrain Iran, enhance our security, and our other interests, particularly our economic interests. You know, I was stunned when reporting started coming out about conversations in the White House because in, you know, the years I was on the Senate Armed Services Committee and I was Secretary of State. any time we talked about Iran, any kind of war game scenario that we discussed, among the very

first questions was, what if they closed the Strait of Hormuz? What do we do? And then from the reporting, it sounded as though that just hadn't been really discussed, or at least not brought to the highest levels of the administration. And I think now, sadly, and I I really do say this with a lot of regret because this should be an American issue that we have to deal with together, not a partisan issue. I think we are in a weakened position. I think Iran is in a stronger position than it was before we did this. I actually approved of the strikes on the nuclear facilities back in June a year ago. they had a clear objective, they were carried out effectively.

They didn't accomplish all that they claim, but they did accomplish enough to argue that the nuclear weapons program was set back. But now, I think the Iranians are really playing a stronger hand vis-a-vis Trump. And he's kind of flummox. He doesn't know what to do. I mean, on his truth, socially, talks about how He doesn't find it interesting pursuing these peace negotiations. He's bored by it.

And, you know, when you think about the hard work of both waging war and everything that it entails and then trying to extricate yourself from a conflict with some sort of advantage, that's really hard work and that's not being done. So I can't tell at this point what. to where we're going to be in a week or two or three. But if we end up, number one, where the Iranians control the Strait of Hormuz and are actually, you know, exacting tolls from commercial shipping, if we don't get any kind of realistic agreement, certainly not one better than the one I worked on when I worked with President Obama and started the negotiations that led to the

agreement. And if we don't really have evidence that we have seriously damaged their ballistic missile and other drone capability, then what have we gained? And it just will further weaken us. And if you're sitting in Moscow or you're sitting in Beijing and you're following this, you are, you know, just first of all probably dumbstruck that any American president would do this because I know from my own experience we were often urged to do it but did not for all kinds of reasons and I really worry about not just what it means for the relationship in the region and specifically what Iran can continue to do but what messages it sends to everybody else so I guess my bottom line would be that that, and I don't think this would happen, it would be extremely reassuring if we had a real team of

negotiators who knew enough about what needed to happen with Iran, and they had the patience and the discipline, and could drive a very strong argument as to why Iran would suffer consequences if they didn't reach an agreement. But Iran is not only on the ground stronger, but Iran is not only on the ground stronger, but they're playing a really effective social media game. I don't know if you've seen their Mr. Explosive, the explosive Lego character that they are using that is all over social media. And it is just mocking us. And it's not just mocking our current president, it's mocking our country. So I would like to see a serious, dedicated effort to try to actually get as much out of this unfortunate situation that we could right now.

But you'd have to create, if there's a deal to be had, you need leverage. Yes. How would you, what would be your strategy for coordinating with allies or economic sanctions? Let's assume that someone were to call you and say, okay, we broke it. Can you help us fix it? How does America gain the type of leverage it needs to in some way declare victory and leave, if you will? Well, I can give you an analogy from my own experience. When I started the secret negotiations that tested whether we could negotiate with Iran, I did it through the good offices of the Omani government, the then-Sultana of Oman.

And Oman, as you know, was on the other side of the strait. We have leverage with Oman. We have unfortunately misused it, but we have leverage. And the other argument I made, which ended up getting a U.N. Security Council resolution imposing universal sanctions was to make the case, particularly to China and to India, that there will be a price to pay if you don't help us reign in Iran. Our goal is to prevent them from ever getting a nuclear weapon arsenal. So you have to demonstrate, you know, real allegiance to that idea,

because if we launch a nuclear arms race in the Middle East, that is not good for any of us. And I think that kind of tough diplomacy, none of which I heard comes. coming out of the recent meeting that Trump had with Xi Jinping would lead to putting together a coalition of, you know, diplomatic support for exercising leverage with the Gulf states, with China in a way that makes it very clear, we may have given that away, but if we could rebuild it to basically say, you know, we want to get back to free navigable waters in the straight that's in your interest. You're the one who's buying most of that oil. You've got to weigh in. You could look at this and see all the different players who have their own individual leverage

and then aggregate that and begin to put it together. It doesn't happen overnight. It would be painstaking diplomacy, but it could be done if we had the right approach. Something that doesn't seem to get a lot of media coverage, but you could argue it's really a wonderful thing for the West, is that it feels as if in the last eight or 12 weeks, Ukraine has gone from playing defense to offense. Can you talk a little bit about the war there and what it means for the West? Look, I think it means the difference between a peaceful, secure Europe

and what that means for a peaceful, secure United States and a further opening of a door to Russian aggression, if we are not on Ukraine's side. It is one of the great tragedies of modern history that we have a president who doesn't support the Ukrainian people. But the Ukrainian people have demonstrated through their own sacrifice how worthy they are of everybody's support. And what they have done in building up their own military, industrial complex in the midst of a war is nothing short of remarkable. I mean, the only thing I can think of, Scott, that is even comparable. is when the blitz started against Great Britain, you know, when the Luftwaffe planes were, you know, bombing the heck out of London and other sites, you know, Britain was not prepared.

They didn't have the kind of air force to fight back. But boy, did they put it on a fast burner. And pretty soon, you know, within months, they were, you know, sending up fleets of, you know, airplanes to do battle with the German aircraft. Well, what the Ukrainians have done is certainly the help that they got since they were first invaded in February of 2022. They put to very good use. But then they quickly realized that they had to be as self-reliant as possible. So what they have pioneered with drone technology in particular is the new form of warfare. And we all should be learning. In fact, you know, Zelensky went to the Middle East.

