Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Part 1 - Abdullah Nouh on humility, hard numbers and higher purpose

Starting point is 00:00:00 I try and get to as many people as I can, but it's more around making them understand that you don't even need to have these 10, 15, 30 properties that all these other people have. You just need to have a good diverse range of different assets and a blend of commercial and residential investments, I think, will hold the client in good stead when it's compounded over 20 years. I think if my dad just had two residential and one commercial, he'll be a self-funded retiree.

Starting point is 00:00:26 Welcome to Get Invested on the Property Hub Podcast Channel. the leading weekly show for Australians who want to learn how to unlock their full self, health and wealth potential. I'm your host, Bushy Martin, and each week I go deep with the best investors, experts, leaders and founders to find out what it takes to break free from the grind, discover freedom and to live by design. Subscribe now and join me and get invested in the life that you really want. Let's get started. Hi Freedom Fighters. Have you ever made a decision that left a real mark? The kind of scar that sort of quietly becomes your success compass? Well, today's story starts right

Starting point is 00:01:09 there. Not with a victory lap, but with a moment of what I would like to call something that every investor fears, that gut punch that forces you to choose. And you're choosing whether to fold or to forge and as you're about to hear today's guest chose to forge and what I love about him and what I read about him isn't his highlight reel it's the head noise that he's turned into headway imagine walking away from a comfortable career a growing family and the safe script to back yourself and to really put yourself in position with a new playbook built on three key things humility hard numbers and high purpose where pain became his professor the market became his mentor and the mission to make sure others didn't learn the hard way so here's what we're

Starting point is 00:02:08 going to open up today and if you're a time poor professional this is going to be your jam what does a real misstep teach you about risk sequencing and sleep at night investing how do you silence shiny object syndrome and buy quality when everyone around you is counting doors not outcomes and how do faith family and service keep you grounded when the market wants you greedy you'll hear the frameworks that he lives by the simple filters that help you pick the right pocket the right street and the right bones before you fall in love with the lounge room and you'll hear why fewer better assets can set you freer sooner and you'll hear how to convert regret into a roadmap so you compound forwards not flinch backwards i'm talking of course about our

Starting point is 00:03:01 special guest abdullah noah the founder of mecca property group as he's about to unpack he cut his teeth in big project land which was construction mining where precision isn't optional. So he brings that discipline to property. Numbers first, street appeal second. He's values led, data driven buyers agent, and he blends residential growth with smart commercial for cashflow ballast. He's a student of supply and demand and a teacher who makes the complex calm. So I'm really excited to deep dive on turning setbacks into strategy, quality over quality and the mindset that makes compounding inventable. So welcome and let's get invested Yeah, Bushi, how are you?

Starting point is 00:03:46 Very good. I've been looking forward to catching up with you for a while, and I'm one of these people who Google stalk because I like to know who I'm talking to. But I guess for those who aren't aware of who you are and what you do, can you start by sort of sharing a bit of a funny story that others tell about you that best sums up who you are? Yeah, well, I don't think this sums up who I am,

Starting point is 00:04:09 but I booked a family holiday two years ago to Sorrento. uh just before new year's eve and uh you know packed the kids in the car we uh we headed down it was a spontaneous sort of um decision and uh we're driving down the uh the mornington peninsula and couldn't find the hotel and uh we realized a bit later it was actually in italy sorrento not sorrento melbourne so i remember a lot of my experience i was at both Sorrento I've been to both Sorrento's actually in there on the morning peninsula they're both beautiful parts of the world yeah google address sent you a name the wrong

Starting point is 00:04:48 consonant by yourself yeah so you know I booked it on booking.com um but then I was I couldn't find the address on google I thought maybe it's just my phone so I knew how to get to Sorrento I probably should have looked into it further so it's fair to say I'm not allowed to book in holidays anymore my wife's not allowed it and uh i got four beautiful kids and i have to say i think each one of them told me how much they disliked me um that that night so we'll drive them back home saved a lot of money though yeah well yeah fair to whittley would have made fun of guys yeah it would have been it would have been um but yeah that's probably one funny story um i don't know if it exemplifies who i am but yeah it's certainly i'm pretty much a laid-back sort of

Starting point is 00:05:31 person like i love it let's sort of switch then into uh you know sort of getting a better sense of who you are professionally uh and i always like to ask this question what do you do differently and why do you do what you do yeah that's a good question um look i think it's more around the why so we you know i think where i find a lot of investors go wrong is they uh they get caught up in the shiny object syndrome they um they don't really understand what they're doing uh they're you know buying maybe because of sentiment or maybe because they want to you know beach house but it's essentially what we do is we try to understand the why i think the why is really important if you can understand the why then the hell becomes you know you know a bit more

Starting point is 00:06:18 streamlined um i think that's probably the difference yeah and that's refreshing because if you've heard me talk at all, it's all about the why. I see way too many people starting at the wrong end. In my view, the property is the last thing you consider. If you have your lifestyle goals and your finance capacity in shape and you've got a very defined and numbers-driven exercise around that that engages and motivates, then quite often you're buying property based on what someone else says or what what feels right at the time rather than how it relates to what the end game is so property is more the vehicle than the than the in that regard so i guess from there then uh what i'd love to do is circle back and go back as far as you would

