Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: How Micki McNie combines her creative passions with business

Episode Date: December 2, 2018

Most people want to know how to combine business and career success with the passions of their heart, but many can’t find a way to make it happen. Micki McNie is one who has achieved this balance, and shares her insights in this episode. Micki has broad experience in small business, as the founder of multiple companies including the 33 Zen Lane real estate brokerage and her script coverage service, Script Karma.  As a serial entrepreneur, Micki has a passion for using her experience to mentor small business owners and creative entrepreneurs, giving them a head start on their careers. As a person with business skills in systems, organisation, networking and real estate, Micki has also found a way to engage her passion for the film industry and other creative endeavours. But how? We talk about this, and much more, on this insightful episode of Get Invested. Micki's book recommendations The Practical Dreamer's Handbook by Paul Edwards Get Invested is the podcast dedicated to time poor professionals who want to work less and live more. Join Bushy Martin, one of Australia’s top 10 property specialists, as he and his influential guests share know-how on the ways investing in property can unlock the life you always dreamed about and secure your financial future. Remember to subscribe on your favourite podcast player, and if you're enjoying the show please leave us a review. Find out more about Get Invested here https://bushymartin.com.au/get-invested-podcast/  Want to connect with Bushy? Get in touch here https://bushymartin.com.au/contact/  This show is produced by Apiro Media - http://apiropodcasts.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Someday, I'd like to dot, dot, dot, you know, and realizing how many things I had said that about and just starting to ask myself, well, when exactly, you know, miss, you're now almost 47, you know, when exactly is someday? Welcome to the Get Invested Podcast, where we share great conversations with experts from all walks of life to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills, and their money. and the benefits that this has created. You see, the truth is that everyone invests.

Every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy, and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, and sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you to start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen, not let it happen.

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Welcome Freedom Fighters How often do you find yourself saying Someday I'll do this Or someday I'll do that But someday just never seems to come Do you find yourself going through the motions Smiling on the outside for all the world to see But secretly warring with yourself on the inside

Questioning yourself on whether you're really happy Why you continue to go through the motions Constantly criticising yourself for not doing enough, not being enough or not achieving enough And concerned that time is running out Do you find yourself constantly doing what you should do rather than what you really want to do? Are you allowing your fear to live a compromise where you accept the safe, well-worn, expected path Rather than go against the flow and create your own track on the road less travelled It's the classic battle between the logic in your head and the passion in your heart.

But how do you resolve it? Well, you'll be pleased to hear you're not alone. Most of us are continuously fighting this internal battle, and it's a subject that today's guest, Mickey McNee, and I dive deep into. Mickey McNee is a self-professed serial entrepreneur and digital nomad who combines her left-brain creative passions for travel, music, script reading, coaching and course writing with her right-brain real estate and property interests. So where is she at on this journey?

What has she learned and what can you take from this to help you on your movements going forward? Find out on this great chat with Mickey McNee. Hi Freedom Fighters, welcome back. In today's episode I'm connecting with yet another global gypsy and I've been lucky enough to be referred through to today's guest by Kevin Graham who you would have had to listen to a few episodes ago and what really interests me about Mickey McNee is that she invests in a way that allows her to combine all of her passions

and they are quite diverse, so really keen to dig into that. Welcome aboard, Mickey McNee. Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Now, for those that are listening in, where am I talking to you today? Because you tend to be all over the globe. I do, and I just flew in from Bangkok via Austin, Texas, and I am now at my parents' house in Southern California. Love it, love it.

Well, we'll dig into that travel passion as part of this as well. Mickey, but for those of the audience who don't know who you are, can you just give us a quick rundown on what you do and where you're heading and most importantly, why you do what you do? Yeah, absolutely. And of course, the answers to all those questions are complicated, but give you the overview. I'm coming off about a 10-year career in real estate where I was based in Colorado and I had a an agency a team of eight agents and then was a real estate investor which I still am a real estate investor and then started running my company remotely and in the past couple of years I've just been

exploring a lot of things which have brought me back to my love of teaching so I've been building some online courses focused around real estate and other areas and then I'm now really getting interested in um audio drama podcasting and screenwriting kind of back to my creative roots yeah awesome well that there's quite diverse interest in all of that and there's already with what you just talked about there's a thousand questions that i'd i'd love to ask but just to give us some context and give us a bit of a feel for what your journey has been today and to understand your motivations, what's been the inspiration and thought process behind what you've done

and where that's taken you, can you sort of take us back a fair way and just talk to us about – and probably the best place to start is, and I know this is going back some distance, but you leave school. What do you decide to do? Why? and talk us through blow-by-blow the stories on the journey to take you to where you are today. Yeah, I can do that.

And leaving school is a good place to start. I did my degree in theatre and I remember announcing to my father that I was going to move to New York and try to make it big and I was prepared for him to fight me tooth and nail on that sending his daughter off to the big city however he didn't which was great but he he probably knew with me he didn't have to worry about because you know I'll say oh I'm gonna do this and then five minutes later I've got another shiny idea in front of me and so what ended up happening was I found a study abroad program that I could do as a recent graduate.

And so I actually moved to New Zealand. Did you really? I did. So you did a K-Way bloodbath. That's good to hear. Yeah. I call it my home away from home. I haven't been there in a while, but I do have my residency there now,

and I've lived there twice for a total of about six years. Yeah. And so I just went down there just to do something different, and I ended up working for a temp agency, which is great, Cause I got to do all sorts of things from packing lottery tickets to, uh, I actually typed letters that the prime minister signed, um, when I worked at the ministry of justice. So, yeah, so I kind of, that was, you know, my travel bug coming in, I think. Um, and I thought I would make a bit of a life down there, but you know, I was, I was

still quite young. I mean, just a few years out of school and got into a relationship that then ended and so I was heartbroken and thought, I'm just going to leave. Yeah. I just want to backtrack a little bit there. Yeah. The passion for theatre, where did that come from?