He went to the Gulf states. He went to Saudi Arabia and the UAE and others to give them support when they were all of a sudden being attacked by the same kind of drones that Iran had sold to Russia. And those drones were being used against Ukraine. Now they were being used by Iran against the Gulf states. So we all should be expressing a great debt to Ukraine for, number one, holding out. And number two, demonstrating what modern warfare is going to evolve, whether people are ready for it or not. But number three, and most importantly, they have held the Russians at bay.

Now, if you're running a country the way Putin is, and you could care less, how many of your, you know, young men are killed in battle, and he doesn't care. And he's emptied the jails, and he's, you know, dragoon people off the streets. And he's, you know, given bonuses to people and, you know, men in Africa to come fight who didn't know what they were doing. And he's taken North Korean troops. He has thrown everything he knows to throw against the Ukrainians. And the Ukrainians have held the line, and, you know, it's like a back and forth, almost World War I situation where it's a, you know, a couple of feet here, a couple of feet there.

But now, because of Ukraine's own development of weapons, particularly missiles and more advanced drones, they are starting to hit sites within Russia and not just border sites, but, you know, much further. So I think that now is a time, and I'm glad to see, you know, Europe is stepping up. I think that Ukraine, partly because of what they offered and delivered to the Gulf states, including trainers, to show them how to use these drones, how to defend against the Iranian drones. I think that Ukraine can withstand this barrage, you know, this constant nightly aiming at civilian targets, again, like the Blitz. These are not military targets. These are civilian targets. And Russia and Putin need to be defeated.

And Ukraine is on the front line of doing that. And we all should do everything we can to help them succeed. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Odu. Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other? One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for account. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business.

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It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it is easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process. So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try O-D-for-free at O-D-O-D-O-O-O-com. Who is actually winning the war between Russia and Ukraine? Right now it's clear that Ukraine is much more confident. Time now looks increasing on Ukraine's side,

and there's no obvious reasons for them to negotiate a ceasefire in the near term just because the United States or somebody else wants it. I'm John Feiner. And I'm Jake Sullivan, and we're the hosts of The Long Game, a weekly national security podcast. This week, we discussed the war in Ukraine with Michael Kaufman, one of the leading analysts of the conflict who recently returned from the front lines. The episode's out now.

Search for and follow The Longer. long game wherever you get your podcasts. Have we underestimated the damage Trump has done? It's easy perhaps to chuckle at a Donald Trump. There are times when he's sort of campy. I think there are things that he does, you know, his little dance and some of the other kinds of things to come across as a rascal. But I think we have to look under those things at the real harm he has done to

American institutions and the rule of law. I'm Preet Barrara, and this week, former U.S. Attorney Barb McClure. joins me to discuss this administration's mob-style governance and corruption. The episode is out now. Search and follow. Stay tuned with Preet, wherever you get your podcasts. We're back with Profi Markets. We are here in New York, which is the center of capitalism, the center of Wall Street. And yet we also just elected a mayor who describes himself as a democratic socialist.

And what we've seen among young people, among Gen Z, my generation, is that interest in socialism, belief in socialism, alternatives to capitalism, that is on the rise in America right now. I'd just love to get your views on what do you make of Mamdani's election? And do you think it says something about the future of the Democratic Party and the future of progressivism in the United States? Well, first of all, I think he is a brilliant politician. I think he ran an absolutely superb modern campaign and caught the imagination of voters, as you say,

and particularly young voters. The day after the election, I didn't endorse anybody. I didn't get involved. You know, I certainly congratulated him and wished him well because I love New York. And I really, really want him to succeed. I don't care what label he puts on his politics or himself as long as he proves that his brand of politics works. Yeah.

That's what I'm interested in. I, you know, look, I am a very pragmatic person. I can look at somebody and say, prove to me, you know, show me that what you think will work to better people's lives, to, you know, create the investments we need to prosper together, to keep us secure, to give us opportunity to inspire young people, everything you want from good political leadership. I want to see that, and I see some of it, and the jury is out. I want to see what he can actually produce.

You know, Mario Cuomo famously said you campaign in poetry and you govern in prose. The campaign is fun. It's exciting. It's a roller coaster ride, having done a few myself, it's incredibly exhilarating, and either works or it doesn't, but nevertheless. And so then the hard work starts. I mean, you just work 24-7 to get yourself elected. And it's like, you know, the dog that catches the car.

And all of a sudden, you're like, okay, how am I going to actually govern? And I see some good things. A lot is still unclear. But I really hope for the sake of, you know, this city that I love and that I was proud to represent for. eight wonderful years that we really can see New York be a laboratory of democracy for if he wants to promote his policies prove them let's have proof of concept you know call yourself whatever you want but let's show that what you are standing for and implementing is actually going to work and and I am like that with you know people across the political lines you know if you have a good

idea I want to hear it and I don't really care you know where it comes from But I do think there's a cautionary lesson, you know, don't govern to your base. Trump has governed to his base and he's driving, you know, a stake through the heart of American democracy. He's undermining the, you know, the incredible engine of the American economy, in my opinion. But he's satisfying the 35% of the people who are still with him, not others. And that doesn't work. It doesn't work in America.

And so broaden your aperture. Yes. Get a broader base of people because these are the people whose policies you are implementing are going to be affected by. My final question, we talk about a lot of economic issues on the show.