Starting point is 00:07:08 like to if we can and get you to tell us you know what you've invested your time and your money in over the years and and why and how has it actually then led you to where you are and what you're doing today yeah um look i'd say probably my upbringing like uh you know we grew up in a first generation australian household um parents are egyptian they came in the mid 70s and the relationship with you know money debt um you know was essentially you know you put all the cash in the bank and you don't borrow any money unless it's the house you live in and um yeah you You just put your money in a savings account or in super. So, you know, I think growing up in that household

Starting point is 00:07:52 and seeing what happened during the GFC, my dad was quite a high-income earner. He was a mining engineer up until 2013 when he was forced into retirement. And it's fair to say he's, I think he lost about 45% of his super up until 2011 just due to, you know, the GFC. So seeing, and, you know,

Starting point is 00:08:15 Seeing sort of how vulnerable, you know, or you could say, we can tell you he's on the pension. But, you know, just being, not being a self-funded retiree, given the amount of, you know, opportunities he had, probably really drove me to, you know, see, like, help others. And I saw the impact he had on the family, you know, financially. So it's, you know, it's probably something that burns inside me. And I try and, you know, get to as many people as I can,

Starting point is 00:08:43 But it's more around making them understand that you don't even need to have these 10, 15, 30 properties that all these other people have. You just need to have a good diverse range of different assets and a blend of commercial and residential investments, I think, will hold the client in good stead when it's compounded over 20 years. I think if my dad just had two residential and one commercial, he'll be a self-funded retiree. Yeah, yeah. And sadly, that's the picture for the majority of Australians. And people mistakenly believe that sticking money in the soup is going to maintain their lifestyle when they stop work. You've only got to have an event like the GFC,

Starting point is 00:09:25 and we'll see more of those. If you're totally reliant on one income source to fund your lifestyle when you stop work, then you're putting yourself at serious risk. but the the mistake of thinking well i'll just pay off the home and stick money into super if you're if you're enjoying a good income like your dad then for those people most of those people their lifestyle falls off a cliff and you know i i know what the the current pension is for a couple if you can get it because it's so asset tested and income tested that it's

Starting point is 00:10:02 hard to get anyway you know you're probably dropping from uh triple numbers down to double numbers and we're talking sort of shy of 40 grand a year for a couple to survive on uh in their golden years when they think they're going to be doing great things so i love the fact that you've been able to see that in your father and go right okay well i'm going to do it differently uh let's expand on that so i know that you sort of jumped into the the mining arena i can understand why Were you a firefighter? Talk us through that part of the journey. Yeah, I was a firefighter.

Starting point is 00:10:36 So I was based in Melbourne, grew up in Melbourne, but I was watching Current Affair, as you do when you're 18 years old. But I realized that there was an ad saying that they were looking for like 95,000 employees, like they were vacant positions. I thought, well, might as well go there and see if I can get a job. And I was doing university at the time, part-time. um and yeah i just flew there and i basically uh went into every single recruitment agency to someone to give me an opportunity and there was a role at a diamond mine it was a six week or

Starting point is 00:11:12 12 week role they were getting ready for the wet season shut down and the lady looked at me and said i don't know how you're gonna go here you you probably are gonna give up but i'm just gonna give you a crack because you're very persistent so yes i've just i just um i i i got it and i i'm you know i had the job for 12 weeks and then they invited me back in march and in the meantime i went to a gold mine so i worked at the diamond mine and the gold mine um and there were two look the reason why i went there was mainly just for the income you know for the savings and serviceability i was still living at home i used the five percent deposit scheme to get into my first investment as well.

Starting point is 00:11:51 I used my parents as a guarantor. So, you know, I know property is expensive today, but there's still avenues that you can use to at least get into your first home. Yeah, awesome. I know that from what you've shared with me in the run-up to today that you're in one of the most high-risk jobs in the country, which is in the blasting division. Yeah, blasting.

Starting point is 00:12:10 Yeah, talk to us a bit about that and how that has influenced your approach as a buyer's agent. Well, it's all about precision, right? So we had to load up 800 holes with 100 kilos each of ammonium nitrate and diesel, a blend, and then we had to cap it. And then we had to time, we basically had a timing engineer that every hole had to go off separately to the next hole. So obviously you couldn't, you know, the challenge there is you just can't

Starting point is 00:12:45 afford to make a mistake. so you know compliance is really really critical um following process is very very important and you're in extreme weather conditions because you're out in the open so down the working you know open open mine open cut mine yeah um yeah we had to it was like 50 you know 45 to 50 degrees it felt like it was more and we're drinking like i remember drinking seven to eight liters of water a day just in a standard 12-hour shift i have to say i was at my fittest because we used to play touch rugby at night i was definitely in my fittest uh i was a stallion back then um but yeah it was good it was a really

Starting point is 00:13:26 good experience um and i think it just made me you know that you know at the age of 18 doing something like that with that sort of responsibility just made it just made sure that i live life essentially like that so yeah i can imagine the discipline and the attention to detail that you apply to everything because you know in the mind again you make one mistake and you're gonna lose lives potentially so that that uh force discipline uh becoming a habit and then relating to what you're doing in the buyer's advocacy space i would have thought would be quite an advantage yeah yeah yeah it is yeah it certainly is and i think you need a lot of discipline in the b.o space yeah i totally agree something i always like to ask people uh because it really tends

Starting point is 00:14:14 to reveal a lot about someone what challenging event in your life so far has brought about your greatest learnings and your best changes do you think oh that's deep i think it's just having a family young um you know my wife and i started at the age of 25 um i have to say when i started that I was very lucky I had already two investment properties and, you know, we started at a very young age. So I think starting a family at such a young age when you don't really know who you are until you're 33, I felt like that was really probably gave me a lot of growth, you know.

