Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Part 5: How to survive in uncertain times with Katrina McCarter

Episode Date: April 25, 2020

In times of crisis, Mums are more important than ever. And Katrina McCarter is the undisputed mother of all Mums. Katrina is a successful author, an award-winning international speaker and founder of Marketing to Mums – she’s a real go-getter trailblazer and expert strategist in the field of selling to mums – our most powerful consumer.  For 15 years, she’s worked with companies who focus on helping mums, including Bonds and Booktopia.  She’s also the founder of award winning online shopping website, Bubbler.com.au, which boasts a community of more than 150,000 mums. As a mum of three Katrina now owns the only marketing and research consultancy in Australia that specifically works with companies who market to mums. Katrina’s proven system is outlined in her best selling book Marketing to Mums: How to Sell More to Australia’s Most Powerful Consumer. Her first book went to #1 on Booktopia’s Business Bestseller list outselling the likes of global literary giants Simon Sinek and Tim Ferris.   She is really passionate about teaching marketers, brand leaders and entrepreneurs about the enormous opportunity which exists by deeply understanding and respecting mothers Australia wide. And her new book, The Mother of All Opportunities is a must read and a fitting title for our informative discussion today that will give you all of her mother’s wisdom on how to survive and thrive in the decade ahead. As you’ll hear, Katrina has a very Infectious uplifting energy – so if you’re looking for a positive injection then you’re going to love today’s great chat with Katrina McCarter. Katrina's book recommendation: The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks Connect with Katrina: www.katrinamccarter.com www.katrinamccarter.com/outloud  www.marketingtomums.com.au www.marketingtomums.com.au/book www.marketingtomums.com.au/podcast Get Invested is the podcast dedicated to time poor professionals who want to work less and live more. Join Bushy Martin, one of Australia’s top 10 property specialists, as he and his influential guests share know-how on the ways investing in property can unlock the life you always dreamed about and secure your financial future. Remember to subscribe on your favourite podcast player, and if you're enjoying the show please leave us a review. Find out more about Get Invested here https://bushymartin.com.au/get-invested-podcast/  Want to connect with Bushy? Get in touch here https://bushymartin.com.au/contact/  This show is produced by Apiro Media - http://apiropodcasts.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In terms of the short-term stuff, I think that there are three critical things that anyone should be looking at right now, and that is, first up, manage your mindset. The decisions that you make over the coming weeks are really going to have enormous impact on your business, on your organization for months and possibly years to come. So you need to make sure that you are in a really good headspace. And so, you know, whatever you have to do, stop watching the news, get out into nature, surround yourself such that you're only speaking

with very kind of positive people. You need to be managing your headspace first and foremost. And then I think it's a matter of really understanding the budget, the money, so that you can make really informed decisions. I've had a number of, you know, meetings and phone calls with my accountant already so that the decisions that I make are going to be financially responsible decisions and I understand what my boundaries are, my parameters are, but then it's all

about marketing. This is not the time to be going dark. This is the time to, you know, really, I guess, review your marketing calendar and make some changes. Welcome to the Get Invested podcast, where we share great conversations with experts from all walks of life to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills and their money and the benefits that this has created.

You see, the truth is that everyone invests. Every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, and sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you to start living by design not by default i'm going to help you to make it happen not let it happen you'll hear the top tips

on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more work less and leave a living legacy by investing now listen to the show to discover the top tips on how to get started make the most of your investment journey and ultimately to be living your dream not someone else's. More episodes can be found on iTunes or at bussymartin.com.au forward slash get invested. Thanks for listening and now let's get invested. Hi friend fighters. How are you managing and surviving in our current radically uncertain times? What are you thinking? How are you behaving? And what are you doing to survive and thrive. What approach do you need to adopt to overcome your fears, take positive action

and optimise your opportunities? Let me answer by saying that today, mum's the word. If you're not sure how to answer these burning questions, then today's guest is going to give you some easy to follow frameworks and simple steps that will become part of the way you approach any situation moving forward, as believe me when I say, that the current climate will be a sign of things to come. So how you embrace rapid change as either a threat or an opportunity will make or break your success. And as you've already heard in the opening excerpt, Mum, that's capital M-U-M, is the

word. Mum's the word. If we break down MUM, you just need to embrace three critical things. Your mindset, your understanding of money or your cash flow, and lastly, your marketing messaging. What you say to who and how to build a collaborative community and strong long-term partnerships focused on supporting each other through the challenges that lie ahead. And mum's the word for another reason. who do you always turn to when the going gets really tough who is always there in your hour of need for most of us it's our mums someone wise once said that to survive in life you just need

air water and your mum your mum is someone who's always there for you and she'll do whatever it takes to keep you safe. Mum is someone that you run to when something goes wrong or when you feel like the world is crumbling and you just need some good solid advice and a big warm hug. Mum is always your go-to, regardless of what age you are. There's no denying there's a very special relationship we all have with our mums. Our mums have that magic touch and hugs to help us heal our wounds, both physical and emotional. In challenging times, we don't need anything more than mum's voice to say, it's going to be alright. And this makes all the difference. Your mum always has your back. Unfortunately, I lost my mum to cancer a few

years ago, but she was always my rock, God bless her. And in a strange way, she still is. When I look back on all the years I realise that without the unconditional love of mum I wouldn't be who I am or where I am today. And there isn't a day that goes by when I don't think about her. Our mums are our silent guides. Our mums are the emotional backbones of our families, our communities and our world. They are the holding place for all of our feelings and they do everything to keep us from being hurt. So in the challenging times that we're all in, it's appropriate that today's episode revolves around the importance of mums. They are our anchors in a storm and the silent powerhouse of our world. And according to

today's special guest, there are 6.2 million mums in Australia, with 140,000 women becoming mums every year. And if mums were an industry, they'd be the biggest contributor to our national GDP. Mums are responsible for $132 billion in spending in Australia every year, and they're the key decision maker across multiple industries including automotive, banking, travel and consumer goods. Yet for the most part, they remain misunderstood, misinterpreted, misrepresented, taken for granted and sadly undervalued. So if you haven't spoken to your mum today, pick up the phone and give her a call and tell her how much you love her. After my good mum passed away, I would still ring her voicemail regularly for months just to keep hearing

her loving voice. And another voice you're going to love is today's guest, Katrina McCarter. She's the undisputed mother of all mums. Katrina's a successful author, an award-winning international speaker, and founder of Marketing to Mums. She's a real go-getter trailblazer and an expert strategist in the field of selling to mums, our most powerful consumer. For 15 years she worked with companies focus on helping mums including bonds and booktopia she's also the founder of award-winning online shopping website bubbler.com.au which boasts a community of more than 150 000 mums as a mum of three herself katrina now owns the only marketing and research consultants in australia that specifically works with companies who market to mums