Some of our biggest themes are wealth and equality, housing prices and housing policy, mental health, social media, loneliness. When you look at the United States in 2026, what are the issues in our nation that you are most concerned about today and what kinds of policies would you want to implement to start to resolve those issues?

Everything you just said, I mean, obviously, and I would add our international position because I think it has an impact. And then I would also, you know, mention, you know, what I consider to be the two overriding themes, affordability and accountability. How do you make life affordable

for particularly young people? Because it does seem to me that, you know, we've given them a really tough deal in terms of what they can expect and whether they can feel that their future is going to be, you know, better than their present. And certainly is it going to be better than their parents or their grandparents in terms of not just aspiration, but actual reality. But I honestly think that you've got to look, again, to the cities and the states. Right now, the federal government is broken. And a lot of what Trump has done has rendered it dysfunctional, you know, cleaning out experts who knew anything.

This Ebola epidemic, boy, I hope it doesn't get as bad as some of the folks whose opinions I respect say that it could in terms of its spread. But, you know, we got rid of our surveillance. We got rid of the infrastructure we had built over decades to be alerted to these kinds of things and act on them. So it's both international and national, but focusing just here at home, I want to see states and cities do a lot more. And let's see what a good housing policy in New York looks like.

Let's see what a good economic mobility plan from Illinois looks like. I know you guys were in Chicago with my friend J.B. Pritzker last night. Let's see what the states do to govern AI because the federal government isn't doing it. So let's turn back to laboratories of democracy, you know? So Democrats are feeling really good about the midterms. but I would never underestimate our ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. I know something about that, too. What advice would you have for the Democratic Party around messaging,

and do you see any, what are you optimistic about and what are you worried about in terms of them in terms? Well, before the tsunami of redistricting started at Trump's demand to Texas, I was extremely optimistic. I saw all of the ingredients for a big midterm win for Democrats. Obviously, what the states themselves did and then what Democratic states responded with And then what the Supreme Court did and what I view as a truly disgraceful decision throwing out the guts of the Voting Rights Act means that it will be harder, but I am still very optimistic. And the reason I'm very optimistic is, number one, if you look at the elections that have been held over the last year, Democrats have done really well. And not just, you know, the governor of New Jersey, the governor of, you know, Virginia, the redistricting voting. in places like California, but I mean, public service commissioners in Georgia and preserving

Supreme Court justices in Pennsylvania and getting really into the nitty gritty of who was winning and where those victories were happening. So I think that the underlying conditions are still very favorable. But I also think that you've got to stress these two big overriding themes, affordability and accountability. And I mentioned them both together because on affordability, I think a lot of people who voted for Trump actually thought that he cared enough about them to do something about affordability. And lo and behold, that was not the case. And so their disappointment or they're feeling that, wait a minute, you're doing stuff I didn't vote for and you're not paying attention to what I need. And now you're starting a

war that has already raised gas prices, and by the time we get done with fertilizer and supply chain disruption and everything else, is going to cost all of us more. So I think that on the affordability issue, the Democrats have a pretty wide open door. And I think, again, what you say and how you say it may differ from district to district and state to state. And it's not a national campaign exactly, although you need a national umbrella message. like a presidential campaign is. So when you're running to defeat a Republican incumbent in a purple swing district,

you're not going to say the same thing that somebody who is running in a deep blue district is going to say. And you just have to accept that. That's the way politics works when you're running for the midterms. You've got to make your case in language that your voters will agree with.

And then on the accountability issue, I just want to say a quick word about the Hungarian election, because I think there's a real lesson to be learned. So other opposition parties and leaders tried to, you know, defeat Orban over a couple of election cycles and were unsuccessful. So what made it different this time was not only a charismatic, effective, really hard-working candidate with Madjar, who was a truly dedicated, opposition figure having come out of Orban's party, but he was able to tie the corruption of the Orban

government to the lives of the Hungarian people. I mean, when you look at the explosion of corruption in this administration, you know, I know some people have a tendency to say, ah, you know, they're all politicians, whatever. And that's not true, but I can understand why people might think that. but with Trump, it's corruption that is hurting people. You know, because while war is being waged in Iran, members of his family are making money from some of the very same interests and parties involved in this war. While you have the very clear economic disparities

and the wealth inequality exploding because of the big, beautiful bill that they passed, you know, all of a sudden people are feeling like, wait a minute, what is happening to me and my family compared to, you know, the top one-tenth of 1%. So I think that there is a lot of correlation between the corruption and the accountability that needs to be expected, not in a partisan way, not in a using prosecution to settle personal grievance way, but in a rule of law way. If we do not restore the rule of law, and I was so encouraged to see that the pushback on this terrible grievance fund that they were setting up

to reward people like the January 6th instigators. And so there is finally a kind of recognition that the corruption personally benefits the president and his family rewards people who committed crimes and really went after our democracy as well as all the other, you know, things that they did. That is encouraging. And so I really think the messaging needs to be focused on what we're going to do to actually help people and solve some of these problems and what we're going to do to restore the rule of law. And so I am optimistic as long as people turn out and vote. That's always the big question. So there were several people with earpieces who looked like they were ready and willing to kill me.

That said, you have 20 minutes and you got to get into your next game. Before we let you go, Secretary Clinton, I just want to put an image up. Do we have the image? So this is me in 2016. I've only gone door to door for one person. Oh, wow. That's me and every other Democrat in West El-ray. So all eight of us.

