Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Real Estate Foresight, part 2 - How to thrive in 2025

Starting point is 00:00:00 Welcome to Get Invested on the Property Hub podcast channel, the leading weekly show for Australians who want to learn how to unlock their full self, health and wealth potential. I'm your host, Bushy Martin, and each week I go deep with the best investors, experts, leaders and founders to find out what it takes to break free from the grind, discover freedom and to live by design. Subscribe now and join me and get invested in the life that you really want. Let's get started. Hi Friday Fighters. What can we expect with property in the year ahead? How can you thrive in 2025? What do you need to look out for and what do you need to consider?

Starting point is 00:00:41 What do you need to avoid? What can you actually take advantage of? What are the trips and traps? What's changed? What's likely to change? And what won't change with property conditions in the future and how will this influence what you do where when how and with who in property in the year ahead how can you swim against the tide and continue to find outperforming property opportunities as things return to normal and property conditions continue to tighten in many areas what's going to happen with interest rates and elections and what impacts if any will all this have these are all questions we're going to answer in part two of the great chat i'd recently had with highly respected quantity surveyor and tax depreciation expert, Mike Mortlock from MCG on his popular Give for

Starting point is 00:01:28 Growth podcast, where we reveal what lies ahead as you plan your next property move. So you're going to absolutely love this open and entertaining session. And before we get into it, if you're looking to take your property investment to the next level this year, in order to fast track your version of financial freedom, whether you're new to the game or an experienced investor, feel free to explore your why, what, and how of successful property by tapping into our recently released Freedom Formula program that reveals all of the fundamental property success principles that helped me and thousands of other investors to achieve their lifestyle goals. And you can digest them anytime, anywhere at your leisure by clicking the link in

Starting point is 00:02:08 the show notes. And in just 60 to 90 minutes, I share all of the critical property gold in bite-sized chunks from my award-winning book, The Freedom Formula. And the first module is absolutely free before you decide whether to invest a further $99 in the program. It has the potential to help you create hundreds of thousands of dollars in property wealth. So do yourself a favor by clicking the show note links now, and that'll take you to bushimartin.com.au forward slash Freedom Formula course, and I'll see you there. And if you'd like to confidentially delve deeper into your specific property needs, challenges, blockages, or unanswered questions, or you'd like to get clear on what you need to

Starting point is 00:02:54 be doing next in property, feel free to book in with me personally for a dedicated one-on-one solution session by clicking the link in the show notes where you'll have my complete undivided attention to tap into my four decades of property finance and strategy expertise to help you solve any and all of your property challenges for a full 60 minutes. In the meantime, if you want to put yourself ahead of the pack by learning what's likely to happen with property across the country in the year ahead, so that you can continue to thrive in 2025, sit back and get invested in the concluding part of my great conversation with the one and only Michael Mockrock. Bushy Martin, thanks for joining me back for episode two of our two-part series, which was

Starting point is 00:03:38 2024 the year that was and now the big one the one that everyone wants to know that that that crystal ball of where should i buy in 2025 bushy where's gonna outperform perth where's the next perth oh mate uh i'm lining up here with clickbait headlines that are gonna pinpoint almost to the address where people should be buying mate people are gonna be people are gonna be very disappointed i think if that is the title for this show and of course if you didn't listen to the first one I encourage you to go back to that but we sort of talked about people being drunk on the sugar hit of the hot spot and really to be successful in property investing yeah it's great to time the market but you do need to be in the market for a period of time so if a market can

Starting point is 00:04:22 grow 25% a year for two years it might not necessarily outperform a much more modest market that is a perennial performer and I think that's where people are getting a little bit wrong right yeah i do i think there's way too much focus on what may change and not enough focus on what is unlikely to change and i think if you look at successful investors in any asset class they're the ones who focus on the fundamentals and ignore the noise and there's one thing that we have seen a ramp up in exponential growth in in the last couple of years it's the noise because not only we spoke about in the last episode not only are the mainstream media focusing on it because one they they don't have much else to talk about two they've got stakes in realestate.com and

