Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Here it is! Paul Roos on performance by design

Episode Date: August 13, 2021

Paul Roos is an AFL legend, regarded as one of the game's all time great leaders and mentors.  He famously led Sydney to their first premiership in 72 years (including the club's South Melbourne era), which came just three years after the Swans finished bottom of the ladder. How did the Sydney Swans achieve this? What did Paul, as a newly appointed coach, think and do that separated him from everyone else at the time? How did he do it? But before Paul was anointed as the Swan’s coach for his first full season in 2002, he was a decorated player and captain with a very impressive record of peak performance over a long period of time. He played 356 AFL games over 17 seasons kicking 289 goals and collecting an impressive array of accolades along the way, including 5 best and fairest club awards, the league’s most valuable player award, he represented Victoria on 14 occasions in State of Origin, he achieved 7 All Australian selections, he won the 1986 Leigh Matthews Medal and was runner up in the coveted Brownlow Medal the same year, which is the leagues best player for the season.  Paul had enjoyed a stellar ride as a high performing player and captain, but he was still well and truly a rookie coach when he won the Senior Coach mantel with the Swan’s in 2002. So, as a relative newcomer to leadership in the intensely pressured AFL environment where you live under a microscope for everyone to see from the 24/7 media exposure, how did he manage to take a long suffering club to the pinnacle of success in just three seasons? We discuss Paul's principles for success, covering peak performance, sustainable success, leadership, mindfulness and mental health. Just some of the talking points include: Roosy’s definition of sustainable success The criticality of developing systems The leadership scapegoating epidemic The need for role modelling The absence of and the importance of accountability The importance of personal health to your success in all aspects of your life The impact of meditation on performance And much much more. Enjoy this incredible conversation! Paul's book recommendation: Way Of The Peaceful Warrior by Dan Millman More resources: Performance by Design: And if you or your organisation is looking to improve your peak performance by design then reach out to Paul and his team at Performance By Design at www.performancebydesign.co Nuture Change: If you’re looking to strengthen the self and health aspects of your success and incorporate well being into your behaviours, then reach out to Paul and his wife Tami’s Nurture Group at www.nurturechange.com which also includes www.nurture360.com.au and www.nurtureher.com Freedom Flight Series: And if your peak performance and living by design includes investing in property to grow your wealth and replace your income so you can live more and work less, whether you’re just starting out or an existing investor looking to better optimise your portfolio, come and join me for our live interactive KnowHow Freedom Flight Information Sessions where I’ll personally guide you through my proven process for property investment success.  To book your ticket or to find out more, just jump onclick here https://knowhowproperty.com.au/freedom-fighters The Freedom Formula: If you’re a reader looking for a GPS roadmap on how to achieve long term sustainable success, grab a copy of my award winning book The Freedom Formula at bushymartin.com.au/books, where you can also get a free copy of the prequel Get Invested. Get Invested is the leading weekly podcast for Australians who want to learn how to unlock their full ‘self, health and wealth’ potential. Hosted by Bushy Martin, an award winning property investor, founder, author and media commentator who is recognised as one of Australia’s most trusted experts in property, investment and lifestyle, Get Invested reveals the secrets of the high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and the world around them. Remember to subscribe on your favourite podcast player, and if you're enjoying the show please leave us a review. Find out more about Get Invested here https://bushymartin.com.au/get-invested-podcast/  Want to connect with Bushy? Get in touch here https://bushymartin.com.au/contact/  This show is produced by Apiro Media - http://apiropodcasts.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

That really made me realise how big an effort it was, not just for the players on that day and the coaching staff, but the football club as a whole. The people have waited 72 years to see South Melbourne slash Sydney Swans win the Premiership. Here it is! The systems are really, really important and I think a lot of corporations and certainly some footy clubs just flounder because they don't put the system in place. The best systems are really clear on what their behaviours are going to be. The best systems then, you know, reward and challenge based on those behaviours. You know, I talk about behavioural-based footy clubs

or talent-based footy clubs. It's the same in corporation. You know, sustained success is built around behaviours, is built around what our actions are. Yeah, talent-based teams just rely on the best product, the best talent, best economy. you know when things are going well they're flying when things aren't going well you know they're struggling because it's all about the individual it's not about the team um and that's

one of the biggest tests you know under pressure do you do what's best for yourself or do you do what's best for the your team that's what sustained success is built on it's a process and it's monotonous and it's boring but it leads to sustained success and i talk about it all the time taking the chance out of culture you know and then then acting your way into a system and acting your way out of a system but if you're not really sure what that system is then you're leaving your culture to chance if you get a really strong system like the sydney swan system the hawthorne system you know the geelong system you know it is sustained success and it endures over a long period of time but to be perfectly frank if you want to be a high

performing team a high performing individual a high performing state country you know corporation whatever it is, you have to have an enormous level of personal accountability and team accountability. Welcome to the Get Invested podcast, where we share great conversations with experts from all walks of life to uncover their secret know-how and where they invest their time, their skills, and their money, and the benefits that this has created. You see, the truth is that everyone invests. Every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously,

some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you to start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you

to make it happen, not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less and leave a living legacy

by investing now. Listen to the show to discover the top tips on how to get started, make the most of your investment journey, and ultimately, to be living your dream, not someone else's. More episodes can be found on iTunes or at bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. Thanks for listening, and now, let's get invested. Hi, Fred and Fodders. The beginning of the year 2005 was going to be a big emotional and fateful year for my family We just didn't know it at the time

My good father, the original Bushy, was suffering from failing health After surviving cancer and a series of strokes that was punishing him physically and emotionally He was paralysed down the right side of his body and he slurred when he talked but he always managed to approach every day with a beaming smile. His bravado and courage in the face of adversity was nothing short of inspirational. And one of the major things that kept him going was his undying faith and belief

that his lifetime football club, South Melbourne Come Sydney Swans, or The Bloods as they were known, would finally win a grand final after 72 years in the wilderness, the longest premiership drought in the history of the game. Dab was a born and bred Swan supporter, and Australian rules football was like a second religion in the family. Our great-grandfather, Ron Burrows, played for the South Melbourne Bloods in the 1920s,

And he was actually vice-president of the club when they'd last won a grand final way back in 1933. So Dad had been waiting since he was a baby in nappies to see his red and whites win another premiership. And despite widespread conjecture to the contrary by just about everyone in the media, he was absolutely convinced that 2005 was going to be the swans year to bring home that long awaited flag in the years 1992 to 1994 the swans had been bottom of the ladder three years in a row and in 2002 everyone in the media had again tipped them to be bottom ranked wooden spooners after losing a lot of their star players. And they managed to finish the season 11th out of 16.

But under a new coach, they climbed rapidly to 4th in 2003 and 6th in 2004. And Dad was absolutely convinced that 2005 was going to be their year to bring home that Premiership Cup. the blood started the season with a loss and this was about the same time as dad suffered yet another stroke and was hospitalized his condition deteriorated rapidly due to some terrible

nursing neglect and he ended up dehydrated and suffering from hallucinations and he contracted pneumonia before we got him moved to intensive care another hospital and through all of this he still managed to watch his mighty swans play over east of that year sitting around his hospital bed dad and my two brothers watched sydney defeat geelong as he lay back in bed with tubes coming out of him in all directions he's pumped his one good arm and he proudly declared that this was going to be swans long awaited premiership year. It was to be the last game he got to see, and his dying declaration. A couple of days later, he slipped into unconsciousness and was given just 24 hours to live. Yet despite

the odds, he somehow managed to survive for the rest of that week, and we spent his final hours around his hospital bed watching Friday night footy, before he finally passed in the early hours of Saturday morning the 16th of April. He'd hung on till mum and dad's 45th wedding anniversary. Now as you'd appreciate, watching the Swans play for the rest of that season, and even now, was a very emotional connection for us, as each game was a reminder of Dad and his determined, dying prophecy. Now at the end of the minor round that year, the Sydney Swans had climbed to third place on the ladder.

Their finals campaign then began. After leading by 14 points at the end of the third quarter, the Swans narrowly lost the first qualifying final by four points in a highly controversial game. but they'd earned one more chance to play in the do or die elimination semi-final the following week our whole family was on tender hooks as Dad's dream was narrowly kept alive the following week

the Swans played the Geelong Cats the Sydney Bloods started very flat managing only two goals to half time and were trailing by 17 points at the end of the third term. It was going to take an absolute miracle for Sydney to win the game from this position. And this was worsened early in the final quarter

when the Cats extended their lead. The Swans' premiership dream and Dad's lifetime ambition looked dead as the final siren loomed. They looked out for the count And then, out of nowhere, this happened. the middle. The Swans are off in relay. Long from O'Keefe. Long and strong. Nick Davis is the hope. He's the hope. Will he be the hero? He's kicked 19-8 from set shots this year. Bravo. Swans are still alive. In their heart for the ground. In fact, every player,

Steve, is in the defensive 50. Every Geelong player. Unbelievable. Chance for Canelli. Davis, Davis has kicked two he snaps to a 40, don't tell me don't tell me, he's kicked a goal unbelievable stuff from Nick Davis can you believe this, he's kicked three final point of goals

and the Swans are within three points he's had a sensational game, the bend off there and the kick, that is a tough kick, to nail that under pressure the Swans within three points the clearance is important a contest with a big prize a place in the preliminary final

who wants it the most ablett keeps it in the cats want to take it over they're not daring to go after the footy the swans are okay they need a hero crouch couldn't take it Oh, how's that? Ablett, this is unbelievable stuff. Will someone stand up? O'Keefe stood, but just as soon as he stood, he was constrained. He was handcuffed. He was shoved to the ground.

Oh, how good was that? What was that? Sarin could go any second. The Swans need a goal. Nick Davis! Nick Davis! I don't believe it! I see it, but I don't believe it! Klaas with a capital C!

Four goals for Nick Davis! he has single-handedly sent them into the preliminary final they've waited all night the Cats what can they muster here there must be just seconds left that's it, it's all over the Swans into a preliminary final

what a game what a game of Australian rules football the Sydney Swans something for nothing they were no chance in this game and the hero is that man Nick Davis Four final quarter goals! Unbelievable!