We're knocking on doors trying to get people to show up. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Wow. Thank you. So it is. You know, my wish for the nation is that character and competence makes a comeback.

Really appreciate your service, Secretary Clinton. Thank you. Thank you so much, Scott. Appreciate both of you. Secretary Hillary Clinton. Stay with us. We're back with Prof. G.

Marker. So this is a show, as you all know, about the markets, which sit at the center of almost every part of our lives. We created this show. It's getting on close to four years now, which is crazy, with a simple goal to help people better understand how markets work. But it is getting harder to do that at a time when faith in the system itself is starting to erode.

Only 54% of Americans today say that they have a positive view of capitalism, which is the system that runs markets, and it's increasingly not hard to understand why. Over the past few months, we have seen repeated evidence that markets may not be truly fair and transparent. President Trump recently disclosed more than 3,700 trades in American companies

during the first quarter, most of which were made before he revealed these key developments related to the companies. Millions of dollars of unusually well-timed trades were also made right before he made, major announcements related to Iran, related to Venezuela, related to the tariffs and liberation day, much, much more. In some, as Secretary Clinton pointed out, insider trading in this administration, at least, is alive and well. So tonight, we wanted to speak with someone who is

uniquely qualified to answer the questions many are asking right now. Why should ordinary investors believe in the markets when it feels as if they're rigged? As the founder and managing partner of Skybridge Capital. He spent decades navigating markets and helping investors make sense to them. He famously served in the Trump administration and has since become one of the president's most outspoken credits. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage. Our very good friend, Anthony Scaramucci is wearing the hat. We love it. I hope I get a chance to keep it. That's fair. Okay, I got Nixon five. Okay, that's my bet. Nixon five. That's good. How you doing, I'm doing great.

I thought the secretary was on point. Is she running? If she's running, I'll knock on doors with you. How about that? I'll go out there. I've done that once or twice before. I find that pretty much anyone who agrees to come on my podcast is running for president. Hey, I'm really...

The question is when are you running out of? I'm really... Yeah, when are you running? I'm just running for re-election of my marriage, by the way. I'm running for president. Anyway, all right, good. I mean, I... And by the way, I could be term-limited in marriage.

You've got to be careful. You know, it's a constant campaign. All right, but go ahead. You don't have to worry about that. Scott and I have got it. Scott and I have had that experience. Early voting is pretty ugly. The polls weren't great a few years ago, let's face it.

All right, go ahead. So, Murch, I want to just review some of the corruption that we've talked about, these 3,700 trades. You and I talked about this on a show a few weeks ago, but I just want to make sure that we're all on the same page and that we're not in belief that, I don't know, that I have some sort of Trump derangement syndrome or something. I just want to go through what we have actually seen in the last few months.

So Trump made 3,700 trades in the first quarter. He bought Oracle right before he finalized a deal for Oracle to buy TikTok. He bought Nvidia right before he approved Nvidia to sell chips to China. He bought Dell right before Dell signed a $10 billion contract with the Pentagon. Dell stock is ripping right now. His sons invested in these drone companies right before they also signed contracts with the Pentagon and right before we went to war. He made almost a billion dollars selling crypto.

His family has made an estimated $2.5 billion since he took office. Do you think it would be fair to call this the most corrupt administration we've seen? And if so, what does it mean for investors? I mean, listen, there's a lot there. So obviously it's a very corrupt thing that they're doing. you could go back through our history the Teapot Dome scandal was very similar also very corrupt

and what they're doing and Trump said this I don't know if anybody caught this but he was outside in a press gaggle as he was going to the helicopter and somebody called him out on and that almost similar to what you were saying

but what you're doing is unfair he looked at the people said well first of all I have the right to do it it's questionable whether he does or not but there is a scene there which I can share with you. And then the second thing he said is it's peanuts. He always says that. Like it's not that much money of one or two billion dollars. But that's what he said. Okay. And then the third thing that he said, which should scare everybody in the room and it has to get you awake and you have to get

motivated on this, he said, and I quote, and people don't care. Okay. And what they're doing in Washington is they're using our collective apathy as permission to do certain things. So if HECSeth is going to fire John Phelan as an example, he goes to Phelan and says, hey, I want to build these ships, we've got to build them super fast. Trump wants to build them super fast. And Phelan says, well, the law requires me to put the bid out, the three or four vendors and get the low cost bid. And then HECS says, no, no, no, I want you to put it out to one bidder. because that's going to expedite the process, and probably there is a little bit of a Vig going to Trump

and his family members in that bid. And Phelan says no, and then failing gets fired. You see what I'm saying? And, again, general apathy about the whole thing. So, yes, it's very, very corrupt, but if the people in this room don't get motivated and people around the country do not get motivated and say, we've had enough, it's sort of like networks,

Scott and I were old enough to remember Network. Remember I'm mad as hell? I know what you're talking about. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. That's the messaging, okay? But I want to talk about something people should understand. 60 minutes is in the news right now. In 2011, 15 short years ago, 60 minutes did a special on congressional insider trading.

