Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Lisa Bondarenko on what it takes to thrive, not just survive

Episode Date: August 25, 2019

Sustainable success lies at the intersection of your self, your health and then your wealth. And if you don’t master yourself then you can forget about the other two ‘ealths’. This is where today’s guest comes in. Lisa Bondarenko is an acclaimed counsellor, author, speaker and just an awesome human! Early on, she spent many years enjoying a successful corporate career in Human Resources, Marketing & Event Management. But like all of us, there was a moment in life that forced Lisa to take a step outside of safety and to jump into something new. So as a mature age student she walked away from her successful career to immerse herself at university for four years in all things “social science and counselling”. There she was able to solidify her lifetime love of human wiring and behaviour, with knowledge and understanding that has equipped her with a stronger and deeper framework. A framework that helps her to work with individuals, groups and organisations in health and wellbeing from a holistic mental, emotional and physical perspective.  Lisa now drives her successful business Eshé Counselling where she specialises in infertility, grief and loss, self-esteem and marriage and relationship counselling. In early 2014, she launched Adelaide’s first ever health retreat, Mind Heart Body - working with some of Adelaide’s leading experts in health and wellbeing. Lisa helps you to live consciously and proactively, as well as develop increased self-awareness, insight and skills to not only survive but thrive in today’s challenging world. She has also written a fantastic book called ‘Silent Tears’ – her personal account of the highs, lows and everything in between that is experienced by a growing number of families facing IVF and fertility crises.  It’s a story that has you laughing and crying at the same time. It’s a real life road map for surviving, overcoming and finding hope amidst pain and despair. Lisa is a proud wife, mumma bear, blogger, author, public speaker, budding musician with an awesome singing voice, a lover of fresh flowers and a talented power shopper! Lisa always tells it how it is with humble and side-splitting humour, so if you are looking for that catalyst for your courage then you’re really going to enjoy this great conversation with Lisa ‘Bondy’ Bondarenko.   Lisa's book recommendation: The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman Get Invested is the podcast dedicated to time poor professionals who want to work less and live more. Join Bushy Martin, one of Australia’s top 10 property specialists, as he and his influential guests share know-how on the ways investing in property can unlock the life you always dreamed about and secure your financial future. Remember to subscribe on your favourite podcast player, and if you're enjoying the show please leave us a review. Find out more about Get Invested here https://bushymartin.com.au/get-invested-podcast/  Want to connect with Bushy? Get in touch here https://bushymartin.com.au/contact/  This show is produced by Apiro Media - http://apiropodcasts.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

One of those things, there can be the financial risk, there can be the mental risk, there can be emotional risk, there can be physical risk. But if we don't risk, then what happens, and this is my own humble opinion, is we flatline really early. And I'm seeing more and more people flatlining or being, you know, slave to their circumstance. But even in all circumstances, like, you know, we all have choice.

Welcome to the Get Invested Podcast, where we share great conversations with experts from all walks of life to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills, and their money, and the benefits that this has created. You see, the truth is that everyone invests. Every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy, and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad and sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you to start living by design,

not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen, not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less, and leave a living legacy by investing now. Listen to the show to discover the top tips on how to get started, make the most of your investment journey, and ultimately to be living your dream, not someone else's. More episodes can be found on iTunes or at bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. Thanks for listening and now let's get invested. Welcome Freedom Fighters. How courageous and brave are you? Do you tread boldly where no one it has been before? Or do your fears of all of the what-if and maybe risks hold you back

and numb you into inaction? Or worse still, do you jump in boots and all and as soon as it gets tough or you encounter the inevitable problems, do you bail, take a hit and then never do it again? Well, in my humble opinion, if you're not challenging and stretching yourself every day, then you're not learning. And if you're not learning, then you're not growing. And if you're not growing, then you're not actually living. You're actually dying on the vine. You're going backwards without even knowing it. You see, we have it so good and so comfortable in this country that we seem to have forgotten how to take calculated risks that will take our life from good to great. I believe we

need to step outside of our comfort zone. And as Tony Anagore puts it, leaving your comfort zone is like leaving your house on a freezing cold day. You might as well take 20 steps rather than just one. You're going to be freezing regardless of how far you go. Now, to illustrate this better, let me share with you a great story called Entering the Law that Dr. Franz Kafka told over a century ago that I've unashamedly borrowed from one of my respected mentors, Neil Connor. Now the law is a metaphor for the promised land, that land of milk and honey where you finally have the time to do all the things that matter and escape from the drudgery, the conformity and the entrapment of the never-ending treadmill. Now in the story, a man travels many

days and many nights through the harsh barren desert because he wants to enter the law. now he finally reaches the castle wall that protects the promised land of the law and the gate that allows you to enter and at the castle gate that he's traveled so far and so hard to get to there's a gatekeeper and the man says to the gatekeeper i've sacrificed everything to get here so will you give me permission to enter the law can i enter the gate and the gatekeeper says, no, I can't give you permission. The man explains how hard he's worked and how much he wants to enter, but the gatekeeper shakes his head and he says, no, I can't give you permission. The man gives gifts and trades with the gatekeeper. He makes promises to

the gatekeeper, and each day he asks, can I have your permission to go through the gate? and the gatekeeper steadfastly says no, I cannot give you permission. Since the gates are open the man tries to peer through the archway and along the colonnade of archers and other gatekeepers to catch a glimpse of the oasis at the centre. Now seeing this

the gatekeeper laughs and he says if you're so drawn to it just try to go in but beware I'm powerful And I'm the least of the gatekeepers From archway gate to archway gate There is one gatekeeper after another

Each more powerful than the last The third gatekeeper is already so terrible That even I can't bear to look at him Now, these are obstacles a man from the country was not expecting And he's suddenly struck by fear The law, he thinks, should surely be accessible at all times and to everyone But now that he's fearful of what lies beyond he decides that it's better to wait until he gets permission to enter.

So day after day, he asks, he pleads, and he begs the gatekeeper to give him permission to enter the law. But the gatekeeper steadfastly shakes his head and says, No, I cannot give you permission. Now the man, who's carried all of his worldly possessions for his journey, sacrifices all he has, however valuable, to try and convince him. This goes on for years and years, and over time the man fixes orders of attention on the gatekeeper

and forgets about the other gatekeepers as this first one seems to be the sole obstacle preventing him from entering the law. He curses his bad luck and he blames the gatekeeper and everyone else for his misfortune. Finally, the man is nearing death and he's in his last days but he's still at the gate and on his final day, his voice weak, The gatekeeper leans in, and the man says, Gatekeeper, I only have hours left.

Will you give me permission to step through the gate to get a proper glimpse of what I've missed beyond? And the gatekeeper says, Man, you're stubborn, but no, I can't give you permission. And then the gatekeeper closes by whispering in his ear, And it's such a pity, because when you die, I'll have to close this gate, because this gate was made just for you. The moral of the story? If you're waiting for permission, it will never come. So how do you know when's the right time to push through?