Somehow, Nick Davis kicked four goals in the final quarter to win the game and the last goal in the dying seconds to put them in front. It was a freaky kick on his non-preferred left foot that came out of nowhere. We were absolutely overjoyed by the motion as we leapt around the living room. It was one of the most incredible wins in finals history. the Swans in snatching an unlikely victory had hit the front just seconds before the end of the game for the first time since the six minute mark at the start of the game

I still tear up every time I hear that footage because we were all convinced that Dad's spirit had inspired that win as you now hear from my good brother Ian Bushy Martin's appearance on Eddie Maguire's footy show the week after. Believe it or not, Sydney have not won a final on the MCG as either South Melbourne or Sydney since 1936.

Sheesh. And I don't think it's going to change, Ed. I think it's going to be a very, very close game. Really looking forward to watching Barry Hall in particular. I don't think St Kilda have got a great match-up, But you've got to pick the Saints, I think, Fez. Yeah, I'm with Luke. I think Barry Hall will have a good game,

but I don't think it'll be enough. I think St Kilda are a far, far better team. I think Saints were really good things until the weekend when they didn't play, surprisingly. And now they've come back with these big injury clouds. I reckon Harvey and Hayes and Ball and Del Sano might just get them across the line, just. Weatherman?

Oh, I reckon the Swannies will get this one. Yeah, Swannies! We understand you've got some relationship to the Swans president. My great-grandfather was the President in 1933, when they lost the war. When you won? Yes. Your great-grandfather was the President of the Swans, or South Melbourne?

Richard Burrows. Fantastic, mate. Good on you. Royalty. Yes, sir. You can see how the lineage has dropped off since 1933, can't you? You can show a bit of passion if your great-granddad was the President. did you

just speaking of that did you do you feel this is starting to come together for the Swans now after the South Melbourne dramas and all the rest of it absolutely

and my father actually passed away five months ago and he supported the Swans for 70 years so this is a year in fact I think he kicked a goal

in the last game it wasn't Nick Davis it was my father kicking the goal that was awesome work bro I loved watching that now the following week the Swans went into the Premier League final as underdogs to St Kilda as you just heard and they were behind by seven points at the final break the season was again

on the line and the premiership dream was fading but another final quarter onslaught saw the Swans boot seven goals to come out victors by 31 points yet another miraculous win Dad's Mighty Swans had repeatedly overcome the odds and defied the critics to earn their place in the grand final against the West Coast Eagles and the chance to break the 72 year long premiership voodoo The grand final started at a feverish pace with the Eagles drawing first blood to kick the opening goal just two minutes into the game

It was a tight and dour contest right from the get go with the Swans narrowly holding on to a two-point lead at the first break. We were biting our nails. A stronger second quarter saw the Swans extend their lead to 20 points by half-time. We hardly dared to dream of victory. However, the Eagles fought back bravely in the third quarter and the Bloods were lucky to hold just a two-point lead going into the final quarter. We were on the edge of our seats

But it wasn't over yet After leading for most of the match The Swans found themselves behind Three minutes into the final quarter And four minutes later The Eagles kicked another goal And Dad Swans After looking comfortable at half time

Trailed by eight points And the Premiership dream Was fading rapidly Over halfway through the final quarter the Eagles were leading by 5 points when the Swans managed to snap a goal to put the Swans 1 point in front with about 12 minutes left to play

No one knew it at the time but it was the last goal of a match as the Swans held off wave after wave of relentless and tenacious Eagles attacks With just 10 seconds left to play, the Eagles mounted one last challenge as they pumped the ball forward. A huge pack formed in the Eagles' forward pocket, about 25 metres from goal, and just when the Eagles' Mark Seby appeared likely to take a big pack mark and kick a goal to snatch victory, there was a red and white blur across the front of the pack as Leo Barry flew to take a spectacular and courageous mark.

It was the mark that won the Swans a Premiership And as he was going back for his kick The final siren blared The Swans had limped home by four points Against all of the odds For their first Premiership win since 1933 The sound of the siren opened a floodgate of emotion As a family, we broke down and wept openly and unashamedly, both for the swan's win, but also for the fulfilment of Dad's lifelong dream.

We were beside ourselves with conflicting feelings of joy and grief, a bittersweet victory with mixed feelings of pride for the amazing win and sorrow that Dad wasn't here to enjoy it with us. and victorious coach Paul Roos summed up the miraculous win beautifully with these immortal words The people have waited 72 years to see South Melbourne slash Sydney Swans win the Premiership Here it is!

Here it is! I'll never forget that year And every time I watch the Swans play, I'm reminded of Dad, the original Bushy. But the question still remains, how did the Sydney Swans manage to achieve this? How did the Bloods manage to exceed meteoric predictions of being bottom of the ladder in 2002, to become grand final premiers in just three short years? The answer lies with the newly appointed coach at the time and today's very special guest, Paul Roos

I can't tell you how excited I am to have him on the show as it's another massive tick on my bucket list and as I've mentioned before there are very few people that I truly respect and admire in fact I could count them on an amputated hand but Roosie is definitely one of them Before Paul was anointed as a Swans coach for his first full season in 2002, he was a decorated player and captain with a very impressive record of peak performance over a very long period of time.

He played 356 AFL games over 17 seasons, kicking 289 goals. and he collected an impressive array of accolades along the way that included five Best in Ferris Club Awards, the league's most valuable player award. He represented Victoria on 14 occasions in State of Origin. He achieved seven All-Australian selections. He won the 1986 Lee Matthews Medal and was actually runner-up in the coveted Brownlow Medal the same year,

which is the league's best player for the season. He's also the AFL-VFL record holder for the number of games played wearing the number one jumper which he wore throughout his career with both the Fitzroy Lions and the Sydney Swans. Paul has enjoyed a stellar ride as a high-performing player and captain but he was still well and truly a rookie coach when he won the senior coach mantle with the Swans in 2002.

So as a relative newcomer to leadership in the intensely pressured AFL environment, where you live your life under a microscope for everyone to see from the 24-7 media exposure, how did he manage to take a long-suffering club to the pinnacle of success in just three seasons? what did he think and do that separated him from everyone else at the time how did he do it well it's no surprise to me that Paul was a man with a plan this one success was no accident

it was the epitome of peak performance by design and his pioneering insights and innovations that were very quickly transformed the destiny of the Swans as well as the Melbourne Daemons and now the North Melbourne Kangaroos that Paul has and continues to work with and has set the benchmark for successful leadership in the elite sport ever since has been built on three key experiences. Firstly, his last 10 weeks as a player spending time on the bench. We had the opportunity to sit beside the coach

and observed what it was like for players at all levels, which focused his attention on the need to never forget the player's perspective and what they're going through when you become a coach or a leader. And this resulted in Paul's famous 25 points. Secondly, his time observing and meeting with elite sports across a number of codes in the USA when he took a year's sabbatical after he retired from playing helped him to gain many insights that could be applied to AFL and the corporate world. And lastly, the time he spent being forced to document his coaching and leadership manifesto

that he presented to the Sydney Swans board in order to win the senior coaching role. This combination of reflective observation, taking in outside influences and documenting his vision and plan have been the cornerstones of his coaching and leadership success and need to be the keys to your approach if you're looking to achieve any form of high performance. So let's drill into this because it's all been documented in his awesome book Here It Is, which reads like a blueprint for success in any endeavor, not just sport. the individual and team principles and processes that are outlined in Ruzi's book read like a management manifesto without the fluff and the jargon and I'm confident that if

you apply his approach to any area of your life you'll be on the road to peak performance and sustainable success and it's uncanny how much his principles and approaches captured in here it is mirror what my awesome wife Sonia and I have done in our personal and business endeavours. So, as I outline some of the key insights from Paul's book, Here It Is, apply them to your own situation as an individual, employee, team member, team leader, business owner or board member. They're all universally applicable. They are the essence of Paul's performance by design, which aligns with our own philosophy of living by design not by default to live with intent

to make it happen not let it happen and his life philosophy also echoes our belief that sustainable success is a long-term journey of staying the course and holding your nerve that lies at the intersection of self health and wealth where self is your mental well-being including your mindset, outlook, attitudes, beliefs and expectations. Health is about your physical well-being in terms of sleep, breathing, diet, meditation, exercise and the happy habits, rewarding rituals and daily disciplines that you apply that create the discipline, patience and persistence to achieve long-term results. And together, yourself and your health allow you to achieve your definition of success

in your wealth, be it work, career, business, and where you invest, be it property, shares, business, et cetera. It's about attending to your personal, professional, and passive income lives in parallel in a balanced way that attains and maintains your ideal lifestyle. And Rosie's life is a living testimony to this consistent approach. So let's break down the key philosophies captured in Rousey's Here It Is book. And let's start with his now famous 25 points that he crafted when he was sitting on the bench at the end of his playing career that were and continue to be the cornerstone of his success with the Swans, Melbourne and now North Melbourne. And as I go through these, feel free to substitute the words leader for coach, team member for

player etc as the points are equally applicable to sport as they are to our personal and our working lives. So here's Roosie's 25 points. 1. Always remember to enjoy what you're doing. 2. The coach's attitude will rub off on the players. 3. If the coach doesn't appear happy and relaxed, the players will adopt the same mentality. Four, never lose sight of the fact that it's just a game of football. Five, the coach's job is to set strategies, team plans, team rules, team disciplines, specific instructions to players. Six, good communication skills. 7. Treat people as you want to be treated yourself 8. Positive reinforcement to players

9. Players don't mean to make mistakes they don't go out to lose 10. There are 42 senior players all with different personalities so deal with each one individually to get the best out of them 11. Never drag a player for making a mistake 12. Don't overuse interchange

13. Players go into a game with a different mental approach 14. Enjoy training 15. Make players accountable for training, discipline, team plans because it's their team too 16. Weekly meetings with team leaders 17. Be specific at quarter, half, three-quarter time by re-addressing strategies. Don't just verbally abuse. 18. Motivate players by being positive.

19. After the game, don't fly off the handle. If you're too emotional, say nothing and wait until Monday. 20. Surround yourself with coaches and personnel that you know and respect 21. Be prepared to listen to advice from advisors 22. Keep training interesting and vary when necessary 23. Team bonding and camaraderie is important for a winning team 24. Make injured players feel as much a part of the team as possible players don't usually make up injuries

and 25 training should be game related for example the San Francisco 49ers the backs versus the forwards and training against the clock these 25 points are universal and they're timeless they're not rocket science

and they don't need to be but what separates the best from the rest is that they not only adopt the principles but they continuously and relentlessly apply them until the thoughts become actions which become habits which become behaviours which become the culture and the system of operation until it becomes intuitive and success becomes the inevitable outcome and by-product.