And Peter Schweitzer had actually wrote a book about this whole thing. And they voted to negate congressional insider trading. And there was an eight-month period of time where the Congress could not participate in insider trading. And you know what they did, guys? They went by voice vote, so they would be off of C-SPAN, and they did a voice vote into the telephones, and they voted it back in. Yeah. Okay. And so people don't remember this, because again, they did it on the sly. And I'm going to tell you, the silver line of all this. Trump has been so wildly egregious that maybe this will now be the opportunity where people will take everything that he's doing. And, I'm going,

and say, okay, he broke every Norman standard. So now let's codify the country to protect the next person that takes that job. And that's what you've got to hope, whether it's, honestly, you've got to hope that, whether it's Secretary Clinton, if she becomes president in 2008, Pritzker, Gavin,

pick the person that becomes president, you've got to hope and pray that that person is a transformational, and in some ways, postpartisan leader, where they say, okay, it's not going to be left or right. It's going to be what's right or wrong for the country. And these were norms and standards that were adhered to from George Washington up until Barack Obama,

and then for a four-year period of time, Joe Biden. And he came in with like an orange wrecking ball and smash these. Okay? And so we're going to repair them first before we do anything else. I think that's necessary. And recognize that is happening on both sides. And, you and I have talked about this. I mean, the Pelosi index has been absolutely crushing in recent years. Perhaps the only index doing better is the Trump index. Listen, I got a couple billion under management. I can't beat Nancy Pelosi. I got buddies that got 70 billion under management, 25 offices, getting their asses kicked by Nancy. Okay. I mean, you got to just, I mean, it's unbelievable. A small investing mind. I just want to point out one statistic. You point out how the American people,

Trump says, the American people don't care. This was a, some survey data that I cited in Miami that just really struck me. They did a poll. They asked Trump voters about this issue. Half of Trump voters think that Trump hasn't profited in this presidency whatsoever. They genuinely believe this, that he hasn't made a dime. And, you know, I've gone through the data. You can either say that the data's fake news. You can say it's a lie, whatever you want to think. I mean, I guess my question to you, is it a problem of we're not talking about it enough or people don't want to hear it or I guess, as Trump says himself, people just don't really care? It's all those things. But again, it's, you know, you've got it, you're under your crowd, this audience here, us, I would say we're high information voters. We're consuming the information. We're looking for the information. Right.

average American is not doing that. On the 4th of November, 2024, the evening of the election, November 50 being the election, the most searchable term was, did Joe Biden drop out? And so I just want you to think about that. The average American coming home tired, maybe blue-collar worker, okay, I'm going to go vote tomorrow. My union needs me to go vote. Who the hell is running?

Biden's the president, right? Oh, wait a minute. who's oh wait did joe byden drop out okay so i just want to give you a sense for where the country is right okay and by the way you can like or dislike donald trump we've got to talk honestly he went into those territories of the country he went in there with his maga hats he went in there with his uh ymca song and all the different things that he did and uh so we laugh about it but they show up for it okay and i will tell you that the democrats party that I grew up with here in the city of New York.

You know, Secretary Clinton mentioned Mario Cuomo. Obviously, my family knew his family. Lyndon Johnson, Jack Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, they were focused on those people. They went into those towns and said, we're going to make your lives better, and we're going to do that. And, you know, people are not going to like this, but I want to share this with you because I want to leave this with you.

Do you only remember one thing I say tonight? remember this, and it doesn't reflect well on me. When I was with Donald Trump, I went to New Mexico with him in May of 2016, and I went into the Albuquerque Civic Center, and he had Secret Service with him, and so we had to wear these day pins, and I said to the Secret Service guy, what is this, sir? He said, well, if the shooting starts, we know you're with us, we won't shoot at you. I'm like, going to like this with the pin.

I took the pin off, I crossed the security perimeter, and I went into the crowd. And I started asking people why they were there. And one young gentleman said to me, well, you know, my father was at a factory for 30 years. I was working there for 12. They closed the factory. Anthony, you think you're in New Mexico? Well, no.

New New Mexico? That would be Mexico, because that's where the factory went to. I'm out of a job. I'm working at Lowe's, the Home Improvement Center, delivering pizza at night. And I got hit in the head with a rock because I grew up. My dad was a crane operator. My mom was a makeup artist. I'm Mac 5.

That's my color scheme. Anybody wants to get me a Christmas gift? Okay. Scott's a little lighter than me in case you know. Okay, probably six. But anyway, I looked at that young man and I said, so what should we do? He said, well, I don't know. But we were once blue collar economically aspirational.

And today, we are now blue-collar economically desperation. And guys, I missed it, okay? Because I went to Tufts and Harvard. I grew up in a blue-collar family, but I started to pick up the collective biases of the people that I was hanging out with. So I went to Goldman Sachs, and I was in the salons of the wealthy, and I built a hedge fund. And I missed what was going on in a very large portion of America.

and I just insist that everybody think about this and wherever the presidential candidates are, he or she, you've got to go and meet these people and you have to accept these people and embrace these people and try to bring them back into the system. I think it's very, very important for us to do that. And I'll just tell you, I missed it, Scott.

And when you go to those places, you'll be sad. You'll be like, okay, you know, people feel a sense of economic desperation, you know, What the secretary didn't mention, because you probably didn't have enough time, we're going to take 17 million people off the health care scrolls. Right after the midterms, they did it. Think about the pathology of that and the premeditation. The SNAP benefits, you know, I work alongside of Civi Hardiv's. Maybe you guys have heard of it.

It's one of the largest food banks in the country. We have over a million people. It's out in Brooklyn. My wife and I were there on Friday, talking about the organizational structure and how we can raise more money. You have 1.2 million people in this city. Think about this city and the glory of this city. We have 1.2 million people in this city that are food insecure. Over half of them are children. Okay, we also know when we go into the schools, we go into the public schools and you say to the kid, well, why are you doing well? And you know what the kids say?