Starting point is 00:05:13 domain so they've got a pretty good reason to be talking it up uh so we add that into the exercise and and suddenly we're in a position where the noise keeps us scared and any form of media likes to scare us because that's our most fundamental instinct and and if we hear fear that we're going to focus on it uh so that works that's all that sells advertising space on newspapers and tv channels uh but on a similar basis at the other end of the extreme we as we touched on last episode as well we've got an increasing number of you know instant overnight self-professed experts in the property sphere uh that everyone everyone with a microphone has got a podcast these days like uh you and i have been doing for a long time i was gonna say present company accepted

Starting point is 00:05:59 yeah but you and i've been doing it for years there's they're popping up every week uh almost and uh great great delivery great production uh the socials to promote it fantastic i take my to them they're a world ahead of me in that regard but we need to get back to what the fundamentals of property are and have a look at what that is doing and where that's heading and make decisions around that and then the other layers of the onion that will they're almost like volumes which is some of the other influences that the media keeps talking about yes you need to take them into consideration but the old philosophy of expecting the worst and planning for the worst and then expecting the best is is the best way to approach property in in any

Starting point is 00:06:49 environment so so i guess that is a bit of a backdrop but should we talk about some of the But before I reinforce what some of those unchangeables are, should we talk about some of the things that may change? Yeah, what might change? And, of course, being a finance guru, I'm very interested on the big RBA elephant in the room as well. But what have you zeroed in on? Well, let's start there.

Starting point is 00:07:15 Bring that one up. I mean, everyone's waiting with bated breath for when rates are going to go down. No question about it. And if we had this conversation six weeks ago, I probably would have answered it differently to what I'm going to now, because I would have anticipated, given where things are at, that we would start to see rate reductions early in the new year, and then probably get a progression of reductions of around about a percent over 12 to 18 months, where I would have positioned it.

Starting point is 00:07:47 I'm not so confident around that now, Mike, and I need to underline here that I'm not an economist either. So I'm just a property player who spends a lot of time looking at the data and reading between the lines. So you need to take my comments with a pinch of salt in that context. But I think the change that I'm now seeing and what's driving us to some degree is that everyone focuses on inflation. And sure, inflation is a thing that is impacting on rate decisions from the RBA. What is tend to being ignored, I think, and governments are finding this out right around the globe,

Starting point is 00:08:31 is that while inflation may be coming down, so the rate of inflation is less, we're still talking about growth in prices. Yep. And prices have gone up 40-odd percent. So if we're adding 40% to everything, that's not going down the inflation rate might be coming down but it's still growing might be less but the the pressure that's putting on families generally again the silent majority

Starting point is 00:08:59 who are sucking it up really and given some of the the savings they may have put away and the equity growth i've enjoyed in their homes post-covid has allowed them to to get to this point but i think we're pretty close to the edge in terms of the sentiment that's attached to that And that sentiment is going to have two impacts, two big impacts, because we're coming into an election year in 2025. It's going to happen before September at some point in time. Whether politicians like it or not and whether it's true or not, the performance of what hits our hip pocket is generally directed straight back to the government of the day. Yes. And just about every incumbent in government around the globe that's had an election over the last 12 months has been overturned.

Starting point is 00:09:50 Regardless of policy, it's all about hip-hopper. So we've just seen that happen in the U.S. where the, you know, the tangerine tornado has come back into the chair. And God knows what havoc that's going to create. But when you see someone that is potentially as unlikable as that particular individual but still manages to charge in, that's telling me that the general populace has had it up to the neck with the political speak, had it up to the neck with the fact that the cost of everything has gone up. And their hope is that maybe they're choosing between two evils, that the one they put in may actually improve the position as far as their discretionary spend and the cost of living is concerned. So I think the cost of living exercise, while that focus is all narrowed down to interest rates, sorry, inflation is a key, it's what's behind that that people need to be thinking about. and then flowing through that into the interest rate environment again, I think we're likely to be high for longer