These 25 points were further fused when Ruzzi was forced to present to the Sydney Swans board to win the coaching job over some pretty hot competition. And to do this, he sat down and documented his coaching vision and his management manifesto. He knew the Swans needed significant change and he had so many thoughts running around his head. Setting it out in a presentation clarified his opinions about pre-season training, about developing players, about recruiting.

His ideas were translated into a logical, clear action plan. He gave him a guide for the road ahead. And it only took him about 15 hours to crystallise and put together the presentation covering his coaching philosophy, training philosophy, game plan, recruiting and business plan. It talked about areas where they needed to improve. It looked at the individual players and the way they wanted to play. He set out where they were at the end of 2002,

to, where they wanted to get to, and how they could get there. This is a great blueprint for a personal or a business plan. So when was the last time you spent 15 hours getting clear on your vision, what you're trying to achieve, where you are now, and how you're going to bridge the gap? So to get you motivated, here are the highlights from Ruzi's presentation. Let's start with his vision. His vision was to inspire, teach and lead the Sydney Swans to become winners. His general philosophy centred around being united. Everyone needed to be on board, all were involved, all had an important role and all needed to

be heading in the same direction. Everyone needed a common purpose and synergy between the chairman, the CEO, the football manager, the coach and the player group. Everyone needed to stick to their own job, execute it, and be as one in achieving the bigger vision. He focused on excellence, which translated to leading by example, taking no shortcuts, attention to detail, and a do-or-die desire for success. It meant leaving no stone unturned to create an environment where excellence was the minimum standard. the coach had to set the scene to show the team what a professional athlete looked like and how they needed to behave it meant developing a strong club culture a sense of belonging a

sense of history pride in working for the swans and instilling a positive environment if rusey could establish great values customs and habits at the club a culture that all all the players bought into would forge a stronger club. He wanted the players to connect with their history and reach greater heights, playing for something bigger than themselves, and was always based on what was better for the team, not the individual. To be a privileged to wear the red and white jumper. His vision was to develop more leaders among the playing group by getting the players more involved in shaping the club and keeping themselves was accountable. He wanted to encourage players to have more ownership over discipline, game

planning, meetings and training. The players were to be treated as shareholders of the club, not just employees. He wanted the players to get invested in the club. He focused on the critical need for respect, loyalty and brutal honesty at all times, especially when under pressure. He was saying that just because they're a team doesn't mean that they lie to each other. They don't talk behind people's backs and don't back away from having the hard face-to-face conversations. It was not about winning and losing. It was more about the kinds of values and behaviours that they wanted as an organisation and deciding what they stood for. He analysed and defined the key performance indicators or KPIs that had the biggest impact on their success.

Clean ball gathering of the ground balls and effective tackling were the two closely guarded stats that would guide their success for years given their massive impact on winning games. He employed benchmarking to rank the team against the best in the competition so they could identify where they needed to improve. And his concluding goal was clear, to inspire, teach and lead the Sydney Swans to be winners and ultimately deliver a premiership. Now, he presented all of this in September 2002

and just three years later, the Swans won their first grand final in 72 years, should I say. now it was about formulating and getting everyone to commit to and sticking to a specific agreed plan and then concentrating on processes rather than outcomes to stick to an agreed system it reinforces the importance of taking the time to really visualize something and saying it out loud to make it happen now many of these aspects are now commonplace in elite sporting clubs and some corporations. But at the time, they were groundbreaking. And once Roosie's manifesto was endorsed and he was engaged as senior coach,

his 25-point coaching notes and his 40-page plan and management manifesto then needed to be embedded into the club by empowering the players in getting their engagement and how the team and club was to run. He constantly reminded himself to focus on strong honest relationships built on trust. He created a circle of safety where real talk was fostered. What our know-how business calls brutal honesty keep stop start sessions where everyone openly discusses what each and every team leader, team member needs to keep doing, stop doing and start doing. Empowering the team was about getting the team to establish and then drive their own standards and their own discipline code. The Swans players came up with their three trademark words on how they wanted

to be perceived. Hard, disciplined and relentless. And all this was encompassed by calling themselves the Bloods, the nickname that used to be associated with the old South Melbourne club. In similar fashion, our know-how pride are driven by our credo that no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care. And our level of care is driven by our 4F100 formula that measures our success in the eyes of our clients and what's important to them. Everything we do in caring for others must be fast, frequent, friendly and fun, and be underpinned by our personal 100% accountability and zero excuses. The Swans team then developed their own team rules and behaviours that everyone agreed to adhere to,

that would effectively become their way of life and culture. How would a blood behave both on and off the field? They came up with their non-negotiable behaviours, which included that they would always put the team first, that they'd be honest with each other, they wouldn't back away from any contest, they would always give 100% effort, and they wouldn't wait for others to act.

They'd be united and accountable to each other. If one person did the wrong thing, then they pledged that the whole group would have to pay. So what about you? What are your behaviours and your non-negotiables? Well, as an example, for our know-how business, our agreed team behaviours include making a daily choice to be happy, being fast, friendly and responsive in everything we do.

We improve every day and always question how we can do things better. We under-promise and over-deliver by saying exactly what we're going to do, by when, for who, and then we over deliver. We only work with those that share our values so we don't work with jerks even if it could be financially beneficial. We only do those things that improve the experience, relationships or the profitability of the business. We don't have meetings for the sake of meetings and we leave everyone smarter and smiling. And our know-how non-negotiables include total personal

responsibility, which means 100% accountability and zero excuses. We own our mistakes and we fix them. We always communicate who, what, when and where. And if it isn't written down, it didn't happen. There's no egos allowed and we adopt a no wanker policy. We demonstrate total direct honesty. If we're not prepared to say something to someone's face, we don't say it. And rewards are team and results based, not individual. And our weekly team meetings and one-on-ones are mandatory. Now once you've set this behavioural framework it's then easy for the team to decide on who the supporting leaders should be based on who exhibits these behaviours the best. And once your behaviours have been agreed it's then important to continuously talk about them

and create a system to reinforce them so that each individual knows their role and plays their role in the context of the shared vision and goals. Now this is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of the gold that Ruzi shares in his book, Here It Is. So if you and your team or club or business or corporation don't have a philosophy, a program and processes aimed at achieving peak performance by design, then do yourself a favour and grab a copy of his book because it's an easy and awesome read. And we expand on these principles and many more in our great conversation today, where we cover peak performance, sustainable success, leadership, mindfulness and mental health as we dig into Bruzy's definition of sustainable success, the criticality of developing systems,

the leadership scapegoating epidemic, the need for role modelling, the absence of and the importance of accountability, the importance of personal health to your success in all aspects of your life, the impact of meditation on performance and much, much more. Now don't be too distracted by the birds squawking in the background. Perhaps it's a swan or the spirit of my dad chirping in to reinforce Ruzi's arguments. And if you or your organisation is looking to improve your peak performance by design, then reach out to Paul and his team at Performance by Design at www.performancebydesign.co Or if you're looking to strengthen the self and health aspects of your success

and incorporate well-being into your behaviours, then reach out to Paul and his wife Tammy's Nurture Group at www.nurturechange.com which also encompasses www.nurture360.com.au and www.nurtureher.com and if your peak performance and living by design includes investing in property to grow your wealth and replace your income so you can live more and work less whether you're just starting out or an existing investor looking to better optimize your portfolio then come and join me for our live

interactive know-how freedom flight information sessions where i'll personally guide you through my proven process for property investment success to book your ticket or to find out more just jump on knowhowproperty.com.au forward slash freedom fighters or just click the link in the show notes or if you're a reader looking for a gps roadmap on how to achieve long-term sustainable success also grab yourself a copy of my award-winning book the freedom formula on bushymartin.com.au forward slash books we can also grab a free copy of the prequel get invested and if you're as excited as I am to enjoy Paul Roos' words of wisdom, then this is the moment that you've been waiting for, because here it is!

Welcome, Freedom Fighters. Now, as you may know, I'm a big believer that sustainable success lies at the intersection of the three elves, self, health, and wealth. Self is how we think, our mindset, and our mental health. Health is about the daily disciplines, the rewarding rituals and the happy habits we developed that become the behaviours that are the engines of our success, and wealth is what we invest in to attain and sustain our lifestyle. In other words, how we think, what we do, and where we invest our time, our energy and our resources.

And I'm a firm believer that sustainable success is an elite team sport over a long-term journey of at least 15 odd years, and not about one-hit wonders or overnight sensations. and in our current times of radical uncertainty to achieve sustainable success as individuals and in our teams we need great leaders who are caring change catalysts and culture building kings and if i search for the one person that i think best embodies and demonstrates all of these success traits over his very long and successful career it's today's very special guest and another one of my virtual mentors paul ruse so i'm really honored humbled and very excited to have you on the show today Paul so welcome and let's get invested. Thanks Bushy yeah thanks for having

me on I'm excited to have a good chat to you. Same to you mate now Reggie you've you'd have to be living under a rock in Australia not to know who you are but for those overseas listeners who aren't big AFL fans can you start by just telling us who you are what you're currently doing and why you do what you do most importantly mate. Yeah absolutely yeah well I'm married to an So I've spent a little bit of time explaining the game of Australian Rules Football to Tammy, her friends and family and things like that. So, yeah, look, Australian Rules Football is the equivalent to the National Football League or Premier League Soccer or the big soccer comps in Europe. So it's the biggest sport in Australia. I started as a 17-year-old at Fitzroy when it was sort of semi-professional back in the early 80s.

and then it turned fully professional around about mid-90s when I started playing with the Sydney Swans. So I played 13 years with Fitzroy. I got transferred to Sydney Swans, played for four years there and then I started coaching them in 2002, midway through 2002, coached them for eight and a half years. We were really, really fortunate. I'm sure we'll touch on it.

