Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Jeremy Iannuzzelli on X Factor Investing

Starting point is 00:00:00 I started to educate myself further on properties that had favorable zoning, properties that I could add and manufacture equity to. I talk about an X factor many times with my clients. I look to buy properties always with an X factor. So in any economical environment or political environment that is, is that I have the opportunity and I've got the control to make money as opposed to waiting for time to pass us by and create equity. Welcome to Get Invested, the leading weekly podcast to help you unlock your full potential and enjoy your version of sustainable success that lies at the intersection of your three elves, yourself, your health, and your wealth.

Starting point is 00:00:44 I'm your host and guide, Bushy Martin, and each week we go deep, sharing great conversations with proven experts in all walks of life, including the best investors, property experts, analysts, leaders, founders, sports stars and health gurus to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills and their money and the benefits that this creates. To help you find out what it takes to break free from the grind and discover your flavour of freedom, to create your freedom formula. You see, the truth is that everyone invests. Every second of every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good,

Starting point is 00:01:30 sometimes for bad, and sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen, not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less, and live your legacy by investing now. You'll enjoy the stories and secrets of high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and discover the top tips on how to get started, how to make the most of your investment journey and ultimately to be living your dream, not someone else's. As you engage in each episode, you'll gain the information, inspiration and implementation that you need to get empowered and get invested in imagining and actioning the life that you've

Starting point is 00:02:17 always dreamed about. And Get Invested is proudly part of Property Hub, your home for property investment insights and inspiration. Make sure you subscribe now on your favourite podcast player to get every episode of Get Invested and Realty Talk, which is Australia's leading and longest running online property show that's full of red hot property investment news and insights direct from all of the industry leaders and influencers. You can also connect with me personally and join the Get Invested community of fellow Freedom Fighters at bushymartin.com.au or on knowhowproperty.com.au. Now, let's get invested. Hi, Freedom Fighters. What separates successful property investors from the rest?

Starting point is 00:03:06 Why do most property investors get stuck at one to two properties while others manage to establish high value portfolios and strong cash flows. As I detail in my book, The Freedom Formula, the answers lie in the fact that the majority of investors focus on the property, while the 5% who achieve sustainable success focus on the principles, the processes and the people before even starting to look at the bricks and mortar. Successful investors have clear goals and a well-developed strategy to achieve them. And the strategy revolves around clever structuring and cash flow management so that you keep as much of your hard-earned in your pocket, not the tax officers, and you're able to afford to last the distance and exhibit the patience

Starting point is 00:03:49 and persistence that will allow you to enjoy the fruits of property long-term. Now, this all makes property investment sound a bit like running a business, and that's appropriate because it is. Property is just the product and the means to an end. It's how you structure it and manage the money side that generally separates the best from the rest. And one of the critical players that underpins all of this is a specialist property accountant. Now, I'm not talking about your everyday run-of-the-mill accountant that prepares your tax returns. I'm talking about property accounting specialists who understand the multitude of taxation nuances that apply to property and also walk their own talk when it

Starting point is 00:04:32 comes to personally investing in property. Now, sadly, these critical accounting attributes are very rare to find. So you're really going to love today's special guest, Jeremy A. Mazzelli, and I'll bet you I pronounced that wrong, who ticks all of these boxes. And he's got a proven record of turning part-time property speculating hopefuls into high-performing property investors who enjoy sustainable success. As a successful accountant and active property investor implementing a combination of strategies, Jeremy channels his focus in the property investment niche to help you achieve your financial freedom through correct tax structures and tax minimisation strategies in line with your goals and objectives. So if you've been wondering how you can take your

Starting point is 00:05:15 property investment to the next level and join the ranks of the select few, today's great conversation is going to lead you in the right direction. So welcome and let's get invested, Jeremy. Thank you very much, Bushy. And mate, almost with the last name, you almost got it right it's uh it's the ia in in italian language is a yar so it's a yanudzeli um but mate i've had some very interesting um very interesting pronunciations over my many years um of people having a crack at it so mate i'll give that an eight and a half well done yanudzeli right i might i've got it now but i should have asked you beforehand but i yeah got caught up in our conversation so mate uh really looking forward to our chat today uh before we sort of kick into it

Starting point is 00:05:55 for those who don't know you, I'd love you to share, you know, what you do differently. And most importantly, mate, why do you do what you do? Yeah, well, I suppose it stems from the background of my profession. I'm an accountant and been an accountant for the past 15 years in my own practice for almost the last 10. And I love what I do. And I think that's a major reason why we're quite successful as accountants and the partners here at KHI Partners. We all love what we do. And I think that's, you know, that's something that we need to be doing with everything that we have in life or do in life. It's really loving what you do and I love property investing and you'll hear me refer to property investing as a property business because that's how I treat my

Starting point is 00:06:34 property portfolio as a business. So I suppose what do I do differently compared to many other people is always present a commercial argument to anything that I do. There's got to be a commercial realization of why I'm spending that money and it could be as little as going out to dinner, why am i spending that money um or investing in a property why am i spending that money on that property um so i i really approach everything in life uh as a commercial transaction apart from family family something you do for the love uh there's definitely no commercial transaction when it comes to getting married and having children of course definitely at the bottom of the pecking order there but but everything else in life it really stems well you know commerciality what is

Starting point is 00:07:16 the purpose for it? What's the goal behind it? And what am I looking to achieve? And I think if you work through life and you invest through life, answering those questions, you do become very successful because you're looking at the transaction more deeply and more thorough as opposed to just putting your hand in your pocket and buying any old thing or investing in any old thing. So that's probably me in a nutshell, very commercial. And many of my friends and clients will say that uh sometimes i probably don't switch off enough um and always uh always will you know question and converse you know with the reasons as to why you're doing it what's it for and what's the outcome you're looking to achieve yeah i love it mate love it well i'd love for you to just to

Starting point is 00:08:01 give a bit of a reader's digest snapshot of your journey so far focusing you know where you've invested your time and your money over the years and why and how's this led you to where you are on what you're doing today, mate. Yeah. So over the many years, obviously education's been a very important part of my life. And I'm not one of those investors that you'll see on an ad where I was dropped out or expelled from school or dropped out of high school. I was always a quiet achiever, always put my head down and worked very hard at anything that I did, whether it was sport, school, university, or my profession. And I always say that you've got to give your 110% because if you do want the most out of it,

