Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: David Sharp on how to control construction

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

Whether it is a new build, renovation or extension, construction is often a nightmare, but David Sharp wants to give homeowners and investors the power back.  Right now, the construction process works against property owners where inefficiencies are rewarded. It's not about screwing builders, who are often trying to do the right thing within a broken system.  As a home renovation and extension advocate, David steps in to make the process fair and efficient while reducing vulnerability.  Through his company Haven Advocates, David works with owners on scoping, defining, finding, selecting, negotiating and navigating delivery, with all of the right builders and professionals to save time, money and stress. David has 30 years of experience in the home improvement and construction sector, and he’s seen the industry from the inside, with all of it’s fundamental flaws. In this episode, he reveals key lessons learned and what it takes to see a construction project successfully come to life.  Connect with David: havenadvocates.com.au NEW - Join the Property Hub community on Substack! Sign up to get Australian property news, opinion and episodes in your inbox: https://propertyhubau.substack.com/  Three easy ways to Get Invested right now: 1. Subscribe to this podcast now, if you haven’t already, and get the inspiration delivered to your podcast feed each week 2. Get a copy of my book, Get Invested, for FREE, and find out what it takes for you to invest in living more, working less. Go to: https://knowhowproperty.com.au/get-invested-free-ebook  3. Join the Get Invested community. Each month Bushy sends a free and exclusive monthly email full of practical ‘Self, Health and Wealth’ wisdom that our current Freedom Fighter subscribers can’t wait to get each month. Just visit bushymartin.com.au, scroll to the bottom of the page and sign up. About Get Invested, a Property Hub show Get Invested is the leading weekly podcast for Australians who want to learn how to unlock their full ‘self, health and wealth’ potential. Hosted by Bushy Martin, an award winning property investor, founder, author and media commentator who is recognised as one of Australia’s most trusted experts in property, investment and lifestyle, Get Invested reveals the secrets of the high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and the world around them. Get Invested is part of the Property Hub podcast channel, your home for property investment insights, inspiration and stories from Australia’s top property experts, investors, leaders and analysts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Google Podcasts to get every Get Invested episode each week for free, and also get full access to RealtyTalk, Australia’s top online property show for red hot property investing news and insights direct from property industry leaders and influencers. Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, show producer Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media.  For business and partnership enquiries, send an email to: [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

So right at the very start from that very first phone call, you've made a fundamental error. You've handed over all control. We're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars here. We're not talking little tins and tax. It's one of the biggest investments you'll ever make, yet we hand over full control over to other people. So what I've tried to do with Haven is to set up a process where the control stays on our side of the table for as long as humanly possible. Welcome to Get Invested on the Property Hub podcast channel, the leading weekly show to help you unlock your full self-health and wealth potential. I'm your host Bushy Martin and each week I go deep with the best investors, experts, leaders and founders to find out what it takes to

break free from the grind, discover freedom and live by design. Subscribe now and join me and get invested in the life you really want. Let's get started. Hi Freedom Fighters, have you ever done a home renovation or extension? How did it go? Did everything go to plan? Or perhaps you're considering doing a renovation or extension to your home because you think it's a lot cheaper and a lot easier to get that done and to actually turn an old pig's ear into a silk purse than to go through the pain, heartache and financial stress of turning your world upside down by selling your current property and buying another one with all of the disruption of packing, moving and re-establishing your life into a different place.

I mean, how hard can an extension or renovation be? Surely it's not that difficult. Isn't it just a matter of getting some plans done and then getting your builder to make it happen for you? And surely it's not going to cost too much or take too much time. Famous last words, if only it were that simple. Chances are that you've done a home renovation or extension or you're contemplating doing it at some stage in the future.

If you've already done it, I want you to take a second to think back to how you felt before, during and after the whole experience. Did you start off all excited and full of ideas and enthusiasm about how the renovation or extension was going to transform your world and convert your old, worn out, out of date, tight and inconvenient home into this light, bright haven with all of the mod cons, where you were just going to love spending all of your time and feeling like you're on holidays 24-7. But did your dreams match the reality? Well, probably not. Let me guess. It probably went something a bit like this. You got all your ideas together and you reached out to an architect or a building designer to ensure that what you wanted to do

is actually going to be approved. And they then signed you up to an end-to-end agreement that was going to cost you thousands when you actually thought it was only going to cost you a couple 100. You then gave them your brief and budget, and they worked up your design, which you finally agreed on weeks or sometimes months down the track. Then your designer engages engineers to design and certify the structure, and you're another few thousand dollars down the hole. Once this is all done, you get a number of builders to quote on the final drawings, only to find a month or so later that there are tens of thousands of dollars over your original budget so you go back to your designer who then charges you more to revise and downgrade the

design with many unwanted compromises and months later again you're still not able to bring it all within your budget meanwhile months have passed and big dollars have been spent without actual work even being done so much for a quick and cost-effective extension and when you finally go back and get more builder's quotes there's some that won't even bother to give you a price And of those that do, you find it impossible to compare the massive differences in the cost of one with the other, as they've all made big different allowances in relation to their quotes, and they've got different numbers for provisional sums and prime cost allowances, and for all of our finishing items, which is actually, if you hear PC sums or provisional sums mentioned, this is actually construction code for allowing very little for not much that's bound to cost you a lot more. And the quotes and contracts aren't fixed. So every time there's a change or time extension or delay, you end up paying for it with extra money you probably don't even have.

And you learn too late that once you've signed a builder up and executed a building contract, the progress payments are often loaded in the early stages of the build, which means they've got very little financial incentive to actually finish the job, and you've got very limited financial negotiation power to get them to do it. So, completion can often end up dragging on forever.

In the meantime, every time you make a selection, the builder's hand reaches out for more money and the timeframe just keeps blowing out. Months and sometimes a year or more later, your humble home extension is finally complete, having cost you infinitely more than you expected and the whole experience has been a long, stressful, rollercoasting hell ride.

And if there's defects or issues incurred once you start living in it, you've got our snowball's hope in hell of getting anyone to come back and fix them. If this is all sounding a bit like the old Tom Hanks movie, The Money Pit, then you're right on the money. What starts as your dream ends up becoming a worse nightmare. Unfortunately, the current construction industry and the building process is extremely one-sided and very inefficient. And unfortunately, these inefficiencies are actually rewarded, meaning that more of your money ends up going to others and less into your

important extension. It also means that as owners, you're often extremely vulnerable with little protection, particularly if you have limited knowledge of what you're actually signing up to. Now, while this is unfortunately all a very common experience, it doesn't have to be. As an architect and project manager in my past life, I'm actually a very big fan of the benefits of building and I know firsthand that you are able to manage and control the time, quality and cost of building renovations and extensions and or new builds and actually achieve great results. It's all about having someone on your side who intimately understands the ins and outs and can manage the paperwork and the entire process from end to end to your benefit, not to everyone else's.

