Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Part 2 - Nicola McDougall and Kate Hill on the Female Investor

Starting point is 00:00:00 And as I say, the reason why Kate and I wrote this book together is that while, you know, I write about property a lot, and I'm a finance journalist, a property journalist, I'm the chair of PIPA, I'm not a qualified property investment advisor, I'm not a buyer's agent. So I always wanted to write the book with Kate because she has much more knowledge than I do as both women. We both really wanted to share our experiences, share the good, the bad and the ugly about the property investment sector. sector, but we also just wanted to join forces so that we could help women achieve better financial outcomes throughout their lives and into retirement and help them consider their financial futures earlier in their lives. Women tend not to invest solo. It's quite rare. They can be quite tentative, but however, there's been a lot of studies out there that show that women actually tend to have better investment outcomes. Welcome to Get Invested, the leading weekly

Starting point is 00:01:03 podcast to help you unlock your full potential and enjoy your version of sustainable success that lies at the intersection of your three L's, yourself, your health, and your wealth. I'm your host and guide, Bushy Martin, and each week we go deep, sharing great conversations with proven experts in all walks of life, including the best investors, property experts, analysts leaders founders sports stars and health gurus to uncover their secret know-how and where they invest their time their skills and their money and the benefits that this creates to help you find out what it takes to break free from the grind and discover your flavor of freedom to create your freedom formula you see the truth is that everyone invests every second of every

Starting point is 00:01:50 minute of every day we're investing our time our skills our energy and our money in something Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, and sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen, not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less, and live your legacy by investing now. You'll enjoy the stories and secrets of high performers who invest for success in every

Starting point is 00:02:26 aspect of their lives and discover the top tips on how to get started, how to make the most of your investment journey, and ultimately, to be living your dream, not someone else's. As you engage in each episode, you'll glean the information, inspiration, and implementation that you need to get empowered and get invested in imagining and actioning the life that you've always dreamed about. and get invested is proudly part of property hub your home for property investment insights and inspiration make sure you subscribe now on your favorite podcast player to get every episode of get invested and realty talk which is australia's leading and longest running online

Starting point is 00:03:07 property show that's full of red hot property investing news and insights direct from all of the industry leaders and influencers you can also connect with me personally and join the get invested community of fellow Freedom Fighters at bushymartin.com.au or on knowhowproperty.com.au. Now, let's get invested. Hi, Freedom Fighters. Do you know a woman who's struggling to make ends meet? Maybe it's you. Perhaps she's concerned about her financial future or whether she's ever going to be able to afford to buy a property to call home. She might not be struggling financially now but she worries about how she's going to maintain her financial independence long term or she's

Starting point is 00:03:55 concerned about how she's going to fund her retirement or maybe she's nearing retirement and worrying that she'll have to go back to work or keep working until the day she drops or learn to survive on the smell of an Ollie rag as her income drops off the cliff when she tries to stop work. She may be your sister, your daughter, mother, auntie, mother-in-law, grandmother, cousin, work colleague or a close friend. Chances are you personally know a number of these women even if you're not aware of their personal situation because unfortunately the gender pay gap and maternity leave alongside increasing rates of divorce and separation mean that one in three women stop work with no retirement savings at all, and those that do manage to save often end

Starting point is 00:04:41 up with less than half the retirement funds of we near males. With half of all marriages ending in divorce, and many women remaining the primary caregivers to their children, there's increasing numbers of women winding up homeless after a relationship breakdown or in their twilight years because they haven't been able to buy a home of their own or create their own financial independence. Now, these are quite shocking statistics in this day and age. So what can hardworking Aussie women and men do about it? Yes, you guessed it, get invested in property. But this is easier said than done, where most investment books are written by men for men

Starting point is 00:05:21 in a male-dominated environment, where the focus is on head-driven logic and rational thought, where there's a constant reference to cutting out your heart, thinking with your head, and just focusing on the numbers. Not surprisingly, this approach doesn't warm to most women who are nurturers by nature and are heart-driven, and this is a very important distinction. As the Greek philosopher Aristotle pointed out thousands of years ago, we're all influenced to different degrees by three modes of persuasion, logos, pathos, and ethos. where logos is about rational facts logic and reason which leans towards the male tendency for head thinking pathos is about the appeal of our emotions which is more in kindred with the heart approach of women and ethos which is about our ethics trustworthiness and our character

Starting point is 00:06:11 and good decision making and sustainable success is a balance of all three it's why the combination of the collaborative approach of my awesome wife sonja and i is so powerful where one plus one equals 11, not two, because good decisions are a head and heart balance of the yin and the yang. And as my wife Sonia has taught me, we need to nurture our money and our investments like they're another member of our family, to care for them, keep an eye on them, give them tough love when needed, and support and guide them to grow and prosper so that they can look after us in our golden years. So where do women go to find investment knowledge that's better suited to their caring way in the world.