And because I'm interested. Sure. Early on was very similar. I was very creative both in terms of art and drama and whatnot, and I just loved that side of it. But then I – maybe a bit like you had a dad who – get a real job, son. Right, yes. You can do that after hours, but you're never going to do anything

out of that stuff, so get a grip. What about yourself? Tell me about where that sort of passion for the theatre side came from. Yeah, you know, it goes back to my junior high teacher, And I don't know what that translates to in Australian education, but, you know, maybe age 11 or 12. I had one of my favorite teachers who I was in the younger level. There were two ages in the class and I was the younger. But we had drama class and we had little groups.

And we, you know, they're sort of like a de facto leader in each group. And somehow, I was this shy little introverted girl who just came out of her shell when put on stage. And this was my first chance where he had me, you know, teaching kids, not teaching kids, but sort of managing kids older than me and sort of coming up with the ideas of what we're going to do. and I really loved encouraging people who also were afraid to sort of speak up and share their voice and so I just kind of thrived in there and I just loved it and I held on to that right through school and was just adamant that when I went to university, that was what I was going to study. Yeah, okay, okay.

And it sort of, so the path obviously changed. You went to New Zealand and then obviously a bit bitten from the relationship side came back to the States. where to from there what was that thinking and what was the next step and I came back and you'll you'll see I'm you know I touched back to this sort of creative thing which is why I'm glad I'm coming it around to it now because I think a lot of I think part of running away to New Zealand was also sort of just you know that like you were saying you know everyone it's telling you you'll never make a living if you go into the arts and it's so competitive and it's silly to try and so

I think I might have self-sabotaged a little bit and just said yeah I'm not going to do that now I'm going to go somewhere else so when I came back I did actually I moved into a friend's apartment in Hollywood and I started applying for jobs um at the big production companies thinking well I'll get my foot in the door as a secretary and then you know something magical will happen from there okay um but if as anyone else out there who's ever tried to apply for a job in Hollywood it's it's it's just an exorcism futility you apply and you apply and you apply you never hear anything here's a good thing yeah you get very good at rejection which is one of major challenges i reckon yeah um so i did that for a minute and then i i just i financially i

was in dire straits i was i paid my rent with a credit card check one month and i thought this is not a good idea i better go and and get a proper job um okay and where did that proper job lead you so that led me it kind of fed into the travel side it led me to get into the hospitality industry where i stayed for a number of years so i um my first job was a contiki tour guide believe it or not that would have been an absolute ball i'm guessing i yeah i did um i did a trip from LA to New York uh which was like a month long and of course going west to east it was all Aussies so made lots of friends from your part of the world well the Contiki's over here are just a month-long uh party basically so yeah what was it like being the tour guide you're probably

trying to you know just disheveled mob on the train are you it's quite fun actually uh because you know everybody's really good natured they just want to have a good time and that was sort of my job was to keep people uh stay as safe as I possibly could and um and just you know help share my country with them so which coming to the states you know is fairly I mean Australia's a big country too there's a lot to see so yeah um I enjoyed it I got to use my my teaching uh skills you know just learning about the history and teaching people and then um I found a perverse pleasure in uh getting up with the microphone at 7 a.m when everyone else was hung over and dragging themselves onto the bus and cheerily wishing them a good morning and just rubbing it

in just pretty much yeah love it love it awesome and you'd stayed with that for a while mickey yeah i did that for a couple seasons um it takes its toll you know you don't really get to have a social life um since you're always on the road and um so i eventually decided to to kind of try and do a little more similar thing i started working at hotels and national parks um where i was also helping people enjoy their vacations and you know meeting really interesting people but i was able to live in in one spot and usually in very beautiful uh places you know up in the woods and up the mountains yeah yeah okay so uh continuing down that path there was a further change at some point i'm hearing yeah i know i feel like we're just beandering on this

that's all good that's it really good i know i put together my full resume once and i think there were 45 jobs on it at that point so it's a good thing i keep saying to people that are leaving school. We've got someone, a graduate that's working with us at the moment and I just say to him, get as much experience in many places with as many things as you possibly can. Oh, good. So I did it right.

Yeah, I reckon you did because then you actually work out what you do want to do because most of the time you don't know yourself at that point in time and it takes a few years to realise, well, this is actually who I am and this is what I do enjoy, this is what I don't. Now I need to go and find that. Yeah, yeah, that is right. So where did that take you to?

Yeah, so casting my mind back, I'm trying to keep everything straight. So I did that for a few years, and I lived in some great places like Alaska and the Caribbean. Nice. And then I wound up in Colorado where I met my husband, former husband now, but at the time. Sure. Um, and so for a few years, um, a lot of what I was doing was just sort of finding work. Um, cause he, he had an, uh, he got a, uh, had a PhD in applied mathematics and he was kind of taking jobs here and there as he figured out what his career path was.

And I was just sort of along for the ride. So I just, yeah. Um, but when we split up, um, after another stint of living in New Zealand, funnily enough, together or yeah yeah so you went there yeah we went together yeah we went together he heard me talk about it and rave about it so much and then he got a job offer um and so we went down there for about three years um and that was and that was a blast and that and actually that was where i dipped my toe back into um theater because i worked for a theater at the auckland university And then I started doing some crew work for a company that sort of staffed productions around town.

My biggest regret is that they were filming, you know, this is all when The Lord of the Rings was all coming out. And I thought, I should just go down and knock on Peter Jackson's door, you know, and ask for a job. Why not? I know. And I didn't do it. I didn't do it. No? No.

No. And I'm very sad about that to this day because everybody and their brother worked on Lord of the Rings. Yeah, because that was, what, down towards Queenstown? Is that where? Well, he was based in Wellington. Okay. That's where the work center is and stuff.

But, you know, of course, none of us had any idea what it was going to turn into. Of course. It was going to be this amazing, yeah. Yeah. So hindsight, that one. Hey, plenty of time. Yeah, okay, that's cool. So time in New Zealand and back there for number two.

Where to from there? Yeah, so then came back to Colorado and that is, you know, unfortunately when we ended up splitting up and so I found myself in my mid-30s suddenly in charge of my own life again and having to support myself again, which, you know, I had always been confident about doing, but, um, I, I was applying for jobs and I just had this realization, like I'm applying for the same jobs I would have applied for out of university. And I'm being offered pay that is the same or less, um, you know, and it's 15 years later,

10 years later okay and that yeah and that kind of threw me for a loop I really um it worried me you know I thought this is not I don't I don't first of all I'm really not excited about any of these jobs I don't really want to be somebody's secretary and I don't you know really want to go somewhere from 8 30 to 5 every day if I'm honest yeah yeah fair call uh yeah um and that was when I was living at a friend's house and she made a joke about how many home renovation shows I watched on TV and said that I should get my real estate license. Wow. And yeah.