Starting point is 00:08:41 it's only going to give you back what you've put in. So that's, I suppose, a little bit of, you know, my background and early childhood and obviously small or early professional career. My investment career obviously started at the humble age of about 19. So we're talking back in 2007, 2007, 2008. It was a GFC environment and it was just a bit of money that I'd saved up from working numerous jobs as a full-time undergraduate accountant working at a

Starting point is 00:09:13 what was it a wedding reception center on the weekends on a Saturday night and Sunday night and soccer refereeing on the week week end day so that's a Saturday and Sunday so I saved up you know the better part of about 50 grand from part-time jobs and full-time work and it was the right time to put money into property we just had a GFC rates a little bit high property prices were not not massively low just the sentiment was a little bit different obviously post gfc lots of people suffered some shocks to their super and it was just a way to get into the property market a way to get into onto the property ladder um and i just continued to say i've always been a you know very good saver uh always was taught that a dollar today was a dollar five the next um and i enjoyed

Starting point is 00:09:58 that and i enjoyed uh seeing you know the fruits of your labor i wasn't much of a a car person back then as I am now and definitely wasn't much of a holiday person back then as I am now so a lot of sacrifices went in early um and it's something that I look back in 15 years on I really do thank my 19 year old self for those sacrifices because it's given me ample opportunities um you know to achieve what I'm doing today and and doing it with a lot of ease you know not having to struggle like I did many years ago and I'm able to explore different opportunities and take advantage of different opportunities i want to jump in there mate because i'm interested in why property why not sticking into shares or or other things what what was the driver to put your hard-earned

Starting point is 00:10:43 savings into property in the first place yeah look being being of italian background property bricks and mortar was was something that a lot of you know europeans did um they didn't save too much money so when we talk about saving money it all went under the mattress and it all went into assets that they could physically see. Not many Europeans that migrated here were educated on the stock market or understood the way the stock market works. So property was, for all intensive purposes, your battler's asset. You battled your way through life, through work, you saved your money, you bought a property, you paid it down. So for me, that was a large portion of the influence came from parents and grandparents. And luckily enough, my father was quite educated and an

Starting point is 00:11:29 accountant himself. So for him, it was just a way for me to save extra money and not spend it, having a bit of a debt over my head. But then from there, Bushy, really, it was about educating myself on property, on finance. And I was just so interested to hear and learn that you could extract equity, not pay tax on it. So extracting the profit, not pay tax on it, and then use that profit equity to then continue to purchase. So it just divulged from there. And I continued to learn more about finance how people were financing large portfolios and then you know look back two or three years later on after that and there was a couple more properties in the portfolio and it just started to compound i didn't really see a lot of growth in those early years

Starting point is 00:12:12 most of the deposits came in from hard savings it wasn't until about 2012 that i really started to see the equity move and i thought wow this is great all these cogs in the machine are starting to turn and you know the equity just kept pouring in and educated myself even further and kept buying yeah well it mattered tell us about uh because i'd love to drill into your own property investment journey uh what was your initial strategy in getting into property what sort of properties did you get into and how's your both the properties and your strategy evolved over time as as you've move forward so initially it was invest in my own backyard in places that i knew quite well which was the southwest southwestern suburbs of sydney so there they were the couple initial investments

Starting point is 00:12:58 that i purchased something that i could see touch feel paint the walls if i needed to clean the gutters if i was asked to uh and and mow the lawn if the tenant wasn't there so that was the start of my property investment journey which was see touch feel being able to to go there within half an hour and fix any issues i was all about saving money at that stage now from there obviously as sydney started to to get a little bit hotter uh in that mid-teens of the 2000s i started to look elsewhere for yield and i started to buy properties with you know six seven and eight percent gross yields because i was really focused on trying to continue my portfolio and i knew that my income at that stage wasn't much i was probably getting about 50 to 60 000 as a salary so i really needed

Starting point is 00:13:43 the income from the rental property to help service the future debt and also to insure because rates were still pretty high back then, 6%, much different to where they compare today. But nevertheless, I needed that rental income to continue to grow. And I started to just buy properties and I started to look in Queensland at that stage before many people did. And I was looking in Melbourne as well, trying to chase as many yields. And somewhere along the line, Bushy, though, I have to admit, I was mainly focused on the

Starting point is 00:14:12 number of properties as opposed to the quality of properties. And I do openly say that to many people that I speak with, that I got caught up beating my chest and playing egos. And my goal was to get to 10 properties. And I didn't care how I got there. I didn't care what property that I purchased. I just wanted to get to 10. I wanted double digits. Like anyone, young and probably not the smartest. And I was listening to mentors, but really not listening. I thought I knew better. So that was, you know, that came back and bit me on the backside many years later with some underperforming assets in the portfolio, which were really purchased on the basis of having a number of properties, as opposed to the quality of properties that I was after.

Starting point is 00:14:57 Love it. And then, you know, as I smartened up a little bit, my income grew. I went into partnership as an accountant, I really started to learn more about myself, started to learn more about my journey, what I wanted from my property business, what I wanted from my own personal goals and objectives. And I started to sell down a lot of those underperforming properties that didn't meet my investment strategy anymore. And I started to educate myself further on properties that had favorable zoning, properties that I could add and manufacture equity to. I talk about an X factor many many times with my clients i look to buy properties always with an x factor so in in any

Starting point is 00:15:34 economical environment or political environment that is is that i have the opportunity and i've got the control to make money as opposed to waiting for you know for time to pass us by and create equity so my portfolio has transformed substantially to where it is today now 23 properties deep into the portfolio a lot of my properties uh have a substantial x factor and i've started to go back and um and revisit a lot of the earlier properties and i've knocked down i've rebuilt i've built duplexes i've built granny flats i've extended i've renovated i've subdivided and that's where i'm really creating a substantial amount of equity um to continue to grow the property to even a different strategy which will one day be you know much more development um much

Starting point is 00:16:21 more you know potential i'll say units but i won't definitely i'm not going to be in the league of harry triggerboff and meredith but working towards something like that is where my next strategy is taking me yeah i love that mate i'd love to get your uh feeling because i what i'm picking up is an awareness that your strategy actually needs to change over time that you initially it's about growth and then ultimately it's about cash flow that's going to fund the lifestyle and give you time back and i'm already hearing that uh the types of properties that you were buying in the locations of those properties has changed to both in alignment with the evolution of your knowledge, firstly,

