Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Part 2: Auctioneer Damien Cooley on the art of auctions

Starting point is 00:00:00 The biggest mistake a buyer makes, I think, in an actual auction environment, they don't watch their competition. You can learn a lot from body language. What I mean by that is that if you go to an auction, you've got a budget to spend, you've got an amount of money that you're prepared to buy the property for, watch the people that you're bidding against because there are telltale signs of giveaways of when they're reaching or they're at their limit or they're about to be at their limit. you know and if you've got budget left and the other buyers at their limit that's the time for you to actually ante up that's the time for you to bid faster and it might surprise you to hear me say but you actually don't need to be big bidding big increments at that point a small increment is actually sometimes better because it's not the increment it's the speed at which you place the bid that actually hurts the other buyer mentally i always say to people if you're

Starting point is 00:00:55 a buyer going to auction now I say wear sunglasses and wear a mask because as an auctioneer I absolutely hate that because I can't see their face I can't see their eyes and it's a lot harder to read them. Welcome to Get Invested the leading weekly podcast to help you unlock your full potential and enjoy your version of sustainable success that lies at the intersection of your three elves, yourself, your health and your wealth. I'm your host and guide Bushy Martin and each week we go deep sharing great conversations with proven experts in all walks of life including the best investors, property experts, analysts, leaders, founders, sports stars and health gurus to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills and their money

Starting point is 00:01:44 and the benefits that this creates. To help you find out what it takes to break free from the grind and discover your flavor of freedom to create your freedom formula. You see, the truth is that everyone invests. Every second of every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy, and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, and sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen, not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less and live your legacy by investing now.

Starting point is 00:02:32 You'll enjoy the stories and secrets of high performers who invest for success in every aspect of their lives and discover the top tips on how to get started, how to make the most of your investment journey and ultimately to be living your dream, not someone else's. As you engage in each episode, you'll glean the information, inspiration and implementation that you need to get empowered and get invested in imagining and actioning the life that you've always dreamed about. And Get Invested is proudly part of Property Hub, your home for property investment insights and inspiration. Make sure you subscribe now on your favourite podcast player to get every episode of Get Invested and Realty Talk, which is Australia's leading and longest running online

Starting point is 00:03:18 property show that's full of red hot property investing news and insights direct from all of the industry leaders and influencers. You can also connect with me personally and join the Get invested community of fellow Freedom Fighters at ushimartin.com.au or on knowhowproperty.com.au. Now, let's get invested. Hi, Freedom Fighters. When was the last time you attended an auction? Were you a potential buyer, a seller, a family friend, or maybe just a curious bystander or neighbour? And how did you feel when someone mentions the word auction? Are you daunted? Do you have feelings of anxiety, uncertainty, fear or foreboding immediately make your heart race? Or on the

Starting point is 00:04:04 flip side, do you get excited and are eager with anticipation? Because auctions are often perceived as high-pressure environments aimed at disarming you as a buyer and stirring up the emotions of greed and fear in a very highly competitive, fast-moving and very public crowd environment where you're under the spotlight and it's easy to end up bidding well above your limit or worse still getting paralysed with fear and not bidding at all. But one thing's for sure, your emotions are likely to be heightened in an atmosphere where nervous energy is on overdrive. Now I've often heard auction bidding described as being like a bunch of potential buyers sprinting headlong towards a cliff and the only way to win is for you to outlast the competition by skidding to a

Starting point is 00:04:49 sudden stop just before you fall over the edge. With figures flying through the air like machine gun bullets and an auctioneer talking at the speed of light and paddles fingers and eyebrows going up left right and center the high pressure street theater of auctions can be frightening and overwhelming regardless of how prepared you feel prior to the day but they don't have to be you may not know that my good father the original bushy became an auctioneer late in his life selling large rural properties and farms along with sheep and cattle clearing sales and charity auctions. And for many of those years in my late teens and 20s, I did the booking for him. So I got to see the good, bad and ugly of auctions. I got the privilege of observing the full spectrum of

Starting point is 00:05:32 auctions from multi-million dollar homesteads down to buckets of old wire, rusty nails and old toilet seats at farm clearing sales. So here's what I know. The reality is that at some point in your life, you're likely to sell a property at auction or try and buy a property or something else at auction. So today, we're going to demystify the exciting world of auctions so that you can embrace them as an opportunity instead of a threat. If you're well-prepared financially, mentally, emotionally, and strategically, auctions can actually be exciting events and great opportunities, no matter whether you're a buyer or a seller. But who do you turn to in order to really understand the psychology, the strategies,

Starting point is 00:06:13 and the tips to succeed at auction, whether you're a buyer or a hopeful seller? You need to seek the advice and guidance from the best of the best, someone who eats, sleeps and breathes auctions and consistently achieves outstanding results, and today we're going to do just that. Our very special guest is the auctioneer of choice for many of Australia's premier sellers and most respected real estate agencies, an auctioneer whose business conducted 6,000 auctions last financial year alone, and who's personally conducted over 2,000 auctions a year for nearly 20 years now. We're talking about an auctioneer who's received countless