We won the Premiership, which is the Super Bowl or the FA Cup. We won that in 2005 and it was the first time the club had won that 72 years so that was incredibly exciting yeah it took a bit of a break and then um got us to come and coach the melbourne football club which was which is a very different experience they were a really poor team they'd only won two games and lost 20 the year before and had about six or seven years of losing so it was really more of a leadership change uh coaching role and changing roles at the club and putting good people in and there was succession plan and thankfully melbourne have gone back up the ladder, which is fantastic.

So, Bushy, does that give people enough information? It certainly gives a really good flavour, mate. There's no doubt about it. Now, I guess sort of going right back to your early days, mate, from a very early age you were clearly a talented sportsman across tennis, basketball and footy. Why did you pursue footy over the other codes? Yeah, I played in 1979, I think it was.

I played in the Victorian basketball state team and the Victorian football state team. So they were the two main sports. I loved the social aspect of tennis. I loved tennis, but I certainly wasn't at the level of Pat Cash or someone like those guys back in those days. But, yeah, certainly basketball and football, I guess it was more of a natural progression.

You get invited down to Fitzroy Footy Club, which is one of the main VFL teams back then, and you're just really excited to get part of the system. The basketball system was less obvious back then. There was no NBL. There was a VBL or VBA or whatever it was called, and obviously you could represent your country, but it was pretty hard to sort of see yourself as one of the best 10

or 12 players in Australia to go to the Olympics. Clearly that would have been exciting. The other avenue was to go to college, but not many kids back then would go to college in America. So it was more just natural forces more than anything else. I got invited down to Fitzroy, started playing in the under-19s, and then direct my attention into AFL football. Yeah, good stuff.

Do you believe your talent was more about nature or more about nurture or a combination of both? I think a combination of both. I mean, there's no doubt my parents had a massive influence. We talk about tennis. My mum and dad were both tennis players. My dad was a football player. My mum was a really, really good tennis player.

Yeah, dad was a good social tennis player and president of the tennis club. So, and where we live too, I mean, we grew up out in Donvale when it was sort of a new development out there, a lot of orchards and creeks and outdoor areas, new basketball facilities and good footy grounds and things like that. So I think it was both. I mean, I think, yeah, I was naturally coordinated and naturally talented, but I spent so many hours practising.

You know, we had a basketball ring in the backyard, obviously kicking the footy. you know my my week would have been monday night basketball tuesday wednesday sorry tuesday football wednesday basketball thursday football friday night basketball saturday morning and saturday afternoon basketball saturday night basketball and sunday football yeah that really was your week back then yeah and you just fit school in to basically learn some stuff and spend some time uh away from sport i guess and there was no such thing as homework back then either we didn't do any homework at all it was we didn't have any homework to do so um yeah my

whole life was basically immersed in sport yeah love it man now as you touched on earlier as a long-term elite player you played 356 odd games over 17 seasons from 82 right through to 98 and you were Fitzroy's captain for a third of those games what routines and rituals did you adopt that allowed you to be so successful for so long as a player yeah I think one of the great things about sport it is very very structured you know so yeah whether you like it or not you know you are in a structured environment so when I started playing at Fitzroy you know pre-season we trained to three mornings a week including Saturday morning four evenings a week as well and you know so you're really into a routine really early and and as I said we were part-time so I'd you

know pre-season you get up at six o'clock you go to train at Kerford Road which was a beach area you know just in near the city and then I'd go to my first job was at the AMP then I'd go to work all day and then I'd come back and train at five o'clock at night so yeah that real structure and discipline was really evident from day one you know and you really get into a routine and you stay in a routine and then really it's how hard you want to work and how much time you want to put in and and I had really great mentors as well at the Fitzroy Footy Club and I was really really fortunate that to have them yeah awesome what do you think uh allowed you to perform so well for so long under such intense pressure paul yeah it's a good question um i i a lot of i think a lot of

that comes back to my parents i think you talked about nature or nurture i think i think that part was probably nature you know my dad was was a really calm person and you know quite thoughtful and, you know, my mum was super competitive and I probably got the best of those traits from my parents. So when I look back now when you asked me the question, I think it was the ability to stay calm in a really competitive environment and the ability to be competitive when you were calm, if that makes sense. So, you know, I think that allowed me to become the player

that I was able to become because I had a really good mix of those traits from my parents. hmm some good DNA working for you there mate um so tell me you touched on it as well uh who were your role models and why did you consider them role models at the time yeah it's interesting when I it's only when I look back on it now when I was about 22 23 I realized how important they were when I went down there I don't think we naturally understand how role models are if we're really smart we just look at guys and girls that do the right thing so when I went to Fitzroy Footy Club and I got on the senior list you know the senior players were Bernie Quinlan,

Gary Wilson, Nicky Conlon, Laurie Serafini, Ross Thornton, Lee Carlson and they're really good people you know really really good people so you know and we say this at Performance by Design my company I run them you know you ask the newest person in a business what the culture is like and they'll tell you that they won't tell you what's written on a wall they'll tell you what the behaviors are so for me walking into that footy club we didn't have any you know values on the wall or behaviors or leadership groups we just had actions now the actions of those guys were you train really hard and you got the training on time and you left late and on an optional night you came down to practice your skills and when we when we socialized together we were respectful of

each other respectful of other people when we went on footy trips together we were respectful of everyone so I learned that from a really young age and it probably wasn't until I became captain that I realized how lucky I was to have great role models at the Fitzroy Footy Club and you talk about sustained success I mean I walk with those guys on a Sunday morning now you know that's 40 years on I have such a great relationship and they shaped so much of my beliefs as a player and as a coach, and as a husband, as a father, you know, all walks of life. So, you know, they're really, really special to me, those guys. Yeah, I bet they are.

There's no doubt about it. And some absolute legends with those names you've just mentioned. Mate, you were captain at Fitzroy from 88 to 90 and then a break back again, 92 to 94. And, you know, as you would know with your business performance by design in many sports and businesses the best technical performers are often appointed as the leaders but a good performer doesn't necessarily mean you're a good leader what do you believe you were selected as captain and how did you become captain once you became captain did you change at all if any and what do you now believe makes a good leader of a team yeah it's interesting i think captaincy

and leadership in sports evolved dramatically now i'm not suggesting i wouldn't have been captain But I think now we, you know, at Sydney Swans, we sort of set up our behaviours first and then we pick our leadership group on the back of the behaviours and then we pick our captain on the back of that. Whereas when I was elected captain, you know, typically it was one of your best players. And look, most of the time, certainly the guys that I followed as captain had great behaviours and were really good leaders. But often it was just, you know, the best player on the team or the top two or three players in the team sort of thing. But I always felt that the captain always had to be a role model, you know, had to train hard, had to play really well on the weekend. Particularly playing was really important because, you know, we didn't spend that much time with each other. We trained really hard.

But, you know, the games were really important. The games were important as a captain then. I think now what I realise about captaincy, you know, in an AFL sense now and being coach of Sydney and seeing how captaincy evolved, it's probably the whole person. You know, being a really good role model off the field, on the field, at training now because they're full-time. You know, if you aren't training, you're mentoring other players. So a lot of things that we really didn't have time to do. And your point is incredibly relevant about the corporate world. The corporate world often just picks leadership groups based on technical skills.

And really, it's the biggest mistake you can make. You know, we talk about that. Well, I talk about team and talent. you know, or character and competence or relationship and transaction or whichever way you want to put it. But most, you know, promotions are done based on transaction, you know, based on talent, you know, and really once you get to a leadership position, you're not really in the business.

You're over the business and you're leading people, but that's probably the biggest thing that people find hard to get out of the business and to lead people. But certainly being a good role model, being a good mentor mentor and influencing others is a really important part of it yeah no question about it and you mentioned a couple times already the importance of setting up the behaviors first and then once you've agreed the behaviors pick the person who's going to best demonstrate those behaviors and and just by simply doing that you eliminate this tendency just to go oh let's just pick the best

player or the best person in the team and and whack a captain's hat on him or a leader's hat on him and and then wonder why it doesn't work yeah it's funny when i'm listening to commentary now or listening to a footy show and someone says oh he's the next captain it's impossible to be outside a footy club now and know who the best captain is but you look at yeah some of the old school commentators and they still probably don't understand what a captain does and they talk about you know i you know the captain's got a lead on the field yeah he does but there's way more to that and it's certainly a really important part of it but yeah the best systems are really clear on what their behaviors are going to be the best systems then you know reward and challenge based

on those behaviors pick their leadership group and out of that the captain comes out of that leadership group and if you get a really strong system like the sydney swan system the hawthorne system you know the geelong system you know it is sustained success and it endures over a long period of time yeah and and that word system uh is a really important important uh reference i think to rosie because uh you know in sport and in business uh the quality and the sustainability of a performance long term comes down to the quality of the the systems that uh support it and if the systems are a bit loose and people aren't too sure about their roles or as you say aren't too clear on what the culture means

in terms of how you do things around here. That's where a lot of the issues arise, I've no doubt, and that's probably what you're seeing with some of the clubs that you've been assisting with Melbourne and now most recently North Melbourne, I would imagine. Yeah, you're 100% right. I mean, the systems are really, really important and I think a lot of corporations and certainly some footy clubs

just flounder because they don't put the system in place and i talk about all the time taking the chance out of culture you know and then then acting your way into a system and acting your way out of a system but if you're not really sure what that system is then you're leaving your culture to chance now if you get enough good people you're going to be fine you know because they're going to naturally have really good behaviors but you and i very well know that that's not normally the case you know but if you get a really really clear system in place it's a lot easier for people to get rewarded and a lot easier for people to get challenged and as i said a lot easier for people to act their way in to the system or act their way out of the

system and it works incredibly well but then you're right there's still a massive massive difference between good footy clubs and bad footy clubs and probably even a wider gap between good corporations and bad corporations yeah i think you make a really good point there in relation to acting your way in or acting your way out uh and the and the reliance also if you're purely reliant on the quality of the people and that person changes for whatever reason and then you don't have a system that's going to support that behavior then the performance of the individual and the team could drop pretty substantially if it doesn't have that real focus on systems and behaviors what's your thoughts on that yeah i agree i was speaking to

someone i might mention a company and i was talking to someone the other day and he he'd been in a couple of really really huge corporations and we were talking about his leadership journey and he said oh look when such and such was the leader of this organization it was just terrible absolutely terrible and then he mentioned the other guy's name who came in and become the ceo and he said i just turned it around but then the problem with which what he said is unfortunately the really really good ceo didn't put the systems in place so then of course when the next ceo arrived the place went to garbage again you know so you're right all it was it was relying on the ceo their their personality and their behaviors if they're really good and people emulated them

then the company became really positive if they were poor then the company just dropped off again so they hadn't done anything around harnessing those behaviors harnessing those systems and understanding what made them great and then all of a sudden the person changed and they just went down the toilet again so you're 100 right yeah okay now i wouldn't mind just delving in very briefly into a couple of the the low lights and the highlights of your playing career if you don't mind uh and there's one of them that stands out for me you know during the off season in 1990 as i understand it you're overseas in the us and you got a call from your manager to say that fitzroy was going to cut your pay by a third and you were being traded to Collingwood.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but at the time you'd been the Fitzroy captain for two or three years, you'd won the club's best and fairest twice, you'd achieved all Australian honours at least three times, you'd been the club's highest goal kicker that season, I think, and you were one of the league's most valuable players. So tell us about what happened at that time, how it made you feel and what did you do and, most importantly, what did you learn from it? Yeah, I might back up a little bit just to give the people

a bit of context, particularly the people that don't know Australian rules football. So about seven games to go in 1986. Our president, Leon Weigard, came to us on a Sunday morning. We were training at Westleigh College, just on a tennis court, just doing a recovery session. He said, guys, we've got some really bad news. We're going to fold at the end of the season.