Starting point is 00:17:00 but also your need, secondly. I'd love to sort of get your thoughts on, because I always hear this argument about, you know, are you investing for capital growth or are you investing for cash flow at two extremes of the spectrum? But I think there's a sweet spot in the middle there where you can actually effectively get good growth but also minimise the cost without getting into the scary sectors

Starting point is 00:17:27 of negative gearing. What's your thoughts on all that? Yeah, look, that's a debate that everybody – the debate still continues today but I generally tell people that, you know, capital growth and cash flow, they do go hand in hand, no doubt about it. You know, if you've got properties that are substantially cash deficit which are losing you lots of money and that could be for a number of different factors, whether it's tenanted or not tenanted, or the rental income's just quite

Starting point is 00:17:54 low, well then in some cases it may impact the capital growth and vice versa. We look at the commercial market over the last, say, two to three years. You look at commercial property 10 years prior to that when interest rates were quite high and rents were relatively stable, the market didn't move. Many people were transacting commercial properties for the same price they bought and sold it for 10 years ago. But as interest rates came down and commercial rents started to increase you know the market values exploded yeah commercial properties have seen you know 100 to 200 return in the last five years as as a substantial amount of cash flows getting obtained with interest rates being as low as they are so i i probably would say that if i was though

Starting point is 00:18:36 you know going back and chatting with myself many years ago you know looking at properties in good areas with supply issues meaning negative supply issues being that there's a lot of demand which will then increase capital growth that's that's an ideal way you don't have many costs maybe you don't have a family or a wife or a child you're probably living at home with mom and dad so you might be able to support potentially any deficit that's there in the earlier years yeah but what i've seen from my portfolio bushy over the years is that the longer i've held it my rents have tripled my interest rates have come down even we've seen rates rise my interest rates are still far substantially lower than they were 10 years ago and my positive income that i'm you

Starting point is 00:19:19 know obtaining a couple of the earlier properties and you know people may not believe this but you know my gross yields on these properties are sitting like at 30 percent sorry do you say 30 percent 30 percent what you know so you know you look at properties that i purchased you know for 180 190 000 they've they've tripled in value if not quadrupled in value and the rents were 170 a week and now the rents are like 650 to 700 a week you know so 35 000 annual rental income on a property that i've held for nearly 15 years that i paid 180 for it's it just shows the power of holding property totally you know you keep the loans relatively the same well then the net yield becomes a lot higher but in some cases we extract equity the loans go up and even though the yields

Starting point is 00:20:07 on cost are quite substantial the yield on loan might be quite lower yeah but you know there's many stories i've got clients who are still holding properties in bondi that they bought back in the 60s for 70 80 000 and the rents are about a thousand dollars a week yeah so on cost their yield's sitting at over 100 percent totally and that's a really good call because a lot of people like to focus on what's the current yield based on the on the current value but if you look got the money invested and return on that money and given how important time and and growth is to that equation it can be happening pretty substantially without you really getting around it so i had a very close mate of mine who was a you know dubbed a an economist himself yeah you

Starting point is 00:20:53 know he said to me jeremy the good thing about buying property or shares whether it may be is that you're buying it with a locked in cost cost doesn't increase once you buy it cost doesn't increase but your running income or running expenses may move with inflation as the dollar decreases you know your rent goes up with inflation which is always a positive so you know if you've locked in a cost in 2008 and you're looking at rents in 2021 with say an average target inflation of three to three and a half percent you're expecting a substantial amount of potential rental revenue in the future so that was something that resonated with me yeah and and that's something that i still hold very dear today with you know investment decisions i make in the future yeah

Starting point is 00:21:35 i love that mate tell us uh given you know 23 properties is a pretty substantial portfolio and and i but before i get into this i totally agree with you i think the old vanity exercise about the number of properties uh yeah it's it's good to brag about but the quality and the performance of of the value of your overall portfolio is what it's what it's really about but if we circle back on that given there's a whole range of different approaches that you touched on what's been your worst and your best investment and what have you learned from each of those? So worst investments would definitely have to be you know townhouses units in very low socioeconomic areas um i found myself handing out a lot of money um to repairs and maintenance

Starting point is 00:22:30 to down times when the properties weren't rented um during you know substantial amount of work that needed to be done between each tenancy so again that was about focusing on the number of properties rather than the quality yeah um you know i felt that was a hindrance in my portfolio and then since then obviously moved a lot of these properties on um and the best properties that I've purchased have been properties where I've been able to have an X factor attached to it, Bushy, and I've been able to execute what my intended business plan on the property was, whether it could be as little as a granny flat or a renovation to much more than that, such as a duplex or a small townhouse. Yeah, let's drill into X factor because

Starting point is 00:23:09 everyone's got a slightly different definition and understanding of what that is. What does an X factor in a property mean to you? An X factor in a property means to me that I control its destiny. And that destiny could be, as I mentioned to you before, as little as a renovation to increase rent or potential equity, granny flats, subdivision, something that you can take control of the money that you make from that property, rather than just sitting back on an armchair and praying that you've paid the right price and you bought it at the right time. And that's where I see probably a lot of people. And it's good to have those first couple properties as their foundation properties where there might be just very low risk potentially no x factor

Starting point is 00:23:49 get you a good taste into the market but if you're buying a number of those properties over time bushy what i've found out and what i've seen personally with my own portfolio is if i can't manufacture genuine rental increases at a drop of a hat the state government land taxes that i pay really creep into my overheads and significantly take away a large portion of my rental income i've got a great war story that i share with people that i've got a client with 35 million dollars worth of unencumbered property bushy now a lot of a lot of his property is in the north shore and north sydney and eastern suburbs so we're talking four to five million dollar properties yeah rental incomes are terrible because they're very old most of the properties

Starting point is 00:24:32 probably have about a 900 to 1500 rent per week but by far the biggest benefactor of his property portfolio is the new south wales state government who take in about three times land tax then he's what his net income is so if his land tax is about half a million dollars a year um and his net rental income is only about 150 000 so he's built up a 35 million dollar portfolio for 150 to a couple hundred gain a couple hundred k net income where the new south wales state government is taken in more than double that through land tax so they're the little things that you know many people won't find out until they start to build a larger portfolio and again if you can't add a drop of the hat change the you know the income terms of your portfolio then you know you you're

Starting point is 00:25:23 just working very hard and your portfolio is working very hard but not for you who for all the government stakeholders in the yes everyone else is on the gravy train but you are still slugging slugging it out and doing it tough you take the risk and other ones take the reward so you know they're the little things that you've got to try to start thinking about not too early in your portfolio but they need to be thought about at one stage and again that's where we get involved as accountants to make sure that you know we're looking at these things we're assessing you know the feasibility and the viability of the portfolio we're looking at the different structures it could be that a different asset class might be needed to assist with the cash

Starting point is 00:25:59 flow and with that particular client there you know having such a large portfolio value and such a small amount of net rental income there's a large risk that he's taking with a lot of these properties being quite old and mostly at land value you know we're restructuring a lot of things along with a financial planner that he's using to you know just get him get him into some different assets where there are substantially larger returns and no pesky land taxes involved So, you know, a bit of restructuring into commercial. There are some equities that they're looking at as well, but also looking at the portfolio to see, well, where can they increase the rental income? Yeah, I love that.