Katrina's proven system is outlined in her best-selling book Marketing to Mums, How to Sell More to Australia's Most Powerful Consumer This book went to number one on Booktopia's business bestseller list outselling the likes of global literary giants like Simon Sinek and Tim Ferriss She's really passionate about teaching marketers, brand leaders and entrepreneurs about the enormous opportunity which exists by deeply understanding and respecting mothers Australia-wide. And her new book, The Mother of All Opportunities,

is both a must-read and a fitting title for our informative discussion today that will give you all of her mother's wisdom on how to survive and thrive in the decade ahead. As you'll hear, Katrina has an extremely infectious and uplifting energy. So if you're looking for a positive injection, then you're really going to love today's great chat with Katrina McCullough. Welcome Freedom Fighters. Now in this time of radical uncertainty and rapid change

when our families and especially our mums are our go-to places for safety and security and our relationships and partnerships are actually going to be the lifeline that will get us through this challenging time I thought it really opportune to be talking to the mother of all mothers and the queen of strategic partnerships, Katrina McCarter. So welcome and let's get invested, Katrina. Looking forward to it, Bushy. Thanks for having me along.

Yeah, I've been wanting to talk to you for a long time. You're a KPI legend, being a member of the Key Person of Influence fraternity for some years. So it's a real privilege and I'm very humbled to be able to spend some time with you, Katrina. but for those of you who don't know you, can you sort of start off by telling us who you are, what you do and where you're currently heading? Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Bushy. Look, I've described myself as a marketing strategist, an author, a speaker and a board director. And I've actually got a couple of different businesses. My core focus is a marketing and research consultancy called Marketing to Mums where I'm actually working with businesses to

attract more mothers and families to their business. But my second business is Katrina McCarter and that's where I do some executive coaching. I teach digital marketing to corporates and I also run a program where I teach entrepreneurs how to identify and negotiate their own marketing partnerships. So I guess over time I've really learnt that I'm a doer, I'm someone that gets a lot done and that my superpower is really in seeing the world through a different lens and I'm really hired, I think, for my ability to solve, I guess,

my creative problem solving is what I'd say. Yeah, and no greater time or greater need for exactly those creative skills given the massive change that we're going through, but also the massive opportunities that's going to present. Before we sort of dig into some of that, why do you do what you do? Really easy to answer this one. I do the marketing to mum stuff because I firmly believe that mothers are our most misunderstood, misrepresented and undervalued consumer in our society.

and I know that because I experienced it myself when I became a mother 16 years ago. I was a very successful corporate career girl and became a mother and society spoke to me very differently and I really didn't like it. So that to me is kind of a personal thing that really charges me along there. The other things that I do,

things like the Marketing Partnerships Program, I do out of sheer joy. I absolutely love nothing more than working with really great people and seeing them learn a new skill that is going to enable them to, you know, grow their business or their brand by hundreds of thousands of dollars. Yeah, exciting and very satisfying, I'm sure, in that regard. Awesome. Well, let's sort of open it up a little bit. I'd love you to sort of take us back to where it all began for you and take us through your life journey in terms of where you focused your time,

your interest, your resources, your money, and where did that lead to, what did you learn from it, and how did that bring you to where you currently are today? Oh, that's some deep stuff, Bushy. There's some deep stuff in there. I'd love to crack into that and I guess talk a little bit about my influence. So I grew up over in Perth with a single mum and my younger brother, and mum was a school teacher. She went back to school when she split from my dad, and she had a very strong work ethic,

and she also liked to walk a very different path to anyone else. So anything that my mum did was not like anybody else, and we never conformed to anything. So, mum got me really uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. And one of the things that she was really big about being a single mum was that she raised a financially independent young woman. And so, when I, you know, so I was expected to get a job at 12, she signed me up to the golf course next door. And every day after school, I had to clear the fairway, pick up all the golf balls for

$2. and I did that for a couple of years but mum really stepped things up a bit for my brother, well for me actually, when I hit high school and she decided that I needed to learn how to manage money and at the beginning of every term, I was expected to submit a budget of all my projected expenses for that term so whether it was school books i might need an excursion for school whether that was going to the movies with my girlfriends in the school holidays i had to project all that way out you know 13 15 weeks out this is from 13 love it um and i'd have to submit it into mom and she'd have a discussion with me and approve it and she'd hand me over

all that money. And I was expected to manage it all throughout the term. And so, I knew it was quite different. That was not new to me. So, whilst my mates were kind of worried about what to do over the weekend, I was really stressed about my cash flow. And that remained all the way through high school. And at my engagement party, my mum very proudly handed over all my reports to my fiance and announced that I would be controlling the family finances. So, I guess to me in terms of my learnings was that I actually am really confident in terms of how to make money and how to manage money, like that's something that was really ingrained on me, but I also really now value people's differences.

It was my, you know, because it was my mum's really different approach to parenting that has led to who I am today and it's something that I now really celebrate and something that I say to my kids all the time is that it's your differences that make you special and I see that no different in business. And when I'm working with my clients, I'm always talking about, you know, let's get deep and let's understand why it is that customers choose you. It's because of your differences. So let's work out what those differences really are and let's amplify them. I tell you what, I want to celebrate your mum right here right now and you've inspired me to want to meet your mum because… Helen is her name and she will listen to this.

I often tell this story. But, yeah, she's a pretty amazing woman. Tell me, I'd like to dig right in there because often our own views of life are, you know, very formatively moulded and shaped by our good parents. And you sort of mentioned very early there that she loved to be different. She obviously celebrated being different. Why did she, one, recognise that and obviously that's become one of her values, which is now one of your values.

