Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Luke Smith on investing in Smart Money Strategy

Episode Date: March 31, 2023

You don't need a great investment tip to create wealth, you need the right strategy, says adviser and author Luke Smith.  Most people are focused on the investment, and the outcome, instead of the strategic foundations that underpin sustainable success in wealth creation. This includes understanding, and improving, your relationship with money.  So if your strategy needs some work, or you don't have one at all, then you’ve landed in the right place at the right time. We're joined by Luke Smith, who has recently released his great book Smart Money Strategy, which helps you develop strategies and find financial clarity in our world of growing uncertainty and confusion.  Luke is affectionately known as ‘The Strategy Stacker’ following his 20 years of success as a financial planner, helping countless hard working Aussies understand and make the most of your financial options. He also talks wealth on 2CC Talking Canberra each week. Enjoy the conversation! Get the Smart Money Strategy book: https://thestrategystacker.com.au/book/  Connect with Luke:  www.thestratetgystacker.com.au www.envisionfinancial.com.au Three easy ways to Get Invested right now: 1. Subscribe to this podcast now, if you haven’t already, and get the inspiration delivered to your podcast feed each week 2. Get a copy of my book, Get Invested, for FREE, and find out what it takes for you to invest in living more, working less. Go to: https://knowhowproperty.com.au/get-invested-free-ebook  3. Join the Get Invested community. Each month Bushy sends a free and exclusive monthly email full of practical ‘Self, Health and Wealth’ wisdom that our current Freedom Fighter subscribers can’t wait to get each month. Just visit bushymartin.com.au, scroll to the bottom of the page and sign up. About Get Invested, a Property Hub show Get Invested is the leading weekly podcast for Australians who want to learn how to unlock their full ‘self, health and wealth’ potential. Hosted by Bushy Martin, an award winning property investor, founder, author and media commentator who is recognised as one of Australia’s most trusted experts in property, investment and lifestyle, Get Invested reveals the secrets of the high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and the world around them. Get Invested is part of the Property Hub podcast channel, your home for property investment insights, inspiration and stories from Australia’s top property experts, investors, leaders and analysts. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotifyand Google Podcasts to get every Get Invested episode each week for free, and also get full access to RealtyTalk, Australia’s top online property show for red hot property investing news and insights direct from property industry leaders and influencers. Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, show producer Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media.  For business and partnership enquiries, send an email to: [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Because I've never met anybody that gets to 60, retires and goes, oh, look at all these choices I've got. Jeez, I'm upset about that. You know, no one's ever said that to me. I generally say to people, sacrifice or regret, you choose. But it's going to be one of them. You know, for me, and I'm going to say this, and this isn't for everybody, but if you're doing 40 hours a week,

that's just a minimum ticket to the game. Now, I know people will say, oh, it's work-life balance. you need to do this and that and this and whatever else and look I'm not I'm not against that I think that has its place um but if you're not hungry and you're not consistent then you're going to find it very difficult to look at what other people have and go well I could have had that but and that comes back to that sacrifice and regret comment that I made earlier that you've got a choice can't get upset about not having that choice because indirectly that was your choice and i'm not saying you need to work 80 hours a week for the next 40

years but cash flow fixes a lot of problems and cash flow provides a lot of opportunities when it comes to investing and the speed with which you do things driver behind the book strategy strategy strategy not product and we talk about stacking strategies where if you get your foundation like anything right there are then other opportunities that can lead into more growth more options, more structures, more savings, more tax benefits, but you've got to get the little things right out of the gate. The biggest problem people have, I think, is so best piece of advice, be happy saying Welcome to Get Invested, the leading weekly podcast to help you unlock your full potential

and enjoy your version of sustainable success that lies at the intersection of your three elves, yourself, your health and your wealth. I'm your host and guide Bushy Martin and each week we go deep sharing great conversations with proven experts in all walks of life including the best investors, property experts, analysts, leaders, founders, sports stars and health gurus to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills and their money and the benefits that this creates, to help you find out what it takes to break free from the grind and discover your flavour of freedom, to create your freedom formula. You see, the truth is that everyone invests. Every second of every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy

and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, and sometimes for no impact. GetInvested will help you start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen, not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less, and live your legacy by investing now. You'll enjoy the stories and secrets of high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives

and discover the top tips on how to get started, how to make the most of your investment journey and ultimately to be living your dream, not someone else's. As you engage in each episode, you'll gain the information, inspiration and implementation that you need to get empowered and get invested in imagining and actioning the life that you've always dreamed about. And Get Invested is proudly part of Property Hub, your home for property investment insights and inspiration. Make sure you subscribe now on your favorite podcast player to get every episode of Get Invested and Realty Talk, which is Australia's leading and longest running online property show. It's full of red hot property investing news and insights direct from all

of the industry leaders and influencers. You can also connect with me personally and join the Get invested community of fellow Freedom Fighters at ooshiemartin.com.au or on knowhowproperty.com.au. Now, let's get invested. Hi, Freedom Fighters. What's your ideal lifestyle look like? How much is it going to cost you a year? How long before you want to be in that position? If you do nothing differently, are you actually going to get there and if there's a gap between how you want to live and how you're currently living what's your strategy to bridge it what's your capacity to actually make all that happen and lastly but definitely not loosely what's your relationship with money now these

are among the first questions we ask anyone who comes to see us who's interested in investing in property and they're similar to the key questions that a good financial planner is going to start asking you. But the sad thing is, when we ask these questions, there's generally a very awkward silence. And you can almost hear the crickets on the tumbleweed with nine out of 10 hardworking Aussies looking at us like we've got two heads, or they'll stare off into space and most of them will say something like, gee, bushy, we've never actually thought about that before. And what the hell's that got to do with property? Well, my answer is always the same. Everything. Because if you're not clear on where you're heading you're likely to end up anywhere and probably not where

you want to be and you'll only be as good as the last person you spoke to as you chop and change chasing the next best shiny new thing or worse still you'll do nothing because you mistakenly think you've still got plenty of time and you don't have time now because you're just way too busy so you'll get around to it later but strangely later never actually comes or even worse again you may be like the mesmerized sleepwalking pied piper rats where you mistakenly think that just paying off your home loan and relying on your employer employer superannuation contributions is going to maintain your lifestyle after you finish work a sad reality for most who think like this is that your lifestyle is likely to fall off the cliff into penny pinching poverty

when and if you try and stop work because according to some recent abs stats over 73% of retirees over the age of 65 are surviving on an average of just $15,300 a year, which equates to about $295 a week. Now, I don't know about you, but that doesn't even cover our grocery bill. So the simple fact is that if you want to avoid this, then you need to get invested, to get invested in your knowledge and get invested financially in your future, because you, your income and how you manage your money are your greatest resources. And the time to act as now because time will either end up being your biggest enemy or become your greatest friend, depending on whether you embrace it now or ignore it until later. So let me ask you again,

what's your strategy? What's your strategy to attain and then maintain your ideal lifestyle and achieve your lifestyle goals? Because all of this revolves around you and your relationship with money. So let me ask you a couple more questions. Where do you learn your money habits? Has money ever stressed you out? Has your relationship with money ever felt like a bit of a love-hate relationship? Are you prepared to change how you manage your money? And most importantly, are you willing to get invested in your knowledge and or seek financial advice in order to enjoy a better relationship with money that will help you achieve your long-term lifestyle goals?

