Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Barry Richardson on investing in trust

Episode Date: October 15, 2021

Who do you trust, and who can you trust? In these troubled and challenging times, building trust is key to achieving sustainable success. And one of the best living examples of someone who exemplifies all of the rare qualities of trust and supportive leadership in a genuine, humble way is our guest Barry Richardson. Barry is one of those people that was brought up to believe that your word is your deed and that everything is signed and sealed by simply looking someone squarely in the eye and giving them a handshake. If Barry says he’s going to do something he does it, and he stays true to his principles and will walk away if someone tries to compromise them. He’s consistently true to himself and true to all of those around him. Barry, also known as ‘Bones’, is one of those rare wise men that speaks his truth quietly and humbly, but when he talks, you just stop and listen. He’s the embodiment of that old saying ‘that a wise man only talks when he has something to say, but a fool talks because he has to say something.’ I’ve been a massive fan of Barry’s since the 1960s during his glory days as a premiership VFL footballer for my team the mighty Richmond Tigers, and he went on to become the coach and then the club president - and there are very very few who have achieved this level of total accomplishment. So to set the scene so that you can appreciate the full spectrum of Barry Richardson’s incredible achievements, here’s a brief snapshot.  As an elite footballer he kicked 134 goals and played 125 games over nine seasons from 1965 to 1974 and won three premierships during the Richmond Tigers’ golden age (in 1967,69 & 74) when he played in Richmond’s first drought breaking and winning premiership for over 24 years. This was an amazing feat during the time when the game was yet to become professional and players were part time, holding down full time jobs and working careers in order to pay their way. Bones played during the rough and tough days of mud, blood and beer and was one of ‘Hafey’s Heroes’ when he was coached by the club’s team of the century coach, Tommy Hafey, who was famous for always saying ‘I’m sensational but getting better!’  These were the days when the coach led by example and Tommy was still doing a thousand sit ups a day and 200 pushups when he was well into his 70s, and this daily discipline has rubbed off on Barry who still keeps himself fit at a similar age. Two years after retiring from playing, Bones won the difficult job of coach of the Richmond Tigers, which was a big ask, taking over from the legendary Tommy Hafey and being in charge of many of his former team mates at just 30 years of age. Many commended Barry for his inclusive, trusting approach that was way ahead of the time. This was a cut throat era in the game, when the instant pressure to perform from the ferocious and impatient Tiger Army, created a mistrusting environment where the Tigers administration would constantly eat their young by only offering coaches one year contracts and then regularly sacking them. So Barry lasted two seasons as coach, which was more than most during this revolving door period. This was an environment where the pressure to perform created an endemic culture of mistrust that led to Richmond’s lost years, going without a premiership for another 34 years. But on the strength of his always trustworthy and dependable approach, Barry was far from done in the corridors of football, joining the Melbourne Demons in 1981 as Chairman of Selectors, before returning to Richmond in the haloed position of Club President for a year. He resigned on principle, when his handshake deal with the then coach was overturned by the administration.  His trustworthy, reliable approach was further rewarded when he then joined the West Coast Eagles, before spending time at Melbourne, Carlton and Geelong. And Barry’s high achievements weren’t restricted to football. Professionally, he was a pioneer of sports physiotherapy and he’s stayed at the forefront of his profession with a client list that includes the who’s who of world wide elite sport during those days, including legendary cricketer Dennis Lillee, AFL legend Ron Barassi, US tennis star Jimmy Connors and world famous ice skaters Torville and Dean. Barry is one of those rare individuals who has managed to balance the competing pressures of family, elite sport and his professional career as a sports physio. Throughout his personal, professional and sporting career, Barry’s cool, calm and collected demeanour engendered instant trust, respect and admiration from anyone who knew him, and he’s been described as versatile, valiant, valuable and victorious – which sums him up perfectly.  And the reason he reached the giddy heights of stardom and sustainable success both on and off the football field, and in his thriving business as a physio to the world’s greats, all comes down to his reliable, dependable trustworthiness and the respect this has engendered, and you’ll hear all about this in our great conversation today. Barry's book recommendation: The Last Of The Mohicans by James Fenimore Cooper Get ‘Self, Health and Wealth’ wisdom in your inbox: Join me and many other like minded investors in our Get Invested community right now.  I send a free and exclusive monthly email full of practical ‘Self, Health and Wealth’ wisdom that our current Freedom Fighter subscribers can’t wait to get each month. It’s full of investment and lifestyle tips, my personal book recommendations, apps I use to enhance life and so much more. Just visit bushymartin.com.au and sign up at the bottom of the page … because this is just the beginning! Get Invested is the leading weekly podcast for Australians who want to learn how to unlock their full ‘self, health and wealth’ potential. Hosted by Bushy Martin, an award winning property investor, founder, author and media commentator who is recognised as one of Australia’s most trusted experts in property, investment and lifestyle, Get Invested reveals the secrets of the high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and the world around them. Remember to subscribe on your favourite podcast player, and if you're enjoying the show please leave us a review. Find out more about Get Invested here https://bushymartin.com.au/get-invested-podcast/  Want to connect with Bushy? Get in touch here https://bushymartin.com.au/contact/  This show is produced by Apiro Media - http://apiropodcasts.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I do think in my life, really what I've tried to do is just do the best you can. Be the best footballer, be the best physiotherapist, be the best husband, be the whatever, and the rewards will come accordingly. So if you put it in a sporting parlance, focus on the process rather than the result. You know, that sort of kind of discipline permeates from the top down. Again, as you would know in what you do, you know, if you get your organisations right from the top, that whole thing kind of permeates through.

Totally. And the ultimate word there is respect, respect for everyone within the organisation from the bootstutter all the way through. Absolutely. Welcome to the Get Invested podcast, where we share great conversations with experts from all walks of life to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills, and their money, and the benefits that this has created.

You see, the truth is that everyone invests. Every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy, and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you to start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen, not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less, and leave a living legacy by investing now. Listen to the show to discover the top tips on how to get started,

make the most of your investment journey, and ultimately to be living your dream, not someone else's. More episodes can be found on iTunes or at bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. Thanks for listening, and now, let's get invested. Hi, Freedom Fighters. Who do you respect and admire? I mean really respect

And who do you trust? Who can you trust? What does respect and trust even mean in our current day and age? Because I think we're living in a world with a huge absence of both A total lack of trust that leads to a total lack of respect You only need to turn to our mainstream media headlines to pick up the endemic nature of this common thread. They're dominated by questioning distrust.

Do you trust our politicians, our government, our big corporations and big businesses, our banks, our churches and our priests? And can we trust the media? And do you trust yourself? Time and time again, our trust in our major organisations has been broken. According to an article in The Conversation, around the world democracies are

distrusted by a majority of their citizens. A recent Edelman Trust barometer puts the figure at about 80% and Australia's leading organisations including government, business, non-government organisations and the media amongst the least trusted in the world. Australians are clearly deeply unhappy with democratic politics, with fewer than 41% of Australian citizens being satisfied with the way democracy works in Australia, down from 86% in 2007. That's halved in that time. Public satisfaction has fallen particularly sharply since 2013 when 72% of Australian citizens were satisfied. And it's important to note that political trust in this survey, revolved around keeping promises and agreements. Clearly, there's compelling evidence

of an increasing trust divide and trust vacuum between government, corporations, institutions and we the people. This is reflected in the decline of democratic satisfaction and receding trust in politicians, political parties, other key institutions and especially the media. The Conversation article continues by forecasting that by 2025, if current trends continue, fewer than 10% of Australians will trust their politicians and political institutions. Now, I hazard a guess that we're not far off that now, given the blame gaming and lack of accountability that's been demonstrated during the pandemic. Unfortunately, the end result will be more ineffective and illegitimate government and

declining social and economic well-being. So what has trust got to do with it? Everything. In my continual quest to define and establish what causes and creates sustainable success, it always comes back to relationships. The quality of relationships. Relationships between individuals, teams and organisations. It's the quality of relationships that creates winning cultures and drive sustainable success. And what is at the base of great relationships? You probably guessed it, trust. Our KnowHow Property Finance team hear me talk about this all the time. When someone joins our team, one of the first questions I ask them is what business are we in? Inevitably, most say we're in the property finance, the property investment

or the home loans business and after a pregnant pause I say yes that's what we do but we're actually in the relationships business and relationships are built on respect that rests on a foundation of trust so we're really in the trust business and any team or organization that relies on a group of people to achieve results is also in the relationship and trust business But what does trust really mean? Well, according to research done by David Horsiger, trust is the single uniqueness of the greatest leaders and organisations of all time. And the interesting thing about this is research conducted by James Davis,

who looked at the history of the most influential world leaders in the context of trust, cited in an internet ranking, revealing that Alexander the Great was ranked number one, and somewhat surprisingly, Napoleon is ranked number three, ahead of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill. And amazingly, Adolf Hitler came in at number 17, ahead of Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. So how does this reflect on trust? Does this mean that Hitler is more trusted than Benjamin Franklin?