Starting point is 00:14:57 Yeah, just because, you know, my life never worked either. So we, you know, we made sure that we had someone at home, you know basically raising the kids because we got four kids now um so when we started we thought we just might as well you know get the uh get the team up and running um so yeah that comes with a lot of challenges for the time and you know income as well coming back to melbourne i worked in uh in extractive industries which is like mining but it's rock and you know that came you know that the income wasn't as great but it required more hours you know i was a lot more tired as well so So I think that, you know, the experience of just being a young dad, you know, I think

Starting point is 00:15:37 is challenging, but I think there's a lot of fruits that came out of it too, because I didn't waste my time. If I gave someone my time, it's because, you know, it was required. I didn't just waste my time and do what I wanted to do, but yeah. Yeah, perfect. Again, on a similar line, before we sort of jump into your property journey, because you've mentioned already you had a couple of properties early uh what if anything do you struggle with these days sorry what if i yeah what do you struggle with um if like personally or in

Starting point is 00:16:10 you know you tell me yeah okay um i think i think the biggest challenge i see uh right now is like there is a lot of different agencies or investment agencies out there this is like in the business. I'll just explain to you the biggest challenge I see out there. There's a lot of misinformation. There's a lot of information out there today. When I started my journey, I don't even remember using realestate.com. It was in 2007, 2008. I just walked up into the local real estate agency on High Street, Thomastown, walked in. The agent said, I've got an off market, went to the house. It's nice, so I bought it. That was essentially my first experience buying a property whereas now there's so much information out there

Starting point is 00:16:57 i think there's a there is like with the challenging thing i think this is like an analysis paralysis happening at the moment and i think there's a lot of hype a lot of you know investor-led hype that's going on as well in markets around the country so i think the challenge i see is how do you cut through that noise and how do you just you know maintain you know the the values that you drive the business with i think that's probably the biggest challenge i see in our industry yeah totally agree and i'm gonna we're gonna park that thought because i'm gonna deep dive in that in a little bit more detail in next week's episode because i share your concerns around that i think uh we're seeing uh quality get in the road of quantity at every

Starting point is 00:17:41 level uh and uh i also think we're dangerously close to the point where uh we're almost becoming equities market where uh market makers and market movers can shift the needle in in property values and locations artificially uh but not sustainably so uh so i think we're on the same page there so let's let's put a pin through that conversation and make sure we unpack that uh next week but sort of coming back to your level before i get into your getting you to unpack your investment jenny so far uh what does money mean to you adula oh that's a great question look i think money essentially just gives you a sense of freedom uh when i say freedom i mean the ability to park what i'm doing full-time and start a business that i'm passionate about i think

Starting point is 00:18:34 taking a family every year on a holiday i think it's freedom i think it's wealth i think having kids that are healthy and being able to have a conversation with the wife and kids every night I think is wealth to me. So, yeah, property, I see it as a vehicle that takes you there. Yeah, that's probably my definition. Yeah, and I like that. Well, you touched on earlier the two properties that you had early. Let's break that journey down into the nitty-gritties if I can,

Starting point is 00:19:05 and I'd sort of want to sort of get a feel for what you did, why, how did it go, what worked and what didn't, and what did you learn from it? But before we start there, because it's the start that stops most people when it comes to property, I find, can you talk, and if you can think back to where you were at the time when you started to think about property, why did you decide to invest in property and what triggered your interest and what were the initial fears and concerns that you had before you actually pulled the trigger? yeah what coming to property was i think my network of friends uh i've got to see sort of their family and how they you know pretty deep into property development so i got to see and you know when you're around people you sort of learn off their behavior and how they talk and how they you know you get to read off you know um the actual interactions that happens i felt like

Starting point is 00:20:00 you know our family missed out on that because we just lacked education so i wanted to get into property but i didn't know how um so i think what helped me was just going to my local bank i think my dad had a friend he had a local bank back in the day your local bank was like your broker today so you know your local bank back in the day was like my dad's friend and we rock up and you know you know can i get my son a loan i was working um part-time or permanent part-time at the time and i became uh you know um my dad sort of supported me with that sort of five percent um you know with the guarantor loan um and yeah i think what got me through that like it look the driver behind my parents and my driver was separate my parents were like we need to get

Starting point is 00:20:42 this kid married at the age of 26 so like how can we buy him a house close to me i was thinking i don't want to get married but i knew i want to give an investment so how do i yeah so i sort of use their motivation for my benefit and the second one was when I was in WA I saved up enough deposit and bought a second investment but the second one is where I went wrong I bought a property that was