Starting point is 00:26:37 Absolutely love that. Let's swing back to your exercise. I'd love for you to paint a picture of what your ideal life vision and ideal lifestyle looks like and what are you investing in to make that happen? so i like to tell people liberation is what i'm after as a an investor or property business owner now have i probably reached that liberation just yet many would argue probably i have i still feel that i've got lots more that i want to achieve not so much from a money purpose point of view but also just more so from my own personal well-being i want to make sure i can get there it's a challenge. So I think very openly, Bushy, I'm probably at that stage now where we've got a

Starting point is 00:27:20 very successful business, a great team of nearly 63 colleagues. I've got a great property business, which has provided me a passive income and given me lots of opportunities to do many things. But now it's about taking that next step and creating something that I probably would have dreamt about 10 years ago um so that's that's my goals now um and that's where i'm heading to and uh yeah mate i'm very proud of of what i've been able to do and also very proud of of many things that i get to be involved with many other clients and many other people's journeys as well i love it love it while we're on that subject then as he's sort of transitioning into that that liberate stage and and this will be useful to a lot listening in on this because what i find

Starting point is 00:28:07 and i'll be interested in your thoughts on this as well a lot of uh property investors think long and hard about the early stage in the accumulation stage there's not a lot of thought been put into transitioning from what i call capital growth into that tax effective income stream that's ultimately going to fund the significance part of their lifestyle ongoing. Tell us about how your investment strategy is going to change to enable that liberation and how others need to start thinking about that transition stage in terms of converting the domestic

Starting point is 00:28:45 that they're creating into that effective income stream that's going to free life up and look after them. yeah so it goes back to a little bit of my strategy so again i built up a strong portfolio and again bought with x factors where i possibly can and then i go back to revisit those properties after i've quite comfortable where things are and that's part of my consolidation phase because if you're always on an endless endless travel of growth there will be things that you forget along the way and stilts tend to fall and businesses that grow too fast tend not to survive the next day yeah so it's i consolidate you know here and there and make sure that you know all my boxes are

Starting point is 00:29:25 ticked and then i'll go back to the portfolio and try to execute some of the strategies and the plans that i had for those properties when i bought them because there's no point you know leaving juice in the orange for one day the orange to go rotten so i've learned that lesson before where there's zoning changes a property i purchased was ripe for a duplex and all of a sudden council came in with a new land and environmental plan and a new development control plan all of a sudden my duplex property was no longer a duplex property so i learned that lesson very quickly that you know you don't want to hold too many of these development properties that you may not be able to develop due to time constraints finance constraints or potentially external government

Starting point is 00:30:07 constraints or local council constraints so you kind of want to make sure you jump onto these things quickly yeah and also what people are starting to learn now is that many people who have held development properties given the way that the construction industry is and the cost associated with constructing you know they've lost two three four hundred thousand dollars purely due to price hikes yes where if they built that property three years ago it would have cost them three four hundred thousand dollars less yeah so i try not to let things go too long i come back and always improve and that will improve the cash flow which is improved borrowing capacity improves the gross asset value as well bushy so i've got a much larger numerator working on a

Starting point is 00:30:47 denominator so the compounding returns much larger because if we're focused focusing on a seven percent growth well if i can build up the growth asset pool the value i've got seven percent growing on a much larger asset base exactly exactly so they're probably the things that i'm from an x factor point of view what i'm looking at and how i go back and you know attain the value from those properties um and i you know i do encourage other people as well you know don't if are you a land banker um or are you an investor property business slash property business owner uh land banking is very tough mate i've seen many people um who've done it well um but for me for the many people who've done it well i've seen even more people lose um and you just don't want to get caught

Starting point is 00:31:34 sometimes with an asset that potentially is not producing income to help you sustain it in the long term yeah beautifully said mate beautifully said well that's a great segue into sort of deep diving into property accounting and and associated tax matters etc yeah apart from what you've just mentioned what are some of the other mistakes that you see a lot of investors making um they look it's a tough one because everyone's got a different circumstances of why they've made different mistakes but i think the main thing is is that people that they're not looking at the numbers close enough, Bushy, they look at the gross rent, but then they tend not to look at the net expenses that will still remain there and how that impacts the gross rent. So I've

Starting point is 00:32:20 seen many clients who have purchased properties on 10% yields, and we're talking very regional areas of Australia. But by the time you take into account, again, they bought the property for 100 grand, it gets 10% return, $10,000 gross rent, but you focus on $2,000 council rates. Well, straight away that's two percent of your gross rent gone exactly another fifteen hundred dollars of your water rates insurance is two grand all of a sudden you've got five percent of your ten percent gone out the door yeah then you've got to add property management fees repairs and maintenance unfortunately a kitchen in a hundred thousand dollar house will probably cost you the same as a kitchen in a three hundred thousand dollar house yeah right um and i see a lot of

Starting point is 00:32:59 these net yields for some of these properties actually go to negative net yields and that's before interest rates are even paid, or interest is paid. So I try to really encourage people, and I do it myself all the time, what is the underlying net yield? Because many people who bought property in that boom that we've just recently gone through across Australia were buying properties at a 2.5% to 3% gross yield. Sounds all right when interest rates are low, but you take into account the costs associated with running that property, then all of a sudden, and the net yield comes to about 1.5% to 1.2%. Spot on.

Starting point is 00:33:34 Spot on. Variable costs are rising and exploding that you can't control. Then all of a sudden it's pulling big chunks of money out of your pocket and then affects the sustainability of actually hanging on to the property to achieve the long-term growth goals in the exercise anyway. Yeah, and you're really banking then on just one, absolutely one investment strategy for the property, which is capital growth.