Starting point is 00:06:54 Well, up until recently, nowhere. But this has all now changed with the release of the great book, The Female Investor, that has just won the prestigious and highly contested Best Personal Finance Investment Book Award at this year's Australian Business Book Awards, or ABBAs as they're affectionately referred to, of which I'm also a proud winner of a couple of years ago and now an ongoing ABBA judge.

Starting point is 00:07:18 And we're very privileged and excited that the co-authors and now joining us on the show today to share their wisdom. Now, if you're a bloke, this is not a signal to tune out and switch off because the principles and practices contained in this great book are just as relevant, if not more so, to male investors because we need to learn to balance the books in terms of the delicate and fine line between our head and our heart. So listen up, fellas. But before we get into it, let me give you a quick rundown on the female Investors co-authors. Nicola McDougall is a successful property investor, business owner, award-winning journalist, and she's the current chair of the Property Investment Professionals

Starting point is 00:07:57 of Australia that's doing great things for the industry under her guidance, including the recent scrapping of the proposed Queensland interstate investor land tax hike. She's also the former editor of the Australian Property Investor Magazine and the co-founder of Brits and Mortar Media that's resulted from her involvement in property research, analysis, and reporting since way back in 2006. Her partner in crime and co-author is award-winning property mentor Kate Hill, who's a qualified property investment advisor and buyers agent. Kate enjoys many years firsthand experience researching real estate and making hundreds of successful property purchases for her clients. And of note, many of Kate's fabulous female clients are living proof that women of all

Starting point is 00:08:40 ages, backgrounds and circumstances can invest in property successfully. So if you want to enjoy an easy step-by-step guide on how to safely, easily, and affordably secure your financial future, whether you're a female, a male, or any other gender, The Female Investor is a great place to start. Now, we pick up from part one of our great conversation with Nicola McDougall and Kate Hill from the last episode, where we walk through their own personal investment journeys and learnings. So if you haven't listened to part one, make sure that you do that now. And it's their own histories that have provided the backdrop for their award-winning book, which we're now going to dive into. So enjoy the concluding part to this lively and engaging conversation and get invested

Starting point is 00:09:24 again with Nicola and Kate. Okay, well I've been itching to get into the book, so let's jump into that now. Nicola, I sort of might ask you, why did you write The Female Investor and what are key messages as you see it thanks bushy um well i came up with the idea in 2018 um i still have yet to work out what my epiphany was which is kind of weird but um i think it was i was about to get married for the first time in my 40s i had um you know a portfolio that i had created myself independently and i think i was really just wanting to ensure that i could um you know retain my financial independence, and my relationship, which I have done. Also, you know, as you know, probably Bushy, over the years as a professional writer, I have ghostwritten a few different books

Starting point is 00:10:24 for various people over the years. And I think I had an itching to actually have my name on the cover instead of in the liner notes. And by that stage, I was also working for myself, I was out freelancing um and oh no we just set up bmm was the first year of brooks and water media but i had been freelancing for two years before that um so i think it was about putting down on paper you know um all of the things that i have learned over the years um as a female investor myself i pitched it into wiley who is our publisher and they were keen and then i just did nothing um and then kate and i met a couple of years ago and online during covid and then last year i flew down just before delta hit actually and we went out for mocktails and tapas at the sydney opera

Starting point is 00:11:13 bar we're about the only one only people there to remember kate and um we had this long we had this great conversation for a couple of hours it's like you know best buds you don't know and then right at the end like literally at the end of our conversation I just mentioned in passing about this book that I had once pitched to Wiley and Kate's like you really need to do this and I'm like well I'm a bit busy you know there's quite a bit going on and she was like I can help you and then that was you know the the nugget of the idea to actually take it from sitting on my laptop, you know, alone and neglected for five years nearly. And so we worked on the proposal together. And yeah, we had the

Starting point is 00:11:59 book deal fairly quickly. And we had the manuscript finished about three or four months later. So and I guess what we found when we sat down at the opera bar that day was a real kindred spirit and each other were as both, you know, women, both really wanted to share our experiences share um the good the bad and the ugly about the property investment sector but we also just wanted to join forces so that we could help women achieve you know better financial outcomes throughout their lives and into retirement and help them consider their financial futures earlier in their lives and um also you know our desire in the very early days

