Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Cam Sullings & Renee Bogatko on the pulse of property

Episode Date: February 24, 2023

When you're involved in property media, you have a rare opportunity to keep your finger on the pulse of Australian property, according to radio hosts Cam Sullings and Renee Bogatko. Spending your days talking to property experts and industry leaders enables you to learn what's going on and where in the fast moving world of real estate, you learn to distill information to understand what's important and what's not, and then help your audience action the insights.  This is the world that Cam and Renee live in, as hosts of Canberra Mix 106.3's Real Estate Show. Cam has been in the media game for over 30 years, and Renee has been a journo for 15+ years. They've acquired a wealth of learnings about Australia's second most expensive property patch, Canberra, and more broadly where things are heading at a national level. Enjoy, and tune in and catch up on 'The Real Estate Show' on Canberra's Mix 106.3. Three easy ways to Get Invested right now: 1. Subscribe to this podcast now, if you haven’t already, and get the inspiration delivered to your podcast feed each week 2. Get a copy of my book, Get Invested, for FREE, and find out what it takes for you to invest in living more, working less. Go to: https://knowhowproperty.com.au/get-invested-free-ebook  3. Join the Get Invested community. Each month Bushy sends a free and exclusive monthly email full of practical ‘Self, Health and Wealth’ wisdom that our current Freedom Fighter subscribers can’t wait to get each month. Just visit bushymartin.com.au, scroll to the bottom of the page and sign up. About Get Invested, a Property Hub show Get Invested is the leading weekly podcast for Australians who want to learn how to unlock their full ‘self, health and wealth’ potential. Hosted by Bushy Martin, an award winning property investor, founder, author and media commentator who is recognised as one of Australia’s most trusted experts in property, investment and lifestyle, Get Invested reveals the secrets of the high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and the world around them. Get Invested is part of the Property Hub podcast channel, your home for property investment insights, inspiration and stories from Australia’s top property experts, investors, leaders and analysts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotifyand Google Podcasts to get every Get Invested episode each week for free, and also get full access to RealtyTalk, Australia’s top online property show for red hot property investing news and insights direct from property industry leaders and influencers. Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, show producer Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media.  For business and partnership enquiries, send an email to: [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

When I think about sustainable success, I think it's about, for me anyway, it's about setting goals and listing your goals, setting realistic goals and working out how you're going to achieve them and what kind of timeline you're looking at. but to make that sustainable, it's checking in with that list every, you know, three, six months and saying, okay, how am I going financially? How am I going at work? How am I going with my family? What do I need to change anything in this space? So it's that constant checking in and reassessing of those goals to make it sustainable and long-term. Yeah, absolutely. So I agree with everything that Renee has said there. I'm a big fan of ex-Navy SEAL and ultra marathon competitor David Goggins and he's recently in Australia and presented under the banner of adapt or die and so there were a number of really key learnings out of

that and it is it's all about making those small changes considered changes you know and taking those calculated risks and then sometimes just having a go and taking a risk and and having all that in place but knowing that you have to do that because if you just continue on the same path that you're taking many times you will just get squashed and so adapt or die welcome to get invested the leading weekly podcast to help you unlock your full potential and enjoy your version of sustainable success that lies at the intersection of your three elves yourself, your health and your wealth. I'm your host and guide Bushy Martin and each week we go deep sharing great conversations with proven experts in all walks of life including the best

investors, property experts, analysts, leaders, founders, sports stars and health gurus to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills and their money and the benefits that this creates. To help you find out what it takes to break free from the grind and discover your flavor of freedom, to create your freedom formula. You see, the truth is that everyone invests. Every second of every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy, and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, and sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen.

not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less and live your legacy by investing now. You'll enjoy the stories and secrets of high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and discover the top tips on how to get started, how to make the most of your investment journey and ultimately to be living your dream, not someone else's. As you engage in each episode, you'll glean the information, inspiration and implementation that you need to get empowered and get invested in imagining and actioning the life that you've always dreamed about. And Get Invested is proudly part of Property Hub, your home for property investment insights

and inspiration. Make sure you subscribe now on your favourite podcast player to get every episode of Get Invested and Realty Talk, which is Australia's leading and longest running online Property Show that's full of red-hot property investing news and insights direct from all of the industry leaders and influencers. You can also connect with me personally and join the Get Invested community of fellow Freedom Fighters at bushymartin.com.au or on knowhowproperty.com.au. Now, let's get invested. hi friend and fighters now one of the great benefits of hosting both the property hubs get invested podcast and the realty talk show is that i get the pleasure of rubbing shoulders with

and getting to know and build relationship with all of the giants and leaders in the property industry and one of the great benefits of being a host that talks to a wide variety of property aficionados in all spheres of this fast-moving world of real estate is that after a while you get a really good sense of the pulse of property in terms of what's going on where and what's likely to happen moving forward. As you tend to sit in the centre of the swirling and whirling property universe, taking the time to observe and listen to a wide range of views. So we really do get to enjoy a very privileged position that gives us great insights at the leading edge of the industry. And one of the other great flow-ons, thanks to my partner in crime and living legend,

Kevin Turner. So I also get to appear on a host of shows on radio, TV and other mediums around the country. And one that I really enjoy and I actually look forward to every month, first thing on a Saturday morning as I sip my first intravenous cup of coffee for the day, is spending time on Canberra Mix 106.3's real estate show, where I'm humbled to share the microphone with a constellation of shining property lights. But today, I actually get to turn the tables and hand the blindfold and cigarette back to the co-hosts and local legends of the Nation's Capital Property Show to share their accumulated wealth of wisdom on real estate and Canberra property conditions in particular. Given it's actually now the second most expensive real estate patch in the country

and as its own distinct territory and the centre of all things government, it also enjoys its own unique property economy. I'm talking of course about the reigning voices of real estate in the ACT, the infamous Cam Sullings and Rene Bogachko. So I completely he stuffed that up as I thought I knew I would. And they, of course, are now beaming to us directly from the station in my favourite Australian city. So, welcome to The Property Hub and let's get invested, Cam and Renee. Mate, thank you so much for having us. And we love having you on the show, Mix 106.3, in the nation's capital on a sort of every four weeks or so and listening to your insights. So, we're excited, aren't we? Yeah, we're excited. We're usually each week, you know,

the ones behind the mic talking to other people, which we love. So, it's a bit special for us to kind of be flipping the switch in a way, so to speak. And I'm going to make you pay for it, guys, don't you worry. Oh, I bet you are. I guess just to kick things off, while we know each other pretty well and everyone in Canberra knows both of you extremely well, the audience that we're talking to today covers all over the country and even expats overseas.