Starting point is 00:06:53 accolades, which are testament to his focused and unwavering commitment to his crafts, that's resulted in him achieving consistently exceptional results. His experience and reputation is extended to reality television, where he's performed the winning auction on the block numerous times and is the most booked auctioneer on the show. He's also performed auctions on other reality TV series, including The Renovators, Under the Hammer, Hot Auctions, Selling Houses Australia, and Lux Listing Sydney. As a result, he's been recognised as contributing significantly to the revitalisation of Sydney's auction market, and in a recent year pre-COVID, he sold $2.3 billion worth of real estate. If you haven't guessed already, I'm talking about one of

Starting point is 00:07:40 Australia's leading and most highly awarded auctioneer, Damien Cooley. And we pick up our great conversation following on from part one last week, where I asked him about his best and worst investments before unpacking the exciting, intriguing and challenging science and art form of all things auction. Now, I once heard auctions described as bizarre combinations of slave market, trading floor, theatre and burlesque. So we demystify all of this today as we continue to enjoy Damien Cooley. What do you believe has been both your best and your worst investments in your life so far and what have you learned from each of them?

Starting point is 00:08:21 Ah, you know, I think the best investment for me personally was the events that I I've been in yeah look it's hard to say best right because I've had a lot of great investments and I'm not necessarily talking about you know money I'm just talking about the best investment in myself that I have made is is my health and fitness without any shadow of a doubt yeah um and and I think having having a business coach a personal coach um you know that that that investment in myself to to lose weight feel great feel healthy that kept me on track for a lot of a long time um you know my my business coach that i have right now a guy called nigel watts who's who's phenomenal and i love nige he um he we speak you know regularly he keeps me on track right now

Starting point is 00:09:15 but he's also someone that i can talk to about personal stuff and not just about business stuff but he really challenges me and gets me thinking that's been a great investment for me so i think that that's been a good investment what's the worst investment i've ever made um look i actually feel really excited to say that i've never really made a bad investment um i'm talking financially now i've never actually made a bad investment um i recently sold out of a uh a superannuation fund that i was a seed investor in um i didn't do well out of that i would have done okay um if i was allowed to sell my shares when i when i wanted to sell my shares which was um a few months ago um but they made a big clerical error

Starting point is 00:10:02 in uh in an announcement to the asx to say that i was selling my shares and as a result of that clerical error it cost me a couple of weeks and the market tanked and yeah look i didn't lose a lot of money but but um i lost money but that was probably the worst i've always made good decisions um i feel like i feel like um you know everyone needs a good accountant everyone needs a good lawyer everyone needs a good stockbroker and everyone needs a good real estate advisor and i think if you tick those boxes um from a from a finance wealth creation point of view if you tick those boxes um you know you're you're already a long way ahead um but i've i've built a significant superannuation um investment portfolio off the back of good advice from my

Starting point is 00:10:49 from my stock broker at belt potter um i've built a great real estate portfolio off the back of obviously me being in the industry and buying properties or opportunities when when they've done well we've we've also ridden just quite an incredible real estate boom in the last few years um which no one picked or thought of well i certainly didn't um you know like that that that has been extraordinary so that has created wealth um i've got a great accountant who i trust with my life in mike dean from pwc you know i rely heavily on his advice on how to structure things and how to how to do things right um and i've got a great property lawyer at an illegal um who i i trust implicitly um who make sure that you know every uh every i is dotted and

Starting point is 00:11:41 every t is crossed and you know i think if you have surround yourself with good people um a good finance broker i think if you surround yourself with good people um you're a long way you're a long way ahead already totally agree mate uh always said that uh any form of investment whether it being yourself uh your health or your wealth is is all about uh treating as an elite team sport and you're not a player you just surround yourself with the best of the best and then then manage the team uh yeah it's definitely the way to go mate that that has been uh an awesome run through the the journey so far damon and i'm sort of itching like you are probably to get into the the discussion around auctions uh because as i sort of said in the intro it's something that

Starting point is 00:12:27 at some point in time, every single one of us is going to be involved in whether we realize it or not. And there's such a mystique surrounding auctions and misconceptions, I think, a lot of the time that I'm really keen to just sort of shed some proper light on the whole auction exercise today with you. So what I'd love to do just to kick off on that, mate, is to talk about when and why would sellers consider auctioning a property? And on the flip side, when isn't an auction an appropriate method of sale? Yep. It's a really good question.

Starting point is 00:13:05 And the answer is that everything should be auctioned. Although that probably sounds a little bit biased coming from an auctioneer, but I think one of the biggest misconceptions that people have about auction is that they question whether something is an auction property or if this is an auctionable or if it's not. And the reality is auction is just a method of sale that we use to build urgency around an event, bring a deal together and create competition.

Starting point is 00:13:36 And if something has competition on the day, then that's a positive by-product of the auction process. If it doesn't have competition on the day, well, then the auction date has created the urgency for a decision to be made by that date for all parties involved. and it is just it's a process that we use to to sell things faster and and and get the best result for them i also bushy really believe from a purchaser's point and let's just talk property

Starting point is 00:14:03 for a second not of things but from a purchaser's point of view it's the most transparent way to buy real estate you know you can see who you're competing against it is a visual you know who you are competing against you also know that the vendor needs to make a decision by auction date see a lot of vendors think their homes are worth more than what they really are and i tell you this a lot of properties that are sold off market it's vendors that want too much for their homes um and and the buyer is is trying to buy a property the vendor wants an extravagant number and um and they buy off market right that's because the vendor's overpriced so that particularly right now right now that's very evident anyone who's selling off market at the