And what about trusted brands like Nike, Coca-Cola, McDonald's and Apple. How do you know that biting into that next big Mac is not going to make you sick? How do you know that you can trust Apple when you open up and agree to their licensing agreement before being able to use their products? The iTunes licensing agreement is 229 odd pages. Have you ever stopped on Reddit or anyone else's before signing it? most of us just agree to it why because we trust apple so what is trust and what drives trust now trust's a big word what do we really mean when we say i trust you or i don't trust you unfortunately the dictionary's definition of trust is a bit pale anemic and superficial

So I feel Brené Brown captures it best when she borrows Charles Feltman's description, which is fleshed out in her acronym BRAVING, which goes like this. Trust is choosing to make something important to you vulnerable to the actions of someone else. Choosing to make something important to you vulnerable to the actions of someone else. feltman also says that distrust is what i've shared with you that's important to me is not safe with you and to further develop and understand trust brené brown takes this further with her acronym braving b-r-a-v-i-n-g because when we trust we are brave in connection with someone So let's break down the parts of trust. And while I'm talking about this defining trust framework,

apply them to yourself and others in positions of trust to see how you and others shape up. So kicking it off, B is for boundaries. I trust you if you're clear about your boundaries and you hold them and you're clear about my boundaries and you respect them. There's no trust without boundaries. The R is for reliability. I can only trust you if you do what you say you're going to do and not just once.

Now let's take a reliable scale. If I jump on something 100 times, then it'll say the same thing every time. It's reliable. So reliability is about you doing what you say you're going to do over and over and over again. Trust is not a once-off event. You can't gain my trust if you're only reliable once. It has to be earned over time, like putting jelly beans in a jar for each act of reliability,

one by one, until it's full. It's about doing what you say you're going to do time and time again so that trust builds and strengthens with time. Early on, when there are only a very few trust jelly beans in the jar, any non-discretion or unreliability can seriously damage the level of trust and trustworthiness and remember it's the little things that count being late for a meeting not calling when you say you will are all trust jelly beans that you're taking out of the jar you can't earn my trust if you're reliable once reliability means we are very clear on our limitations so we don't take on

too much and end up not delivering on our commitments or letting others down. Now, this is something that I continuously struggle with as I say yes far too often. The A is for accountability. I can only trust you if you're willing to own up when you make a mistake. You need to be able to own it, apologise for it, learn from it and make amends. It's why I know how Property Finance's client care formula, a 4F100 is based on 100% personal accountability and no excuses, because no accountability or responsibility means no trust. It's the foundation of truth and honesty which build trust.

Now the V is for vault, as in a lockable safe. what I share with you you will hold in complete confidence and what you share with me I will hold in complete confidence and we need to appreciate that there's only one door on the trust vault and we need to understand what's on each side of the vault door because this is where trust often breaks down if a good friend or a colleague comes up to you and says oh my god did you hear about so-and-so they're getting a divorce or did you hear that John's leaving us because he's got another job but he hasn't told anyone yet they've shared something with you that is not theirs to share and their gossip means that our trust for them is also diminished if someone's gossiping

and sharing confidential information with me then I always wonder what they're saying about me or breaking my confidence with others. If you've nothing nice to say about someone, don't say it. Gossip breaks the trust confidentiality vault. You no longer feel safe. Unfortunately in this day and age, a lot of people break the vault of confidentiality and share things that are just not ours to share as a way to create connection with a friend. But if our closeness is only based on talking badly about someone else, then this is what Brown calls common enemy intimacy. It's not real intimacy or connection. If our connection is only built on hating someone else, then it's fake connection and not built on common trust. So the V is

for vault, which means that you respect my story, but you also respect other people's story. The I in braving is for integrity. I can't trust you or being in a trusting relationship with you if you don't act from a place of integrity and encourage me to do the same. So what's integrity? Again, I love Brené Brown's definition. Integrity is choosing courage over comfort. It's choosing what's right over what's fun, fast or easy. It's about living, practicing, acting and staying true to your values and principles, not just professing or talking about your values. It's about walking your talk,

particularly in challenging and confronting situations. This reminds me of that great saying that the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. You need to act in alignment with our values and principles regardless of situation or circumstance. and this isn't easy as it's far more popular to go with the flow particularly when you counter opposition but when you compromise your values you compromise yourself and then you start

distrusting and losing faith and belief in yourself so stay true to you or as the Americans say you do you and I'll do me integrity is also about trusting in non-judgment you accept me for who I am regardless of where I'm at or what I've done and I can be open and vulnerable with you and express my innermost thoughts and feelings without fear or favor I can fall apart and ask for your help without being judged this is the end in braving of non-judgment and asking for help is not a sign of weakness or failure so don't judge yourself either when you ask for help, or judge others or think less of them when they ask for your help. Acceptance is true honesty and trust at work. And lastly with braving, the G is for generosity.

Our relationship is only a trusting relationship if you can assume the best intentions about me and my words and my behaviours. And when I let you down in some way or I fall short of your expectations. If you trust me, you'll make a generous assumption that there was a good reason for it and you'll think the best of my intentions and that something must have occurred that prevented me from meeting your expectation. Trust is built on empathy, care and acceptance rather than judgment and criticism when things don't go as expected. This generous accepting approach overcomes the tit-for-tat school board approach you often experience when genuine trust just isn't present. So to sum up the braving definition of trust, we've got a delicate

balance of clear boundaries, reliability, accountability, the safety fault, integrity and non-judging generosity. This gives you a framework to assess the level of trust in any relationship, whether it be personal or professional, whether it be you or others that you're gauging the level of trust on. If you're not trusting yourself or others, ask yourself these questions. Am I honouring and sticking to my own boundaries? Am I reliable and can I count on myself?

Do I hold myself accountable? Am I staying true to my integrity? Do I judge myself unfairly or give myself the benefit of the doubt? And am I generous and accepting of myself? This is braving in action. to be able to move the meter on trust in all of our relationships. So how do you shape up against this definition?

How do others that are close to you or important to you line up against the braving definition of trust? Unfortunately, many of our current leaders, whether they be political, religious or corporate, fall way short of these trust qualities. Why? Because trust is built in very small moments. John Gottman, who's been studying relationships for over 30 years, revealed that trust is built in the smallest of moments,

which he calls sliding door moments. Remember that great movie with Gwyneth Paltrow from the 90s where they paint the picture of her life unfolding in two parallel universes based on whether she caught a train before the automatic sliding door closed or whether she missed the train because the sliding door closed just before she got on. and both of these choices lead to radically different outcomes. In similar fashion, Gottman believes that trust is created through a series of sliding door moments,

like the mobile phone calls that you don't take because you know the caller is going through a messy time and will talk for hours and you're just too busy to talk right now. This is a sliding door moment opportunity to either build trust or betray trust. But it's important to recognise that the reason that trust is so hard to define, is that trust is more of a feeling, as Simon Sinek has so rightly observed in the past, because no amount of logical rationalisation is going to override our

intuitive gut feelings when it comes to whether we trust someone or not. This is because our very survival as a species over the last 50,000 odd years is due to the fact that we're social animals and trust and cooperation have been absolutely mission critical. They're not just nice ideas. Trust and cooperation are absolutely essential to our survival. And it's easy to understand why. For 40,000 of our 50,000 odd years as Homo sapiens on the planet, we never lived in tribal populations bigger than 150 people.

And our group gatherings created a circle of safety so that you could go to sleep at night and trust that someone in the tribe would watch out for danger and protect you. If I didn't trust my group, then I couldn't afford the luxury of going to sleep. And this fundamental, intuitive group trust still operates today, where mutual trust is critical to group success in any setting, be it family, sport, religious groups, corporations or governments. When we're with people we trust,

we don't need to continuously double-check what others are doing, and we don't need multiple layers of time-wasting approval. When we have trust, we can let people go about their work and things happen easily and effortlessly because we trust them and they trust us and we all have each other's backs. We all have each other's interests in mind. But the challenge with trust and the cooperation that engenders

is that they're not a recipe or a set of instructions that you follow. I simply can't ask you or tell you to trust me and if I say just trust me then that's a sure way to destroy trust before it even starts. You can't simply tell people that I want you to cooperate because trust and cooperation arise from deep intuitive feelings. Again reverting to our paleolithic hunter-gatherer ancestry you can imagine that the world was filled with multiple dangers that were all out to end our lives, like saber-toothed tigers and extreme weather events. So as collective tribal animals, we lived and worked together and surrounded ourselves with those that we felt we belonged with and made us feel safe. And within this circle of safety,

the natural human response is trust, which leads to cooperation, and then the magic of superior achievement happens. But when we're surrounded by distrust and we don't feel safe amongst those around us. The natural responses are feelings of cynicism, paranoia and self-interest. We're too scared to make mistakes and we're too scared to do anything. And all this stems from our leaders because if we don't trust them and they don't make us feel safe then we have no choice but to waste valuable time and energy protecting ourselves from each other. On the flip side, when we don't fear each other we naturally work together to face dangers and threats that we can collaboratively seize and make the best of the opportunities.

As Cynic so well describes, in the military, they give medals to people who are willing to sacrifice themselves so that others may gain. But in many of our businesses and organisations, corporations and governments, we give bonuses to people who will sacrifice others so that they may gain. so the key to success in any group setting or organization is the creation of a trusting environment where everyone feels safe and if we get the trusting environment right then every single one of us has a capacity to do remarkable things and when you ask members of any successful team why they put themselves at risk and put themselves on the line for others

they all say the same thing because the rest of the team would have done the same for me. It's a deep sense of trust and cooperation that grows when the leaders create that unshakable circle of safety. And the best way for leaders to do this is to treat their teams like their family, where the leaders are the great parents who want to give their children opportunities

through education and discipline and tough love. to create an environment where it's safe and okay to try and fail and make mistakes so that they build their self-confidence and grow in cooperation with others to achieve more than they could ever have imagined for themselves. And all of this is built on the foundation of selfless care and trust because with trust grows respect and with respect grows sustainable success. So what has trust and respect got to do with sustainable success? Everything.