So to sort of kick things off, I'd like you to both give us a quick rundown on who you are, what you do differently in particular, and most importantly, why you do what you do, guys. there you go all right well um i'm a journalist so i work here in the newsroom at 106.3 and 104.7 um as a journo i've been in media for over 15 years but i've been at the station here for about nine or so years um started out in a casual capacity and have just been working here full time and part-time ever since but uh i'm also a mum i've got a 10 year old daughter and a one year old daughter so they keep me very busy on top of uh everything that we've got happening here

um so yeah when i'm it's either mum or or work uh career person i guess you could say trying to juggle the both but um i've got a very supportive network around me uh cam who's awesome my family my colleagues and everyone sort of helps me um you know try and strike that right balance there So I guess in terms of what I do differently, I'm not sure. I was chatting to Cam about this, actually, and he said you're the most organised person in the world. And I know that I'm organised, but I think Cam sort of does take the cake there. But I think because we are similar in that way, I think it helps, you know.

Yeah. What's the big why for you, Renee? What's that? Sorry? What's the big why? What's your driving force? Why do you do what you do? Oh, goodness me.

I think family, like for me, it comes back to family and career loving what you do. And I think if you love what you do and have a really good, strong, supportive network around you that supports that and encourages that, then I think that's what life's about. So that's why I do what I do. Yeah, perfect. And what about you, Cam? Yeah, so I have a 31-year broadcasting career in radio. I grew up in Sydney in the southern suburbs down at the beaches near Cronulla there.

And my first radio job was at 2BH in Broken Hill doing nights. So that was a very big shock to the system as a young guy. And I mapped out a radio career. I landed here in Canberra in the year 2000. and I've worked on both commercial stations, 104.7 and where we are now, Mix 106.3. I ended my full-time radio career at the end of 2012 with a five-year plan of going out into corporate world and learning how to set up a business and run a business. I wanted to work for myself. So I took on three different roles that gave me really, really good experience.

And while all that was happening, I also built my business in the background. So surrounded myself with some pretty smart business people, developed and wrote a business plan, a marketing plan, put all my digital and messaging assets in place and ready to go. And so we hit the button in 2019. We hit the go button. So I run my own business. Present with Impact is the name of it. I've just changed over from sole trader into company, which is really exciting because it has been hugely successful. I offer four core services. Number one, presenter for hire. So my radio each Saturday and other work I do at Mix sits into that umbrella. I do sports presentation. I emcee events. I host conferences. I appear on videos. I do all sorts

of things. So that's service number one. Service number two, I show CEOs and executives how to speak and communicate with impact. Service number three, I do the same and very similar but to group workshops. And then service number four, I help people and organisations navigate media crisis. So when something goes wrong, I help them to navigate that process and I train them and show them how to communicate well in the media. So it's been going incredibly well and I feel very lucky that even though I've worked very hard, I've been here at Canberra FM, which is the two radio stations. I've been here for now 23 years and I still love working on the radio and then I can walk away and run my own business as well. So it's pretty cool. Absolutely cool. Tell me then

from both of your perspectives, why the interest in property that's led you to be hosting a property dedicated show yeah well we sort of fell into the into the show uh i'd been hosting a saturday morning sports show for many many years on both stations uh and then that sort of evolved into a community and event style program which is where renee then came uh to be part of what we were doing so that was always eight in the morning through until 10 and renee was very much part of the first hour we had a program director or content director as we call them these days come in and he said that he had had really good success in putting real estate shows into FM commercial radio and and letting presenters grow with the show and learn how to do it because

and so when when we did this research off air at the beginning of the year when did we when did we start when was it well both shows started about six and a half years ago and so um like cam said i was doing the first hour and then um he had another presenter with him doing the real estate show um and then that ended and so our content director said why don't you come on and just do the full two hours together and i think it was a lot um initially the real estate show was quite data-based and data heavy a lot about numbers and so we turned it i guess you could say into a much more of a relatable program because we both with the skill sets i guess that we bring we know what questions to ask and who to ask them to and we're also quite comfortable um sharing our

own lives and experiences on the show so we bring that um to the show and we think a lot of people can sort of relate to things that we're going through and things that we talk about. Yeah, the first hour I actually hosted with the wonderful Dr. Nicola Powell, who does a wonderful job in real estate and she's a data scientist. So yeah, that first 60 minutes or the first year of it was very data driven. Renee and I both don't have a background in real estate. And so when we came together, we said, okay, how are we going to do this? So what we decided was we would just do breakfast radio and we both have experience in breakfast radio but it would be real estate and so we go out and we do we look for a wide range of content opportunities and we just always

have our real estate content radars on and so when we're out and about we're looking and seeing and speaking to people going right that's a great bit that we can bring back to the show because I don't work at the radio station we produce it off-site so um you know we have a catch up on email you know early in the week and bounce our ideas and then put the show together go away organize the interviews and and then each saturday nine through until ten we're on yeah and i guess um just to add to that it's kind of got to a point now we've been doing it a while so we have friends and just family and people in the community who sort of come to us and um tell us what they're going through with property in in their lives and what it means to them and can you find out for me you

know what's going to happen in 2023 with the supply chain yes we can find out for you um so that's where a lot of it comes from as well yeah i love it what i love about property is a great level there's no one type of property person every person in australia has a fascination with property in one one form or another so bringing that sort of people element to your show i think sets it it apart from a lot of others who can be a little bit dry and unless you're right in it can be as boring as bat poo. So I love the way you do that. And having listened to the show and been part of the show for some time now, and I'll plug this a few times during our chat today, I would really encourage anyone who has an interest in property to tap in to Mix 106.3's real estate show because

it's not just about Canberra. Yes, it has a bit of a flavour, but it also brings some gold that applies to property right across the board so great stuff guys well i'm going to put you on the spot now and i just want to ask both of you to share something unique or interesting about you that you've never actually shared publicly before and this is going to be hard for you too because you're in the uh in the media's eye all the time yeah that is a really tricky one because um having uh experienced um being on the drive show that we have here through the week um in the past as well that was bring yourself all the time so i feel like everyone knows everything about me um so that's a bit of a tricky question for me to answer cam does anything spring to your mind

okay so exactly the same for me and i always used to laugh and i still do when i was hosting the mix 106.3 breakfast show um for a number of years i used to uh and so this will be my haven't spoken too much about this um publicly but i basically used to use that radio show as a marriage marriage counselling platform because anything in my relationship with my beautiful wife Ali anything that took place you know to almost 99% of what was happening in our lives at home then became an exercise of okay this happened at home Ali said that I went no way and then we just you know put it out to the Canberra people and it could be guaranteed Renee and Bushy that it was me who was incorrect most of the time.