And this is where today's very special guest David Sharp and his Haven Advocates team comes to your rescue. As the name suggests, David's team become your advocate. They work for you to assist you in scoping, defining, finding, selecting, negotiating and navigating delivery with all of the right builders and professionals to save you time, money, risk and of course stress. This unique service stems from David's three decades of experience in the home improvement and construction sector and he's seen the industry from the inside with all of its fundamental flaws that makes building in Australia expensive, time-consuming and generally unfair. As your building advocate, David and his team's role is to make the renovation and extension

building process fair and efficient and to reduce your vulnerability and risk. He's there to be your voice as the owner and to ensure that your interests and your wallet are put first. So I'm really looking forward to breaking this down and hearing how David and the Haven Advocates team can save you time and money and headache for your next building extension or renovation. So welcome and let's get invested, David. G'day, Bushy. Thanks for your time, mate. Really appreciate having me on.

Well, as you can see from the intro, I'm very interested in what you're bringing to the table because it's a real need to really open people's eyes to an opportunity really to have a pleasurable experience and actually to get what they want when they're looking to do their next renovation extension. But mate, before we sort of dive into the details of all that, I'd sort of love for you to give us a bit of a rundown on what you do differently and probably more importantly, mate why you do what you do yeah good question um look i guess probably the number one fundamental difference is empathy um i've seen it from the inside as you said in your perfect intro um i've seen it for years and years and years i've seen the industry not work right unfortunately in

our industry there's numbers on a page um my background has sort of brought me and i suppose an understanding of the value of money and how darn hard we all have to work to achieve it and yeah as I say unfortunately that when they're just numbers on a page I think there's a lack of understanding in our industry of how hard that person has worked for an extra twenty thousand here thirty thousand there fifty thousand there well that can actually be another two three years that that person needs to stay in the workforce it can be holidays missed out it can be a change in education for their kids they're real numbers and they need to be looked after but unfortunately in our industry, $10,000, $30,000, it's almost irrelevant. It's just there are literally budgets

given to say, okay, let's get this extra out of it. And it's simply not fair. So that's probably the number one thing that I've sort of brought to the table is an empathy and an understanding of the reality of the money and a real sort of customer focus to say, hang on, this can be different. So that's probably the number one core element that I'm trying to change. And that's probably what I do bring to the table is that, yeah, that strong sense of empathy and an understanding of the of how hard we each work for that money yeah absolutely love it mate well i'd love for you to sort of take us through your journey because as as i mentioned intro you've sort of seen it from both sides so i'd love for you to sort of break down for us you know we've

invested your time energy money over the years and why and how this has actually led you to what you're doing now yeah so look it all started actually very young um i was still at school um my my just to work part-time for a floor polishing company so just in the you know after school i'd go and polish floors um and then my my wonderful brother-in-law who's been in my life and still in my life um my my darling sister's husband uh was was good enough and brave enough i suppose you could say to lend me money so i went to him cap in hand and he loaned me a huge sum of money at the time of 25 000 for me to go out and get my own machinery he really took a leap of faith in me. He could see who I was as a young man and did it. So while I was still at school, I had

a couple of men working for me. I would finish school and go and do quotes and go and finish off floors and go and fill holes and punch nails down. And so that really sort of got me going on my journey. It gave me confidence. Now, did I get everything right? Absolutely not. Did I make a truckload of money out of that business? Most definitely not. Did I pay my brother-in-law back? yes I did you know and we're still best mates to this day um but yeah so that was really the beginning of my journey that really got me not only the entrepreneurial spirit I guess but it also showed me that you know one how hard you have to work for your money but also it got me in that industry and started working so from there I started to branch out into others I even

worked in you know the plantation shutter industry for a little while and then really sort of found my focus and found my feet within the building industry you know really focusing I was never the on-site builder but what I was is I understood the business of building so running businesses and I grew up grew fairly quickly within the industry I had general manager positions relatively young probably again a little bit too young learnt a lot of lessons burnt some fingers but yeah it really developed a broad spectrum of knowledge within the industry but importantly about how the how the industry runs it showed me really easy the flaws it really did I could see it very very very soon the flaws within it and unfortunately the the angle that everything takes and it is

it's all about making sure that one side of the table is looked after at the expense of the other so I could see it for years um you know I often felt myself as a you become a bit of a professional bad guy in these roles um you really do your job is to I don't know for want of a better expression not take advantage, but, you know, make the most of your situation at the expense of another. So, yeah, so that was really my growth phase is just understanding how the business went. It started very young and sort of grew myself into some very senior management positions within some very large building companies. So seeing it on a large scale as well as a minute scale. Yeah, I just want to drill into a couple of things there. You said that you felt you're

probably too young for some of the big roles you had but why do you say that and then as a flow-on from that you said you you started to see the flaws and that there was the angle there that was always about putting your fingers into the into the payers purse can you sort of expand on both sides a bit for us yeah i suppose that i suppose from the from the too young perspective was you know probably not having that empathy not having that own personal experience of life You know, I think as we all grow, as people, we're the sum of all of our experiences. So I probably didn't have the understanding. I was probably a little bit brash.

You know, I was a little possibly overconfident, trying to accelerate my life a little bit quickly. So, yeah, some mistakes were made. And also, I suppose, yeah, a lack of experience, just not having a true understanding of what my role was and the importance of my role within those where I was. so yeah it did take a little bit of time um there was certainly as i say we all make mistakes and there were some you know some mistakes made i look back now and think why did i do it like that i probably should have done it in a slightly different way i should have slowed down rather than being so you know driven and saying i want to get to the top as quickly as i possibly can i probably should have sat back and garnered a bit more experience and knowledge life experience first

um so yeah there was probably mistakes made there and i i felt you know in terms of that i felt like I was part of the machine I was actually driving that that conversation where well what how can we maximize that I think as you gain life experience you realize well hang on they got there's got to be a more balanced way to do this a more nuanced approach I think when you're young you're brash you haven't gone through those experiences so they sort of lend themselves to both so that's probably you know the best way I could say it is that yeah gaining that life experience first would have probably been a little bit better and made me better at my role um certainly as the years went by and i gained that life experience particularly having children um i think you

realize you you interact with your staff so much better the empathy really does come to the fore and you start to actually realize well hang on these are people's livelihoods we're dealing with you guys we can still make a dollar but we can be better corporate citizens while we're doing it and you know there really is that that you know if i had to if you said to me well if you said dave what's the number one flaw in your industry it's that people they don't have that understanding they just don't have that understanding of that this is people's livelihoods this is the extra years in the workforce that they don't necessarily have to have let's make the process sufficient and fair and then it works but as i say it takes life experience to actually work that out

yeah spot on so i'd love to to sort of understand the bridge to you know being a general manager or or in similar roles on the construction side of the game to then flipping the wheel to now becoming the owner's advocate through Hayden. Because talk to us through how that came about. Yeah, well, I suppose, as I said, you become a bit of a professional bad guy. I went through, I'll be completely up front with you