Starting point is 00:12:41 was to if we we both said that if we managed to inspire or motivate one woman uh one woman to purchase a property when via our book and if she managed to do that then our job the whole thing would have been well worth it and we actually achieved that within a few days of the book coming out so everything out everything since then has been um you know gold glittered gravy um and certainly the award win from the other day was just you know extraordinarily thrilling for both of us brilliant key messages kate uh give us a your view on what the key message and who this book is best suited for gosh really key messages again it's it's hard to it's hard to be succinct with this stuff because we both get so passionate about it um it's to get started really it's um

Starting point is 00:13:31 i find anecdotally um you know women women tend not to invest solo it's quite rare um they they can be quite tentative this is huge generalizations of course so bear with me um women as investors are great in a couple when they've got that support but they um they they they're not they're not typically solo investors um but however they you know there's been a lot of studies out there that show that women actually tend to have better investment outcomes um men really go for it regardless it doesn't matter whether they're in a couple or not they there's no inhibition there if you like and it perhaps comes back down to those three aristotelian is that the right word um things that you were talking about earlier so um you know uh and but

Starting point is 00:14:21 perhaps with less more less successful outcomes the women do so it it's it's a rallying cry for women to just get started to not be afraid don't wait until you're in a couple you know recognize the challenges that are present in all of our lives we are on the back foot as women from the get-go in our working lives and as nicola said earlier on um you know tend to be the caregivers then go back to part-time work so superannuation you know they they retire with less than half the superannuation that men do. So the key message is get started. Don't be afraid. You can do this and you should do it. You need to do it. And don't wait. And who is it for? Literally any. It's never too late. Start as soon as you can. Be brave. Get going. But if you think it's too late,

Starting point is 00:15:18 I assure you it's not do it love it absolutely love it uh the the fact that you and I can I understand now why the the co-authoring exercise came to to me because of the writing skills uh from yourself Nicola and and then supported with uh the the property skills yourself Kate did that that create any challenges in relation to creating a consistent voice in the book I'm going to get in there straight away and say no before nicole is honest to say yes look i don't from my side no i don't think so i think we were on the same page from the word go agreed yeah yeah well nicole i might ask you um what do you think are the key differences between a female investor and a male investor oh dear um it's hard with kate's comment just before about that there's

Starting point is 00:16:13 not many solo female investors you know um that made me feel quite proud of myself um but clearly you know I have to recognize that you know I'm from a family of investors um so that knowledge and education you know I had more than than most um and also I chose to work in the industry because of my innate you know natural interest in the sector from what I you know my childhood probably pretty much you know um so i think that that i need to recognize that about myself um but i think it's you know vital that i don't know if there's any like you know differences between males and females i just think that the ability um the self-belief perhaps um isn't perhaps different between the two genders um it might be that women are you know more concerned about how they might

Starting point is 00:17:04 be able to retain the properties over the long term given you know the potential for for their lives to change right and that's what this is part of the reason why we wrote the book was the fact that you know there's women don't have generally don't have a linear career i mean many of us do if we if we don't have children or biological children of our own um but you know there are stop start there are times out of the workforce uh because of child rearing there are times out of the workforce because they might be caring for elderly parents as well so it's not a linear trajectory for women and and that creates all of these sort of like issues that happen in regards to their financial outcomes in life because they don't have the same you know straight and narrow

Starting point is 00:17:49 income earning years that men generally do so I think that a lot of women probably might worry about okay but if I buy a house and if I buy a property now and I'm in my 20s or my 30s even how is that going to work if I am out of the workforce for example and you know raising children I mean the key here clearly is you know by reading the female investor but also working with experts is to understand that you can retain that property over the long term as long as you are selecting the best one for you in the best location you know at the right time for you personally i think that that's probably a fear that they have that they might be worried about having that you know having a portfolio or even one property um that they might think that they

Starting point is 00:18:36 might not be able to retain it over the long term yeah and i love that no that that's awesome but kate um given what i said in the intro around it being you know predominantly it still is unfortunately a male dominated industry how can women overcome the sort of gender-based financial investing obstacles that they're going to come up against. Yeah, I've done quite a lot of reading around this, actually. There's, you know, there have been a number of studies done on sort of the psychology of it all in terms of women's approach to it and how that does differ with the genders. And I think S&P, I don't want to quote anything inaccurately, but I know there was an S&P

Starting point is 00:19:18 Global study done only a couple of years ago around sort of eight countries. they surveyed millions of women and a lot of them just they felt whether it was true or not women simply felt that their financial situation was not secure um so that's that's the basis that they're coming from so i i think also that the conversation you know i've come back to Nicola's story from her younger life and I was fortunate enough too to have parents who openly discussed money around the dinner table it was not a taboo subject so we need to shift the conversation from when with the children with children that and the conversation needs to be the same as it for girls as it is for boys because again there have been studies done around these