And one of the best living examples of someone who exemplifies all of these rare qualities of trust and supportive leadership in a genuine, humble, quietly spoken way is today's special guest, Barry Richardson. as a country boy like me barry's one of those people that was brought up to believe that your word is your deed and that everything is signed and sealed by simply looking someone square in the eye and giving them a handshake you can trust your word and it's as good as done and you don't need lengthy or protracted legal contracts to back up or any of this because trust is a must if barry says he's going to do something he does it and he stays true to his principles and he'll walk away and stick to his guns if someone tries to compromise them he's consistently true to himself and true to all of those around him as i've said before

there are very few people in the world that i genuinely respect and trust i can actually count them on an amputated hand but barry or bones as he's affectionately called is definitely one of them. Bones has that very rare quality of one of those wise men that speaks his truth quietly and humbly, but when he talks, you just stop and listen. He's the embodiment of that old saying that a wise man only talks when he's got something to say,

whereas fools talk because they have to say something. He's definitely a wise man in that capacity. I've been a massive fan of Barry's since the 1960s during his glory days as a premiership AFL footballer for my team, the mighty Richmond Tigers and he went on to become the coach and then the club president and there are very, very few who have achieved this level of total accomplishment and one of the great privileges of hosting this podcast

is I get to reach out and connect with many of my lifetime humble heroes who I trust, admire and respect. So today's conversation is a real thrill and a genuine personal pleasure. So to set the scene so that you can fully appreciate the wide spectrum of Barry Richardson's incredible achievements, here's a brief snapshot. As an elite footballer, he kicked 134 goals

and played 125 games over nine seasons from 1965 to 1974. and he won three premierships during the mighty Richmond Tigers' golden age of the club in 1967, 69 and 74 when he played in Richmond's first drought-breaking and winning premiership for over 24 years. This was an amazing feat during the time when the game was yet to become professional and players were part-time and had to hold down full-time jobs and working careers in order to pay their way. bones played during the rough and tough days of mud blood and beer and he was one of hafie's heroes when he was coached by the club's team of the century coach tommy hafie who was famous

for always saying i'm sensational but getting better these were the days when the coach led by example and tommy was still doing a thousand sit-ups a day and 200 push-ups a day when he was well into his 70s and this daily discipline has actually rubbed off on Barry who still keeps himself fit at a similar age. Now one of the standout qualities of Bones as a player was that instead of just being a specialised one position player like most are, Barry was extremely versatile playing as a ruck rover, half forward, full back, then full forward before reverting to half forward flank and then finishing his career back at full forward. His last game before retiring was the 1974 Premiership win against North Melbourne where he booted five goals in a 41 point victory

and he went out on a high. But this was just a start for Barry because two years later he won the difficult job of coach of the mighty Richmond Tigers which was a really big ask taking over from the legendary Tommy Heafy and being in charge of many of his former teammates at just 30 years of age and many commended him for his inclusive trusting approach that was a way ahead of the time. This was a cutthroat time in the game when the instant pressure to perform from the ferocious and impatient Tiger Army created a mistrusting environment where the Tiger administration would constantly eat their young by only offering coaches one-year contracts and then regularly sacking them. So Barry actually managed to last two seasons as coach, which was more than most

during this revolving door period. This was an environment where the pressure to perform created an endemic culture of mistrust that led to Richmond's lost years, going without a premiership for another 34 years. But on the strength of his always trustworthy and dependable approach, Barry was far from done in the corridors of football, joining the Melbourne Daemons in 1981 as Chairman of Selectors before returning to Richmond in the hallowed position of club president for a year.

He resigned on principle when his handshake deal with the then coach was overturned by the administration. his trustworthy his trustworthy reliable approach was further rewarded when he then joined the west coast eagles before spending time at melbourne carlton in geelong and barry's high achievements weren't restricted to football professionally he was a pioneer of sports physiotherapy and he stayed at the forefront of his profession with a client list that includes the who's who of worldwide elite sport during those days including legendary cricketer dennis Lilley, AFL legend Ron Barassi, US tennis star Jimmy Connors and ice skaters Torval and

Dean. Barry is one of those rare individuals who's managed to balance the competing pressures of family, elite sport and his professional career as a sports physio. Throughout his personal, professional and sporting career, Barry's cool, calm and collected demeanour engendered instant trust respect and admiration from anyone who knew him and he's been described as versatile valiant valuable and victorious and this sums him up perfectly and the reason he reached the giddy heights of stardom and sustainable success both on and off the football field and in his thriving business as a physio to the world's greats all comes down to his reliable dependable trustworthiness and the respect that this

has engendered. As you're about to hear in our great conversation today. So enjoy this humble hero, Barry Richardson. Welcome back Freedom Fighters. Now as you know I'm a firm believer that sustainable success is an elite team sport achieved over a long term journey and nowhere is this more evident than the world of professional sports where sport imitates life and life imitates sport and in our current times of radical uncertainty to achieve sustainable success as individuals and as teams we need great humble leaders who

walk the talk and one of the great benefits of hosting this podcast is that I get the honour and the privilege of talking to my lifetime heroes so as a die-hard Richmond Tiger supporter since I was knee-high to a grasshopper, I'm very excited to be talking to a living legend who lives and breathes all of the sustainable success traits, Barry Richardson. So welcome, and let's get invested, Barry, or should I call you Bones? Good on you, Bushy. How are you? Very good, mate. Do you prefer Barry or Bones? I know you were called Bones for many years during your VFL playing days.

Is that nickname stuck? school it sort of has um i probably should give the origin of that is that um when i was a 19 year old and i managed to sort of do my knee after the third league game um a worthy chap called raymond clarence jordan um who you remember well yeah has kind of wandered in as i was feeling rather you know sad about myself and he says ah don't worry about it he says all you catholics it got chalky bones, and so it kind of stuck. So it degenerated from chalky bones to just bones. So that's the origin.

Anyway, a bit of trivia for you. Well, it's a good nickname given that you've been a physiotherapist for over 50 years. That's pretty appropriate, I reckon, Barry. It's worked out pretty well. It has. Now, Barry, you'd have to be Rip Van Winkle not to know who you are, But for those listeners who aren't big Aussie rules football fans, can you start off by

telling us who you are, what you do, and more importantly, why you do what you do? Well, I guess I sort of started off when I sort of think of the journey, you know, not going back too far, but born on a farm, a great mum and dad, a little place called Barnawatha, which is sort of, you know, the site of Wodonga. And, you know, as a kid growing up, I think probably had just a really a blessed life, as I think a lot of kids on the farm do. But I suppose always deep down I was never really going to be a farmer and that was probably because of my mother and father actually

who sort of kind of recognised that I was perhaps a bit of a, I wouldn't call it a restless soul, but I was probably good at school and on the way through and reasonably good at sports. So I remember mum saying to me at some stage, look, I don't think you should be a farmer. And it sort of went from there. And it's funny when you're growing up as a kid, it's almost like there's sort of some sort of hazy thing on the horizon

which you can't quite put your finger on. But, you know, you want to, I don't know, just be the best at what you can be at whatever you do. And I don't mean that egotistically, but I think it's kind of, it just sort of something is always, it was a shadow in the back of my mind that I wanted to be good at something, I suppose. Well, you've certainly done that in spades, Barry. And I know that, you know, in your early days, you bought it at St. Patrick's College in Ballarat. But how did that time shape your future looking back? Well, again, it sounds, you know, horribly egotistical

and I apologise for that. But I happen to be sort of particularly good at sport, I suppose. So in year 11, sorry, year 10, I was playing first 18 and first 11 and first tennis team and all that sort of stuff. And then in year 11, I was captain of the cricket team and football as well. I was captain of the combined Ballarat public schools in year 11. So, you know, I sort of, I don't even quite know why all that happened. It's just so I think that I probably had a God-given ability,

which included being tall for my age. and I don't know genetically my grandfather actually a guy called Fred Hiskins on my mother's side he played for Essendon in the 1901 premiership side would you believe okay and and my father he was a farmer but he he came from Queensland and at age 14 was the opening bat for Nudgee College in Queensland so I think that genetically I was kind of lucky physically and it sort of went from there I ended up being school captain and in that final year being school captain we also had a Christian brother his name was brother Kelty and he was the house master and also we lived in a you know a boarding house yeah and

He was head of the boarding house and this man, Brother Kelty, who was just a fine person and when I left in 1964, he also left but he became the brother provincial of the world of the Christian Brothers. Wow. So he was a very sort of substantial figure and I think that, you know, Bushy, as you know, we're lucky in our lives if we have sort of those sort of people as mentors and he no doubt sort

of shaped a fair bit of, you know, where I was heading, I guess. Yeah, if you're sort of looking back on that time with Brother Kelty, what were the qualities and the approach to life that he imparted on you, do you think? Look, I think that they were hard men, the Christian brothers, at that time, but I certainly have the greatest respect for them and I think that, I mean, for example, we had an English teacher and in my life going through, in those days, and you kind of, you may well have been the same, it was inverted commas, the so-called smart kids did

maths and sciences and the so-called dumb kids did humanities. Yeah, that's true. I was sort of funneled into maths and sciences and I hated maths and science. In fact, I think I failed physics for three years in a row. But I had an English teacher and ultimately in that final year, I ended up, because of him, with a first honour in English literature. And it was English literature that actually got me into the courses as physiotherapist.