Starting point is 00:14:51 moment they're too scared to go to market because they they think they're not going to get their price um and that's because their price is probably 20 percent more than what the property is actually worth so auction auction delivers i believe the fairest way for someone to buy and the fairest way for someone to sell now from a vendor's point of view they're in control because they're in control of their reserve price if they don't get the price they don't have to sell yeah the buyer is in control because if they don't want to pay the money they don't have to right so it is all so don't complicate it is my point my point is if you're a buyer go to the auction maybe you buy it maybe you don't if you're a seller go to the auction maybe you sell it maybe you don't right

Starting point is 00:15:35 It's up to the real estate agent to try and bring that deal together. And if there are several purchasers wanting to purchase a property, that means it's a good quality asset and good quality property sell well in any market. You know, I had an auction just on Saturday. We had, I think, nine or 10 registered bidders. It had nine or 10 registered bidders. We had a reserve price of $2.3 million.

Starting point is 00:15:59 It was in the paper on Sunday. Sold for $2,565,000. Yeah. Hot result. My very next auction, I went to Paddington. I had two registered bidders. No one bid, bend or bid, passed in, right? Completely different scenarios.

Starting point is 00:16:14 Yeah. Some things sell, some things don't, and it's all price-related. And I think from an auction point of view, don't be afraid of it. Actually embrace it. Yeah, exactly. And the point you made there is a quality asset is going to sell well regardless of what's happening and what the perception is. it's an average property where everyone is going to have

Starting point is 00:16:39 to work a fair bit harder to try and get a result. But, mate, just in the context of auctions then, what are the biggest mistakes that you see both buyers and sellers making in relation to them? Yep. Oh, look, I think from a buyer's point of view, mistakes, some mistakes that a buyer makes. The biggest mistake a buyer makes, I think,

Starting point is 00:17:00 in an actual auction environment, they don't watch their competition. you can learn a lot from body language well what i mean by that is that if if you go to an auction you've got a budget to spend you got an amount of money that you're prepared to buy the property for you know watch the people that you're bidding against because they have there are telltale signs of giveaways of when they're when they're reaching or they're they're at their limit or they're about to be at their limit you know and if you've got budget left and the other buyers at their limit, that's the time for you to actually ante up. That's the time for you to bid faster.

Starting point is 00:17:35 And it might surprise you to hear me say, but you actually don't need to bid in big increments at that point. A small increment is actually sometimes better because it's not the increment, it's the speed at which you place the bid that actually hurts the other buyer mentally. Yeah, the confidence place. Let's drill into that because I think you've touched

Starting point is 00:17:55 on something that's absolutely fundamental to this, whether you're a buyer, whether you're the auctioneer or the vendor looking on, those telltale signs, what are some of the telltale signs that you pick up on that starts to communicate to you that there is just about reaching that limit? There's a few, and it depends on, you know, whether it's a couple or whether it's an individual.

Starting point is 00:18:20 I always say to people, if you're a buyer going to auction now, I say wear sunglasses and wear a mask because as an auctioneer, i absolutely hate that because i can't see their face i can't see their eyes and it's a lot harder to read them um so if you want a tip that's my that's probably my number one tip that's a good one yeah um what are the telltale signs like often if there's two people standing with each other partners you know one will look at the other when they're reaching their limit or they're at their limit you know they look at them as if to say far out like i can just tell i can read their mind straight away they're saying far out you know we're at our limit what should we do um and so

Starting point is 00:19:01 that that's a telltale sign um another one is uh like a buyer's agent for example a buyer's agent bidding on behalf of another buyer bidding on behalf of somebody else um you know i love it when the other when the buyers are with the buyer's agent because i know what the buyer's agent's going to do before because i'm actually watching the buyer because the buyers give away telltale signs they just they can't hide their emotion um another another one is when a buyer's agent doesn't have their representatives with them you know and they're bidding that i know they've got more in them if they haven't made a phone call to their buyer or if they haven't told me that they're out um you know because they've got a bug preset limit what they can bid to and i know that

Starting point is 00:19:43 they've got more to spend for example yeah another sign that an individual buyer might bait when when they're about to bid is they might have their uh registration card in their purse or in their pocket or they might they might move to try and find that um sometimes i might even say at the beginning of an auction you know you need to show me your cards every time you bid and i might um not know that someone was registered but i might see them go to to grab the card they want to they put it in their pocket but they want to know it's handy so so it's ready to pull out when they want to i look for those little signs um i watch their reactions on their face so sometimes when i ask for an opening bid i'll just say a number because i'm actually looking

Starting point is 00:20:26 and that number can be low it can be high it can be middle sometimes i often say a higher number because i and when i've only got one bidder i'll say a high number i know the buyer's not going to bid but i'm actually looking for their reaction to the number that i say yes it is very difficult to not have an immediate reaction to what to something that an auctioneer says right so hypothetically the agent's been guiding you know 1.2 million dollars um i go to the auction i say you know we should be we should be looking for an opening bit of say 1.3 and i know that that's high but i know that it's more but i'm actually watching the buyer's face when i say that because their immediate reaction, the way they move their eyebrows,

Starting point is 00:21:14 the way they move their mouth, the way they look, is it a surprised look or is it a very nonchalant look? Is it a not surprised at all look? Because in their mind, they might be coming with a budget of 1.4, so 1.3 sounds fine, yeah? So I'm actually watching their facial expressions when I say that number, and that's the giveaway to me. So, for example, that may influence my vendor's bid.