When's the perfect time to invest your time, your energy, your money in something rather than just stick with the job and the life that gives you safety and security and puts just enough money in your pocket to survive? Your current comfortable good is the enemy of your future great. If you're waiting for the perfect time, the perfect circumstance or the perfect situation before you take the leap of faith to invest in something that's important to you, it will never be and it will never come. No one and nothing can give you that perfect moment or sign.

There's never the perfect time. And time's the only resource that we don't get any more of. And time spent investing in something will be the biggest contributor to your success. Now the world is full of gatekeepers and permission grantors, some real and some in our head. But if you're waiting for them or someone else or something else to give you permission, you will never enter the gate you will never solve the part of life's puzzle that you are here to solve

and your life will be filled with a dark and depressing dread of regret. You just need to do your homework and take calculated risks and rekindle the courage and bravery that this great country was founded on knowing that a healthy feeling of fear is actually an indicator

that you're stepping out of your comfort zone and by challenging yourself you're learning and growing and moving forward so i challenge you to get out of your comfort zone and go through those gates take those risks and learn that in life no one can give you permission only yourself if there's one thing i implore you to do is not to live a life littered with regret those what ifs and if onlys so do your homework and have the courage to take calculated risks i mean, what's the worst thing that can happen? As my father-in-law, George Nagy, always used to say when presented with challenges, did someone die? No? Well, it's not a problem

then. So if you're waiting for permission, then this is it. You have just given yourself permission. If you're waiting for a sign, then this is it. Get invested. And as I quote of my book, The Freedom Formula, on the other side of your fear lies your freedom. Now, I know what you're probably experiencing a lot of fear and anxiety right now. Your pulse might have picked up, your breathing might have quickened, or you might have that uncomfortable lump in your throat or that tightness in your chest. Now, despite how you feel, this is actually a good sign, not a bad one. But how do you overcome these feelings of fear and anxiety that plague us, those silent, incessant voices in your head, so that you can exhibit

the courage and the bravery to push through your self-imposed limitations. If you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you'll know that I firmly believe that sustainable success lies at the intersection of yourself, your health, and then your wealth. And if you don't master yourself, then you can forget about the other two elves. And this is where today's guest comes in. Lisa Bondarenko is an acclaimed counsellor, author, speaker and just an awesome human. Early on, she spent many years enjoying a very successful corporate career in human resources, marketing and event management. But like all of us, we have moments in life which force us to take a step outside of safety and to jump into something new.

So, as a maturing student, she walked away from her successful career to immerse herself at uni for four years in all things social science and counselling. There she was able to solidify her lifetime love of what she calls human wiring and behaviour with knowledge and understanding that's equipped her with a really strong and deep framework. A framework that assists her to help individuals, groups and organisations in health and wellbeing from a very holistic mental, emotional and physical perspective. Lisa now drives her successful business, Eshae Counselling, where she specialises in infertility, grief and loss, self-esteem and marriage and relationship counselling.

In early 2014, she launched Adelaide's first ever health retreat, Mind, Heart, Body, working with some of Adelaide's leading experts in health and wellbeing. lisa helps you to live consciously and proactively as well as develop increased self-awareness insight and skills to not only survive but thrive in today's challenging world she's also written a fantastic book called silent tears her personal account of the highs lows and everything in between that's experienced by a growing number of families facing ivf and fertility crises. It's a story that has you laughing and crying at the same time. It's a real-life roadmap for surviving, overcoming and finding hope amongst pain and despair.

Now, I've known, liked and respected Lisa and her husband, Serge, both personally and professionally for over 20 years now. And she's a proud wife, a mama bear as she calls herself. She's a blogger, an author, a public speaker. She's a budding musician with an awesome singing voice. And she's also a lover of fresh flowers and a very talented power shopper. Now, Lisa always tells it how it is, with humble and side-splitting humor. So if you're looking for that catalyst for your courage, then you're really going to enjoy this great conversation with Lisa Bondi Bondarenko. Welcome, Friend and Fighters.

Today, guys, we get to have a really fun conversation with someone that I've known, liked and respected for nearly 20 years now. And over this time, we've both evolved in many new and varying directions. But I think the common thread that maintains our mutual respect for each other is a real down-to-earth commitment to caring for the health and welfare of others. and I will say, along with the fact that she's an absolute crack-up who regularly has me in absolute stitches of laughter, so let's get invested, Lisa Bondarenko. Welcome aboard. Thank you very much, Mr Bushy Martin.

It's nice to speak to you. We've been very formal today, which is very unlikely. I know, I know. Hey, for those who don't know you, I know you're well-known in the sphere in good old Adelaide town, But for those who don't, that are listening from afar, can you start by just giving us a bit of a rundown on who you are, what you do and where you're currently heading, Liz? Yeah, sure.

Absolutely. So I am an Adelaide girl. I'm proud of it. I have been practicing in private practice in counseling for nine years now. And look, my background actually was from a HR perspective. I got out of that and went back to uni at 30. and I have the privilege of, you know, working with so many different people and scenarios

and I think if I had a dollar for every time someone, you know, said how depressing is your job, I probably wouldn't have to work but it's not depressing at all. I absolutely love it. I get inspired daily and I've had the opportunity of working with a lot of corporate environments, government, communities, not-for-profits, talking about, you know, mental health in the workplace.

You know, I've run health retreats. I love running training and workshops. My passion, aside from one-on-one counselling, is really about educating people because education, I think, is, you know, key to success. And where do we learn about grief or where do we learn about mental health other than on the job, like when we're going through it? So I'm forever going to be blowing the trumpet, I guess, about normalising therapy, counselling, development, whatever we want to call it, because there's not a human being that walks this planet that doesn't need someone alongside of them just to help process life. Hallelujah. Absolutely, 100% agree with that. And I'm really going to dig into some of that, actually, because there's still, surprisingly for me, quite often a perception that you have to go and see a counsellor, there must be something wrong with you.