Yeah, that sounds about right. You're pretty quick to agree there, aren't I? Yeah. Let me just chuck something else in there. What's something that's interesting about you that probably the rest of the country doesn't know that you'd love to share? Well, I'm from Canberra, so I have been lucky enough to work here and live here my whole life.

I ventured out for work experiences here and there, but I'm from here and I have no intentions to leave at the moment. I've got a family here, a growing family, and so I just love Canberra and everything about it. I think it's got a lot to offer. Obviously, there's all the property stuff, but for families, for working people, I think that Canberra is just unbiased, obviously,

but I think it's just one of the best places to be, and I'd be happy to spend the rest of my time here. Yeah, and I'm going to jump in on the back of that. There's two very different places here in Canberra. There's everything that happens up there on the hill, and then there is eons away, there is an amazing Canberra community here that is very generous, very supportive. We have wonderful schools. We have all of our national institutions.

We've got beautiful open spaces. This is an amazing place to live and bring the kids up. And, you know, yes, we are here as the centre of policy and politics, and, you know, we run the country out of here. But at the end of the day, politicians come into Canberra and they're only here for the 20 weeks or whatever it is, and then they go back into their electrics. We continue as a thriving community in our beautiful,

cool climate wine regions that surround us in Murrumbateman and other areas, and we just have so much here to offer. And I have lived around Australia and, you know, I very quickly learned that this is one of the best-kept secrets in the country. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I extremely well see it. As an ex-architect, one of the reasons I love Canberra from a design perspective, I used to major in urban design and planning,

and Walter Burley Griffin and the crew just did an awesome job at creating a really vital, dynamic place with plenty of parklands. and it's a planner's dream actually in that context with beautiful vistas and it's just a sensational environment. So I can imagine that the community feeling around that would be awesome, guys. Guys, I'm just going to sort of pivot and change tack a little bit and sort of, again, I want you each to share what challenging event in your life so far has brought about your greatest learnings

and your best changes. Yep, okay, I'll have a go. So, and I'm going to lean on creating and then establishing, again, hitting the go button on this business. And that was a big, bold decision to do that. And it's one of those ones where you just absolutely have to back yourself and you make plenty of mistakes on the way. You learn from those mistakes. I'm very lucky because I had many, many years of waking up at 3 o'clock in the morning to work on breakfast shows. and now I also wake up at three o'clock

and four o'clock in the morning to make sure that what I'm doing is working and it's not just working now, but I'm setting myself up for the next six months, 12 months and then for however long that I can continue to operate. And so it's been wildly challenging and hugely, I don't know, I've got a lot out of it.

I get to speak to amazing peoples and share people's stories and people who are in business and running small business and large business, you know, you can have those conversations that no one else will understand. And so I really enjoyed that element. And, you know, while, you know, so people say you can't have any regrets.

Well, I disagree. I think you can have a couple of regrets and you would definitely have changed things, but you can't live your life by saying, you know, I should have done this and I should have done this and I should have done this. i'm i'm very happy that i am where i am at the moment but gee i would have loved to have done it 20 years ago as well so so that i could be experiencing that sort of you know over the last

20 years or 30 years and if i had my time over again i would definitely have started a small business in some capacity um so that i could have experienced what i'm experiencing now yeah i love it ken what about yourself renee um i guess a couple of things come to mind in terms of challenges and how I've learned from them. The first one is probably a bit personal, but about sort of nine or 10 years ago, there was a family breakdown in my family. And so that kind of, you know,

I found myself as a single mom of a one-year-old. And so I had to reset and change my life and just get on with things. So that was very challenging, but also a really good learning experience you know for me as well for sure um I think another one this is probably much more recent I've sort of started venturing uh with Cam's help venturing more into the world of um emceeing events and hosting events and it's something that I've done a little bit of here and there you know at school I was always in the debating team at school and

going in all the public speaking competitions and doing all those sorts of things and working in journalism so all those skills that kind of lended itself to this space but now I'm venturing into doing more of it and I think why I found it challenging I sort of thought why is a room full of 500 people or a thousand people going to necessarily care what I have to say but then I realized you know they they do care about what I've got to say and I do have things to say and share with them and i think it kind of comes back to that whole thing about just being um open with your life kind of how we are on the radio just like you have to bring that to other jobs uh that you do as well so i guess that's been a real learning experience and step up and have a go

right and step up and have a go i've sort of always known that i think that that's something i could do and be good at and now that i'm doing more and more i think it's um it's been really enjoyable and a really good learning experience. I've got to be a bit careful though, Bushy, because she's very good. She's taken all my gigs. Oh, no. She's cutting your lunch, mate. No. Yeah, I'll tell you what, I don't think a lot of people appreciate, though, how cut and thrust the media world is these days. And, you know, for both of you to survive so long and do so well and branch out and use those skills and leverage them into other things, I take my hat off to you guys, because there's not many people who have the courage to,

and the persistence and resilience to work through that. But I want to flip to the other end of the equation now and just ask you both what do you believe is your definition of sustainable success and how are you achieving it and are there any learnings for others that they can pick up from that? Well, I think when I think about sustainable success, I think it's about, for me anyway, it's about setting goals and and ham again has also helped me in this space um listing your goals setting realistic goals and

and working out how you're going to achieve them and what kind of timeline you're looking at but i think to make that sustainable it's it's checking in with that list every you know three six months and saying okay how am i going financially how am i going at work how am i going with my family what do i need to change anything in this space so it's that constant checking in and reassessing of those goals to to make it sustainable and long term yeah absolutely so i agree with everything that renee has said there i'm a big fan of ex-navy seal and ultra marathon um competitor competitor david goggins and um he's recently in australia and presented under the banner of adapt or die and so there were a number of really key learnings out of that and

it is it's all about making those small changes considered changes you know and taking those calculated risks and then sometimes just having a go and taking a risk and and having all that in place but knowing that you have to do that because if you just continue on the same path that you're taking many times you will just get squashed and so adapt or die you know it's relevant to so many things it's relevant to what we do you mentioned a short while ago about sustainable careers in radio well radio out of the three traditional mass medias has has best worked with the new format of digital media and all the digital media platforms out of television and newspapers and radio radio definitely works much better and radio was the first of the three

platform mass medias to realize that it had to work with digital now you know we see with newspapers you know the newspapers the physical newspaper is almost gone now um television is wonderful but there's so many channels and so it's 10 miles wide and an inch deep if you're looking to advertise whereas radio and digital work beautifully together now radio could be dead if we didn't realize that and so that you know you've you've got to you've got to take those calculated risks and risks and try and you know predict what's going to happen in the future of course no one can do that. But you've got to have a go at doing it. Totally. And I think we're on the cusp of another great revolution around the sort of open AI world that's about to hit us with a tidal wave.