The reality is, if you don't have strategies, you haven't thought about it, or your strategies need some fine-tuning or upgrading, then you've landed in exactly the right place at the right time. Because today, we're going to enjoy a deep-dive conversation with Luke Smith, who's recently released his great book, Smart Money Strategy, which helps you to develop strategies and find financial clarity in our world of growing uncertainty and confusion. Luke's affectionately known as the strategy stacker,

which I can't wait to get into. Following his 20 years of success as a financial planner, helping countless hard-working Aussies like you to understand and make the most of your financial options. And this has resulted in his weekly show, The Strategy Stacker, Luke Talks Money, on radio station 2CC, Talking Canberra, that you can also listen to wherever you hear your podcasts. So today, you're going to learn the truths and foundations about money and how to develop your own strategies. And we're going to shift your thinking, your actions, and your habits so that years to come you're not going to be plagued by regret and you won't be catching yourself saying

oh if only i did this or i wish i'd done that but instead you'll be saying i'm glad i did this and now i can do that because today you're going to start learning and doing things that your future self and your family is going to thank you for so let's get into it and welcome and let's get invested luke mate thanks for having me mate uh really looking forward to diving into this i had had a good read of your book but uh before we sort of dive into that uh seriously for those who don't know you mate uh what do you do differently and more importantly why do you do what you do like well it's quite interesting you say that because it's it's one of those occupations that i thought i'll have a go at this 23 years ago um joined the industry late 2000 and sort of evolved

the career from there um and having grown up in a household where we sat at the dinner table and we had a chat and we spoke about things telling stories and and explaining things and and learning as a kid to be able to communicate was one of the greatest things that i think you know we were accidentally sort of handed by my parents um which i think a lot of younger kids struggle with now because life's so hectic you're dropping off and swimming you're going to cheer leading your written subway in the car and as an employer i find it's it's harder and harder to find those kids that have really good banner they might be academically amazing um so i've i've found this industry very very interesting because there was a bias there to try and be able to come up

with the strategies which i really liked um and over time building up a career in the industry has given me the ability to see a raft of different situations and try and come up with ways to help people move forwards um and that's really been the basis of how i've always tried to sort of give the advice is how can we take something that can be a little bit frightening a little bit daunting and as you just said then a little bit time consuming in a very very hectic world break it down into english and then try and help people move forwards and and hold their hand you know we're very much a business where we hold hands um and where a traditional advisor may say well here your investments and you can you know come and see me when you like we're far more engaged in

that sense because for me retirement is really the peace of mind to do the things you want to do when and how you want to do them and your resource pool might be your trust your super fund your rental properties you know your ability to work you know a lot of people don't consider work a resource but COVID has taught us that spending a lot of time at home is very difficult and can be very boring and i've got clients that are 50 and retired and working part-time i've got clients that are 75 and working part-time because some people actually really love what they do um you know and and i've seen that in in my lifetime you know i'm very fortunate that my father has done what he has loved probably since he was six or seven and now at 75 still does work in that space

on a part-time basis but if you let him do it for free he'd do it for free you know so in a way it's his own worst enemy so working with people over that journey has really been a case of as you sort of said have some direction have some goals and and i you know in our book we talk about start with why and come backwards from there because if you're rudderless um you know you can turn around and go oh i've been meaning to do that since the kids were born and all of a sudden they're 44 and you're going how do i get here i never thought i'd be 60 um come and sit down in my office and say something like so this super thing or this property thing should i start looking at that and you i just wanted to put my head in my hands many years ago and that was where we we started

the radio show as an education tool just to try and get people comfortable with the acronyms in a very acronym driven industry and break them down and say look salary sacrifice personal deductible contribution re-contribution it doesn't matter what it is you just need to put one foot in front of the other and do a little something a little sooner so you know i think the way you've been coming at it on your show is awesome because it makes people realize that hey i can do something and this misconception that i need a million bucks to start couldn't be further from the truth so you know i think it's it's going to be an interesting chat today yeah i love it mate so Well, just to sort of dig a little bit deeper and perhaps to get a bit of a reader's digest of your journey so far, mate, I'd love for you to share with us your own investment journey in terms of we've invested your time and energy and money over the years and how has this led you to where you are and what you're doing today, mate?

Yeah, so I finished school and I finished year 12. And if you'd said to me at the end of year 12, you're probably going to study for the next eight to 10 years, I reckon I'd have slapped you. because coming out of school, school wasn't a thing for me. And my dad always said to me, he goes, listen, just do enough to get a good score because you'll find something you have interest in later and then you may have precluded your ability to actually join that industry or go back and study or do something.

So, you know, I finished year 12, got a TER and then thought, well, I'm really good at chatting to people. we'd spend a fair bit of time traveling around as kids because my father's a soccer coach and i thought well working in a hotel looks quite attractive um and he he took a he took a three month job um being a professional soccer coach he moved to malaysia um and did a three month stint over there that turned into a you know staying in malaysia for more than a decade so i actually went over and um and worked for the hyatt chain um came back to australia and sort of became a bit disillusioned about what real service meant here um and and again had attended meetings

with my father's advisor um who was a very charismatic bloke and you know we left there one day and my dad said you'd actually be really good at doing this because you're good having a chat with people you're very approachable you like the finance side so then i i invested some time and money and went back to studying to to get some accreditation and some education in the field and I joined the industry in 2000 as an entry-level person doing administration for an existing advisor at the time and I was very lucky that I'd taken a job unbeknownst to myself at a very very good place and the gentleman that I worked for whilst he was socially a maniac um he was a lovely guy and was very very astute and very very intelligent and i use a lot of

you know the things that i learned from him over the the four years i was there to this day um and that sort of evolved my exposure to the industry i then ended up getting offered a job and come back to this talking theme i was on a golf course in south australia visiting my younger brother and a guy offered me a job. We actually ended up, as silly as it sounds, catching up every hole because they were playing in front of us and they weren't great golfers, not to say I'm Tiger Woods or anything, but, you know, we kept catching them up.

So we ended up playing the back nine together. And at the end of it, he said, oh, we need somebody to do this. And at that time, I was in a bit of a technical role, writing documents and calculating the numbers and doing that sort of stuff. And he said, well, we really need someone that can do that. Do you want a job? and I sort of said oh yeah we're just playing golf there's probably a few beers involved I

just thought he was being polite but it turns out he was legit and I was actually working there you know two weeks after that date so I did a couple years in Adelaide and then came back to Canberra and I've been working here ever since and Envision Financial came to life in 2016 and it's just sort of continued that philosophy of people should be able to retire with peace of mind and confidence and how can we make sure that we don't have that conversation of oh i'm coming up to 60 what's this super thing or what's this property thing or my friends have been doing this so if we can help people you know achieve those sorts of objectives and do something and you know i say regularly do a little something a little sooner you know which i think is really

you know aligns with your philosophy of it doesn't have to be massive but time can be your friend and I would much rather you do a little something a little sooner than leave it later because I find the outcome of that then results in bigger social changes. You've got to save more money to super your lifestyle changes. You then tend to become disenfranchised with it and that's not why you're trying to do stuff. So I think what you've been saying and, you know,

those leading comments that you made to the show are far more poignant than people realise because I've never met anybody that gets to 60 retires and goes oh look at all these choices I've got geez I'm upset about that you know no one's no one's ever said that to me I generally say to people sacrifice or regret you choose but it's going to be one of them now we can do something about it and just do a little something or you can leave it till you're 59 and then save like crazy till you're 63 when you actually don't want to go to work and you don't want to cut down your hours and you don't want to be doing over time so it's it's about finding that happy medium and i guess that's that started

the journey that that has continued to be the journey and i think that will be my journey until i throw my hands in the air and go all right my work here is done um and and hopefully people can learn things from that and that was that was the driver behind the book strategy strategy strategy not product and we talk about stacking strategies where if you get your foundation like anything right there are then other opportunities that can lead into more growth more options more structures more savings more tax benefits but you've got to get the little things right out of the gate and then build on them from there over time. I love it mate and we're going to dive into the strategy stacking exercise shortly yeah so that we sort of unpack that a little bit more

and I love your comment around you've either got to sacrifice or regret now that that's a that's a really good way to sum it up but mate uh before we sort of start going down that road a little bit sort of still focusing on you and your own journey journey what's what's something unique or interesting about you that you've never shared publicly before um my attitude to to doing things is pretty busted and i say that tongue-in-cheek because i was very fortunate to grow up in an environment where i only ever saw the best so to put some context around that my father ran the institute of sport for the soccer program there for the best part of 20 years um and some household names that you would have seen in the 06 world cup the likes of you the dukes your grellas

your scocos your lucas neils all of those household names that everybody cheered for were all athletes that had come through my father's program at the institute of sport so for me i think the way that you approach things in the environment that you're exposed to has a lot to do with the work ethic and the belief system that you carry forward in your life. I don't believe that you can teach a work ethic. I think you see it and you replicate it to a large extent and I was very fortunate to see that.