Starting point is 00:20:14 money scripts and studies that show that parents talk to their girls differently about money than they do with their with their boys and that's you know inadvertently i'm sure uh promotes that view that opinion that sort of belief in a belief in all all of us that boys are the providers and girls are the managers of the family and and that needs to change um in terms of simply encouraging having the same conversation with girls that they need to do it they can do it there needs to be that same development and encouragement of an inner confidence to secure your finances that you don't wait to get partnered up so that your man can you know help you with your investing or you know whatever that kind of leads to so you know it starts it starts from those very very early days

Starting point is 00:21:09 to me um and changing money scripts and how we talk around and and and but also as we you know i'm you know i'm obviously past childhood you know encourage conversations with your female friends you know how are you providing for your future don't let it be a taboo subject um you know talk about what you're doing and and have the conversation with your girl friends around this subject i think that's really really really important yeah i love that love that um And I agree that the days of a man being a plan are definitely well and truly gone, if they ever should have been for that matter. But I'd love to sort of glean both of your thoughts now on, because you're both working in the industry, but in different areas to some degree. Nicola, what do you see as the biggest mistakes that you see investors, whether they be female or male, making with property?

Starting point is 00:22:06 um i think that many people um think that it's look property investment doesn't need to be stressful nor does it need to be difficult but that doesn't mean that it's easy to get right either um so i think that unfortunately a lot of people may have experience of maybe buying one house or one property generally you know where they're living if they can afford it where they grew up etc and maybe let's say for example a bunch of people that actually you know maybe did quite well in the last couple of years and then they think they've got the Midas touch um I think that uh sometimes people yeah they miss they think that it's it's easy and it's and it's simple but as I say it's not necessarily like Kate and I both stuffed up didn't we we totally we got it we got

Starting point is 00:22:57 it wrong yeah and managed to to ride our way out of it and me too all right yeah we've all got the big boo-boos man but also I think that they some people don't do the necessary research that is required to ensure that if they choose to work with experts certainly a buying expert that that person is qualified and experienced enough to provide that service to them as Kate said before you know unfortunately property does not seem as a financial sort of asset instrument so anyone can pretend that they know what they're talking about when a lot of them don't um that's what i see obviously with my pippa hat on and things like that is unfortunately you know the domain of the spruka um the you know the domain of people you know following people uh these you know people

Starting point is 00:23:47 that are famous on instagram and things like that now uh who supposedly are property influencers um but don't necessarily you know they might have a flashy bits and pieces but they don't have the education, the experience, or they might not even be investing, they might not even invest in property, you know, that the strategy that they are spruiking to people might not be their own personal one. So I think that would be the number one. Clearly, as the PIPA chair, I always advocate for working with QPIAs, Qualified Property Investment Advisors, such as Kate, because these people are the ones who not only have the requested licenses in the locations that they operate in but they also have done you know they've actually gone out there and completed

Starting point is 00:24:33 additional training than what is required under the law to ensure that they are educated and you know can will provide tailored and bespoke advice to their clients and so you know I know that sounds like a bit of a sales pitch but it's the truth um you know you need to always make sure that if you're going to be you know investing hundreds and hundreds of thousands of dollars on a potential asset which you are hoping or you shouldn't be hoping you should know is going to improve your financial future and then you should um and if you are prepared to pay for your professional advice to help you achieve that then make sure that the person that is helping you is qualified to give you that advice yeah beautifully said uh kate uh what what's the if you were to sum it down to one

Starting point is 00:25:20 what's the biggest one okay um believing what you read in the media um yeah i'm finding that really that just springs to mind right now um i don't want to trash everyone but but you know but read quality and well-researched articles and don't just read a pre you know regurgitated press release don't see that as quality advice and well-researched information it's not it's someone's agenda um you know read read things that have been written written by Nicola McDougall that's what I'm going to say I don't always know that it's been written by Nicola McDougall ah but you know although I concur always there's so much misinformation out there and people just believe it because it's in a

Starting point is 00:26:22 well-known national publication and it's not um and I urge people to be discerning about what there reading and be mindful of what some what the agenda is behind that article and I know that's really hard to do but you've got to be um you you have to be like that otherwise you're never going to do anything because you're going to keep reading all these horror stories um and uh yeah you just won't get started totally agree I've been telling people for 20 years now Kate to turn off the tv and use paper to wrap their chips because that's about all they're useful for yeah yeah and then I'd say just really just not getting started you know waiting for the right time it's not it doesn't exist no such thing get going yeah 100% it's like I said it's it's always uh it's never

Starting point is 00:27:12 too late to stay but it's always too late to wait 100% like that's something I just would love you to talk to us quickly about Nicola I loved uh in reading the book where you talked about property porn so i'd love you to tell us what that is and why isn't all roses and fluffy bunnies i'd love that oh i came up with that term years ago property porn you know and it was nice to actually be able to put it out in the public forum i suppose um it's just about the fact it's a bit like the people that sit there and do you know do nothing wait wait wait for the perfect time it's It's about, you know, when we think about real estate listings, clearly they are designed to attract buyers, create emotion and potential buyers, all of these types of things. And so for me, property porn was always just about, you know, scrolling through listing after listing after listing, you know, and believing everything that you see online.