Where did this need and desire to be different come from? I don't know that she actively sought to be different. I'm from a really tall family. So she grew up in the gold fields and her father was a mine manager. And mum's almost six foot and she was six foot by about 14. And she dropped out of school because she was so different being so tall in a country town and she was really embarrassed about it. So she's always kind of carried that hang-up about being really, really tall. I actually have got tall children.

I've actually ended up only being 5'8", but my children are really tall because my husband's 6'5", and we take a really different approach and we really celebrate it. So my 12-year-old daughter is 6'0", and we see it as a massive kind of asset. But mum just has always been different and she's had no problems about showing that. So I'd love to share a story. For my first Holy Communion, we were non-practicing Catholics and mum liked to make a statement all the time with whatever she did and she thought that I'd look terrific instead of being a little white bride like everyone else,

that I'd look terrific in a maroon two-piece outfit with a pink and white bow tie. So resilience is something also that I really built in my childhood as well. Yeah, very admirable traits. And I just love the way your mum is celebrating that. I often say to my own son who quite often feels challenged because he doesn't always conform and, you know, there is a lot of pressure in this day and age for conformity and I think more so given the volume of social media

that tends to shape the way people act and think. But to actually recognise the value of difference and it's the different who make the difference, I think that's a massive thing for her to inculcate in you at a very early age. So hats off to Helen. Yeah, hats off to Helen. She was terrific with that and it's something that I'm really strong with with my kids as well, and I'll often say, oh, mum, you'd love her.

She's so different. And I talk about, you know, who wants to live in a beige world where we're all the same? How boring. Absolutely. Yeah, brilliant. So talk us through the rest of the journey then. So once you'd finished school, talk us about where did that lead you?

What were you doing? What did you learn? What were some of the challenges you went through? Can you sort of walk us through the history from that point onwards? Yeah, Bushy, you're jumping ahead, mate. There you go. Righto, come on. My school life really kind of shaped who I am

and I was kind of the poor kid at the rich school. So I went to a private Catholic school with some really wealthy families and, you know, a lot of my mates' families owned retail stores and, you know, very well-known wineries. And they didn't – in looking back, I felt that they didn't have to struggle for anything. And something that I felt that I always needed to do, if there was something that I really wanted to do, I had to find a way around making that happen for me because I didn't have the privilege that other people around me had. And that's something that has really shaped me as well and that's been part of that work ethic.

You know, if I can't, I need to create those opportunities for myself because they're not going to just fall in my lap like they do for other people around me. Well, I think that skill in itself, particularly in the age that we're now living through, is going to be a winning quality for anyone who will have to be creative. And I think this is the age of creativity that we're moving into. And now those who embrace that and see change as the opportunity to do something different will blossom. Those who try to hang on to what we used to do are in for a bit of a shock.

Yeah, I mean, I left high school three weeks. Yeah, three weeks after high school, I left Perth and moved to Melbourne. I was keen for adventure and I enrolled in a Bachelor of Business at RMIT and dropped out within six months because for me, Bright Lights, big city, there was just so much fun to be had. and I actually had a lot of fun for a couple of years and it was cause of great concern for everyone around me but I've always had a strong self-belief

that when the time came, I would knuckle down and that time came when I received a letter from a friend to tell me she was enrolling in her second degree and I was working for a local Melbourne lawyer and still going to nightclubs and I thought, okay, it's time to get myself together. And headed back to Perth, finished off my degree in a couple of years and went straight back to Melbourne.

Okay. So Melbourne's obviously been an attraction. I mean, I love Perth. I lived in Perth for a couple of years and it's just a great – in fact, I've got a brother down at Margaret's who has a great lifestyle. Oh, so is my brother. There you go. They probably know each other, Katrina.

Yeah, yeah. But a beautiful part of the world. But Melbourne was a magnet. What was the attraction to Melbourne? I love big cities. So, to be really honest, my greatest love is actually New York City. I love it for a hive of activity. I love it for the energy that I get just walking the streets of big cities.

I like seeing a really different mix of people. I like being surrounded by that. Perth felt, for me, I grew up in the western suburbs of Perth, and it doesn't have the multicultural nature that Melbourne offers. and that, for me, I really like. I think diverse backgrounds and diverse ways of thinking can really add so much value to whatever it is that you're doing, even pleasure of life.

So, for me, I love cities. And three weeks after I arrived in Melbourne, I met this guy over a flaming Lamborghini at Harley's Cocktail Lounge who happened to be at a mutual friend's 18th, and so that's my attraction to Melbourne. is I met a guy called Dave. And are you still with Dave? Dave and I were friends for many years.

And then at about 23, 24, after I came back from Perth, after finishing my degree, he had come back from London, we decided to cross the line. And we celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary about a week ago. Fantastic. Yeah, take my hats off to you there, Katrina. Awesome. So back in Melbourne, where to from there?

Take us on the journey from that point on. I then went through a hellish six-week recruitment interview process to get a graduate job at Mars Pet Care. And I remember them calling up me to tell me that I'd got the job and I burst into tears. And it wasn't because of that excitement over getting the job. It was just, thank God, that process was over. um it's why mars pet care tell me what was the attraction oh it was really interesting so when

i was at rmit when i did go um to class um one of my lecturers uh had always said to me i know you want to do marketing but the most important thing that you do is go out and spend a couple of years in sales first to understand how marketing fits in and how it all flows out to to the customer And so that's what I did. I went off and got a job as a sales rep in the graduate program with Mars Pet Care. So I was selling pal and whiskers through to all the supermarkets. And I loved it. I actually loved the pace.

I loved wheeling and dealing. As a kid, I always had thought that I was going to be a stockbroker. So the idea of kind of doing deals and selling stuff really spoke to me. And I really liked the pace. and over time I ran sales teams. So I worked with Arnott's Biscuits running their Melbourne sales team and then went back to Mars Pet Care again and ended up running accounts and before I left I was running Nicole's account.