And for me, I use the term I'm busted because I saw my father for years and years and years look at football and if you think about those sort of characteristics, he had some sayings that have made a lot of athletes a lot of money you know and he used to say see the ball see the goal keep the ball moving and keep it out of tackling range and we laugh in my family they'll actually probably go on his headstone when he passes and hopefully he'll pass watching some football and he'll have his clipboard on the couch and everybody will be over the moon about it because that's exactly what he'd want to happen but i take those

philosophies and i try and bring them back to the financial world and and use that keep the ball moving okay keep evolving your decisions keep evolving your process keep evolving what you're doing are you buying properties are you buying assets in your own name joint names trusts see the ball see the goal ties into our why conversation why am i doing it have i got the right perspective am i moving forward in a controlled environment i'm not doing things under duress and then keep it at a tackling range protect it secure it use the right vehicles consider a family trust consider a unit trust throw something in an smsf where it's right for you but protect things as much as you want to save and that in in the planning industry then

loops back into do i have income protection you know i i often laugh and say if if you had an atm in the lounge room and it spewed out 200 000 bucks of cash would you insure it and everyone goes oh a hundred percent and then i look through their personal information and say well where's your income protection because you're that you're that atm spewing out money that we then use for other investment options and things like that so i look at that time i had as a kid now whilst i couldn't play at that level um those those values and that belief system and that attitude towards how do we move forward in a best practice environment is no different to what we do in in in meetings how do we do it we review it we execute it like any good sporting team whether

you like afl soccer rugby cricket these people got very good at their chosen occupation by spending hours and hours and hours doing it and then reviewing and measuring their performance and adapting and i think if people can build that analogy into their lifestyle it's it's a way of moving forward with control and power to get the things you want working with the resources that you have because everybody's journey is a little bit different and you don't have to copy the bloke down the road or the lady at work but if you can take those those skill sets and build those out and be hungry um i think it's nothing but positive you know outcomes for from that uh you summed that up really well and that sporting analogy i've often said that you know sport is a microism of

life and just you know that those little pearls that your good father has uh impressed upon you If you apply those and those alone, you're going to go a long way in that context. But, mate, I'd love for you just to pivot a minute and sort of share with us what challenging event in your life so far has brought about your greatest learnings and your best changes, mate? The hardest thing I've had to sort of endure professionally, my business partner.

I had to separate a business. He had some illness and that turned everything on its head. um there was there was some mental health involved um and we had to try and sort of move forward and make a decision and it was somebody that had been a real mentor to me for many many years um and and that situation became untenable um and it forced me to really sort of change the way i approached what i did and it also forced me then to say right now um let's put our big boy pants on and have a crack and i i liken it in a way if you're drowning in the water and the waves are hitting you in the mouth it's very hard to see the sand and the sun

on the beach in front of you because all you're trying to do is not drown and that for me i lost an entire year of my life um in 2015 as a result of what went on um with my interactions with that individual and i look back now and i think that in a way just tipped more more petrol on more flames that i don't think will ever go out um and it tied in with that that i'm already bust that attitude of you know for me now i'm going to say this and this isn't for everybody um but if you're doing 40 hours a week that's just a minimum ticket to the game now i know people will say oh it's work-life balance you need to do this and that and this and whatever else and look i'm not i'm not against that i think that has its place um but if you're not hungry and you're not consistent

then you're going to find it very difficult to look at what other people have and go well i could have had that but and that comes back to that sacrifice and regret comment that I made earlier that you've got a choice and I'm not saying you need to work 80 hours a week for the next 40 years but cash flow fixes a lot of problems and cash flow provides a lot of opportunities when it comes to investing and the speed with which you do things because for numerous decades people have walked in sat down in my office and they've gone Luke we're just average people we're not extravagant and i go oh okay i've never heard that before um and we have a bit of a laugh about it because the next line out of their mouth could be i just need 50 grand a year to live on or i just

need 400 grand a year to live on i'm not extravagant and in your social circle you may not be and i think that's what people need to take from that comment we have a laugh and a joke about it but you need to do what works for you i don't think it really matters what the government says a reasonable lifestyle is because i'm yet to meet anybody that's living on that figure um that actually enjoys what they're doing who doesn't say geez i wish i'd done something sooner geez i wish i'd worked harder geez i wish i'd have bought abc because hindsight's amazing but i think if you can get those if you can get those belief systems in place and work hard i'm an advocate of give it everything you've got and if somebody wants an appointment at you know

10 o'clock i'm not against that um but again i preface that by saying my work ethic is busted because of that wonderful exposure to the best of the best that i had as a kid and that just carried over into the industry that i'm in and my younger brother's the same self-employed extremely successful um in his chosen field he could play soccer good goalkeeper played for many years full-time but it doesn't matter whether you're a banker a bricklayer a concreter a nurse whatever you do if you have that belief system and that that hunger to say right i'm going to chase this um you can you can come out the other side of it with great cash flow and a lot of choice and a lot of peace of mind when it comes to retiring so i look at that and

you know i don't i don't discuss those events um i've definitely never said it in a public form before but for me that really to come out of that event and lose 12 months of your life i just said all right that's it i'm just gonna i'm just gonna tear this up now um and i don't think that'll ever stop yeah i love it mate i love that i appreciate you sharing that uh luke i i'm sort of and we're going to dive into this a little bit deeper in terms of the people you help but uh to sort of set the scene for this i'd love for you to share you know what's your personal relationship with money and investment what's it look like you know it's interesting you say that because i spent some time in london with george kinder at the kinder

institute um and he talks a lot about that about you know what is your relationship with it your view of it because i also find that a lot of what people want to do isn't necessarily expensive um but for me i thought i thought money came from tracksuit pants because when your father's a soccer coach and lives and dies in a tracksuit i never saw him put a proper suit on so i just figured well you go to work in your in your in your tracksuit and if you want lunch money you shake your pants pull the coins out and that's where that's where money comes from right because that's what i saw my mom do to get lunch money when we were kids i thought oh well you don't have to get dressed up to go to work you can go to work in a tracksuit you know many years later

you learn that hang on that's a a very isolated occupation it's very different to the norm but for me it was that was where money came from it came from tracksuit pants um and and a byproduct of you're in the gym at six in the morning and you're finishing training at 7 30 at night and that's just what you do so the harder you work the more money you get the more choices you can have because that was the only role model that I had and he worked a million hours looking after these players at the institute so I just figured well if you go to work at 6 30 in the morning and you come home at 7 30 in the morning that's normal and that's where I say I was very fortunate to be exposed to that work ethic and that environment now again I say there'll be listeners out there

that go well that's not feasible I don't have that occupation that's cool but I also challenge people think well you're probably spending plenty of time on tiktok and youtube on your couch scrolling through meaningless information where you could be contracting subcontracting um and chasing an extra 10 or 20 000 bucks a year if you are hungry um so again it's not for everybody but my relationship with money was always it's a byproduct of your output um and if you need any change shake your dad's tracks in pence i love that analogy mate let's jump to the future a minute then now i'd love for you to paint a picture of your ideal lifestyle

and and what you're investing into both attain and maintain it me personally yeah yeah so i've i've got the risk profile of a rhinoceros um that can be good that can be bad um and and i've had good experiences on both sides i'm you know i'm happy to share them if you like um yeah please yeah okay so here's an example of of buyer beware okay i bought a property on the gold coast 13 months ago two wildly doctored photos um and the most inappropriate disclosure of the viability of an asset you've ever seen on the gold coast um so i didn't have time at when i purchased it to go up and look at it and had i flown up there