Starting point is 00:28:09 And I came up with the term like years and years ago. So, I mean, obviously listings now are next level. You know, they've all got professional photography. I remember when property styling was a new thing, man. I've been doing this stuff for so long. It was new. Now, like, you go to a house, you go to a property, it's, like, styled within an inch of its life.

Starting point is 00:28:28 And interestingly enough, because I am a, I'm an addict in looking at listings. I just love it. It just gives me a flavour of what's going on. But with the styling thing now, just about every property looks the same. They're obviously using the same stylist because they've got the same furniture, the same colours, the same mats,

Starting point is 00:28:46 the same you know exactly and i think it's about it's about you know looking past um you know how pretty it looks online um because at the end of the day as we know it's about location it's about you know the the future potential things of this nature um and yes of course you want to buy a sound property uh but that's not as important um as its location uh so i think when i was talking about property when we're talking about property porn in the book um apart from just being able to use that term in a book um you know well let's get that in there you know let me say it publicly for the first time but um it's about looking past that you know and not being caught up in the emotion of how pretty things look like there's I have had a bird's eye view of a property that's

Starting point is 00:29:34 being might be going up for auction not far from us tomorrow and honestly it's been going on for months and and whilst it is a in a good location you know the property really should be knocked down but as I said a bird's eye view if you know what I mean and but when you see the listing online geez it looks like a million bucks but it's not it really isn't however it'll probably sell well because of the location and development potential and things like that so that's what I think when I say that it's about me too, being a property porn addict, where I can just scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, you know, and then refresh, see if anything's

Starting point is 00:30:15 new each day, I don't do that anymore, because no one's going to give me any money at the moment. So I'm having a bit of a break. And kind of like in rehab. But that's, that's kind of what I meant by that. And just how you really need to look past the bells and whistles, because that listing is designed get you hooked in to get you along to the open home um and then often we've all had it man you go to some of these open homes after looking at the listing online and it's terrible you know and that's why people have to actually go or work with someone who's physically inspecting the

Starting point is 00:30:47 property for you instead of you know god forbid you know buying without buying sight unseen because not everything most of the time is what it seems spot on totally great yeah kate just to to sort of whet our appetite, can you just give us a little bit of a taste on, you know, your combined thoughts on when, where, what and how to buy? Good. You and your combined thoughts. I know.

Starting point is 00:31:16 Big question. I know. But just if you're going to sort of sum up. Two minutes or less, please. Yes, in three sentences or less. um when um when when you can uh understand property cycles so we talk about this obviously at great length in our amazing award-winning book when understanding property cycles is one thing of when to buy yep but it's also there's a when to buy for you personally um there's a where

Starting point is 00:31:48 don't be afraid to buy interstate it's obviously going to be dependent on your budget your cash flow needs so where we'll come down to all of those things your personal risk profile but also obviously great growth drivers of your location choice and we talk about that a lot yes what to buy you need to buy what is appropriate and in demand by the local people there not you so we are buying that property that is what you are buying and how to buy will again depend on the location is it a is it an auction is it sale by private treaty you need to know the ins and outs of the local purchasing process because it does vary from state to state, and we go through all of that

Starting point is 00:32:43 in great detail. Yeah, love it. Beautifully done, by the way. I put you on a fair bit of pressure there, but you gave me some pieces of gold. I'm going to throw this open, this next one. Again, there's some great stuff in the book and some of the examples and case studies you show,

Starting point is 00:32:59 but I'll leave it to either of you to answer this one. tell us about the the pink kitchen cupboard question i'll take i'll take it um the pink kitchen cupboard it's it's one of my favorite little things where i'm i'm urging people to when they are scrolling through for mentioned property porn um to not be swayed by personal tastes and it really it comes back down to what you're buying you're not buying for you so you might scroll through a property listing and see the pink kitchen and recoil in horror because you hate pink um i know that one of the three of us here does not but you know if if you i thought orange was the yeah yeah yeah no i know it's me it's me i like pink um i love orange i

Starting point is 00:33:49 actually loves orange um but let's say you know you see the pink kitchen and you recoil in horror And I can't possibly buy that property. But what you're missing there is that the local people in that location love a pink kitchen for whatever reason. So the pink kitchen is really just a metaphor to not be put off by something in that property that you personally don't like or wouldn't want or, you know, you don't see why that's there. You need to have done enough research to recognise that that pink kitchen is exactly what those local people are looking for. So you need to be unemotional and know who you're buying for and why.

