Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested: Rebroadcast: Tim Dwyer's investment frameworks for a successful life

Episode Date: February 29, 2020

In over 100 episodes, the Get Invested podcast has featured some incredible guests with insights that, without overstating it, will change your life.  But as this show grows, some of the early gold can get missed - especially for newer subscribers. So this week we're rebroadcasting one of our most powerful episodes, an interview with Tim Dwyer. Tim is the global director of Shirlaws Group and the founder of Growth Metrics Australia. He’s a business coach, strategist and advisor who has mastered the art of helping small and medium-sized enterprises.   In this fascinating conversation, we followed Tim’s journey in business over the course of his decorated career. We dove deep into business philosophy, frameworks for investing and scaling a business, and approaches to money that lead to wealth and freedom. We also touched on how Tim approaches property investment and how he allocates his financial resources. There's this, and so much more. So whether this is a new interview to you, or you heard this one when it first went live, take the time to sit back and absorb these crucial wealth insights. Get Invested is the podcast dedicated to time poor professionals who want to work less and live more. Join Bushy Martin, one of Australia’s top 10 property specialists, as he and his influential guests share know-how on the ways investing in property can unlock the life you always dreamed about and secure your financial future. Remember to subscribe on your favourite podcast player, and if you're enjoying the show please leave us a review. Find out more about Get Invested here https://bushymartin.com.au/get-invested-podcast/  Want to connect with Bushy? Get in touch here https://bushymartin.com.au/contact/  This show is produced by Apiro Media - http://apiropodcasts.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ladies and gentlemen, and fellow Freedom Fighters, welcome back to the Get Invested podcast. This is Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property Finance, and today we have an absolutely mind-blowing discussion with Tim Dwyer on the definitions of success, his investment frameworks, and designing a successful life. If you're really keen to hear some tips and tricks for successful investing that lead to a secure and time-rich life, then I know you're going to love this week's episode. My guest is the Global Director of Sure Laws Group and the founder of Growth Metrics Australia. Tim is a sensational business coach, a strategist, and a business advisor, and he's mastered

the art of helping small and medium-sized enterprises. He is just brilliant at cutting to the chase and coming up with really easy-to-comprehend frameworks and strategies that cut through to the essence of what you need to be doing if you're going to succeed. In our really in-depth and fascinating conversation we followed Tim's journey in business over the course of his decorated career. We dove deep into business philosophy to the frameworks for investing and scaling in business and approaches to money that lead to wealth and freedom. We also touched on how Tim approaches property investment and how he allocates his financial resources. As you go through the gold that you're going to get out of

this discussion, there's some really great topics that we touch on, and they include the importance of operating on high margin and low volume, Tim's width and depth framework, which is really interesting, why Richard Branson's so famous and how to emulate his branding approach, and the pitfalls of do-it-yourself property investment. Tim is a fantastic guy to have a chat to. He's got enormous knowledge and he's just got this brilliant ability to explain things simply so you really get what's going on. I know you're going to love this and I'm sure you'll be listening to it for a few times. You better get out your pen and paper because there's a lot of gold that you'll be able to take away from this. So let's get into enjoying Tim Dwyer. Before we get into it,

if you're a time poor professional who's interested in investing but don't have the time, you don't have the expertise, you don't know where to start, you don't know who to trust, and grab a copy of my book, The Freedom Formula, that gives you all of the know-how. You can check it out at www.bushymartin.com.au or email me at hello at khgroup.com.au. That's H-E-L-L-O at khgroup.com.au and mention Get Invested for a special bonus.

I might add that all of the proceeds of the book are going to Living It Rough and Doing It Tough, a really dedicated group who provide for the needs of the homeless and their pets. So please get involved. And now, I hope you enjoy this interview. But there are people out there that will just go and chase what the next big thing is that people are talking about. Instead of actually sitting back and going, okay, hang on a minute, let's do a little bit of research here.

Welcome to the Get Invested podcast, where we share great conversations with experts from all walks of life to uncover their secret know-how on where they invest their time, their skills and their money and the benefits that this has created you see the truth is that everyone invests every minute of every day we're investing our time our skills our energy and our money in something some of us are investing consciously some unconsciously sometimes for good sometimes for bad and sometimes for no impact get invested will help you to start living by design not by default i'm going to help you to make it happen not let it happen you will hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more work less and

leave a living legacy by investing now listen to the show to discover the top tips on how to get started make the most of your investment journey and ultimately to be living your dream not someone else's. More episodes can be found on iTunes or at bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. Thanks for listening and now let's get invested. Okay, let's get invested. I'm here today with Tim Dwyer. Now, I've been very fortunate to have spent quite a bit of time with Tim through the Key Person of Influence program and have been And I'm more than impressed and awed with the way that Tim is able to take very complex business subjects and distill them into very understandable frameworks. So I really appreciate you spending some time with me today, Tim.

Thanks, Bushy. Looking forward to drilling into the opportunity that people have to invest in their businesses and see that as a growth asset. But before we get into the meaty subjects so that the listeners have got a feel for who you are and what you do, can you just sort of give us a rundown on what you're currently doing and why you're doing it? Yeah, sure. So I've been in business now for over 30 years. And I've been through corporate and in the last 20 years, I've been working, doing advisory and coaching and consulting to the small and medium enterprise market. And I absolutely love it. So I left corporate, I started my own business and I've gone through and I think I've made every mistake and some.

And as a result of that, I'm very passionate about sharing my mistakes and sharing how people can either avoid them or move through them quicker. Because business is all about making mistakes. So it's about pushing the limits and giving it a go. and so I really want to see more and more people make lots of mistakes and learn and grow from those mistakes and really make a difference in the world. Brilliant.

Let's jump straight in there actually because that's a great place to start. Over the mistakes that you've made, what do you see is the biggest mistake and probably the most common mistake that you've seen yourself and others make in business and what can people be doing to perhaps avoid that? Really big question.

uh the mistakes sit in three areas um so uh the first area is their their infrastructure that they operate on right um and then their their overall revenue strategy uh and then their approach to assets yes okay okay can you give a bit of an example to put some flesh around that yeah so um so around the infrastructure one so the infrastructure asset is infrastructure is what we run on. Infrastructure is what sits behind the scenes. You don't see it, but if you don't have it, you don't operate very well. So it's not seen, but it's always there. So an example of that is there's three key infrastructure pieces that people need in order to be successful. And the better this infrastructure, the quicker and higher you can grow. And they revolve

around the three core elements or the three core aspects of life that are really important so um so outside of air uh water and nutrition these are the things that actually uh most critical to us which is our time that we have here on the earth absolutely yeah the money that we have to invest yes yeah and reinvest yes yeah and our capability and skill that we build in order to create value whilst we're here yeah brilliant brilliant so the the key things they're the infrastructure things now if you've got an effective time element and you know how to manage your time really well right then you can achieve more yep if you know how to build capacity and create bigger jumps in in your investment in money yes then that's what we call capacity planning right then you

can spend your money better and more wisely right and then the third one is if you know how to build capability and you have a process for choosing which capabilities you want to build and doing that as a lifetime experience rather than a one-off experience and just build capability, build capability, build capability, you'll grow sky high. And it's a loop. So you build capability to get more time to create more assets, which gives you bigger jumps, which then means you can build more capability to create more time to create bigger jumps.

So it's an upward spiral. It's an upward spiral and it just takes you up into the sky. Yeah, brilliant. They're infrastructure pieces. Yeah, fantastic. Well, to share some of that journey since leaving school, can you sort of talk us through what you invested your time, your energy and your money into

and what has it done to benefit you and to others to this point? Since leaving school? Yes. Yeah, I'm just interested in your decision-making process and what you decided to invest in and where that led you to. Yeah, so I went and did university and did a business degree. Right. And that was a hell of a lot of fun.