Correct. And I'm really keen to dig into that subject because I know firsthand, having spent a lot of time over the years with counsellors, psychiatrists and whatnot of varying degrees, it made a massive difference to how I approach the world. And I don't see that as a failing at all. All I just see is exposing myself to people who can see me better than I can see myself and giving me usable techniques to better cope and better tackle the challenges that the world throws at us. So very keen to delve into that later. But I guess what I'm keen to do initially, Lise, is to get you to take us back through and go back as far as you would like to talk about your journey so far and sort of dig into what you did

and why you did it at the time. Where did that get you to? What did you learn from it and how did that bring you to where you're at now? do you mind just and yeah sure as early as you like okay well um look to it's a bit i'll give you the shortened version but you know my background um like i mean that's how you and i met john we were i was in hrs and recruitment um i was very ambitious um loved what i did and was quite career focused to be honest um but when i left school i'd always always wanted to study psychology and just was actually having too much fun didn't want to you know commit myself to

too much and um wanted to travel the world and and I kept putting it off and putting it off and um I was probably in I wouldn't say the peak of my career but I you know I'd certainly climbed the ladder and I was really proud of where I was at and and loving it and I felt like it was a good space for me and I got married to my now current husband and we had started to, we decided we wanted to start a family and things didn't go to plan and we were, you know, I guess started on the journey of what ended up being eight years of infertility and a lot of, I guess, trauma and challenges and while I was in that space, you know, I guess this whole scenario of of therapy you know we were we were not forced into therapy but we had some support

and i realized that actually it was just an element that i was still really passionate about about standing alongside people and in the midst of our journey i actually um threw in the towel in my corporate world and went back to uni which was a really big really big deal because for so many reasons in my life i i felt like i was failing failing trying to become a mom and all of that and then I felt like from the outside people were like why is she quitting you know a great career to go back and earn no money and be a uni student um but and and I laugh I think you know it was kind of free therapy every day for about three or four years which you know you can't put a price on yeah I know it was like two birds with one stone and and I think you know

the um so that kind of took me on a different journey and I I finished uni and I smashed that out and I knew I still laugh because I knew what I didn't want to do I just didn't know what I wanted to do so there were a lot of things on my list from you know a perspective of what did I want to do with a career in this industry and I'll tell you what the list was very long of what I didn't want to do and I was driving down Brighton Road I'd graduated I was like what am I going to I really wanted to do private practice everyone was like don't be ridiculous you've got no experience why would you do that it's a risk driving down Brighton Road and I saw this sign an office for lease went in chatted to the landlord and I came home and I said to Serge

my husband I was like I know this is going to sound crazy but I just feel like I just need to take a leap of faith and sign this lease I will work two other jobs to continue to bring some money in and also pay for the lease but I will you back me and he was 100% you got to do it babe now you can imagine people were like what is actually wrong with you why would you sign a for 12 months that's crazy you don't even but i just knew because i knew that i need my my definition of success and failure had changed my my definition of um failure was not trying not trying and failing right so i sat in that office this is no word of a lie i sat in that office um i'd get up every morning get dressed and i'd go sit in an empty office for about two

months my phone did not ring you know I had nothing you know and there were some challenging times because your self-doubt kicks in and then I've got my first phone call right this person rings me and says hi Lisa I've been giving you that and I was just like oh my gosh this is it right and um I was like of course you know do you have any available appointments you'd play the old um I'll just check my diary and it's like well of course I have no one else here um and then she said but here's the here's the thing the truth is i i i can't afford much i i've only got 20 and i did not even blink i was like no problems come on in because it was i was just like this is the start and so i started a journey of a backing myself and just and in all honesty

working two other jobs because i needed to still earn an income and all that kind of stuff and and the rest is semi-history it's been nine years and you know you know what it's like in business you have your highs and lows and there's been plenty of time that I've gone you know what I would much rather just work at witchery way easier get good clothes I'll be sorted I'd sit with the accountant and he'd be like not a good year lease but I think it was that whole that whole belief system or value system Lisa what is success and what is failure and through my own personal journey that that definition really changed and I do a lot of work with people now on that, because I think that for so many of us, we are walking a line of a version

that we've been taught, but it is not true to ourselves. And just restate it, because you said it very, very well and very quickly, but I think it's a really important point there. Can you just... Yeah, that my definition of failure was not trying and failing. It was actually not trying. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. So that sense of what will people say if I shut up shop after six months? Well, actually, I back myself and go, at least I tried. Yeah. At least I tried. So whereas before, probably my definition would be, oh, well, you're not, failure would have been trying and not succeeding. But I don't believe that. And I didn't believe that.

And I've done a lot of work around that. So and I think that many people probably are living in that scenario. And I'm not suggesting that my version is 100% the only way. but for me I had to keep in check that to take a risk was success to take a financial risk to take a personal risk to you know an ego risk you know everyone like eye rolling at me going who do you even think you are starting up a practice laser like you're you're a nobody and I was cool with that I was really okay with that that doesn't mean there weren't tears that does not mean that there were days where I thought what what am I actually doing um but I think it was that backing

myself of i've just got to try and if i fail you know what head up head high and honestly they've been as i said they've been years with the account that i think he's probably been eye rolling at me to be honest i have my head high with my little pink little folder as i sat across the table from him going i'm just running my own race yeah you know just running my own race and and here's the thing i what i again there's a bunch of things i've always respected about yourself and serge but there's two really important things i think um i'd love to underline with what you're saying there for those that are listening and that is that you've believed in yourself but serge has believed in you and because you've you've approaching that goal as a partnership because

I'm saying this because Sonia and I are no different. We've backed each other, and the way we've bridged the chasm, the financial chasm, because the one thing that I have taken away from all my research over the last 30 odd years on success is that financially, the first few years, and it can be up to 10 years, can be really lean. But if you're getting on stage often enough, and just as you are taking the 20 bucks but every time you're sitting in someone you're getting

better and better at what you do then it gets to a stage where you get really good at it and the word of mouth exercise looks after itself and then the financial side starts to look after itself as well but you've got to get through the desert and getting through the desert with a supportive partner is a lot easier than someone who said well you have a crack at that Lisa but if it doesn't work out in two years you're back in a job which and I see that and I also see a lot of people exactly as you say around that definition of failure and success we almost live in australia we've got it so good that they almost become golden hand handcuffs and that people have been too fearful to have a crack and they might be really unhappy in their jobs and they might hate

their bosses and hate what they're doing and hate the traveling to to work every day but that seems safer and less risky than than having a go what what are your thoughts around that oh look absolutely I think there's definitely that social construct about what actually is success and what is failure. And I think, you know, we're in a world where the likes of social media, look, you know, there's some good aspects of all of that stuff. But ultimately, I think it's breeding this one-trick pony of what success looks like. And I think that is absolutely like a catastrophe because what my version is and what yours is and what my neighbor's is should be different because we're not we're not like carbon cutouts so I feel like we're living in a world where everyone is trying to achieve the same things and I think why you know what what works and you know

like going back to Serge and my relationship yeah we are you know I guess each other's wingman and there's been plenty of times I've backed him and I'll tell you know probably talk to you about that what we're doing right now but I think I think it's also a trust thing I think it's um risk and you know risk is one of those things there can be the financial risk there can be the mental risk there can be emotional risk there can be um physical risk but if we don't risk then what we what happens and this is my own humble opinion is we be just we flatline really early and i'm seeing more and more people flatlining or being you know slave to their circumstance but even in all circumstances like you know we all have choice and some of the choices are