Awesome, awesome. Okay, so you sort of did your time in sort of honing those sales skills. What was the next step? My next step, well, so I thought that I was a really big wig. I loved my corporate career and then I had a baby and things really kind of changed. I had a fairly unsettled baby as well and I found the transition into motherhood pretty tough because I was in control in my corporate world but at home it was like I didn't know what the hell I was doing and I was trying to juggle both.

I was the first person at childcare dropping off my child on opening and I was the last one into the office. I was the first one to leave the office and the last parent to pick up their child from childcare. And I'd go home and I'd get enough time to give her a bath and feed her and put her to bed and I just went, this is just not what I signed up for. This is not how I do things. I'm all in when I'm doing something. I'm really all in.

And so my husband said, do you want to take a year off and let's go back to Perth? And he had bought a boat and he had negotiated a five-day workload over four days at one of the hospitals over in Perth. And I went, yeah, let's do that. I'll go and kind of hang out with mum and bond with Lucy, our first child. And we loved it. We absolutely loved it. and we ended up spending 10 years there. And I made a decision soon after, you know, pausing my career

that I wanted to be around for the first five years of my kids' lives. That was important to me. I was really willing to forego career and income. I wanted to have really strong bonds with my kids and that's – I wanted to be present and that's how I wanted to do it. I had no judgment against anyone else's decisions. But as I said, when I'm in, I'm all in. And so I spent the next, I had another couple of kids over in Perth.

I've got three. And, you know, after having that kind of five-year break, I went, I'm ready to do something now. But there's no grocery industry in Perth. So I had to recreate myself. And I was playing cards with my Greek girlfriends on a Saturday night. We would get together every couple of months and you were only ever allowed to wear your trackies, your Ugg boots, and you brought your own bag of mixed lollies. And we would play and we'd play until about one in the morning and chat.

And they were all talking about these amazing deals that they were picking up. And, you know, me being that wheeler and dealer, I was like, what are you talking about? And they were all talking about these half-price massages and this that they were getting. And it was the introduction of the group buying site. So I don't know if you're familiar with Groupon and ScoopOn that came out. So I went, this is interesting, and I watched it for a couple of months, and I went, no one here is doing anything here for the family market. I'm going to do that.

And so I started announcing to people around Perth that, yep, I was going to launch this family deal site. And everyone, first of all, looked at me very strangely because I had no work history. I was a mum in the park to them. Um, and also they were, they all were sharing their bad experience with me in terms of purchasing through a group buying site, but I was fairly persistent and I didn't have the money and I thought, well, how am I going to make this happen?

Uh, so I started taking out investors and for coffee around St. George's Terrace and pitching my business idea. And I had a lot of very awkward coffees in the beginning. But within six months, I had secured four investors, local dads actually, in Perth. And I launched within six months. And I grew that business to – we ended up going national. And I grew that business to a community of 150,000 mums before selling that business in 2016. And that's where I really learned everything.

I did everything in the business. And I did it with someone else's money, so I was really cautious about how I spent it and invested it. And it meant that I really became resourceful in my marketing, and I really grew that business by making marketing partnerships. Yeah, let's dig in a bit there because I think this is going to be particularly pertinent to the times that we're about to move through. And what I love about your story, Katrina, is not only did you come up with a great idea at the right time, and anyone can do that, that's actually probably the easy part. The hard part is sort of transforming that idea into a real opportunity and the persistence that you've portrayed and the confidence. There's a self-confidence that goes with being able to sit down with people

and say, I know this is a good idea. Get on board with me. I need some cash or other support to help make this happen. Can you talk us through the approach that you took at that stage and how you managed to actually, one, maintain your belief in yourself because I'm sure there was a lot of rejection involved in that process early on, and how you've then also managed to motivate and inspire others to believe what you believe

to make that opportunity real? Yeah, such a good question, Bushy, because I draw this back to that resilience that Helen trained in me from an early age that rejection doesn't – I'm not put off by that. The other thing that Helen did for me in my childhood is she allowed me to have a dream come true. So I'll just give you a little bit of backstory because I think it will help give some context, is that at 14, I decided that New York had my name all over it. And I had a scrapbook and I used to fill it in, put in pictures,

and I'd take it to school every day and show my friends at lunch and recess and stuff. I would bore them silly about all these great places I was going to go to. But to make that happen, I needed money. And so I went and got myself a job at KFC and I got paid $3.28 an hour. And after about 18 months working, I had $1,600 and that was enough to get me my flight. And my auntie lived there, so I didn't have to pay accommodation. And so I announced at 16 that I was off. And mum said, I don't think so.

and I locked myself away in my room for what felt like was a week and after that, I got this little knock on the door and mum said, I'm coming too. And we had three glorious weeks in New York and it was everything that I could possibly have imagined in my scrapbook and more. And it's a place that absolutely lights me up and I go back every year now, even now,

and will eventually go back and live there. but to me, that gift of Helen allowing me to make something come true that seemed not really possible as a 14-year-old kid has really shaped my thinking. So I'm all about how do I make something happen, and once I had the idea in my head that I wanted to make Bubbler, my deal site, happen, I then went about having a look at the start-up scene in Perth,

and it was very male-oriented. It was all on St George's Terrace. The internet was still really quite new. Most of the investors were very familiar with the mining stocks and we were just on the start of the mining boom and that was their comfort zone. So talking them around to this kind of possible blue sky opportunity was actually quite difficult and I found hard.

But I found a way and I initially had some coffees and they didn't go so well. but I progressed on and I put a little bit of, you know, a couple of thousand dollars into hiring an IT consultant because I certainly didn't have the tech smarts and that was a local dad at the school and he absolutely loved what I was doing and he said, I want to come in as an investor

and he brought someone else in with him and that gave me the confidence to then go out and speak to a few other people about this opportunity knowing that I had a couple of investors already. So that kind of gave me my last kind of kick in terms of getting the money over the line and I learned a lot in terms of starting up a business, having that business partner, Colin Wee. He was terrific in terms of process and functionality even

of building an e-commerce site. So before we even appointed our web developer, he had, with, you know, asking me questions constantly, had produced a 120-page document on all the functionality that our website needed to have before it was even built. So the building was actually quite easy. But the big thing for me, Bushy, was I found that the startup scene was not very supportive of women in Perth at that time. And I know things have changed since. But at that time, we're talking 2011, 2012, there weren't many women like me out, you know, running an online business. You know, not that there are, you know, now, which is wonderful to see.