and all your listeners, I went through a marriage breakup and I think that just sort of changes your focus a little bit. I was doing the, you know, the 70 hours a week, working my absolute butt off for what, you know, and you actually ask yourself that. So I just made that decision as part of the life change that I wanted to make in terms of my own personal growth and development, that I wanted to change it. I wanted to actually, I could see that need and I thought, you know what, this is my opportunity to take the, you know, what I had, the experience that I had to say, okay, I'm actually going to

flip the script here. I'm going to be a changer rather than being in that machine and actually say, hang on, there is a way we could do it. Believe me, I was getting a lot of doubt from the industry this will never work why are you doing this you're leaving a high paid job why are you doing this you're crazy you're crazy but i thought you know what this is the time in my life where i'm actually going to try and make a change to our industry to make it work for everybody i'm you know it's it's it's about making the entire industry function better from top to bottom um so yes it's at the benefit of the homeowners but it also works better for builders architects and designers as well it's not just about the homeowner yes that's my core focus and that's

who I'm employed by, is the homeowner. But my job is to make the entire process more efficient. And as I say, it was my opportunity to sort of step out of that grind, being in the machine to say, okay, there has to be a better way. There really has to be a better way. And, you know, I took it upon myself to say, look, this is how I'm going to do it. I could see clear as the nose of my face what was wrong

and where it needed to go. I just needed to do it. So that was where that sort of big leap of faith went. And, you know, I certainly suffered financially for a period of time, but, you know, as they say, everything that, you know, is worth doing is worth sacrificing for. So I took that sacrifice on board and I really put my head down and thought, no, I'm going to make this work. And again, like with every, you know, get it right the first time, there's tweaks, there's changes, there's ways you can, you go about it. But certainly over the years that Haven's been running, it's now been running since 2018, I've been able to sort of really make that process really refined to the point where, you know, people within the industry are now coming back to me saying, thank goodness you did this, Dave. This is actually really needed.

So, you know, all things considered, it was well worth that sacrifice and that leap just to, as I say, step myself out of that in that grind 70 hours a week being the bad guy to now being the, you know, and it's also about me also being around for my two young daughters. i'm a i'm a single dad i'm i'm full-time with my children i have them 100 of the time due to various reasons um but to bet give me give myself from a personal perspective give myself that flexibility so i can work from a home rather than being out of the out of the home you know 70 hours a week i'm now at home a lot of the time yeah i've got to tell them to go downstairs and be quiet and things like that but you know i'm at least here nothing gives me more joy than going and picking them up from school being able to be you know there when they've got their music lessons and things like that and being able to be there for the performances and the sports events and things

like that so from a personal perspective it was a great choice um and an industry perspective i think it's definitely you know being proven to be the right thing to do yeah i love it so is the divorce being the sort of tipping point that's and and your most challenging event in your life that's brought about those changes or are there other things there that are worth talking about as well yeah look i i certainly wanted to do it prior to that i knew i knew you know that it needed to happen I knew I wanted to do it that was certainly the catalyst to say now's the time to do it certainly so yes it was a rather than being the reason I suppose it was as much of an opportunity it returned my you know as with many divorces you have to sell property

so it turned it into a cash settlement I wanted to move just back to I was in Melbourne at the time wanted to move back to Sydney for the benefit of my children and be closer to other family and the like so um that made sense I didn't have then the money to say okay I can jump straight back into the property market in Sydney as obviously assets got get diluted um so that was you know so yes it wasn't the it wasn't the reason but it was the catalyst in terms of the timing um I suppose you know my mum is a is a big driver of who I am as a person um she's a migrant single mother um worked her absolute butt off did the two jobs did everything to provide for me and my sister um so if anything that's probably the life experience that has given me that empathy that we

talk about that drive that that want for better that understanding of the value of money seeing how hard mum had to work you know she was a secretary for the local council and then she would go work you know waitressing at night and she would you know she was a kitchen hand for period of times just to put enough money on the table for me and my sister she also you know one of the life lessons she gave to me early on when you know young teenagers you're going off the rails and what part of why I started my business so early is she said if you know you're never going to be on the dole son you're never going to do it I didn't do it I never put my hand out I always worked my tail off and you're always going to do the same so you know the timing was driven

by the divorce but I suppose the life lessons that I got from my mum were probably the main reason why I am where I am now in terms of how I am as a man but also who I am in terms of my business life and the ability to sort of empathize with the people that i work with that customer focus because i do truly understand the value of money and how darn hard we all have to work for it yeah i love it mate i'd love for you to sort of give us a a few thoughts on you know in addition to investing in your career which you're obviously very ambitious and wanting to climb the tree which you know many young blokes do exactly the same uh yeah outside of the the work environment Were you investing in anything else?

And, you know, I'm talking here property shares, equities, you name it. I'd love for you to sort of talk to us about, you know, what you invested in, when and why, and what's been your investment strategy. And then we'll flip into talking about what the future looks like and where to from here. But just from your investment journey so far,

what does that look like? Yeah, so, look, early on it was all about getting that primary home somewhere for my now ex-wife and I to live that was that was it so it was scrimp and save and save and save I wasn't an active investor as early on I really wasn't it was certainly later on in life that look I've developed a real passion for precious metals that's always been a you know understanding that and you know some of the books that I've read have really led me to that and sort of had that understanding between the difference between money and currency that's always been a big part of my sort of thinking um it's i believe it's a hard asset it was you know particularly

after divorce it was a hard asset i could get into without needing the you know the million dollars to buy you know a one-bedroom unit in sydney um so that was a lot of it i've also i have invested um in equities um that was a big passion i even had a period of time when i was first starting the business one of the ways that i would sort of keep my mind active and keep things going i would set the alarm and get up in the middle of the night and invest on the nasdaq and do a bit of a bit of trading and things like that so i developed a real passion for it it was a you know i absolutely loved and still do to this day um you know i can at any one time i've got a chart open on one screen so i do i've got a real passion about it i made some good choices

and bad choices as we all have you know you certainly don't get them all right in that aspect but um so yeah that's always been a big part of it but yeah my my investment has been So I invest quite heavily in miners. So I like mining stocks. But, you know, everything. So, you know, look, I made the mistake of selling afterpay shares at $8 and they went to $120 because I was worried about the Royal Commission and things like that. So, but, yeah, so there's been many branches. But, yes, definitely equities, precious metals.