Starting point is 00:34:00 yeah so you know i really try to look closely at the numbers with myself and clients to ensure that they understand potentially what the net return is yeah um and then you know from there they're able to look at how they can balance their portfolio by looking at properties where they can get a better net yield or you know to help support potentially a property that they feel which would have a better capital growth so i think it's complementing your properties in the portfolio to i suppose to complement what you're after from a cash flow position as well yeah and i don't think people do that enough i don't think they complement properties in their portfolio to give themselves a sustainable and viable outcome in the future yeah well said that's it's looking

Starting point is 00:34:43 at the overall picture not just the individual property and how it's collectively going to achieve the goals and support support each other on the way through exactly right because they're all cogs in a machine bushy and we all know and i'm not a in an engineer i can't comment too much on how it works but i can tell you that you know a couple bag cogs in a machine could almost ruin the whole thing yeah um but if each cog whether they're large or small is complementing the one next to it then you've got a very efficient machine working for you 100 agree if we flip to the other side then from the stakes to you know what you believe are the keys to successful investment uh what are they from your perspective mate understanding finance is the most important

Starting point is 00:35:23 i think a key to my success um because buying property it's a very crucial part of what we do no doubt about it the right property is important but where people can't get from three to four or four to five properties it's not because they don't want to or the desire is not there it's that they haven't surrounded themselves with good people from a finance perspective that can give them all the ins and outs yeah um so for me i really tried to understand how finance worked the biggest stakeholder in my portfolio believe it or not is not me it's the bank exactly the bank is the biggest stakeholder or many banks are the biggest stakeholder in my portfolio without them i can't achieve the things i've been able to achieve and i won't be able to achieve

Starting point is 00:36:06 the things that i want to achieve so i always encourage people that yes get good at buying properties no doubt about it get but get even better at putting finance together and that's that's the key to success for businesses key to success for many property is successful property investors is they know how to put the deal together from a finance perspective if you can get a bank to back you or you can make your numbers look favorable from a banking perspective you're good as gold and and you're unstoppable i say to everybody if i had a access to a billion dollars i could turn it into two yeah i just need someone to give me that billion bushy to start you're well on the road mate there's no doubt about that so that's that's probably the main

Starting point is 00:36:50 thing key to success for me is understanding finance um and you can do that yourself you can do that with a very good strategic mortgage broker or finance specialist and they'll help you give you the ins and the outs of you know where the where what properties are unfortunately lacking in the borrowing capacity calculations how structures come into play i've really educated myself on you know buying in different structures whether it's a self-managed super fund or trust i've understood different banking policies especially from a trust perspective there are some banks out there where if you have a trust that's positively geared not requiring any further capital from the trustee or the beneficiaries and it's self-sustaining then you know in most

Starting point is 00:37:31 cases depending on the entity that you're buying the next property in they'll ignore the loans in that trust so that's a way that myself and again many other successful investors have been able to overcome the hurdles of um of finance and overcome the hurdles of borrowing and and continue to buy so it's it's such a very important part of your property investment and property business journey that you understand how finance works get very good at it um and and that should contrast and work very closely in hand with you buying the property as well yeah and i love that mate if we focus on the the qualities that you see and the approaches that separate successful investors from the rest but what does that look like from your momentum is is probably the biggest thing

Starting point is 00:38:18 um i see that the myself and again other very successful inventors will investors will continue the momentum uh i feel that when the you know life gets in the way and people have a very long break they tend not to get back into it um because it's it is it's not it's not easy being in a property business and property investor it's very stressful you're dealing with tenants you're dealing with property managers you're dealing with tradesmen you're dealing with many many different facets that go into owning property and i feel that if you sometimes take the foot off the pedal it's very hard to start the engine up again yeah good point um and then and then good professionals around you i feel that you've got to you got to make sure you keep connected with the good

Starting point is 00:38:56 professionals around you and and learn from them and continue education the property market changes very quickly i've seen that with you know even the gold coast area of queensland you know for five or six or seven years it was a very flat market um you know in the mid 2000s post gfc and in the last couple years if not three years it's almost doubled in value yeah now if you looked at the gold coast market six years ago you never would have dreamed that it's at the price it is today but if you're looking at it more regularly you would see it move or you would see the signs that it was ready to move yeah so being involved still no matter where you are in your journey just keeping a finger on the pulse is always important yeah spot on love that um

Starting point is 00:39:40 you've touched on uh trust a little bit i'd love to do a bit of a dive on different ownership entities and and when and why you would use different structures so if we we sort of uh And I'll perhaps share what I've seen over the years and get your thoughts on it. But normally I've seen a lot of investors, they'll start using the joint tenants portfolio and look at the different percentages of ownership to improve the cash flow side of the equation so that they can afford to hold on to the properties. Once they've soaked up all of the tax benefits that come out of that sort of joint tenant structure they then shift into trusts and similar mechanisms where you know most of the claimables

Starting point is 00:40:29 are actually quarantined within the trust and then they'll also look potentially at self-managed super as an option to hold properties long term because of the obvious tax benefits both while they're holding and then post retirement age i'd love to get your thoughts on the pros and cons of and when you think is the right time to use which sort of ownership structure to get the best results. So I'll dive a little bit into what a solicitor will advise, but joint tenants, it means that the registered proprietors or the people that are buying the property own the property jointly. So the property is automatically transferred to the registered survivor. So let's say for instance, husband and wife, very common, they buy their own home.

Starting point is 00:41:12 Under joint tenants, I pass away and my wife gets the control of the property without having to go through probate or a will. Tenants in common is mainly, again, that's more of a fixed proprietorship. So let's say, again, husband and wife under tenants in common own a property, that means they have to nominate the percentage, whether it's 50-50, 60-40, 70-30, you know, all the way up to 99-1. So I try to steer clients away from when they're investing in property to stay away from joint tenants or tenants in common because of the land tax implications bushy bushy um you know in many many states you know there are land tax thresholds in place and when you buy a property under joint tenants or tenants in common for instance it's

Starting point is 00:41:55 seen as a partnership from a land tax threshold point of view yeah so many people who have done that are paying land tax prematurely if they were to buy the purchase 100 in their name and 100 potentially in their husband or wife's name then you know you're getting the maximum value from the land tax threshold that you possibly can yeah so i'm a big fan and advising clients that when you are buying investment property stay away from joint tenants or tenants in common no issues on your own home your ppor of course but from an investment perspective that hidden hidden hand called land tax can really come in and and take the money away from you prematurely so that's something to consider yeah the just just on that because i what that's sort of suggesting is that