So I needed to network and I networked online with other women I saw doing things that like me. And I would reach out cold and say who I was and, you know, that I just would love the opportunity to chat with them and they quite enjoyed that. And it was over time of forming these relationships with all these other online communities who had mum communities as well that I worked out we'd all be much stronger if we worked together.

And we started running marketing partnerships and collaborating with each other in joint competitions initially and I knew that my real knack was in securing a really good prize sponsor and organising all the different groups, the different parties together. And so that enabled me to work with much bigger players in my industry because all they had to do was literally post it out on their websites and I'd take care of all the rest. and that allowed me to grow my subscribers, my member base,

really, really quickly. And so I was never spending more than $300 a month on advertising and, in fact, in my last 18 months of the business, I spent nothing. I just firmly worked on marketing partnerships to grow that business. Yeah, brilliant. We'll talk a little bit more about that in a minute, but I'm keen just to sort of drill deep a little bit into those challenges that you had.

Yeah. And I fully understand, you know, my good wife Sonia is brilliant at what she does and has suffered some of the same challenges along the road in terms of the sort of, to some degree in business particularly, the male-dominated outlook. And I'm sure you've probably suffered some of the, oh, yes, here's a housewife with a good idea. Yeah. Can you talk us through some of the things that you came up against

and how you actually manoeuvred your way through that? Because, again, it takes a lot of resilience to actually have the self-confidence and self-belief in yourself and what you're doing to be able to manoeuvre through all of that. Yeah, I did have a lot of hardships and a lot of challenges, Bushy. I found that there was an assumption held, just as you say, Oh, you're a mum at home doing – got a little business, a little hobby business. So there was a lot of assumptions made and that's something that I was already familiar with in becoming a mother anyway because, as I said, I've just found society had pigeoned me as, quote, just a mum and that I suddenly wasn't intelligent or had no other interests anymore. So I was familiar with that landscape.

But in the business world, I found, yeah, I probably – there's not a lot of interest. And, in fact, I would say that's even still now. Trying to get the media interested in a story about mums is absolutely impossible. There is a real lack of interest about mothers, and that's what I talk about with them being really undervalued. Why is that? I'm struggling to understand, given that mums are the backbone of the family and as you say in your own communiques, 68% of them on average are the CFOs in the family, so they're making the dollar decisions. What isn't it that people aren't getting about how important they are as an economic force in our community? Yeah, look, I think that there's a lot at play.

You're right, mothers are, we're responsible for 80% of spending. In Australia, we control $132 billion of spending in this country every year, but certainly not given the thanks, I would say, for being responsible for those kind of spends. I think mothers definitely have fed back to me in my research that they feel that a lot of businesses and brands make them feel as if they're stupid. And there are particular industries, I think,

that do that more so than others. But I don't think that there is enough value placed on the role of being a parent. It's very sad, isn't it? You know, I'm not just talking about mothers here. A stay-at-home dad, Dave, my husband, ended up spending six months at home and he found it a really difficult experience as well.

He wasn't accepted by my mother's group and he was really very, very isolated and people were really kind of shocked as to why he would give up a very lucrative private role in healthcare to stay at home with a child. It's a bit of a sad indictment on our community, I think, when the absolutely formative future of the next generation is going to be solely built around the connection,

the learning and the direction they get at home. So it's an absolutely fundamental foundational piece of the whole pie, don't you think? Absolutely. I think what really needs the first start of change that needs to happen is that we need to encourage men to take time off for parental leave. I think that needs to be really encouraged by organizations to make that okay. A lot of organizations will have the policy in place, but it's frowned upon to do. So the more and more advocates of dads that we can hear from, I think, will really, really assist in solving some of these issues.

But, yeah, for me, I found there was a lot of, oh, yeah, your mum got a little hobby business or a side hustle, you know, as your escapism from the kids. um having said that i had some wonderful male mentors uh there was one in wa uh who is very big in the startup scene and uh he has always been a sounding board that i can go to uh with problems or challenges um and and uh he he has always uh gone out of his way to to help me um So I will say throughout kind of the challenges that I faced, I'm really big about just making a little bit of progress. If you can make a little bit of progress, I know sometimes it's one step forward, two back,

but if you keep kind of moving forward, you'll get there in the end. You know, I'm someone who's laser focused on the outcome that I want to get. there are disappointments without question without question and i've i've cried on my husband's shoulder uh many a times with bubbler and i worked to the bejesus as well i'd work till you know two or three in the morning for for months on end um trying to just do everything to keep costs down and uh i learned i learned from that first business a lot of valuable lessons that I need to have a really solid team both at home and actually work colleagues because I work in isolation it's really important that I've got really good people around me and

that I surround myself with very positive people I think that if you're coming up against roadblocks all the time and struggles within your business you need to make sure that there's no naysayers in your life that are going to bring you down yeah that's a brilliant advice so that any other lessons apart from those very two important ones that have come out of that and i mentioned that because we're all about to go through massive periods of change and that change that you're talking about in terms of advocating dads is there's no better time now than when we're all in in lockdown and we're operating from home to actually shift some of those inbuilt ingrained habits and attitudes so I'm excited about the opportunity to break through some of that sort

of built-in prejudice and bias that's probably affected our society for way too long are there any other key lessons you've taken away that the listeners can perhaps pick up on that are going to be useful to them moving forward? Yeah, look, I would keep saying invest in your network. Like for me, I wouldn't have had any success. I wouldn't have been able to continue with that business for five years unless I really invested in in my network um and meeting people so that when i hit roadblocks there were people that i could reach out to um to help solve them or um to be an ear of an ear about you know what

would you do here um i was pretty good at asking questions early on and and i look back at it and I sometimes think, oh, my God, the gall of me. Did I actually call so-and-so and ask them that? And they spent an hour on the phone with me? Oh, my God. But in those early days, I don't know what it was. It was some brash inner belief in what I was doing and such big fear of failure that really pushed me along.