That's certainly been my main focus in terms of my investment strategy. With a goal, though, I'll be honest with you, to getting back into that property market so I can create that stability, that home environment for my daughters. You know, that's really the end goal, that everything else is a means to get to that again. So, certainly. Yeah, I love the way. Very similarly, mate, you know, I shared with you in the green room, you know, I had a car crash of a divorce when I was 33. And like you, I just didn't have anything left. it was ground zero for me at that stage and i actually day traded the uh the um did cfds at

that stage to actually get enough deposit to get into property because i just didn't have the wherewithal to do anything else at that point in time so it makes absolutely perfect sense i'd like to sort of jump into the future a bit a bit now and get you to paint us a picture of what your ideal life does look like and and what's your investment strategy moving forward in terms of what you'll invest in, why, to achieve whatever that life vision is and the ideal lifestyle that you've got in mind. Yeah, absolutely. Look, there's very clear goals in terms of what I need,

in terms of, you know, deposits. I'm getting there, working my way forward. Again, keeping that sort of share portfolio open and just chipping away slowly. Obviously, you know, the core element of my business is also, you know, obviously we all do it for a reason, you know, to try and build that equity back so I can, as I say, get back into that property market i want i want my two young daughters to have that stable home

i really do i just i don't want to be moving around i don't want that vulnerability so that's that really is the the core goal um then from there moving forward would be to you know then to hopefully be able to use that equity to go into property investment further i do i'm a strong believer in property investment i really am um everything else i believe is a for me i how i see it personally as a means to get into that um i'm i very much am a believer in hard assets um i think especially in areas like sydney melbourne um right across the country i just think it's a it's tangible it's stable you know if i can then get to a point where i'm growing to a point where i can you know say to my daughters well okay i've given you guys that leg up um so

they don't have to scrimp and save so they're not paying in in the rental wheel you know if i can do whatever i can to to make their journey that little bit easier then that's absolutely the goal so yeah so it's really just about getting that equity so i can get to a point where i'm comfortable with the mortgage that i would be presented with to live in the area that i want to to keep my girls at the school that they are now um have enough for their education as well which i hugely value um making sure that i can do that so that's really the goal at the moment And it's built up that cash sum, you know, in many different ways to get to that point where I can then, you know, take on that mortgage and then, you know, whittle that down to a point where there's enough equity to then span out into further property investment. That's how I see the future laying out.

Yeah, I love it. I love it. So if you were to sort of define your version of sustainable success, what's it look like for you? Look, it's largely about freedom. It really is about that freedom to make sure I've got that time. and I'll keep harping back to my daughters, but that's why we all do it, you know, so I can maintain that time. That's what I say is sustainable success. So I'm doing something that I love and I genuinely love what I do. I really do. I wake up every day knowing that I'm achieving

for my clients. I put my head on the pillow every night knowing that they are better off with me in their lives than without. So that's definitely what I say is sustainable success, maintaining a business that I truly enjoy, that I'm very passionate about, but also having that flexibility and time with my girls so i'm not an absent father that you know so many of us are forced to be none of us do it but do that by choice we do it because we have to that no one no father or mother walks away and leaves you know is away for that 70 hours a day by choice we do it because we have to so that's what i say sustainable success where i can create a stable environment for my two daughters but also be there whenever they need me whenever they're putting their hand

up saying dad can you help i'm actually able to do it so that's definitely what i define as sustainable success for sure. Yeah, well, it's sort of reflecting on that. If you were starting out again, David, what would you invest in differently, if anything? Look, again, I would, I suppose not, I wouldn't do, to be honest with you, I wouldn't do a lot different. I would certainly invest in business and time. I think you can, you know, if you can be at a point where you're not just leasing your hours, not just leasing your time for money in return, I think that's always been something that I learned very, very early in the piece. You know, as I say, I was at school getting an education and I had other people working from, I was leasing their

time. And that was when the sort of light bulb moment happened. Hang on, I can actually do this without having to just purely lease my time. You know, that's certainly, you know, so invest certainly in education and into business, most definitely, you know, making yourself that better person. In terms of, you know, an investment strategy, as I say, I do, as I said, I'm a strong believer in property um so find that means to get into that property market so i probably if i was so i probably would have jumped into the property market a little bit sooner we can always look back and think wow how cheap was it then oh my goodness but you know so i would certainly try to and that's certainly the education i'm trying to give my girls is let's do what we can to try and get

you into that onto that ladder as soon as possible because as much as we see property going like this and you can hear all the doom and gloom stories, this overvalued market, whatever it is, we all know the direction it heads, you know, and it's just that stability. It's a core place. It's roots in the ground. So that's certainly what I would do differently.

I'd probably try and get in a bit sooner. That would be my goal. I probably did leave it a bit too long, so, yeah. Yeah, it's never too late to start but always too late to wait, mate. I always say that. Good point. I like that. yeah if you look back on what you've invested in over the years i'm not talking about you know

equity shares property i'm just talking about generally yeah what's been your best and worst investment and what have you learned from each of those look i did i did i did do very well in terms of my my property when i bought you know bought the home did the thing hang on to 10 years double it that that certainly works so that's definitely it um definitely my best my best investment is into myself um and i think if there's one thing that i could you know would would pass on to anybody is invest in yourself first and foremost you know so you can then grow that sustainable that is long term you know you can you know you know there's there's bad equities that i bought there's good equities that i bought there's some that you know buy a share for four

cents it turns into four dollars you think you're the greatest thing on earth you think you're a master um but still the greatest investment is in your time um in your own education now that doesn't that's not necessarily i didn't go to university i didn't i worked and worked and worked i worked my way up due to my experience um that's how i did it and by my drive um that was that was what got me through so i think certainly investing in yourself um is the absolute number one strategy i think you know everything else will take care of itself you know if you invest in yourself that creates that freedom that time to then keep the eyes up and actually look around and see what's what's there if you're if you're just in focusing on other things and you're focusing on a particular

arbitrary number to say i've got to get to this you'll actually lose focus of what's important you know yeah extremely well said mate but uh i want to sort of uh segue now into uh the the topic that's closest to your heart and the thing that's that's really starting to shake up and and wake up uh people to how uh the construction side of the game should be done for everyone's benefit and that's to talk about haven advocates so i want to sort of set the scene for that though by getting you to sort of unpack what common mistakes and traps you see homeowners making when it comes to renovating or extending their homes yeah look i wouldn't i don't even know if i put it as mistakes there's there's little option um there really is there's only a there's only

very sort of limited pathways that can go i think you probably see the sign in behind me it's where do you start now that's the biggest mistake people actually make the mistake when they start they don't know where to go and i ask that question of you know where do you go what do you do who do you actually start with you know you got the choice do you go to a builder at the start so our industry is full of full service builders and they have a place they're great you know you go there they get their architect to draw up some plans they get their engineer their people their people they're paying a salesman a rate to manage your process get you approved but it's all looked after them you've handed over control you'll often find on page seven of the terms and conditions you

actually don't even own those plans so right at the very start from that very first phone call you've made a fundamental error you've handed over all control we're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars here we're not talking little tins and tax it's one of the biggest investments you'll ever make yet we hand over full control over to other people the other the other mistake that people make is they do the they do the right thing they go talk to an architect architects have very little they're great they're fantastic what they do they have very little understanding of cost as i'm sure you know as well as anybody you can say what you like about architects man i used to be one i'm not attached to that anymore so go for a break so there are the numbers on a