Starting point is 00:21:08 in a market that there had look it essentially costed me I had a friend advise me one of my friends he had 15 investments at the time and they were all commercial and he said to me rather than buying one in a suburb that was sort of close to the city,

Starting point is 00:21:24 buy two in an outer suburban area and the rent at the time was like over 5%. It was like, you know, you're going to be making, you can buy two properties for 450 that's going to return you 550 a week in rent

Starting point is 00:21:36 better than buying one property that's going to be renting for 300 for 450. And I thought, yeah, that makes sense. And I thought, you know, this guy's got 15 properties. I'm going to trust him. Anyway, we ended up buying and taking that advice

Starting point is 00:21:49 and I bought, you know, Western suburbs, in the western suburbs of Melbourne, an area called Melton. And it was probably this. How far back? This was in 2008. Were they house and land packages or? No, no.

Starting point is 00:22:03 It was an established house. Okay. It was an old house, old brick mini home on 560 square metres. Paid $220 for it. And, God, it was the worst investment. It took me three months to find a tenant. um we ended up i ended up having it for around four years i had three different tenancies in those four years each tenant destroyed the house the last one pretty much stopped paying and then

Starting point is 00:22:32 we went to the house to see what was going on and they left all their furniture on the nature strip and the house was the front doors still worst investment i thought i thought well i need to put this property back on the market so let's renovate it so i renovated the kitchen the bathroom um the carpets repainted it spent so many man hours in this house mind you i had two kids at the time it was tough stuff this is in 2012 when i came to sell it um sorry 20 i sold it in 2013 sorry in 13 i sold it 2013 2014 so i had it for a few years anyhow um uh after all the many hours that I put into it. It took me four months to sell it

Starting point is 00:23:15 and I sold it for $200,000. I think what I learned from that exercise is I bought an area that had a very high vacancy rate and I bought an area that had a lot of new housing come online.

Starting point is 00:23:29 So all the tenants were like, yes, there's no scarcity. Why would I rent out a builder's home when I can get a brand new home and there's plenty of stock available? So that's where I went wrong and it was just a supply and demand imbalance.

Starting point is 00:23:42 Well, what an experience to learn from. And I think that's probably helped shape where I am today and where I'm going. Well, let's dig into that a little bit, because most people who would have had that experience earlier would have washed their hands, walked away, and never done it again. They would put it down to a bad thing. And I sadly see a lot of people in that position. You probably heard the stats, Abdullah, but for first-time investors, 54% of them sell

Starting point is 00:24:11 the property within the first five years and and that's generally because they've done no homework they focused on the property not anything else it's ends up costing them too much they've bought in the wrong areas with this with those sort of issues and they end up selling the property from less they paid or get out of a break even uh never do property again what what allowed you or what was it in you that said okay well this is this is a bad experience i've learned from this but i'm still going to keep going talk to me about that so look 12 months after my and i were quite burnt from the experience um and i didn't want to get into property ever again and i sort of once the emotions sort of settled and you know got back into a better financial position i did a root

Starting point is 00:24:56 cause analysis and thought like where did i go wrong here and with the job i was in we used to do root cause analysis all the time so you take the emotion completely away and you keep asking himself five times why yeah so why didn't it rent out why was it on the mark for too long and he once he got to five you passed five wise then that root cause is there so when i found out the root cause was just the wrong information like i just took on someone's advice without doing my own research and had i bought in that suburb for 450 i'd be in a much better position today, like a million dollars better off today.

Starting point is 00:25:36 Opportunity cost was basically a million bucks, is that what it was? That's what it was. Wow. That is significant, but again, you've done the root cause analysis and gone, right, I bought the wrong asset in the wrong place with the wrong strategy, basically.

Starting point is 00:25:52 Someone can be sure of cash flow when most of us know that... I didn't need cash flow. I didn't need cash flow. I needed growth. I needed equity. I was fine. I was working in wa i didn't need cash flow at the time i was living at home like why was i focused on five hundred fifty dollars a week and this is what i see today like everyone's like cash flow conscious like don't worry about cash flow like think about how you can create cash flow right

Starting point is 00:26:17 can you add a granny flag can you build a second house can you renovate the front house like can you do can you buy you know buy a drill occupancy in a very good suburb like think of ways that you can generate cash flow but always stick to quality quality will always outrun quantity 100 you're talking my language there uh something i'm also interested in uh in unpacking a little bit uh is what no let's keep going because obviously you continue with property so once you've learned those lessons what happened next and how did it progress and how did your thinking and and your approach change uh from there on in yes from that point i just started to think okay how can i create an investor mindset right i need to start i need to change my mindset here

Starting point is 00:27:01 so it came down to four things who's on my team like i need a good accountant for me to do this properly i need a good accountant i need a good broker or banker um i need someone that's going to give me some advice on where to buy property or at least educate myself um the second part was what are my goals like what i where do i want to be in 15 years time for us to start this again uh and then what were my limitations so my limitations as a family was you know you know we made it pretty clear that a presenter and i made it pretty clear at the start of our marriage that you know she was going to basically stay home and that's a hard job in itself and it's such a rewarding job as well i wanted to stay home at least raise kids this is the best of