Starting point is 00:21:44 Like I'm allowed to have a vendor's bid. I might have been planning to do a vendor's bid of 1.25, but after saying what I've said and seeing that they haven't reacted surprised to the number that I've just said, I might actually increase my vendor bid to 1.3 to test the buyer to see if they're going to come in above that. So there is strategy that I put in place to test the emotions and the facial expressions and the giveaways for a buyer. I also like to go and shake a buyer's hand sometimes before we start

Starting point is 00:22:16 the auction, you know, because I like to feel if they've got sweaty palms. Are they nervous? You know, so I'll do that specifically, not just to be nice, but to actually try and get some information emotionally out of the buyer. Love it. Yeah. So same with a vendor.

Starting point is 00:22:32 like i'll speak to a vendor before the auction i'll ask them what they're prepared to take what they're prepared to sell for you know the vendor always um needs to know that you know i'm there to to get the best result for them and i make no apology for that i am i'm there i'm there i work for the vendor i'm there to get the best i can i don't mind if the vendor will sell for a price that's not the price i i'm trying to achieve no i'm there to get the best price i can you know and i'll negotiate with anybody and if if you're going to stand against me and uh and negotiate on the other side you want to be good because i i i ask questions that i already know the answer to you know and i don't say that in an arrogant way i say that from 20 years of experience and doing

Starting point is 00:23:15 what i do is i ask certain questions and i look for reactions so i might say to a buyer you know you're at 1.2 the vendor's got a reserve at 1.3 um what would you be prepared to pay and a buyer might say well you know we'll pay 1.2 and i'll say the vendor they're not going to sell for that you know what would you be prepared to pay now the best time to get an increased bid from a buyer is when they give you an increased bid so the buyer might hypothetically say well look i'll pay 1 million 210 the first thing that will come out of my mouth is they're not going to sell for that yeah you know they've got a reserve at 1.3 now the vendor might sell for that but i'm saying they won't sell for that because I'm looking for the buyer's reaction

Starting point is 00:23:55 to what I say. Love it. And it's the same thing for the vendor. I'm looking at the vendor's reaction to what I say, not necessarily what they say. I'm looking at their reaction for what I say. So this is all about body language, reading people, and, you know, after conducting tens of thousands of auctions, far out,

Starting point is 00:24:13 I'd want to be good at it, right? Well, the number doesn't necessarily mean the skill, but it certainly doesn't in your case because you're focused on exactly doing that. But on the flip side of that then, and taking this more from a buyer's perspective or potential buyer's perspective, what are the keys to being successful with auctions from a bidder? Yep.

Starting point is 00:24:37 Look, every auction's different. If I can see that there are a lot of people registered that I'm bidding against, I'm going to be aggressive. i'm going to come out swinging i'm going to bid confidently um and i'm going to have a crack at it right to the end that that property that i said sold for 2 million 565 on the weekend yeah the opening bid was 2.3 million and that was the reserve okay now that was the pre-auction offer that the buyer's agent had put in for that property now that was a very big offer it was a strong offer it did sell for 2565 but there was no value in starting that auction at 1.9 for the

Starting point is 00:25:17 buyer as the auctioneer i wanted it to start at 1.9 because i wanted to i wanted it to build momentum yeah but the buyers agent crushed the hearts of you know probably seven of the 10 buyers because he started it so high you know there's probably five or six people that were out straight away because of that opening bid now on the flip side of that if i know that there's only one other bidder or if i'm the only bidder i'm going to play hard i'm not going to open strongly i might even open with a low bid and i might let the auctioneer say no you know i might play i'm gonna i'm gonna play it a lot tougher because i'm there to negotiate the best deal for me as a buyer um so there are different ways to play it i think one little tip is to try and get to an auction

Starting point is 00:26:02 early um and make sure and watch watch who's registering like in new south wales and most states you've got to register to bid watch who's registering ask the agent how many bidders are registered they don't have to tell you but you catch them off guard sometimes by asking that question yeah um you know i always blow up at agents when i hear them answer the question i'm like what are you doing don't tell the buyer how many bidders registered because it could be right so but yeah there there are there are strategies that you can put in place to to to bid and to successfully buy i mean i think the really the important rule here is that if you are not comfortable or feel comfortable bidding for yourself you need you really need to employ a

Starting point is 00:26:47 professional to do it for you because it is i know myself as an auctioneer it's harder for me to negotiate against a professional negotiator than it is to negotiate with someone who is emotionally invested in wanting to buy that property yeah that's a very good call and in this day and age with you know the professional negotiators and buyers agents who are doing it much more regularly and reducing that sort of almost Dave and Goliath style process down to something that's more a level playing field. You really, it's a great insurance policy.