got out of the car got back in the car and driven home i would have saved myself hundreds of thousands of dollars um so there's a there's a there's a not so great experience of and i say this tongue-in-cheek for me the gold coast is you know it's the wild wild west more so than any other states for a range of legislative reasons yeah um and a great example of learning from that is go and look at something don't believe what an agent says don't believe what you're given do your own research and be comfortable buying something in a time frame that's appropriate now i bought that property at the end of a year in the most hectic period of my work schedule and went oh it'll be okay it really wasn't um so that was that was a very expensive learning

curve and you say well how can a financial planner do that because like listeners would say i'm busy i'm flat out i didn't have time it'll be okay no make the time if you need a sick day from work fly somewhere look at something and do your do your analysis of whatever it is you're going to buy um i also own commercial assets so i've got um some like-minded mates um where we've done things in unit trusts so we go out and buy a floor of a commercial building put it in a trust and then and do things collectively because i've found in the past that that's a great way of limiting your exposure gaining access to really good quality assets with a smaller capital commitment and as long as you've got like-minded people around you i think that's a great way for people to be able

to put a toe or even a leg in the water without having to go up to their neck right out of the gates um you know so if you've got some like-minded mates and you wanted to do something like that that for me has worked very very well um because my mates will either make me a billionaire or make me bankrupt you know we'll see which way that goes um yeah we had a similar experience with a mountain biking you know interest a couple of years ago and it realizes in a you know separated shoulders and plates and me realizing that i'm not 15 anymore so you know i've i've got i've got property i've bought for my kids so here's another example i've got two little girls uh five and seven frank frank and boo boo and i bought them a house as a parent um with everything

that's going on in the world against my better judgment when you look at the numbers yeah um i bought them a house with my dad hat on and said well there's something i can sit in a trust so that i've got an asset that can generate rent yep i've then got an asset in a structure that provides some capital protection and some distribution control over income and capital gain down the road but primarily they can get to to 18 and 20 and go to school and okay here's a house now that that ties into my why as a parent maybe not my why as a financial planner but it doesn't need to be financial if your why says this is what makes me feel good and feel safe then you consider those options and you know the security of my kids future and

being frightened as to well what could a house cost in 15 16 years when they get to 18 or 20 if i've got the capacity to put something on the shelf now pay it off generate some rent and have it in a structure like a family trust that's a great vehicle for choice then you know that was something that we consider doing my wife and I and and that's what happened you know and I'll just continue to do that sort of stuff over time also buy shares I also have you know self-managed super fund so you know it it doesn't really matter the level of risk you take on as long as you're actively doing something because a lot of these vehicles they're not risky and I guess a big misconception I have people come in and say is oh you know super's risky or that's risky or

this is anything in isolation can be risky but a family trust a super fund a self-managed super fund anything like that is just a vehicle to hold assets you bring in your risk when you then start saying am i going to buy commonwealth bank shares or am i going to buy a diamond mine in uganda slightly different level of risk just like saying i'm going to buy a property in this location over that one whilst they're both property assets they have inherently different levels of risk and that's where people need to be comfortable with what's my strategy what's my structure in other words what am i going to buy it in and then what am i actually buying because the house the share the etf the managed fund the commercial building they're just the wheels of

the car you need to be able to say what's my strategy why am i buying it why am i acquiring this asset and what is it doing for me and then where am i going to buy it do i buy it in joint names do i buy it in a family trust do i buy it in you know my wife's name because she makes 600 grand and i make 50 but then you need to be thinking well what about if we sell it you don't want to then go oh well you get some tax deductions which you know to a large extent you haven't had to get for a decade because you can't negatively gear something at two percent yeah so then you sell it and you've got 100 of the gain in one person's name because you haven't thought about why you haven't thought with the end in mind and said well we'll buy it jointly because the tax

benefits of negative year well you know you could argue good bad or indifferent but when i sell it and i've got a massive capital gain i want to be able to spread it out to as many tax effective locations as possible so i always say to clients buy something with the end in mind and if you get some benefits along the journey happy days but buying something for a tax deduction I think is, you know, it's dangerous because that capital gain side of things really doesn't get considered. They're just worried about the income deduction while you're holding. Absolutely.

Yeah. You know, I say I'll buy just about anything provided that, you know, there's that cash flow there. I'm a big advocate of paid off. I'm not a big advocate of, you know, holding things just for it. I'm a big advocate of interest only. with an offset account especially for people with very solid cash flow because if you can give as little to the bank as possible and then hammer that offset account and pay it down as a planner

i always then end up with this confronting conversation with somebody's accountant but they need a tax deduction but for me as a planner when they walk in at 60 and say can i retire and i go oh there's two million dollar house with a million dollar debt and it's neutrally geared for me that doesn't exist no we're not getting income out of it and if we exactly you can't you can't live off capital growth can you that's right you need that income that's right so you know for me i'm a big advocate personally i've paid off paid off paid off um and then and then repeat because that snowball gets very very big and very very quick um because you pay something down you've now got your cash flow savings and that rent and that cash flow savings and then two

property's rent and that's all a function of people's ability to save and everybody's in a slightly different boat but if you're actively doing something i'd say to people buy the cheapest thing you can afford to pay off as quickly as possible over buying the forever home and maxing yourself out because some of the numbers i'm seeing with new clients coming in at the moment it is scary it is scary they're putting a dirty great noose around their neck and living on baked beans and dog food, but just to fund the Taj Mahal and then they've got now a horsepower to do anything else and that cash flow that you spoke about at the time when you need it,

which is when you don't want to work as hard as what you always have, there's no opportunity to create it. Now, I love that. Mate, you've talked about, you know, why and you've talked about the Indian mind. What does the Indian mind and your why look like? What's your why and what's your end game? Well, it's funny you say that because I, full disclosure,

I nearly retired just before COVID. I had somebody approach me and say, look, I'd like to acquire your business. I'd like you to stay on for a couple of years and then you can go out to pasture. And for me, that really wasn't the end game. The end game for me was if I could sell, receive a capital sum,

and then continue working on two or three days a week to look after the clients that I agreed to, in principle, see through to retirement. I said, I'm more than happy to stay on and work a couple of days a week and look after X number of clients and you can build whatever you need around it. That was really my objective and is to this day still something that I'm, you know, working towards achieving at the right time.

So that for me in a perfect world, if you said, oh, listen, you know, I've agreed with my wife to go to 50 and then reassess in saying that my wife also you know asked me to buy her a farm and and you know anybody that has a farm knows that that is just a bottomless pit of cash flow um and i just not growing up on land it's it's the the scale is frightens me every day but you know what it'll be a lovely asset at the end of it where my kids can get off an ipad they can get on their horses they can crash their motorbikes their mum's a nurse if they break something she can fix it um and that was really again you say why would i buy an asset i bought a farm uh 18 months oh 12 18 months ago yeah and i've been

building it ever since and my why there wasn't to make money sure from a capital perspective you've got acreage and you can build homes and values go up over time like most property assets but my why there was really get the kids off an ipad yeah and get the kids on a motorbike get kids on a horse get them climbing in the dirt you know that that was my why yeah and align with with with financial outcome from a capital perspective sure it was up to my wife she'd be living there next week um so that will be a work in progress but again it came back to my why of well i can own something that my kids will get benefit from at a very young age and put an ipad down and and that for me i thought was more important um than trying to buy potentially another asset and generate

income from it um so if i could work you know two or three days a week and look after long-standing clients for many many years to come and then hand over all of the running side of things that for me would you know be an ideal spot where we can continue the radio show you know potentially write another book and and move more down that education space because I think there's a huge huge void and I think the banks the banks leaving the financial planning industry was a good thing because people were always frightened to go to a bank for fear of having something stuffed down their throat yeah um and it's funny because clients will come in here and we'll get to the end of the meeting and they'll go okay so what are we going to use so i don't we didn't didn't

get there you know we talked about these six or seven strategies but we actually didn't talk about a product did we and you can see them both go nah no we thought you might but you know we haven't because i don't i don't have anything to sell people yeah you know all you can do is provide strategies and information and again that that choice for them to invest in themselves to widen their knowledge um and and broaden their understanding of opportunities at a younger age fantastic you know yeah you know that's that's all we can try and do so if i can keep doing that for many years to come in a reduced capacity and maybe see my kids you know crash their bike because the downside of having a busted work ethic is you know when your only goal in life

is to get home at 7.30 to read books. You don't see a great deal of them. Now, the parents out there will say, oh, well, you know, you're abandoning your children. But, you know, if you can give them the ability, and I say this to my wife regularly, my sole purpose in life as a father is to be able to say yes when I need to.