Starting point is 00:27:49 our ability and then once they get a bit older she can go do something that she really loves and really passionate about which she is today by the way um so my limitation was was income right so that was probably my bottleneck um and then and then you know the the once you have the first race ordered and the last one is strategy so if you know what your goals and limitations are you should then be able to work out what your strategy should be so that's the why and how right um and that's so that's essentially how i got there but it's a bit of yes yeah i love that And that's something that anyone listening to GetInvested probably gets sick of hearing me saying, but it's strategy first, property capacity second, and then those two drive what you do on the property front. And talk to me about what that meant to you in terms of, without getting down to the street addresses, the types of property you're buying in what sort of locations and where to see it.

Starting point is 00:28:45 yes i'd say like look um most of our clients we've been around for about five years and i'd say we're essentially mostly in residential still around sort of 80 mark however we're starting to acquire and go through their plans and we're now talking commercial we've got a commercial division as well um i think i think uh you know if we look at sort of what type of houses we're buying like we really try to focus on unoccupied areas i like to focus on you know having that sort of um you know you know how you hear a lot bushy you know location location location people talk about a lot so if i was to break it down into four feet four simple you know four simple steps on how to identify the right the right location number one look at the city what city are you

Starting point is 00:29:34 buying in what cycle of growth is it going through yeah right so is it would you agree with me if you said you know although brisbane is a very very good city and it's still a very tight market it's had a lot of growth in the last four years so it's probably yeah are we are we approaching the peak or is it at its peak yeah to be at or close to and i'd be saying the same thing about most of your areas of wa and adelaide too at the minute correct based on that i don't know and i probably wouldn't fall for the pied pipers uh message that keeps pumping up the tires in darwin because I think Darwin's a very short fuse and it's traditionally a cash flow location.

Starting point is 00:30:16 So I guess I'm a bit hesitant about a lot of, you know, the sort of high-profile podcasts and others that have been really pushing Darwin. I think there's question marks there for me. But I'm not giving advice here. That's just my own... You know the way I look at this. I'll go through the four steps,

Starting point is 00:30:32 but I've got a response to you on that one. But the first one, I said, what's the buying-in? So what cycle of growth has it gone through? What's driving the economy? Generally, areas that have good cities that are going through economic growth that's greater than usual, the GSP for that state or territory, something's driving that growth. So what is it? And you'll find economies that are going through growth, generally speaking, they tend to attract

Starting point is 00:31:00 more migration. And if there's a housing shortage, then obviously you supply and demand imbalance, and then you've got your capital growth. the second one after the city what region within that city you're buying in right so i'm just going to use business as an example would you buy an if switch where there's a lot of land available would you buy in redland bay where there's you know the area around capalaba where there's you know it's essentially a supply constraint area um and then so city region number three what suburb within that region so every region has your tenant areas your areas have a lot of housing

Starting point is 00:31:35 in commission and then some areas are predominantly owner-occupied um so you know you ideally own occupiers they drive value in a suburb and then the fourth one what city in that sorry what street in that suburb so you don't want to be on a main road you don't want to be on the high voltage power lines you don't want to be across from a school you want to be on an inside street you want to be on a you know on the street that's got a nice facade my street sweep that's essentially so those four things i think will you know if you can look at those four things i think that's a lot of value in those four but just going back to your discussion on darwin so there are some like um these smaller markets right we'll talk about quantity versus quality it's not every client

Starting point is 00:32:18 unfortunately bushy and you may disagree with me here but not every client has the ability to buy quality asset because they come to the table with like 80 to 100k right and they want to get into property they really want to get into property so then those to be but those particular clients we work with and those are the ones where you're like okay what do we do here like how do we build out this like how do we get them how do we use one of these short-term assets to get them into a quality asset so so long as so long as the client is aware that there has to be an exit strategy out of this market and and how you time it look you and i both know markets don't just change overnight right it's not like a switch where it's not like the equities market where

Starting point is 00:33:03 it just sort of just drops when someone sneezes or or elon and trump have a little argument things go crazy right so with property markets i think if you're going for the short-term play and you're going to for the short-term play because you don't have the capital that's okay you just need to when are you going to exit and there has to be an exit date you have to and you have to find the right structure so you don't get hit by cgt on the way out um but there has to be a play where you're getting out and we've done this actually with a couple of clients where i remember a client came to me you have a 120k in cash wanted to buy a home in sydney plane is to buy a home in sydney in five years we bought him something in townsville in 2022 for 420 it's worth about 630 now i think

Starting point is 00:33:46 townsville is almost reaching his peak and then he can essentially now take that money out he's got 350 or 400k out that you can take out and now buy his home in sydney for a million dollars right so that has to be part of the plan but to build a portfolio based on short-term markets around the country i think that's really reckless yeah but i like what you're saying it's horses to courses so it's it's and the other important point i think you've made there because everyone talks about location but they don't talk about price point they don't talk about type of asset and and you're right to put a blanket over a suburb is a big mistake it does get down to street and precinct level because one one street can be because the the intangible piece is a sentiment