And I found the university is just an amazing place to make friends and build a network. Yes. So that's one of the critical elements of why you would go to university. Yeah, good point. And have some fun. And I went to a country university, so it was even funner. It was out at Charles Sturt out of Bathurst.

Okay. That was a hell of a lot of fun. And so I learned enough about business to fool someone. You're not for doing this. Yeah, exactly. I had enough. See, business is about confidence. So if you've got a bit of confidence, then you can bluff your way until you make it.

So then I took a year off and went around the world and explored a little bit there. And then I came back and telecommunications was really starting to hit the scene. And so I actually decided to go work for Telstra because they were privatizing and they were going through some massive changes. Good times were there. I went and was one of their first sales units, basically. Okay. So that was a lot of fun. And I just progressed through there for a number of years.

And then I ended up heading up strategy for Small and Medium Enterprise. Right. For their sales division. Okay. Which, that's how I got into what I do now because I went exploring the market trying to find out who knew, who could tell me how small businesses work and how they go from small to big. There wouldn't be too many people who could answer that question.

It took me two years to find someone. Two years. Two years of searching to find someone. And it wasn't until one of my mentors, internal mentors, and he'd been my boss for many years, actually said, Tim, you've got to come and meet this guy. And I was introduced to a guy by the name of Darren Sherlaw. Right, okay. He's a legend in the space.

Yeah, yeah. And Darren said, so what do you know? And then he took me through how small and medium enterprises actually grow. Okay. So through that process and through that introduction, I then started to investigate more and more about the methodologies and how businesses go from startup and how they move through to investment phases, how they move through into good times, how they then move into payback where they get the big rewards. and straight after that they get frustrated and stressed and disillusioned with the whole process of building business

to how they then go into research and they re-energize themselves and the successful few make it all the way through to advanced growth. Right, right. So, and since then I had a look at it and I said, this is something I really wanted to get into because I saw the merits of it. Yeah. And as a result of that, I then decided to, I had nine years at Telstra, which was a good stint and they'd been really good to me.

And I mean, I went over to China and did an Asian masterclass and they educated me on so many different levels, it wasn't funny. So they really encouraged, it was incredible exposure to build capability. And so I'm very, very grateful for them for doing that. Yeah, brilliant. And then I took those learnings and I said, well, I can't do what I need to do inside Telstra. Yeah. I needed to actually get outside of Telstra

and actually learn about small and medium enterprise. Right. So one day I might be able to go back and help Telstra. Yeah, okay. Okay. Have you been back to help Telstra? Not yet. Not yet.

I'll bet they'll knock on the door before too long. At some point I'm pretty sure they will, but I've got a little bit more to go before around the technology space yet. Right. because there's some interesting stuff happening in that space. Yeah, brilliant. So what I'm hearing is that you've been investing in your own capability

and your own skill set to be able to add some value back to that audience. If I look at where have you – what was the first dollar that you invested in and how did that go? Can you remember? First dollar I invested would have been a business when I was 12. Yeah, what was it? I think I've already told this story on the Dent Podcast. I invested in selling coffee to kids, sorry, coffee to people in the petrol queue.

Right. They don't have petrol queues. During the petrol strike. During the petrol strike. Gotcha. But then after that, I invested in property predominantly to start off with. So I bought some apartment and stuff because I had a job. when you're running in the corporate space,

the better and most investments either sits in shares or in property. Yes. So that's what I did there. So I invested in shares and property. A bit of a mix. A bit of a high-risk one is the biotech stuff, which I've still got. Right, yes. You'll probably still be holding it for a while, I'd imagine.

I'm keen to drill in there. Obviously, I have a personal interest in the property space given that property has been very good to me on my own journey. and and it's not uncommon for corporates who are time poor who are chasing career and chasing income to then in parallel look at growth assets like property and shares as a way of building wealth what was it that because you're obviously fairly young when you did that and i find there's a lot of people who don't even start thinking about that until the kids have left school and they suddenly realize their super's no good and holy shit i need to do something yeah

So what was it that triggered your awareness and need to go, right, I need to invest in property and shares at that stage? Can you remember? Well, in the early stage, it was just what came from my father. He said, just get in early and bite off more than you can chew and away you go. Right. But he's also quite conservative. but at the same time he just sort of said, look, get invested and keep invested and just keep plugging away and it'll all turn out okay.

So what I then did is I invested in property to start off with and then I flipped asset classes. Okay. So I flipped asset class into business. So I'm not just property now, I'm in business quite heavily. Before we drill into that then, what did we look at property in specifically? And you talked about apartments. How have they performed for you?

Do you still have them? I don't have them anymore, not those ones. If I did anything, if I went back, if I did anything right now, I would never sell any properties I bought. Yeah. That is one of my regrets. Right. Okay.

Yeah, good to know. Yeah. So I had three, which I then sold. Okay. And I would have actually, if I just, instead of getting rid of them, If I just leveraged them instead a little bit more, I would have been fine. And I would have had both asset classes. Yes.

So I made a mistake. So now what I'm doing is I'm now flipping my assets from my business assets back into property. Yeah, okay. Okay. Well, the good thing here is the investment in anything is a journey. And if the property has given you the leverage and the capability to have funds to then invest in the business, that then enables you to invest back in those more passive assets, well, it's not a mistake.

No, no. Well, it's a learning. I mean, again, if I had my time again, I'd do both at the same time and get the leverage that way. But at the same time, I didn't – there wasn't people out there teaching this sort of stuff. No. 25 years ago.

No. Everyone held their secrets tight to their chest. Hasn't changed much, Tim. And, yeah, well, I mean, the people out there that are educating people, I just think they're awesome. Yeah. because they're sharing the learnings and they're sharing the how-tos.

Yeah. And the more wealth that we can create for all of us, the more good we can do and the more give back we can do. Yeah, exactly right. So if we come back to the fundamental definition of investment, how would you define invest?

Investment. So you can invest in three different things. The three asset classes are your time, your money, and your capability. Yes. Spot on. So investment is just all about working out where do you want to invest your time or where do you invest your money and why. Yeah.

And then the key element is the process that you go through to invest. And when you go through a solid process, then you have a higher chance of success. Yes. Well, let's focus in on success for a minute. Yep. How do you define success? Okay. So I actually just wrote this to a board recently, actually.

Okay. Because there were some shenanigans going on in this particular company. And I wrote to the board and I said to them, I said, Success is about making mistakes. So people that make mistakes and take responsibility for those mistakes by acknowledging the mistakes first, then looking at the mistake and going, oh, can we learn from that mistake?

And then developing a process or making a change to make sure that the mistake doesn't happen again. And ultimately then taking responsibility for that change to occur. Yes. Those people and those businesses that do that process will be successful. Right. Because it's just a process of making a mistake, taking responsibility, learning from it, making changes and growing. Yep.

Because you actually personally grow through the experience when you take responsibility. Of course. Yep. Now, the flip side of that is businesses that fail, ultimately what they do is their first response is blame. Right. Then they move into a space of judgment. They try and justify. They create reactions. And ultimately, they destroy the asset value of whatever it is they're working on.