And if I can do that as a by-product of what I do to generate an income and fund my family, if I can say yes, then, you know, the kids can't ask for too much more. brilliant absolutely brilliant and probably a good segue now into sort of starting to deep dive in into the book and the financial planning piece which is something that you're very passionate about but before before i do that uh and because you've you've talked to a lot of people over the years and sort of set the scene for that what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see

people make around money assumptions the biggest the biggest problem people have i think is their own assumption of what's possible listening to people outside of the field and I liken that to most industries you know you speak to you know people that have been through a divorce and 99.9% of people will say oh well my wife took everything or he took everything or any side of it when actual fact you don't know what's actually going on in the background and I think that for me that assumption of what you can and can't do is people's actual personal limitation they put on themselves through no reason at all because i'll have people come in and say well we were going to do this but we can't put that money into super i was going to buy that but i can't buy that in

that structure really why not oh because billy at work said that that doesn't work okay what does billy do billy's a sparky okay cool and if you give me some red blue green wires and a spanner you'll know i won't be long for this earth right so i don't bother doing any of that stuff and anyone that knows me you can ask my wife these hands are useless they really are you know i wouldn't make it as a laborer um i'm with you mate yeah and and but that's why i don't i don't tinker with things at home and i think that's one of the biggest things people struggle with is they have these preconceived idea of what's possible and when you actually sit down and say well you could do that there or you could put that in here or you could make a contribution here and that'll

save you that in tax they go oh and they look at each other and then they go so we should have been doing this like five or ten years ago yeah they go oh yeah you know so i think if you go into something with an open mind and consider things that you may not have even thought about that that can be a very very positive and engaging sort of conversation around well what is possible as opposed to what is not possible or the assumption that you can't do something because you don't as we said at the start you don't need massive money to start doing things and the benefit of compounding in time can be very beneficial so i think if if people could get over that hurdle um i think they'll be in a much better position going forward but that that for me would primarily be that and

leaving stuff too late you know which i think your intro you know reiterated a thousand times which i think is awesome do do something sooner don't leave it too late because it's it's just too hard and you're too ingrained in your behavior and you may have actually missed out on significant opportunities by just not knowing what's possible yeah 100 agree mate no that's a it's a great entree into your awesome book smart money strategy which i've really enjoyed reading uh just just to expand on that uh why did you write it what are some of the key questions uh that the book answers what are some of the key messages and who's who's best suited to have a read yeah so we wrote the book because it was really an extension of the radio show um

i found that you know over the years that we've had the radio show on two double c people have come in and the nicest compliment i could ever get after people listen for a little bit like you'd experience is they build a rapport with you and they get to know you and they learn the analogies that you use um and they come in sit down and say look i just get the way you explain stuff and rightly or wrongly they they they have an affiliation with you they know the language that you use and i think that for me the the objective there was to break down that fear barrier of actually reaching out to get advice because i appreciate firsthand it's it's a scary topic for some people to talk about it can be very confronting um because i'm yet to meet anybody

that comes in with a budget that's accurate um but that's a that's a discussion for another show but that that then sort of led us to say well how could we give people strategic confidence to again invest in themselves and further their readings and their basic knowledge and that's how the book came to life and it took a couple of years to write then we had sort of COVID and that sort of shelled it for a little while but we wrote it on the premise that there are various strategies for various stages of your life and depending on where you are along that journey there are things that you could do and then add to which brought us to that stacking concept of okay so you've got a good budget great and you're putting some money into super and

you're paying off a little extra into your home so now you're filling up your offset account now can we use that money in that offset account for a deposit on another property could we use that money for a deductible super contribution to lower your tax and that's where that strategy stacking concept came from so we wrote it full of strategy and not product because there's no product in the book it's not going to tell you which super funds the best because on any given day you could argue any of them are yep the benefit is not what it's in it's getting it in whether it's getting it into super getting it into an investment property getting it into a commercial premise that you run your business out of through your smsf whatever it may be it's the

active choice to be proactive um and that for me was really what we tried to build out in the book of okay well i'm a young couple and we bought our first home what can we do to oh the kids are now at school and we've got school fees but we've got better incomes so we've got more surplus discretionary cash where do we put that to well i'm a couple of years from retirement now how can i use pensions to maximize deductions how can i use transition to retirement because i'd really love to do three days not five or hands up i've had enough how do i start a pension and then manage my tax in retirement in conjunction with a center link consideration your rents your assets and all the other resources that you have at the time so it's something that people can just keep on the

on the on the coffee table as my mum said you keep it in the toilet you know and i really like what what wiley did in that they they've put the index through the fanned open section of the book you know like your old binders that when you're at the tabs well they've printed the tabs into the the the fanned out part of the book whenever that part's called you can jump straight to if the super bit interest you right jump to the super bit you want to jump to the retirement bit you can jump to that as well so there's there's stuff in there for all stages of life and we wanted to write it as something that will evolve because your situation does change and your opportunities do change and the strategies that you can use change but if you know about them then you can

really try and do them at the right time and one of the things that we built out of it was a calendar so we have an online calendar where each of the strategies can be done at certain times in the years so we've we've marked it in the calendar so if you want to hide the link it into your calendar first of july super split to my older husband super split to my older wife because then i'll get my money sooner that's one where i say oh you know there's six or seven years age difference do you super split what split what yeah yeah the bills no split your super yeah what do you mean great strategy to get your money sooner if they call it that i married well strategy everybody he'd be all over it you know but it's one of those again assumptions that you can't do it

you actually can but it's very much a use it or lose it strategy so you know that was that was the backbone of my thinking um and it's written for my mum because my mum's sick of my mum's sick of testing my analogies you know my stories and you know hey mum if i was going to explain this just listen to this little story and tell me what you get from it it's got to the point now where She goes, look, come over, eat my food, and go home. I don't want you to be a test pilot for your analogies any longer. I've had enough, you know. I love it, mate.

But you touch on the five proofs about money. Can you just briefly run us through what they are? Yeah, so if I sort of read them off the list, we've got, you know, education doesn't prepare you for your adult life. And really, you know, what we take from that is you learn lots of very useful stuff at school. You also learn loads of useless stuff at school. but what you leave year 12 with actually probably doesn't help you from a financial literacy

perspective which i think is an issue your parents probably didn't prepare you for your financial life now depending on what you're exposed to you could be in the the good or unfortunate bucket here and that'll just be a byproduct of what mum and dad have done over their working life so your values and i said at the start of the show i was extremely fortunate to grow up in a high performance environment um where that was all we knew so we just put that into everything we did um some some people may not be that fortunate um most people plan for a tax deduction not a lifestyle i think that's dangerous you know i think the tax outcome to a large extent is a byproduct of your why and a byproduct of the reason that you're acquiring or doing something

nothing's going to change if you don't change so you need to learn you need to listen and know we said before about you know these preconceived ideas of what's possible go into something with an open mind i don't go to the doctor and say hey listen google told me that if i take this pill it'll make me seven foot six just listen to what the person has to say you they're there for a reason they probably know a little bit more than you do in their chosen field which again is why i don't touch anything that's got electricity connected to it um and then the last one there is you know to change you need to equip yourself and that's you know that's really where this book and and other forms of education and learning come in because