Starting point is 00:34:33 that gets attached to those areas there's locals it's general right intergenerational almost with with them that can have a real hamstring or or a promoting effect on a location if it's the right one. But what I love about what you've just shared is, okay, the big blinking piece there is the strategy. So the strategy is right. We're not buying him down because it's going to be the long-term capital growth play. It's a means to an end. Let's get in with you at the capability you have now to secure an asset that we're still going to get some value out of, that then will enable you at a certain point of time to pull that and stick it into something else when you've got more capability. So I love the strategy piece is the bit that I get excited about. And understanding

Starting point is 00:35:20 what that strategy is before you even start looking at property is the key piece. And there's far too many people who the first thing they do is grab realestate.com and they start looking at locations and properties. Well, if you don't have everything else in behind it, like you've just described and that that translates into the entity you buy the property in and how you structure so you're looking at the you know ameliorating the the cash flow then you're really flying blind uh a bit like those initial properties you bought it what you've just shared with us is that because i i want to get into more of the the meat and potatoes of that in in next week's discussion because we're going to deep dive around the buyer's agency piece but in with your own portfolio

Starting point is 00:36:02 Leo, does some of that thinking you've just shared with us reflect what you've done personally? Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot we've done as a family, yeah. And I think, look, it's not about quantity. It's just about the quality of investments. And then, like, you speak about sentiment, right? And this is why commercial is such a great asset.

Starting point is 00:36:19 If you can get more income out of the commercial property that you've purchased, guess what? The value goes up and there's no sentiment attached to it. And this is why commercial is such a wild card. You've got to know what you're buying. Obviously, you don't buy offices. It's not the best time to buy offices. Even if you think it's the bottom of the market,

Starting point is 00:36:38 I think offices are a huge way to go in Melbourne and Sydney. But I think industrial is probably the lowest risk asset type. I think an up-and-coming asset type is probably self-storage. We're in the process of acquiring a self-storage for a client. But it all comes down to the income. If you can increase the income, the value, whatever the cap rate is. And, you know, I don't know if you get this in your space, Wushu, but five years ago, I had to explain what commercial was

Starting point is 00:37:11 by definition to people. Yeah. Right? Now, we get more inquiries about people asking, should we buy commercial? So, there's obviously a lot more information out there about commercial. And I think investors who've got four or five residential properties and they've realized they've got five tenants and 10 bathrooms

Starting point is 00:37:28 and all these kitchens and all these maintenance costs. They're thinking, hey, we've made some good money here. Let's pivot to commercial now. Yeah, love it. Again, we're going to dive into a bit more of that in next week's episode. But just to bring you back to yourself again, if we can, I always, as we've touched on already, like to think about what the future looks like.

Starting point is 00:37:50 So can you sort of paint us a bit of a picture of your life vision and your ideal lifestyle if money wasn't an issue and then then we'll look at okay what strategy are you approaching to achieve and maintain that long term yeah that's good um so i think in terms of like what my goals and vision and lifestyle is i think you know we're trying to establish maybe like a passive income scheme uh near stream um and that probably looks like getting into you know the next phase of our journey is going to be commercial um and i'm very interested in more so the value add commercial options that are available um because i think if you can unlock more income in commercial you get the you get the capital growth i think commercial

Starting point is 00:38:36 i consider some type some parts of commercials be foundational so that's essentially what we're doing and you know being uh sort of a single income family household with four children not many banks like me so you know at least stock lands a very good um way to continue on with commercial um and obviously the performance of the asset not how much you earn every week which is a bloody different uh opportunity i i again we'll we'll talk about it more next week but the i think like most pendulums that the pendulum in some quarters are swung too far on commercial and and every person you talk to wants to get into it. But there are price points and there are some –

Starting point is 00:39:18 it's like learning a new language, commercial. If you go in with a residential lens looking at commercial property, you're getting yourself into a lot of hot water that you just don't understand. So, again, it comes back to that strategy, the horse, of course, and then the right type of asset that's going to reflect that. So we'll jump into that next week. I guess sort of bringing the exercise to a bit of a conclusion

Starting point is 00:39:48 in today, Adela, from your personal experience, what do you believe are the keys to sustainably successful investment and why? The key to sustainable investment? I think it's very, very important to make sure you do it right from the start. to have that mindset i think structuring your investment like knowing what structures you're buying your investments in is critical because one day you're going to have to sell it or

Starting point is 00:40:17 you know it's going to be passed down to children um i think it's just the why is so important the why structure the how um the execution piece is just as critical um i think people need to be more open to you know working with professionals but you need to vet the professional that you're working with you need to ask them a lot of questions around strategy um you need to you know you need to uh you need to really someone if you're going to be working with someone it's not about the transaction it's more about the strategy transactions part is easy like you know literally 85 percent of my clients buy the you know agree to purchase the first property we present them it's not because we've manipulated them it's because you know it's because we