Starting point is 00:10:58 and then there won't be as many rate drops. Why do I say that? Global parity really is, I think, what's going to drive it because what's likely to happen if, and big ifs here, if Trump manages to actually enact his political promises, then that's going to be very inflationary for the U.S. Why? Why is that going to be the case? They're talking up to 60% import tax on China,

Starting point is 00:11:33 up to 20-odd percent import tax on most other countries. I think this week I just heard that they've started the open gambit is 20% in China and 10% elsewhere, particularly Mexico and Canada. Why does that matter? people are probably saying, what the hell are you talking about the US Bushy, we're talking about Australian property, well

Starting point is 00:11:55 the ripple effect does flow through and the US economy is by far the biggest economy in the world if the cost of goods into America increases, inflation will increase they're likely to increase their rates that's the simple

Starting point is 00:12:12 mass and to make Australia competitive to continue to get people to invest in Australia, our rates have to be at or near where they are so if we're too far below that's a disincentive for anyone to put their money into australia australia will suffer a result but there's a flip side to that as well because if we're adding cost to the tariffs from from uh china where over a third of our exports go you know in an economy in china that's already been struggling a bit it's pretty soft over there yeah then the direct flow back into australia is reduced need for resources

Starting point is 00:12:51 and that's going to flow through into an impact i believe in western australia in particular and regional queensland as a result where most of the resource uh mining and production actually occurs i think i mean i've rambled a bit there mike no no you tied a nice a nice neat bow in and it just makes me think about do you remember the supply the surprise surplus we had in the budget I mean that that really came down to I think two things one is that unemployment was lower than we expected so less welfare more wage earners more tax revenue the other one was that the the prices that we had predicted for you know thermal and coking coal was probably about half of what was forecast and that leads me to think about places like wa and of course the economy itself

Starting point is 00:13:45 which you know there's people saying that we're in a per capita recession um we are actually perhaps not at the peak of of things like coal and iron ore but we're strong we're solid right there's probably more move to go more room to go down than up yes spot on and i think that So you've touched on another really good point there, I think, and that is while all the talk in the media is about inflation and interest rates and employment, I mean, the employment numbers are really strong, what's missing and what's affecting each and every one of us is wage growth.

Starting point is 00:14:23 So everything's gone up except our wages. So we're spending a hell of a lot more to get a lot less, and then governments are wondering why they're getting overturned. I think Albo and the team would be, if they're not already, they should be extremely nervous about what we're coming into in this election year because the opposition doesn't need to be that good to get in because people are just right, well, it can't get any worse than this. Let's have a crack at the other side. Well, Peter Dutton, I don't think as an individual, has been less coveted than any other Liberal leader in recent history. I don't know what about his expressionless face just doesn't connect with people, but it's not kind of working.

Starting point is 00:15:05 But it just kind of makes me think when Albo says, I've never lost an opinion poll and he lost one recently, then maybe if he's losing to Dutton, that's an indication that it's not looking real good. Well, you're exactly right, Matt. It's less about Dutton and more about the incumbent. I think that's what we've seen in America. Yes.

Starting point is 00:15:26 If you look at the character they use of the winner of the election in the US, who can change direction in 180 degrees in the space of a sentence and still not be questioned about it, then on a very watered down exercise here in Australia, then the personality of the opposition I don't think is going to matter too much, sadly. I remember when Clinton was impeached, and I don't know why I started fostering these values, but I assumed that when you get impeached, you're not the president anymore. But we've got a president that was impeached three times and is a convicted felon, the first one in history. What an auspicious honour that is. Don't start me, Mike. We better move on. We better move on. What else is going to change? Talk to us about things like listings, immigration. What are all the levers that you're looking at that are likely

Starting point is 00:16:23 to be influential in 2025? Yeah, so again, if we take that layers on an onion analogy, the things I always focus on because I think you can create your own economy and property because all you need to do is solve someone else's property problem and you're going to make money. that's that's as simple as it gets so if you this is where i say annoyed annoy some of the top level noise because if you focus on those three eyes that we spoke about in the first episode new

Starting point is 00:16:52 infrastructure new industry strong and growing incomes and then you and and that gets below medium levels i one of my pet hates is the focus on aggregated information over state levels and using median prices as the guide because you and I know that there's a whole world of truth that sits in below that. Yes. But what it does do is influence sentiment, which can sort of corral the stampeding herd. Yes.