So, I look back in those times and call it lucky, you know, that I had a couple of great people coming through my years at St Pat's. I think also boarding schools sort of teach, taught you a lot about sort of, well, resilience but also the ability to get on with all types of kids, you know, from different backgrounds, country backgrounds, city backgrounds, the whole thing. So, yeah, boarding school, the only problem is you're away from your parents for a period of time. But I think in some ways boarding school was good to sort of, I don't know, just shape your life coming in,

which was sort of one of, I think, tolerance of other people. Yeah, that's a very good point. And was it around that time that your interest in physiotherapy arose? Where did that interest come from? i think originally i was thinking more medicine yeah but then um coming from where i you know the background with one of five kids and you know dad and mum did extremely well to sort of put me through boarding school but i was i needed um to to go to university i needed to have an income i suppose so um and i think that the you know the football world um sort of was part of that

but in order to do medicine you would have also had to be a resident and have night duty and you know weekend duties and all that sort of stuff so that that didn't really fit in with the football in the football world and i said and i was lucky with the football world that in those days and and we laugh about it now, but there was no zoning in those days, so you sort of went to the highest bidder, and the highest bidder were both Melbourne Footy Club and Richmond Footy Club, and Melbourne had won the premiership in 1964,

and Richmond, of course, were not much good. So I've kind of figured that I wouldn't get a game at Melbourne because they'd been the premiers, but I might get a game at Richmond. well that was very fortuitous wasn't it well it certainly was because i mean two years later 1966 we played in the reserves premiership and 1967 i'm playing in a premiership but the fees i got fees and booked the university and 14 a week living allowance which was enough to get me through um you know through the physiotherapy course so um there it was you know Yeah, because you're a Richmond supporter, I'll waffle on a bit.

Good. So when I had a lot of, I'm sorry I sound so egotistically, but I was probably really a first draft pick at that time. Yeah. And anyway, I had a lot of people come up to the farm, you know, during the holidays. Interestingly enough, Brother Kelty, when I was at school, he turned back, you know, the great Norm Smith

who wanted to come up and, you know, chat to me and he said the boy is here for his education not just to play football. So poor old Norm Smith got turned away at the St Pat's Gates. Love that story. That's awesome. I'm just going to go and have to plug this. I've got a bad battery phone so just bear with me a minute.

I'll plug in some electricity. You're all good, mate. Now, while you're doing that, just for the listener's benefit, but I might just summarise your performance as a player because as an elite player you played 125 games for Richmond over nine seasons and won three premierships during the sort of mighty Richmond Tigers golden age of the club, really. I'd love for you to share, over that fantastic playing career you had,

what were some of the routines and rituals that you adopted that allowed you to be so successful and so versatile as a player, Barry? Well, actually, it sort of happened in a roundabout way, Bushy, and this also probably in some way shaped my life a bit as well, is that in the first season, I went straight out of school to play. I played the first game the next year straight out of matriculation or school, and I only played three games, and I did my knee badly. and it was and still is or was a cruciate ligament

which in these days requires reconstruction. But in those days, no one really quite knew what it was. And anyway, I went from being a schoolboy, high leaping, you know, high jumping, whatever, because it was a leg that I took off. Yeah. and I missed all of that season and then I sort of struggled through the next season a bit because of not being able to jump. I never could again really.

But so then I sort of changed my game and I became, in modern parlance, I became a midfielder rather than a sort of centre-half forward, full forward type. and, luckily enough, sort of learnt how to sort of compensate for it. I used to run down Glenferrie Road learning to jump off Mother Leg by jumping at street signs along the way, milk bar signs. So what it did to my life, I think, sounds a funny thing to say, but it was probably good because, in a way, as a school kid and whatever,

Everything was just natural. It just sort of, I never really had to put much effort into it. But then all of a sudden I'm in a zone where I really had to, well, I suppose get some resilience in my life. And I worked bloody hard, you know, to play that 10 years. And, in fact, I only played 126 games in 10 years because I kept on doing news. Yeah.

And so what happened, I simply went from a half-forward flank in 1967, then I went to full-back, which I'd never played before, but played full-back because I was running in straight lines rather than having to twist and turn too much. Yeah. Because the knee was never much good, really. And then I had an operation at the end of 69, and then I sort of, oh, look, I missed a hole of the year,

1973, through a knee injury, the other knee. so it was always a bit of a battle and I was laughing to my wife Judy the other day as I was riding the bike yet again this morning and said I've been rehabilitating my bloody body since I was 19 and it's sort of correct I reckon I've sort of been

we shouldn't talk about our ailments as we get older but, you know, an ankle fusion and all sorts of stuff happening. So I said to Judy, I've been rehabilitating since I was age 19. She just sort of rolls her eyes as usual. Tell me, and just on that, I think you've touched on a really good point because I certainly believe the obstacle is the way. It's these sorts of obstacles that make us stronger and give us the resilience to go on.

And I know, you know, as a player, as you touched on, you sort of went from ruck rover and half forward to full back and then then to full forward and then you reverted back to the half forward flank and then you finish your career at at full forward how will you be able how were you to be so versatile when most players particularly these days specialize in just one or two positions well i think i think they're probably the injury boarded about strangely enough so i'd always been a center half forward you know full forward type and then once I sort of lost the ability to jump and spring, I had to do something different.

So what I did do is I built up my endurance, become sort of more of an endurance runner rather than a sprinter, if you like. Yeah. And then the fullback thing happened because Fred Swift, he was our captain in 1967 and the fullback. So halfway during 1968, they were looking for a fullback and anyway, someone, John Nix, I think the reserves coach,

reckons that I look like Bob Murray from St Kilda and say, why couldn't I play full-back? Well, let's talk about your time as full-back because I know during the 69 season you became the first player to hold Hawthorne's champion full-forward Peter Hudson goalless during a league match and to put some context around that, And Hudson was averaging around about five goals a game throughout his whole league career.

So certainly that was a bit of a feat. What was your strategy and what did you do differently that helped you keep him goals? Well, I'll tell you a couple of quick stories and then maybe a slightly amusing one, which I hope you find amusing. But the week before he kicked 16 on poor old Tassie Johnson, who, incidentally, I played my first game on.

So it was a Glenfrey Oval, Peter's kick 16. And in those days, there were no real replays, but during the week, the news service kept seeing these photos of Peter Hudson running into open goal. And I thought, well, bugger that. Maybe if I play a long way behind him, at least he won't run into open goal. He might only kick eight rather than 16.

so anyways the way it turned out when peter and i become good friends actually we sometimes laugh about it so because it sort of worried him because every other fullback we were sticking you know as close as he could and putting elbows in with him and whatever and i was standing about 20 meters behind him so he kept looking around to see where i was and i was sort of leaning on the goalposts who were looking totally disinterested. And so what happened is they used to kick the ball over Hudson's head and he'd run into open goal, which you probably remember yourself. Yeah, I do.

So I took about four chess marks in the goal square because they kicked it over his head. Anyway, the coach kept saying, you know, go and play on him. And I kept seeing the runner back say, no, no, I'm going over right here. with me anyway but she fluke um or good management or whatever he didn't manage to keep the goal 30 years later which is sort of the amusing part of the story um i was up in the middle river uh trout fishing i think with gareth andrews actually oh yeah and uh anyway we hadn't i didn't caught a trout so it's saturday morning so he said i will go to the pub

so as soon as the pub opened it was about 10 whatever we we were in the bar um as you do when you don't catch a fish and there's this extremely large chap down the far end of the bar and he's kind of a you know a lumberjacky looking bloke with a beanie and bit of shaving and one of those red check sort of flannel things that they all wear anyway he kept staring on the staring down the bar, staring down the bar, staring down the bar. I probably won't say exactly what he said, but it went along these lines where he sort of came down the bar and he says, yeah, it's you, you bastard.

And I'm going, oh, God, here we go. He says, yeah, it's you, you bastard. And I've gone, oh, well, you know, can I help you, mate? He says, yeah, yeah. He said, I travelled five and a half hours to the MCG to see the great Peter Hudson. I didn't effing go to see you How good is that

that it's so many years on that it's still stuck in his mind I'm really sorry That's awesome One of my boyhood legends as well but being such a Tiger fan of course was Tommy Heafy and he remained so until he passed

because I don't think I'll ever forget you know his famous saying you know how are you feeling Tommy yeah I'm sensational but I'm getting better and you know what I loved about him right through until pretty much he passed he was doing a a thousand sit-ups a day and a couple of hundred push-ups and well into his 70s what was it like being coached by Tommy Heafy and you know for those listeners who don't know Tommy was has He's been listed as the club's coach of the century. He really was an inspirational guy from looking in from the outside. But what was it like both being coached by him

and working so closely with Tommy? Oh, terrific. I mean, the thing about Tommy is enthusiasm, really, just enthusiasm for everything. And I think that I know that I look at my life now that when I finished playing and playing football under Tommy and his, you know, his dedication to his fitness and whatever, I do think that rubbed off on certainly me and to a degree, you know,

quite a few other guys as well. So he was a very simple man, Tommy, and had a fairly, believe it or not, reasonably simple approach to football. It was all kind of, oh, again, I probably shouldn't be swearing on this podcast too much, Bushy, but he used to call myself like Michael Green and myself and a couple of us, Michael Bowden, I think, as those effing university students because we used to occasionally question his methods.

But he was so wonderfully sort of enthusiastic and wonderfully, you know, loved the game of football so much that he was just totally single-minded. and he also loved his boys, as he called them, and so we had a great relationship. But again, you know, funny, it gives you some insight into Tommy. Tommy was all about football. Yeah.

You couldn't really get him to talk about anything else and I recently had lunch with Michael Green and we were laughing about the day the men landed on the moon. So I said to Greeny, now listen, this is our big chance to get Tommy to talk something different about football. So Tommy's in the middle of the circle, Richmond and Brown. So Green and I jog around the oval and I say, God, here's our big chance.