We can relocate to Brisbane. They're looking at a new team. or we can merge with a Melbourne-based club. So we, on the back of that, we won six of our last seven games, made the finals, and the club was saved. I think it was a company called Hecron, which is a building company. So really post that, things were really precarious from a financial point of view.

So we were sort of aware of the situation with the club, and whilst they always paid us, there was a lot of, you know, we had to move our payments back and some guys got deferred by months and et cetera, et cetera. So it was a really difficult period. Yeah, so I was overseas at the end of 1990, and I got a phone call from Damien Smith, the manager, my long-term manager, and he said, oh, look, you're sitting down.

I said, why? He goes, and I was captain of the footy club. He said, look, the club wants you to take a 33% pay cut or they'll trade you the club of your choice or they'll delist you. I'm like, are you kidding me? So no. So he said, look, and just so you know, Collingwood are really keen for you to come.

They reckon they can do a deal with Fitzroy. I got a phone call from Lee Matthews. I think it was at the time I was coaching. They'd just won the premiership. Never did I get a phone call from anyone at Fitzroy, which was – and then Damien said, look, do you want to come back? Collingwood, you know, there's the contract. Do you want to come back?

I said, yeah, look, if I'm going to get traded, I want to be back in Australia. And so I flew all the way back with Tammy, flew back to Australia. We were sitting around. Still no one from Fitzroy had contacted me at all. and I was sitting there waiting, waiting. The deadline went past, got a phone call from Collingwood saying, look, we just couldn't get anyone from Fitzroy, none of the players. Sorry, we couldn't get anyone from Collingwood to go to Fitzroy,

so we couldn't actually get a trade done because we couldn't, none of our players would go to Fitzroy because everyone was aware, you know, how financially strapped the club was, so Collingwood couldn't get anyone to go there. Trade period had finished. I actually picked up the phone and I rang the Fitzroy Footing Club and I spoke to the CEO. I said, well, what's the deal?

He said, no, okay, we're going to honour your contract. I said, well, I'm going to head back to America. They said, yeah, that's fine. So I took off again, but it was only that I rang them and then that's when I resigned as captaincy. I resigned the captaincy that year and I said, well, look, if you don't want me as a player, then I can hardly be the coach or the captain of the footy club.

Robert Shaw came in. He was the new coach, so he wasn't part of it. And then the CEO changed and I think the board changed And then at the end of that year, I signed on again, I think, for another three years. So, look, all was sort of forgotten. But it was, yeah, it was a pretty tough period and a really difficult period in the club. Did it demotivate you? I mean, there's a couple of things there that stand out for me.

I mean, I'm thinking about how I run a business, Paul. And for my best team member to find out from someone else that pretty much they're going to slice your pain and flick you somewhere else would have been pretty devastating. Management 101 would tell you that's not a smart move. Why is it, do you think, that you found out that second hand, so to speak, and flowing on from that? How did that affect your motivation? because I mean I've seen people in similar situations they either quit and go or they were still they quit and stay and in staying because you're demotivated that it still has an ongoing impact on how you perform and how the team performs how did that relate to you

yeah look I probably learned a lot of not what to do from a leadership point of view from that period because you're right I mean some of the things were just I couldn't believe you know like the fact that I was captain of the club and had been there and won a couple of best and Ferris have been a pretty good player and then no one bothered to ring me so I did learn a lot around leadership and what it is and what it isn't so whilst it was a difficult period then it was probably something when I look back on I go well this is what I'm never going to do you know I'm never going to do some things like that and I think I think coming back it's about personal pride it's about what your standards are what your values are and not letting other people control

that and as I said we had a new coach come in and you know so I was able to put that aside and and I great teammates great friends within the team so you sort of compartmentalize that and you say well okay even though the club itself doesn't want me you know that's not the case with the coach that's not the case with the players but I did resign from the captaincy so I was really disappointed in the footy club but I was able to put that aside and personal motivation personal pride and you know i was able to have a pretty good year in 91 and 92 and you know was able to put that behind me but yeah look it's certainly very difficult when you you're sort of not valued and you're coming back to the club yeah yeah now one of the other i guess

low lights and this is me looking in from the outside because i've read in your book here it is that in your last season with the swans for the first time in your whole career you spent roughly 10 games on the bench how did that make you feel and and what did you learn from that experience at the end of your career yeah so the last last 10 games um i started you know on a lot of them on the bench and um i did learn a lot it was actually a really good period because and at the end of 1998 i actually wrote down a lot of things i liked about the leaders and didn't like about the leaders that i had and i think that was prompted by probably a new way to look at footy you know prior to that I'd been picked first every week or second or your top half dozen and

won best and fairest and being captain but suddenly yeah your your skills yeah your athletic talent is waning I was 35 years of age and it's actually interesting because I put myself in different shoes and I started to think gee not everyone is really confident going the game every week so it was it enabled me to look at footy from a different point of view so whilst it was frustrating and disappointing yeah it was probably one of the best things that happened you know and So I worked my way through it and still was able to play some reasonable footy and probably didn't agree with some of the things that Rocket was doing.

But, you know, he was the coach and, look, he was pretty good at communicating and, you know, there was never too much angst or anything like that. But, yeah, it led me to write down my leadership code and my 25 points it turned out to be and it was the best thing I did and I had him at desk for eight and a half years at Sydney and three years when I was at the Melbourne Footy Club and I learned a lot through that period.

Yeah, it's quite often the hardship and the challenges that teach us the most I've found on my own journey, Paul, and I'm still a mad keen field hockey player and at the tender age of 60 I'm nowhere near as fast or as sharp as what I used to be, but I'm still out there running around with the boys and quite often now, you know, the brain knows where I want to be but the body's a couple of seconds behind me, Paul,

and dealing with the expectations of the other players around me and I quite often rest myself because I just don't have the legs that the younger guys do. That's been quite challenging for me, but learning a lot about how I need to come into a game without putting massive expectations on myself and learning that in terms of how you were then going into the coaching role and then treating those players to keep them motivated and focused

would have been pretty useful, I would have thought. Yeah, and I always encourage when we're talking to exec teams and leaders, I actually always encourage them to do that now themselves, even though they're in a leadership position. So you're right. So take yourself back, take yourself what it was like to be, you know, when you first walked into the bank or you first walked into the accounting firm you're working and what you like about your leaders

and what you didn't like about your leaders. So, I mean, every opportunity is a learning opportunity. you know, whether that's learning from winning or learning from failure. So you're absolutely right. And it's also adapting. What you're doing now is, you know, a compliment you're on and continuing to play and enjoying playing, but you've also got to adapt, don't you?

You've got to sort of say, well, I love the game and I love playing and I try and play my boys in tennis and basketball. But you've got to start, your brain's got to start to work before, doesn't it? You know, you've got to start thinking, well, what's a young person thinking? Where are they going to go? So, yeah, it is really fascinating when you continue playing sport.

You know, I'm 58, so your brain's working a lot harder than what it was when you were playing at 25, I can assure you. Yeah, just on that subject, something I've noticed is interesting, and I spoke to Mark Bickley about this when I had him on the podcast a while back. Once most players retire from AFL level, many of them never play the game again. You know, I'm just interested in why that is. And, you know, if you love the game so much and you enjoy the camaraderie, why would you walk away from it totally?

I mean, a bit different in your case because you've gone on with coaching and commentating and you've still got an active involvement in the game from that level. But it's always intrigued me, mate. What's your thoughts around that? Yeah, probably a couple of things. I actually started playing basketball again. So that was my outlet.

I play a really high level of basketball. So I absolutely loved it. So I was able to fulfil a bit of a childhood dream of I stopped playing basketball when I was sort of 17, 18. So I went back to basketball and played some really high level and I really, really enjoyed that. I think there's a safety factor in AFL footy. I think for me probably personally it was a case of I've got

through 17 years, yeah, with a few injuries but nothing dramatic. I think given the physicality of the game, I think that's the main thing. I think it's just the fear of, well, what if I do a knee or break a leg or, you know, do something like that. And I think, you know, some do. You know, Boomer Harvey's still playing now, which is great, and some do. But I think largely it's just the fear of getting injured when you've been through a system and sort of got through the system relatively unscathed.

You just don't want to put yourself in that position again. Yeah, that's a good call. And the physicality of that level and having the support to going into a situation where it's probably a little bit more amateur and then you're more exposed to potential injury risks is probably a pretty good deterrent. I hadn't thought about that aspect. But let's turn now to your coaching and leadership career, you know, because I've often said that the two worst jobs in Australia, I believe,

are an AFL coach or a politician because if you're winning, it's the players who get the credit, but if you're losing, it's always the coach's fault. But a couple of questions. Why did you decide to become a coach? Is it something you were approached and groomed to do or was it something that you wanted to do? Yeah, so I went over to season 1999 and lived with my wife Tammy's family and I just didn't want to, when I say waste the year,

it was a fantastic year with Tammy's family, but I wanted to learn some stuff. So I actually went around. I went to the Chicago Bears, Chicago Bulls, the 49ers, Denver Broncos, Broncos, San Diego Chargers, LA Lakers. So I had a really good year, a really good learning year. So that was – and then I came back in 2000. I did some part-time commentary for Seven and also worked on the Olympics

for C7, which was their paid TV. And I did some part-time work for Sydney as an assistant defensive coach. I then had to make the decision to the start of 2001. And I really – I had a passion for footy still. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to be a senior coach, but I certainly had a passion for footy. So I decided to take a full-time role, and I thought, well, I'll bide my time. I'll enjoy it.