Right. And ultimately, they'll fail. Yes. Now, in businesses, in big businesses, a business that can take six years to build up a culture, it can take 12 months to destroy one. Absolutely. So it's really important for people and organizations to look at their own belief systems

and look at their own approach to business and investing. Because when you can see the process and you can take responsibility that you drive the process, there is no one else you can blame for any of your outcomes. The mirror is the great judge, isn't it? It is. And the more people can learn and grow and develop under that philosophy and under the fact that take responsibility of being response able is

about building your own skill, is about investing your own time and money. It doesn't matter if there's external people involved or it's internal people. If you take responsibility for every element of it, you'll succeed. Yeah, totally agree. If we focus on that piece a little bit more. I often use the analogy that if a baby learning to walk fell over and said, oh, this is all too hard, I'm just going to keep crawling, rather than keep doing it until you get it right, I see a lot of parallels in the property space where I'm helping people to take them on a journey towards investing in a portfolio that's going to get them to the end. A big part of what I talk to them about is expect problems. There are going to be issues. And

And if we've got contingencies in place that are going to be able to absorb and handle those, and that breeds a mindset that says, you know, I'm just going to stay the course, there are going to be issues, how have you tackled that in the business arena? Because if I use the stats on property, over 70% of property investors only have one property, and 50% of those sell it within the first five years. And I know that the reason that is, is the mindset's not there, they don't expect issues, it all gets too hard. They wipe their hands, they blame everyone else and they never do it again. Have you seen a similar exercise in the business arena? Absolutely. That's the common experience of many businesses.

So how are you able to then get their mindset in the right place and get them to see the benefits of taking a long-term approach? Okay, so there's a couple of elements within that. So firstly, you mentioned problems. so i actually take people through a process when when i run my programs and i sort of say problems is where you start yes the problems are always there yep it's just whether they're conscious or unconscious right so i get people i get people to actually unwrap all of the problems that are actually sitting in front of them yeah with respect to an investment whether it's expected

their business yep with respect to their relationships whatever it is the problem actually exists it's already there it's just whether or not you're in denial or not about it yes all right so yeah but the the thing around it is um people see problems and they judge them right so as soon as you go into judgment you then stay in denial and you try and control a situation and what ends up happening is there's reactions and no no no positive no positive movement forward yes whereas if people go through a process of writing down their problems they don't have to share them with anyone if they don't want to they just just go through write down all the problems that you see in your world yep if you can see them and just acknowledge them for

this is where you're up to yes it's just it's just is there's no like it doesn't matter it's part of the journey it's part of the journey is where you're up to right yeah they can just sit there and acknowledge it and go uh-huh okay now they can go okay do i want to change any of that and then if they can say well actually i don't like that bit that bit that bit but these three other bits are real problems so i'm going to deal with them right right yeah now the bits that they didn't deal with because they've written down they just let them go they don't matter as much anymore and they don't chew themselves up about it anymore and they go work on the things that do matter right now yes yes because you can't work on everything all the time so you just got

to write them down and then work out well which are the things that are hurting me the most right now yeah yeah that's spot on the the the other thing that's allied to what we're talking about there that i see a lot is that uh creating this ability to see the benefit of investing your time your money and and your capability in a long-term result rather than an instant fix because we we all live in our iphones and everything's at our fingertips and patience and persistence just don't even get a look in the biggest challenge i've had for investors is to see the merits of making the time now to use the time they've got to give them time back yeah because time is again reinforcing what you're talking about the importance of time usage uh in the the property

investment game it's exactly the same because it's you've gotta gotta even though you don't don't have the time now you've got to make the time to use the time to create the time yeah similar exercise how have you been able to motivate people to see the need to take this long-term view and to take action now that's going to get them to the the right result yeah so i mean uh again where they have to go first is look at their mistakes right um so just have a look at their history and have a look at the patterns that they've done before because again you've got to have a crack you've got to you've got to make a mistake to actually work out whether you've made the mistake yes yes spot on um so the first thing is um there's a thing called what i call

flip-flop right uh and flip-flop is just flip-flopping from one thing to another thing to another thing to another thing um so some people go well i need to become wealthy all right so they go a quick okay so i'll go invest in the stock market oh crap the stock market went down oh so i'll rip my money out of there and i better go invest in uh property so they go whack their money on property and then they go holy crap that didn't that didn't go as well as i thought it i better well maybe i better go do it into biotech or maybe i better go do it into so they the next best flavor the next best flavor and they just listen so that's an extreme but but there are people out there lots that that will just go and chase um what the next big thing is that people

are talking about yeah um instead of actually sitting back and going okay hang on a minute Let's do a little bit of research here. So let's get familiar with what the concept of property investment or entrepreneurial investment or buying a franchise or getting the corporate promotion or – like there's all those different asset classes that you've got and choices you've got. It's about getting fully educated on what is that –

what does it mean to be successful in that area. Yeah. All right? Yeah. And so there's a framework that we've used that's called width and depth. Okay. The width is all the possibilities you could do.

The depth is how deep you want to go with it. Right. Right? Okay. The depth is the critical element. Yes. And that's a process. Absolutely.

So you've got to go through a concept phase where you work out why that whole thing exists. Yep. Then what is all the components that sit inside of it? Right. Then how does the inner workings work? Yes. Right, and once you do those three layers, you can get really, really good at it.

Once you get really, really good at it, you can then learn how to teach other people how it works. Right. Then it becomes an asset. Yes, yes. Then you've got an asset to then leverage. I totally agree. It's something that I'm very keen to drill in a bit deeper on this because in my own case, early on in my career, I saw what I did in business as an income generator, not as an asset wealth creator.

So a bit like your initial corporate career, you're putting your energy into building your schools and then wealth was being created through property. I've taken a very similar view up to a point of making a decision to get on board with a key performance, a key person of influence program where the light bulb vibe's gone on that it's not only property that's the asset,

it's business that is also going to be a saleable asset that will both give me a great income stream, but more importantly, an asset at the end of the journey that's going to sustain my lifestyle long term. Absolutely. And what I love about what you've done, Tim, is to codify and put that into a formula, a set of principles and a process

that we all like to think our business is unique and that we all do things differently, but what you've made very clear is that no, it ain't. No, it's a formula. We're all going through the same path. And you've touched on some of these things already, But can you just sort of give us a Reader's Digest version of what your formula and the process is so that listeners can start to recognise the opportunity that business is going to give them to then go down a similar path? Do you want me to do this for business, is it?

Yes, because that's where your expertise is and you do that very well. And I don't think anyone I've met has actually boiled down business into a formula that's going to build an income-producing saleable asset that's going to help contribute. but everyone thinks their business is good. The trouble is with most people is that they are the business and when they get to the end of the journey, they go, okay, my business is worth a mint, but as soon as you take them out of it, you've got nothing versus the approach that you've distilled

into a fantastic process that means that, one, they're out of the business earlier anyway because you've created a product-wise business that then is a saleable asset, but not many people are either aware of that or know how to make that work. Okay. Why don't I give you the five-minute versions?

Yes, please. Okay. So, firstly, business is a formula. So, there's mathematics that sit underneath it. Yep. And when you know how the formula works and how the mathematics works, it means that you can learn and you can grow and move businesses very, very quickly. Right.

So a business that will go through a phase of business will normally go through a phase. There's phases and cycles. I won't go too much into detail. Sure. They'll go through a phase or a cycle in 17 to 30 years. Right. And whenever I tell people that that's how long it takes to go through a phase,

they get very upset with me. Well, in an allied, when I say to people a property cycle is 8 to 15 years. Yeah. And if you're not in it for 15, then you're not going to do very well. Yeah, right. So it's a very similar analogy, actually. It is very similar. Yeah.

With the phases, though, in business, you can go through them in three to six. Three to six? Three to six. Okay. But in business, you start off small and you've got to go through multiple phases to get to a really decent size. Right. So three to six, you can take a business from zero through to 12 million in two phases. Okay.

Right. So the first phase is from zero to 750. Yep. Then you go break through to the 1 million mark and then when you go from the 1 million mark, you then can go through to the 12 million relatively quickly if you focus on the right things. Right. And what are they?