And so my immediate reaction actually was, you've got to be kidding me. Like you just picture in your head, this real estate lady, you know, with her big hair. her little matching outfit and I was like that is so far from who I am um but I you know she planted a seed and so I dove into it a little more and I realized it was really low-hanging fruit like it's not expensive to get your license it's just a matter of passing a test and um and I started talking to some people who were doing it and they said no you can really make this whatever you want it to be um you know you want to ride your bike around downtown and sell apartments like you can do that um and i just thought that was that was kind of my first uh window into the world of

entrepreneurship and i really liked i saw there was property property something that was in the blood but was it wasn't an interest or was it just that you're sitting there watching tv while you're trying to work out what you're going to do and that just seemed like a good idea at the time it was a little bit of both you know it wasn't something i really thought about too much although i will say my dad um had always sort of you know he dabbled he'd owned a few rentals and and he sort of taught us that it was a good way to invest but i could never sit still enough to think that property would make sense for me um yeah how much were you influenced by your parents in relation into your thinking around that was and let's talk about mom and your dad were they how were they

in their thinking around all of that yeah you know it's funny because I feel like you know my so my dad had his own business he had an insurance agency that I worked in from the age of probably 12 we used to stuff envelopes for him and and then as soon as I was old enough I was in there in the summers answering the phone and and so on the one hand while and then my my mom was a stay-at-home mom and so she really you know just supported him and and took care of us and um so she had her own work ethic and and it's funny because I feel like I when I was younger I sort of rebelled against you know my dad was very much you gotta you gotta have a job you gotta work 40 hours a week you gotta put in the time and then you know retire like you were saying earlier and

and I just was like nah I don't I don't buy that for a second however he had his own business you know and and so I kind of I kind of absorbed a lot of stuff like that from him and he was you know what he was saying was make a plan you know stick to it be steady at it which is stuff that I don't feel I've been great at um and uh so yeah so I don't think I realized how much value I I took from just watching him and the way he worked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

By osmosis, we sort of absorb it without realizing we're doing it. Right. Yeah. None of us want to be our parents until we realize that we are our parents. I know. Isn't it scary? My dad was in real estate late, and I vowed and declared I was never going to be. I used to tell him, I'm never going to be like you.

That's not me. I'm creative. So I raced off and became an architect and then killed myself in the process and then ended up back in property. And I was like, hmm, thank you, Dad. Never say never. Maybe you were onto something there. Okay, so your sort of passion for property started to awaken. Take us through what you did and where that led you to.

Yeah, it was a really interesting journey for me because it was, you know, I started out was just I'm just hungry. I need a paycheck. Um, and this seems to be an open door. And so, um, I, my first year was definitely a real struggle. You know, I was, I was just being an agent at that time. Um, so I was out looking for clients and, um, trying to learn how to actually do this job. They don't, they don't really teach you, you know, you go to real estate school, you get your license, they teach you the law and contracts a little bit and stuff, but they don't teach you that you're now a small business and you have to find clients and you have to manage your finances and your business structure and all these bits and pieces that are new skills you have to learn um but i think that's

what i loved about it was it's aside from property itself just being there's so much you can learn um just then running a business itself was also stuff that i i was really enjoying learning so i I struggled through that first year. I finally found a good company to, uh, that was really fun. And, and I had a great boss who really, um, you know, just held my hand, uh, through the first 10 months before I like finally got a real paycheck out of it. Um, but I mean, I was living off my credit cards and, um, really, yeah. Feeling, feeling the stress. Um, and you know, Yeah, it was. Because I'm not about you, but I've unfortunately been through a marriage split myself many years ago.

And the biggest challenge I had, Mickey, was me because I took it to heart. I felt like a failure. I call it my Howard Hughes years where I pretty much withdrew and tried to get my head around what had happened and how did I get there and what am I going to do differently. and I'd certainly made a major change. Then I gave architecture away at the same time because I blamed that for part of the exercise and then felt very vulnerable because you really are then starting again on all fronts, not just the relationship but work and everything else.

So you throw some financial challenges in there and that would have been a pretty challenging time, I'm guessing. Yeah, there were some dark days where I just really didn't feel like i i knew what i was doing that i was qualified to do what i was doing and also you know you kind of sometimes you get into um it's you know it's it's not a it's not an industry where where it's very admired you know we're kind of the used car salesman of the real estate world yeah and so so there's a lot of uh you know there's something to be said to faking it till you make it kind of thing but you know when you're out networking and you're sort of putting on the smile and oh yeah

things are great because you don't want to seem desperate and you want people to hire you and and so you know I struggled with that sense of not always feeling like I was being my authentic self or that the relationships I were was building were genuine um which I which was not something I was that I was comfortable with yeah okay so talk us through how you came through that and then and then where that's then led you to um I think yeah I mean I want to say it's something that I struggled with throughout my whole career in real estate which is part of the reason why I've sort of stepped away from it now. But while I was in it, I think what I did was, um, first I just tried to surround myself with really good people. Um, I very quickly went

from working for other people. Um, the first company I worked with, like it was a lot of fun. They were doing some really creative, interesting things, but I started worrying about, um, um just the ethical uh way things business was being done and the people we were doing business with and I and I actually left that company preemptively just to say I'm not going down with this ship um and uh and I think I and so I just I just you only have to work for someone else for two years so I just kind of um took my time took the next year with with another company until I could go out on my own and then I was just determined you know that my company is going to put our clients first we're going to um you know it's not going to be about the paycheck it's

going to be what's right for our clients especially since we were working primarily with real property investors um you know as people are making really big decisions with sometimes the only money they have and that just puts a lot of responsibility on me and my team to serve them well um yeah and so I just started trying to find ways to really connect with my clients where I was, I could feel authentic. Like I was really being helpful, you know? It wasn't just about, I don't care if you ever work with me, you're doing this and you should know this, you know, and just giving them that information so they could make informed decisions. So that's kind of how I addressed it was just to check in with myself, even that it's still hard. Sometimes you're calling somebody and