Starting point is 00:34:28 That's the pink kitchen cupboard. Yeah. And I know myself that I love finding properties that have got really bad colour schemes because I know that a lot of people are going to be turned off by it. Horrified, yeah. We all know how cheap a tin of paint is and the impact I have. So no, that's awesome. The other thing that I wouldn't mind, and perhaps Nicola, if you can comment on this, because you probably see this as well, but I see a lot of accidental investors who, you know, they go to buy a new home and they go, oh, I know what we'll do.

Starting point is 00:35:04 We'll keep our existing home as a rental because it seems like a good idea. What's your take on that approach? yeah i guess i'm kind of that person i suppose in a way from the very beginning because my first property was my first home and then i turned it into an investment property um i think that i think it's a sound idea as long as the property that you are turning into an investment property is worth holding on to and is actually going to be beneficial to your finances over the long term um clearly there's some issues with with financing and things like that in regards to loan structures if it has been your PPOR versus an investment property so I look I'm a bit on the fence with that because if I say oh no you shouldn't do it well then that just counts

Starting point is 00:35:51 me and I did that I think a lot of people don't obviously and then we talk about this a lot in the book and one thing that we really wanted to put forward in the book which is quite different to many other you know related books out there is that we don't suggest a particular strategy we're giving all the information that you know women and men who read the book um need to understand so they can you know make their own sound decisions on property investment as a strategy for them um so i yes and answer that question you might have stumped me there i think that if it suits you personally and that property stacks up as an investment, notwithstanding any financial issues that you might need to iron out, meaning finance, meaning mortgages, I think that

Starting point is 00:36:39 that could be a sound idea. However, there's also the argument that if you sold that property and you've done okay out of it and it allowed you to purchase a more superior property, which could do more heavy lifting in the capital growth growth stakes over the years well then that's a sound idea too so in answer to your question bushy it i would say it depends i'm sure kate would have a firm opinion oh she does she does yeah let's hear it kate well i think that um it does depend you're right love um thank you the existing home you need to be completely objective um so there's two things the loan structure that that the you know how how much debt have you paid off on that existing property it being your home people typically pay

Starting point is 00:37:34 that off if you are keeping that as an investment property and then buying a new home to live in then your loans are going to be upside down you're going to have a very heavily paid off investment property where it's going to affect your taxable income because you've got a low debt on an income-producing asset, and then you're going to have a very high loan on a non-tax deductible debt. So do you see what I mean about those loans being upside down? Totally, totally. Often in that situation, if you have paid a lot of that money off, massive disclaimer, or I'm not a financial advisor, then typically you would sell that existing home and put all

Starting point is 00:38:18 your equity into the new one so that you are reducing that non-tax deductible personal debt as much as possible. However, if you've got all that money in offset, you haven't paid any of that loan down and the property is in a genuinely good investment area, but you need to be really objective about that and that's very hard to do because people love their properties they have an emotional attachment to them because they've lived there they think it makes a great investment it doesn't necessarily not necessarily so so you really need to assess objectively whether that is going to be a good investment property whether it's worth keeping that's very hard to do so yeah yeah it's spot on and that's that the objectivity is the hard part because it's all it is that

Starting point is 00:39:07 attachment and i often say to people that the chance of your home if you convert into rent being the highest growth and best cash flow opportunity amongst the 11 million yes country in about 15,353 odd different suburbs is probably pretty slim slim so i agree yes absolutely awesome uh look uh i'm really going to encourage everyone listening to grab a copy of the book it really is a a good read uh whether you're a female male or anything in between but I want to sort of jump now into what I'd like to call the ambush fast four which is the the bushfire lightning round where I both give you a blindfold and a cigarette and I ask you some very quick questions I'm scared uh Kate uh kick that one off what's your favorite quote and

Starting point is 00:39:53 why my favorite quote um I'd say for the last uh 12 to 18 months so far um it has been by the most magnificent human being elliot kipchoge marathon runner extraordinaire which is no human is limited yeah love it that is that is self-explanatory right there what about you uh nicola what's your favorite quote um my favorite quote um and i it was told to me from a friend many years ago is uh save your worry for when there's something to worry about um which is is important for someone like me who has a generalized anxiety disorder so I generally try to you know keep that in mind most days when I can you know feel myself sometimes overthinking things a little bit too much and certainly in property investment the fear of things that probably may never happen