And there's the opportunities for people like yourself who can grasp that and use it to your advantage. Others who sit back and stick their head in the sand will probably get drowned in the event. But guys, let's now sort of jump to the future a little bit. And as you know, I'm a big advocate of living by design. So I'd love for you both just to very briefly Paint us a vivid word picture of your life vision and your ideal lifestyle to set the scene for us. Okay. So for us, I grew up in the surf, swimming, playing water polo,

you know, at the beach pretty much my whole life. And so for us, my wife and I will eventually have some sort of property interest down the coast. We don't know what part of the world that's going to be yet. And it's not going to be some sweeping McMansion that backs onto the beach. We just can't afford to do that. You can still have a beautiful house one or two streets back from the beach and you can take three minutes to walk to the beach.

And so that's what we're aiming to do. And, you know, we'll still have a presence here in Canberra, but we're definitely heading down to the coast somewhere. I'd love to have a look in a perfect world. I'd love to have a 10-car garage with a whole bunch of vehicles in there and, you know, I've joked about this before to other people, my perfect day in the future will be one of two things, either get up early and surf the morning glass, get home,

have a shower and then go over to the golf course and play 18 holes or do it the other way around, golf in the morning and surf in the sunset. So that's it. That's the dream. Before we get your view on that, Rene, I'd love for you, Cam, to talk to us about in the context of that vision, what are you and will you invest in to make that a reality and what part of any is property going to play in that?

Yeah, okay. So I think we'll probably expand on this as the podcast goes by, but we do have a property interest up north of Newcastle in a beautiful little place called Nelson Bay. and so that is either going to support what we're going to be doing or it might even be the place that we go to. I've been burned a couple of times badly by both financial advisors and also real estate advice but it's only been in the last couple of weeks through a conversation with another person in business and they were talking about a financial advisor that they have started

and began a relationship with and it's a person who I they're from Canberra and I knew them about 20 years ago it had quite a lot to do with this person about 20 years ago and it's just a person who I you know knew was doing what he was doing but I didn't know how well he was doing it so we're now actually in the process of my wife Ali and I we're in the process of sitting down with this person and just mapping out what the next 5, 10, 15 and then 20 years it looks like for us. Sounds great. Now, I'm guessing, Renee, that your vision is going to be very Canberra-centric, given what you've shared with us already. But sort of paint that out for us a little bit. And again, talk to us about what you're investing in and will invest in to make

that a reality. Well, what Cam was just talking about sort of lends to, on The Real Estate Show, we have the Property of the Week segment every week where we feature a different property. And a lot of the time it's a really uh fancy big mansion with all the bells and whistles and gosh I would not say no to one of those uh but um you know thinking realistically as long as I'm happy and comfortable in my work environment and in my home and in my family environment then I'm happy um you know but I wouldn't say no to a luxury yacht if someone threw it my way i have to say um but in terms of you know we would love to um you know possibly expand our family and uh we've just moved into a home um late last year and that whole experience happened sort of

in the thick of the covid craziness so that's a story in itself um but i have my own little investment property the house i lived in i moved in with my one-year-old um a long time ago and we rented that for several years and then I bought it in 2020. So we have that sort of bubbling away in the background and we'll sort of continue to ride the current wave and weather the current storm with all the interest rate rises, so to speak, to try to maintain that. But my partner and I have spoken about, you know, we would love to have another investment property here in Canberra at some stage down the track, but that's definitely much further down the track, I think.

Yeah, love it, love it. But having the goal in the first place is the key piece because that becomes a magnet that's going to attract you to make that happen. Guys, talking investment generally, and I'm not just talking about property now, but it can be skills, resources, you name it. If you look over your life so far, what's been both your best and worst investments and what have you learned from each of those um oh goodness

okay so as far as best and worst investment and this is uh this is you'll understand when this story plays out what it means so our worst investment and best investment is indeed our property at nelson bay and so the way we came about acquiring that was i went to uh again as I said earlier, we've been burned by financial advisors and this was one particular instance. So it was 2009 and we were ready to invest in property. And so I went to this person who I trusted and that person gave me bad advice and he exposed me to what I now believe strongly to be a property criminal. And this person is indeed facing charges in New Zealand for some of the property transactions and the amount of people whose lives he wrecked. And so it was a short

stay accommodation property opportunity that was built in Nelson Bay by developers. It was not selling. And so this guy came in and acted as the conduit between people wanting to buy and then executing the deal. And so it was all set up by... And we just made every mistake that you hear we made, this person sat us down and said, what do you want in 20 years time? We want this and this and this. And it was stars in our eyes. And he said, he talked to us and gave us all the charts and all the great property sales, all the things that you watch crooks do. And we just got sucked in by it. And so we didn't buy just one of these units. We invested in two. And it was after about 12 months or so that I realized that we had made a very bad error. And I was deeply upset because

we exposed my little family into financial hardship. And so we navigated all of that. We ended up selling one of the properties at a loss of about, I think it was about $20,000. So we did that quite a few years ago. But what it did do, and so that's the bad bit, and we got burned badly. If I had taken my money and in 2009 invested in a property in Canberra, I would have made my money three times over by now and I would have been able to invest off the back of that investment into other properties and I would have been able to build a really good property portfolio. But that's not the way it went. So that's the bad element of the story. The good element of the story was that because it was and is short stay accommodation,

we were actually allowed to at any time of the year go up and stay in it and so every year for a week and a half we packed the family up and we went up in the in the biting middle of the Canberra winter we went up to Nilsen Bay and enjoyed a week and a half in beautiful sunshine and did all the things the golf course is across the road it's got a great little marina and so we were able to have some beautiful family memories in this place and so as we pay it down and you know this was another thing. It was done up with negative gearing and interest only and all the things that you shouldn't do. This property was all set up like that. So now we're paying down the capital and sooner or later we will own this place and it might be the place that we go and retire into.