So we jog over to Tommy and say, hey, Tommy, isn't it fantastic those blokes landing on the moon today? How good was that? And he looked at us and he didn't say much and he says, can they help us make the four? It's had the ability to turn a pack of footy. That was it. It was the end of our conversation.

tell me i mean he and again for the everyone listening benefit uh prior to that golden age when you you were playing uh under tommy's coaching uh the club had been through a 24 hour drought a 24 year drought should i say before winning uh you know a series of uh premierships What do you think it was about Tommy and his approach to coaching and his relationship with the players that made such a difference and allowed the team to perform so well for so long? Well, Bush, I think there's a couple of things. I think also, you know, having been in the world of coaching,

I think sometimes if you're now 22, if you're 22 is better than they're 22, you usually win. and so apart from I'll talk about Tommy in just a moment but if you sort of talk about probably go back to Graham Richmond who was the penultimate recruiter and strangely enough he actually recruited strongly from the Catholic colleges even though he wasn't Catholic himself. He recruited like Michael Green who was Xavier and Assumption

and Francis Burke, Assumption and myself, St Pat's Ballarat Michael Bowden, St. Kevin. So because he believed that they were sort of brought up in a fairly disciplined way, now that was just Graham's idea. But at the same time, he also recruited Dick Clay and a chap from Tasmania called Royce Hart who could play a bit. Just a little bit. Just a little bit.

So when we won in 1967, I think our average age was 21 or 22. It was ridiculously – a lot of us had played in 1966. Again, Royce, myself, Graham Bergen, Michael Green played in the 66 grand final. And so obviously the group were a fairly talented group. But as you know, you know, in your life as well, the talent is not enough. and so Tommy was able to sort of harness that talent by a belief that we were fitter, stronger and tougher than anyone else and, you know, we trained the first team

to train Wednesday nights, for example, as well as Tuesdays and Thursdays. We went down to Percy Serity's Portsea camps pre-season which were absolute murderous. So there's no doubt that Tommy stole a march on the other clubs with his own, A, personal fitness and example, but, B, I think that we were fitter and stronger than the majority of teams that were playing at the time.

So he was an evolutionary at that period of his life and that period of football. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you've sort of mentioned to me before we hit the record button this morning how important role models and mentors have been to you over the years. Who were your role models and how has that sort of translated into your success, Barry? um yeah look i think uh i'll actually we're not finished when i graduated which is the end of 1967 which was the same year um that we that we won the premiership and i have to say that when you talk about you know uh i'm just jumping a little bit but i reckon one of the most disciplined and things I did in my life was in 1967 we won the premiership. On a Tuesday, I had a final exam in physio and I had to pass it.

It was a third-year exam. Because of the lead-up to football, I hadn't done quite as much work as you can probably imagine that I needed to do. But anyway, we won the premiership on the Saturday. By 8 o'clock on the Sunday morning, I'd locked myself in my room with my books while everyone else was out sort of having a great time and celebrating. I didn't emerge from my room until Tuesday lunchtime,

and the exam was at 2 o'clock, and it was a three-hour exam, so I got through that, and then I thought, beauty, now I'll go and celebrate. Well, I went down the streets of Richmond and couldn't find anyone. That all conked out. That all conked out. So I ended up having a cup of beer to some old drunken Richmond hotel somewhere. Well, it says a fair bit about your discipline and dedication to be able to work.

Well, yeah, it was also a necessity, I suppose. But I do think that there comes sometimes, there comes a time when you've just got to do things, you know, a bit hard. So in that part of, so then I worked at the old Prince Henry's Hospital and I sort of started off working there part time. but I'd learned about a physio called David Wirth who was out at Preston and I knew that he was sort of ahead of the game, if you like, in spinal manipulation or whatever. So I was sort of treading water a bit at Prince Henry's and I was doing stuff like intensive care, which I didn't like anyway.

So I rang David and said, look, I want to come and work with you. I'm happy to work for nothing. And I did. So I worked half-time at Prince Henry's and later on Panche. And I worked for David for nothing for, you know, three to six months or whatever. Yeah. And that was one of the best decisions I made

because he was a fantastic practitioner. And then later on there was a doctor called Dr Bill Granger who was also a fine man and a fine person who became a friend and a mentor. and then later on, even though we're similar ages, a surgeon called John Bartlett who's now a wonderfully well-known orthopaedic surgeon, we became friends and I think that he was one of those wise people, if you like, that you just kind of when they speak,

you listen. They sort of speak their truth quietly but you tend to listen. And I've always thought in life, you know, I'm becoming very philosophical now, but I reckon that in life and certainly in football and football coaching and all that sort of stuff that it's a bit easy to have one year's experience ten times rather than ten years' experience. So I always felt that I call it evolution in stuff.

So I've always tried through my career, life, physio, whatever, to have 10 years' experience rather than one year's experience 10 times, if you know what I mean. Yeah. And I think that these people helped furnish that for me. Yeah, it's a brilliant approach to life, absolutely brilliant approach to life. Mate, you missed the 73 Premiership due to those knee injuries

that you were talking about earlier. Yep. It must have been a pretty tough year for you watching the side win. And what was it like to miss out on the game? And as a flow-on from that, given how serious that injury was, how did you manage to overcome that both mentally and physically to get yourself back on the side? Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?

Yeah, I did. In 1972, we were beaten by Carlton in the game, they kicked 28-9 and we kicked 22-18 to be beaten, would you believe? Wow. And I trained my heart off during the summer because I was really dirty on losing. Anyway, in the first quarter of the first game out at Essendon in 1973, I did my remaining good knee.

And anyway, I thought I was really busy at work and had a really busy practice going and all that sort of stuff. And I thought, oh, it's probably going to be the end of it. Then when, and this is really selfish, by the way, I've played in a losing grand final and that's a bad feeling. You really, it's, well, you don't want to have. Yeah. I think even worse is watching your mates run around winning a grand final

knowing that you would have been part of it. Yeah. and I think that was probably a bigger downer even than losing the year before. So I thought, well, bugger it. I'll give this one more go. So I went and had a promotion on me, and at this stage it turned out, later on I found out,

it turned out it was accrued as well. So, look, I worked extremely hard to get back and have one more go and I was extremely lucky as well because, well, I guess, you know, what's that old saying, gee, I'm lucky and I'll work twice as hard next year. You only get lucky if you work hard enough, exactly, Barry. Yeah, you get really lucky if you work hard enough. So anyway, I managed to play three reserves games at the end of the season and then I got into the scenes with two games to go

and then I played two finals, including the grand final, and it sort of, it was terrific. You know, it was hard work, but at least it sort of, it meant I finished my career and that was my last game. So I finished my career, well, on a high rather than on a low, I suppose. And I consider that very fortunate, really. And I was lucky enough to play okay in the grand final. Well, again, your humility permeates.

But in that last game when you retired in the 74 Premiership against North, I think you booted five goals and four of those in the last quarter, I think, from memory. Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, that is right. And that was, you know, I was playing a great player called David Dench, so that was probably, look, through your career you have highs and lows,

but that was probably to finish on a high like that was a nice thing. Did you know before the game that that was going to be your last game or was that a decision you made after winning the premiership? No, I tried to play the next year and, again, I played all the practice games but unfortunately, my knee was pretty wonky so I ended up sort of retiring early on in the 75 season. Yeah, okay. All right, well, I'd love to move on to your sort of coaching career

to some degree. Before I do that, playing and coaching at an elite sport level must be very all-consuming and to some degree you need to focus on yourself. How have you managed to balance this with family and other pursuits outside of sport while you're a player and a coach? In absolute simple terms,

my wife Judy will now be married for 50-plus years. In fact, we married in 3rd of January 1970 after the 69 Grand Final, which was good. We had enough money to have the honeymoon. That was about it. But, you know, if I look at her sacrifice when I was coaching 77, 78, that was lunacy. You know, I had a really busy practice.

So I was sort of seeing, God, 80 patients a week, this sort of stuff, and coaching. Wow. And those days, I'd sort of start work at 8 o'clock on Monday morning, finish by 7 or 8. We had two children, young kids. And then I'd get home in time to pat them on the head, I suppose. And then Tuesdays, I'd finish 1 or 2 o'clock, 8 or 2. I'd go down to the football club.

We only had one assistant coach, but, of course, everyone was working. So I would put out the witch's hats myself and I'd do all that sort of stuff. Then you'd have selection. So I might not get home until, you know, 9 or 10 o'clock for Tuesday, Wednesday 8 till 7, Thursday football again, selection maybe home at 10, Friday 8 till whatever, Saturday football, Sunday world of sport. You had to be a world of sport at 12 o'clock. Yes.

So when I think about it, it was a total lunacy, but Judy always wanted me to do it because she knew that there was probably an itch that I needed to scratch. But without that sort of home support, I could never have done it, no doubt. So I think of all the things that happened in my life, that was probably marrying my wife. We were pretty young. I was 23, she was 21.

But that was probably the best decision that I made in my lifetime, I think. Yeah, I can vouch for the same thing, mate. It took me twice to get it right, but the second time around, I certainly wouldn't be enjoying the life I am if it wasn't for my awesome wife, Sonia. Mate, let's talk about that transition into coaching because you were an assistant coach with Tommy before taking on the big job. What attracted you to coaching?

Was it something you pursued or was it someone saw it in you and tapped you on the shoulder? The latter, I think. And I think it was probably the players sort of, you know. So what had happened is I was always, for some reason, everyone seemed to think that I was coaching material. And, Bushy, I don't know how that works. I honestly don't know how other people see stuff in you

that you probably don't necessarily see yourself. Anyway, they asked me to coach the Reserves in 1976 and that was good and that was under Tommy, with Tommy, and that was a good relationship. and then I had no real thoughts about senior coaching. I was too busy at work, to be perfectly honest. And then Richmond had a bad year in 1976 under Tommy, and then, oh, gee, Richmond sort of started their bloodletting. And then when Tommy went to Collingwood and was essentially sacked,

let's face it, we're all sacked. Only two types of coaches, Bushy. Those are sacked and those are about to be sacked. That is so true, and it hasn't changed. It hasn't changed. Whatever. It hasn't changed. The poor old clarker.