Starting point is 00:40:48 will probably stop you from doing it so you know save that worry for when there's something to worry about and what I've learned over my life is that you know when the when the big stuff goes down you know you're generally quite capable of dealing with it but it's the thinking about it which makes it seem much worse yeah i love that uh and while we're talking about it nicola what's apart from the female investor what's the top book that you'd recommend we read and why oh dear just generally just any type of book or property investment book or yeah it's your your definition really yeah i mean most of the audience are probably looking at the investment place but if you think there's a better better book beyond that we're all ears oh goodness now

Starting point is 00:41:28 you put me on the spot um i would like to say your book bushy um clearly and then also um for those that are very very very early in their in their in their property investment journey obviously we're not the female investor because we're confident that they will be reading it but i might obviously i was able to talk about this the other day and that i'm very happy to announce that And I have been the editor of the third edition of Property Investing for Dummies, which comes out in February, and that's a Wiley brand. So that will be coming out in February. It's the first new edition for 10 years.

Starting point is 00:42:06 So that's a really, honestly, it's a very big book. It's about 350 pages and very, very granular information. So that would probably be the, apart from your book, Bushy, and our book, I would say my new book which is coming out in february i love it i love it i'm sort of uh i'm gonna jump ahead here a little bit but uh and and ask you this one kate uh what's what's both the best and the worst piece of investment advice that you've ever received come on i had a book lined up and everything now had time to think about it um we'll chuck it in there chuck it in there in there it's called the war of art everyone's heard of the art of war there's a book called the war of art

Starting point is 00:42:48 steven pressfield and it i just it's small it's an easy read and it's magnificent it's just all about what keeps a lot of us from doing what we long to do what we need to do why is there this naysayer within us how can we avoid roadblocks um and you know from starting to some dream business venture to writing a novel etc etc it is spot on and you will spend the entire book nodding going yep that's me and um yeah anyway uh worst and best fees of investment oh my gosh uh buy when you best buy when you can as often as you can within your means and risk profile that's what i would say but like invest right when you buy and invest when you can as often as you can within your means and your risk profile um and the worst uh really would be just uh that it was okay to buy

Starting point is 00:43:42 in a regional Queensland mining town. What about you, Nicola? Oh, yes, I concur with Kate, you know, and as someone, you know, purchasing whenever you can, when it's the right time for you, personally, you know, financially, regardless of what the market's doing at the time, the worst piece of advice was obviously buying off the plan in a city, Brisbane.

Starting point is 00:44:10 um however i think most um people not most some people clearly not listeners of this show um still attempt to time the market um thinking that they will be able to pick the bottom or the top of the market or the ideal time to buy when we know the ideal time to buy is whenever it's right for you but i think back to 2020 you know and all the doomed there's a doomsday say is out there going prices are going to fall 30 and they obviously increase by 30 um there were a number of people who um you know they probably did try to time the market then i suppose uh the whole buy when others are fearful which you know can work if you know what you're doing and you're working with experts but i think the whole trying to time the market is just it's a non-strategy and not and

Starting point is 00:45:00 it should be a non-starter yeah yeah what totally agree yeah let's let's turn to personal habits rewarding rituals and daily disciplines that that and perhaps give me one each uh that you employ yet that's contributed most to your investment success okay kick me off um running i'm a big long distance love my long distance running it's meditative and it helps me sort the world's problems out in my head um it keeps me focused and it's just knowing that i will improve long term that i will get better it it just keeps me focused um and yeah so it's that it's it's running exercise and the resilience that goes with that yeah it's i know it messes with your mind man when you're doing a marathon you have you know that there's cycles that you go through you know

Starting point is 00:45:52 Know that it will end, the pain will end, and that you will, at the end of it, you will love it and you'll be utterly thrilled that you did it. Yeah, awesome work. It sounds like writing a book, Kate. But Nicola, what's a happy habit that's contributed most to your investment success, do you think? Yes, well, one of the many things that Kate and I have in common

Starting point is 00:46:13 is that we both exercise a lot. I've always done a lot of exercise and sport throughout my life. uh did did do a little bit of one running there for a while i don't do that anymore however i do uh make sure i go for uh probably between seven or eight kilometer walk every morning um i also am involved in other sports like dragon boat racing and also outrigger canoe racing um so for me it's that sort of uh that commitment to exercise which makes me you know feel have the endorphins not only just the endorphins but fit and healthy and feel well physically and mentally and then that allows me not only to you know um think more clearly but obviously it's

Starting point is 00:46:57 beneficial for my personal life my professional life my mental health which is of number one importance to me as well so kate and i are both uh big exercise junkies i love that i love that we have the same thing i know often we're all sort of like oh you can you check check you know whatever, da-da-da, she goes, oh, no, I'm off doing that. And then she'll say, do you want to chat? Then I say, oh, no, I'm at Outrega or something. So, you know, we prioritise exercise in our lives because it's so beneficial to us.