Starting point is 00:17:22 Which is what we've seen in WA and Adelaide. But beyond those base fundamentals of future growth, I think the things that will influence the edges, and it will be locationally variable as a consequence of that are listing levels. So I think what's tended to logjam the situation in 2024 is the fact that capacity constraints meant that people, there was probably a lot more people that wanted to sell

Starting point is 00:17:51 but couldn't sell because they couldn't buy the next place. Yeah. Yeah. Too much heat became that sort of self-fulfilling prophecy because it's like, well, we don't want to buy in this rapidly accelerating market because, I mean, we're selling and we're missing out on that. And if we can't, you know, grab hold of something,

Starting point is 00:18:10 then it's just going to gallop away on us. Well, and adding to that as well, Mike, the borrowing capacity, because borrowing capacity has dropped very substantially, they've got a loan on their existing home, but when they sell that and they front up to get a loan for the new one that's at or above what they've just spent, they can't get it. Yeah. And the smart ones are talking to their broker or bank before they put the for sale sign up and go, holy hell, I'm stuck.

Starting point is 00:18:36 I couldn't move if I wanted to, unless I'm going to accept something a lot less than what I've got. So you don't do it. So I think that's had an influence that those borrowing capacity restrictions have had an impact at that level as well in terms of people just not wanting to be able to release their properties if they can. So I think, but I think there's going to be a shift in that. There will be a lot more people that have to. And we're already seeing with banks that they're actually loosening. They're not making any noise about this, but they're loosening the threads in relation to borrowing policy,

Starting point is 00:19:07 which is making it a bit easier because banks are businesses as well. And if they're not writing enough lines, they're not giving a big enough return to their shareholders. So we're starting to see that loosen a little bit. When those rate reductions come in, and they will come in, but just not to the level that probably people have been expecting and it may be taking a little bit longer for that to happen, then I think we're going to see more listing supply come in,

Starting point is 00:19:31 which will tend to soften price growth across the board. And unless areas have those three eyes happening with them, then they're likely to go slightly back and then sideways for an extended period of time, I think. That would be my read of the capacity constraints that are caused by the interest rate piece. The immigration piece, well, that's a two-edged sword as well. So if we look at the demand and supply side, yes, the migration levels are coming down, but I'm a big believer that you don't shrink to grow, Mike.

Starting point is 00:20:06 And we've got this massive bell curve of baby boomers coming out of the workforce that are going to need to be supported by other taxpayers to fund their health bills as they get older and sicker. sticker uh if we don't have a very strong healthy migration intake with the right skills i think the issue with migration has been that we're concentrating them all in one place and we haven't been fussy enough about the skills that we're attracting to make that happen so i think there needs to be a diversified diversification policy around where migrants can land yeah because they don't have much choice the way it's currently set up when you dig into the details of that right If they were disseminated across the board so that we weren't causing these rental spikes, particularly in Melbourne and Sydney, but it was more across the board, that would alleviate some of the issues around that. But while the numbers are, I think they're getting back to 250-odd thousand a year over the next couple of years.

Starting point is 00:21:09 It's a bit more than that this year. But we've had a big catch-up. Remember, we closed the borders there for a couple of years. Yes, yeah. So we've needed that to occur. So I'm not one of those that's supportive of eliminating migration. I think that would be a disaster move. But there's going to be continued demand on that side.