That's right. So when Tommy went to Collingwood, it was actually the players and Alan Schwab was his secretary at the time, but it was probably more the players who sort of came, the likes of Neil Barham and a few of those guys, who said, listen, we reckon you can do this. and then I thought, well, yeah, and then your ego probably takes over a bit and I thought, yeah, I reckon I can do this too

and look, it's a great privilege and a great honour to be the coach of an organisation which had been going for the 1890s or something so I was a little bit within the history of who'd coached before and the great Jack Dyer and all that sort of stuff So to be sort of part of that, I don't know, organisation, I suppose, is a bit of ego feeding, but it's also, yeah, it's an ambition, I think, of every young guy to plan a premiership and to coach a footy team and whatever, and as I said before, you sometimes don't know why it is

that other people see that in you, and that's one of the reasons why I took it on. looking in from the outside you've got this sort of calm demeanor and in a very strategic way of looking at things and being able to observe things uh outside of yourself uh i think that combination uh and just the way you carry yourself there's a there's a sort of an unspoken wisdom around the way you approach things that uh obviously been there for a long time so So no great surprise that you were selected on that basis. Tell me, I mean, filling Tommy's shoes must have been massive

and you're also in charge of your former team-mates at that stage and I think you're only about 30 when you took on that mantle. What was your plan and approach in handling that situation? Just to be myself, I think. I think the biggest mistake you can sometimes make is to try and be someone different. So, you know, when I took over as coaching, was I going to be like Tommy Heafy?

Probably not. Was I going to be like a Ron Barassi, you know, who was certainly a man I greatly respected? Was I going to coach like a Ron Barassi? No, I wasn't. So I was just going to try and be, you know, who I was. I think that, you know, if I look back at that in time, In fact, you know, I coached a lot of guys.

I coached, you know, Mick Malthouse, I coached Neil Balm, I coached Royce Hart, I coached Francis Burke, I coached Kevin Bartlett, who all went on to be coaches as well. And I think one of the compliments I had in later years was Mick Malthouse said that I was way ahead of my time. and I probably was but in some ways I think I was too far ahead of my time so with the wisdom of hindsight I had a lot of ideas so I'd been to the States and I'd studied sports medicine

and I'd studied coaching with the San Francisco 49ers and I'd sort of brought back a lot of sports science if you like and I think I did implement quite a lot of stuff but if I look back with the wisdom of hindsight it was probably too much. So even though I was ahead of the time, which is a nice compliment, probably too far ahead. And anyway, but again, in that second year, 1978,

I think I introduced at least 10 first game players, which was, you know, Waitman, Lee, Tempany, Roach, keep naming them. and they went on to win the premiership in 1980. And I did get a certain amount of satisfaction out of that because I think that in all coaching, you have a development coach and you have sort of a coach coach. I was probably more of a development coach in those days rather than probably the end result.

And I never really had it in my mind to be a career coach. I would have liked probably at least one more year because I felt it was sort of unfinished business. but I've said it before, two types of coaches, Bushy, those are sacked, those are about to be sacked. And it's just the way it was. And Richmond sort of went on with a purge for many years, which was one of the main reasons they weren't successful.

Yeah, and I'd love to talk about that, actually. You sort of opened that door beautifully because, you know, and I continue to see it, the scapegoating that goes on where, you know, I've often said that the worst jobs in the country are either an AFL coach or a prime minister because you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. And it's sort of, from the outside looking in, it appears that many clubs and supporters

expect very quick results from coaches. And, you know, it's fair to say that in the years after Tommy Heafey, the coach's chair appeared to be almost like a poison chalice at Richmond with almost like some sort of bizarre game of musical chairs. And I think there was about six coaches in 10 years, Barry. Why are coaches so dispensable and how can we educate organisations generally to appreciate that achieving sustainable success

is actually a long-term endeavour, not an instant overnight success? Well, I do think if you jump forward, I think I've got great respect for Peggy O'Neill and Brendan Gale. Yeah. And my son, Daniel, was the football manager at Richmond when they won that first premiership under Dimmer. Yep.

And if you look back at that time, I mean, Dimmer was very close to being another casualty of the Richmond Purge. Yes. But through Peggy O'Neill, Brendan Gale, and I would say Daniel, who was football manager at the time, they said, no, we reckon that he's the coach, let's surround him with good people and as you know in organisations very well that's one of the best things you can do if you can surround yourself with good people,

you share in the reflected glory and I think that that group then by then recognising that Hardwick was A, a good coach and we get back to having players, having good players, that sort of then becomes part of the equation. I might just jump backwards a little bit. So when I was chairman of selectors at Geelong, it was a really good experience down there. So Mark Thompson rang me when he – because I'd been with David Parkin

for two years, and I always felt that as a mentor to coaches, two years is almost enough because then you become a nag rather than a mentor. Anyway, but I enjoyed my time with Parker. He was terrific. But then I sort of abdicated to Steve Kernaghan to become chairman of selectors. So then I thought, oh, that was good.

I enjoyed that experience. Anyway, I got a ring from Mark Thompson to sort of say, look, I'm taking on the coach at Geelong and I haven't coached senior before and I need an old bugger to come and help me. Well, I sort of, I helped in the old bit. And so anyway, down I went to Geelong. And that was again, and in some ways, I reckon that that was the yardstick for Richmond a bit later on.

anyway in the first halfway during the first year and we talk about the evolution of the game or whatever halfway during the first year i had a cup of coffee with brian cook and frank costard late from costard fantastic man frank costard yeah anyway they said how do you think we're going i said well you've heard of five-year plans and they've gone away we don't like five-year plans you know, five-year plans, the supporters don't like those. I said, well, I think you've got a seven-year plan. And they go, no, why? So with the eyes of the recruiter, I'd seen guys like Corey Enright

and Chapman and Ling and all these blokes who were young players, but you could see they could play. You know, you could see that they were going to be really good. And I said, well, I reckon you've got a seven-year plan. Well, ironically, they run it in their seventh year. But again, Mark Thompson was under pressure in year five or year six and they held their nerve. So I think that's a really strong lesson in football

and to a degree life, I think, is if you get an organisation to hold their nerve, recognise who's good and then hold their nerve, well, then success can follow. And so with that sort of template at Geelong, I think that in some ways Mark Thompson and Geelong probably shaped a bit more patience in the whole coaching structure Yeah, and hopefully that's starting to roll through because it's fair to say that shortly after your departure as coach

the Tigers then entered another 35-year performance drought until the recent ascendancy Is it because of that short-termism and also the expectations of the Tiger Army because let's face it, and I'm one of them, let's face it, the supporters are ferocious, they're demanding and very impatient. Do you think that influenced the club

and other clubs over the years? Well, we can get deeply into this, but I also think it comes back to the boards being not able to hold their nerve because of the pressure from outside. and so this is a this is a pricey of the way I have seen and I have been a president I have been on boards I have been you know work with them and this is part of the problem with boards here I go

number one people get on a football club board usually because they're passionate supporters, good thing, and they feel genuinely that they can contribute something, hopefully other than just be part of the deal. Then a bad thing happens. They get a blazer and a tie, and then they go to the president's dinners or president's lunches before games. Then they start enjoying this involvement because they get to sort of take one of the star players home to dinner at night

and then they can go down to the local, I'm being very cynical here, then they go down to the local pub and they're able to sort of say look when I was talking to Dusty Martin, he said this so all of a sudden they have a degree of prestige within the place maybe their wives

quite enjoy also going to the President's dinners who may well be supporters and then things start going badly and they think goodness me, this is not quite so fun anymore or because the supporters are getting restless. We've got to make some decisions here.

Well, I quite like what I'm doing, so I know what we'll do. We'll sack the coach. Or the captain, or exactly right. It sort of doesn't stop there, does it? Yeah. It's the old thing of being perceived to do something, whether something's required or not, and we see that in politics. There's no difference in politics either.

exactly the same approach seems to presume there. Obviously it's changing because under Brendan Gale and Peggy at Richmond, they're adopting a much more business-like approach and there seems to be a degree of separation between a professional board that's treating it as a business rather than just having a good time with the players. Are you seeing that change across the board? I think that

the board of Richmond and look I haven't been totally involved I was more involved when Daniel was there probably and he had been three years at Essendon and I found myself actually becoming keen to see how Essendon were going at the same time

and by the way he's now in charge of the umpire department at the AFL so his friends called him the chief white maggot and That's Xavier, friends. So I lost my train of thought there for a moment.