page or lines on a page and that's really all it is again they often have very little understanding of actually what things actually cost to build what's actually important and you know i've seen it a thousand times where once you've seen a million dollar design when you've only got six hundred thousand dollars you all of a sudden say six hundred thousand dollars aren't it's awful you don't like it you don't want it you don't want anything to do with it you've seen the light you've seen it now so you know that's that's probably the mistake is you you're actually often committing particularly with the first option when you go to the the full service builder you're committing to who you're going to buy off before you know how much it's going to cost now

that's a very vulnerable position you know i think i said to you earlier you wouldn't buy a fridge like that you know you wouldn't go to harvey norman say all right this is the fridge i want and then they say okay take it home for six months use it you can't bring it back but then we'll ring you in six months and tell you how much it's going to cost they can tell you whatever it is you know and we're talking a fridge we wouldn't do it that way but yet for some reason with building we're actually expected to do that we jump in we commit we commit we commit then way down the pipe 30 40 50 000 into the process we then find out what it's going to cost it's all too late then those plans are unique they can't just be shifted so what i've tried to do with

haven is to set up a process where the control stays on our side of the table for as long as humanly possible we drive that process so we will engage an architect that ensure that and i say we when i'm saying we i'm talking me and my customers and the homeowners and that's how i approach it it's we we're a team okay we're on one side of the table and everybody else is on the other side of the table so my role is to work with that homeowner we engage an architect that we're engaging no margins any bills will be sent so the architect's bill is in the homeowner's name the engineer's bill is in the homeowner's name so we start that process slowly so we start with initial conceptual designs um we'll start that process then as early in the piece as possible i'll put a cost i'll

engage a qs and we'll actually cost those plans really really early at concept stage those plans are cheap and easy to manipulate you've only spent maybe three or four thousand dollars getting to that point, right? You go, you know what, Dave, I really like them, but let's see how much it really, really costs. Then we sit down, we go, okay, we're a bit over budget. They're easy to manipulate at that point. They're conceptual. We haven't gone to the technical side of things yet. Conceptual designs show you as the homeowner more than a technical drawing. The technical drawing just has a lot of extra lines that educate everybody else, not you, right? So they're all scaled. You can see it's enough for me to put a price to. If we look at it and say, you know what,

i'm comfortable we're comfortable with what we genuinely think that's going to cost then and only then do we go to council or go to the certifier and start actually spending true money but importantly as well as you start spending this money so the engineer might only cost three thousand dollars but you're seeing a bill via your builder that's six thousand you don't know that the engineer only costs three under my process we're controlling that so the bills come to the homeowner direct to the homeowner i manage the process but they're in the owner's name so they can see full transparency it's all laid out in front of them just reducing that vulnerability my role process as well i want to get everything watertight before we go and engage with a builder

take out the i'm sorry i didn't think that was included i'm talking a 30 page specification i'm talking every i dot every everything costed we define so there will be some provisional sums within every building contract because their design choices that the owner will still want to you haven't settled on your kitchen exactly yet or you haven't settled on all those final little elements so we'll put a provisional sum into it but they're all apples for apples so when you're going to market each quote is really easy to compare yeah we know okay every builder is allowing the same amount for those very few there's not many but for the very few bits that there are but everything so when they come back so i didn't think the niche in that third bathroom

the little wall recessed i didn't think it was includable hang on it's there it's on page 13 it's in the specification that specification is referenced in the building contract so we've taken out that ambiguity we've taken out the oh sorry i didn't think it was included now you know that helps the builder as well it takes the builders don't want those tough conversations they don't want to have to go to a homeowner and say sorry i didn't think it was included some builders have included it some builders haven't again how do you compare so we try to make the playing field equal but importantly the most the number one fundamental thing is we try to keep control on our side of the table for as long as possible then we get the builder to build that's his job

just get him to build we'll manage it we'll pro we'll have that process even when we're on site with the builders though variations we all hate that word oh variations you as a homeowner you get called oh i'm sorry there's this bearer that's gone and it's going to cost 14 000 but how do you how are you expected to know there's no layer of accountability there as well there's again that's vulnerability so part of my process is they call me right they call someone who's been in the industry for a long time that has all the costings and i say well hang on mate this is a you know it's it's a thousand bucks worth of timber and it's half a day's labor for a chippy how on earth have you come up with that number that call happens once it doesn't happen twice

right they don't they don't try that again right so it's again it's just reducing that vulnerability i want my clients to be sitting at home or at work earning the money to pay for it not have to second guess every call that they get i don't want them to have to get the calls i'm answering those those questions again making the process more efficient for not only the homeowner but for the builder he's got that central point of contact the engineer has a central point of contact the architect they say dave can you coordinate this for us no problems that's my job that's what i'll do so it's just about creating the efficiencies making the process fair and reducing that vulnerability that's the number one thing for sure yeah if i was sort of listening

to what you're talking about there the two words that stick in my head are certainty so there's no grayness for anyone in the process and and the control in the right place because uh you know as you've well said as soon as you're effectively handing the keys over to the builder and the builder's driving everything else you're a pimple on the pumpkin when it comes to having any say pretty much on what's going on if you know it's it's the old story if it's not written down then it didn't happen pretty much to some degree and you've got nothing to refer back to then it's he said she said and and we know who wins in that situation that's right and relationships break down you know and that's part of it as well so i become a bit of a relationship manager between that

buffer between the homeowner i say to my owners all the time that i want you to get to the end and you and your builder still actually get along so someone's got to go in there and puff their chest out and be the bad cop that's my role i'll do that i'll go in there and have those tough conversations with the builder you don't worry about it i don't expect you to go up there and be baffled with bulldust i can actually go there and step forward and say from a position of authority you know with the one of better expression um i can actually go there and say okay no this is how it needs to be and this is why and then you have the conversations but look to be to be fair i've never had a builder not come back and ask me for more work they want my work as

well they actually go you know what dave you actually you make the yeah i probably didn't make as much money i probably was you know a little bit more accountable but they enjoy the process they they appreciate the certainty the lack of ambiguity as well the lack of those tough conversations I'm making the process more efficient for them as well so they come back and go Dave have you got any more work and I say yeah yeah you're going to have to really make sure you look after my clients on price on service on everything that you do and then we can actually start moving forward on the next job but again it's that layer of accountability as a homeowner you're probably only ever going to do it once yeah and a builder knows that they don't need to impress you they

can get towards the end of the job and it can be all about margin and making sure their income's coming but with me there they're trying to impress me they're going i probably won't do that because i actually want another job i want to get another bit of work out of him so and just to just to disclose i take no commissions off any builders any architects any engineers i'm employed by the homeowner if a builder comes to me and says dave i'll give you 10 grand okay great you can knock 12 grand off the bill because you're going to pay me 10 grand you're going to put a margin on it as well so 12 grand off the bill thank you very much that's great that's a win so you know again it's about transparency but it's all yeah you know it just makes that process more efficient as you say

removes that removes that control puts the control back on the right side of the table yeah and that certainty is there for both sides to say that that's that's the key sort of removing grainers from the whole equation it sort of sounds a little bit like about trying to put this in a you know a format that people could get their heads around it almost sounds like you're the orchestra leader you help the the owner write the symphony and then you introduce the right instrument at the right time and then then not only coordinate their input but control their input and make sure that what they're doing is actually in the best interest of the of the owner exactly right yeah no it sounds perfect you've given us a really good picture on what haven