Yeah, well, it's a bad story turned good. What about yourself, Renee? I'd say there's a couple of things that spring to mind in terms of good investments. The worst one is a bit tricky. I'm sure my time will come in that space. But I guess the first one with work for me, I've invested a lot of time in my work. So I started going out interning, doing work experience before I even graduated.

And so I think I've just been putting my hand up everywhere, anyone that will listen to try and get as much work experience when I first started. And I think that investment in my learning and my skills and my career has sort of helped me get the jobs that I have got since. And I guess that kind of links in with being able to afford to buy my own place, which I did in 2020. And so that little house is just two little small bedroom house, two bedroom house in North Canberra. um and it was it still is a massive learning experiences because there's been lots of ups and downs with that one for sure but i think um i can only view it as a good investment because

i've learned a lot from it we've been able to use you know the equity from that to help buy the house that we're currently living in which we love we only got that um last year and it's you know it ticks most of the boxes of what we had what we wanted to get it's in the location we want. It's near my daughter's school. It's near my family and where they live. So, I think it's all those sort of steps I took early on that kind of have led to where I am now in my work and family space. Yeah. Yeah. I love that journey. Well, I want to sort of now jump into the heart of the conversation today and that's revolving around your real estate show and the Canberra property market in particular. So to kick that off, Cam, can you share with us in all of your

time as the host of the Mix 106.3's Real Estate Show, and given all of the industry leaders that you've had an opportunity to share time with, what are some of the biggest takeaways that you've both taken from the show today? Yeah, I suppose the volatility of every market, and we're definitely seeing that at the moment. One thing that I, and I always speak about this when I'm on stage, so I host many and I'm part of many charity events. And I always talk about, because there's usually an auction at those charity events. And so who does the auction? Well, the local real estate agent does. And so I love talking about the fact that real estate agents give back and they're able to give back to the community via donating their time into coming and doing these

auctions. And so while real estate agents, and in many cases, deservedly so, have a bit of a tarnished reputation, I've certainly learned in Canberra, but then wider as well, there's many people who are in it for the right reasons and they do give back to the community. So within the Canberra community, there's this real estate community as well. And we see them come together at awards nights that React put on and the Property Council put on. And for the most, it's a pretty good group of people. There's definitely some of those agents whose egos arrive 10 minutes before they do. And so there's that in all elements of life. So I've learned that there is a really beautiful real estate community that is thriving and wants to do for the most the

right thing. As far as property is concerned, and we have seen in the last couple of years through COVID and just what happened. And one of the things at the beginning of COVID when we were still on air, thankfully, and we were still doing the real estate show and we had to change what we were doing a little bit. But of course, we saw all the property doomsayers and doomsdayers come out straight away and say the property industry is just going to fall over. that's it that's it for everyone we're all gone and i listened to those media commentators and the so-called experts and we were on air pretty much saying straight away saying let's just take a breath for a moment because no one knows what's going to happen with anything and that's definitely

the case with real estate as well and that proved to be the case definitely we saw what happened with real estate. Yeah, well said. What about yourself, Renee? Any big takeaways from the time you've spent in the real estate show? Yeah, definitely. There's a couple. The first one, I guess, links to what Cam was just talking about. But the biggest one of all probably would be to expect the unexpected. We can't predict what's going to happen. A lot of our guests have told us over the time if you're a buyer and or a seller do buy or sell when it's right for you because we can't predict I mean we can kind of look at and guess what we think is going to happen you know so many months however long down the track but if you're ready if you have all your

ducks in a row then just do it take that leap when it's right for you and I guess Cam talked a lot about that COVID period. We all had to adapt. We all experienced the significant changes in the market from that. But then since then, all of these interest rate rises, no one predicted that they would hit us as hard as what they have. So we've all had to adapt. I know the number of people, you know, like owner occupiers in Canberra who've had to refinance, those figures have been going through the roof i'm one of those people um you know so to expect the unexpected i think is a big takeaway but the second one i think would be to enjoy the process as well because there's a lot of positive things in real estate and property and there's a lot to be said for

the space it's easy to get bogged down in the the numbers and the predictions and the stresses of it all but there's also a lot of pride and satisfaction that comes with being involved in real estate in the numerous different ways you can be involved so I think there's a lot to be enjoyed about it and I think sometimes we can forget that yeah I think there's a there's a lot to be said about looking at the numbers so people you know put these values on real estate and a really good piece of advice that was spoken about on our show, possibly last year, the year before maybe, was if a house is worth $2 million and that's the real estate value, it's really only worth that at three particular times when it comes to sell, when it comes to buy, or when it

comes to refinance. Other than that, it's a place to live and thrive and bring up your family or whatever it is that you're doing in life. So, there's two very, very different lenses that you can look at it through. Yeah. Yeah. Extremely well said. I've always said myself, it's never a matter of when to buy a property because it's when it's right for you. It's a matter of what and where you're going to do that that's the the key piece and taking that longer term view uh rather than try and pick tops and bottoms which no one ever gets right if it's if it's doing its job and it's satisfying your purpose then that's all it needs to do so when our when our guests come onto the show and they

start making big bold predictions i always remind them that the tape is rolling and the next time they appear um we will be measuring their comments against what is actually happening and replaying their comments. Love it, love it. Mate, Bushy, for you, we definitely do that all the time. We've got four tapes rolling. We know I'm here with us, mate. Well, here's my great opportunity to get you on tape giving us your TV predictions

of where it's going to happen. So before I do that, though, let's have a look at, you know, what were your key take-homes on property in the last year because it was a pretty interesting year, and then we'll jump into the future and get your read on that side. Yeah, so I'm very, very lucky. I, each week and sometimes twice a week, I go out and shoot videos with a local platform, zango.com, and it is a local real estate platform. So I get to, I'm at the coalface with the real estate agents many times. There's lots and lots of conversations and things that we speak about. And so at the end of 2021, you know, open homes in Canberra were getting 80 groups through and 90 groups through. And the prices were, you know, the 26 percent year on year and just ridiculous percentages.