and you know even on the platter are not great but we still get to choose and we still get to move um but many many people and you know i've been in that position but where we're paralyzed and we feel like we can't and we shouldn't and we won't and we don't um and but that's a i guess that's a belief a core value and a belief system and you know there's some personalities john you would know this that just take risks you know that's who they are but um i don't think it's an all or nothing oh it's just not my personality i think it's a choice i think choice and being able to choose and and really um i guess backing yourself or taking risk and taking chance i think it's i think it's about courage and bravery and people and i think that it's a really undervalued

um you know not skill set but undervalued character trait or choice because i think if we were all being more courageous and brave um imagine what the world would look like well here's here's the thing i and again i'd be interested in your thoughts on this i've been doing a lot of uh reading and and listening and whatnot around this subject but uh the days of the long-term job are long gone. Gone-ski. So the people who stick in those corporate jobs thinking that that is the least risk option, I believe, are kidding themselves because unless you are irreplaceable, and

not many people are, we might think we are, but very few are, then the biggest risk of sticking with that model of the perceived safe model is that it may may well fall off the cliff and you talk about flatlining i i think it's a bit worse than flatlining i think it's actually going backwards and then it's only incremental but uh if you're not challenging yourself if you're not uh having the courage to pursue the things that you you really want to then you're without realizing it you're putting yourself potentially in quite a dangerous position but talking about The courage and the bravery, you know, and they are key aspects of what you're talking about. How can you assist someone to have that courage and bravery to perhaps back themselves as you and Serge have?

Any thoughts on that? Well, look, yeah, look, I think, you know, courage and bravery is not, you know, just one fits all. And what might be my courage might be someone else's version is different. I think courage and bravery is very personalized I think you know I see it in the counseling room some people come in and they are like just so beyond courageous it makes me you know wince of like wow Lisa you really need to take stock right because and it's but it's not about comparing I think it's about the first place of the first port of call for me is you know kind of getting real and honest and kind of raw with, you know, my why

and my what, like why am I doing, like let's go back to the, you know, Monday to Friday job and there's nothing wrong with that. And some people, that is their absolute delight and stick it out and go for it and be amazing. But that's a different story for people that are just doing it because. And there's always reasons why we can't do things.

But even in that, sometimes just a conversation can be courageous around, you know what, this is not what I want. I don't know how to do it, but I'm just going to have the conversation. And because, you know, it's like people come into counselling and it's not, in a one-hour session, we are not radically changing people's lives. You know, we are doing footprints, and I always talk about

what's your footprint when you walk out of this door? What's one footprint that is going to be different to when you walked in? And I think sometimes the footprint is just acknowledging and going, you know what, this needs to be addressed. And that's courageous. That is, like, I would high-five someone and go, well done for even sitting in that. Yeah.

But I think most of us do not give ourselves the time or attention to even have that internal conversation. And hence, yeah, absolutely. And we blame business. We blame no time. But they're quite often things to hold behind. Well, it absolutely is because actually, have you ever felt in your own world, John, if i open that door i'd actually don't i don't want to go there because it's not going to be pretty or i'm going to have to address things or i'm going to have to make changes or i'm going to

have to you know have that conversation so we go we'll just keep that little door closed and that's okay we can do that but remember that when we choose to do that we're saying yes to something and no to something so what are we saying yes to and what are we saying no to and how is not tackling that serving me in yeah correct and and there's time and place there's times where it's like actually and i'll say to people keep the door closed do not open that you are not in a space to to deal with the open door and that's okay that's that's yeah that's i hadn't thought about that but because it is a pandora's box once once yes once it's out of the bag then uh it can go in all sorts of directions and people need to be equipped you know the last thing we want is for people to be

opening doors of of history or childhood or experience or whatever and not be have the framework of support and understanding and and backing like that's just that's just not not good due diligence like i'll never unpack something um with anyone that there's not a framework to support that awesome awesome yeah that's i hadn't actually uh contemplated that But there's a right time to tackle those if you're going to survive through it, which is really good advice. Awesome. Hey, one of the things that I would like to talk with you about,

given I'm sure you probably tackle this every day, is the subject of anxiety, Lise, because it's a thing I'm hearing a lot about. And I'll be interested in your thoughts on what anxiety is, but I reckon there are times when I definitely suffer from anxiety, without ever recognising that that's exactly what it is. And it seems to be something that is a growing exercise across the board, whether it be visible or invisible.

Can I get you to sort of expand on what you see around that and what some of the symptoms of anxiety might be and then what some of the strategies might be to assist people who might be suffering anxiety in all of its forms? Yeah, well, look, obviously I do talk a lot and work a lot around anxiety. And the first thing I want to say is that anxiety is a normal human experience, right? It's a normal human emotion. And I think what's happened, this is my own humble opinion, is that it's become quite the pop word, pop culture.

And, you know, we've got kids using the language and there's nothing wrong with the label. But I think it's about normalizing anxiety. Now, there's two versions of anxiety. The anxiety of the common human experience is when we're stressed about a situation, we're nervous, we're anxious, you know, we're about to get up and speak in front of someone, you know, we've got that deadline, you know, that normal. The healthy anxiety. Yeah, right. There's a reason that I'm anxious. And that, you know, is not something to be feared.

It's just, well, why wouldn't you be? You know, you're getting up in front of an audience. Of course, you've got butterflies and all that kind of stuff. the the other version of anxiety is when it's crippling and when it's um in the driver's seat of our life and when it's changing our ability to make choices and do things and be and all of that and that's that's the version where i say you need medical intervention that you know you need you need to get a hand on that because you know that there's a difference between anxiety and an anxiety disorder right so i want to talk more about anxiety though right um and as i said anxiety is

you know normal but um i think what's happened is that we have become a bit fearful of it and it's become now a mental health label rather than um no that's just being human right yeah so um and it doesn't become a mental health label until it's diagnosed until it's actually you know become bigger and more than um just your average daily experience or event experience Because something that I start to see in people is that once they can hang on to a label, that becomes the excuse for all sorts of things that they're not doing and therefore I don't need to do that because I'm suffering from anxiety. Would I be reading that right or not?

Yeah, look, I think, you know, any label, you know, I'll have people that come in and sit down and they'll say, hi, my name's Roger and I've got anxiety and I'm like, well, that's helpful information but I'm just more interested in Roger. you know, and talk to me about the anxiety. It doesn't become a part of who we are. So I think that, yes, it can, it definitely holds people to ransom and also acts as a bit of a scapegoat.