advocates do do is there anything that you don't do uh in the in the scope of this whole exercise that owners need to be aware of look from from the from the owners look as i say i'm not the builder so i'm not the guy that's going to be sitting there pointing at their carpenter to say go and do this i we we ensure that we get the right builders in place to do that day-to-day construction management um but from the homeowner's perspective i i i really do take that i really do drive the bus i genuinely do i don't i they could they genuinely can sit back and just know their interests are being looked after and that dollars are trying to be saved at every point in time that we can um those efficiencies are created so from the homeowner's perspective i'm i'm an arm of them

so i do everything that they require from me um to do that so even down to if the unthinkable happens and we need legal representation i can manage that side of things i can coordinate with council certifies everybody throughout the process so aside from doing the actual building um from the homeowner's perspective i take care of i genuinely do take care of everything they've just got to go to work to pay the bills that's what they've got to do they're going to pay for it that's the one thing i can't do that that's the you know that's again it allows them just to focus on that you know it's as i said earlier we all work bloody hard for our money so just having you know making sure that most of that money is actually going into that nice kitchen

into those better quality windows into those that flooring whatever it should be that it's not being thrown up against the wall and things that they'll never see one of the great examples i give was a project i was working on in ashfield and there was two street accesses so there was one where the water assets were owned by sydney water on one side water assets were owned by inner west council on the other inner west council in sydney now that they both have different rules so there was dual access so we worked out that if we pumped the water one way there was a set of rules that were going to cost my client about 35 000 more than if we pumped the other way now sydney water it wanted us to go that way but I got the bit between my teeth and I said no no no there's got

to be a where there's got to be a way we can make this work for the betterment of my clients now it took a lot of phone calls it took a lot of time meetings with council meetings with Sydney Water working with the water services coordinator hydraulic engineers and the like but I got there I was able to ring my client and say guess what we don't need that on-site detention tank which is a giant concrete underground swimming we didn't need it so I was able to say to them look I saved of 35 grand now it took me time the flaw in our industry is that no one's ever going to make those calls because they're going to make 20 20 on that 20 35 000 you've just spent so there's no incentive to try and save that client that money there's none they actually get rewarded for not making

those 15 phone calls and having those meetings and driving you know across the other side of sydney to make sure it make it happen but for me my role and what i want i want referrals of course and I want my clients to be happy I want to be that professional good guy so I was able to ring my clients and say hey Joanne I just saved you this money and this is where we're at you know and that's the you know the fun again inefficiency is rewarded whereas you know for myself it was really a case of you know getting the bit between my teeth so I could have that that great moment or you know fist clenched going I bloody did it you know I did it I saved you that money you know Because the other good thing here is that the owner's actually got a sounding board that they can freely talk to about things without fear or favour.

And I guess as well, David, if the owner's got false expectations as well, you can quietly qualify them and get their head in the right place. Definitely. But they can trust what I'm saying. They know that I'm not doing it for any vested interest because my interests are their interest. so there are times I don't always I don't always agree with what my owner says and sometimes I'll have to say you know what the build is right he's actually right this actually does have to happen and that is the true cost but at least I know that my owners can sit back and go well that's just the way it is you know not everything's perfect but at least we know that Dave's tried to get it the

right way but this is the outcome and this is actually the best possible outcome for me save that second guessing it was one of my very first clients that was one of the things that he said and it's really always run true is you go i don't have to second guess every phone call i don't have to second guess every piece of information because i trust you dave i know you've got i know you've got my interests at heart and i genuinely do because that's my business you know without without that core element my business is nothing it doesn't actually exist i'm just one of the rest of them you know i'm just putting people on treadmills i'm just the one you know trying to maximize that but i'm not incentivized by that i start off with a fixed price at the start

the more money my clients spend, that's up to them. I'm not incentivized in any way for them to spend any more money. We define a fixed agreement right at the very start of the process in terms of the cost for my services. I can absolutely rest my head on the pillow every night knowing I save my clients multitudes more than I charge them. I absolutely know that. And again, I can safely say that, but yeah, they don't have to second guess because I'm not incentivized by inefficiencies. I'm incentivized by being able to say, and they get to the end of and go, wow, that process was amazing, Dave. Any clients that want to ring me, let them ring me,

any prospective clients. And again, that's what I'm incentivised by. And also I've just told every single friend I have that if they're building, they have to use you. And that happens. I'll be honest with you, 100% of the time I have a 0% fail rate in terms of getting to the end of the project and the client says, I can't believe that anyone would do it

on their own. Yeah, yeah. So what I love about it, you understand what everyone's talking about. You know the lingo. You know the pitfalls. You know who to talk to about what and what questions to ask and what the answers mean, whereas you're almost like putting a smart headset on someone's virtual glasses

and suddenly you're seeing the world the way it is, not the way they think it is, and you're eliminating that whole I don't know what I don't know thing, which is where people are extremely vulnerable in that situation. Absolutely. I love the way you're adding the smarts to the owner side of the equation. Just a little bit more so that, you know,

because there'll be a lot of listeners going, gee, this sounds really good. You know, it's an insurance policy really to make sure I get what I want to get. Absolutely. You touched on how you get paid. Can you give us a little bit more shape around that so that people understand where that fits?

Yeah, so I work off essentially a percentage of of my clients budgets so we define that and again it makes me accountable to a budget so again unlike everybody else that you know 600 grand turns into into a million and each job each job is different um based on workload where the client's at in terms of their process but yeah so i work off a percentage of it now i'll be honest with you i base that percentage largely on what i used to pay my sales guys and my my project coordinators within these full service building companies that i was working for so but they get that that's a cost of sale to the builder right so they pay they're paying someone to coordinate and then a margin gets applied so

someone has to do what i do but it's always done for the bit from the builder's perspective these things don't just get approved on their own they don't get managed on their own somebody is doing it you just don't know how much it's costing you under my process it's very laid out right at the start of it it's pegged against your budget so there's a particular percentage that will apply often far less than an architect will you know and the sales consultants are paid with margins and things like that so yeah it's very transparent very upfront and fixed right at the start of the project i also stage it throughout the build as well so i create what i call off ramps throughout life can change bushy as you know things can change you can you know things can turn and

all of a sudden the bank's not going to lend you the money they originally did so i don't want my people on a treadmill i want to work with you and create off ramps so my fees are very much staged throughout the program to say okay here's our pause are we right to go the next one is the budget still working is the finance still working is the design still working are all these elements still working did we get council approval you know in line with your original expectations i like to create those off ramps i'm not about trapping people that's what i'm trying to change so it's really just a case of having a systematic process as you work through once i call the first stage explore so we just explore what are we going to do what's it going to cost then we move through