Starting point is 00:21:30 On the supply side of the equation, as we touched on briefly in the last episode, that ain't going to change any time fast. Because regardless of what everyone says, you can throw as much money as a problem as you like. But I've heard some big numbers quoted in relation to how under-resourced we are in the construction industry. Yeah. That's something like, you know, 81,000 short of what we would require to have any chance of just maintaining existing construction levels.

Starting point is 00:22:01 And if you add in the pain that the construction industry is feeling, plus the delays that occur as a result of the three levels of government that are involved been approving that process, well, demand's going to get worse. Supply's going to get worse, not better. But all of that is great news for investors. There you go. That is good.

Starting point is 00:22:23 We want scarcity. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're spot on with the construction too. I'm reading numbers of, you know, 90,000 shortage to be able to hit the housing accord. Depending on if you're looking at HIA or master builders, one of them is saying 2027 will hit the target of 240k in that particular year but in no other year and it's a high interest rate environment and we saw material input costs rise 33 percent

Starting point is 00:22:50 during the COVID pandemic we've had a lot of construction liquidations it's about a quarter almost a third of all companies in the last 12 months have been construction companies and you know any construction company that's still trading is wanting to recruit those bad couple years where they had those fixed price contracts where many projects were happening at a loss and you know I feel like it needs to be a lower interest rate environment for these projects to stack and there's lots of data saying the percentage of Melbourne apartments selling for a loss is peaking at like around 40 percent compared to maybe 20 percent pre-COVID there's so much pointing to the fact that construction is is not going to be the savior to house prices in

Starting point is 00:23:35 in 2025 spot on i think the other associating issue with that which which which feeds off what you've just mentioned there is that we we have a tremendous history of supplying the wrong type of accommodation in the wrong spot at the wrong time and that just adds to the problem so if we we're going to jam pack sardine can departments into uh city arenas that are that the developers are going to lose money i don't need to say much more no no you don't so i mean that's where you've really probably transitioned us into the what won't change um immigration is going to be less than what we expected there or thereabouts uh interest rates it's not going to be a saving grace but we you know we might get some cuts later in the year or in and around the election whenever

Starting point is 00:24:27 whenever that happens we're still going to have government fiddling around the margins we're still going to have people saying this is the next hot spot when you and I would agree you know it's good to time a little bit of boom and jump into the next one where you can but it's the long-term performance that makes a difference but if we are zeroing in as investors thinking 2025 is where I really want to what's the opposite of keeping your powder dry I've never heard someone say i want my powder to be wet but that's what i'm getting at if someone wants wet powder in 2025 what's what what moves should they be making well well it sounds very boring and unexciting mike but but good investing is very boring and unexciting it's it's like watching

Starting point is 00:25:16 paint dry and grass grow uh if you're doing it but if providing your investment horizon is long enough. And you know, I almost ad nauseum say to people, if you're getting into property, you need to be in at least 15 years and more. Not just for the growth, but also as an insurance policy to go to make sure you're going through that full growth cycle. And if you are, then location doesn't mean so much. You know, there's so much focus on location, then and this hotspot stuff. That's okay. But if you're adopting that long term

Starting point is 00:25:52 horizon where everything reverts to that mean then locationally providing it's got those three eyes that i keep banging on about attached to it infrastructure industry incomes uh then you're going to be okay so i i would be really focusing on uh and all this information is for free uh you've only got to spend some time on the internet looking at where the new infrastructure is heading and i'm talking about committed infrastructure here not not political promise infrastructure that never seems to eventuate but the real stuff that's occurring and you know the cordels and there's a whole bunch of infrastructure sites you'd be all over it like a rash i would have thought mike in relation to knowing what's happening where uh so i talked to mike he's that

Starting point is 00:26:37 he's the man he'll tell you where the infrastructure is going to happen i'll just dobbed you in there mate yeah cheers but uh but definitely follow that definitely look very clearly where those the new industries are happening so the renewables and everything that goes with that have a have a good look at that in that in that context and then that income play that i was i was talking about but it's then then really just a scarcity game from there because because we've seen this affordability location balancing act happen over the last couple of years uh there isn't going to be another perth or adelaide i don't believe i i think those days are actually gone and avoid those market makers that we spoke about in the first episode so i would you know