But I think it's also about recognising that anxiety is about fear. Anxiety is about, you know, the unknown. Anxiety is that it's generally caused around, you know, the overthinking, overthinking the worrying the excessive concern um and so when we have those expressions or when we have the physical you know the heart racing the sweaty palms the you know feel sick or whatever i think it's about just stopping and acknowledging it but what's happening is no one wants to stop and acknowledge it we just keep going going going going and then it just builds and builds and builds but it's like when people come into me like i think about the common concept of crying

the amount of people that come and sit down on my couch and before i've even done an intro they're crying and i'll say what's going on for you oh nothing i don't know i don't know and i'm like but we don't cry for no reason right so there's always a why happening around the what so with anxiety it's like we're not having and we're not having a physiological reaction to nothing there's a why so let's talk about that you know and let's address that and let's take control of that because anxiety can snowball really really quickly you know all of a sudden it's like oh I'm going to be late for Bushy's podcast oh my gosh what's going to happen he's going to be angry with me and then and then we're going to not be you know and it snowballs the stories in our head

yeah yeah it's the stories in our head and it but also being able to go you know I feel I just feel really anxious because it's different when you know and and i think anxiety is seen as the bad emotion anxiety is seen as the bad experience anxiety is seen as you know the the dark side but why is it different to joy it just that it has a different expression it's interesting you say that because i use anxiety in my own case as a measuring stick for whether i'm challenging myself and and uh because i like my i guess my beliefs pretty similar to you that if i'm if i'm not learning something new every day then I'm I believe education and learning is what life is ultimately all about and I guess in my the story in my head is if if I'm not challenging myself

then I'm not growing and the measuring stick for whether I'm growing is whether I feel a bit anxious because it means I'm outside of my comfort zone and it means I'm stretching myself and it means i'm probably doing something that i haven't done before so uh yeah that's that's that that's really interesting i guess again it comes back to how we respond in our head to these situations that occur to us and then what story we put around that uh too well i think also you know i mean anxiety can be frightening you know some of the some of the physical reactions to anxiety you know um panic attacks things like that that's not fun and it can be it can feel very out of control and i think it's about more about embracing and going okay what is this telling me just like the

tears are telling me something something's not right what's anxiety what's happening and i think it's about that honest conversation with ourself of you know if it's just i've just got to get to this deadline and i'm really anxious and once that that deadline's over i'm going to be fine well that's different right but if it's ongoing and if it's this constant you know battle of the mind and um it's changing our ability to just do normal tasks or you know we might not go to that party because you know we're a bit you know like well then i say let's address that let's work with that let's let's let's just look at it at least you know um and there's plenty of people who are living with really high levels of anxiety who are living amazing lives it just means that they've

got habits structure discipline understanding awareness around what works for them can we talk about some of those coping strategies because it is something that i see increasingly and people deal with it and or don't deal with it uh in lots of different ways are there are there some approaches that we can take that that might might help with all of that you're happy to share yeah yeah i mean look i think you know there's it's not a one you know straight off the shelf and everyone has the same thing because everyone's so unique, right? But I think it's really important that as human beings, if we are experiencing anxiety or anxious thoughts

or anxious experiences, that we need to acknowledge it and we need to just start sitting in that and working out why, not ignoring it because that's what's happening. People are ignoring it and then it snowballs and gets worse, right? So I think it's about the acknowledging. I think it's about having conversations. I'm always talking and not trying to normalise anxiety. I'm not trying to normalize anxiety disorders and living at that level, but I'm trying to normalize anxiety as it's okay.

Like if you're not experiencing some version of anxiety at some point in your life, then, you know, like are you a robot, you know, because it's just part of life. But it's just more about what have you got in place? Do you understand that? What are some of the like what are your telltale signs? You know, for me, it might be I just feel a bit nauseous. I've got that feeling so that I can name it so so I go hang on that's not just I ate something wrong last night that's that anxiety feeling you know and we can actually start dissecting it and recognizing it in our own body recognizing it in our behavior so if I start doing the whole

oh I'm just not going to go to that family event because and we make up excuses and then the next week I'm doing the same it's like why why is my behavior changing so it's the awareness and and knowing your own your own body your own patterns so i think that's really key because once we can know that then it's like oh i can i can feel it i know i'm in that zone i need to address things then you know i think it also comes down to and again this is not a one-size-fits-all but i think you know there's some things just from a practical um place of habits and disciplines around you know how do i stop that excessive worry how do i because um we we need to i guess press pause on that or address the issue because often anxiety is based on things that aren't even

happening haven't happened but they just might so we're going to sit in that space and and panic about it that fear of the unknown that turns into an ugly story yeah yeah and so being able to stop and there's so much um research done on the brain and how we need to you know rewire that and actually be accountable for it no i will not allow myself i won't get lazy in my mind to just allow a snowball effect of i had a bad experience that's turned into i've had a bad life very quickly so it's that discipline of um the mind no i'm not going to allow myself to sit and stare at a window and you know think about all the things that might happen when i go to that event i say stop i say no yeah and and so but that that is about being aware as well

so many of us are walking through life a bit semi-unconscious just in the in the zone of doing all the things and robot and press you know we're just on go but to actually be a bit more aware of the telltale signs and symptoms in our own body in our own world in our decisions in our behaviors and i think also having the conversation like if and there's been times where i have seen a change in surge and i know he might not call it anxiety but i know he's under it and i know that that you know he's not so it's addressing that and going baby you're okay and often they'll be i'm fine i'm fine you know and it's like well are you sure because and that he might be okay but why are we not being bold with our loved ones and asking a simple question are

are you okay because I'm seeing there's just something not quite right with you and giving people permission to be honest. Yeah, that is a big one. And the whole, I mean, we've gone a thousand directions with this, but the whole subject around self-awareness, you know, we use the excuse of busyness not to have to look in the mirror and go, hmm i need to do some work here how do you sort of encourage people to to uh start looking inwards well i mean i think there has to it either happens two ways one is you're the type of

personality or the person who's just on this road of wanting to be self-development and and personal development and growing and being your best version right then there's other people that might have a bit of a life crisis that really just life slams them and they are forced to address issues or, you know, are forced to make massive lifestyle changes or massive changes for whatever reason. So, you know, I'm always about, you know, what do you need to do to be more aware in your own surroundings and is that what you want?