to other council or private certifier approval and then tendering then final certification then while we're on site then occupation certificates so as i say i create those off ramps sometimes it's just a pause sometimes people just need to go dave i've got to pause for a bit i've got to get my ducks in line there you go there's a clear break for you to say okay we can pause now so that's how i've structured it um so in a way that is very much commensurate with what you're going to be paying anyway but rather than paying that a margin applied i've lined it up with okay yes you're still paying that but it's very transparent and my job is to save you far over that and look on to see if i can even just when it comes to negotiations um with a builder with that incentive

of i have more work um but avoiding all those margins you know just avoid i've i often cannot safely say that i've saved my clients well over my fees before and now hits a piece of timber yeah really have before any of the the other stuff comes out into the wash all the the certainty and everything that's created just by the margins up front you know when you're paying true cost for the architect true cost for the engineer true cost for the certified there's none of these things added and there's also not margins added and payment added to pay for somebody else to do what i'm doing so that's you know again that's the safety that we can create um so that's really how i like to structure it so it's very transparent and up front and very much broken up throughout

the process yeah i love it so you can sort of do it in chunks depending on where you're at and what's happening, you're not locked in from the whole thing from the get-go. No, I love the flexibility of what you're suggesting there. So I know this is going to be of interest because there wouldn't be a person listening that isn't going to be doing a renovation, extension or build at some point in time. So in that context then, and you mentioned this right

at the start, where do we need to start and what steps should we be taking then in relation to what you're doing? Yeah, look, the sooner you can contact myself in your journey, the better the more the more benefit i can bring the sooner i'm involved as i said right at the very start of this conversation and as the sign says it's where you start that often sets that journey so by starting in the wrong spot you can you're often trapped very very very early in the piece so that's not to say that i can't aid you further down the pipe if you know if any of your listeners are further down the pipe they've done the da or they're locked in with somebody you know

that i can still help but the sooner i'm involved the better so i always tell my clients if at the at the light bulb moment that's when we can get so the process for me really starts with an initial consultation that comes cost free to have that realistic budget discussion I'll be honest with you I probably go about 30 percent of people I go to see I say guys don't start because if that's your budget and that's your brief there's a gap we we either need more money which you know again we've all got finite amounts of money but we also have a finite need so if you need an extra three bedrooms to make your family work but you've only got x dollars and it's going to cost x plus a lot don't start there comes a time where you've got to start spending money i'd rather say to people

stop don't invest don't do it now i don't want people on that treadmill too often you'll get yeah let's go let's go let's go yeah your budget's that full knowledge that it's going to cost you way more but they just anticipate that you're going to go back to the bank and borrow more money those times are changing they're not that's not so easy now so start with that conversation early have a realistic budget discussion guess what this is going to cost you 500k and i'm just trying numbers here this is going to cost 500k for what you're saying well but dave i've only got 300 don't start there comes a time when you have to start spending money i'd rather cut you off now i'll give you an honest upfront appraisal at the very start if you say look

i've got 500 and i'm like i'll be honest i'll say we're tight there's going to have to be some real nuance some real process we're going to have to really keep our pencil sharp but i'm comfortable to move forward you know and then we can sit down together and say okay this is how we're going to go and this is how we're going to move forward so yeah the earlier they can start that conversation the better um again don't commit to who the one advice is don't commit to who you're going to buy off before you know how much it costs there's only one really that's hard to do that is very hard to do without having someone like myself on board so um yeah get in as early as you can get that information get the knowledge empower yourself with that knowledge as early as possible and

keep control on your side of the table for as long as possible there's even people that you know are doing minor renovations that may not need certification and council approval and architects so again my advice to those people is compartmentalize have a series of buckets there's a level of approval needed for each thing so just retiling a bathroom you don't need approval you can just get it done so put that into that bucket extending needs to go into another bucket you know knocking down a tree is another bucket let's get the bucket and again control what you can control and keep as much of that power on your side so then you might only be going to a builder for one small part you can manage those little bits on your own the painting the new window there that's

going to be like for like all those sorts of things you can control that keep those buckets separate and then say okay i'm only dealing with this one little bucket now it's not this whole elaborate project if you go to the builder with the whole elaborate project you're going to pay for that whole elaborate project and it just adds up it makes the job more complex and more difficult for a builder if you can go there with just that one little bucket and say hey i just need that small wall knocked out oh that's easy we can do that and it keeps that keeps the contract price down so fees are less you know all those sorts of things so you know i i live by a philosophy it costs me nothing to take a phone call right so i would tell countless people what i'm dealing with

them just give me a call ask me what do you think dave do you think can i go about it this way what's your advice i'm in a fortunate position where i'm not begging for customers i can just sit down and have those honest conversations very much i'm a professional good guy so i can just have those conversations say hey this is the way i think we can approach it you actually might not need me if you just want to give me a call every month and keep me abreast of what you're doing and i'll give you an updated advice we can work it that way you know it's just a but yeah get in as early as you can and you know just control what you can control yeah i love it uh that that control word again is is a key one there but uh really yeah love what you're doing and uh you know i know you're gonna

smash the industry with with what you're doing here because once people uh cotton on to uh yeah it's like taking the shades off and starting to re-look at the whole exercise from a different perspective uh there's no doubt that's going to go from strength to strength but i want to shift now into what i affectionately refer to as the uh the bushfire lightning round or the ambush around that where i give you the blindfold and cigarette and ask you the past four questions that everyone asks on a podcast and the first of those david is uh what's your favorite quote and why look i think it's a it's an albert einstein quote it's like life is life is like riding a bicycle you know you to keep your balance you must keep moving right and that's

honestly how i think it's a philosophy i've always done even before i sort of heard that quote i've always sort of lived by that it's just just keep moving forward that's it that's the only way to keep your balance if you slow down too much you'll lose folk and so just you know you don't want to be peddling it a million miles an hour but you've got to keep moving forward now whether that's in your investment profile whatever that should be whether it be you know just your general day-to-day life I think your own set and that's really what what that quote does for me is that it reflects on my own self-improvement as a as a human being as a business operator as a father all those things if I'm not moving forward I'm going to lose my balance and I'm going to lose focus of what's

really important so that's probably the number one sort of quote that I've always sort of just had you know ticking away at the back of my head just just keep moving forward sometimes things are hard sometimes it's an uphill ride but just keep moving forward and it will eventually take care of itself I love it love it I want to switch into the literary aspect perspective for a minute what's the top book that you recommend we read and why look I've I suppose going back to my investment profile. I have a genuine love for precious metals. There's a guy, some people find him controversial, but a guy by the name of Mike Maloney, who I think has a really great understanding of, you don't have to agree with everything he says, but I think it's that understanding of

money versus currency. I think it's something we don't teach financial literacy enough to our children. We don't teach them that. We spend decades working for this holy thing called money. We don't actually have an understanding of the policies made by governments, monetary policy versus, you know, all these policies that actually dictate the value of that money. So that's a really powerful thing. And I try to get anyone new sort of stepping into the, whether it be the business world or into the investment world, is try and read things like that. Try and get an understanding of what is money versus currency, because they are very different things. They truly are two different things. And that's what I think Mark articulates it in a very simple way.