Starting point is 00:27:24 what's the saying there's there's um lies lies and statistics well there's lies lies and data in our current exercise. So be very careful of what data that you're listening to, but make sure it's forward projecting as far as that goes. And then beyond that, because it gets right down to the street and property level in relation to property. So ignore the medium price stuff

Starting point is 00:27:50 and the negative Nellies in the media, as well as the hotspotting kings at the other end of the scale pushing a certain location. become a contrarian focus on those fundamentals that i spoke about and then for me if you're looking at being in the sweet spot of scarcity in terms of supply and demand then a good quality three to four bedroom home in a tightly held area in a good school catchment location that has the three eyes that are about to happen and has lifestyle amenity attached to it that's about as difficult as it actually needs to get.

Starting point is 00:28:30 I was going to say it sounds pretty simple when you put it like that. I mean, it's hard to build a course around. It seems like everyone's building a course. I've noticed you haven't got one. But it isn't much more difficult than that if you're really focusing on it. And I think one of the mistakes that I see a lot of investors make around this arena is there's a big talk. There's two things.

Starting point is 00:28:55 There's big talk about investment-grade property. And that's okay. Yes, a property's got to tick the investment boxes, but the way to really make property work for you is to grow its value, then sell it to create an income at the other end of the journey, which means that whenever you buy a property,

Starting point is 00:29:14 think about who you're going to sell it to. So if you're buying an investment grade property that's only going to appeal to investors in the future, you've just done it yourself out of 70% of the buying public if you buy on emotion, not on rational spreadsheets. So it must have that X factor on a rock or a pile of people. It's got to look brave from the street. You've got to do some dancing in relation to the kitchens

Starting point is 00:29:36 and bathrooms that, and you can do this after you buy it to actually give it that uplift that creates the X factor that then gives you the opportunity to maximise your manufacturing of growth during that period. So that's one factor. The other thing that I wouldn't mind just touching on, Mike, and I know it's probably near and dear to your heart, is that I'm sick to death, quite frankly,

Starting point is 00:29:58 of hearing about property professionals downing new build construction properties. And I'll tell you why. Yes, off the plan gets a bad rap and quite often appropriate. But if you apply everything that we've spoken about, a good quality three to four bedroom home in a tightly held area that doesn't have acres of greenfield development sitting on the side of it

Starting point is 00:30:26 that's going to dilute its value and keep it down. But if you're going to apply a new build exercise to a property that's got all those other parameters working to it, not only are you going to get the stab journey benefits in terms of the cost reduction, but there are very significant depreciation benefits that are still applied to new builds that you don't get on existing.

Starting point is 00:30:45 And the big piece that very few investors focus on is the ongoing affordability of that property. Yes. Like you, a lot of the work we do with investors, we get right down to how much per week is this property going to cost you in year 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, beyond, based on every cost in buying and holding that property. If you don't know that number and all you're going,

Starting point is 00:31:07 here's the rent, here's the mortgage year, I think I can afford the gap, you're in for a big shock and a big surprise. And I think that's the reason why over half of first-time investors sell a property in the first five years, because they haven't got down to the nitty-gritties of how much is that property actually going to cost you to hang on to? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:22 So I think within all of this, if you can, and there are, it's still the ability to do it. Yes, the construction industry is in strife, but there are also a lot of builders that are starting to struggle for opportunity. If you can negotiate fixed price so that you can control scope, quality, and cost, then a very smart investor can do very well

Starting point is 00:31:45 at securing a property with those scarcity factors, but also has that cost affordability working for them so that they don't have to live on baked beans and dog food while they hang on to the property. Yeah, I think that's a really important point because the data still says that, you know, what is it, 91% of people only ever own one investment property and I think it's because they get the first one wrong