Starting point is 00:42:37 that probably trusts are a better place to do it. But we've seen states like South Australia, for example, invoke see-through provisions that don't stop at the trust. They look at who the beneficiaries and the directors and the trustees of the trust are and then apply the full-toed odds on land tax to that. What's your thoughts around that? Yeah, look, and I think that things will change substantially

Starting point is 00:43:03 with many other states. We've seen recently how Queensland tried to change the way that they calculate land tax by bringing in a total Australian land value as a proratament to their Queensland property. We can only work with, obviously, the legislation that we have today. So for many clients out there looking to invest in, say, New South Wales, for instance, would you go into a trust straightaway before you bought property in your own name as an investment in New South Wales? Probably not because New South Wales doesn't have a land tax threshold for trusts. melbourne's got only a ten thousand dollar threshold queensland's pretty strong at about 300 to 350 by memory wa shares the same land tax threshold with an individual threshold which is 350k so strategically you've got to look at trust not just from an asset protection point of view

Starting point is 00:43:48 not just from a tax minimization point of view but also from a land tax point of view as well so there's a lot of things that we juggle when we try to work out well whose entity which entity should we provide it in, whether it's individual name or whether it's a trust name or company name, unit trust or, for that instance, a self-managed super fund. But there will be changes to legislation. Definitely land tax is a very big income earner for many states, especially ones which are very pro-investors.

Starting point is 00:44:18 Yeah, absolutely. One of the issues and one of the challenges I've seen investors who bought properties in trusts is because all of the claimants that are effectively quarantined within the trust, the holding cost of the property effectively increases pretty substantially. Yeah, what are your thoughts around, you know, how to mitigate that? Yeah, the holding cost would, you know, for a trust compared

Starting point is 00:44:42 to individual would be the cost, number one, cost of establishing the trust, cost of running the trust, compliance-wise. Yeah. And, you know, many people think that you've just got to purchase one property per trust. Not necessarily true. You'll see many, many literature out there that suggests that you should do that.

Starting point is 00:44:58 But me personally, having many properties in many trusts that I've got, I don't have one per trust. I've got sometimes in some cases, two or three per trust. I've only got one property in one trust at the moment because of the plan attached to it. I'm going to turn that one property into five and hold them all. So it makes sense to have five properties in a trust as opposed to 10 if I were to have more in there.

Starting point is 00:45:21 Yeah. Because I'm a big fan of still asset protection. things do go wrong all the time totally we're not perfect and we need to make sure that all our eggs aren't in one basket so you know you've got to you've got to sometimes take a little bit of the hit potentially early on um for the long-term gains and again i've mentioned quite earlier before that there's many things that i did 10 years ago which i'm you know i'm taking advantage of today um we know where properties are purchased in a trust which were negatively geared and it burned me that I couldn't utilize a negative gearing against my own taxable income

Starting point is 00:45:54 as an employee at that stage. But those properties now are substantially positively geared, not requiring any further capital from me or other beneficiaries to sustain it. And now the banks look at that debt and don't even take the debt into consideration when I'm looking at purchasing new properties and new entities. So it definitely is from a long-term perspective can be quite favourable it's just making sure that you've got that long-term goal with that property in that structure yeah now if you spot on it's it's applying the right energy to the right strategy and structure it's a beautiful way to to sum that up um one of the sort of mechanisms that sort of comes in and out of vogue at various times is the old for employees in particular is the old

Starting point is 00:46:38 payg withholding tax variation to effectively improve their holding cost cash flow yeah what are your thoughts on on that mechanism mate i i i'm not a huge fan of it because i've seen many people who who do the pyg variation and often get it wrong because it's an estimation of our costs yeah um and unfortunately at the end of the year they're left with a bit of a bill shock because they've got too much benefit throughout the year yeah um i feel as a as an accountant that if you can't afford to hold the property under normal circumstances where you know your employer's withholding the right amount of tax from your income then there's got to be some there's some deeper issues there that you need to consider is this the right property for you um so i if it's

Starting point is 00:47:28 needed in and there has been many circumstances where clients have requested it and they have needed it from a cash flow perspective but i feel that if you're really having to reduce the amount of tax that your employee withholds from you weekly to hold your property portfolio, that actually could be a disadvantage. Yeah. It could be stopping you from buying better properties. Yeah, yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:51 I guess just sort of tweaking the edges, one of the side benefits given our finance-breaking division of the know-how business by using the PAYG, Withholding Tax Variation, meaning you're effectively getting more money into your account every pay rather than a lump sum at the end of the year. That's sort of been channelled into offset accounts. The impact on debt reduction can be pretty substantial

Starting point is 00:48:17 because of the frequency of doing it rather than a lump sum exercise. Yeah, no, definitely right. Could be, 100%. Definitely right. But, you know, if you've got non-cash deductions which are aiding your tax benefit or PYG variation, that does help, no doubt about it.

Starting point is 00:48:32 But if you haven't got, you know, non-cash deductions such as depreciation aid in it i think i think you need to look at some other things as to why the property's cash flow is so poor um and the question then comes into it is you know am i glued to my job because of the asset that i've got is it sucking too much out so i think it's a good strategy it's a good strategy if you need it if you use it wisely i just feel bushy from my personal experience many people they get it wrong from an estimation point of view and they're left with a bill shock yes and I see it more as a disadvantage as opposed to being able to sustain the portfolio under normal circumstances and and look if there's some benefit at the end of the

Starting point is 00:49:12 year that you get back in the form of a refund it's a bonus and you know goes towards potentially the holding cost for the next year yeah no I love it yeah that's really really good insights around that let's switch to some of the other sort of regular commentary exercise I see around the place and you know i see a lot of investors uh you know you'll talk to one or other of the partners and they'll say i would rather pay off our home loan first before investing what's what's your uh response to that one yeah so i think it's about the use of the money so for instance and again it's a bit contradictory to what are we talking about for my own personal circumstances because i have paid off my home loan and i use some some properties that are sold in the last

Starting point is 00:49:54 12 months in the height and boom to do that. But that was just a tick in one of my boxes that I wanted to achieve. But before that, I didn't pay off my home loan. I would use an offset account to help reduce my interest and park my cash in there in the interim. But it's all about using the money wisely. So if you're paying off your home loan aggressively, saving yourself potentially three, three and a half, 4% interest, it's the opportunity cost on the other side with the use of that capital yeah um so you know for me when i had you know surplus of capital that i had from selling some properties uh in the boom it was it was the right decision it was what i wanted to do when i had the capital to do it i wasn't going to hinder or hamper my future goals but definitely