I'm hungry. I'm starving. You know, I can't think about the lesson because I got to the school hungry and we're slashing all those food programs. Now, again, in New York, we're not. Hockel held the line on that. Mondani held a line on that. You were talking about the popularity of socialism for a second. If we don't figure out ways to create a bigger platform of equal opportunity in the country, you're going to lose the capitalism because, you know, I'm okay with the unequal outcomes, but you better get some sense of fairness going no matter who's born into whose family and what the zip codes are, because if we don't do that, you're going to lose the structure that has made the country so prosperous.

Let's double click on that, because you have kids, I have kids, and there's a lot of times when my boys think something, and I literally just want to grab them by the lapels and shake them and go, just trust me, you don't understand how stupid you're being. I need to have you to come over to my house. I need some help with that. I'm basically a pussy as a parent. But go ahead, keep going. Well, you realize, I talk a big game.

You realize that doesn't work. And I feel that way whenever I hear someone his age talking about socialism. And it's like, do you have any sense of history of how superior capitalism is a system in terms of generosity, creating tax revenue? leveraging the most powerful aspect of our species, and that is self-interest such that we can create the revenue to help the poor and lift them up. What, I mean, how do we get Gen Z and millennials? What is the messaging around, okay, you know, capitalism is,

what's going on now is not capitalism, it's cronyism. Yeah, we both know that. How would you communicate to someone that's younger than us? I'm Gen X. You're a baby boomer. You're much older than me. I actually am older than him, okay? Yes.

And he doesn't have any hair, but I'm dyeing my hair, okay? So this is Latin American Dictator Brown. If you go to the color, is that... Look at that hair. I was... Seriously, look at that hair. I was just letting you know. It's too good.

I was using Maduro Black until he got arrested. I think I better lighten it up a little bit. Okay, keep going, Scott. Go ahead. Yeah. What do you think the message is to young people around around capitalism being the worst system of its kind except for all the rest, as Churchill said?

Okay, so I would say a couple of things we've got to teach in our history. And one of the great books about this is H.W. Brands' book, The Trader to his class. And it's about the great aristocrat, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, who looked at the show. structure of the capitalism, some of the cronism that was going on, the rigging of the markets, guys. You know, Joe Kennedy made a fortune rigging the markets, lots of insider trading,

and he said, okay, what we need to do is we got to make it fairer. So if we regulate it, if we end the corruption, the Trump-like corruption, people think it's fairer. Number one, number two, if we provide some baseline help, Social Security, lots of the work projects that went on in the 1930s, and one of the greatest individuals, and one of the greatest, for middle class aspiration in the history of the world, the GI Bill, which was an accidental thing, guys. Okay. And so these GIs, you had Jews from East New York, Italians from Brooklyn, you had Irish guys

from Hell's Kitchen. They came back to New York. Their parents never went to college. And they now had this opportunity to go to college, and they went from blue-collar jobs and laboring-oriented jobs, the white-collar jobs. And so the message should be there's a harmony between the government and business. I'm all about capitalism.

I want there to be capitalism. We agree on that. But there has to be a regulated capitalism because greed in a society always overcomes wisdom. And what we find when you get an oligarchate-like figure, they'll create a funnel at the top, and they'll all sit around, and they'll spin the dial,

and they'll create wealth for themselves, and they'll leave everybody else behind. And so one of the great things about the structure of the government was its decentralization. You know, this is a Madisonian, Jeffersonian structure to protect every citizen and to endow you with your individual liberty, which gives you the right to execute the capitalism.

But when you are in a structure that is damaged like this, it needs to be reset. And I would go out to all these guys and talk about Roosevelt, talk about the Kennedys, talk about the Civil Rights Reformation in the 1960s. And I say, we're at our best when there is a harmony with the government where the government's helping the public schools, the government's helping to feed people, balance the system,

hand-check the super greedy, so that every person in the room can seek their aspiration. And so, again, I'm for unequal outcomes. You guys have done an amazing job with your podcast, all your great businesses. You should certainly have economic rent associated with that. These entrepreneurs should always benefit from that. But the flip side is I didn't pick the place that I was born.

I don't think you guys did either. This is a rich enough society, and this is a very generous culture. If you look at the philanthropy in the United States, we have to set the culture up so matter where you were born, you get a package of services, some food and some health care

and some basic education, that you can get to the starting block so that you can go up against people that have their family names endowed on libraries and stuff like that around the country. So speaking... So it's a history lesson in there as well as economics. Speaking of starting block, I want to move on from something

more important than the future of our country. I want to talk about upcoming tech IPOs. Just curious, your markets guy. Here's to get your take on anthropop... I'm $150 billion raised, $4 trillion valuation, SpaceX,

Anthropic Open AI. Just curious to get your thoughts about those IPOs and the respective valuations. Okay. Well, I've listened to Prop G, so I don't want to over be redundant to what you guys said about the S-1 for SpaceX, but obviously that business is not worth that kind of money. But let me say something as a market participant for 40 years. Elon Musk is a human meme. And if you understand what I mean by that, he is game stock or he is a he's a meme.

and so for whatever reason, there's always a B swarm of retail activity around the stuff that he's doing. And now we could agree with that or disagree with that. Certainly Cara, who left the stage a few minutes ago, doesn't agree with it. But if you got allocation in the IPO, $1.8 trillion, would you buy in?