And that was being reflected elsewhere, but very much so here in Canberra. And so last year at the beginning of 2022, of course, the talk was that there's no way that that can be sustainable. unsustainable. And of course, it wasn't. Things started to cool down and they are continuing to cool with the interest rates and a few other things that are happening that are causing that. And so I suppose the big thing was the real estate agents who were young real estate agents coming into the business in 2021 were going, whoa, I don't even have to do hardly any messaging. I'm getting 50 people. And the older, more crusty real estate agents who have been around the block a few times of just going, yeah, that's not always going to be the case. And so those are definitely

the conversations that we're having out there on the ground. And the big talk is now is when is it going to bottom out and when is it going to start turning around? And I've had this conversation with a number of real estate agents, especially over the last couple of months. And of course, with the recent rate hike, the RBA needs to be very, very, very careful with what they're doing and we had this conversation on air when I was filling in for breakfast a couple of weeks ago because someone had came out and made the bold prediction that there would be four more interest rate rises before they'd be looking at you know putting the brakes on and so these younger presenters were on air saying there's going to be four more interest rate rises and so they were

taking what they'd read by some journalist somewhere and they were then repeating it as though they were the authority and people were listening to them going you know wow there's going to be four more rises. They're just causing that unnecessary panic. And I said, I pulled them up on air and I said, just hang on for a second. There's not going to be four more interest rate rises, I don't believe. The RBA needs to be very, very, very careful because at the moment, they're playing with people's livelihoods. And so these rises, while on paper they might be needed, they are causing people huge amounts of stress and if they go on to do four more or however many more but more than a couple more they're going to start playing with people's lives people

are going to start because they can't service their loans and their lives are going to implode they're going to start self-harming and so the RBA has got to be super careful they got to at the table when they're making these decisions, they need to take all of those factors into consideration, not just what the inflation numbers say. Yeah, totally agree. Renee, if we jump forward, then taking all that on board, and let's face it, there's a lot of fear and a lot of naysayers that get the headlines in the mainstream media, at least because it attracts our eyeballs and our earbuds. But I'd love for you to sort of, given the breadth of people that you've been talking to. What's your thoughts around what's likely to shape the property market in the year

ahead over and above interest rates that we've already talked about? I think we're going to see a lot of caution this year. I think a lot of people are scared and I think a lot of people are worried about what their futures look like. And I know this does link back to those interest rate rises that we talked about, but I think that, you know, this year people are going to be very cautious. And I think a lot of what our guests tell us and the advice I've been given for myself outside of the show is you just really need to speak to the people in the space who have the answers. I've spoken to mortgage brokers, accountants, financial advisors, real estate agents, all in the space of just the past few months in terms of my investment property and

the house that we bought that we're living in last year so I think there is going to be a lot of caution this year I think what we are in a way sort of fairly insulated in in ways on what goes on here in in Canberra so what a lot of people are experiencing and looking at on a national scale doesn't always affect us here in the same way we obviously have a high percentage of people in Canberra who work in the public service and we have Parliament here and government. So, I think we have some other influences on our property market here, but I think we're going to see a lot of caution this year and it'll be really interesting to see how it plays out, I think. Yeah, it will be. I think, again, sometimes it's overplayed and there's a lot of talk about the

mortgage cliff at the moment, which again, I think has sort of been blown out in a little bit of proportion because people are pretty much aware of what's going on and taking the action to protect themselves. But I'd love for you to share, given what you've heard and seen, where's the opportunities and risks? We've covered the risks probably, but where are the opportunities going to be in property? And let's focus particularly on Canberra, given you know that so well. What's your thoughts there? Yeah, I think something, a developing trend that we've seen over the last couple of years. So there has been a huge explosion of construction of units and apartments in the nation's capital. And so that is down, you know, definitely through what they're calling the

Northbourne Corridor, which is as you drive into town, that is Northbourne Avenue is what takes you down into Civic across Commonwealth Avenue Bridge and then up to Parliament House. So with the construction of light rail, there is huge amounts of development there, but that development is also taking place in the surrounding regions in Belcon and Tuggeranong and certainly Woden as well so we had an explosion of units there's many many people who and while land release and land availability has certainly been a contentious political issue in the last 24 months or so there's plenty of people who are in their established older style homes more traditional style settings where there has been a big lack but it's starting you know builders and designers are

starting to get in on this is townhouses. And so there's been a big lack of that. And a couple of years ago, you couldn't get a townhouse. Number one, they just weren't coming onto the market. And number two, if they were coming onto the market, they were selling at highly inflated prices. So I think there's an appetite and a thirst for that in between, not apartment living, but not also traditional home living, if you like. Those townhouses, you know, for the people who might be wanting to come out of a unit into something bigger but can't afford a house

and for downsizers as well. You know, older people who are downsizing, if that's their age, they come down into, you know, three bedroom townhouse with a beautiful courtyard in a nice setting. That's pretty attractive to a lot of people and they will be able to sell their property

at what will probably be a huge profit margin. So they'll have somewhere nice to live in a townhouse and they'll have their money to either invest to live on or do with whatever they want. Yeah. And speaking of sort of those opportunities locally, something that we've been hearing about on our show and something I've noticed just in my own research

and things that I see on social media particularly is Ham sort of alluded to it. Our show broadcasts to Canberra, obviously, but the surrounding region as well. So we've got lots of surrounding towns, Queanbeyan, Yass, Cooma, Myron Bateman and a number of others where particularly during COVID,

there was this seem to be almost a mass exodus of people going because they're not far from where we are here at all. They still have access to everything they need, but they feel like they're getting that space,

which is what a lot of people obviously wanted during COVID. And I think there's certainly a hangover there that's still lingering and people are still wanting that and seeking that. And I've certainly noticed that a lot of real estate agents who sort of service those regional and rural areas just outside of Canberra, I think, are really capitalising on that.

Just looking at a lot of their social media, they're understandably playing up to that desire that people have, so to speak, by really pushing people to those regional and rural areas. And so I think that there'll be a lot of more opportunities in that space as well moving forward. Totally agree. The exodus of lifestyle that actually started prior to COVID. COVID just threw petrol on the fire effectively. And the ripple effect that that's having on being able to live in a beautiful place, but as long as that technology is there so we can connect in and we can still operate effectively,

which is the case particularly in Canberra and surrounds, is a really good opportunity. And it's going to spread the eggs a little bit from the sort of concentration that used to be around the CBDs and the blue chip stuff now to a much more decentralised approach, which creates a lot of great opportunities for people. But look, I really appreciate you sharing all of that local knowledge. Tell us, guys, what's new and next for you both and your popular Mix 106.3's real estate show? Well, I think we'll kick on doing what we're doing. We love bringing the show to people. And