Starting point is 00:32:09 and the easiest way to get that wrong is to not understand the cash flow and be forced into a position to sell and that you know maybe you'll bounce back financially to the point where you could get into property again but you've had this pain lecture that just makes it just it's insurmountable to think we could go back but understanding the cash flow and how much it's actually going to cost you each week and and and how to sort of put a little bit of a soothing ointment on top of that we can go okay well if it's growing five percent per year like on net it's actually putting this in our pocket we just don't have to we just don't have it in our bank account but we just need to

Starting point is 00:32:45 cover that i think if everybody went through that exercise i think those statistics would be better totally agree totally agree and again i think there's a inappropriately a lot of negativity thrown at the new build piece it's like anything if you if you the devil's in the details if you get those details right then i'm a massive component of building as an architect and a project manager many years ago Mike and that's all I did every day of the week so I've got real confidence around what new build properties can do if you get get all of the other parameters and in terms of using all of those depreciation and tax incentives to actually smooth the cash flow so that you continue to live while your property grows in value happy days but one other

Starting point is 00:33:33 quick thing that I'll mention because I know you're under some time pressure one of the other things in addition to following the infrastructure. So without naming names, because I don't like doing that in terms of location, but major infrastructure projects like the inland rail project, there will be regional hubs that have enough critical mass there that will be worth investigating, I believe. It still has to have those three I's applied to it beyond the rail exercise, because if it's a whistle stop, that's a very different story. but there will be locations there that are worth investigating the other thing that i think is worth slip streaming on is these massive uh cashed up boomers that are choosing lifestyle locations

Starting point is 00:34:18 and paying cash for property you're going to put pressure on prices in those locations i think there's six million boomers about a quarter of them uh are going to be making the change from the the right sizing from the the big house that they're rattling around into into a more maintainable lifestyle accommodation uh those sorts of lifestyle locations that still have the you know and i'm talking locations that have 25 000 plus so there's a critical mass of population there and there's not too many renters in those locations uh a smart investor can arbitrage on that and then slip in behind them and ride some of the growth that will come out of that yeah and i think a smart government will continue to incentivize downsizing because you know that

Starting point is 00:35:03 can help with household formation rates which you know you move a point a percentage point of that and suddenly it's like oh we need you know 50 000 less homes you know it's that's that's an interesting little thing that not a lot of people talk about so yeah that that is a big one i think smart governments are actually more on yeah sorry you can dream we can dream can't we all right well 2025 i mean we'll get you back just to check in and and see how your your prophecies have uh have fared but i i can't see any any holes in in in that and and and everything that you've shared on the year that was i think informs uh what investors should know about for 2025 and you've given some real gold for us to be zeroing in on and a little bit of research uh for us as

Starting point is 00:35:53 well which is never hurts anyone so bushy thank you very much for joining us for a look at 2025 and best of luck to you and yours for the season thank you mike always humbled to be here i'm just going to leave you with one thought around a good appropriate title for 2025 if you're a joe cocker fan and perhaps i'm showing my age here because i like music of all ages i think it's going to be a whiter shade of pale a whiter shade of pale there'll be growth but better be back at the sorts of levels that we've been used to pre-COVID, we're going to see much more locational variation and out-of-sync activity, which was always the case

Starting point is 00:36:33 prior to the pandemic petrol being thrown on the property fire. I like that. Yeah, and I think we're right there. And to quote Joe Cocker, don't come in through the bathroom window this Christmas, you'll only frighten the guests. I can't be serious with you, Bushy. thank you for joining

Starting point is 00:36:52 and we'll have you back hopefully in the new year thank you Mike cheers mate thanks for tuning in to Get Invested on the Property Hub podcast channel

Starting point is 00:37:01 your home for property investment insights and inspiration make sure you subscribe to Property Hub for free get your weekly dose of Get Invested

Starting point is 00:37:09 inspiration along with every episode of Realty Talk Australia's top online property show for red hot property investing news and insights

Starting point is 00:37:17 direct from industry leaders and influencers And finally, I'll see you next time.

Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Real Estate Foresight, part 2 - How to thrive in 2025

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