you're like, do I really want to go have a beer with this person? Or do I know that they're probably going to sell their house next year and i should keep in touch you know yeah so yeah yeah that's sort of internal conflict the whole time with that isn't there it's and and so interested how you've come to grips with that because i guess as a you know over here as a business very early we decided that uh we would say no to as much business as we say yes to and if we don't like the person and we don't like their values and it doesn't feel right then shake hands and wish them well and and uh focus your energy on people that you do connect with and do we respect each other and then it's just business is a whole lot more fun and a lot more if you do that yeah yeah when

i started training um agents and i it i do i teach them you know to consider you know maybe you need to fire that client or maybe you need to not work with that client you know and when you're starting out that just sounds so wrong because you're like no i need money and i'm like yeah but this is going to suck up your time and energy and you're not going to have fun and if you just will set that aside it'll make room for something better yeah yeah yeah now tell me about the property investor piece then and what does that mean in your context so what are they doing how are you helping them what sort of properties are they buying i just love to sort of understand that in in your context sure sure um for the most part um you know the reason i started working with

investors is because as i became an agent and i was just in property all the time i just saw a lot of opportunity and so i was taking some doing some investing myself in different ways um and and then i wanted to teach my clients to do that and help them do that so we sort of ended up specializing in this what we call a house hacker which is a um, a client who wants to, um, they want to be a real estate investor, but they're probably in the, at the stage of where they're buying their own house first. Um, and instead of just buying a house, they, they want to buy something that has a rental suite, you know, has a granny flat out back, or it has, uh, it's a duplex and there's, they can rent out one side and whatever,

so that they're sort of helping their ability to buy the next property. Yeah. Yeah, okay. And the stuff that you were doing, you mentioned you started to invest yourself. What were you doing? Yeah, I've dabbled in a lot of different stuff. I've done a handful of flips, both residential and then I've also renovated a commercial building like a storefront.

And I've owned a couple of notes. and right now the best thing I've been in is I'm in a couple of large apartment building syndications where I just put the money in and I just collect my dividends every month, which is nice. Okay, so it's like the old multifamily stuff that they talk about because I had a chat to another Aussie guy on Get Invested a little while ago called Reid Goossens who specializes in that sort of multifamily syndication type exercise

because my wife and I own property in the States, Mickey, and that's been a very interesting and challenging journey for us between you and I. We sort of jumped on a plane when the global financial crisis happened because we thought there's never going to be a better time to pick up property below its value in the States. So we spent a few trips over there and we spent as much time talking to people as we did looking at the property because it's the quality of the team on the

ground that you've got to rely on ultimately and that has been very challenging for us. So I can see why the syndication side of things would have some attraction because it's got some scale, it gives you a regular dividend flow from what I understand and you can also So, sort of manufacture some capital growth, buy some improvements to the properties that you can then take advantage of when and if the exercise is sold on. Yeah, for me, I was just taking advantage of other people's expertise. You know, like I said, I haven't always been the best at being very systematic and steady. And so, sometimes I look at something like that and I think, well, it's a little conservative. You know, I'd like to make more, but I can, you know, break my back and stress myself out doing a flip that I hope will make me more.

um but you know can i do it consistently whereas these guys the guys i invest with they just know their stuff and i trust them and they've done really well and so why not just yeah keep it easy and then i can focus on other other fun things exactly right and this is i think this is a key concept because um you know i often say to people yes uh my wife and i have invested heavily in property but it's a it's a means to an end to us i love it because i sort of sort of been doing it for a long time now but if if kebabs or or um uh i'm just trying to think chocolate bars were giving you the same uh return i'd invest in those because what it does do is is freed up time for me to do the stuff i really do enjoy which is playing piano and uh getting

back into the creative musical side and writing books and stuff that I do. So it's become an enabler and that's what I love about property. If you've set it up the right way, it can sort of give you an income flow without tying you up totally to then free up time to get back into the stuff that you've perhaps buried for too long and still want to get to and the stuff that puts a smile on your face. And it sounds to me a little bit like you're sort of weaving your way through a similar journey mickey am i right i i am um i'll be i'll be really up front and say i'm kicking myself because i you know here i was i i spent eight years working in property i was making good money

um and i was saving a lot of money uh and putting it into different these different types of investments and i owned a couple properties and uh and then instead of making a decision saying okay i would need to set this up so that it will support me so that i can then do something different i just sort of got tired and um i mean i might my poor agents i must have come in and told them i was quitting you know five times in a year but i knew i had built something you know and so i just couldn't bring myself i was i was just telling myself oh this is wrong you put all this time and effort into this you know you have to you have to keep going or you have to figure out a way to make it pay off. And I just sort of stuck, almost stuck my head in the

sand. You know, I started running the business remotely and I was traveling around the world and my head wasn't really in the game. And then I made some bad, some bad decisions about people to work with and lost some money on projects. And so I had the opportunity to, to take what I had and put it into something nice and reliable that would now be paying, you know, my rent or my plane tickets or whatever um and i didn't and i didn't so now i sort of feel like i do have a few things trickling in but i feel like i learned a very hard lesson and that and now i'm going to have to start over and build something again so that i can then make a better decision next time about well let's dig into that because i you know i was going to talk to you about that and having

read some of the stuff about where you've been running the business remotely um while you're Travelling around the world and Thailand, Argentina and other locations. How did that go? I guess I'm interested here because given our own experience in the States, which has been challenging, and our own desire ultimately, we're trying to set our business up in a way that for at least three months of the year we can be operating remotely from somewhere else, checking in and then coming back and spending time on the ground

to keep the wheels turning. what were the challenges in there what worked what what didn't i'd love you to share some of that if you don't mind yeah sure you know and i i was pleasantly surprised the first year i think it worked uh quite well um and what uh what worked was i i had to get out of the day-to-day you know I mean, it's with any business where you're, you're, you've started it and you've grown it, you know, we tend to want to hold on to all the pieces. And so, you know, I was doing stuff like going and checking the mail, which I enjoyed. So that's fine, but really not, you know, what I would call a high dollar activity that the boss should be spending time on. And so when I decided