I'll help Rocket as much as I can, try and be as successful as I possibly can. And then midway through 2002, Rocket decided to give it away, and it was sort of more thrust upon me, to be honest. And then it was really the next 10 rounds that I really got a thirst for it, really enjoyed the interim role, and I sort of threw my hat in the ring. So, yeah, it sort of evolved like that, really. There was no conscious decision to do it other than the fact that when I took the job in the interim phase, I really enjoyed it.

I enjoyed the interaction with the players. I enjoyed the coaching side of it. And, yeah, I put my hat in the ring at the end of 2002. Well, that's jumping right in there. When you took over as coach of the Swans in 2002, the side experienced an almost overnight turnaround, making every finals from 2003 to 2008 and winning that historic grand final in 2005.

What did you do differently that really helped achieve this? Yeah, look, I could have said a really good platform. We played in the grand final in 96 and played in finals. But probably the main thing was empowering the players. I think that was the biggest difference. You know, I had a concept in my mind and I thought, why aren't the players more involved in decision making? Why is it not more of a collective agreement?

Why does it have to be coach versus players or coach telling players all the time? So I had this sort of philosophy in the back of my mind and I was able to implement it. And thankfully, the players really embraced it. We talked about it before. We went down to Coffs Harbour. We set our standards and our behaviours

and we wanted to stand for as a leadership group and a footy club and a team. Then we picked our leadership team. The players did that. And then out of that, we picked Stewie Maxfield. And it was really groundbreaking from an AFL point of view. you know the change that that sydney led in that in that field and i think that was the biggest thing the players really embraced it they said

yeah we want to drive this footy club we want to be part of the footy club we want to be part of the decision making and part of that is we want to own the responsibility of where this footy club goes you know and they did a great job they were able to do it and as you said we you know we went from being a mediocre team to a premiership team in a a really short space of time. Yeah, it's remarkable. Tell me, just again from the outside looking in,

it appears that many clubs and supporters still expect very quick results from coaches and coaches end up quite often, I believe, being the scapegoats for a club's performance. Why are coaches so dispensable and how do we educate organisations generally to appreciate that achieving sustainable success is actually a long-term endeavour?

Yeah, it's funny, you're right. I mean, I always say this, it's sort of like if I said to you, I don't know, let's say it's a car dealership and I said normally, yeah, normally you get a footy team when they're at the bottom. So if I said to you, yeah, buy my car dealership, it loses $20 million a year and, yeah, not only you have to do that, well, you're going to have to take the sales manager, the general manager, the head of, you know, service department, et cetera, et cetera. You'd go, hang on, I'm not buying that. What are you talking about? Yet we're asking, we're typically asking coaches to do exactly that, you know. But it's, and the point I'm making is it's a whole of club. If you think it's just about changing a coach, well, you're kidding yourself.

Yeah, it's about the chairman. It's about the CEO. It's about the footy manager. It's about the recruiting manager, assistant coaches. So it's about getting the key influences right. You know, it's not as simple as – if you think it's as simple as changing a club, and to your point, it's exactly the same in business. You know, you've got to get all your key stakeholders right, your key influencers right, your role model leaders. You know, and we did that at Sydney.

Andrew Ireland was fantastic. Myles Barron-Hay, Cole Seery, our recruiting team, our assistant coaches, and then that's what I tried to do at Melbourne. You know, I would never have taken the Melbourne job had Peter Jackson said you have to take all the people, you know, at the footy club. I brought in my own assistant coaches I knew David Misson, he was already there, he was my fitness coach at Sydney, had enormous amount of trust in him, knew Todd Viney

from playing with him state footy against him and it's a whole of club thing so yeah it's just easy to your point it's easy to put a coach in without surrounding with his own people or people that he trusts and then we ask him to do the job and then

the easier thing is just to get rid of him and put someone else in you know there's a lot of people that don't really know what they're doing you know that are running footy clubs um around and and you know corporations to be honest so um get the right people and get really good people yeah success is going to follow but it's a process you know again same as business you're not going to turn around that 20 million dollar loss in one year you're going to build it up over time but yeah the difference is our results on the monday's paper every Monday morning and there's a ladder and it's an emotional business and people get emotional

and the easiest thing is to sack your coach. Yeah, yep, spot on. We've been talking quite a bit about sustainable success. How do you define it and how do you believe you achieve it? I think it's defined by your values and what you stand for as either an individual or certainly as a footy club. You know, I think if you look at the Sydney Swans as what we started with John Longmore,

I was an assistant coach back in 2002, end of 2002. Yeah, it's a values-based footy club. You know, I talk about behavioural-based footy clubs or talent-based footy clubs. It's the same in corporation. You know, it's the same success is built around behaviours, is built around what our actions are. So when we come into an organisation, we see it.

We see people turning up to meetings on time. We see them putting their cameras on in Zoom or whatever it is when you've got a meeting. We see them returning people's phone calls. We see them saying hello and goodbye and socialising together and all that sort of stuff. That's what sustained success is built on. It's a process and it's monotonous and it's boring,

but it leads to sustained success. Yeah, talent-based teams just rely on the best product, the best talent, best economy. Yeah, when things are going well, they're flying. When things aren't going well, yeah, they're struggling because it's all about the individual. it's not about the team and that's one of the biggest tests you know under pressure do you do what's best for yourself or do you do what's best for the your team I mean there's never been a

greater example at the moment in Australian politics and then that example you know and it's the same in business same in footy under pressure do you do what's best for yourself or do you do what's best for your team and great teams always do what's best for their team And great leaders always do what's best for their team. Yeah, that's extremely well said there, mate. Mate, I'd love to just drill in a little bit into a couple of the lowlights and the highlights of your time as a coach. And I'm going to focus on what I consider the pretty pivotal year,

and that's 2005. And I'd say that for a couple of reasons, Paul, because starting with a lowlight in the lead up to the 2005 grand final win, and the CEO of the AFL publicly criticised you and the Swans by saying that your style of play was disgusting and ugly, I think, with the words, and that you'd never win a premiership playing that sort of unattractive style of footy.

How did that make you feel, and how did you and the players respond to that? Yeah, it was pretty bizarre. So, again, just for recapping, I think it was about round five or six, ironically, we played the Eagles, and we were out in West Australia, and on the radio he said something about the Swans' ugly footy

and they'll never win a premiership playing like that. You know, for those overseas people, to me, the analogy I use is it'd be like to see Coca-Cola saying, look, don't drink Coca-Cola in New South Wales, drink Pepsi. You know, because we were the only team in New South Wales and we were representing the whole of the AFL. There was only one team and that was the Sydney Swans. So it was just probably firstly I thought it was a really bizarre

thing to say. Secondly, I thought there was a lack of leadership from the commission, which is sort of, if you want a better term, it's the board of the AFL that didn't come out and sort of say, hang on, that's not the way we want our CEO to operate, you know, that's just not on sort of thing. And thirdly, it probably was more of an external issue, but we did use it to galvanise the players and, you know,

we felt as a club we were sort of abandoned a little bit by the AFL and we felt as the flagship club and the club that was sort of trying and develop the game in New South Wales. We deserve better than that. But ultimately, yeah, we just need to play better footy. We needed to, you know, look after our own backyard and we needed to play better than what we were. And it turned out we did

and it turned out things worked pretty well for us. It might have been a good catalyst to galvanise, as you say, the players against sort of a common foe, if you like, that gave them that extra motivation to really lift. Yeah, no, look, it was strange, you know, and I think we were a close coaching group and player group and I certainly think it helped our cause rather than hindered the cause, to be honest.

Yeah, now, on that very same year, mate, which was a very historic year, the 2005 season was also a big one for our family, Paul, because our great-grandfather, Ron Burrows, played for South Melbourne in the late 1920s and he was actually the vice-president of the club when they won the flag in 1933. And my good father, the original Bushy Senior,

God bless him. He was an absolute diehard Swan supporter and he waited all of his life to see another premiership, mate. But unfortunately, he passed away just five months before you won the flag. But my brother Ian, who went absolutely nuts on the footy show the week before the grand final when he was interviewed by Eddie, was convinced that the freaky goal that Nick Davis kicked in the dying seconds of the semi-final to win the game

was actually the spirit of my good father. Now, how big a moment was winning that game to you and the club, given it was the first final in 72 years with you as a coach? How did you feel and what did you learn from that experience? Yeah, look, it's still pretty emotional because, to your point, there's so many stories like your story. And, again, putting the context for overseas, yes, the build-up, you know, over the previous three, four, five years when we'd started to become

more successful was, you know, the Swans haven't won a premiership for 68 years, 69 years, 70 years, 71, 72. So, yeah, there was a lot of talk around going into that game. The Swans haven't won a premiership for 72 years. It was the longest premiership drought in our competition in AFL. So I think we were aware of it. There's no question. But we sort of really stuck to the process.