there are there's a lot of great channels out there you can listen technology has been a huge beneficiary for you know a younger generation you know when my mum and dad were young you didn't have youtube you didn't have podcasts you didn't have phones you didn't have all sorts of stuff so if you didn't read it in a paper or in a library you didn't get access to it now you've got so many platforms to get great information from obviously vet the source because some stuff i've seen on tiktok you know makes the hairs on my arm stand up but again that's a topic for another show um but i think if you you know you said at the start to me you know what what you invest in i think if you invest in yourself your capacity to earn will outstrip the income from just about any

asset over the medium to longer term and i think that's where people generally make a mistake to go out and do a little bit of 40 things rather than committing to two or three solid decisions and then grow your knowledge, spend your time, you know, be hungry, work big hours, save money. You don't need, you know, 60 pairs of shoes. And that's a touchy subject in my house. Just ask Imelda Marcos. Well, it's actually, this is now full disclosure,

it's actually not my wife, it's me. You know, as an avid collector of Jordans, you know, you get to an age where you want the shoes that mum and dad wouldn't buy you as a kid you know 70 or 80 pairs later you sort of go i might have a problem but as a proportion of what and that's really you know where you need to get down to things i'm not against people doing anything from an investment standpoint as a proportion of what you want a flash car cool as a proportion of what you want six investment places that's cool as a proportion of what so as long as you do things in moderation and with control and some some thinking around your why

i'm not against people buying speccy stuff i'm not against bitcoin i'm not against i'm not against anything in moderation um and i think that's where you know you if you can equip yourself with good information and knowledge and learn and you know you're going to have good you're going to have bad look at my experience you know i mean um real estate you know agents on the gold they're not getting Christmas cards from me anytime soon but again that's that's that's this is where you learn right so very very very expensive you know example but you could also have seven or eight very you know positive examples of understanding what's happening in COVID understanding a repricing of market

assets and this is where you know you learn and you listen and you build up a skill set that allow you to make informed decisions on a range of things And that's where, you know, that last one for me, you know, to change you need to equip yourself. Yeah. That's the basis of everything. Absolutely spot on. The other thing that I, and that sort of moves us nicely

into the five foundational principles that you break down in the book, what are they so that we sort of get ahead around that? Yeah, so, you know, and I've got a list of them here because you can evolve them out. And you can call these just about anything, but this is how we've sort of broken them down. respect your earnings you know it's it's about your income and your ability to earn and save as i said earlier your ability to maximize your cash flow and generate income can fix a lot of

problems it can provide a lot of opportunities pay attention to your spending you know everyone comes into my office as i said earlier we're not extravagant well what does that mean i don't know what that means because the next question they'll hit me with is can we retire and i'll flip a coin and go well let's see what we're working with because your resources need to be able to generate that income um if you don't want to work and and understanding your net income position is very important but also where's it going you know very few people walk in sit down and go i'm going to retire in two years and we need 68 412 bucks to live which to a large extent i think is impossible because the cost of living changes life changes life happens but you need to have a general

understanding of where your money's going because if you do want to make super contributions pay off an investment property or buy something else you need to know where it's going and what you're working with um we then say the cost of money is interest you know so if you're using it both positively or negatively it can be your friend or your foe number four is be realistic um and this one for me really talks about staying in your lane um what you see people do on tiktok or youtube or you know at the golf course may or may not be appropriate or even attainable for you and you need to consider things like your income your risk profile and your age because there's there's a lot of people that are a little bit older in the community now that have lived through

a time where the exponential change in the value of a property will probably never be replicated again yeah and what i mean by that is you know you could buy a house for a hundred thousand bucks in 1992 that now might be worth 1.2 2.2 3.3 whatever it may be yeah it's highly unlikely over a 20 or 30 year period that you're going to go and buy a 1.5 million dollar house in a suburb and in two decades it's worth four mil so you've seen that generational uplift in the value of especially property assets um that this younger generation can be influenced by and think well i can do that too 99 of people now don't have the ammo to do that and and that's really why being realistic and i say stay in your lane um because people are coming to my office i'm not yes i'm here to be

your friend but i'm also here to tell you the truth um a bit like a doctor you know you keep lying in the sun there's a very good chance you'll get melanoma yeah people come in here and i say Well, you keep spending like that and there's a very good chance that you'll work until you're 95. Yeah. You know, so be realistic about what's going on. And the last one for me, which, again, as a collector of shoes, reward yourself.

I think too many people get stuck in, well, I'm going to have this by 60, I'm going to have this by 55. I actually break it down with my clients a lot differently and say, right, what are we saving between January and March? And then let's check it out. And if you hit your goals or you exceed your goals, then do whatever you like doing you know buy some shoes have a weekend out take your partner out for dinner go in this day you know reward yourself for the hard work that you've completed so that

you stay engaged i find people becoming disenfranchised because they weren't realistic to start with but then they just ground themselves into the floor um you know there are plenty of fit bodies bouncing around the gym you wouldn't know that looking at me in this movie but you I'm definitely not one of those. But they still go out on a Saturday night and have a couple of drinks and maybe eat a pizza. You can't eat kale chips for three years and hope that you're going to end up lean because nobody likes kale chips that much.

So I think you need to reward yourself. And, you know, I use that gym analogy because, you know, even Dwayne the Rock Johnson has a cheat meal every now and then and he's in great shape. And your finances are the same. set a short-term goal execute it review it execute it you know i come back to that sporting analogy at the start of the show that's exactly what good teams do whether you like afl soccer cricket they go out they play then they'll sit down as a team and review the footage and go well what happened

here okay now we'll train all week on combating something or changing what we do to execute again on the weekend and your financial journey is exactly the same it's not set and forget it's also not look at the share price of something every day just buy good quality stuff repeat it save some money set a goal and if you achieve it then reward yourself it can be a massive reward it could be a little reward it just depends what keeps you engaged and moving forward with a positive attitude to get a you know a positive outcome totally and it comes back to a proportion of what and i like that question you know at what proportion that that's that's the key bit Mate, you touched on the strategy stacking exercise a couple

of times during the discussion. What are the six main types of strategies that we need to develop and what are the key elements of each in that strategy stacking approach if you're going to do that? Well, I think if you're going to come at it, you need to start with why and buy an asset that aligns with why you're doing something. I very often have people come in and say, oh, well, I've got these.

Oh, really? Why have you got them? oh just cause and why have you still got that one oh well we bought that about 15 years ago and it's just sitting there are you getting any income from it nah has it gone up in value nah so why are we holding it again and i think people lose sight of you know the the outcome of the why of the asset for your why of why you're doing it you know so i think people need to come at that they need to be able to maintain something with consistency and what i mean is don't don't set unrealistic goals for yourself because when you're building a stack you need the foundation of that

to be very good you know when we're talking about different stages of life you know it could be that well i want x amount in my super fund all right well are you saving enough to make contributions to get yourself to a capital level that will allow you to generate an income stream of x have i paid down my properties it's one thing to say i want six but do you have the cash flow to fill up some offset accounts you know so when we talk about stacking strategies we need a good solid foundation to be able to then build on because like anything and i use that gym analogy and if you walked in the gym on day one and started bench pressing 200 kilos there's a very good chance that bar's going straight through you or you're going to be in hospital for the next

four weeks or walking around like you've had five bags of onions put under your arms you know we build up to stuff go in do a little bit then build on it and have a bit more and build on it and have a bit more you don't need to race out and have six properties right out of the gates and these you know it's very tempting to see stuff online again that says oh you can have 10 properties in 12 months and carry the most amazing amount of frightening debt that a rhinoceros couldn't handle so when we talk about strategies they need to evolve with your timing of life and your resources and that's really where people need to consider okay i've got a good budget i know what i can save okay i've gone and bought a property great what what entity did i buy it in i bought

it in a family trust okay it's neutrally geared great i can get 20 000 30 000 40 50 60 000 in my offset to pay that down. Now I've got more positive cash flow coming out from a rental perspective. Now I can use that to make a deductible super contribution to lower my personal tax. Now I'm building super, reducing my tax. So these strategies start to evolve and really take on a life of their own. Now you could have two or three strategies stacked, and that might be enough for you. You might have the resources to have six or seven, and that might be great for you too but it's really about making sure that you're moving forward in a positive controlled direction and then again through your reading and your learning