I was actually working with a career coach at the time, and she was the one that introduced me to this idea of being a digital nomad and i by showing me a program where they facilitated travel for you they organized your accommodation and um and uh and workspace and all that and you just kind of had to show up um and she she was just showing it to me as like here's an interesting thing someone made and i was like i need to go and do that and uh and within months i was i had signed up and i was on my way to south korea of all places awesome um yeah but it so it sort of forced me to say all right how do i make this work um which i think is important for anything that is you know in your life whether it's an investment or a business or you know your family

or whatever it's like there are gonna be times where you are gonna have to step out you know you get sick, or you want to take care of someone else. You know, and if you're not set up for that, if you don't have the systems in place to take care of that, it can really wreak havoc on your finances or your stress levels. So it was good. So I so I had the chance to sort of think about, okay, how am I finding? How am I driving new business? Should I be the one that's doing the networking can i do that remotely um i was doing a lot of that through an online investing forum already and i the cool thing was i found that when i i was so worried about people not getting the fact that i was not present um but i found that i actually attracted a lot of clients who

totally got it they were like oh yeah we're we're from florida uh we want to we want to live in colorado so our jobs are remote uh you're doing what you're doing what we want to do you know perfect which was great yeah yeah so i guess that you mentioned the systems i guess the other really important ingredient here i'm sort of talking from our experience is the quality of people that you've got on the ground that are doing it while you're not there that's that's yeah one of the biggest challenges and that's dynamic because i can be great today and something can happen in their lives tomorrow it can be a different story how did you find that yes um it was i did i was pretty lucky, I think. And I think that stemmed from just originally trying to surround myself

with, with good quality people. Um, I had, I had a team of eight and when I announced that I was leaving, uh, four or five of them self-selected themselves out of the organization. Um, yeah. And, uh, which was fine cause it was, we didn't really need eight people. And I, that was something else I had to learn was that I just had grown in ways that weren't smart yeah um I just was adding bodies I wasn't really people weren't really serving a purpose I was still driving most of the business so I was left with a core group of people who I still refer business to now who I trusted to take care of things and then I used my time away to build out our standard operating procedures and create checklists and things so that I wasn't

having, they weren't having to be micromanaged by me, but I could trust that things were being done at the level that I expected them to be done. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, it's, and that's a pretty big learning curve and it's something that,

that I'd personally and continue to go through because I, my perfectionism tends to get in the way and you want to control everything and all you're doing is holding people back and they're actually a lot happier when you actually get out of the way and allow them to have the freedom to start feeling like they're making a big contribution themselves. Yeah? Yeah.

I heard a great talk about that this summer. And I hadn't really put two and two together in my mind. I knew I was a bit of a control freak, but I thought it was justified. You know, I have really high standards. I want the clients to be met with these high standards. But, you know, this guy was just saying you can't give people things to do. You've got to give them ownership, you know. And I was like, oh, man, yeah, I did not do that very well.

Yeah, yeah, I'm suffering the same thing. We're very fortunate. We've got an awesome team. Almost like a family, yeah, the way we operate together. And we call each other business partners because that's effectively what we are. I'm helping them to be successful, and if they're successful, then so are we. but it's a it is a big adjustment for someone who likes to have their hands on everything and you know I sort of grew up as an architect where everything had to be just right

yeah it's oh yeah quite challenging to be able to to let that go and it sounds like you've had similar similar challenges in your front Ricky definitely okay well let's that would have been a pretty interesting journey in itself because it's that sort of it's slow release isn't it in that well I don't really want to be doing this but I don't want to let it go how can I hold on but do something else that that would have been a having been through that when I left architecture it's a really challenging challenging time how are you feeling with that now and and where you're at them a little bit it's um yeah it is challenging and a lot of it's just pressure you put on yourself you know to say oh i'm this age you know i should be here in my life by now or i've proven

that i'm successful at something so even if i'm not excited about it i should stick with it because the money's good or you know and um i really struggled having knowing what my why was um so my approach was just to keep working with coaches who just kept pushing me on stuff and i i think i've come to the conclusion so far that my why is really my family you know i just want to be able to take care of them you know both my brothers work hard and have kids and um and my parents are getting older and you know they just need more care and um and i would love to be the person that can just say great i can take care of that for you okay um and you know in a financial sense and and otherwise because if if my like last year um because i was working remotely

i was able to come home and be with my mom as she recovered from a hip surgery you know and i couldn't do that if I had a nine to five job yeah um so it's that kind of stuff so so sorry to get back to your question it's it um I really have just had to let go of a lot of beliefs that I have about myself and about what um what I should you know air quotes there uh be doing and um and i've just started to let go a lot more and say i'm gonna play you know i spent the last two months um just making stuff that's what i decided to do it's like i've talked about all these things you know oh i'd always wanted to do this i always wanted to write this and blah blah blah you know like you said get back into music more um so now i'm just gonna give myself the freedom to do that

and see what comes out of it instead of saying well I better go get this kind of a job to make this kind of money and stuff and and just be a little more playful with my approach to because at the end of the day I'm always fine you know I'm never not going to be out on the street uh no one's going to let me starve to death you know and so so you know when you ask like what what have you invested in I think in in my most of my life I just invested way too much in worrying about what might happen and that's just that's just a killer you know yeah yeah pretty common though mickey that's i think most of us fall fall into that it's like let's let's take the safe road let's uh uh yeah this mightn't be what i want to do but it's going to pay the

bills and then suddenly wake up when they're 55, 60 and go, holy hell, I'm a long way through this journey and I haven't really done anything that I've actually wanted to do. I think it's a very common thing. I applaud you for having the courage to say, well, hold on, there's some stuff I really want to get done here. I'm going to trust the universe that it's going to be okay and I'm going to start putting my age into things I really do enjoy

and see where that leads me to. And it's funny because I always was one to say, you know, when people would come to me saying, oh, well, what if this fails and what if, you know, I would always say the rule is if you're going to what if, you have to what if both sides of it. You can say what if I'm an absolute failure. You have to say, well, what if you're a raging success, you know. But it's so hard, of course, to take our own advice.