For me, going into business was the ultimate test of all my skills and all my different experience, and I was desperate for it to go okay. Well, you mentioned that fear of failure, which sort of resonates with me because it's something that has driven me a lot over the years for stuff that I've tackled. and I just won't let that happen so you just do what it takes to make it happen. Interesting that that's sort of a quality that you bring to the table but again I sense that Helen's been fairly instrumental in sort of inculcating those qualities in you. Something I just want to sort of pick up on in terms of the way you visualise the end result

because you talked about a scrapbook in New York when you were in your teens. I'm a very visual person, so if I've got a goal, then I can see it and it's in front of me and it then becomes like a drip on a rock on the subconscious that just draws me to it. Has that sort of visual approach been an ongoing part of how you make things happen? Yeah, I'm a planner, Bushy.

I like to know where I'm heading, so I need to know what's on the next horizon and I'm a long-term planner as well. So my husband is not, so it's really, he likes being spontaneous, et cetera, which is really interesting in terms of, you know, a partnership. But I've got him on the page. So we're very, very much working towards when our 12-year-old finishes high school that Dave and I will go and spend a year or two in New York.

um that's something that for me just i i haven't yet lived and worked there um and it's such a burning desire to to do um i know that i can't do it long term because my husband can't be away from the kids for for too long and i've taken the kids to new york and only one out of three was interested in the place that um that yeah we'll do a year or two there and that's very much what we're working towards and that's how I'm structuring my business as well so my business is completely being geared to me being able to be anywhere love it so locationally independent basically to drive the income let's let's put some shape around that because I'd love to ask people this question uh because it sounds as a long-term planner you you'll have a pretty good

vision of what your dream lifestyle looks like so I'd love you to to put some shape and color around that for us and then yeah so let's start there and then i'll dig in a bit deeper okay so um yeah no i've thought about this a lot my you know i'm thinking about my ideal lifestyle all the time um so definitely regular trips to new york um i as i said i find it fills up my cup it makes me incredibly creative i i am very creative in my thinking after um making sure that I've done 15,000 to 20,000 steps on the pavement on Manhattan Island. I'm very, very satisfied and happy. So definitely regular trips to New York fits in and I do that now.

I've been doing that for the last five years. I go over for two weeks and speak at the world's leading conference on marketing to moms and I network with my US colleagues there so I'm building my network as well and I spend time with my auntie who lives a really great life there with her American partner and spend time in jazz clubs. So New York features very, very prominently. For me, there's also a very strong travel element with my family.

I'm really, really strong. Everything that I do is built around my kids and supporting them. and we love discovering new places together. So traveling for us is great and we did a month in the U.S. in 2000 and it was about two or three years ago, 2018, and we just loved it. So we were all set to do a month in Europe, in northern Italy, Barcelona and Paris before the world turned upside down and we will get that done.

but it just may not be this June. Yeah, and I understand. Brilliant. So with that sort of – and to a fair degree you're living that lifestyle now but I guess what I've noticed in sort of reviewing sustainable success over time is that I see a lot of people invest in their work, their career or their business and there's a focus on income. But those that achieve long-term financial freedom also invest

in growth assets that help to replace that active work over time. Outside of your business, Katrina, what growth assets do you or will you be investing in to sustain that lifestyle you're talking about? Great question, Bushy. It gets a lot of airtime at my place at the moment. At the moment, we're heavily investing in our kids' education as our growth assets in terms of exposing them to travel.

We really want to create some memories whilst they're still with us at home and also their education. So we invest really heavily in that. Once that kind of frees up, we'll definitely be looking at some property developing. Whilst I had that career break over in Perth, we flipped a couple of homes and I actually ended up flipping a home for somebody else and really loved it and I'm obsessed with Million Dollar Listings New York

and Million Dollar Listings LA. So when I was there last year, I actually dropped in a copy of my new book to each of the real estate agents in the show. Love it. Yeah, but no, we're likely to then look at property. It's an area that both my husband and I are familiar in and feel pretty comfortable doing. Yeah, and that's awesome.

So while we're sort of talking around that piece, everyone's got a slightly different definition of what they describe as long-term sustainable success. What does it mean to you and what's the secret to it, do you think? Long-term sustainable success. I think it's definitely about doing something that you love. So, without question, I make sure that I'm investing my time in doing activities that I really love. So, I want to change the way we see mothers and I want to enable entrepreneurs to create amazing collaborative partnerships.

That's something else. So following things that I really love is probably one of the big things, I think, in terms of creating a sustainable business. What else? Yeah, I'd probably say it's really about just following your passion. You've got to be – because work doesn't so much feel like work to me. I mean, there are certain elements of it that do, but there's a really strong part of me that would be,

even if I didn't need to work financially, I would still actively choose to because there are things that I want to leave as part of my legacy. Yeah. Yeah, and what is that legacy as you see it at the moment? I want to shape how brands see mothers. Like I actually see them as an enormous financial opportunity for businesses for a start. um so that to me is really what i'm what i'm pretty big on yeah and i i want to be known as a

i mean i walk a different path i know that i do things differently i'm the only one in australia that specializes in the mum market uh and um i want to be a pioneer of of that yeah well you're already you're already that i would say katrina right here right now so uh and the work that you and continue to do is going to make a massive dent in the recognition of just how important mums are to not only the family but the economy at large. So much admiration and respect from myself in that regard. But, hey, as an allied exercise to that, and you've mentioned Dave a few times and you've mentioned that there's a bit of a yin and a yang in relation

to you're the long-term planner, he's enjoyed today and worried about tomorrow some other time which and you just described myself and my good wife Sonia I'm the long-term planner she's a liver today and and the balance between those is a beautiful thing how important has Dave been to that sense of resilience and self-belief that's enabled you to go from the seat of an idea to being the leader in the mum's marketing space look we were only talking about this yesterday on our walk so after he finishes work we transition for the day we go for a walk out in nature and we just you know talk about whatever but I was only saying yesterday it's really hard to juggle two careers I think it's a real it's a real