Starting point is 00:47:26 Yeah, likewise. 100% agree. Well, look, sort of to put a bow around our awesome conversation today, guys, I'd love to, Kate and I'll get you to kick this off, what are the sort of key takeaways for aspiring investors that we need to be eating you love a key takeaway don't you you love to have me summarizing these things and two just get started don't wait for the perfect time there is no such thing yeah love that what about you Nicola I would agree and obviously you know I'm a strong proponent of education you know

Starting point is 00:48:04 more generally um i would make sure that you do the you know the requisite um reading you know follow the right experts you know read read books that are by bona fide experts who know what they're talking about who have been there and done that including who have made mistakes like you know people aren't prepared to admit the times they've stuffed up um i would hazard a guess that you know not telling the full truth um so i would suggest that you know if you are interested in property investment, you know, as a wealth creation vehicle, make sure that you cherry pick, you know, a hand, a small handful of experts who you choose to follow, make sure they're bona fide experts, you know, read thoroughly, read well, keep an eye on, you

Starting point is 00:48:52 know, alarmist stories, which are just clickbait and really, you know, if you're following certain experts, look out for them when they might be, you know, on shows like this or in blogs or in the news and things like that. And just make sure that, you know, whilst you should always be responsible for your own education, there is a plethora of buying experts out there these days who can help guide you and lead the way. Yeah, beautifully said. Awesome, guys. It's been a great conversation. We've only really just scratched the surface of what we could be talking about for a thousand days I think but for those that have been listening who've really resonated with your message one where can they get a crap with the book and two how can they get in touch

Starting point is 00:49:36 with you both yeah thanks Bushy obviously the female investors you know have been supported very well in the Australian landscape and also it's actually for sale globally as well which was a huge thrill for for both of us so any good bookstores Booktopia has been a massive supportive supporter of of the female investor so if you prefer to you know purchase your books online you can do so through there all of your big major retailers as well around around the country um to get in touch with kate and i we have the femaleinvestor.com.au if you just head um to that website you can either you can actually buy a book from there too you can listen to kate's great podcast female investor podcast and touch base with us you can also see us on social media

Starting point is 00:50:19 and things, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a big sort of vehicle for both of us and certainly for me professionally as well. So there's plenty of, look, we're all over the place. Bushy, like, you know, doesn't take you much to hunt us down. I'm just saying that. No, I totally agree with that. Anything to add to that, Kate?

Starting point is 00:50:38 Just we will, there's a free chapter of the book you can download from the Female Investor website. If anybody wants to talk to me personally about their property investing or their journey they can email me at kate at advisable with an e in the middle dot com dot au i love it guys look uh been a real pleasure i've been wanting to talk to you guys for ages again fantastic work on the book it really is a an awesome read and so for those that that haven't got their head around it please make sure you grab yourself a copy and uh i look forward to continuing the conversation with you both in the days ahead as we get you

Starting point is 00:51:17 you back on the show and and i get to talk to you on realty talk on on topics of interest for the industry thank you so much bushy it's been a pleasure to be with you thanks kate thanks thanks bushy it's always great to chat thank you so much for the opportunity awesome talk soon guys bye bye thanks for getting invested now here's three easy ways you can take action to start making it happen to ensure you build momentum and start living by design, not default, so that you're following your freedom formula. Firstly, subscribe to this podcast if you haven't already and keep the weekly inspiration coming. Secondly, get a copy of my book, Get Invested, for free and find out what it takes for you to invest in living more and working less. Just visit

Starting point is 00:52:05 bushimartin.com.au forward slash books or knowhowproperty.com.au or click on the links in the show notes. And thirdly, join me and the Get Invested community. Each month I send a free and exclusive email full of practical self-help and wealth wisdom that our current Freedom Fighter subscribers can't wait to get. Just visit bushimartin.com.au, scroll to the bottom of the page and sign up and there you have it in three easy steps you're on your way to dusting off your forgotten dreams and making them a reality get invested is proudly part of the property hub your home for property investment insights and inspiration when you subscribe to the show you get all of your get invested episodes along with realty talk australia's longest running and

Starting point is 00:52:54 leading online property show for RedHop Property Investing News and Insights, direct from all of the industry leaders and influencers. And finally, feel free to connect with me on Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn, as I'd love to hear your feedback, your inspiration, your ideas and your questions and queries anytime. Thanks for listening. Hear you next week. And as always, dream as if you'll live forever and live as if the day's your last. you

Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Part 2 - Nicola McDougall and Kate Hill on the Female Investor

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