Yeah. The external mirror is something that I think we worry way too much about as well. It comes back to our, you know, because I struggle with this all the time, the self-esteem thing because there's a little voice on the inside that says, you know, one day someone's going to find out that you're not who you think you are. And so you spend a whole lot of this time, you know, convincing people that you are everything that so-called society believes that you should be.

And it's probably only been in the last few years, Mickey, that I've sort of started to go, well, stuff that. I couldn't give monkeys what other people think. This is who I am and this is actually what I like doing. If you don't like it, well, that's okay. What about you? Are you sort of feeling comfortable? Where are you at in that context?

So it's an interesting thing, because I always thought when I was younger, I felt like I was very confident. And then I feel like the older I've gotten, the more I'm starting to realize that I do edit myself a lot. And I don't want to do that. You know, I do. I want to live very out loud. I just want to be unapologetically myself. But you know, old habits die hard. and so it's it's definitely on my radar something that i am working on um and i um sorry i'm just losing my train of thought there okay um well let's talk about let's zone in on the play thing you said like i'm just going to play what what are you playing at just just talk us through what play means yeah that's been really fun um so it was like I said it kind of spawned from I heard myself saying someday I'd like to dot dot dot you know and realizing how many things I had said that about and just starting to ask myself well when exactly you know miss you're now almost 47 you know when exactly is someday um and so i just uh i actually took a job this summer

that turned out to be a terrible fit um but it uh it sort of propelled me to say all right well if i'm not going to do that what am i going to do and so i i built uh i really have i've been building these online courses and i really love it um i love designing the curriculum i love editing the video i mean it's it surprised me that i enjoyed it so much but so i built some courses and it's just been stuff like i go to these uh film festivals and writers conferences and i see people struggling with networking and so i built a course called networking for screenwriters and i just have it up on udemy and i i think i got a 36 payout today you know um so it's but you know it's like but i know i've built something and um yeah i read screenplays and give people feedback

and i know how hard it is to write a screenplay and so i was like well i better try to write one you know and so i'm working my way through a 90-day screenplay program now and um yeah so these are a couple of the things that i've i've been working on i'd like to be writing some more music um i've got a ton of ideas yeah great well there's a there's a clear creative side there did you play do you play a musical instrument or i do yeah i'm a singer first and foremost i play piano but i and i taught myself guitar so i could accompany myself on the same yeah i love to sing that i but to be able to sing and not have to rely on a band where you're virtually marrying four other people, I need to play an instrument.

So I self-taught guitar and now the last couple of years I've been going hard on piano because it just puts a massive smile on my face every time I tinkle in libraries. Yeah, yeah. I haven't had a piano in my house in probably at least a decade and that's something I also would like to change. Yeah, it's just there's something magical about music and that's the universal language, there's absolutely no question about that. So, yeah, that's awesome.

So it's really good, though, that you're putting the big rocks in because if you put the big rocks in, then that puts a smile on your face. Then you tend to attract other good things into your life. That's in my own view, I guess. And it does affect your sense of well-being and your confidence and everything else that goes with that. So if you're not sort of filling that tank, which a lot of people just go hard on working 50, 60 hours a week

and then they'd spend their weekends carting the family around and they're exhausted. There's no margin. There's no time to actually put the big rocks in and that has a consequence. What's your feeling around that? Yeah, I agree. And I think for me it's just been I always have just been waiting

for something to happen. You know, I've just been like, okay, well, when I get here, you know, when I make this much money I'll have time to do this or when I figure out what my next career is, then I'll be happy because I'll feel more fulfilled in my daily life. And I've just had to say, one, you know, a lot of the things you want, I want in my life, I have control over, you know, if I don't want to be stressed about money, it's not that I need to go out and make a bunch of money. It's that I need to choose to not be stressed about money. And it's really that simple. It's not simple to do, but it's really that simple. And

And so for me, it's just been about taking ownership of my life and then recognizing that it's happening right now. And for all I know, you know, this might be the last 30 minutes or the last 24 hours. So really, why waste it on straight now? You're laughing. I can tell you agree, yeah. Spot on.

Absolutely nailed it there. That's exactly it. If we're not – again, we're getting philosophical here, but for me, happiness is a choice. It's a choice. It's a choice we can make right now and it's not a situation or circumstance unless we allow it to be. Yeah.

So making that call to go, right, this is what I love doing. I'm going to do that and then the rest can find its course is a pretty big step, Mickey. So that sounds awesome. Now, I want to extrapolate that a bit. So let's have a look. But I'd love you to talk us through what is your ideal lifestyle? What are you doing?

Where are you doing it? Who are you with? What's your day, week, month, year look like? Talk us through. I'd love you to paint a picture for us of what your ideal lifestyle looks like. Yeah. And I'm still, I think I'm still sort of allowing myself to dream that. But what I've been focusing on are like what are the qualities I want in it.

And so for me, ease is a big thing, you know, it's, it's, I get up in the morning and I have the time and the space to do whatever's most important to me. If I'm writing something, um, or I'm, you know, connecting with my partner or, you know, that I have the space to have a cup of tea and listen to the birds chirp, um, and, uh, and then go about my day. I definitely want to, I think I'm a six month here, six month there kind of person. Um, so I'd love to have my little renovated cottage in the Irish countryside. Um, and, uh, yeah, with a garden and all of that. And, and, and then, and then, you know, my, my flat and some bustling metropolis where I go to, to get my fix of movies and fancy restaurants. And, you know, I just, I can't tear myself away from the city but I know I need a little more peace and quiet in my life um yeah so I'd like you know and so I'd like to own you know own homes in two different places I'd like to just be being creative um I think one of the things that has put me off from doing a creative

business in the past is this idea of I have to do everything like I did in my last business and now I was like no I don't I just need to figure out what I'm good at and then hire the people to do all the other stuff um yeah yeah so um yeah so just uh you know and then lots of time with family you know just be great to be able to say hey everybody let's you know let's do a vacation by the beach um you know i've rented a couple houses and we'll fly you out yeah yeah brilliant yeah the time thing is the is the is the piece isn't it I know for myself, when I came out of that dark cloud after the marriage went belly up and my father had some pretty serious health issues at the same time and he sort of grabbed

me by the throat and said, wake up yourself, don't end up like me, you better start getting your money to work for you rather than working for money, that sort of pushed me down the quite boring property path. We're just buyers and holders and that's worked really well for us here in Australia. Yeah, that's how you do it though. Well, it is boring. There's nothing exciting about it, but if you allow time to do its thing, then you actually get your time back.