Starting point is 00:50:36 prior to then as i mentioned before no i would seriously consider that that capital that i'm directing towards paying off my home quicker well is there a much more efficient way to even accelerate that process to pay it off quicker which is investing that money wisely in a different asset and potentially being able to cut 10 years further off the home loan so i think people need to understand the power of a dollar the power of leverage and being able to borrow and what that money potentially could be used for which is facilitating and aiding in another growth asset or another asset which is working towards you know a different income stream yeah i totally agree and i I run some numbers myself that pretty clearly demonstrate that by investing wisely in the right sort of assets, you can actually funnel that and channel that in a way that's actually going to enable you to pay off the home loan far earlier than what you would have wanted.

Starting point is 00:51:31 I've met many, many clients, Bushy, that I've met who still to this day don't even own a home. They've got eight or nine investment properties they're renting where they want to live. and they could they could very easily liquidate the entire portfolio and purchase a four or five million dollar property even after all the taxes have been paid but for them you know they can see the power of a compounding return of having multiple good assets in their portfolio that buying their own home it's just going to actually put them back as opposed to put them you know push them forward well i'm a living example of that jeremy yeah having been divorced in my early 30s starting again from ground zero where we became rent investors in the 90s before rent investing

Starting point is 00:52:14 was even a thing and it really has enabled us to buy the Taj Mahal at the end of the journey rather than put a noose around our neck at the start and then hamstring any other opportunity as a result. Yeah correct I mean I've worked with many older clients as well and clients that have older family and it's funny you know they get to that age of 80 in their home they're not living in their home anymore the family home they've either sold it moved in with the children or they're in nursing homes so you know we we do sometimes work towards having that Taj Mahal early in our life which is great no doubt about it it's funny where we end up at the end of the curve mate yeah totally agree mate absolutely agree mate you've touched on some great subjects

Starting point is 00:52:56 there are there any other strategy structure or tax and accounting tips that you think is worth making us aware yeah 100 the big one super i always tell people don't underestimate how super forms a major part of your portfolio and it could be building up your industry super fund during the years um or it could be accelerating or it could be pivoting it into a self-managed super fund you know i we manage here in our firm over 400 super funds with a large portion of those super funds buying and owning property and you know they've done very well obviously everyone's done quite well in property over the last couple years but nevertheless you know don't don't forego super it's a very powerful tool many people ask me bushy they go jeremy how do i pay no tax i don't

Starting point is 00:53:41 want to pay any tax and i say super and they say to me oh no i don't want to touch super because you can't touch it till you retire many of my very wealthy clients have very large super funds yeah and they've controlled their super via an smsf i'm sorry my apologies man and they've invested in stocks or equities or managed funds etfs and property and you know they've developed a very strong income stream which at retirement phase and some of these super funds are they're getting very good net yields because there's no tax to pay on it yeah and even throughout the accumulation phase of super tax is only 15 and on the sale of an asset with a one-third discount accompanied with the sale of that asset if it's held longer than 12 months of course it's a 10 tax rate yeah

Starting point is 00:54:26 Where are you going to get a 10% tax rate on the sale of an asset that you've held longer than 12 months, a 15% fixed tax rate on earnings, and 0% tax rate when you transition your super fund from accumulation to retirement? So for me, I'm aggressively building up super because if I might have $3 or $4 million worth of unincumbered assets in super, and that could be generating $200,000 or $300,000 of income. And that's after tax because there's no tax at retirement. To get the same level of income outside super, you might have to generate five, $600,000 of income. So you can see that the treadmill doesn't have to move as fast to obtain and achieve the same result. So I think a very

Starting point is 00:55:09 balanced approach to the way you structure your assets, the structure of your property portfolio is important. And I think it's knowledge. It's just people don't know about it. And what we don't know about we can't execute so anyone listening you really got to make sure you educate yourself on super don't be afraid um you know that you won't get it to your retirement because you know there are a lot of good things there is that pot of gold essentially at the end of the rainbow when you do get there yeah love it mate uh it's the old uh delay gratification exercise mate it seems too far away so people aren't interested yet if they really looked at the the benefits to their their life overall massive benefits of making super a big

Starting point is 00:55:51 part of the exercise but really enjoyed digging those subjects we're only really touched the sides and we'll get you back at another point to drill into some of those but given you're so active in the property exercise and given there's a lot of doom and gloom talk still running through the media around the whole property sphere what's your read on the future of property in the short to make him so uh look we definitely have massive supply issues no doubt about it we're getting you know the better part of anywhere between 20 to 40 000 students a month entering in the country um i think immigration is tipped to be at 290 or 260 with a couple years of an elevated amount so i definitely still believe we're very undersupplied from a property side of things

Starting point is 00:56:35 which will aid growth and potentially aid rental returns as well um i'm seeing you know sentiment been a little bit lower obviously due to interest rates but if you very if you understand your numbers and you understand your budget and you understand you know the mechanics of how your portfolio is working i actually think it's a great time to invest and i look back to where i made my money where i mostly made my money where i both mostly bought property was you know post gfc 2018-19 royal commission and i see myself really accelerating my portfolio over the next six months leading up to potentially june of 2023 so it goes back to that counter cyclical style of its counter cyclical style of investing which is you know don't try to invest and beat

Starting point is 00:57:20 the crowds wait till they all go and that's when you can come in and you can buy property and at the moment the crowds are gone you know i'm not i'm not in competition with a substantially large amount of people now when i'm offering on properties which is good that's what i waited for as an investor um so i think it's quite positive the outlook in the property market's quite positive there might be a little bit more couple little dips to come bushy with some interest rate rises for people that just haven't got their numbers right they haven't adjusted their lifestyle to an increased repayment on their home loans yeah but for the people that can pivot and pivot quite quickly quickly i think there's a huge amount of success out there for the bold and for

Starting point is 00:57:59 the people that are educated that have done their numbers um and understood you know the pros cons and the risks associated with it and the only way to do that quite openly is is to be very intimate with how your portfolio is running yeah i love it mate uh beautifully summed up but i'm gonna switch into what i like to refer as the ambush round the old fastball podcast questions that everyone gets a blindfold cigarette and the audience loves to get your words of wisdom on uh first of those mate is what's your favorite quote and why ah mate favorite quote success doesn't come without hard work um that's that is my favorite quote and and i kind of remember who told it to me i think it was one of my very old old clients who still is a client today he's probably in his 75s working