struggle for a lot of families out there. It's difficult for both to be running at the same speed at the same time. So, a few years ago, my husband was doing his exec MBA and still working full-time in the hospital system and he had to find an extra 24 hours a week to get through his course and he's a really high achiever and so he would only accept finishing with distinction so he put obviously a lot of energy into it so it meant that I you know kind of had to pick up pick up the slack for a while and and hang back a while and and that goes in ebbs and flows you know I'm in a stage of growth so I will push I will push up right now and he will be more in the in that supportive role. But I think that that's been really important is in terms of having that

communication in terms of who's going to have a push in their career now and who's going to take that more supportive role. But we're both really hands-on. Our kids are super active with sport and when we're not working, we are in the car between basketball stadiums, football grounds, you know, that's what we do. The taxi driver on the weekend and most nights of the week. I have one key rule is that the kids aren't allowed to sit on their phones in the car because I said I don't want to be treated like an Uber driver. I love it. Hey, great sort of segue in that sort of balance between yourself and Dave

in relation to the importance of successful partnerships. Because partnerships is, as you've already said a number of times, is a massive part of what's helped you to get you where you are today. and I know that they are going to be absolutely critical, especially in the times that are unfolding now where we're pretty much throwing away the rule book and starting again to a fairly large degree, which I think is, in the title of your book,

the mother of all opportunities that's presented to us. For those that are listening today that are about to embrace this brave new world, how would you advise them to really embrace partnerships and what are some of the key things they need to keep in mind in really building that network and building those partnerships to help themselves but also to help others to achieve their goals? That is a great question, Bushy.

For me, I see that now is the time to be supportive and show your human side. This is the opportunity that as marketers, as business owners, as professionals that we can show that we're human, you know, we're from a human organisation. Consumers will remember those brands that did the right thing now. They have a long memory for those that don't do the right thing right now. so it's a really tricky time in terms of selling some products and I think that it's important

that people are really mindful of that so invest in in your network invest in really being supportive of people I'm making a point of calling all my clients I'm calling them far more regularly than I normally would just to check in just to check on their mindsets I'm calling all my former clients, you know, just checking in how things are going for you. That's what they want to hear. They want to hear that they're being supportive. But in terms of the short-term stuff, I think that there are three critical things that anyone should be looking at right now. And that is, first up, manage your mindset.

The decisions that you make over the coming weeks are really going to have enormous impact on your business, on your organization. for months and possibly years to come. So you need to make sure that you are in a really good headspace. And so, you know, whatever you have to do, stop watching the news, get out into nature, surround yourself such that you're only speaking with very kind of positive people. You need to be managing your headspace first and foremost.

And then I think it's a matter of really understanding the budget, the money, so that you can make really informed decisions. I've had a number of, you know, meetings and phone calls with my accountant already so that the decisions that I make are going to be financially responsible decisions and I understand what my boundaries are, my parameters are. But then it's all about marketing. This is not the time to be going dark. This is the time to, you know, really, I guess, review your marketing calendar

and make some changes, you know, obviously delay potentially new product launches and timings and messaging, be really careful about messaging. I think that the businesses that will be successful now are those that can react with speed and those that demonstrate really strong empathy and that was something that was echoed in a great article in Forbes magazine recently by a colleague of mine,

a friend called Jeff Fromm, and he says, you know, the businesses that will win are going to be those that show empathy and speed, and that's really what it's about, I think. Absolutely brilliantly summed up there, Katrina. That was a piece of gold. Thank you. I think you've sort of hit all of the absolute key aspects there

and the important things to be focusing on because in a world of noise and I guess we're buried in the 24-7 reality show that is the pandemic at the moment and most of that's negative and soul-destroying, to focus on what you just mentioned there in relation to mindset, controlling what you listen to, understanding your cash flow and then being very careful about your messaging. Yeah. I mean, it's what I love, the laser-like focus that you've brought to that.

There's nothing actually difficult in any of that, but we need to make the choice to focus on those things rather than be distracted on the thousand other things that are getting thrown at us. I agree. It's a really active choice, Bushy. And when I'm talking about mindset, I'm also not just talking about your own mindset. It's like if you're in an organization, it's about the mindset of your employees. what are you doing to manage their you know they're out making decisions for your business

or within your organization how are you managing all your employees mindsets like what are you doing to help them with their emotional well-being in this new world that's super important but also think about the mindset of your clients and your customers the world has changed and their pain points have changed the problems that you solve are now could be quite different and you're going to need to adapt so it's really important that you look at mindset from three different angles you know as i said yourself the employees and your customers yeah brilliant that's just such a good and sage advice katrina and very timely in the context of of what we're now needing to tackle as the change comes through.

Okay, I'd sort of like to switch into what I like to refer to as the ambush or the bushfire lightning round, if I may, and it's just five quick questions that all the listeners like to hear your wisdom on. And the first of those is what's your favourite quote and why? Oh, look, there's a couple that I go by. I kind of come in waves with my quotes. One of the ones that I love is, if opportunity doesn't knock, build a door.

And what I mean by that is, like, look for other ways around it, you know, get creative with your problem solving. And another one that I heard recently that really resonated with me, and I think it was Daniel Priestley, I hope I'm right with that, he said, slow down to speed up. And I loved that because that's about, you know, that perspective about getting your mindset right and then you can speed forward but hey just take a minute catch your breath absorb everything that's happened get yourself in a good space okay now let's go forward so i like that one as well love it love it uh next one revolves around the the book subject and

apart from your awesome books um what's the top book that you'd recommend people read and why oh um there is one by dr gay hendrix and the big leap okay and i love this book it's a personal development book but i read it from a business perspective and it's all about getting out of your own way and your self-limiting beliefs that uh that keep you small i love that and again very timely one i haven't actually uh read that one it was by dr gay but uh dr gay hendrix um yeah he's a um a psych over in the u.s and uh yeah he read he wrote a book the big leap i think he probably wrote about a decade ago but i'll pull it out every kind of 18 months and re-have a look through um and skip through it again but it's a great one particularly for women i find um particularly

after they become mothers they start to put everyone else's needs before their own and they start to think small and it really kind of kind of breaks through that and helps them uh look at look at their life through a different a different way love it again very timely and it's one that i'm an absolute avid and ravenous reader so i'm going to add that to the kindle list as soon as i get off the call here katrina and this one's a little bit left field but a lot of our listeners believe they pay too much tax and we're coming into an interesting environment around that in the short term.