Well, in the first phase of business, which is really it starts at 80K all the way through to 750, that's what we call the doing phase. That's where you're working it all out. Okay. Right. You're selling, you're building channels, you're looking at how you build your product and you're doing branding. Right.

So it's what we call the ing phase. Yep. And then businesses go, they drop into what we call the 750K black hole. Right. Don't take these numbers literally, by the way. So these numbers are the general numbers. Right. But not every business follows them.

So some businesses, it all depends on their intellectual property and their systems they build. Of course. It will depend on these numbers. But these are just the generic numbers we use to explain the story. Sure, raw thumb. Okay. So at $750,000, that's the very big black hole and people fall into that. Right.

And they fall into that because their numbers of people are out of whack inside the business. Right. So they hit what we call the seven-person black hole. Okay. Right. And this is where 95% of businesses globally fall into this black hole and never come out. Hmm. Yeah.

And the reason why is the mix between sales, delivery and service and support is all out of balance at seven people. Right. So when I say it's mathematical, it's not mathematics that we taught at school. This is all about people, numbers and where people spend their time. Yes. Yeah, okay, awesome. It's interesting.

It's ringing bells with the model that's worked well in our business And as property investment advisors and we have a finance team, what we've found works really well is what I refer to as the finders, the binders and the minders, which is a four-person triangle basically. And we've got one finder, we've got two binders and then we've got one minder. And once that's that capacity, that's operating really well. And then once we've exceeded that, we just create another one of those. Yeah, that's right. So that's how you get through the seven-person black hole. is you duplicate falls okay okay so fours is the four four diamond four is good okay so you're

doing you're doing good so and that then when you've got three fours you've got 12. and then you just readjust them slightly and then you you go again so but the thing is the dynamics change though so when you when you break three free of the 750 black hole you then go into the seven figure businesses of a million plus right and then you move into the new phase right right and that's where businesses have to build processes yes yes and it's a different different mindset at this point right um and then once they get the mindset right though they can jump from uh 1.5 to 3 mil 3 mil to 6 mil 6 mil 12 mil right um and if they if they if they do it in the right order and they and and they get their branding right and they brand lead it lead it yeah so the other

thing is that the reason why businesses take 17 to 30 years to go through a phase instead of three to six is because they build bottom up not top down yes so you build your brand and look at how your brand's going to be positioned yeah then you build your product lines underneath that then you build your partnerships then you build your sales processes right that's how you go that's how you go whooshka up through the yes yes okay yeah that makes complete sense yeah yeah okay so So for those that are listening, and let's face it, a lot of Australians are in that small business enterprise space. Yeah. And a lot of them aren't really thinking enough about how they can create a saleable asset out of everything they're putting their energy into.

What are the key ingredients? or you talk about productising a business and for those that aren't familiar with that terminology, particularly if you're in a service-based business, you think, what do you mean you're talking about products? And a lot of us are in service-based businesses essentially these days. To boil it down to the key things

that create that asset base, what are they? So the key revenue components is brand, product, channels. yes and your sales system right yeah wrong so the the brand side of things I'm not a brand expert I mean if there's people out there that do brand is it there's a new organization coming to Australia from the UK called Bob group right so there's someone that I'm having a really good look at yeah and they're they're in the business of building brand and then also getting the brand system in right which is looking at the product ization looking at the channel

looking at the sale assets yes okay um so they're they're the four components so if i just repeat that brand yeah product channels um and sales process gotcha so the brand is what draws people to you yep that's the trust and the the awareness it's who you are so it's what we call the brand dna yes right so it's the essence of you yeah the essence of what your value is that you're here to deliver so if we take virgin and richard branson then the values that he creates in terms of just just do it and do it with fun and creativity that's that's his brand that's his brand right yeah so he's he's built he's he's the uh the the the pinnacle of all of this because he he did was the one of the first to do it or if not the first to do it right he was one of the first to do both

business branding and personal branding yes so whenever anyone says well who's the best at brand everyone goes branson because he's done both yes whereas a lot of other people have been able to build personal brand like the beckhams yep or there's other people that have been able to build company brand yep like singapore airlines yes right yes so you've got either company brand or personal brand the reason why branson's so famous is because he's done both so he covers the whole uh the whole picture and i'm sure there's a secret sauce in doing that because The struggle that most businesses have is that, again, the key person is the one that has the awareness and the brand.

The minute they're out of the business, they don't have a business. Well, that's right. So you actually want to build both. Yes, yes. So if you can build both, you can then build wonderful assets. Yes. So look at Branson. He doesn't have to do much.

Just sits back on the island and greets people and shows them how to do it. Yeah, but he can create some amazingly wealthy ventures by leveraging his brand. It's like Greg Norman's done the same with his golf courses and property development. Incredibly successful. Yes. So there's a whole lot of – when you look at the really, really successful people, guess what they've built? Yeah, a brand. A brand.

So following on from brand? So then underneath that is products. Yes. Now, again, I just want to – products in what we're talking about aren't necessarily physical products which the average person associates. If we're in a service-based industry, can you just expand on what that is? Even if you're in a service-based industry, there's a physical something is the outcome. You're delivering some sort of an outcome.

Even if it's advice. Yes. There's a physical outcome from the advice. Yeah. Someone will make an investment decision or they'll buy a pen they'll they'll do something yeah as a result of some form of advice yes right um so service-based industries need to productize as much as anyone else yeah so um yeah um time for money is dead yeah and has been for some time yeah however we still need to measure time and we still need to

measure our time for money yes don't price it that way yes so i always say don't don't stop measuring time for money just don't bill it that bill out that way so you gotta look at what the value proposition is of what it is that you are selling yes uh when you when you look at the value proposition um and you can then uh put that value proposition into a package yep you're then able to go sell the package for a price of course right and for a value proposition because it's giving them a solution not not a part of the ingredients correct yeah now where we've where we've come unstuck with this and it comes back to what we're taught yeah um so um if i say what what what is the formula for profit yeah and what most people will tell me well if i and if you if you're

listening to this and you've got a pen and paper write down just so you can i can show you what i mean by this but it's a lot most people will say oh profit equals revenue minus costs yeah i say no it's not and i'll have lots of big arguments with people the accounts will be going to oh yeah they'll be going to town on me but i see even as soon as i explained to the accounts i'm like well you didn't give me that piece of information i said so true profit yeah is volume yeah times margin of course margin is revenue minus cost yes yes all right exactly now as soon as you see that and you go, oh, true profit is volume times margin, then it shifts your mindset away from time-based billing

because you're going to go, I've only got so much time, so I need to create products that I can produce at volume. Yes, exactly. So therefore you can have products that are high volume, low margin or products that are high margin, low volume or the panacea or the golden goose, for the high-margin, high-volume, which is what we call Apple, or the low-margin, low-volume, which is what we call...

Nice test. Yeah, very good description. My wife and I have always operated on the ethos of high-margin, low-volume because it means we have to do less work for more return. But to do that, we've always had to provide a superior solution that people really value. And if I put that in real terms, the finance component of our business, for example, there's 1,000 finance brokers out there all flogging low-rate loans. And when we got our team to shift from low-rate loans to we're giving you a home ownership solution, so we would manage that whole process for them.

and we do it in a way that reduced their monthly costs to a point where they could then invest the surplus in building a property portfolio that would then ultimately create enough wealth that would replace their income. Suddenly we're having a completely different conversation than every other finance broker that's out there trying to grab the chips and sell a low-rate loan.

Yeah, well, the client will ultimately get a better outcome anyway and either make more money or save more money through going through someone that's actually stacking up the value. Yes. Right? Because there's three components to it. So whenever you're making decisions around anything, it's time, cost, quality.