Yeah, you're talking about the professionalism of the boards now compared to… Yeah, I'd just say Richmond, you know, very, very professional. And I think that Peggy, I think Peggy's a star. Yeah. I think that she's, you know, she's the iron fist in a velvet glove too. um so i know for little things but i know that the board weren't allowed to drink at games for example right not bad you know that sort of uh kind of disciplining permeates uh from the top down again as you would know and what you do you know the uh if you get your organizations right

from the top that whole thing kind of permeates through totally and the ultimate word there is respect, respect for everyone within the organisation from the boot starter all the way through. You can engender that in a football club or you're kind of some of the way there. Yeah, totally agree. Now, sort of talking about the current exercise, I mean, the great Mighty Tigers have won three out of the last four

but they're starting to struggle this season. and, normal story, the fans start making noises. What do you think, and it's obviously about holding the nerve, but the calls are starting, or the Tigers are starting to bark and roar. I haven't really been listening too much, to be honest. And you probably shouldn't, but the concern I have, of course, is that that noise starts to, again, influence. Do you think that there's just a dip in the equation

and what do you think the future for the Tigers is in the short to medium term? Well, again, I think Geelong are not a bad example where they've at least sort of had themselves in a position for 10 years, have a crack at it year after year. and I'm fairly simple about football and I always look at it fairly simply that if their 22 are better than your 22,

they'll usually beat you. And number two, if you take the top six players of any team and you lose three of your top six, then this year Richmond have lost plenty along the way. Sure have. So per game, if you lose three of your top six, say, everyone, including the fans, think it's like a squash team where four goes to one and five goes to two

and you just move up the ladder. No, you're now replacing one, two and three with 27, 28 and 29 on your list. Yeah. And they're liable to be rookies or first gamers, which you've seen at Richmond this year. Yeah. And so your equation, if you'd like to do a golf handicap,

goes from six to 15 overnight. So you can sort of say, oh, injuries are important. And the press are often trite about, they say, oh, everyone has injuries. No, it depends who they are. And I think Richmond at this stage, almost every game they've gone into, they won't be the same three of the top six, but there'll be three of the top six or seven who just haven't been playing,

including guys like Presia, who won the present fairest. Now there's Bolter and another fine defender down back. So they've really been pretty much decimated. And, you know, next year will be interesting as to whether they... One thing does happen as we get older, we're not quite as good. so whereas I think you know Cotchen

Rewald wonderful players but if you look at it objectively you say well you know

is is Cotchen as good now as he was three years ago very very good but as good don't know

you know is Dustin Martin as good as he was in that sensational run maybe maybe not I don't know.

There's a lot of questions to answer, but you've certainly got to hold your nerve and just make sure your recruiting is up to scratch. Well, from where I sit, and I'm not a footballer with bootlice, but the opportunity to blood new players now that we've got such good players out is a great opportunity to start increasing the depth of the club exposed to the game at that level. Mate, again, looking in from the outside, there's only minute differences now that separate one team, and in business it's no different either, in our very hyper-competitive world, and a 1% difference in performance on the day can make a massive difference to the results.

How do you think that elite teams are going to further evolve to distinguish themselves in the future? I'm sorry, just say that again. Yeah, I'm sort of seeing now that there's such a hair-splitting difference in the teams given the way the competition now being set. And this is applicable to business as well, by the way. You know, a 1% difference in performance on the day can make a massive difference to the results. How do you think that elite teams will further evolve to be able to distinguish themselves? And what further changes in leadership style do you think need to evolve to handle the current and ongoing challenges? um yeah on number one you're perfectly correct in sort of saying that you know uh in order to

get a winning edge or a cutting edge um you know becomes more and more difficult and if i sort of go way back to the 70s which is sort of my era and there's no doubt that barassi with north melbourne and the introduction of players like wade and rantel and these guys they at the time were able to create a cutting edge, if you like. Yeah. As it's gone on, because of, you know, the draft and all that sort of stuff, the cutting edge often comes back to recruiting, but here's me with the same old chestnut.

It depends on who you've got playing at the time. Yeah. So if you look at the Tigers over the last three or four years, each grand final they played, there were at least two players who were desperately unlucky to miss out. Yeah. Now, that means that they had a brilliant run with injury in that three or four years.

Yeah. And that this year has turned. Yeah. I look at Collingwood and, you know, Nathan Buckley, who I'd like to say is a good friend of mine, and I look at, so I followed Collingwood reasonably closely over the last two or three years. Well, they've had just a, you know, a nightmarish run with injury.

So poor old Bucks, who could have been a premiership coach except for one kick, has also had to contend with a really decimated list a lot of the time. And so I tend to be, I don't know, probably more of a student of the game now rather than a passionate supporter, if you like. So I think people expect me to be a passionate supporter, and obviously I'm very keen about how the Tigers go, but I'm not a great spectator. I sort of find myself, and a lot of my mates aren't either,

I think probably, and I'll use the word lucky again, if you were lucky enough to play in grand finals in front of 100,000 people, being a spectator is a bit of an anticlimax. Totally. So I sort of find myself being more analytical about the game generally rather than a passionate supporter. And being analytical about it, I always come back to that same old chestnut,

you know, look at the sides who are injury-free with their best players and, you know, and that's where Geelong, I think, this year, are looking pretty good, Bulldogs looking pretty good. Yeah. Because at this stage, they've got a very full list. Yeah, good read. Changing tacks slightly and sort of bringing this together, How do you define true sustainable success, Barry?

I'm sorry, say that again? Yeah, how do you define sustainable success? Okay, well, one of my, you know, I suppose quotes that I try and which I've used already, you know, I think that and I'm probably at the end of a lot of it. But you need to definitely have 10 years' experience through your lifetime rather than one year's experience 10 times. So I've seen people sort of remain in a time warp, and you have too. And I think that sustained success means socially, um certainly on the home front um in in business and in my in my world of physiotherapy was always

have an inquiring mind and above all kind of um surround yourself with good people so not all of us can be clever at everything so you said am i a good investment like Bushy Martin won a few, lost a few but generally I think that any success I've had in that regard has been speaking to the right people

be that the right accountant, the right financial advisor the right whatever if I look at my life I think have an open mind to wise people is part of the deal.

So I think it's sort of a combination of keeping an open mind on all of those things, like socially, home front, work front, sport front, and they can kind of marry with each other and then you end up with whoever you are. Yeah, good call. Now, professionally, I mean, you're very humble, Barry, but you're a pioneer in the sports physiotherapy area and you've stayed at the forefront of your profession

with a client list that looks like the who's who of elite team sport. And I'm talking here about, you know, the cricketing legend Dennis Lilley and the AFL legend Non Barassi, the tennis star Jimmy Connors and even ice skaters Torvin and Dean. How important has physio been to your own health and to others in your life to date? again I keep using the word evolution don't I really that I think sport initially sort of kicked me off and we had a discussion earlier I think Bushy but sport initially when I sort of

first started my practice in Richmond I was a Richmond player and as a Richmond player had some degree of notoriety in that team. And so that made it easier for me to sort of start a practice in Richmond and have Richmond-type people coming through the door. Once that happened, it's not enough to be a name. You've then got to actually earn your stripes, if you like. So slowly but surely, I think that the fact that I had played sport gave me an empathy to sports people and I did quite a lot,

I did a fair amount of it sort of in an honorary fashion. So, for example, I was a physio for the Australian cricket team for, I don't know, four, five, six years with Ian Chappell, Greg Chappell as captain and was a physio during the centenary test before the Packer C stuff took over. Only in Melbourne I didn't travel. But I did a lot of this sort of stuff honorary and as a – I was also a bit of a sporting tragic, but also as a knowledge thing.

So I sort of – I learned along the way. I looked after Dennis Lilly's back a lot, so I sort of learned a bit about that. But I think because I was also, in inverted commas, a sportsman of some ilk, I think that immediately gave me a rapport or respect that may have been harder to win had that not been the case. And then it sort of, as all that evolved, I probably got a name for just treating sportsmen. So, I mean, I was, again, I use the word lucky.

I just, I mean, I treated so many interesting people. You know, the sporting world of Alan Wells was a gold medalist who I treated as Big Scott, Steve Cram. Then I treated Seve Ballesteros in the golfing world, Jack Nicklaus. And that just, again, it just sort of, I think that the fact that I probably had a name as a sports person meant that that immediately got other sports people in the door as someone who understood the pressures of high-level sport.

I don't know that, but I think that's sort of part of it. But then as a parallel, those mentors I talked about, sort of David Wirth, Dr Bill Granger, John Bartlett, I learnt from them. And, you know, rather than sort of being content to just sort of sit back and say, oh, I know it all. We never know it all. And if you're lucky enough to have those sort of people

who come alongside you, then that becomes – well, they become part of your journey. Yes, but I'm not – and just sort of leveraging off that then, given your sort of ongoing approach to always learning, what do you believe are your winning behaviours and non-negotiables that have allowed you to be so successful for so long? Yeah. What you would say is successful.

There's a couple of quotes that are sort of in my mind that are sort of, you know, it's glass half full, glass half empty sort of stuff. You know, I think I've always been probably – there's one quote that I often sort of, you know, have used in my life, you know, when the past interferes with the future, only the future can suffer. So I'm not that good at sort of going back and dwelling on the bad things in the past. I think that I probably tend to be more glass half full and sort of – because once the past is past, you can't do much about it. so when the past interferes with the future only the future can suffer I've also used that quote that I so often ad nauseum during this sort of stuff you know

don't have one year's experience 10 times make sure you kind of evolve with whatever that might be that can be family that can be business that could be life and and then you know if you're in a fortunate position, which I have been. And I think earlier on I talked to you about, you know, coaching the Old Zaverians and the amateurs, you know, the finite part of my coaching career. Well, I got enormous satisfaction out of treating, you know, looking after a lot of those young men who were playing amateur football.

We based our whole, and we were quite successful in A-grade amateurs, based everything on the word respect, respect for each other, respect for everyone around the place. And without being too philosophical and sound like I'm some sort of a white knight, I still think that's probably one of the most important things in my teaching, if you like, is just sort of there's always going to be someone better or worse than you.