Starting point is 00:41:04 we've we've agreed to a strategy and they they're now accepting of okay that's the right one because we've already spoken about the strategy piece so yeah a lot as opposed to the uh that sadly i've had some interesting experiences with some buyers agent who who tend to rely on fomo uh to really push and they talk a great story i mean they they it's the old old exercise they use a lot of the truth but apply it to the wrong solution unless you're educated you don't you can't tell the difference and they end up buying a pretty average asset in the wrong entity in the wrong location and it might look good while all of the the uh feeding frenzy of buyers agents are all hunting in the same location and and therefore their clients are actually competing with each other

Starting point is 00:41:52 to pay more for properties but then when those buyers agents suddenly shift the the crosshairs to another location and that the true fundamentals of that location kick in, that's where I'm concerned for a lot of investment. Do you have a location in mind that you'd like to... Well, no, I won't share that because I don't want to become part of the problem. I guess I get pretty frustrated with the number of people,

Starting point is 00:42:19 and that's vice agents and podcasters who talk at Norsema about locations and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy if you're not careful. but it's the longevity and that sustainability piece that I think is key. And I'm talking more about a long-term capital growth strategy. Mind you, I think with what I'm seeing in the industry at the moment, there's a new strategy that's emerging

Starting point is 00:42:44 that some people will be taking advantage of, and it's almost a short-term trading exercise, getting in early, riding the wave, getting out, using the equity and taking it somewhere else. Because they are feeding off the intense activity that's happening in a location as a response to the high number of buyer's agents who are suddenly talking up an area and everyone's piling in. But again, that's probably a subject for a deeper dive another day. To sort of close it up before I jump into the first round of the ambush series, Abdullah, if you were starting out again, what, if anything, would you invest your time and your money in differently? Yeah, I probably wouldn't be so critical on how much

Starting point is 00:43:31 an accountant would charge for advice. It's about value, not cost, isn't it? Yeah, 100%. I probably wouldn't. I'd probably be just thinking more long-term rather than now. Yeah. You know, I think it's probably important to think of, you know, like if you ask me, would you prefer 25% year-on-year growth

Starting point is 00:43:53 in the next two years or 8% over 10? I'd say 8% over 10, you know, because the 25% year-on-year probably is going to go down 10% or 15% once the market recorrects itself. And we're going to see more of those recorrections. We are. That intensity of activity that's concentrated by players in the industry, we are going to see much more of that, I think.

Starting point is 00:44:19 Much more of a rollercoaster ride in certain locations because the underlying fundamentals aren't there, and we'll talk about what those underlying fundamentals are next week, then people are setting themselves up for a sad surprise. And I guess the frustrating thing for me, you know, I love the buyer's agent's industry. There's some very good people in it who add a lot of value, but there's also, like any game where there's no barrier to entry,

Starting point is 00:44:49 it attracts the gold diggers who are in for a quick buck. And sadly, I think a lot of the players that have recently come in are giving the industry a very bad name in contributing to that issue. But let's jump into the ambush round where I'm going to give you the sort of blindfold and cigarette and ask you some quick questions that the audience are going to want to get your words of wisdom on. First of all, if you could have a coffee with anyone and they can be dead or alive, who would you choose and why? Oh, wow. I would say I'd say Rob Kawakase

Starting point is 00:45:41 the guy that wrote Rich Dad Poor Dad because that was the first book that I read in high school believe it or not me too, it's the reason I'm sitting here If I actually saw him live in Adelaide, this is back in the 90s, and I was dragged along to a conference and he was there and that was like a penny drop.

Starting point is 00:46:05 And I bought every book. I bought the cash flow game. I bought everything for that. It completely changed my life. Literally, he wouldn't be doing what I'm doing, enjoying it, if it wasn't for that. Talk to us a bit about your Kiyosaki moment. uh yeah when i was the when i was in high school i went to um so i went to a couple of islamic

Starting point is 00:46:26 schools and then i went to i have no grammar and uh i read the book when i was in i have no grammar and they all started to make sense and i was like yep i think this is where i need to pivot when i finish school um you know it's and uh you know it's that whole um yeah especially the cash flow quadrant how you know purchasing investments actually provide income over a period of time and they create the wealth i think i thought that's what that's what got me into property and then you know coinciding with what happened to my dad at the time yeah um just just all just sort of made sense i've got to i felt like i was i hope my dad never said this but i felt like i was the son of the poor dad because not because of just because of the mindset yeah

Starting point is 00:47:11 yeah it's rich in many ways but just financially and then that's about knowledge and opportunity really um switching gears a bit what's the worst and the best investment advice that you've ever received yeah worst investment advice is uh buy a brand new house in your super in with through a channel agent that has sold the whole estate to other super people that's probably the best advice I've been given and the best the best advice was get into

Starting point is 00:47:48 commercial yeah commercial has been very good for a lot of my clients and for our family as well again different take all together what superpower do you wish you had and why

Starting point is 00:48:03 good one I wish I had the ability to read people's minds the great new in the negotiating piece that would be very handy in our negotiations it could be really dicey we need to have it worked with someone you don't know what their motivations are

Starting point is 00:48:34 you don't know how they're going to behave throughout the transaction the client is okay because the client we build trust with but that's probably the dicey part especially when there's a really good investment and how do you get your client to meet the demand of the client but also meet the demand of the vendor how do you see through this like a mirror that's the dance, that's the fun part of property and that's where really good players stand out from the pack