Right. Right? So is this going to save me time? Is it going to save me costs? Or do I have to let go of quality? So there's only three components when you're making a buying decision. Yes. Now, what normally happens is if everyone goes

towards the cost one yeah then you've got to let go of quality yeah and it means you've got to spend more time yes right yes so so if you go for if so if people understand that actually sometimes if i go for the lowest price it means it's going to be a pain in the ass for me um or i'm gonna have to let go of the quality they won't go that way so i do this with a lot of building clients and of course and they explain this quite well yeah um but they go to someone if if someone's going to go to say one of my clients he's a a very very successful builder and he explains to his clients look if you want to go to a tender fine here's a tender document and here's how you the process yeah and they say why are you giving this all to me yes and he goes to save you some

time and they go but you're still giving it all to me you go yeah but you get it's going to save you a heap of time because if you try and do this on your own and try and work it out it's going to it's going to spend you're going to spend at least a week to two weeks of your own personal time I'm trying to work all this out because you've never built before. Exactly. And they go, I never even thought of it that way. But here's all the documents. Take them.

It'll save you a week's worth of work. And they go, oh, okay. And they say, well, how can I save the other week? And they say, well, let me do the tender for you. And they all go, oh, okay. And why don't I show you how all the costing works? Why don't I open it up and I'll show you how it all works so that you don't have to worry about it?

And then they go, okay, so I don't need to go to tender? And he goes, no, no, it'll save you a heap of time and you'll get a better quality outcome. Yeah, brilliant approach. So he's moved from competing with all of the seagulls to basically operating on the client side to give them the right result. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, brilliant, brilliant. Excellent. Okay, so that's covered that element. I think we're up to channels. Yeah, sorry, yeah, sorry. Yeah, so we've got brand, we've got productization. Yes. And then there's channels,

which is all about how you get your product to market. Right, right. Can you put some examples around that? So channels, again, for some of the listeners may not mean a great deal. What does that mean? In the macro sense, if you look at corporates, because they're always a good example,

Kellogg's produce cornflakes, Woolworths distribute them. Gotcha. There's a channel. Right? Yeah. So you're either a product company. If you're a product company, you need a channel to go to market. Yeah, yeah.

Sometimes you might be the channel, right so if you're really good at relationships it could be that you're the channel and you're looking for products to put through your channel yes yes so if you're controlling the client opportunity side and you're just looking for delivery yeah or distribution arm yeah then you are the channel that's it yes um but even channels need channels yes yes because uh channels are all about the relationship right all right so product is all about the packaging up of value yep brand is all about the representation of value yes all right yep so the top two value proposition and value packaging yep the the channels and sales is all about relationships

yes so so channel relationships are the one to many yes so they're the ones that can distribute you to where you need to go to get the clients that you want to be working with yep and then the sales process is all about the conversion uh which is all about creating relationships yes so the channels is all about working out those ones relationships you want to be in long term yeah um that are going to give you the the feed of the leads uh and and and the introductions yeah uh sales is making sure that you create the right relationships yeah uh on the the the basis of the true value exchange yep um and then then if you establish that there's a true value exchange and the relationship is there in terms of trust,

then conversion happens. Yes, okay. Understood. That's what we call solution selling. Yeah, brilliant. It's not product flogging. No. Yeah, it's giving a solution that the end user is going to find very high value.

Yeah, and the most important thing around sales is knowing if you're not prepared to walk away from a sale, not prepared to walk away from an interaction, interaction it means your product flogging yes absolutely so it's all about very good point it's it's it's more important to be able to say no than to say yes yes and it's it's interesting you pick that up it's something that we've instilled in the culture of our business when we're meeting someone for the first time we'll say you're sitting on that side of the table deciding whether you want to do business with us we're actually also deciding whether we want to

do business with you yeah because if we're not going to respect each other because this is a this is a marriage we're going to if we're going into property then this is a 10 to 15 year journey if we don't respect each other if we don't have some fun together and if we don't expect there's going to be some speed bumps along the way but we're going to work together to actually achieve the outcome we're better off shaking each other's hand and absolutely each other well yeah so i got a philosophy around business yeah um and i i get more and more strict on this philosophy the older i get um uh but businesses there's three prong is the purpose of business is to create its maximum value exchange yes in the least amount of time yeah great whilst having the most amount of fun

brilliant yeah what a what a fantastic definition when you apply that and you go and then when when we're in relationship and we're going on this journey together yeah the speed humps are the mistakes yes because we have to make mistakes if we're going on this journey together that's the growth opportunities the growth opportunities so whenever there's a mistake especially when there's a mistake inside um the relationship yes if both parties take responsibility for the mistake yeah the journey together will continue of course if one party blames justifies denies tries to control the situation yeah the relationship will break down yes yes that's a very good point so the key key element to it is choose the people you want to go on the journey

with because you want to like them yes um so we choose our clients very carefully yeah um and they choose us very carefully yes um and then uh once once once we're on the journey and once we're working with each other and and and no no one's obliged they have don't have to stay they can jump on and off at any on and off at any time yeah um so i've got people i've got relationships i I haven't seen them in five years, but when we catch up, it's like yesterday. It's like old friends. Just like old friends. Yeah, brilliant.

That's brilliant. Yeah, and it comes back to that respect. And if you're all shooting for a mutual goal, then you can ride through those things. Yeah. So, no, that's fantastic, mate. I want to change direction a little bit here in that there's been a lot of talk around what should I be investing in? And we've talked about the various classes.

you can invest in business you can invest in equities market you can invest in property there's a and there's a school of thought that that says that uh i should invest in property more because all the baby boomers have basically been on this accumulation run for the last x years and now they're starting to retire so they're now divesting themselves of these assets we've got the the young ones who aren't interested in ownership they're just about lifestyle so suddenly we don't have a need for that anymore so don't invest in property invest in your own brand now I guess from my own personal perspective I tend to diversify so I think you I think you need to have some irons in a couple of fires so you absolutely got to invest in yourself but at the

same time if you if you're reliant just on that opportunity and dynamically there's a an economic impact that means that doesn't occur anymore if you haven't got irons in another fire that's creating a passive asset that will give you an income stream but also sustain lifestyle yes we'll we'll it's like any asset class not all property is going to do well and never has no so i've spent a lot of time educating our clients that there's a there's a formula to how to invest and where to invest and how to structure that investment to make sure that you're going to optimize the opportunity for growth and they're things that most people don't think about then i won't won't boy with them now but one what do you think about that that philosophy and and what's

what's your approach to where you're going to invest your energy into the future so um property is one of those beautiful tangible assets um uh you can you can touch and feel property yeah um uh business um is an intangible asset right um but it's a higher risk higher return right so this is all about risk and return yes i think it was robert kawasaki um uh i heard this from he always said that you um the philosophy was you make your money in business you store your money in property yeah um and you protect against inflation with precious metals yes that's the hedge exactly uh well these days it's um you make your money in business yeah and you can make your money in property yes and you protect your money

in precious metals yeah but then there's got this old crypto currency now yes the bitcoin revolution thing coming up which is watch this space i reckon in the next 10 years that's gonna be fascinating but it will be um uh so yeah so there's there's there's another asset class being created yes uh which is quite incredible um that's quite exciting yeah quite exciting but at the same time there's one asset class that's never going away yep and that asset class is property yeah i've always said that what i personally love about property apart from the fact that you can leverage into it in terms of return on your investment the fact that the banks will still let you borrow up to 95 of the value of a property says that they see it as a safe place

to put money but it means you're getting a 10 times return there's not many up until meeting you there weren't many businesses that i've seen that have been able to achieve that sort of multiplier when they get to the point of selling it i've now seen that with what you can bring to the table you do have the ability to leverage up that that multiplier and create a similar similar return but um what drives the property market isn't you and i as an investor it's the 70% of owner occupiers who it's a real need asset and they buy on emotion, not on investment principles versus the share market that is pretty much a perfect market and that everyone's operating on the same information and it's instantaneous in terms of its impacts, it's

so dynamic but none of them, they're buying on emotion, they're buying on what they think is the right price on the day. Yeah, well the share market's like everything, it's all influenced by major players. Yes. So the share market's influenced by the fund's managers. Of course. So the fund's managers dictate what the share price is going to be. Yeah.