Starting point is 00:27:23 Absolutely. Let's sort of swing now into the role of an auctioneer because I think the role of an auctioneer is often misunderstood and I'd love for you to talk a bit about that and also distinguish what separates a great auctioneer from a good one. Yep. um i agree with you i think it is misunderstood i think a lot of people

Starting point is 00:27:43 think that an auctioneer literally just stands out in front of the the property um in front of the buyers calls the numbers and you know knocks it down or passes it in i am strategically thinking about every single bid i receive and every bid that i'm going for my brain is two three bids ahead of whatever the bid i have at the moment if you watch any of my auctions you see the way the way i structure the bids i chase the bids i guide the buyers to what i'm going to accept i don't i'm not an audit taker i don't stand there and allow the buyers to tell me what they're going to bid um yes sometimes i need to be mindful of of accepting a bid that a buyer wants to give me but often i'll stand toe-to-toe with a buyer and

Starting point is 00:28:26 just say no i'm not taking five grand you know it's 25 it's 50 that's okay if you don't want to don't bid don't bid doesn't bother me but i'm not taking your five grand like i i will i will stand and um in front of in front of an audience in front of the crowd and push for an increment um because i know that a buyer is more likely to say yes after two or three times of me asking then no and if they continue to say no will i make the decision on whether i take that bid or i don't again push you i don't say this arrogantly so i hope the listeners don't don't take it as that i'm saying this is me as a professional my strategy that i put in place to get the best result for an owner i i'm i strategically think about every bid i always go for a big bid at the

Starting point is 00:29:13 end whenever i think that my underbidder is about to stop or if they're getting weak i always give the give the highest bit of confidence that they should be bidding a big number at the end so often i get like a fifty thousand or a hundred thousand or a twenty five thousand dollar bid right at the end when we might have been going in you know fives or tens or twenties yeah now i do that because in my mind i'm thinking far out if they bid one more grand here or five grand they're going to own this so i i say thing i give the buyer confidence and they give me 50 so they might give me a 50 000 bid and then they own it so for me i'm strategically thinking about getting the best price for the owner i categorically have absolutely no doubt that any vendor that sells

Starting point is 00:29:59 that i auction for they know that they're getting my best every single time yeah you know they absolutely know that and look sometimes sometimes the auction goes in such a way that i that i get a big price and and i believe better than anyone else and sometimes it doesn't you know i'm i think it'd be unrealistic to think that you know you get amazing results every single time but i do consistently get better results and i and i i absolutely give my personal guarantee is that i try my best every single time and i put all of my experience and energy and and love into into getting that result you know i can be talking to you about riding a horse and playing with cows and i can flick the switch and go straight into auction mode at the click of a finger and my brain

Starting point is 00:30:47 my brain just flicks straight to right who are the buyers why are they buying how many do we have who's the vendor why are they selling i look at things logically i don't like to get involved in the in the wholesale i don't like to be involved with the vendor before auction day i don't like to know much about the buyers before auction day but i walk in it can take me two three minutes to sum up a situation and go right this is the strategy bang let's go execute love it love it because you're reading the emotion and the psychology on the spot. Yep. And drive.

Starting point is 00:31:24 And you've got a captive audience too, right? Yes. You've got people who want to buy and you've got a vendor who wants to sell. So my role is to bring this deal together. Yeah. Yeah, love it. Absolutely love it.

Starting point is 00:31:36 That's been very enlightening from a number of perspectives there. i'd love to turn now to current market conditions because if we're dumb enough to listen to the mainstream media and and you know allow them to scare the horses to the point where everyone wants to sit on their hands and and wait which i love times like this because i think it's the greatest opportunity particularly from a buying perspective because whenever everyone else is uh is sitting on for your fence that that's the time it counts but uh i'd love to get your thoughts on current property conditions and and what sellers and buyers should be doing about it and the options fit into that equation yeah it's a very interesting question bushy um i reckon i've been one of the

Starting point is 00:32:24 most optimistic people about the market for my whole career if there's probably one time that i'm starting to be a little bit pessimistic it's probably now um i i'm not here which might surprise you yeah i i i think that our i think that our market will as a growth trajectory i think that the market is fine okay i think that um people will buy people will sell births deaths marriages divorces yeah there's always a reason for someone to want to um for someone to want to move i think there are a few things that are just that have happened um in the last little while that have influenced a very large boom one of those has been particularly in rural lifestyle assets you know people being cooped up in their home during covid lockdowns that's influenced prices the way

Starting point is 00:33:11 people change their thinking around living um the the the work from home thing has become a real aspect people are thinking about bigger bigger spaces more room for studies that has influenced people we've had interest rates at just incredible lows um it has it is it has influenced the ability for someone to borrow money um and i'll put it in perspective like it wasn't if you look at the borrowing capacity of somebody based on servicing rates of of uh interest rates based on servicing rates not long ago like somebody who could have borrowed two million bucks right now or or in in three months time when we get a couple more interest rate rises that same person is only going to be able to borrow 1.6 million yeah so it takes it takes

Starting point is 00:33:57 400 000 of equity um out of the out of the buying pool for someone to spend money on now does that change the fact that they're going to buy a two-bedroom unit instead of a three-bedroom townhouse possibly does it change that they're gonna they're going to not buy in in paddington sydney and they're going to buy in darlinghurst possibly um i think that i think that we've had a lot of things going for the market and i and i think that there are a few things that are changing the way people feel about the market i have a bit of a pessimistic view pessimistic view about the back end of spring i think those vendors who are on the market early in spring are going to do better than those on the market later in spring yeah um i will say this that in the last seven

Starting point is 00:34:49 to ten days a lot of the agents that i've been speaking to are actually feeling a lot more positive about the market yeah um that they're feeling like that that i i think this is also influenced by some better quality homes coming on the market yes i think one thing that's kind of propping things up right now is that there hasn't been a lot of property on the market um because winter has you know we we've just come out of of these lockdown periods we've we've just come out of um school holiday period um there's been a lot of people who are fed up with real estate prices being so high that um a lot of people have just thought you know what let's just sit on the sideline see what happens over the next little while and and i know for me for