Starting point is 00:49:04 So I'd love that. Last one, I'm a big believer that sustainable success is based on our habits that link our self in terms of what we think with our health, which are the things that we do day to day, to our wealth, which compounds as a result of those. So what's a personal happy habit or rewarding ritual that you employ that you think has contributed most to your success so far? um yeah so look i i like to think i i practice my religion um and i do pray so a lot of people meditate these days but same thing yep um so i'm up every day at 5 30 yeah that's something that's non-negotiable and i'm out of the house um i'm normally in the office by seven not that you have to be in the office at seven but it's more so being up early you have a lot more to the day you can experience a lot more um and i think there's a lot of like i don't know i just

Starting point is 00:50:03 find the mornings to be very fruitful um than waking up at nine and in the hustle and bustle oh just training time for moments of reflection yeah you can't put a price are you that brings every aspect of your life actually yeah so uh full respect on that one I don't know, but what's the one question you wish I'd asked you, Bella? Well, I think you asked me a really good question today, but I suppose maybe I probably wish you asked me questions around how faith can impact, you know, how people behave because it's probably the biggest challenge in my community.

Starting point is 00:50:59 I think that's where we lack a lot of financial literacy and that's because of, you know, the Islamic rulings around interest. But there is, you know, there are Islamic finance banks that are available now. But it's just how do we get the community to actually look at them as an approved concept yeah i i think yeah i think the the and and sort of broadening that exercise a little bit uh i think some of our the limitations that we that are imposed on our thinking by uh values and culture uh and this is across the board uh can really put the

Starting point is 00:51:41 blank is on uh yeah things are interpreted and i agree with you i i i'm tend i tend to spend more time looking at the values of a person than than anything else actually because you can understand someone's values uh then you know what you're going to get yeah i like the actually yeah i think and we see how clients behave during transactions some of them you'll just think cool, values are really clashing at the moment. That's really good. But some of them are just, yeah, it's like, you know, but you wouldn't come out unless you're in a transaction.

Starting point is 00:52:21 Yeah, and that's the hard part. It's very difficult. So until you put someone in the heat of battle, it's difficult to say that. And I love that. Well, that's pretty much a wrap on what I'm going to call your misstep to make a personal journey. Yeah, thanks Abdullah.

Starting point is 00:52:38 and it's really been a great masterclass in, I think, turning scars into a success compass. So here's a couple of truths that I think everyone tuning in needs to take on board from what you've shared today. Firstly, focus on principles before property. So choose the sort of top-down scarcity approach that goes from region to city to suburb to street with a clear head and not a foggy heart. Secondly, it's about quality over quality. So ditch what I sort of jokingly refer to as the biggest dickest door count vanity metrics

Starting point is 00:53:14 and instead buy assets that you'll still love in a downturn. And lastly, it's about data with dignity. So let numbers lead, they you steer, and your ego can actually be locked up in the boot. So for everyone listening, if you've enjoyed our great conversation so far, then you just can't afford to miss our deep dive next week in part two where we'll be revealing abdullah's property success toolkit and uncurring some of the serious property gold that's going to move the needle for you so to whet your appetite here's a bit of a teaser on what we're going to unpack you're going to discover the boom suburb tells that abdullah watches to read the rip before the

Starting point is 00:53:56 headlines do and the kind of signals that turn a sleepy map pin into a six-figure leap we're going to unpack the five non-negotiable traits of a true high growth asset so that you can avoid buying pretty problems. And you'll learn when to bolt on commercial cashflow ballast and the traps that turn a juicy yield into a junk bond. Plus, you'll know what to do when the dolls disagree, where one says go while another says woe, because this is where amateurs guess and pros decide. so if you're serious about investing by design not default next week's episode is going to be your edge so set a reminder bring your notebook and your favorite highlighter because ad dollar is going to hand you checklists that you can actually use straight off the discussion and

Starting point is 00:54:42 if today's conversation has lit a fire in you and you want tailored help click on the links in the show notes now so you book a lifestyle like living by design solution session with me personally where we'll link your ideal lifestyle goals to your finance capability that together will drive your resulting property strategy and tactics so you can map your buy box your funding structure and your next property move or level up fast with my freedom formula program which gives you the why and the what of property done right or jump on the wait list to secure a big discount on my soon to be released and advanced property wealth program which will actually help you to deep dive step by step on how to do property properly. As we close, we thank you for lending us your ears and your

Starting point is 00:55:28 ambition. So rest up, remember to invest in your knowledge and your network before you invest in property. And we'll see you next week when we pan for the real nuggets in Abdullah's data-driven deal craft. So thanks again for getting invested and we'll see you again then, Abdullah. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to Get Invested on the Property Hub podcast channel, your home for property investment insights and inspiration make sure you subscribe to property hub for free get your weekly dose of get investing inspiration along with every episode of realty talk australia's top online property show for red hot property investing news and insights

Starting point is 00:56:04 direct from industry leaders and influencers and finally i'll see you next time

Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Part 1 - Abdullah Nouh on humility, hard numbers and higher purpose

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