You know, because some people are like, Lisa, I don't want that and that's okay there's not you know there's not a rule right yeah but it's it's just more about the avoidant behavior of a lot of people about wanting to address how they feel because to feel you know we are human beings and we're you know big part of us is feeling feeling humans but it's like the emotions and feeling part of us is like we don't have time for that we have only got time for logistics we've only got time for achievements and success we don't i don't want to feel that because who wants to feel anxiety who wants to feel pain who wants to feel disappointment who wants to feel that betrayal that happened no sirree I don't want to sit there I'm just going

to get on with it and you know the old quote and drove me crazy because I'm like it is what it is really because it sounds so flippant you know it's not and bad things happen to people sometimes we make really dumb choices that have great consequences or sometimes it's just a little blimps and along the way but to say to someone it is what it is i don't know i i just find that um it's one of my little pet pet hates to be honest and maybe some of the listeners are like going well i like it that's fine but it's just that flippancy around well it might be is what it is but under underneath that there is a lot of stuff there's a lot of response to that there's a lot of reaction to whatever it is and we're not giving ourselves permission to feel it

you tell me but i the further you push it down and the further the more you avoid it it's going to be like a spring it's going to come back and bite i would have thought yeah and i think i say to people all the time not many people get away with not dealing with the stuff i say if we have to do the work we have to get in the trenches and we can put it off and even going back to my own journey you know i put it off and put it off and put it off because i was just on the road of let's do this this is what the doctor said i'm going to do that and i am not going to address how i feel because i remember sitting in front of a council saying if i unpack that i actually don't know that i'm going to get off the ground and i don't have time for that just for the listeners we're talking

about the infertility yeah yeah let's do that this is a probably a great example and if you're happy to dig into that I'd love to expand on it a bit so like like most hard-working Aussie couples there's almost this societal perception that if you're going to be the happy family you've got to have kids it's almost an unwritten rule in a lot of ways and I say that because Sonia and I have dealt with that and I'll perhaps talk a bit more about that with you as we go through but But, yeah, so that's something that most Aussie couples deal with at some stage of the game. Talk us through it because you mentioned earlier on

when you were talking through that you saw that, I sense that you saw that as a failure in yourself at one stage. Can you take us on that journey because I think it's a really important one to put some perspective around. Yeah, look, I think it's definitely like you were just saying, there is that social, I guess, scenario of, well, if you're not having kids, what's wrong with you, you know? And if you can't, you know, what's wrong with you?

And, you know, I work with couples all over the world now on varying, you know, ends of the spectrum. And I say to people all the time that, you know, motherhood is A, not for everyone, and B, even the ones that want it don't always get it. And then there's some that have it and then they decide they don't want it and then there's some that love it right and i think um there's you know and i think we're so unkind especially with women to women we're quite unkind in that in that um

arena however you know for me it was something that you know i'd always wanted and i guess when you're told that it's really unlikely to happen um the five it's that whole what do you mean like you know and and it's that and then you know as the years went by and we went through ivf for eight years and had 10 rounds of IVF and yeah and um that and it was just that well what's wrong with my body what you know why my body not carry this baby after baby you know and um and because as humans we need if there's a reason we can sit with that but when there's just no reason that's unbearable you know it's like well there has to be an answer there has to be a written no it's just it's one of those things you know and so I had this and because my definition of sixth

sense of failure was very staunched in um if i don't then i'm a failure um you know my experience in that field was very very traumatic um so and as time and therapy and you know my faith and all that kind of stuff just you know started to tap in you know i realized that you know it's not about me being a failure um it's just life happens and everyone's got different stories and um it's not it wasn't my right to have children, you know, just because I'm a woman and it didn't make me better or worse or lesser or greater, you know. So it was a real battle for me, John. Like it was a real battle.

So I think that… And most of that was pressure that you put on yourself, do you think, Liz? Yes. Yes, totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. There was external pressure as well, of course. People were very unkind, said really bad things.

And maybe not meaning to, just, well, you know, things like, well, obviously there's something in your psyche that doesn't want to have children. Yeah, I could write another book, let me tell you. Or, you know, just, yeah, so many things. Or, you know, maybe you're not doing enough, you know. And, I mean, you know, maybe you need to manifest, which, by the way, that word with me, or eat more kale or do this or do that. And so everyone had an opinion, right?

Oh, of course. I would eat kale and stand on my head if that's what they told me to do. But, you know, not everything, you know, and I think it was coming to terms with that, you know, it's not just a right, you know, it's not just a, well, that should happen. And so I think for me, going back to your question, you know, you talk about anxiety i mean i had eight years of anxiety you know and the longer that takes the bigger it gets because the higher the expectation the more you put on and the the less you can have

something you the more you want it yeah and um and i mean right up until the last stages and obviously you know we've got um beautiful little boy but you know i was in counseling in that final six months before i got pregnant um and they were and she was amazing but i was going through the process of grieving being a mother like that was the final stage um yeah that I was you know pursuing because I knew I needed to face that um and so that wasn't let me tell you that was not a fun couch experience um but you know I think it's that whole concept around we have to deal with our pain because if we don't deal with our pain and from the outside and you know probably you and Sonia even witnessed it in in the years you know I presented really well I was you know I was

gunning like no one but behind the scenes you know it was you know being in the fetal position and Serge his shirt just being covered in mascara and just you know like but but I think and the reason why we wrote the book and the reason why I've been a bit more open about it even though it's not you know it's not natural to speak about your worst years it's not natural to speak about those those dark times because you know again we live in this world where it's we wanted we want the highlights but they were not highlight years for me at all um and I think that that that message of and I I played it well I was really I was a good academy award winner you know and I regret that right I regret that but there was part of me that didn't the shame I didn't want to deal with

it I didn't want to I didn't want to deal with it so I performed and I think a lot of people in all different areas of their life the areas that cause us pain or have caused us pain we we run we don't want to know i don't think i'm alone in that not at all not at all i mean when i lost my marriage at least uh the shame i i i withdrew from the world for two years i just i became a hermit because i yeah you know marriage was that was for life that wasn't that wasn't even a question and And when that didn't happen, it's like, well, what's wrong with me? I can't face people anymore. That was part of who I was.

That's part of who I was supposed to be. So how can I now look someone in the eye? That shame was, mind you, and I guess retrospect's a really easy thing. And you mentioned that people come to self-awareness either through a catastrophe or a challenge or they're just the sort of people that want to continue. There's no doubt my search was because of the catastrophe. I'd lost my marriage, which was the biggest thing for me and the biggest shame for me.