Starting point is 00:35:33 somebody who now is looking at selling all of our investment properties and someone and obviously i'm going to be looking to to re-enter the market i don't feel any stress whatsoever about having to buy in a fear of missing out form i have no stress about that whatsoever in fact i think the fear of missing out has left the market and it's almost like a fear of paying too much yeah now i know that i know that different every state has different market like i know adelaide's still been going very strong right um melbourne melbourne's come off a bit sydney's come off a bit brisbane's still going all right but it's coming off a bit you know if you look at these if you look at markets all around australia um we we as australians we have a passion for wanting

Starting point is 00:36:19 to live in our own home and i highly i absolutely support that but i'm i'm renting at the moment um and it's killing me um i'm renting i'm looking at places that i that i want to own and I looked at a house that I want to rent for me and the kids for when I have the kids and I'm just thinking far out, $2,000 a week, $3,000 a week, $4,000 a week. This is ludicrous. I need to buy a property because for where interest rates are, that's just like interest-only repayments, right?

Starting point is 00:36:50 So I want to buy something. I think long-term what saves us is that there is a vested interest for the government to see property prices remain the same or go up. There is a vested interest for the government to see transactions take place. I think it's the biggest thing that holds our market back, holds people from moving is stamp duty. It is a killer.

Starting point is 00:37:23 It is an absolute killer. I sold a property the other day and the buyer had to pay stamp duty of $2 million. You know, you want to go and buy a $2 million asset in Sydney, $2 million, right? And I know that's a lot of money, but if you think about a $2 million house in Sydney, you're not buying the best house. That's $100,000 in stamp duty that you've got to write a check for.

Starting point is 00:37:45 What for? That is the biggest thing that holds people back from moving, and i think one of the biggest restraints on why prices go up so much because people don't move and they hold hold property and they stay in their properties longer so um but the government need the government need that income um state governments need that income to support local economies um and to to obviously um have money to spend on infrastructure and roads and etc etc like there is a vested interest for the government to see the market hold up they cannot afford for australians to lose a fortune on their properties because we have so much money invested in our

Starting point is 00:38:22 homes well yeah i agree with you that i think the latest figures damon over 54 percent of of our personal wealth is in our property uh and and that's that's about votes so it doesn't matter whether it's at federal state or local government level i all recognize that if they're doing anything that's going to potentially dent that and dent that confidence then it can have a spiralling effect so i think there's a an automatic sort of safety net sitting underneath that uh that that is going to ensure that property continues to be supported i think the big issue though at the moment though and i'd love your thoughts on this uh we're certainly seeing the upper ends of the market because the upper upper ends of the market are where you know the property prices

Starting point is 00:39:07 were led initially they're now the ones that are falling but if you're in that sweet spot uh of demand that's still in the the sort of affordable piece and i'm probably thinking about it this more from an investor perspective than an owner occupier perspective or or you are looking more broadly so that you know that the a lot of property buyers uh you know they think about their backyard not being borderless but i've always said it's not about when to buy property It's about where, because there's 15,353 suburbs in the country. Agreed. And, yes, we've had a massive boom in property values

Starting point is 00:39:48 in the last couple of years, but if you're in an area that's got significant positive change happening, whether that be through infrastructure, rezoning, gentrification, new industry and employment opportunities that are going sustain ongoing growth then that's there they are there you just need to know where they are and then then be smart about uh securing properties in those locations but what are your thoughts about that oh mate you never said a true word i i don't buy property because it's cheap i buy the right one you know and i said earlier but the good ones always sell well i'd actually rather be at an

Starting point is 00:40:26 auction competing against 10 15 people because i know that it's a really good asset and i know that that a lot of people want to buy it that's they want to buy it because good quality so for me there are a few non-negotiables you know like i think about the aspect that it has it's parking it has if it's important parking is important maybe it's not important that's okay um you know i think about you can change you can change the aesthetics of a property you can't change the street it's in the location you're buying in or its aspect you can't change that yeah okay but but think about good quality assets and you can trade out of those good quality assets at any time for within 5% to 10%.

Starting point is 00:41:03 Yeah. Now, you win some, you lose some. Like, I think if you're trading in and out of stuff for like a swing of 5%, 10%, then that's a good thing. I absolutely agree with you. Buy the right property, not just a property. Don't think about when the right time to buy is and when the right time to sell is.

Starting point is 00:41:23 You know, if you love a family home and you want to buy that that's going to have a positive impact on your life for you and your kids, then you buy it. Like if you can afford it, you buy it. Don't even think about it. Just buy the house. But if it's an investment and you don't need it, then just look for what you feel is the right investment for you.