That's the exciting thing, I think, Vicky. And, you know, like you, because of what Dad said to me, I had the privilege then years later when Mum was sort of diagnosed with terminal cancer, I had the privilege of taking 12 months out pretty much to help Mum die with dignity at home in her own bed. Oh, that's great. It was that time luxury that I had as a result of what we'd invested in around the property side that gave me the opportunity to spend that time, which I'll never regret. It's probably some of the most precious time I've spent as a result.

And while I miss her like hell, I don't feel like I've missed out on saying what needed to be said and being there in the good times and the bad. and so it's yeah that's that's that's awesome mickey uh have you got any thoughts and i guess it's still formative in your own mind how how you're going to create or what you're going to invest in to to create that lifestyle for yourself you've got any thoughts yeah i yeah um i'm going to continue making things um and what i have this what's kind of been bubbling up over the last few months um is audio drama um it's uh yeah it's so podcasting but you know scripted podcasting um it's you know it's something that's been around for a while but it's very much um uh there's a new wave of it happening and it's just a lot more accessible than you know because i've thought

about trying to break into the film and tv industry um but it's just so things are just done a certain way and if you're not 22 you know it just all of that just it just it's i don't want to move to LA. I don't want to work for someone who's going to treat me poorly. I don't want to claw my way through. So it's sort of a media industry that is on the cusp of really breaking out. There's a lot of potential there, but it's still accessible and it's still very much a community. And so it's all the things I love about creativity with opportunity. So I'm not sure what that looks like. I've got some great ideas for services to support the industry and also, you know, I could just come in and write stuff

and produce stuff. It's a very low bar, you know, low barrier to entry. So I think that's where the field I'm headed in. Who knows what that will actually look like, but I'm pretty excited about the possibilities for sure. Well, I think, as you mentioned already, the opportunity you have is if you make something that is then there forever so people can access it,

they listen to it, they can read it, then you've effectively created an asset that people can see as value but you don't have to physically deliver it every day of the week. If you continue to build around that, then ultimately you can monetize that to the point where that'll fund the lifestyle that allow you to do other creative things and spend the precious time with your mum and dad. Yeah, yeah.

Location independence has become really important to me, so that's another thing about it that I like. Yeah, and just for those listeners who don't understand location independence, it means you can do anything from anywhere and the income comes in without you necessarily having to be there to deliver it. Yes. And it's certainly something that since reading The 4-Hour Workweek

and a whole bunch of other stuff around that years ago, I was like, right, this is a path we're on, and hence the reason why my wife and I have created a business and our property investments give us a strong income here that doesn't necessarily need us and that gives us the freedom to spend three months a year travelling around the world, enjoying other cultures and soaking into other people doing the same thing.

Awesome. That sounds awesome. All right, well, look, what I'm perhaps keen to do is to dig into what I like to refer to as the ambush session, if I can. Yeah, bring it on. And it's the old sort of machine gun dance questions that all the listeners love to sort of get your best tips and tricks on. So kicking straight into that, what's your favourite quote and why?

Is there a motto or something you live your life by or it might be one of your own or one that really resonates with you? what can you yeah my one of my favorite quotes is rita may brown um where she says the reward for conformity is that everyone likes you but yourself that's awesome that's gold it's just a reminder to be you know just be yourself you're that's all you can do really that's yeah that's that's yeah that's quite powerful actually i haven't heard that one before that's that's a that's a beauty okay what about on the writing side given that You do a lot of reading, mind you, probably a lot of scripts and whatnot,

but clearly an avid reader. What's the top book that you would recommend people read? One of my favorite books that I reread periodically is called The Practical Dreamer's Handbook. And it's a lot about sort of, you know, figuring out the life you want to live, but also very practical ways to support yourself in that financially. And it's very much along the lines of your ethos is that it's invest your time and your money into the things that matter to you. So it's Practical Dreamer's Handbook.

I like it. I haven't read that one either. So that's gold. I'm an absolute – I stole it from someone's bookshelf when I was house-sitting for them, I have to admit. Best way to do it. That's the best way to do it, I reckon. And house-sitting is a great way to see the world.

That's certainly something that Sonia and I do a fair bit of. Cool. Now, this one is probably more relevant to Aussies than it is to the States, but it's a subject that people talk about a lot here in terms of feeling like they pay too much tax. What's the top thing that you've done to minimize tax at your end, Miki? yeah so interestingly enough and i don't know if this would apply in um australia but in the u.s there is this little loophole of if you're not in the country um then you can write off a certain amount of your income so actually by becoming a digital nomad and living overseas um i was able to reduce my tax significantly um over the past couple years yeah so i guess the even if you can't directly apply that principle that the thing is you know be creative when you start doing the things you want to do sometimes they're you know it supports you in that way too they might find a

little creative loophole you can use that's a that's uh just another great reason to uh what a travel i love it that's awesome okay now uh turning back to the investment theme what's the worst and best piece of investment advice that you've ever received mickey oh man um let's see i think the best uh best advice i've ever gotten which i dole out frequently as well is that you just really need to do your homework when you are getting into business with other people um get get referrals talk to people that have worked with that person you know think of all the questions you can ask and then think again and if there's something that just isn't sitting right then listen to it you know because something else will come along i think we always

feel like oh if i miss this opportunity then nothing else will come along but if you're doing your research and your intuition's kind of bugging you then i say listen to it and just wait for the next right thing yeah that's a really good point there's way too many of us that ignore our gut feeling and how many times has it got right it's uh yeah yeah in fact every time i've gone against my gut i've regretted it so uh i hear exactly what you're saying that that's a good call what about the what about the worst piece of investment advice yeah you know i'm really struggling to think of a bad piece of investing advice that i've gotten i've definitely been pushed towards some bad deals where i've sort of argued against them and saying you know here's the reasons why

I don't think this is a good idea. And people have said, no, no, no, it's great, you know. And then a year later, they're like, yeah, you were right. So I think I've just been fortunate, you know, to really, again, because I do my homework. Even when I get advice, I do my homework and I consider the source and I check it out with other people. So I've been really fortunate to have really great people around me

giving me good advice. Brilliant. Love that. okay and the um a personal habit that uh contributes to your personal success mickey what would you share there yeah um i've developed a lot of new habits over the past few years you know getting a morning routine down and stuff but i think the one thing that i am not an expert at but i am working on continually is not complaining um because as soon as you just tell yourself you can't complain it sort of forces you to focus on solutions yeah and not problems yeah and it just

makes you a nicer person to be around yeah the truth yep which is my goal i'd like to be a nicer person to be around yeah yeah but i think creatives are by nature very critical and i'm not talking about self here and uh because you're critical you tend to see fault in things uh yeah i know When I was an architect, as an architect, perfection is everything. And I think that's okay. It's okay. I think it's okay to assess things, but then just don't go down the stream of, oh, well, rah, rah, you know, and say, okay, well, what are we going to do about it?