So I was like, okay, well, how am I going to avoid this happening again? But here's the thing, John, like there was part of you that, you know, did walk that out and maybe it took longer than two years, but there's so many people that have that experience, experience the same emotions but ignore it and i think that's that's the danger and that's where you know that's why when people think counseling's like the bottom of the barrel and in a career i just think you have no idea what it's like to sit with someone who who gets and and to walk alongside someone just in in a in an environment where people are exploring and processing and

dealing with and having a heart like it's magic it's not magic sitting and watching someone in pain and i mean i've had some experiences in my counseling room where it's actually been overwhelming for me but pain is part of being human and if we don't experience pain then i think we're not actually even switched on you know because pain can happen i'm not talking catastrophic pain i'm talking just the pain of you know um oh my my child didn't get picked for the rugby team that hurts me because it hurts my kid or i didn't i got looked over for that promotion that's painful you know um or the bank rejected me on blah blah blah there's there's just pain points all over out all over the point all over the place and it's not about sitting and dwelling

in it but it's just about acknowledging it yeah yeah absolutely tell us on that that journey through IVF for you, at what point did you say, right, I'm going to go and get counselling? And that eight-year very traumatic exercise because it takes a fair bit of guts for someone to say, right, I need to go and get some help with this. When did that happen and can you talk us through a bit of that? Yeah, look, I think part of it was we got signed up to one of the local clinics and their counsellor and let me tell you to be honest um that was the moment

that I decided to go back to uni to get my degree because we sat in this session and it was so awkward and Serge was sitting there like like just deer in headlights and I was just awfully bantering like not knowing what was going on and I was like it was just the worst and I still remember coming out just going well that went well and what was that and it was in that moment I was like you know what I'm I'm if I can sit in that space with another couple then I'm going and and that's kind of the journey of me going back to uni and and um and and taking that path but you know because I'd always been interested in psychology and things like that I just recognized that for Serge and I and it's like anything for any couple no matter what the topic is or what the

challenge or mountain is Serge could not be who I needed him to be because he had his own version and I think sometimes what happens in relationships is we pull on each other and as men and women we are so different it doesn't matter I don't care what anyone says we are so different the way we process the way we do things and so I recognize that actually to to save my marriage or to at least you know keep it a little bit safe I needed another space and so so you know I had honestly I had one-on-one counseling for many years um and Serge and I had many sessions as a couple when it just got too much because it just starts you start turning in on each other in and you know Serge had his own and you know in my in the book you know his chapter um is probably the chapter

we hear the most from because it's it's the male version and um and often and again it's not just infertility it's any any story often men just deal with things differently and women are known to talk talk talk talk talk and i'm generalizing obviously um but men and men you know you think about men and men's mental health at the moment you know it's it's diabolical that men men suffer just as much as women that they do not ever ask for help because it's that it's that social constructive well what's wrong with you man up yeah and i think it's also uh you know i'm talking personally here but we're very uh solution focused there's a problem right let's fix it let's just get it and fix it and i know this probably sounds stupid and my counselor was probably laughing on

the inside the first time i went to see a counselor i was like okay i don't i'm here i don't really have a problem i just want some strategies i know i know i've got this issue and i've got that issue so can you just give me some strategies and action plan so i can go off and get it done oh my gosh well you know what maybe we went to the same counselor because my first session was okay so I know I'm ungrieving I'm probably at stage two how many sessions do I need stage five and she just looked at me like are you and I was not even joking like just get me there and then I'm like I was insulted that she was like well I can't and I was like what's wrong with you you can't even like you know I was like a bit judgy I'm like well you're useless

um you know but i love but it's the same thing you know because but here's the thing we want we want to even fema we want it fixed because ps i do not want to sit in this pain i don't want to i don't want to sit in unresolved relationship conflicts i don't want to sit in this in this space that makes me feel any of these things i want out get me out quickly yeah and you know anything good in life doesn't happen quickly no absolutely dead right there yeah you've we've circled around this a little bit but there's i can see why there's an obvious interest in psychology but but it's can you expand on on your interest in that area where that was seeded from and and and whatnot because it's i find it there's not a lot of people who go down that that path

look i think um probably one of my highest values as a human is um relationships and and connection and and i think i've just always and it's probably also conditioning from my my own parents you know watching them do life and and do relationships and invest um in people and i think it was just more the wiring of people always been something that has interested me why people do what they do where it stems from you know how we how we make changes if we need to um and it's just really delving in you know even just the brain I mean we we just we just know so little about the brain and and the why and and the function of it and I think you know when I see you know even when I watch the news and trust me I don't I very very rarely watch that because it's too distressing but

I look at scenarios or I look at the world that we're in and I think you know there's always a reason why people behave good or bad you know there's always a reason why um marriages fail there's always a there's always a reason and i just feel like when we can understand that and sometimes there's no no way of understanding it all um but when we can actually just kind of see people through different lenses i just think there's a level of grace in that and there's a a different level of generosity um and yeah so it was always and i always even in hr you know you're working with people you're seeing them you know go do great things or or challenge or or whatever and i think you know as human beings maybe it's just me but there's no greater gift

than just hanging with people and watching them do life yeah yeah the satisfaction you would get from seeing someone who's in dire straits and they're there in front of you because they don't know how to solve this issue themselves and then over time see them take some positive steps forward must be very gratifying, Lisa. Yeah, and it is. And it's not always, you know, unicorns and roses

and there's some, like in any profession, there's some really challenging clients that, you know, really test me and there's some days that I don't enjoy it. Like, let's be honest. But overall, it's those little nuggets of, wow, just to watch the transformation. And transformation can be in one session or three years down the track. Yeah, absolutely. You haven't mentioned the name of your book, but I think it's worth mentioning because it is something that a lot of people will be tackling.

And it seems to be a growing issue, whether it's our dietary or the stressful lifestyle that we all live now. But infertility seems to be something that has a – and you know more about the facts and figures on this, but it certainly seems to be a growing issue. Can you tell us about the book and where people can get it if they're challenging with that? Look, so the book is called Silent Tears, and it's basically through the looking glass of IVF. And the truth of this story was I published this a couple of years ago. we have a six-year-old now um but the book 80 of it was written before um we ever got pregnant the book was written through some of my really challenging years and my the the truth is that that book was always always going to get published with or without the result do you know what i mean

this was i was very clear about that my why i was very clear about um yeah that i wanted to give people because i think it's so normal now oh they're doing ivf you'll be fine but there's nothing normal about ivf traumatic it's challenging it's you know marriages the percentage of marriage breakdown is next level um it challenges your identity the financial is unbearable you know so i wrote it um it was not easy to write serge wrote his chapter i did not even read his chapter until that was about to be published um and yeah and it was hard for me to read um but it was absolutely true and I really valued his um take on it and I wanted a male perspective because you know they get kind of left out and you know it is obviously a story about IVF but actually in the in the heart

of the story it's more about when when life brings disappointment and when life is not what you thought it was going to be and how to cope in marriage and grief and it's really about therapy it's like a therapeutic tool and yes it's can it sits in ivy of clinics and yes it works you know a lot of couples going through it read it but actually the message underneath it is you know um just a little chick from adelaide who was like this is a story of grief and love actually and this is a story of when you know life throws you curveballs that you have no equipment for what do do yeah love it love it knowing you as well as well as I do and your good husband Serge I know it would be a good read I know it would be you'd tell it how it is so oh yeah there's

some funny parts you you yeah there's there's some like it's pretty raw and there's you know yeah sometimes I look read it back and go oh my gosh I can't believe I told people that but you know it's just honest I love you you have me in stitches your your social media posts I I actually look forward to yours because I'm wetting myself nine times out of ten because you just tell exactly how it is. And you say what most of us think but we're too scared to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to switch into what I call the ambush round, Lise,