The mum and dad investor. They're like. They're doing the pun. Really, they're playing at the end. They're minnows playing with the whales, aren't they? Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

So the thing I always encourage with everyone around any investment class is work out how and why the investment class works. Yes. so if you know how it all works you can then actually apply it to your advantage I'll give you an example

I mentioned Darren Sherlaw he was a mentor of mine and he's still a mentor of mine for many years and in 2007 he came to our I got him down here to Australia shortly after it but he basically told everyone

that the stock market was going to crap itself right and this was in july 20 21st of july i remember the date okay um and we we all said why and he goes because and he just showed us the mathematical stats with how over in the us it was going to take nine months and 21 days sorry it was eight months and 21 days to sell a house in the us yes and he goes it was trending down and he said before uh october or by october it'll be nine months um and uh at that point in time the funds managers will all um take a new position and sell all the stock and we're going to go into a deep recession very prophetic yeah and he just sort of said it's just it's just the cycle it's these cycles come and go and

this one's this one's coming yeah and then i i flew him out here a couple of times um through from 2008 2009 all the way through to 2012 because he was Australian but he lives over in the UK at the moment okay and he then we took hundreds and hundreds of people through planning your business by looking at the economic cycle yes now this wasn't a financial advice this was looking how you manage your business of course through the cycle yes not how you invest in shares through the cycle of course that wasn't that wasn't no no no because what happens is the stock market precedes the business market by six to twelve months

right so whatever the stock market's doing it's a lead indicator of what's going to happen in the economy of course and so we always get all of our business owners to watch the stock market yep to know what's going to happen in their market brilliant so if you look at the stock market now it's almost up back up to six thousand in australia yeah we're past october so it looks like it's going to keep going yep for for a while yeah um the cryptocurrency is going to take some investment away from it yep um so but not a lot no it's a small little blip in that yeah the main reason why it hasn't burst through its previous high yeah is because corporates aren't investing right they're what they're doing is they're

handing out all the dividends you look at all the dividends that are coming out of all the corporates they're divesting all the money because they don't know what to do with it. Right. Right. So if they invested that money internally all the stock market would be around about $7,000, $8,000 on the index.

So that lack of confidence in putting it back is driven by what do you think? They don't know what to put it into. So if they don't know what to invest in they go, or it's too risky. So there might be investment choices but it all comes down to risk profile. Yes.

So another thing to look at is risk profile. Yep. So generically, we need to all look at our own risk profile. Yep, the sleep at night factor. Yeah, so if you want to go onto this, there's a website called Sherlaw's Compass. Okay. That's S-H-I-R-L-A-W-S.

Yes. And there's a risk indicator you can take on that. Great, we'll put this in the show notes. That's great. And this was profound when I took it. because it shows you – so there's different types of investment risk. So there's how much due diligence you do before you invest and how much volatility and how much you need to manage an investment

after you invest. Yes, brilliant. I'd say exactly the same thing in the property game. If you're going to invest in property, you need to look at how much time are you physically going to need to put in to manage that asset. and if you're having to spend, if you're creating a second job by doing that, you've got to question whether it's the right place

to be putting the money. Yeah, very similar parallel. Exactly. So this indicator, you take the test and it'll ask you a series of questions as if you're a business owner. Right. And you've got to either look at it

from a property perspective, but it looks at it from, if you've got $100 million, what would you do? And this is, it takes you through a whole lot of scenarios. It takes about 15 minutes to do it. But what it shows you, it gives you a number out of 10 for the different elements of risk. Yeah, great.

Awesome. So it gives you a playback number. It was fascinating for me because what it told me was where I make my mistake in investment. Okay. And what is that? Can you share it with us? Are you happy to?

So there's four types of risk. So the two before it, which is the first box is how much due diligence you do. So I was fine. I was a six out of 10, which means i do a little bit of due diligence yeah the returns risk was eight out of ten okay which means i expect very very high returns right uh for the investments that i that i make which is why i went into some of the businesses that i did yes yep yeah but then then there's a

line in the sand there so once you make that investment then there's the risk profile post investment yes which is your volatility risk profile and your management risk profile yes Yes. My volatility was 10 out of 10. Really? Yep. And my management was 5 out of 10. Wow.

Which means that I've got a very, very high volatility rate. Yes. Which means I won't switch out of investments. Yep. Yep. And I won't manage them terribly well. So what it showed me when I did it, I disagreed with it when I first read it. As we all do.

Yeah. So I took it to Darren. and I went, Darren, mate, this can't be right. And he goes, tell me the last lots of investments that you sold. I just went, sorry. Crickets. And to this day, I still haven't sold those biotechs. So the key is if you get the right people to manage it for you,

you're going to be okay. That's what that's telling me. That's the bit. So now in the business world and the switching out of assets, I now switch out of assets in my business life. Yes. So switching out of assets is if a client's not working because it's not quite a match, switch out.

Don't try and – So colour your clients that aren't working. Yeah, I colour code my clients. Okay. I do that. I colour code them. I colour code everything. You need a pen with about 10 colours on it, I reckon.

Yeah, yeah. And then I also have other people that manage it better than me. So manage the relationships better than me. Yes. Because I like to keep moving on to the next thing. So, I'm one that's good at passing, not account managing. Yeah. Okay.

So, it's just knowing where it is you're up to. But I will do a lot of investment in doing due diligence on a client before they come on. Yes. And I get them to do the same. So, it takes a couple of months for that to happen. Yeah, great. And then I have really, really high expectations of what we can achieve together. Yes.

So, I have to lower that. Gotcha. Right. Right, so that therefore everyone's happy. Yeah, okay, okay. So by knowing your risk and return means you can see your own patterns. Yes, that's the mirror again, isn't it? And therefore you can change it.

Yes. Now, I've seen some doozies on these risk profiles. I bet. So one of the risk profiles that I saw was the due diligence risk profile was almost zero, was two. Okay, so they didn't buy anything. Yeah, but the returns expectation was like nine. The volatility was two. So they're going to sell it at the drop of a hat.

And the management was nine. Control freaks that are going to get in there. So as soon as you see this profile, you go, this person has no money. And they don't. And the reason why is because they don't do any due diligence. They expect it's going to be the best thing ever. Overnight it's going to be rich. As soon as they find out that there's something wrong with it, they switch out.

And if they don't, they try and manage that. Sprangle it. So it's like someone going and saying, oh, I've heard about these oil fields in Iraq. I'm going to invest. So they invest all their super without any due diligence. Then they work out Iraq's actually in war. So then they go, oh, my God, that's a war. So then they try and get it all out.

And then so they take two cents in the dollar. Yeah, of course. Or they manage the absolute crap out of the person and hound them until they get their money back. Yeah, exactly. It's the classic story of the tortoise and the hare, which I often talk about in property. The successful property investors are the ones who see investing as boring, but they spend a lot of time early to do their due diligence, get the right result, and then they get out of the way.