So just treat everyone with respect, be they sort of prime ministers or paupers. And if I go back into my physiotherapy career, that probably was a strength. I think that I had great delight in not only talking to some of the people we just mentioned, but also, you know, the guy from wherever, you know, the truck driver, the labourer, the, you know, the fruit shot, I just always found their stories fascinating. And someone sort of, when I was mentoring, which I have done, you know, young physios, they say, my God, how can you possibly be a physio for 50 years?

And I said, really simple, don't treat the injury, treat the person. And once you treat the person, they've all got their story and then life becomes really interesting, I reckon. Yeah, I love that genuine interest in other people. Mate, I've once heard you described as versatile, valiant, valuable and victorious. Do you think this sums up Valerie Richardson pretty well? What was that again?

Versatile, valiant, valuable and victorious. Oh, I've never really thought of it, to be honest, Bushy. it would be it would be a nice sort of um it would be a nice thing to have written about you i guess um oh i think some of that probably is uh okay you know to uh to accept um but i've had a great life i mean my life has been absolutely interesting from you know age 13 or 14 onwards in the farms sort of through school, through football, through work, through marriage, through, you know, with four kids now, seven grandkids.

I think, you know, my life has been absolutely blessed, to be honest. Well, I think you've made it happen. And I'd love for you to share, I mean, off air again, you talked to me about how important your daily fitness routine is and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're around the one to vintage of about 75. talk to us about what your

fitness regime looks like these days and how you keep yourself healthy Oh okay yeah look I think I have been well I know I have been disciplined in that regard and all Monday

Wednesday and Friday so this morning before you I do 20 minutes I can't run anymore because of knees and ankles and things but I do 20 minutes on a stationary bike. I do three three-minute rounds on a heavy bag. I do, because I'm age 75, I do 75 press-ups and 75 sit-ups.

I use rubber bands rather than weights these days because of joints and being a physio. And I do sort of a bit of a Pilates routine. So I work out about an hour and a half Monday, Wednesday and Friday and probably do an hour on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Weekends, I relax and drink. Well, it's certainly… It's called reward, for instance.

Love it. I love it. I just love the passion and the discipline that goes with that, mate. And, you know, I'm one of those age-old field hockey players, Barry. I'll hit my 800th game this year and… How many games? 800. not bad for building blades with sticks

and I'm actually wearing a golf ball size lump on the side of my head from copping a ball in this week but I'm determined to keep going until they tell me that I can't keep going so I'd love now just to transition to what I love to call the ambush round which are just five quick questions

that the listeners love to get your words of wisdom on And you've covered a fair bit of this already, and you've given us some great quotes already, but what is your favourite quote and why? I reckon there's three. Is that too many? No, that's good. Love three.

No. The first one I mentioned before, when the past interferes with the future, only the future can suffer. So that's one. Number two, not so much a quote, but the one of Ed Dunn and Orsium, you know, one year's experience ten times or ten years' experience. And one on a lighter note, the gods do not deduct from man's allotted span the hours spent fishing.

So any hours you spend fishing, you can get added on to your allotted span. I'm a great reader and I read trivia sometimes like that and it just stuck in my mind. Love that one. I love that one. Talking of reading, what's the top book that you'd recommend the listeners have a read of and why?

I just finished War and Peace because of COVID by Tolstoy. That was an interesting experience. I go way back as a reader as a kid I think one of the first books that I loved and read and I read it recently again was The Last of the Mohicans by James Fenimore Cooper

so that's written about the 1830s or something as a literary classic I've just finished Steinbeck Steinbeck so I read

I read a variety of stuff from junky whodunits to some slightly more highbrow. I've got to say, War and Peace, I thought I'll give this a try. I actually thoroughly enjoyed it. Once you actually got into it, I thought it was an amazing book. Yeah, wow. I haven't read that one yet. I'm a rabid reader. Yeah, well, put it there.

It's worth a go. One thing about COVID, it's not the sort of book you can read for three pages before you go to bed at night. You've actually got to have a crack at it, and then it's quite satisfying. Yeah, and I'll definitely do that, mate. Just on the advice front, what's the worst and best piece of advice you've ever received today? Oh, best piece of advice.

Again, I think it's probably not one piece of advice, to be honest. I think I used the word mentors before, and I think all of those people, you know, along the line who give you advice inadvertently sometimes, I think that's my best piece of advice would be be a good listener and just absorb what everyone says, be the princes or the paupers. Yeah, very well said. What about the worst piece of advice that you've ever received? The worst piece of advice I've ever received?

Well, I've got to say, I think we talked about investments. We haven't talked about investments much, but I think the worst piece of advice I've had from investment has been with friends. So if I had my wisdom of hindsight, I think there's two or three cracks at various things. Things outside my expertise have been not the best of advice. So in reverse, as a physiotherapist, stick to physiotherapy

and I do think in my life really what I've tried to do is just do the best you can, be the best footballer, be the best physiotherapist, be the best husband, be the whatever and the rewards will come accordingly. So if you put it in a sporting parlance, focus on the process rather than the result and that does apply to sport very much so and I think it also probably related to my life as a physio as well that if I focused on being the best I could be as a physio,

well, the monetary rewards or the financial rewards probably follow rather than the other way around. Totally agree and you're absolutely right. But if you keep on improving the process, then the results will come. No doubt about that. You probably covered this already as well, but what's the critical personal habit that you have that you think has contributed most to your success?

Oh, I think the discipline of staying as fit as I could be. I think I've always been – we came back to Tommy Hayfey a bit on that. You know, just sort of maintaining a sit life. And I'm probably jumping ahead a bit here too, but if we go back three or four years ago, I was over in Exmouth, of all places, went swimming with the whale sharks on the... Arrived on a Wednesday and swam with the whale sharks on Thursday,

which was just fantastic. And I had a massive heart attack on a Friday. so I ended up with a double bypass flying doctor the whole of the lot but the surgeon at the time because I was an hour out of x-mouth said that um there's probably no doubt that you you know you saved your life by being fit and I've gone oh well that's not bad so all those um all those days of doing a routine. And do I love exercise? Not really, but I do love what it achieves.

And if I look back to that as a little template, I think maybe it was worthwhile after all. So the surgeon said, number one, probably kept you alive until you got here, and number two, your recovery will be so much better because of the fact you have maintained that sort of lifestyle. So that was a good lesson and one that I'm grateful for. Yeah, I hadn't realised any of that and there's a great testimony really

to the importance of keeping fit. And as you say, I'm a bit the same. I've got a regular routine and do I particularly enjoy it? No. Are there days when you don't feel like doing it? Absolutely. But do you keep on doing it? Yes.

And there's the fruits of what you've just spoken about because if you hadn't have done that routine, and you may not be with us, Barry. That's what I'm hearing from what you've just said. Very quickly on that, I've got a great mate called Neville Roberts. Neville played at Richmond for three years, and I certainly have been his mentor for a long time. And we went over to Bruce Monteith's wedding over in Perth

and drank far too much. So I was the coach, and he was a player. Anyway, 6 o'clock, I bashed on his hotel door and said, right over up we were running he said well you've got to be kidding me I'm feeling crook I said no no no you've got to pay the toll son you've got to pay the toll anyway so I took

him on a murderous run complete with hangover and to this day Neville who became a fabulous player in South Australia he did you know all of the above he still curses me because he gets up

and says I've got to pay the toll pay the toll that's a it's a really good pay the toll so i you know i'm very happy not so much these days but like all of us i've imbibed too often or sorry too much on occasions and um always made sure that i paid the toll the next day love it mate uh wrap all this up there's a the the big question uh i give you an opportunity to really summarize your outlook on life if i gave you a microphone that spoke to every single one of the 7.7 billion people that are currently alive in the world, and I gave you 60 seconds to talk, what would you say? Oh, I'd probably have said it all.

I think, Bushy, I've probably almost sort of talked you out of noising about sort of you know, some of those, you know, philosophies, if you like, on life. But I would just say it's a journey. Life is a journey, not a destination. The destination comes fast enough. But really to sort of don't enter the dark parts of your past. Always look forward to the next phase of whatever that life might be. The great Muhammad Ali used to talk about closing one door of one room

and moving to the next one. And I would say that if I was to advise that one billion people was saying that, yeah, when that past interferes with the future, the future will suffer. So close the door on that room and move to the next one and just stay positive. and love, you know, love those around you. Mate, very well said.

I feel very privileged to have had such a generous chat with you today. This has been a big tick on my bucket list, mate, to have a chat to the famous Barry Richardson. So I really appreciate you spending time with us today and I know that everyone's going to get a lot of wisdom and gold out of what you've shared with us. Can I give you one little light moment just before all that happens? Absolutely.

I was in Maroochydore Airport, I reckon it must have been 15 or 20 years ago, in Maroochydore Airport, and this guy came up and looked at me and he said, did you used to be Barry Richardson? I said, yeah, I guess I was. so so it was good for the ego anyway used to be very rich I used to be yeah well the one thing about you mate you haven't yet you've uh uh life's been very kind to you mate because uh you've preserved your appearance pretty consistently right from the very perhaps a little bit more snow on the roof but otherwise uh uh you've uh you've traveled

You've handled it extremely well, mate. So, look, again, really appreciate you spending time with us today. It's been an absolute pleasure and I've really enjoyed it and look forward to staying in touch. The pleasure is mine, Bushy. The pleasure is mine. Thanks very much. Thanks, mate.

Cheers. To get a summary of all this investment gold in the show notes, just email me on hello at khgroup.com.au. That's H-E-L-L-O at khgroup.com.au or check us out at www.bushymartin.com.au forward slash GetInvested. I look forward to joining you next week for another episode of the Get Invested podcast.

So thanks for listening. And as always, dream as if you live forever and live as if you die tomorrow. Thank you.