We spoke about what we wanted to do. It probably wasn't until we won the game that I realised the enormity of what we'd achieved. I remember walking through the grandstand. In those days, the coach's box was in the grandstand. You walked through the grandstand. I remember looking at all the swans' faces, the fans. I got on the ground and past players, past president,

past people that had put money in the club. You know, Paul Kelly gave me the cup. And then we went to the function that night. The emotion of so many people, the stories that you've been telling me. The next day we went to the Lakeside Oval and it was absolutely packed with all the South Melbourne people there and, you know, the people had waited so long for the grand final. We then went back to Sydney and we did a parade through Sydney,

which is incredible. As I said, you know, AFL football, we were the only team in town. It was more a rugby league, rugby union town. But it was probably even to this day, mate, like even now, 18 years, you know, what is it, 16 years later, you know, I still hear stories about that and that's probably the most emotional thing. And the number of emails and messages I got afterwards, like thanking me, you know, I went to the footy with my dad and my mum and, you know,

they were 82 years of age and they've since passed away and it was the greatest day of my life. It's still, yeah, I think, you know, what football does to people and what it means to people and that really put it in perspective of how big it was. And also, as I said before, how big it was and it wasn't created by me or Brett Kirk or Barry Hall. It was created by, you know, Barry Round and Bobby Skilton

and the people you've mentioned, you know, going back years and years and years of history. There's so much hard work went into that. The pioneers that left South Melbourne to go to Sydney in, you know, 81 or 82 when it was. Yeah, so there's a lot, a lot of people that were affected in a real positive way. So, yeah, still to this day it's something I'm really proud

of the whole footy club and everyone associated with that day. Yeah, it was an amazing day, mate. And I'd still get emotional every time I look at the replay of that Nick Davis goal. I'd tear up, actually. That's how engaging the whole exercise was and what it meant to us as a family. So I take my hat off to you and commend you for the work you did

to bring all that together, mate. But changing tack a little bit, accountability is something that's unfortunately very sadly missed in a lot of organisations around the country. How important do you believe personal and collective accountability is to success and how do you instil it? Yeah, I think it's dramatically lacking. Let's be really honest, you're right. It's dramatically lacking in this landscape at the moment. And just to give people perspective on that, a footy club is a really accountable place. It's a safe place, but it's a really accountable place.

You know, we set up our values, we set up our behaviours, we set up our KPIs, our technical KPIs, and we constantly reward and challenge. It's the whole environment at the Sydney Swans, the whole environment I set up at the Melbourne Footy Club, the whole environment that David Noble's trying to set up at the North Melbourne Football Club now. it's all around accountability you know it's all around personal responsibility and probably the biggest thing we're being let down in Australia at the moment is just a lack of accountability for our politicians you know it's really really sad but I guess it's been building for many many years if you're not used to an accountable model and you've lived in an unaccountable system for so long it's hard to change but personal accountability firstly and then team club or corporate accountability and if you can get that right you know it's incredibly rewarding

incredibly powerful um yeah it's challenging and can be frustrating at times and having honest real which we call it real talk you know just have real talk conversations over and over and over again but to be perfectly frank if you want to be a high performing team a high performing individual a high performing state country you know corporation whatever it is you know you have to have an enormous level of personal accountability and team accountability yeah 100% agree but just shifting gears a little bit I sort of want to sort of focus on the health component a little bit because you've often said that as a leader your personal health determines the health of the organization and under the immense all-consuming pressure of being an AFL coach how did you keep

yourself healthy during those years and and how do you continue to keep yourself healthy now Yeah, yeah. I think, I mean, I learned that obviously I was in a healthy environment. So in terms of running and lifting weights and diet and stuff like that, I mean, so movement's always been a really big part of my life and just getting into consistent habits. But I think the meditation, I learned to meditate with Tammy, my wife, who's a meditation teacher, 25 years ago.

So that's sort of the brain part of it as well. So that's that mindfulness meditation, and we brought that into the Sydney Swans back in 2003. So I think for me it's just about habits. And when I was coaching, I think we – one of the terms I don't like is work-life balance. I call it life balance. I don't leave home and go to the Melbourne Footy Club

when I was coaching Melbourne in the last three years and not have a wife and kids. And I don't leave the Melbourne Footy Club and come home and not have a job. you know so so what i talk about is life balance so it's actually about those moments within your life yeah so we've finished training at melbourne footy club and i'd go for a run around the tan you know just a long way back to the office you know an extra 4k but it was a long way back to the office and i'd get to the office have a shower yeah so whatever you can do within

my message is whatever you can do within your life just do it because as a leader in particular people want you to turn up healthy they want you to turn up really well balanced because you're there to lead them and if you don't then you're going to get frustrated they'll get frustrated so again it comes back to personal accountability it's funny the analogy that i use is you know when your little red light goes off in your car with the oil light you can't get it to the service department quick enough yeah but but something happens in our own lives we just don't look after ourselves anywhere near the way we should. And if we start to do that, a lot of the problems that we do have in the world today are going to suddenly be gone, but we're going about it

completely the wrong way. Yeah, 100% agree. Mate, you've often been called the Zen master of football and you always come across as calm, confident and collected as well as patient and persistent. Where is that sort of self-belief and quiet self-confidence stem from and how important is Tammy in that regard. Yeah, look, we've done everything as a family. I think that's really important. Again, talking about that work-life balance, and I hear this a lot, you know,

I remember talking to Tammy and the kids. The kids were only little when I took the Sydney job, and, you know, Dad, we'll never see you, blah, blah, blah. But we had a discussion as a family. Ironically, when I gave it away at Sydney, the boys were like, no, Dad, please don't give it away. We love it, you know, give it away. Yeah, so it's actually quite interesting.

But, yeah, as I said, Tammy's a meditation teacher. She does some coaching, some live coaching as well to the CEOs, executives. She worked with me at Sydney with some of the players, you know, some of our real high performers, Brett Kirk, Adam Goodes, Mickey O, Craig Bolton, et cetera, et cetera, and then came into the Melbourne Football Club. We did a lot of meditation, a lot of visualization at the Melbourne Footy Club, and she really helped transform that organization as well. And, yeah, just, you know, we get on really well and we have a great relationship

and we do everything, you know, together and we discuss everything. So, you know, when you've got a really good balanced lifestyle and a good support network at home, it makes a world of difference. Yeah, no doubt, mate. I'm exactly the same. I'm blessed with my good wife and we're the yin and yang. We were just a great balance to each other and, you know, there's just no way I'd be enjoying the life we do

if it hadn't been for that partnership. Mate, you've sort of become a bit of a Mr Fix-It In the AFL, following your success at the Swans, you've got that growing reputation as a change catalyst and a culture-building king, and you've really done some fantastic foundational rebuilding work with Melbourne and now, I assume, at North Melbourne. What's the essence of your success in taking underperforming teams

and transforming them to achieve great things? I know you've touched on quite a few of them already, but if you summarise that for us? Yeah, absolutely. I sort of got asked that question the other day and probably tried to put it into perspective. I think when I arrived at Sydney, you're sort of flying by the seat of your pants a bit.

You're sort of first coach and you go, well, I think this is going to work and you sort of have a philosophy and a game plan and, as I said, empowerment of the players and you're sort of hoping more than anything and, you know, I got through the premiership in 2005 and had a lot of success at Sydney with great people. So by the time I left that job, I no longer guess, you know, and I don't say this, you know, hopefully not in an arrogant way. I know what success looks like.

And I think once you've done it and once you fully understand it, and I know it's hard and I know it's not just about the coach. And I think the thing that I learned in eight and a half years at Sydney with great mentors, Andrew Ireland, Johnny Longmore as assistant coach, Rossi Lyon, Johnny Blakey, you know, I could go through multiple, multiple names. And so I think having done what I did at Sydney, I really know what success looks like now.

And I couldn't have done the Melbourne job, no chance, because I've done the Melbourne job had I not coached Sydney. But going to Melbourne, having the confidence, understanding the pillars you have to put in place, understanding the process you have to put in place, and I think that allowed me to take the role. And Benny Buckley is a good friend of mine who's the chairman of the North Melbourne Football Club.

So I think, you know, the confidence to be able to do that, working with good people, I think they have confidence in me. But, yeah, look, it's experience, I guess, and it's making mistakes when you're a coach and learning from those mistakes but having a full understanding of the industry, a full understanding of what success looked like. I think that's why, you know, I'm able to go into not only footy clubs

but into organisations and to see them and see what's working really, really well and see what they can do better. just sort of on an allied subject there sustaining success long term in a very hyper competitive environment like afl seems to be a challenge and you know if you look at richmond at the moment they've won three out of four flags but they're really starting to to struggle uh why do you think that is and and what do they need to do to reinvigorate their performance you believe Yeah, I think, you know, there's obviously an age component

and a physical component we've touched on to AFL football. So there's sort of a natural progression from a top team. I guess the challenge is probably to never become a bottom team. Yeah, and I think that's Richmond's challenge, and I don't think they will be. I certainly haven't written them off for this year, but they've just got to physically reignite, you know, stick to their behaviour,

Stick to what makes them good. You know, understand what makes them good. And, again, it's monotonous, but just keep going back to that over and over and over again. And successful organisations do that. They go back to their values. They go back to their behaviours. And then they start to, you know, induct new people based around them.

They bring people in that have got similar values and similar standards. You know, I'm sure Richmond will do that. So it really is, to me, again, getting back to a behavioural-based team or a talent-based team. And, you know, getting back to the Swans again, no one thought the Swans was going to be like they were this year. But they get back to their behaviours.

They get back to Joey Kennedy as a great leader and Luke Parker and Dane Rampey. And the young players jump on board and they see it, they emulate it, they do it. You know, Trent Cotchen, great leader, great person. You know, he'll know what to do and he'll be telling those players what to do. You know, so I'm confident Richmond, you know,

will they win the Premiership this year? No, very unlikely. but I can't see them botting them out as an organisation. I can see them coming back relatively quickly. Yeah, awesome. Mate, in your current business, Performance by Design, which parallels our own focus on Living by Design, you've no doubt observed that leadership in all areas

has gone through a massive evolution over the last few decades from that sort of top-down, command-and-control style dictatorship to a bottom-up, caring, circle-of-safety, democracy style of approach. why do you think this is the case and what further changes in leadership style need to evolve do you think to handle the current ongoing radical uncertainty that the world is currently experiencing yeah i think the the top down just wasn't working wasn't it we've got a new generation of people coming in that that really want to know that they're not as focused necessarily on money they

want to know what their purpose is what why does this company exist you know why am i here which i think is a great thing so then it forced really leaders to sort of start to think around their role you know so you talked about it really well you articulated well it's it's now a empowerment democratic and i think it's got to continue that way and leaders that that are still top down and control and command they're going to get phased out over time and we see it all the time because what it creates it creates a stifled stuffy you know uh low performing environment because people don't feel safe they don't want to put up their ideas they don't want to reward people they don't want to challenge people yeah so it becomes and and what we know based on resource research is

in a low performing team the first people to leave are your best team members because they have they have the most self-worth and they're not going to sit there and put up with the garbage from the CEO or the coach or the captain or the leader or whatever they're going to say well my self-worth is far too great to be at this organisation and they tend to leave. So your culture gets further eroded the more those good people that leave. Alternatively, I talk about this as well, culture travels. You and I know that. Culture travels.