And then they let others manage that asset who are good at doing that. So what I often say to investors in that class is, your role is to manage the managers. That is your – it's a bit like an AFL or a rugby team. It's probably rugby up here. I'm an AFL man. Investing is an elite team sport, and you need the best players in each position who are then combining with the other players. But guess what?

You aren't one of the players. You own the team, and you've got your master coaches, and then you've got your on-field players. But if you try and DIY, reinvent the wheel, which a lot of property investors think, well, I own a home. How hard is it? I'll just go and buy a bunch of homes

and then wonder why it is a disaster. It is a business. And a business is a team effort. Did you find the same on the business side of the equation? Absolutely. So the key element to growth is capability. Yes. Yeah.

So you've got to look and build capability. So, capability is being built by understanding, well, what's the concept that sits behind it? Yes. Then how does the strategy work? And then how do I implement this? Yes. So, if I'm looking to outsource anything, I look for capability. Right.

Okay. So, have they done it before? Yeah. Can they articulate how this all works? Yeah, brilliant. Do they have processes in place? Yes. Can they duplicate themselves?

Yeah. So, I'm always looking for capability and process. Yeah. Yeah, brilliant. Now, when you've got a team outsourced that's got capability and process, then you're going to spend less time doing it. Exactly. So it goes back to that time cost quality thing again.

Yes, it does. Yeah, spot on. So it's either you're going to invest your time in it and make it your investment in time and you're going to learn how to do it, or you're going to make a decision that, no, I'm not going to invest my time in doing this. I'm going to go hire someone or contract someone else to do it. Yes. And then if you can contract people on success fees or you contract them on...

Yeah, so it's performance-based or value-based. Performance-based is the best way to incentivise everyone. Yeah. And that's the way you go. Yeah, and that's exactly the approach that we take on the property fund. It's making sure that we've got proven players. And when I'm talking players, I'm talking about a good accountant, a good financial planner, someone on the property side who understands the strategy piece.

also structures the finance they become your master coaches and then the next layer around that the people like your project managers your buyers agents your property managers and then the next layer around that are your builders your conveyances your lawyers your yeah and just in that one like that last 30 seconds you've explained exactly how complex any industry is Yeah, true. Very true. So every industry is complex. And whoever's got the best players, whoever's got the best team,

so you've got a team of 15 you just mentioned there. Yeah. You've got a rugby team. Yeah, absolutely. And therefore you're sitting on the outside of your funding that rugby team. But the thing is – You're Russell Crowe. Yeah, yeah.

But if everyone's going for you and everyone's doing it for the winning of the team, which they all then get remunerated, which then means you get remunerated. Everyone wins. Everyone wins. Yeah, spot on. And it leverages that capability. So you're not having to reinvent the wheel and make mistakes that we spoke about right at the start.

So business is no different. Yeah, that's awesome. You've got to have people that know how to productize. You've got to have people that know how to do partnerships. You're going to need people that know how to open up opportunities, close opportunities, people that know how to service it. Yeah. So we're all here.

We're all beautifully different. Yes. We've all got our talents. So it's just all about working out who fits which talent in which position. Yeah, coming back to your discussion about the mirror exercise and the accountability importance on a personal level, from the experience I've had, you're very good at creating accountability for those that you're helping

through the processes and the people you introduce. Talking on a personal level, how do you keep yourself accountable? So I haven't been good at that. Okay. So I've had to create the system and create the process that means that I can be accountable but that I don't have to be. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, right. That's good. So if you look at a lot of really successful people come out of the military. Yes. Yes. And it's because they've got a discipline about them. Of course. Yeah, of course.

And a structure that goes with it. They've got a structure that goes with it. Whereas I came out of school, I went to a uni that was fairly loose, had a lot of good times, wasn't exactly accountable and wasn't very structured. Right, right. So, but I fell on my feet when I started working for the corporates, but I still also worked on shortcuts. Yeah, okay, okay.

So, which isn't a bad thing. So, testing the edges, that's a great thing. Which isn't a bad thing. I just wasn't creative on that, but still, I wasn't still taking full responsibility. Okay. I didn't really start taking that until I was close to my 40s or in my 40s. Yeah, okay. So it's only been a recent thing that I've really woken up about this.

Yeah. So what have you done then that's… So what I then did is I said, well, I need a tool. And I looked around for tools and the best tools I had were right in front of me. I just wasn't using them properly. You're right. Okay. And so therefore I repackaged the tools that I had in front of me into a different format

that made more sense to me. Yes, that worked for you. That work for me. Okay. And it's what I call the growth metrics. Yes. Can you share those for me? Yeah, so what I've worked out is, and I'm sure there's plenty of people listening to

this that know this already, but maybe not. They probably don't do it, most of us. Well, if you want to change something, you've got to first measure it. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, but quite often, we don't know what to measure. So in business, we don't know what to measure. Good call. All right.

And then when I went around and asked everyone, I said, how do you measure your time? They said, well, I don't know. I said, how do you measure your money? And they said, well, profit and cash in the bank, which actually can be false lit measures. That's the old accounting measures, yeah. And there's no measurement for capability. No. And what I had in front of me was I have measurements for time.

Yes. I have measurements for money and capacity. And I know how to measure capability. Yeah, exactly. And I said, why aren't I packaging that up? Yes, absolutely. So what I then did is I gave myself an uppercut and decided to repackage it and really redo what I was doing.

And like, by the way, I was going okay. Yeah, of course. I have no doubt about that. It wasn't that I wasn't doing it. No. But I wasn't reaching my potential. That extra level of discipline. It was the extra level of discipline of really being able to make a difference.

And creating what I call the happy habits or those daily disciplines that's going to make sure that it's all heading in the right direction. Yeah, brilliant. So is that something that the growth metrics that you're talking about, people can actually access themselves? Yeah, yeah. Well, if you go to timdwyeronline.com, you go down there, there's a brochure there.

It's a very basic brochure. Sure. I run a webinar where I explain to people how it works. Yeah. But what I show them how to actually colour their world and use colour to measure what they're doing. Yes. and then show them how to change it quite quickly.

As soon as I've showed the people the framework around it and how to do it, change becomes really easy. I bet. Then I show them how to measure their money and measure capacity. Yep. So measure their potential. Yes. So once you measure the potential

and you can see what percentage you are against potential, that's where the uppercut comes. I bet. A big wake-up moment. It's a big wake-up moment. You go, oh my God, I didn't realise that I could possibly do that. and then then as a result of that they go well how do i do that and then there's a process for building skill bring it uh and then when people know that the process for building skill isn't

that hard either it's just a simple process um then they can then start building the disciplines yes the disciplines in this world it's not a hard thing it's an easy thing you want you want to do it yes as opposed to being whipped to do it yeah exactly a lot of people see discipline as i'm being forced to do something i'm being told that this is i've been told yes yes yes yes so so then what i created was um there's some people in the world that love um running process and project management and stuff like that that's not me i'm more of the creative type yes um and so so therefore i brought uh rebecca in to do that component yep and then she just drives me which i love yeah brilliant because it means that she just keeps me in check i don't have to think

about a whole lot of stuff she says tim we've got to do this this okay fantastic right uh so then she projects, manages me, and I don't have to go to the effort of working out how the hell do I project manage me. Yeah, brilliant. So that's your own internal accountability in essence. Yeah, but what I do is I go find someone to do that. Yeah, exactly. Recognize the need, find the person, fix the problem.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, brilliant. Brilliant, okay. That's sensational. So again, I'll put that in the show notes for those that are interested in taking up on that because I can see it as being transformational. Let's jump into the future for a minute. And can you share with us what does the end game look like for you?

And more importantly, what are you going to invest in between now and then to make that happen? Okay. So I've got a risk and return matrix at home. Of course you do. You've got a matrix for everything. I do have a matrix for everything. So I've got a relatively high risk profile. Right.