Starting point is 00:41:46 Look, I think our market is still in a good position. When I say I'm pessimistic about the market, that's not to say that I think the market's going to tank. I just think that as more property comes on the market, will be challenged in in sydney the top end of the market is actually still doing very well um the bottom end of the market um i think we'll start start seeing do pretty well investors will start coming back into the market absolutely why because rents are rising in sydney um you know we're seeing rents start to rise the covid kind of rent reductions and things are all getting

Starting point is 00:42:22 flying out the window um people more more people are coming to the country i think one thing that people maybe don't think about is that if you think about baby boomers um right now you know like a lot of generational wealth is going to start getting transferred over the next 10 20 years yeah um and that wealth is going to be invested where into property and into the shares yeah so i actually i'm long term i'm very optimistic about the real estate market um and far out i told you story at the beginning of this podcast about dad selling my nan's house for 815 and you know now it's probably worth four four and a half mil like that is a real life example of of property since i started in real estate to where it is today now if you had have said to someone back a bit back

Starting point is 00:43:12 in the day hey this house is going to be worth four million bucks one day that a shot dead said you're an absolute idiot um right now it's hard to believe that that same house might be worth 8 million or 12 million or whatever it might be but you know what maybe it's going to be and we've got a lot of people wanting to come to the country you know we've got more and more um more and more people coming from other countries with big big budgets and big bucks seeing our seeing our country as a safe haven and moving here moving our lives here and buying property and buying up real estate it's a thing it is we are the we are the envy of the world damon it's it's very easy to forget that because we're sort of we're living and eating and breathing

Starting point is 00:43:56 it every day but that is the the reality uh we've cut we've come through covid pretty much better than anywhere else around the globe and uh people are itching to get in so uh i think from that perspective we're in a pretty exciting place so uh bring that on mate that that's been a very very good conversation around the key elements there i wouldn't mind now shifting into what i call the the ambush fast four and just the the so i'll give you a uh should i be worried about these questions but i should give you a blindfold and a cigarette i think uh just to set it up but to kick that off but what's your favorite quote and why oh look the first one that comes in my head is you never get a second chance to make your first impression i actually said it earlier

Starting point is 00:44:47 when i when i was in uh property management a prospective tenant walked in uh i had a big lineup of people out the front he tripped over that little metal strip that holds the carpet down um and he fell over and yeah he got up and he said you never get a second chance to make your first impression so i've always thought of that the my favorite quote that i i instill in my children about wealth is um is i say to my you could ask any of my kids what's dad's favorite quote on wealth in the hillway they always say make money while you sleep yeah yeah that's a cracker it's an absolute cracker it's it sums it up in terms of where people's thinking should be and if we switch into the literary front then uh what's the top book that you'd recommend we read

Starting point is 00:45:33 and why you might be surprised to know that i'm an incredibly poor reader i uh i actually hate reading books i i feel like sometimes it's one of my downfalls but i can tell you uh i did read many many many years ago um dale carnegie's book how to win friends and influence people i enjoyed i enjoyed that book i'm currently reading michael uh jordan's uh book on called winning um and i'm really i'm loving that i'm getting a lot out of it um yeah i also from a personal point of view i i took a lot out of reading father chris riley's books and that was actually the catalyst for uh for me getting involved in youth off the streets and going working on the food van and and then becoming an ambassador and actually sitting on you know

Starting point is 00:46:21 being a part of their development committee and and uh doing a lot of charitable things like one thing i do is the real estate sleep out i've done that i that i organize off the back of um my work with father chris so his books have been good too yeah no crackers uh back in the investment arena then what what's both the worst and the best piece of investment advice that you've ever received um i think the best piece the best piece of investment advice that i've that i've received look i i i think buying these properties and holding them um as as hard as it's been sometimes because over the years we've had a few growth spurts and i've wanted to reduce debt on a family home i think holding those have been a good thing i i think from an investment point

Starting point is 00:47:12 of view my accountant has always been a has always drilled into me about reducing your non-deductible debt and increasing your deductible debt yeah so like that has been something that i think about a lot like what i'm trying to say is pay off your home loan um and buy investment properties off the back of the equity in your home that that debt in the investment properties is good debt the invest having having having uh debt on your own personal home um whilst it's better debt than credit card debt it's still not good debt um you want to get rid of that because it's just dead money that you're throwing away so i think that's probably the best advice thinking about ways why you structure debt um for worst advice i've ever received from an

Starting point is 00:47:59 from an investment um look i um i i i hope my business partners in the restaurant don't don't hear me say this which they probably will but it hasn't been the best financial investment i've ever made i'll give you the tip bushy but um it's been one of the best emotional investments that i've ever made i'll also say that i i love the boys and uh i absolutely love what they're doing the restaurant game has been very challenging during covid very challenging and um and it's it's not one of my better investment decisions but i'm i'm so thrilled to be part of it um because the boys put their their whole lives and their you know their everything every aspect of them they put into making this thing successful and for that i'm very grateful yeah i love it and

Starting point is 00:48:52 i love it for them yeah brilliant mate they are all consuming restaurants there's no question about it from that perspective uh let's let's turn to um happy habits rewarding rituals or daily disciplines that you employ yeah which one of those has contributed most to your success today do you think i think the whole look good feel good thing has always been a big thing for me i've mentioned that i've kind of struggled a bit with with fitness in the last little while um you know to put it in perspective when i when i raced um when i raced the last big race that i did 100ks in the blue mountains i think i weighed in at about 64 kilos on race day um so i'm a bit of a whippersnapper but um but now i'm probably why i'm about 10 kilos heavier than that so for