Well, I'm a much happier person since I gave away architecture because I gave away that whole critical thing. Yeah, I just asked my wife, Sonia, she'll tell you. It's probably been the best thing I've done because I've just learned to let that shit go, which is really good, actually. So, yeah, that's such a simple thing, though, Mickey, that many people don't. So, if you just get up in the morning and say, I'm not going to complain, and you actually start it with some gratitude. Okay, what am I happy for?

What am I thankful for? Wow, it's amazing how it affects your outlook. There's no question about that. So, that's some gold right there. Okay, if we sort of bring it to a head then and we focused on what are the best or most worthwhile investments that you've ever made. And I'm talking here about you're investing your time, energy, money or relationships. What would you say? Yeah.

I mean, I think relationships always is what it comes down to. And what stands out for me is I've, you know, when I was in a few years into my real estate career and I had people starting to come to me for advice, it, you know, I didn't have a lot of spare time. I was working pretty hard um but I just always tried to make time to have a bunch of people and pass on what I had learned because I really appreciated the people who had gone before me and done that for me um and I think it's important to give other people a leg up and so you know and now it's like I have lifelong friends who I actually just needed a um a video testimonial for something and I you know went to one of these guys that I just started talking to him when he was an investor we'd have lunch once a month and then he ended up coming to work for me and now he

has his own business and is very successful and I'm thrilled to see that and it's very nice to hear when you know he'll say oh yeah you should totally work with Mickey you know she changed my life because she met with me when she didn't really have an incentive to and and you know and it just it just goes to show that you know you when you give what you can whether it's your knowledge or your time or your support to people um you know it comes back it does and it's i don't know about you but i just find it really fulfilling uh just to just to give to someone without any expectation of anything in return and then to see that uh see grow into something that they get personal success from i don't think there's yeah i'm very much an abundance person

you know if we all help each other do better then we all do better absolutely yeah awesome Now, just to sort of bring it to a close, if you were to speak to someone who's just leaving school then, Miki, or advise them to invest their time, money, and skills in to create freedom for themselves, what would you say? Wow. Oh, man, that's a lot of pressure. But I think our systems are so broken, at least in the United States. You know, it's very formulaic. You go to school, you go to university, you get a job. and I would say invest your time in relationships and experiences you know um I was I was uh there's

a meditation I listened to which reminds me it says make set goals based on what you want to learn and I really liked that so you know if you're just coming out of school and everyone's telling you oh you better do this you better do that you know listen to your gut and think about what are the things you want to learn what's the type of person you want to be and invest your time in the people and experiences that will help you become that person gold that's absolutely gold that's uh yeah if you just get back to that ignore all the noise and all of the should and the must and yeah all of that crap there's no rules there are no rules there aren't there aren't and And that trodden road of school, uni, career, you know, I know myself.

I tried to console my good father that I could combine my creative side and have a real job by becoming an architect because it sort of seemed like a nice balance between the two that ticked those boxes. So I went to uni and I did all that. And, yeah, I had a great time through it, but at the end of the day that came at a pretty significant cost. If I'd taken on board the advice issues you gave then and then got back to, you know, well, what's important to me

and what do I need to go and learn to help me do that, either by talking to other people and getting that experience, I probably would have avoided a lot of the pitfalls that I've had along the road, Mickey. Yeah, I know that trap too. Okay, well, just to bring it to a close, and I'm very appreciative of the time you've spent with us. What time is it over in your neck of the woods?

It's quarter to five in the evening. I'm going to go have dinner with my brother and my niece and nephew. Awesome. Good to hear that. Well, what's next new and exciting for you, Mickey? Yeah, I mean, so right now I'm just sort of learning. about the podcast industry, the audio drama stuff. I'm going to reach out to some people that I've met at festivals recently

and just see if there's ways that I can help them in what they're doing. Yeah, and just trying to be creative, writing every day and trusting that something will come of all of this. Well, stay in touch because I think there's a lot of people doing podcasts that are making it up as they go along. and a bit like you I've been doing a lot of reading around the art of the interview and I think my next book's actually going to be the art of the interview because I just think there's a massive gap there there's a lot of people doing this and certainly I love the podcast journey

because I get to meet some fantastic people like yourself in all corners of the world and learn lots on that journey and it's a great way to communicate to people in a way that you know voice is a very important trust element and if people can hear you uh then they start to feel like they know you but i think there's a massive opportunity there for someone like yourself with the skills you've got to help craft that because the storytelling and the the the narrative journey that a podcast can be as an episode and can turn what could be a pretty average conversation into a a very intriguing and engaging piece of audio. So I would encourage you to do that.

I think there's a massive opportunity there for those that recognize how powerful podcasting can be. Great. Well, that's nice to hear. Excellent, Mickey. Well, thanks again. I'll stay in touch on that and really appreciate your time. Look forward to catching up and watching your journey as we move forward.

Thank you. It's been a pleasure. I'm really glad we connected. Thanks. Thanks, Vicki. Well, Freedom Fighters, how good was that? To get a summary of all this investment gold in the show notes, just email me on hello at khgroup.com.au.

That's H-E-L-L-O at khgroup.com.au. Or check us out at www.bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. I look forward to joining you next week for another episode of the Get Invested podcast. So thanks for listening. And as always, dream as if you live forever and live as if you die tomorrow.