Starting point is 00:58:48 uh little german man um but he told me jeremy success doesn't come without hard work and i i you know i say that to everybody now if you think you're going to get given something it's not going to happen uh there's not many lotto winners out there so you know better put your head down your bum up and you work your backside off and um and work towards a bigger picture love it love it mate uh totally ascribed to that one we turn to the sort of literary field for a minute what's the top book that you'd recommend we read and why um oh mate that's a good question um i've read so many books recently during the covid lockdown um i'm just trying to think how to make i can't remember the name of the book mate you really put me on the spot but

Starting point is 00:59:33 there was a book i read i think it was how to make friends in business um i think that was the title it may have been the thesis behind it but it was a great book because it just it walked you through that everybody you meet is a potential client and it doesn't have to be from a business perspective but a future business partner um so i i really you know really use those words every day in my life you know when i speak to a real estate agent for instance it's how can i make this guy a potential client one day or a potential business partner and a business partner meaning that he's there to make money to sell property i'm here to make money to buy property how do we fuse that together um so i think they're really approach that book inspires me to approach things in a

Starting point is 01:00:16 different manner. Yeah, it's a great way to look at life generally. Back on the investments to you then, what's both the worst and the best piece of investment advice that you've ever received? Look, I'll probably speak from experience. Don't look at the number of properties in your portfolio. It means nothing in the end. You could have 10 properties, you could have five properties, you could have 100 properties. The number probably represents a bit of a headache. it's all about the quality and value of your portfolio so i think if anyone's listening and and thinking about well you know what what can i learn from other people forget about the number of properties it means nothing 50 by 50 20 by 50 it's all crap what you've got to be looking at is

Starting point is 01:01:00 quality quality over quantity will every day win and i suppose another piece of advice i'll give someone is while investing in residential property is very emotional you've got to sometimes look a little bit deeper at the property itself consider what the business plan attached to it is approach it with a business plan look at the numbers and if it still stacks up it's probably a great property to buy so business plan is is paramount to a successful portfolio totally agree mate absolutely totally agree yeah i wish there was more investors would adopt that approach uh let's turn to uh you know any personal happy habits rewarding rituals or daily disciplines uh which ones do you employ that you think's contributed most to your investment success today so definitely creating

Starting point is 01:01:47 small rewards along the journey is important um so you know recently small rewards that i've given myself is you know built up the portfolio sold a couple properties paid off the house with some some capital gain that i made and bought myself a luxury car i'm not massive on cars but that was always a goal of mine and I had to hit a couple milestones first to get there so I think rewards are very important and the big thing that I've learned again from many other clients is balance I've seen many divorces bushy in my in my career and and the one thing that I ask the clients what happened is that you know potentially the partners went in just different ways yeah so I think getting that balance right and being successful at home will lead to be very successful as an investor

Starting point is 01:02:37 and business alike totally agree it's an absolute foundation stone mate there's no question and very expensive and damaging one if you get it wrong mate i can tell you that from firsthand experience many years ago uh no that's awesome mate so just to summarize our awesome conversation today mate what would be your key takeaways for both current and aspiring investors so you've heard me reference to property investment as a property business you know when people are buying a business for three four five hundred grand they do an absolute amount of due diligence i mean overkill on due diligence it's funny when people buy a three four five hundred thousand dollar property they don't seem to have the same level of due

Starting point is 01:03:21 diligence so treat your property transaction treat your property purchase as a business treat your property portfolio as a business and like any business the more time that you give it the more care that you give it the more reward you get from it so that's probably a key takeaway point and a success that's been in my portfolio many other successful investors property business as opposed to a property investment yeah it's a beautiful way to to sum it up mate so like been a great conversation uh you're obviously achieving some fantastic things what's what's new and next to you then man um so mate at the moment it's i've got a number of headaches at the moment going on so a number of builds that are happening at once yeah um so i've got some

Starting point is 01:04:03 duplexes on the on the beach down the south coast that are getting done i've got a couple granny flats i've got a um a small townhouse development getting done in melbourne so for me there's a lot of building risk going on um these are builds that i just had to push through with um you know councils will all fees are all being paid builders deposits are all being paid i can't let covid stop me um it's just a challenge that i need to overcome so for me at the moment that's taking up a lot of my time and creating a lot of great extra gray hairs that i didn't need but again it's it's a stakeholder they are stakeholders in my portfolio it's about managing those stakeholders yeah and finding solutions i can tell you now bushy i've got many fires going

Starting point is 01:04:44 on at once um and you know i can sit there and watch everything burn or find a hose put the fire away and find the solution and move on and and keep trugging away yeah love it mate love your attitude for opportunity rather than problems uh mate uh for those of us that have really resonated with your message today yeah how can the listeners find out more and get involved with you yeah so you can definitely reach out to us um our website khipartners.com.au there's a various different amount of services we provide um so you definitely can reach out to us there and you know feel free to um to leave a contact on the website brilliant mate uh we've been great conversation i think this is the start of many mate uh looking forward to having you back

Starting point is 01:05:29 on here to deep dive on various subjects and get you uh more involved in the realty talk show which uh we sort of focus in on short sharp segments that really add a lot of value but uh Really enjoyed your insights and looking forward to continuing the conversation. Appreciate your time, Bushy. Thank you, mate. Thanks, mate. Thanks for getting invested. Now, here's three easy ways you can take action to start making it happen.

Starting point is 01:05:58 To ensure you build momentum and start living by design, not default, so that you're following your freedom formula. Firstly, subscribe to this podcast, if you haven't already, and keep the weekly inspiration coming. Secondly, get a copy of my book, Get Invested, for free and find out what it takes for you to invest in living more and working less. Just visit bushimartin.com.au forward slash books or knowhowproperty.com.au or click on the links in the show notes.

Starting point is 01:06:28 And thirdly, join me and the Get Invested community. Each month, I send a free and exclusive email full of practical self-help and wealth wisdom that our current Freedom Fighter subscribers can't wait to get. Just visit bushimartin.com.au, scroll to the bottom of the page, and sign up. And there you have it. In three easy steps, you're on your way to dusting off your forgotten dreams and making them a reality.

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