consider other things that evolve from good behavior i've paid that down now i've got more cash flow okay i've got fifty thousand dollars of rent from property eight i could borrow six hundred thousand dollars of money interest only i could have 40 or 50 of interest costs now that next one's neutrally geared and i can focus my savings into that offset account into that super fund into that building for my business now i've got premise security for my welding factory and i've got it in my self-managed super fund so i've got business continuity i've got rent i've got a growing asset in the right structure but you only end up with those by freeing up cash flow and building on the basic principles and then elaborating out as your situation changes over

your working life with the aim of hopefully getting a little bit later in your working career and being able to hammer huge amounts of money into either debt assets super or you know investment properties that can further consolidate your capital position because a lot of people don't like touching capital and i've always been a big advocate of income and if there's a million dollars in the bin and you can pull 50 40 to 50 out without touching capital i find that makes people nice and warm and fuzzy when they think about it because their longevity has been protected and if you sit down and work that out and say well if you don't need 50 you need 70 if you took 20 000 out of a million that's still going to last for a very very long time where you have a strong

income stream yeah that for me what am i what have i got what am i getting out of it and income is always the bias to peace of mind in retirement yeah great maybe the six main types of strategies that you cover can just very briefly touch on what those six are yeah so we talk about um strategy structure the underlying premise of your investment the tax makeup of what it is and then what's the outcome of that strategy is it for capital is it for income is it short term is it long term so if people can build out those types of key sort of concepts it'll help you align your why with your retirement date and then it may or may not drive you to be a little bit more hungry and earn a few more dollars and get that promotion to speed up the process along the way so you know again

it's not for everybody um and there'll be listeners out there that go well you know i like going home at 437 and you know that's great that works for me that's cool yeah that's cool um that's why you know lions hunt and gazelles run and the gazelle the gazelle you know the the story famously goes the gazelle runs just enough to outrun the lion you or to outrun the gazelle behind it exactly you don't have to be last you just got to be second last and then you survive yeah i'd love that lions i guess my point is lions like chasing things they're hungry you know and and i liken that to in a way your high income professional you know your pressure driven individual your self-employed person that's willing to commit and and and go neck deep in

something because they believe in it and they're suitably remunerated for it that then fuels other opportunities the problem is that with kids coming out of school and everybody getting a ribbon the gazelles look over at what the lions have and go oh well why don't i have that but they've only run just enough to not get eaten so again it comes back to that are you hungry are you not and what have you been exposed to in relation to your work ethic and your belief system and what have you done to try and educate yourself to try and explore other opportunities that you may not have realized were just around the corner that could potentially provide a significant amount of peace of mind but also some investment opportunities over your work and life

yeah and i love that mate mate uh like a lump of it unfortunately for for some reason uh financial planning often gets a bit of a bad rap uh i'd love for you to sort of explain to us you know what distinguishes a really good financial planner from an average one and and why would a hard-working aussie couple engage a good financial planner well i think like anything you need to do your research um and as i think you hit the nail on the head we're in the business of trust and peace of mind if i'm buying a door handle i know what i'm going to get i can go into bunnings i can look at 50 different door handles i know what it is i know how it works i know where it's going to go i probably can't install it as i said earlier because i'm hopeless but i'll get

someone in to do that trust is very different trust you build over time um and i think people could do a lot to try and get an understanding of who you could potentially deal with get some information about the individual and do some research around you know who are they licensed with how do they provide advice what's the basis of of how they operate you know are they there to sell products are they there to give advice you know in in my practice we don't have any product you know we don't have our own super fund we don't have our own investment option we don't have our own australian equities product like some larger institutions yeah i think assuming bigger is safer is actually more dangerous because prior to the banks leaving the industry if you walked into cba

you ended up with a colonial product if you walked in a nab you ended up with mlc and so on and so on so that vertical integration of larger dealer groups can be very dangerous because like it or not there's an inherent bias there to use products that are offered by the people that provide your license um for me it's really about you know what's our strategy what's our structure and then what do we buy um so look at the approved product list of the person that you're talking to if it's all focused through one or two providers you know that there probably isn't some transparency there around what else they could use or it's just not their style um i think people should get a handle on the scope of advice that they can get from somebody just because you go to a financial

advisor doesn't mean they're going to say they're happy recommending listed shares or commercial property or a self-managed super fund because that's a very specialized area that some advisors just by choice and it doesn't mean they're good or bad it's just by choice they don't deal in that area i know we don't deal with aged care like i made a choice a number of years ago to say look that that is a skull-breaking industry um that if you need to stay on top of them takes a huge amount of time and focus and i just chose as a service provider to just not provide advice in that area so i'll refer that to people that specialize in that space so that clients can get what they need and i think aligning what you need with what somebody's going to offer is is

good but I think people could actually hurt themselves more than they realize by just not finding out yeah and I think that's what I like people to take from today is yeah find out and and again my I said you don't know what you don't know at a lunch in 2011 um and it's it's stuck like glue ever since and I think it's very very relevant in this space and in all facets of life because if you've only ever done something one way, you may assume that that's the only way to do it. And it could be good and it might be appropriate and it might not be.

And that's the case with all products or structures or opportunities that you invest in. There could be other ways to do things, you know, and we've seen the evolution of ETFs, exchange-traded funds, you know. It was something that wholesale professionals used 20 years ago that your average mum and dad now can go out and open an account with five grand and buy the asx 300 at a cost of 0.25 yeah you know 0.15 like they are wonderfully cost-effective

vehicles that give lovely diversification but if you don't know what an etf is you could be sitting in an old school managed fund getting limited outperformance and paying one percent for the privilege yeah exactly so again it's that it comes back to that learning and that education piece and and a good advisor will ask the right questions yeah and i think that's the case of good lawyers and and good accountants it's not the everyday things that get laid out in front of you it's the ability to sort of lift up a couple of rocks and you know get to the bottom of what's really going on yeah um and and bottom yeah we're using everything that's available to us no extremely well said mate it's it's about being open and asking the questions that

is the piece that uh people don't do enough of it well i um i could talk for hours about this and i reckon we'll get you back to dive into some of the specific stuff that we just haven't had a chance to touch on touch on today uh and i'd love to do that because i love your analogies and the way you explain things in a language that that everyone can understand but i want to sort of jump now into what i affectionately call the ambush round which is the or the bushfire lightning round where I give you a blindfold and a cigarette and ask you the podcast fast for. Mate, kick

that off. What's your favourite quote and why? I saw this on I'm an avid golfer. Pre-kids, I could get it around a little bit. I can still get it around a little bit, just not as well because my kids are five and seven. But

you don't always get what you wish for, but you always get what you work for. And I saw that in a show one of the golf shows on the the wall of camilla bajagas's house who was uh the colombian golfer um and i thought that that for me is is perfect um if if you don't want to try and chase things and you're happy with whatever okay is cool that's totally fine and i'm not saying at all today you know go out and work 100 hours get nine jobs and you know drive yourself into the ground

But also remember that if you don't practice something, you have no right to get upset. And I look at, you know, the exposure I had as a kid in football. You know, all I ever saw was repetition, execute, review, repetition, execute, review. And with good direction and good boundaries, people can get far better than they realise. But if you do nothing, then don't get upset that somebody's got a Ferrari.

Don't get upset that somebody's retired at 50. Don't get upset that they've got a place in the Maldives. because they've committed to doing things that you haven't. So, you know, you don't always get what you wish for, but you always get what you work for. I think that, you know, my kids can say that at five. So maybe I'm not a good parent. I don't know.