Yes, I probably would, because I believe that he has a lot of execution gifts. And I said this, actually, I think I sub for you on Pivot when the S-1 was announced, and I said, listen, I fully disclosed. I own some SpaceX. I bought it a few years ago.

It's obviously up a lot in valuation. And so, yes, I would probably participate in the IPO because I think he is an execution-oriented guy that would figure it out. Anthropics is a totally different beast. There's a difference between execution and rah-rah and figuring out a way to create a meme stock out of something going out at 100 times revenues.

But you think there's execution. that can backfill that kind of valuation? Well, he did it once before in Tesla, and I watched the hedge fund manager buddies of mine get their faces ripped off in Tesla. And if we were sitting up here 10 years ago and we went through that S-1, it actually looked worse on a comparative basis to SpaceX.

So I guess what I would say to you, the paradigm has shifted in the markets, and you have to sort of see that. John Maynard-Kane said, something way better than me, so I'll paraphrase it. And John Maynard came as a brilliant stock market speculator. And he said, you know, I'm one of the judges at a beauty contest, but it's not for me to judge beauty. It's for me to think about what the other judges think are beautiful. Yes. And once I figure out what that is, that's why I'm going to make my selection.

And it's a way to think about the markets. And so I may not agree with the beauty of SpaceX, but when I talk to my hedge fund manager friends, my institutional investors, My former, I used to work at Goldman, investment bankers at Goldman pricing the deal. I'm like, okay, this will have some buoyancy to it, it'll have a leg up on others. And so I don't want to, certainly wouldn't be short it. Let me put it that way. I've seen people really get hurt shorting assets like that, even though they look fundamentally inferior. Along those lines, it's really interesting you bring up the Keynesian beauty contest, which I also love.

But that also seems to be a little bit of a signal of a, a bubble. What's that? What was it? I just said Princeton. I don't know. Princeton. That seems to be a little bit of a signal of a bubble. The idea that you're, it's not that you find the product or the company beautiful, but everyone else does. And if everyone else does, then maybe I should too. And I think the other, the thing that people are probably getting worried about when it comes to these IPOs, I mean, you don't have to buy SpaceX if you don't want to, if you think the fundamentals aren't in shape. And so, you know, I'm not going to buy it. But they're changing the rules for the index funds, specifically the NASDAQ,

so that SpaceX automatically does go into these passive index funds. So what they're going to do is they're calling it fast entry rules for these mega cap companies, essentially rewriting the rules of passive investing so that you can invest immediately in SpaceX, in Anthropic, in Open AI. And that gets to a point where now we actually don't have a choice, whether I think it's a good company or not. if I own the NASDAQ and even the S&P is considering rewriting their profitability rules in order to include SpaceX, you have to own it anyway. That seems to be a concern. And it goes back again to this idea where we talk about the markets seem to be, the rules of the game seem to be rigged. We seem to be kind of shifting the rules around what Trump wants or around what Elon wants.

He's the one who pushed for this with the NASDAQ. Are you concerned about that at all from a passive investor? Okay. So this is, first of all, it's great analysis. but let me provide some historical consequences. I think this is important. We had something called Sarbanes-Oxley. I think you guys would remember that.

It was an extra regulatory process. It created a tremendous burden on private companies if they were to go public. Then we had the global financial crisis, added another layer. And ladies and gentlemen, if you go back, something like SpaceX would have gone public with a $300 billion market cap

or $150 billion market cap, under a different regulatory rubric. But what happened is because it was so difficult to go public under the current regulations, the retail participants, unfortunately, were left out of it. Yes. Okay, and I think there was an unfairness to that. And if I were, not that I would ever be the SEC chairman,

but I would say to people, we've got to be very careful to over-regulate because we want to make sure that the retail investors have an opportunity to participate in these things. So all of these things from a 40-year perspective, of the markets, as long as I've been in the markets, they're coming public too late, and they're coming public with these very high valuations,

which is unfair to the retail investor. So now, think about it this way, the company's already a trillion-dollar company. Okay, and so what should have happened, it should work public at 150, the rules would have applied. It got itself to a trillion, and then it entered. You see what I'm saying?

100%. So I'm just saying to you, I see both sides of it. I would have argued against it. I would have said, no, the rules have to stay, and they have to not be in, they can't get fast-tracked into the S&P. But Ed, and ladies and gentlemen,

Ed just proved my point why I want to be a part of it. Because let me tell you what happens in our society. If it goes in the S&P, all the institutions, all the 401Ks, all the people that buy the S&P, guess what happens? They buy it. Yep. And you'll be stepping.

in front of a freight train. You'll be trying to pick up a penny in front of a steamroller. So I can't live in a society the way I want it. I've accepted that, you know, I tell my kids, hey, you want to curse, we're cursors. I'm an Italian from Long Island. Okay, but there are two words, you know, and I got fired from the White House for fucking cursing. Can you believe that in the Trump White House? Can you fucking believe that? I mean, come on. I somehow forgot about that. All right. I think you're being I think you got fired for other reasons. But I did, I actually, I actually did get fired for way more other reasons, but, you know, you guys don't have the time for all those reasons.

And, you know, I tell my therapist that shit. But anyway, let me, but I just, I just want to make this point, okay? And I want you guys to think about this. The two words that are the worst words are should and ought. I tell my kids, you start with that stuff. I'm going to cut you right down. You know, the world should be a certain way. I ought to have gotten a 36 on the ACT, and I ought to have gotten into Princeton.