um there's even videos that you can watch of his that you know sort of show that and again it goes back to a bit with your philosophies around property as well is that true value of a hard asset as well i think that's a really important thing so i really love it he's done it he's done another one recently that i've that i've read i think it's um i think it's called the gold rush um there's another one who's gold and silver investing um i think they're just really powerful books in terms of teaching the fundamentals to how the monetary system actually works yeah i love it love it i want to sort of swing into the investment arena again and get your thoughts on what's the the worst and the best piece of investment advice that you've ever received

oh look i suppose with especially particularly with equities um there was this sort of piece of advice is it's not a loss unto yourself right and that's uh that was something that i okay so what you do is you tend to hang on to your equities for too long and you know it's a leaking chip and you can see it's going down down down down down so you know the the best bit of advice i've probably learned from equity trading perspective is take the profits take the profits but also minimize your losses so so from that perspective that's definitely it without a doubt is you know don't don't become too wedded to these things you can fall in love with them and you go oh it's all right it'll come good it'll come good but you know and that idea that it's not a loss until you sell

is utter garbage the loss just becomes bigger when you sell if it's not the right equity to be in so So in terms of an investment from a trading perspective or an equity investment, that was absolutely number one for sure. I think it's applicable right across the board because there's a cost-benefit analysis in what you're talking about. If you're seeing a slow death of something rather than taking on and putting into something that's going to make you money, then you're losing on both ends of the equation.

I love that. I want to turn to sort of disciplines or rituals or happy habits that you have that you employ that you think has contributed most to your success, David? Look, I think probably one of the best ones, and I don't know, I wouldn't say it's contributed my success, but it helps me with my life in general, and it might seem really simple, but every night before I go to bed, I write a to-do list.

I used to be a terrible sleeper. I would churn and churn and churn. I'd lie awake at night, and I'm running these lists through my head. So just by I have a routine now where I come into my office, you know whatever time that should be um and i'll sit down and i'll write a to-do list it helps me sleep better but it also helps me start the following day a lot better a lot clearer so i find i'm just jumping into my day just and that small change in my daily habit has had an

exponential benefit to me in in many aspects my mental health my sleep patterns as i say my ability to kick start my following day so that's a an advice i give to every young guy that i'm you know a young lady that i'm working with that i say just try that give it a try and see what it does for you because the more you care the more you think so if you're actually thinking and you're just running these through you know there are people that have that ability just to switch off when they go to bed i'm not one of those people i'm not fortunate enough i i'm a thinker and i'm constantly it's running through my head over and over again so just by giving myself that opportunity to say okay i'm going to write that list and give myself that time had a huge benefit

So I advise that to anybody. Just write a to-do list before you go to bed. It makes a big difference. Love it because it puts your mind at rest because you go, okay, I know what tomorrow's going to look like now. I don't need to spend time staring at the ceiling all night thinking about it. Exactly.

And it orders your thoughts. It's such a great, powerful, but very simple thing to employ. So I'd encourage everyone to do exactly that if they're not doing that already. Mate, I really enjoyed the conversation and feel like we've really only just sort of scratched the surface, but I'd really like you to just summarise for us what are the key takeaways and initial actions

that aspiring and home renovators and extenders need to be taking? Yeah, look, I suppose caution. Just step forward with caution. You know, just understand that these are huge sums of money involved and some of the smallest mistakes can cost you tens of thousands of dollars. So, yeah, step forward with caution. um don't assume that because no one's trying to rip you off right but again just assume that inefficiencies are going to be rewarded so again it goes back to that control control what you can

control and just step forward with caution if you know don't believe every yes you get you know just sort of have a little bit of a skepticism involved with what's going and just understand and try and interpret that person's motivations and say our industry is not full of people trying to do the wrong thing intentionally but inevitably the wrong thing gets done right so just yes step forward with caution try and get advice and yeah just try and reach out to someone like myself as early as you possibly can now i my goal is to take this business nationally i want to be able to have an office in every whether that be via a franchise model or with myself driving each office i'm not sure yet but um you know because it is needed so you know i just think by all means reach out to

myself if there's even a bit of advice i can give you that just sets you on a track if i can't help you hands-on personally if i can give you one little bit of a fillip that you can take away just to you know step forward but yeah caution that'll be the one piece of advice is step forward cautiously there comes a time when you have to start spending money everybody wants to dive in head first and go and just start throwing money at it not always the right way to go about it so get a true understanding and just get an understanding of what's the true cost what's my true process then and only then and incrementally start to spend as little money at front as you possibly can love it really good advice there mate look for those in the audience that have

really resonated with your message like i have today david how can we find out more and get more involved with you then yeah so look i i have a website um but look the best way is to contact me via email or iphone i'm very hands-on so it's my my business is largely driven by myself um so when you when you do speak to haven advocates you're going to speak to me that's just how it's going to work so via phone i'm happy to give my phone number and my email address now um so it's just david at haven advocates.com.au so david at haven advocates.com.au um that's the best way there is a contact form it's like a lot of websites it's glitchy it goes all over the place so i think always the safest bet just contact me directly via email my phone number is also on my

website at havenadvocates.com.au so by all means just get in touch personally as i said earlier it cost me nothing to take your phone call if it's just one little bit of advice i can pass over then fantastic that's that's great you'll take something away from that conversation um so yeah get in touch directly and say via the website or ideally via email at david at havenadvocates.com.au is definitely the best way we'll put all those details on the show notes so we make it easy for people to do that as well fantastic and i really appreciate the opportunity to share mate i really do because what i do is needed um and it's um you know as i as i say the goal is to taste nationally because more and more people need to get this benefit because every single day these mistakes

are being made and a lot of money's getting thrown away and as i said earlier we all work too darn hard for it mate we're gonna we're gonna try and keep it in our side as much as we can absolutely matt i yeah i think what you're doing is actually going to level the playing field for all parties in the in the game in in actual fact because i think everyone's going to benefit from that it's the uncertainty and and control in the wrong places always creates opportunities and and issues but mate uh i'm really looking forward to keeping the conversation going so we'll no doubt talk again to talk about uh other opportunities and issues as as they arise down the track but i really want to thank you for coming on board and sharing that with us today

fantastic bush and thanks all your listeners i really appreciate the opportunity to talk to you Thanks, mate. Thanks, mate. Thanks for tuning in to Get Invested on the Property Hub podcast channel, your home for property investment insights and inspiration. And don't leave yet until you've taken the next step towards living by design by getting my award-winning book, Get Invested, absolutely free when you sign up at knowhowproperty.com.au or bushymartin.com.au.

And finally, make sure you subscribe to Property Hub to get your weekly dose of Get Invested Inspiration along with every episode of Realty Talk, Australia's leading property show for red-hot property investing news and insights direct from industry leaders and influencers. Remember to always get invested in your knowledge and I look forward to seeing you next time.