I reckon that's a cracker, mate. No, that's awesome. I want to switch to the literary field for a minute. And apart from your great book, Smart Money Strategy, what's the top book that you'd recommend we read and why? I went soft on this. I think anything that can give you a better understanding of something you have an interest in because without an interest you won't stick to it you do things in your life for your parents

you do things in life for your kids but I think this is one of those things where you're going to commit your very precious time to reading something and consuming something that you have an interest in that can help you I think that's 90% of the battle because we're so time poor now with everything that goes on in the world i think any book that you have an interest in that can move you forward in a positive sense is is fantastic um yep no no well said mate that's i'll go i'll go soft on that one but you know no no that's very well said totally agree with you there and i'm asking this question of the right person what's both the worst and the best piece of investment advice that you've ever received um all right so best piece of advice um be happy

saying no because you can't be everything to everybody um and also i think do a little more a little sooner that one's really resonated with me as i've seen people over my working life come in too late having just always said they didn't have the time which i think was a great comment you made at the start they could have done something they just didn't know what to do and had you made that decision for them they probably would have committed to it yeah um the the the worst piece of advice um is well i've got a few here assuming something doubles every 10 years i think is super dangerous um and whoever wrote that needs a kick in the jackson um but also do this for me i'd like do this for yourself because it worked for me

you know and again doing things that other people have had success in for a different why with different resources i think can become very disenfranchising because you may not have stayed in your lane as i said earlier you know oh these people did this and they've had a great outcome you know a screaming example of that is massive advocates of bitcoin all took a massive leap very very early on yeah i'm yet to meet anybody that's a massive advocate of bitcoin coming in late to the game going oh this is life-changing exactly so understand where somebody's comments are coming from because they may not be right for you because of the generation you're in the occupation you're in and your ability to save and use cash flow to do things yeah brilliantly said mate uh i want to

switch into the the habit field for a minute so now what's a personal happy habit a rewarding ritual or a david's discipline that you employ that's contributed most to your success today um work work and work and work and work and and when i say work be committed to the longer term outcome um and i find the conversations that i have with more wealthy people they don't talk about get money now they talk about get money later they talk about get wealth later they talk about things with a medium to longer term time frame i find people with limited resources worry about getting paid on friday and i think that attitude can influence the decisions you make and the way that you approach things so you know i think i was never

the kid that had it first you know and i had mates that that out earned me for you know a decade or more um but a byproduct of being consistent and being hungry is that you build something over of time in a controlled environment and that reduces the fall off that reduces the crashes that reduces the damage the losses if you just keep chugging along and move forward positively and instill good work behaviors um i think you'll always prosper because it's it's always the act of doing something that has a positive connotation on the value of asset at the end yeah i think this generation now again love them or hate them they want it all now and they want it all by friday and the environment that they've grown up in has damaged their view of again their perception

of normal and i don't think it's in a good way no they want instant gratification they want to run the joint two weeks out of school which great no problems but if you keep grinding away you'll find off you you blink and you know decades later you you end up with assets and incomes and and control over your future because you committed over the longer term not not short term yeah 100 agree mate and that that's a subject on its own in terms of motivating people to look on the instant now to delay gratification it comes back to that sacrifice versus regret comment that you made earlier but mate i really enjoyed our conversation uh as i say could could really uh go on for hours and and we'll get you back to sort of dive into some of that but just to sort of bring it all to

a logical conclusion what are some of the key takeaways for hard-working Aussies that you'd like us to take away from our chat today so do something a little sooner it doesn't have to be big don't assume that what your mates are telling you is accurate and and pay if you do nothing else pay for an hour or two of somebody's time um with technology now where it is you know I know for us we've got people all over the world i've got people watch a youtube channel you know i speak to embassies regularly in countries half of them i never heard of um but that that reach of material use it in your you know use it to your advantage learn read listen repeat execute and just start ideas that are small and then give it some time to grow and you don't need to race out and buy

massive assets you know i touched on earlier an approach that my mates and i have of collectively doing things so that you've got less commitment and less risk think about doing that you know think about getting together with like-minded friends or or you know business owners or whatever it may be and collectively do something now you need to put the the terms and conditions and the structure around that but that's a great way for people to say well i'm not going to go and buy a million dollar building but i can get five friends and we throw 200 in each you've got far less risk you've got an opportunity to make some money and you've got a good quality asset that's structured correctly so you know think a bit outside the box don't just think that you

need to go it alone um the other one i'd say is is be realistic you know you know i know that's in the list but you're not going to make you're not going to double your money overnight but again if you understand what you're working with and if you took half of what you could save and committed it to something over the longer term you've still got a buffer there just in case and that's why I'm always pro-offset account because being able to get hold of some cash is great. But get things to the point where they're either neutrally geared

or you're directing your savings into something that provides other opportunities. And review why you hold your assets. Having something, as I said earlier, having something just because isn't going to last long in my office because it's not an answer. But get some advice around your structuring.

and the one that i think is really underutilized that is becoming more and more of an issue as we have blended families and an older generation that have significant wealth is the estate planning side of stuff you know a will is not a simple document and you do not under any circumstances get one from the post office you know so i think thinking outside of the box and considering the decision you make with the end in mind will help you get really good structural advice around where to hold the asset um and do your research you know nothing hurts me more than when people come in sit down and go so we bought this place on the weekend and we're going to throw it in our super fund scary mate that's very scary but the look on their face

or the look on my face you know they go oh um is that not a good thing um don't assume as i said earlier don't assume look at my example i thought those photos were real no they weren't you know so go and look go and check out do your research and then you can do things with confidence and then repeat it in a controlled manner and if people can come at their investment life like that and take advantage of strategies that become available to them at that stage of their their journey you can get yourself in a position where you have a huge asset base and you haven't taken significant risk but as you said at the start of the show time has been your friend and you can you can generate an income stream that gives you the peace of mind you want and if you want to keep

working like my dad because you're a psycho and you love it great yeah knock yourself out but to choose not to is is also a wonderful position to be in yeah well just to have the choice to make that decision mate that is the key for me it's it comes all back to are you putting in position where you have the choices or are you not doing something and ending up with no choice? And you can't get upset about that as well, right? You can't get upset about not having that choice because indirectly that was your choice.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. Whether you've made a choice or not made a choice, you're still making a choice. Correct. Absolutely right. Now, look, being brilliant, mate, for those who really resonated with your message, how can we find out more and get more involved with you?

Yeah, so 62604749 is the number in the office. That's O2 for Canberra. We've got envisionfinancial.com.au on the internet. That's envision with an E. We've got all of our podcasts and all of our radio shows recorded on there. So there's a huge library of information there. We've got the radio show on iTunes and Spotify,

the strategy stack of Luke Talks Money. And we've got the book, Smart Money Strategy, that dropped on Tuesday this week, which is out in Dimex, CBD and Harry Hardhog. It's also on Amazon and Booktopia. And there's a Kindle version for those that like the electronic feel of sliding the page instead of flipping the page.

So there's a little something there for everybody. I love it, mate. Been a great chat. I've had a smile on my face the whole conversation. It's refreshing to talk to someone who knows what they're talking about but communicates in a message that we can all understand and actually add some humour there so that it sticks. I think the fact that you've said that at the end there,

that that are really for the listeners it should be a bit of fun right it shouldn't be scary it shouldn't be daunting it should be a chat i don't wear shoes well i don't wear shoes i don't wear just jordans i wear jordans to work because my wife said if you don't start wearing these things i'm throwing them out so people walk in and they see me in a different pair of trainers and go are you are you serious and that really for me was i mentioned earlier i flew my bike into the tree plate screws and spent six months in a sling and i was always pro suit and for six or eight months while i was in a sling i said to people regularly look i normally have a suit on but you know i've got a t-shirt today and everybody went oh no that's fantastic it's far less confronting you

know you're a big lad it looks a bit dawning um that's far more welcoming and we've run with it ever since because i don't want people to be scared to come in and talk about something that could be difficult for them in an environment that isn't welcoming and overall quite simple Yeah, I 100% agree, mate. It's not the wrapping on the present, it's the contents that counts. And if you make that as appealing to as many people as possible, you're more likely to get the message out there, mate. So, look, really enjoy the chat.

We'll keep the conversation going. But thanks for getting to join us today, mate. Thanks for having me on there, mate. I'll talk to you again soon. Great, thanks, mate. Cheers, buddy. Bye. Thanks for getting invested.

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