Starting point is 00:49:39 someone who's sort of 65 kilos roughly um you know to be sort of 73 74 is not great but health and fitness has been a big thing car wash haircut looking good feeling good um you know i'm always on brand you know my orange tie is as is something that is signifies a cooley auctioneer and signifies Damien Cooley. I recognize the importance of brand awareness and I recognize that that is something that I really hold dearly across my team. I shave every day. I shave every single day. If one of my guys turn up to the office and they haven't shaved, I send them home, go and shave it's not the fact that you have a beard it's the fact that you have not acted on the discipline that you need to shave every single day because you've started the day in a way that

Starting point is 00:50:38 isn't right for you now you've allowed yourself to to not do something which means that you will allow yourself to not make those 20 phone calls or not make those 50 phone calls or not win that deal or might make that agreement with someone it's it's you're letting yourself down yeah so i actually don't care whether someone has a bid or not but it's it's the little one percenters that make the biggest difference to the way you feel which changes everything totally agree and the way you feel is the important piece because whether you're aware of it or not subconsciously It's having an impact on how you think, act and perform. So some great wisdom in exactly that there, mate.

Starting point is 00:51:22 Just to summarise our awesome conversation today, mate, we've covered a lot of turf and you've revealed a lot of gold, but what would your key takeaways and immediate actions for listeners that need to take that on board be today? Stop procrastinating. The only thing that holds you back is yourself. own it understand that you you are in charge of your future you you you are writing the plan right now and if you don't have a plan if you're not living your life by design grab a piece of

Starting point is 00:51:55 paper today don't say you're going to do it tomorrow don't say you're going to do it this afternoon grab a piece of paper right now personally i use a black folder which has no lines in it it's just pages blank pages um you need to go down you need to write out your personal goals for the rest of this year you need to write out your business goals for the rest of this year and you need to route write out all of your life goals and the life goals are the really fun ones um and i've i've shared a couple of mine um you know in in business goals just to give um people an example i can share a couple of a couple with you um i want to have finance meetings with pwc my accountants and numeric eight my bookkeepers monthly um you know i want to

Starting point is 00:52:38 increase a certain client's auction fee by the first of september um i want to raise a hundred thousand dollars for youth off the streets at the real estate sleep out um i want to have all staff back in the office by the first of september after work from home um you know what i want to assess the top five metrics for cooley my total fees the volume operating costs space um an average fee these are all these are all uh and i said here i want to be quoted 12 times in the media before 30 december they're an example of business goals for me personally my personal goals i want to go on at least three walks a morning with nikki my partner um i want to bring my kids horses to centennial park for eva and dax um i want to do a butchering class at churchill's because i'm something that

Starting point is 00:53:23 might might uh might surprise you if i wasn't an auctioneer mate i'd love to be a butcher and there you go and i uh i said to myself far i've been talking about this for years and this week literally this week i went and booked booked three classes at victor churchill's in wallara to uh to learn butchering just for personal interest yeah i want to i want to plan a strategy by the 30th of september for leasing the function space in our new offices i want to sign the lease on the lease on our new premises in double bay but they're an example of business goals so write out your goals biggest takeaway write them out if you don't have written goals you are not living your life by design guaranteed and when you achieve a goal i i take that goal i

Starting point is 00:54:08 cross it off in my goal sheet and i put it into my achievements folder right not folder like an achievements list and then every time you're having a crap day i go back and i read those achievements and i go far out man life's pretty good you've done a lot yeah um but you should be really proud of yourself so whenever i feel down i look back at those achievements and it's a really good thing for me to um to to for self-recognition yeah it's and it's probably gratitude too mate it's uh yeah gratitude it it's all wrapped up in that and and and it's such a simple thing to do yet 99 of people don't do it uh and it's it's the one percent that that do uh have that discipline that that achieve outstanding results and and it all revolves around what you've just said there

Starting point is 00:54:55 mate so yeah absolutely gold mate it's been an awesome energizing and very engaging conversation but uh so for those in the audience who really resonated with your message like i have how can they find out more and get more involved with you damien um look social's the easiest way i would have thought i'm mostly active on instagram um at damien cooley damien spelt d-a-m-i-e-n cooley is c-o-o-l-e-y that's probably the easiest way to uh to to shoot me a message um look i'm i'm always i'm always here to help people i'm happy to pick a phone up i'm happy for you to share my email address mobile number um if you like or you can just jump on my website which is www.cooley.com.au and um yeah it's exciting it's exciting times very exciting times

Starting point is 00:55:50 you've certainly upped the ante on the excitement and engagement today mate really have enjoyed the conversation and you've shared a wealth of wisdom across a whole bunch of spheres so I know there's going to be

Starting point is 00:56:05 really strong and positive feedback from our chat today, really want to thank you for being so generous with your time Damien and we look forward to staying in touch My pleasure Bushy, thanks very much for having me on the show Awesome, thanks mate, talk soon thanks for getting invested now here's three easy ways you can take action to start making it happen

Starting point is 00:56:29 to ensure you build momentum and start living by design not default so that you're following your freedom formula firstly subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already and keep the weekly inspiration coming secondly get a copy of my book get invested for free and find out what it takes for you to invest in living more and working less. Just visit bushimartin.com.au forward slash books or knowhowproperty.com.au or click on the links in the show notes. And thirdly, join me and the Get Invested community. Each month I send a free and exclusive email full of practical self-help and wealth wisdom that our current Freedom Fighter subscribers can't wait to get. Just visit bushimartin.com.au, scroll to the bottom of the page and sign up. And there you have it.

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Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Part 2: Auctioneer Damien Cooley on the art of auctions

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