as we explained before, I've sort of been in the thick of the experience of getting an investment property just in the last couple of years and buying and selling during COVID and all the interest rates and everything that's been happening, I've been right in the thick of it. So I've been bringing things to the show each week that happen as a result of that. And it could be, you know, something as simple as, you know, what do we need to look for at a pre-settlement inspection? Because at ours, we didn't think to flush the toilets and we moved in and realized the toilets weren't working uh so just little things like that that i feel like people who are driving around on a saturday morning

will be able to to relate to in some way or other so i think we'll continue bringing stories like that but cam actually had a really good idea recently to start a four-part series on the on the show where we we pick a topic and we can dig down on it with a different guest um each week over four weeks and one of the ones we're in the middle of at the moment is what challenges are landlords facing in the ACT because obviously there's lots of stories and we've spoken a lot about it on our show about renters and their tenants and the challenges they're facing and the help that's out there for them and what their future could look like but landlords are kind of in the thick of it as well and so we're in the middle of exploring that at the moment and there'll

be some more um interesting ones coming coming along for that series i reckon yeah absolutely and uh each and every year we try and do it we try and you know bring something new to the show uh so we can just keep it sort of refreshed a little bit and that's it renee's exactly right sitting out looking out over the beaches in sydney over the christmas break it's like okay what what can what's something a little bit different that we can do and so i sort of thought of this idea of a four-part series and bushy you will know you come on our show you know once every four or five weeks and we only have three minutes to speak to you and it's not really it's only enough time to scratch the surface really and there's no

time to dive deeply into some really thick and juicy you know content and topics to talk about so we sort of thought okay if we do a four-part series over the course of four weeks bring in four different guests or it might be two different guests who appear twice and we can dig down a little bit on some of the things that deserve that time. And Renee's exactly right. So, of course, we appreciate, we recognise and respect everything that renters are going through at the moment. But our first one that we're in and doing is what about landlords? And landlords are, for the most, they're not money-hungry corporations that have 8,000 investment properties. There's lots of mum and dad investors and people like Renee and I who have

only one property, who are trying to shore up our future, yes, but it's also providing someone somewhere to live. And so in Canberra, there is many, many regulations and there's more and there's land tax and there's lots and lots of things that landlords have to battle. And so it's getting harder and harder. So we thought, why not let's have a look at what landlords are facing at the moment and so you know renee's right we have um 10 other you know proposed topics that we'll sort of navigate through through the year and hopefully that will you know just refresh the show a little bit and make it same but different and yeah i love it it's it's a very similar exercise the reason why we have these deep dive conversations in addition to the sort of sound

bite segments that we run on realty talk is for exactly that reason you can sort of open your idea to an opportunity, but then you get an opportunity to dive deeper in and get into the nitty gritties of a particular issue that has been experienced by everyone in the property industry. So full marks on that score, guys. Guys, I want to now shift into what I affectionately refer to as the ambush question around where push fire lightning round. So put on your blindfolds and your cigarettes and buckle up because I'm going to get both of you to share on this. And Renee, to kick that off, what's your favourite quote and why? um don't count the days make the days count love it that's pretty self-explanatory yeah

what about yours cam uh yeah look i i have set my business up around a couple of these uh and so uh attitude and belief outweigh everything uh and so i definitely apply that to life and to the business and i'm a big fan of a band called midnight oil uh and they have a song called the power and the passion and there is a great line out of it that's actually attributed to a Mexican warlord and it is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees and so I try and shape decision making in and around those two sayings but I've got a thousand others as well I love them I love you know taking amazing words from other people who are much much smarter than me and trying to apply them into some sort of you know tangible and workable outcome that might help me

do better in whatever I'm doing. Yeah, I love it, man. I'm probably showing my age, but I'm a big Midnight Oil fan myself. And I actually saw them at uni when they first started many years ago when they were still doing instrumental stuff. So we're still a big Peter Garrett fan. So there's nothing better to bring a quote together than a song. But also a big bookworm. So I'd love for you to share what's the top book that you'd recommend we read and why? Well, I don't know how insightful I'm going to be here because I'm a bit of a true crime nerd, and so that's kind of where my interests lie with books.

But to be honest, a lot of the books that I've been reading these days are about the Wiggles and are about bananas and pajamas. So I don't know how insightful I'm going to be there, but I could read you a whole Wiggles book with my eyes shut if that's going to help anybody. And she's an expert on skivvies. Exactly. What about you, Ken?

Yes, I mentioned former Navy SEAL David Goggins a short while ago, and it was a few years ago that he released a book called Can't Hurt Me. And that book should be made to be part of the school curriculum as far as I'm concerned. That changed a number of the ways that I do things, a number of the ways that I think. And so the book was amazing, but the audible version that they did was incredible.

And so the guy who helped him write it, they brought Goggins and the guy into the studio. And so they read parts of it and then they would stop and then they would have a conversation. And so they would unpack some of the things that they were talking about in the book. And it's 11 hours. It's very entertaining. But there's so many amazing messages that can be taken out of it. Yeah, I've got a lot of time for the journey that he went on himself. and then to help others by educating them on his experiences.

Incredible. Gold. Guys, let's return to the investment front for a minute. What's both the worst and the best piece of investment advice that you've both received today? I think one that comes to mind for me is a combination of the best and the worst because it has worked out for me, but you'll see what I mean.

So a message that was drummed into me, I guess, from when I was younger was that put all your savings into a savings account in your bank and just let that build. And so, while that did pay off for me because I was able to save money and I'm good at saving and I'm good at budgeting and I'm able to, you know, I'm smart with how I spend my money, you know, I could have perhaps invested that sooner in something and have it build that way and I have done that now so it's paid off but I think that that's something that kind of was a bit of a combination of the two but another one was to and this seems very basic but was to create a financial plan it's something I'm still working on I'm good at budgeting but I'm not great

at the ins and outs of finance and home loans and all that sort of thing it's something I'm very much still still learning about um so creating that financial plan and i guess just getting advice from the experts and a range of sources as well don't just rely on that that one um mortgage broker that your dad's best mate has recommended you to you know make sure you speak to a couple um get get a range of advice i think just to make sure that you're fully informed we love that Well, just on the first point you made there, Renee, I did a story some while ago where someone had done some research that proved that the best investors are dead.