You know, people go, jeez, I'd love to work with that organisation. I actually don't really know but everyone seemed to be enjoying it. I talked to someone at a barbecue the other night and they said this is what they do at that organisation. So good culture travels and poor culture travels. Good culture, people start ringing you. Can I come and work for you? Yeah, I don't know what you're doing, but it seems like it's really, really good.

So, you know, this notion of empowerment, belonging, people want to come to work now to belong. They want to be part of building something and they want to be building it together, not having someone else build it for them, which is that old command control way of doing things. Yeah, I love that, mate. I sort of want to pivot now into a subject that's close to both of our hearts, and that's the subject of men's mental health and wellbeing. To use a reasonably current example, one of your former Swan player prodigies, Rhys Shaw, struggled during his turbulent time coaching North Melbourne, and there were a lot of concerns around his mental health. Now, I know that men's health and wellness is a key focus for you and your family with the Roo's Men's Wellness and Leadership Club and your nurture group work. What are the challenges that you, do you think that men face in a world where, to some degree, the PC pendulum appears to have swung a bit too far and men seem to be suffering a bit of an identity struggle

with how to define what actually being a modern man is. And there's this struggle between the vulnerability on this spectrum from the sort of the macho to the emotive. What can men do about overcoming some of these challenges, do you think? Yeah, I think you mentioned the stereotype, mate. I think you're really right. I mean, you and I are similar age, 58, 60. And if you look at our fathers, and I'll speak to mine,

really my dad was a fantastic guy, you know, really, really good guy. But we didn't talk a lot about feelings, you know. So we, you know, he came to the footy matches all the time, was incredibly supportive. We played tennis, you know, but he wasn't really a speaking man around. So what we've got to do is just change the notion of what a man is. And, you know, my son's involved in a business called Momentum Lifestyle and they're doing just that.

And there's a lot of good organisations out there. So what is a man? Because I think you're right. I think we're a little bit betwixt and between at the moment, you know, but we've got to redefine what a man is, you know. A man can be open, you know, a man can talk. Instead of talking to his mates of how are you and how's the footy, it's about having the conversation, you know, Bushy, how are you, mate?

I really noticed you were down yesterday, you know, is everything okay? And you being, you know, comfortable enough with me to say, yeah, look, Ruzan, thanks for asking. Yeah, I am struggling, you know. Yeah, this happened on the weekend and, you know, oh, mate, look, can I – I think those conversations have started to happen, aren't they? I think that's the good thing. So we've just got to keep that moving forward.

And I say this all the time, and I don't say this with any disrespect to my dad, you know, I'm hoping I'm a better man and father and husband than my father was. And I hope that Dylan and Tyler are a better husband, father and man than I am. You know, that's my big hope for them because we've got to keep pushing this notion forward of what that looks like and we're going to start to sort of redefine those stereotypes of when you and I were young

and we were looking at our dads and they couldn't, you know, couldn't cry and had to go to work and be stoic and, you know, hide everything and all those sorts. And thankfully, that's all changing. We've got to keep that conversation going, don't we? Yeah, absolutely, mate. Mate, just jumping very quickly into the future before I segue into the, what I call the ambush bushfire lightning round. Yeah.

Like me, you now appear to be shifting your sights from success to significance in your life as we both enter the final quarter of our lives, mate. Paint us a picture of your ideal lifestyle and world moving forward in terms of what you're doing and where you're doing it and how does your various business interests of Performance by Design, the Nurture Group and the Men's Wellness and Leadership Club fit into that? Yeah, it's a good point, isn't it? Like when you get to our age, you start to think a little bit differently

around what you're doing. And I guess probably my philosophy now is I've been really fortunate to gain an enormous amount of information, you know, through the experience I've had, and that's through, you know, through my upbringing, through being at Fitzroy Footy Club, through working, you know, up until I was full-time in 95 with the Sydney Swans, through my coaching, through the great mentors I've had, through what I've seen

in life you know so probably main thing is transferring that that sort of 58 years of life and putting an old head on young shoulders i guess you know that's probably what i'm trying to do now is is taking all that experience and helping as many people as i possibly can you know through performance by design through the nurture group um retreats that are obviously on hold at the moment through the ruse men's wellness and leadership club which again is probably something and haven't been able to do for a while. But, yeah, just taking that experience and hopefully imparting as much of that knowledge as I can

on as many people as I possibly can, and that's probably my goal for the next – I'm actually going to get to 100 because I want a letter from the Queen. I've got another 42 years to go, so, you know. I'm right there with you, mate. I'm right there with you. My great-grandmother, she's 103, mate, and I'm going to outdo her. So, look out.

That's awesome, yeah. Yeah, that's probably my goals at the moment is to, yeah, to really be as involved as I possibly can and help as many people as I possibly can. Yeah, awesome, mate. Jumping straight into the ambush round then, which are just the quick questions that the listeners always want to glean your words of wisdom on, what's your favourite quote and why?

Probably, I read this cartoon once and it was a grandkid going up to his granddad and he said granddad i don't really know what i want to be when i grow up and granddad said just be a good person there's plenty of vacancies and and i reckon that's as good a quote as i reckon i've ever heard particularly in in where we're at as a as a nation and as a world at the moment yeah i haven't heard one that before mate and um i'm gonna use that now. Thanks for that. It's a good one. Mate, on the literally front,

apart from your books, and here it is, it's a great read, what's a top book that you'd recommend people have a read of and why? I like The Way of the Peaceful Warrior by Dan Millman. It's a really good book. A mate of mine, Brett Stevens, recommended

it to me about 20 years ago and yeah, I'd recommend that really highly to anyone listening. The Way of the Peaceful Warrior by Dan element yeah i haven't read it mate so that's going straight on the kindle list as soon as i get off the call here today yeah um that's a rip-out just in terms of advice generally what's the worst and the best piece of advice that you've ever received i really remember this mickey conlan i don't know why it sticks with me so much i was captain i got named captain

the fitzroy footy club in my first year and um i wasn't playing that well i remember we'd finished training and he said mate are you okay I said oh look I'm a bit disappointed I'm not playing that well and he said to me he said look I've played more bad games than I've played good games I didn't agree with him on that but he said I've never lost faith in my ability you know and he said to me look you're a great player just always have confidence in what you can do and I really remember that and it sort of resonated I think we can get down on ourselves a lot yeah and particularly at the moment, always have confidence in yourself and your strengths and understand what you're really good at

and that really stood out for me. What's the worst piece of advice? Probably, mate, you would have lived through it. I remember my accountant, probably in your field too, late 80s when the interest rates went from 13% to 18%. I remember I got this compound, what do they call it? It was an interest where you'd actually never really pay anything back. So your loan would go from like, I bought this apartment.

Line of credit, yep. Yeah, I bought this apartment for $120,000 and everyone thought, yeah, property was going to go fantastically well. And so I got talked into making this loan. So by the time I sold the property, my loan was $180,000 and the property was worth $120,000 because the interest rates went up. So that was probably the worst advice I ever got, I reckon. That's a good one, mate.

Now, back to habits for a minute, just to close this out. What's a critical personal habit, and I like to refer to them as happy habits or rewarding rituals or daily disciplines that you believe have contributed most to your success? um the habit that contributed most certainly recently has been meditation but i only started meditating uh probably towards the end of my playing career so that's probably at the moment i meditate every morning so that'd be the current one um i think for me i was really lucky when i say lucky i actually trained a lot by myself and i reckon that gave me the personal discipline and to just do it, just do things.

When the little man on the shoulder says, don't do it, I think when I was actually training by myself because I went overseas and lived in America in quite a few off seasons and I had to do it myself, I think that just taught me when the little man says, don't do it, you've just got to do it. So they're probably the two tips that have helped me the most. Yeah, it's again that personal accountability coming out of the equation, mate, which is such a rare exercise. It's who we are when people aren't watching the true character comes out, isn't it? Yeah, 100%.

Mate, final question then to wrap all this together. If I gave you a microphone that spoke to every single one of the 7.7 billion people that are currently alive in the world and I gave you a minute to talk, what would you say? I think you've just touched on it then when you asked me before we came on. It really was personal accountability. Let's stop blaming everyone else. And the world has really become divide and conquer. Australia has become divide and conquer. I was in America for a long period of time, you know, with Donald Trump and whether you like him or not.

I mean, his platform was divide and conquer. Yeah, it's really easy for us to blame everyone else. Yeah, what I would say to those 7.8 billion people is take, firstly, personal responsibility for what you can control. What is in your life that you can control? That would be the first thing. And secondly, be kind. Reach out to people. This has been disgraceful, the divide and conquer in Australian politics on COVID.

There's this notion that we're all in together couldn't be further from the truth. and it's been driven from politicians. We're not in this together. We have to come back and we have to be kinder to each other and we have to have more empathy for each other. Some of the things I've heard, particularly people that are overseas, oh, they should have got on a plane. Hang on, someone's working overseas or married to someone overseas.

I mean, some of the stuff I'm hearing now, and so it would be take personal responsibility and show more kindness to each other. Yeah, very well said, mate. They're things that we all know, but for whatever reason, we allow situations to get in the road of that, and you make a very good point. Unfortunately, COVID has driven a lot of separation and isolation, and again, unfortunately, the algorithms on social media platforms help reinforce that being the reality.

So I think we've certainly got some work to do around that, mate. But you've been very generous with your time today. I know that Performance by Design and the work that you're doing with Tammy and the rest of the family with the Nurture Group and the Men's Wellness and Leadership Club are making a real difference in the world, mate, and really appreciate you coming on and sharing your words of wisdom today. Thanks for pushing that.

It was a great conversation. Thanks very much, and well done on what you were doing too, mate. Thank you. Thanks, mate. Talk soon. Get a summary of all this investment gold in the show notes. just email me on hello at khgroup.com.au. That's H-E-L-L-O at khgroup.com.au.

Or check us out at www.bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. I look forward to joining you next week for another episode of the Get Invested podcast. So thanks for listening. And as always, dream as if you live forever and live as if you die tomorrow. Thanks for watching!