But what's the top legal thing that you've done to minimise the tax that you pay? When I was in my 20s, I found the best accountant and I've been with him for 25 years. Yeah, that's absolutely the best advice you could possibly get. It's not my specialty area. Go and hire an expert.

Totally, 100%. that our accountant is almost a business partner for us. They're absolutely that pivotal to what we're doing, that they can make or break a situation and set things up in a way that we don't even know. It's the old don't know what you don't know routine, so give it to someone who can really optimise and protect and minimise the risk of your position

as well as optimise how much money you're putting in your pocket. Brina Voss, on the personal front, I'm juggling these around a little bit, what's a personal habit that you believe contributes most to your success so far? One of the things that I've found has worked really well for me is making sure that I'm getting out into nature very regularly. And I know that that sounds so weird from someone who says how much she loves inner city and concrete and big cities, but I love nothing more than taking a walk out in nature for one hour a day. That's where I do all my creative problem solving. It's where I let my mind dream up really interesting new things.

So yeah, I love getting out into nature and I think that that contributes a lot to my success overall. It certainly makes me a nicer person, let's just say that much. Is that something you do alone or you do with Dave or a bit of both? So Monday to Wednesday, in fact, look, Monday to Wednesday and always on a weekend, always with Dave. Like we really enjoy, that's our time. That's where we do a lot of our dreaming time and our forward thinking.

We plan holidays then. but I'm very comfortable doing it by myself. Sometimes I like to – I'm really close to amazing parklands and naturelands, so I love going and walking out there. Sometimes I'll put on an audible book, but a lot of the times I've got so much bird life, I just love listening to the kookaburras. Yeah, the kookaburras are our favourite. We've got two bases, a country base in South Australia

and a base on the Mornington Peninsula down at Balnaring. Oh, really? Yeah. The lawyer, so the lawyer I worked for when I was just dropped out of uni is the local lawyer in Balnaring. There you go. Well, we're just out of town. They're in Merricks.

Okay. Well, we're pretty close. We're on some, this is where I'm speaking to you from at the moment, and I wake up in the morning to the sound of the Kookaburra Chorus. There is just nothing better, is there? I just, that laughter, that sort of, it's very infectious. Yeah, can't put a value on it. I'm on a big bush block just out of Melbourne,

which again is really weird for someone who loves the inner city. And I've been in the inner city until 18 months ago, but part of that move out was affording the kids education. and I've got a big bush block with some protected gum trees in my backyard and we've got a family of kookaburras that live out there. So I can go and sit outside and the little family come out in the evening around 8 o'clock and have a bit of a yak. Love it, love it.

Hey, last one of the ambush series, what's both the worst and the best piece of investment advice that you've received so far? best piece of advice i got was actually from our uh our friend our joint friend our mutual friend andrew griffiths who said have diverse and multiple income streams so that's been awesome i've done that and i'm now protected um uh in our current climate given that all the speaking work has dried up i've got other streams um the worst piece of advice i used to invest quite a bit on the, oh, I used to invest money on the stock market. So I once had a really bad

piece of advice on a particular stock and lost a bit of cash and that hurt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It can be a rollercoaster ride, the equities market. There's no question about it. Okay. Last question then, and this is a very apt question given the times that we're in. If I was to give you a microphone that spoke to every one of the 7.7 billion people in the world and I gave you one minute to talk, what would you say? Okay. Oh, geez. I think what I would say is we are in amazing times right now and for a lot of people, they're

feeling pretty unsure, they're feeling nervous and worried and fearful and I want to really help you flip that and look for where are the opportunities how can I adapt and look at this problem differently so that I can have a direct influence on that outcome I believe that there are opportunities everywhere yeah it's absolutely brilliantly said and 100% agree there's there is no better time than times of change if we can sort of get past the disruption and a lot of people i think mistake it mistaken disruption for doom and gloom and disruption is the mother of all opportunity and you mentioned very early in the piece your mother helping you get comfortable with being uncomfortable we're right here right now so very sage advice and the magic happens

the magic i've learned time and time again that the magic happens when we're out of our comfort zone. And right now, we are all well out of our comfort zones. And I don't deny that for many industries, this is really, really tough. But amongst this difficulty will present enormous opportunity. And it's really about thinking about your skill set. And as I said, getting into the mindsets of consumers out there and understanding what it is that they need delivered right now. yeah brilliantly said and a great summing up thank you katrina for those that uh like myself who are always energized and inspired by listening to you and they want to do some more with you what's the best way for them to get in touch oh look i'd love uh an email would be terrific so

we could organize a call i'm katrina with a k at marketing to mums with an s on the end dot com dot au um or otherwise i've got a couple of websites which is marketing to mums dot com dot au and katrina mccarter dot com and i'd love to talk to uh to your community that would be awesome and anything next new and exciting that that you're doing that you'd like to share at this minute well at the moment i've had a number of my clients are in temporary closure um because they're running big, they might be big child activity centres. So what I'm really doing is working with them on their mindset, getting them into a really productive frame of mind and we are actively learning more about their customer base right now. We're identifying the

most profitable segment of the mum market and we're rebuilding their marketing strategies ready for reopening. So to me, really, we've never had this opportunity, this stop in time where businesses that are closed are able to find out and dig deep about their customer. Love it. Absolutely love it. As you mentioned earlier on, that time to slow down before you speed up, there's no a better opportunity to really understand who you're helping

and how you need to help them and message that in a way that's really connecting. So Katrina, it's been an absolute pleasure. I really enjoyed the conversation. We'll look forward to getting you back at some stage to expand further on some of the subjects. I feel like we've only just scratched the surface, but thank you again and I look forward to talking to you soon.

Oh, thanks so much, Bushy. It was a lot of fun. It's been awesome. Thanks, Katrina. well freedom fighters how good was that you get a summary of all this investment gold in the show notes just email me on hello at khgroup.com.au that's h-e-l-l-o at khgroup.com.au or check us out at www.bussymartin.com.au forward slash get invested i look forward to joining you next week for another episode of the Get Invested podcast.

So thanks for listening. And as always, dream as if you live forever and live as if you die tomorrow.