And what they meant by that is that those that invest in something and then don't touch it and don't play with it and don't buy and sell it, which is a habit of people, have got to sort of be interfering too much. If you just buy and invest in the right asset and then let time do its work, then that's going to give you the best results so some some great thoughts there what about yourself ken oh god i've had plenty of bad advice over the time don't worry about that look i i can i'll take you back into when i was working at the radio station up in darwin hot 100 and the mix station up there and i was at a point where i was ready to think about buying some property

and making an investment so i went off to a financial advisor and he sat across the desk from me and he basically chuffed at me when i said i was ready to to do some investing and i you know what what are the avenues and he said mate just go off go away pay off your car which was only you know twelve or thirteen thousand dollars that i had left to pay this is quite some time ago and then come back to me and see me when you've done that and that that ended up to be one of the worst pieces of advice ever because he should have said right let's go let's go dive into some property or let's go dive into some shares or whatever it was. And I walked away from that going, oh, okay, I need to go and pay off my car. And that was another two years. And that was two

years past or gone that I didn't have the opportunity to invest. And so whether it was property or whether it was shares or whatever. So that's just one of the little of many mistakes and bad pieces of advice going into the property at Nielsen Bay that I just got burned. I got exposed to a criminal. And so very bad advice through that as well. A good piece of advice has been lots of that as well, thankfully. I think someone once said to me, listen to everyone, but take notice of no one. And I think the idea behind that, especially we were talking about property is exactly what Renee was alluding to there. Listen to a whole range of people, but then take all the goodness out of all their opinions

and then mould it into your decision. So listen to everyone, take notice, and no one do what you think is going to then be best for you. Really good advice. One of the key litmus tests that I encourage investors, and it doesn't matter what you invest in, whoever you're talking to, get them to reveal and verify what they actually invest in because if they're suggesting

that you do something and they're not walking their own talk, run. Yeah, 100%, yes. Really simple on that, Scorn. It's a really good indicator of how serious they are about what they're suggesting for you. Guys, just to bring the old ambush to a conclusion then, what's a personal happy habit or rewarding ritual or a daily discipline even that you follow that has contributed most to your individual

success today? I think, if you don't mind, I think one thing that I do that I'm probably a bit obsessive over but it does pay off for me is I'm constantly just writing things down in my phone so whether I'm out at a restaurant and I hear the person next to me talk about their horror landlord that they're dealing with I'll get out my phone and I write it down any thought that I have that I'm going to need at some point or reminders I'm just always writing them down because it helps me keep on track I've got two girls to chase after I've got work and a home and all these other commitments and so I think just writing those things down

certainly is a daily ritual um that helps me one that I'm working on that I'll admit I'm terrible at but it's something I keep telling myself to do is um a gratitude journal I know some people will hear that and probably think oh that's a bit you know that's a bit like why would you spend your time doing that but but truly if you just take a minute out of your morning or night just to write one or two things down that you're grateful for, it's building that positive mindset. And I think when you build on that over time, it can really impact your everyday life.

So that's another one. Yeah, 100%. I don't think that's woo-woo at all. It's something I've done for years. In fact, before I even open my eyes in the morning, I do a quiet gratitude session because it just sets the energy for the day. And I think it's a really good practice. What about yourself, Ken?

Yeah. Mental reset at the beginning of every day is absolutely amazing. So there's a couple of things that I do. Admiral William McRaven and people will know about this saying, and he says, if you want to change the world, start by making your bed. And so this is something that I've tried to install into my youngest daughter, who is 16 and a half and going on a bit of a whirlwind journey herself at the moment. And so that is all about completing a task, a menial task at the beginning of the day, and then moving on to the next task and then moving on to the next task. And so you become task driven and you just get stuff done. So I love that saying, if you want to change the world, start by making your bed. What I do though, also, because you can be,

and everyone goes through mental anguish and we get engulfed and we get washed out by negativity. and you've only got to have one small thing happen to you in a day and it can just ruin the rest of your day. So I lean back on and lean into just a couple of very simple sayings that if I find myself consciously going into a negative space, I just use the words, get past it, mate, or get over it. Just get over that. Don't think about that.

Let's go find something positive to think about. And very quickly you can turn a positive into negative as far as mental thinking is concerned, and that's had a huge difference on the way I've conducted things over the last few years. Someone said to me just the other day on that, they said, put that thought, put that negative thought on the log and let the log float down the river.

Or burn it. I throw it on the fire and burn it, actually. That's a lot better. I'm going to use that one. Burning stuff is much more fun, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. No, that's been awesome, guys. Look, I really appreciate you spending some time with us.

I know how busy you guys are in both your working and personal lives. But just before we wrap it up, any summary takeaways that you'd like to share with us? Oh, look, I mean, I was going to finish by saying thank you to you for coming on to our show and sharing your, you know, worldly insights. And, you know, we love speaking to you on the air and it's, you know, it's fun to listen to, but there's always a meaning or there's always a takeaway and then you know being part of that we just love these sorts of

opportunities as well and so to do this you know we've had banter and conversations backwards and forwards to make the time happen I mean I think we've been trying to get this podcast in place for about six months yeah we finally made it happen and here we are chatting so I love the process and I've loved sitting down and speaking to you and sharing you know I'll say definitely our thoughts and for me, not so much wisdom, but I've loved the process and thank you for your input onto our show as well. Well, it's something I, as I've said a couple of times, I really enjoy and in wrapping it up, guys, I really want to thank you again for taking the time today. And I really do encourage everyone who's listening in to tune in every Saturday

morning to your Canberra 106.3's real estate show, where you're going to get to enjoy Camel Energy's injection of energy to get your weekend off to a really good start, but also to get some and hear some insights from property gurus right across the country, guys. So, let's keep the conversation going. The next step is for me to get you on the Realty Talk to share some segments, particularly around what's happening in Canberra. So, I really appreciate it and looking forward to keeping the ongoing relationship and the opportunity to share great information with some great people. Love to do that. Okay. So, it's mix106.com.au You can live stream us and we also have a podcast that's available

on that website as well. Just go to Shows. We'll be there. There's a picture of us. Just click on that and it's all there for you, isn't it, right? Yeah, and you can listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts. iHeart Radio. Yep, so just listen to the show.

Thanks. Awesome, guys. Let's keep the conversation going and we'll talk again soon. Thanks, mate. Thank you. See you. Thank you. Thanks for getting invested.

now here's three easy ways you can take action to start making it happen to ensure you build momentum and start living by design not default so that you're following your freedom formula firstly subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already and keep the weekly inspiration coming secondly get a copy of my book get invested for free and find out what it takes for you to invest in living more and working less. Just visit bushymartin.com.au forward slash books or knowhowproperty.com.au or click on the links in the show notes. And thirdly, join me and the Get Invested community. Each month I send a free and exclusive email full of practical self-help and wealth wisdom that our current Freedom Fighter subscribers can't wait to get. Just

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