You know what? The world does not work that way. Life is unfair. You have to deal with the world the way it is and not play the victim. These rules suck. I think it's wrong to do it. But now I'm sitting at the turret. I've got investors that I've got my own money that I've got to worry about,

and I have to look at the world the way it's. is. Now, I can try to reform it. I can try to speak out against it. I can try to give money to politicians or knock on doors for politicians that will try to make the world better. But you've got to be very, very careful in this world as an investor and never use the words ought and should because you're going to get yourself in a lot of trouble because we do not live in a normalized world. We live in a real world. So just as we wrap up here. Sorry. It deserves to be booed, by the way. By the way, when you boo, all I hear is mooch, by the way. Yeah, mooch.

That's all I hear. Just as we wrap up here, I have this. Do I get to keep the hat? Yeah, that's yours. Fantastic. If I had your hair, I'd be fucking share. I'd grow it down to here. Just as we wrap up here, we talk a lot about,

I'm part of this Reddit group or in the Zoom group where we talk about brands that accelerate or decelerate. Papacy, way up and brand equity, Ferrari way down with that abomination. that tech is now infected Ferrari. But we talk about people whose brands have gone up and gone down. Yeah. And I argued,

or I was making the point, that I think you have registered from a few years ago the greatest brand accretion of almost any individual I know. Thank you. Because you were... Couldn't have gone any fucking lower

than I was, actually. You're in the fucking basement of the town hall, by the way. That's fine. All right, go ahead. But the lesson I want you to, or what you want to talk about, for people who are,

quite frankly, find themselves in a position where the brand just isn't very strong. Can you share kind of that moment and any lessons for how to come back? Because I'm very, very serious. Your brand is skyrocketed. Well, first of all, it's very sweet to you, Scott. You know, I love you. And if I had your height, the world would have been a way better place. But let me just tell you something.

For all you sure people out there like me, we have more oxygen down here. Just remember that. I guess. Too thin the auction. See, I look at your hair, and I think I'd be polling number two behind Newsom. Well, I'm going to set this scene for you. I know we have to go, but I want to take you to one of the worst days of my life. Okay, you ready? It was Monday, July 31st, 2017. Do you guys want to know how I knew I got fired? Do you want to know? They issue you a White House bat phone. This is an, you know, impregnated, coder. You can't get spyware into the phone.

You're supposed to only contact cabinet members and other White House staff with that phone. Of course, Pete Hexas didn't get the message. He was using WhatsApp. I got the phone. And on that Monday, when I turned the phone on, it wasn't working. They had cut my air supply at 6 a.m. So I knew I was getting fired.

And I got fired at 9.30. But I want to set the day for you. I'm fired from the White House after 11 days. You can say, you can say 954,000 seconds. Sometimes that makes me feel better. My wife is sore at me, okay? My wife hates Donald Trump almost as much as Melania hates someone. I'm talking to that side.

That is like some Eastern European ancestral motherfucking hatred. Okay, you know what I'm talking about, okay? So my wife hates some. She filed for divorce on me. I'm not making this up. Okay, guys, on the 24th of July, I missed the birth of my son. Okay, that's a true story. I was in West Virginia with the president.

Deirdre and I were fighting, but I was scheduled to be at the birth. He was due on August 8th, maybe the stress of the whole situation. She gave birth early. There's a 60-mile no-fly zone around Air Force 1. I was 70 miles out in the woods at the Boy Scouts summer camp where Trump was making a speech. Scott, there was no way back to New York.

Okay, guys, everything was going badly. And if you ever need to pick me up and it's not cancer, call me, okay? Because I was having a really shitty day compared to what could happen to you. So I'm now fired. I've got to repair my marriage. I've got to heal the situation

by missing the birth of my son. I've got to face the music from the late-night comedians. I mean, you know, Colbert called me a Jersey Shore cast member. I think, I think, I mean, it's fucking funny. You can laugh at it. Okay, I thought it was funny. Pretty good. Bill Maher, a show you and I have been on many times.

I think he said it was Tony Soprano on the Potomac. I mean, he was getting hit. I was getting hit every which way. And I think, you know, they were really lighting me up on Saturday. live. Somebody called me human cocaine. It was like, really bad. Anyway, anyway, now I got to repair this, okay? I go to see this like PR crisis management person. And you know the guy who says to me, he says, look, man, this is terrible. You got some dough? Go buy a villa in Italy. We'll see you in five years. Okay, it's not, I mean,

you're never going to recover from this. Come back to the country in 2022. Okay, and I want to leave you with a couple of thoughts. Okay. I went right on. the Colbert show. Okay? I went out to Bill Moore. I faced the music of Saturday Night. I went back on television. I met Scott Galloway and Ed Elson, and I faced the music and I can take you through the mistakes I made. And it's nine years later. My son is turning nine on the fourth of July 24th. My marriage is still intact. Name of the father, son, and the holy ghost. I, you know, thank God. Okay. And we're probably stronger than ever because we were able to not make our relationship disposable. So if you're going through something and you're in this

audience and you've got some angst going on, stay in it. Don't walk away from it, care less about what other people think, get focused on the things that really matter. And that firing as hard as it was on me, it made me more psychologically minded, it made me more empathetic. And you probably wouldn't even know who the hell I was, okay, if that didn't happen. And I certainly wouldn't have these two great friends in mine, which I'm very grateful for. And I'll leave you with that.

Anthony Scaramucci. All right. This episode was produced by Prof G Media and Vox Media. Thank you for joining us live in New York. If you like what you heard, make sure you're following us on YouTube, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast.

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