which is the sort of five quick questions that the listeners constantly pester me about. And the first of those is what is your favourite quote and why? um so probably a bit left of center but um my favorite is a a proverb actually from the bible and i've it's um my favorite and i'll tell you why but it's um she is clothed with strength and dignity and she lasts without fear of the future and i love that and i i you know i often just you know meditate on that because um dignity for me is that she carries herself well and that honestly i don't always but that is my my great intention that i carry myself well in who i am that i'm aligned with what i believe and what i do my behaviors am i a work in progress of course

you know um and that without fear of the future of you know um and that's not about having not having anxiety but it's just about that i'm deliberate in my footsteps that um i can ask for help when i need to that i might be some something and someone to someone else you know so it's it's one of my favorite go-tos i love it i love that i've never heard of it i yeah proverbs 31 it is yeah okay that that is a that is a cracker laser uh yeah i'll look that up actually because that's that's i've read a lot of bible verse but that's that's certainly not one that um has hit the mark and it really does it's a great credo actually yeah love that uh turning to to books for a minute uh we've mentioned your book silent tears but what's the top book that

you'd recommend people read and why um you know and it's probably it's an old basic one but because of because of what i was talking about my values being relationships um the five love languages is something that i love it's um by dr gary chapman most people have probably heard about it read it but i yeah i just think you know what it's a very i don't want to say basic as in it's just simple but But it's kind of such a great foundation and framework into relationships. And I'm not just talking marriages. I'm talking with just humans.

And I think that if people could really stand in that methodology, I think the world could look a bit different in a good way. Yeah, I 100% agree. I remember Sonia and I read that book together. I can't tell you how many years ago. A long time ago probably, yeah. Yeah, it was. It's been around for a long time.

But just it is, it puts some real perspective around, okay, well, that's helped me understand who I am and I understand better who she is and I understand what need she has better now because it's not what mine are. Our default position with everything is, well, if that's what I want, then that's obviously what the other person wants, so I'll just do that.

And then why isn't that working? Which was my default position before that and that really opened my eyes to that. And you're right, it has much broader application because it doesn't matter who you're dealing with, if you can start to understand who they are and how they think and what ways you can demonstrate to them in a means that they accept and embrace, then as a communication tool, the world would be a much happier place if everyone had adopted that sort of a framework. Correct. I believe so, yeah. Yeah, awesome book. That is an awesome book.

and I would get right behind you in recommending anyone who hasn't read it. You don't read it just for your relationship, although it is a massive help with that. But in terms of understanding how you interact with others, it's a really good baseline. So very good suggestion. Now, this one is totally left field,

but because everyone in Australia that I come across feels they pay too much tax, what's the top thing that you've legally done to minimise the tax that you've paid? well you know um it's probably a very one-sided relationship but uh probably having my accountant and i do feel sorry for him because every year i say i'm going to do better and be better and have things more organized but it's just not my area of expertise but he's been amazing and he he holds it well as i said i'm sure he eye rolls internally sometimes maybe i'm set out externally but um he you know he keeps it in check and um you know it's it's not my favorite

time of year so that's probably been and I invested in him from day one and he was the one in the very first year where he said to me Lisa I've got good news and bad news I'm like okay well clearly give me the bad news first and he said well I'm I'm going to tell you that you've made four dollars um uh for the year like you broke even with for fair so that's great news the bad news you now owe me 330 for doing it and i'm like that is horrible i cried i'm like as my dad said i walked out and i rang my dad and he was like lisa the good news is in one year you did more than break it you made a profit girlfriend i'm like four dollars exactly well i reckon in year one of any business, that is an awesome result.

Most are in the red by quite a distance. So you did pretty well there, Lisa. I couldn't even buy coffee, but anyway. Now, switching back to the old investment topic, and this is not related to investing in shares, property or otherwise. It can be in anything, whatever you invest your time, energy, money, resources in. But what would you say is both the worst and the best piece

of investment advice that you've ever received today? Probably the best came from my parents, which was travel the world, which I have done and did in my 20s a lot, and so therefore didn't come into a marriage with any investment portfolio or properties. Sure. And I'm so grateful for that, and I will always tell people travel is one of the greatest investments ever.

Yeah. We have done a lot of property in our time, building and selling, building and selling, which has been great. The worst bit of investment, I don't know if it's been like personally one-on-one advice. I think it's just the message of having to do what everyone else is doing. Does that make sense? It does. Right?

So that whole, you know, what might be right for Jim and Sarah is not right for me and Serge. But in the world where it's like it's cookie cutter, this is what makes you wealthy or this is what is important, I think it's just, yeah, I struggle with that. I just want to run our own race. Have we made mistakes? Oh, my gosh. We've overcapitalized. We've, you know, we've made rash decisions based on emotions. We've done it all.

You name it. But I don't want that advice of you must do this to be successful or wealthy. I want it to be tailor-made to my personality, to my values, to my beliefs, to what I want. Yeah, so probably that. Yeah, and you've hit on a spot on with that. In our business, when someone comes to us, there is no one-size-fits-all because it's all about their goals, their aspirations,

their sleep at night factor everyone's different in that regard what they feel comfortable with and what they don't and if you don't acknowledge those things whatever you get yourself involved in isn't going to be a success anyway so uh yeah no that's that's uh really good okay let's last question i'd always like to to close on lisa if you spoke to someone who's just leaving school let's let's say it's your beautiful son jack and he's he's about to leave school what would you advise him to invest his time, energy, money and skills in to create his version of freedom? Education. Yeah.

Travel. Amazing, strong, secure, healthy relationships. Yeah, yeah. And I think the rest would be history. Yeah. Yeah, it's spot on. Love that. That is some awesome thoughts, Lisa.

Always love having a chat to you. It's been well overdue for you and I having a chat so that other people can share in your brilliance. Love to get you back at a later stage. I'm sort of in the longevity of getting vested time and time again now. it's become crystal clear to me that the starting point and the finishing point is getting much more aware of self and self-awareness because if we don't and we ignore that, then it'll sabotage us at some point in time.

And it's a growing area in a world where there seems to be this widening gap between what we're expected to do and what's really right for us. and you're really at the cutting edge in that regard in helping people to navigate that quite perilous exercise these days. So I really appreciate you spending some time with us today, Lisa. Well, it's been a privilege. Thank you for having me on here.

Awesome. We'll talk soon. Thanks, Lisa. All right. Take care. Bye. Well, Freedom Fighters, how good was that? To get a summary of all this investment gold in the show notes,

just email me on hello at khgroup.com.au. That's H-E-L-L-O at khgroup.com.au. Or check us out at www.bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. I look forward to joining you next week for another episode of the Get Invested podcast. So thanks for listening. And as always, dream as if you live forever and live as if you die tomorrow. Thanks for watching!