So my risk profile is 8.3 out of 10. Wow, okay. Yeah. Through the GFC, it came back a bit. Sure. So it came back to 7. Okay. That's still pretty high.

So then it edges up towards the 8.3 again. So my business is a fairly significant asset class. Absolutely. And then I'm going to be investing more in property. Okay. So I'm getting that strategy put together. What sort of property, can I ask? What's your thinking around the property side at this point?

Okay, so I'm actually thinking of – if my wife's listening to this. I've dobbed you in there, mate. It's okay, blame me. Yeah, this is just a thought at the moment. I haven't written down the strategy. Sure. But at some point, we're going to need to move into another house. Yes.

And I'm not going to buy that house. Right. Good. I'm going to rent it great but what I'm going to do access for lifestyle own assets

I reckon that's and that's exactly how my wife and I operate that's what that's what I'm going to do so I'm going to I'm going to go lease the bigger house

brilliant you could never get the returns absolutely the rent will be a fraction of a mortgage and you've got the horsepower to put into something else

well maybe not okay because a lot of times we want security so I'm going to take a long term lease on a house yeah

right so a five year lease yep which will get the kids through the rest of their school. And then have all the investment properties out there that are earning the income. Absolutely. And they will be at a different asset class within the property class. Brilliant.

So that's that one there. And then I'm going to have a bit of a punt on the cryptocurrency. Yeah, okay. I'm going to talk to you about that because a lot of our investors are coming back to me saying, what's this crypto business? And I say, park this space. I'm going to do the due diligence to let you know

how good it is what the risk is what the volatility of that risk is going to be based on volumes and then how much of your hard-earned based on how your risk profile is should you throw at this thing yeah because it's it's a bit like with i can see why it would appeal to you because it's massive potential reward but giving it's a growing market it's going to go up and down like a bride's naughty it's got so it's got so far to go it is this is the wild west right now absolutely yeah so um investors beware is what my comment is but the thing is there's going to be there's going to be some massive wins yeah uh and and those people that bought google yes uh when it was five bucks totally uh do you know anyone uh no i don't actually yeah neither do i but no but

I'm sure they're out there. They're not spending – that's right. But the thing is, the Googles of these world, when they come in, but the people that bought it at $50, $100, they're all doing really, really well. Absolutely. So it's like you don't have to be the first in. No.

But I am doing my due diligence on it at the moment. I've got friends that are doing their due diligence on it. I'm going to compare notes with you on that. Yeah, yeah. I just think have a look at it. Be careful. Yeah. Do the due deal.

I agree. and if there's some risk money what I say to people I had someone ring me last week and say hey Bushy I'm going to get into this Bitcoin thing and I said okay if you're going to jump in

without doing the due diligence here's what I suggest assume you're going to put money that you're never going to get back and if you lose that and that doesn't make any difference to your life no problems at all

you go for broke but if it goes bad and you lose a lot and that's going to have a big impact on you then you need to think carefully about that yeah absolutely

so again I'm no financial planner I'm not a share expert So if you look at portfolio management, so if people want to draw a line, so you draw an L shape. Yep. Yep. And you number zero down where the…

Apex is. The apex is. Yep. And then you draw a 10 at the other end. Yep, on the horizontal line. On the horizontal line. Gotcha. Yep.

Yep. so so when you so zero to ten I'm just writing this so I can remember yeah yeah you then go what do you reckon your risk profile is right so for me I'll be saying I'll be about an eight so you've been an out about an eight which is a high high risk profile yeah yeah most people that work in stable jobs and that sort of stuff they'll normally have a risk profile less than five right right to run a business you want to have a risk profile over seven right because you're You've got to take a lot of knocks. Of course, it's going to be up and down.

It's going to be ups and downs. Yes. If I see someone with a risk profile less than seven and they're going to go start a business, I'll sort of say, look... They'll strangle it. Well, it's okay. No, they can still be successful.

They just have to be aware that they're going to be really outside their comfort zone. Yes. Yes, and be able to sleep with it. Yes. That's all. Yeah, that's it. Right.

So it's just about understanding how uncomfortable do you want to be. Yes. Yes. So therefore then, if you're, say, risk profile eight, what you want to do is you want to have the average a little bit less than eight.

Yes. So therefore, you'll have some secure, secure assets that might be around the threes and the fours. Which might be your property side of the portfolio. Which is your property side of the portfolio. Yep. And then you'll have a little bit of money. Yes, in the bitcoins.

In the bitcoins and the cryptocurrency that's got the possibility to go 10 times. Yep. But the other property, the lower risk, will give you a steady return rather than 100% return. Yeah, brilliant. But the two balance each other out. Yeah, fantastic.

Right? Yes, yes. So there's some built-in diversification with that, which is fantastic. That's what funds managers do. They look at their portfolios and they'll look at the risk profile of their clients and then they'll match the returns against what their clients' expectations are. And the time frame put in there because the investment horizon has a massive impact on risk as well. Correct, absolutely.

Just picking up on something you've mentioned, and I commend you on this, Tim, because we're in a similar boat and I talk to a lot of people about the rent-vesting opportunity and this affordability crisis that the media loves hammering the pollies about and the pollies then knee-jerk and hammer the banks about and the banks then demonise investors and they jack the investment rates up

and it doesn't solve anything because the investors are only less than 30% of the market. I just had a rant then. drilling that back what i love about what you're about to do is and not many people can get over their egos to do this by the way is to take that philosophy of access lifestyle invest in assets and the rent what's class is rent vesting i'm sure you've heard of it i think is the answer to the generation trying to get onto the property ladder because live where you want at a rent that's a fraction of a mortgage but invest your

capacity in properties and locations they're going to grow and structure them so it doesn't cost you anything which you can do yeah what you're saying is exactly the same thing you're going to live in the in the place and the property that you want to yep and yes okay the lease might be expensive but i'll guarantee you if you bought that property and and borrowed most of the money to do it the the holding cost of that would be significantly higher than what you're going to do on a long-term lease but what it does to you is free up the capacity with what you're doing to invest in in these other opportunities your business the property and and the the cryptocurrency uh without putting a noose around your neck tying yourself to a property where you're living on

baked beans and dog food and i've seen people do it on the belief that we've got to own our home and then we'll invest we'll retire on our super and a pension if we can get it and then then get to 55 and suddenly go my god uh life's looking pretty grim uh fully commend what you're doing in that regard and there aren't enough I think that have been smart enough to recognise that as a real opportunity so it took me a while to work it out

so where were you years ago Bushy hiding away in South Australia doing it myself and not talking to enough people which is where KPI has been an awesome amplifier for us I wouldn't have met you if it hadn't been for the KPI program that's just been sensational

okay I've used up a lot of your time. If we were to boil down three takeaways, so given your expertise, if someone was to want to start seeing their business or a business as a growth asset opportunity for them, what are the three things that they should be doing now? So first thing is, is this before they do it

or whilst they're on it? Perhaps both. Okay, before they do it, they need to do due diligence. It's like any investment. They've got to do their due diligence and they've got to have a look at, well, what is the investment? What's the return? Second thing is then once they've done that and they believe they've got a business opportunity where there's a gap in the market or there's a proven need for it. Yes.

Then it's about, okay, jumping into it but taking the philosophy of responsibility. Yes. Yeah. Right. So there is no such thing as blame game in this world in terms of if you want to get a return on investment and you want to succeed, a business and an individual needs to take responsibility

for the whole, all of it. The entire supply chain, the staff they hire, the contractors they bring in. Even when it stuffs up, if you take it back, it's a decision that you made or I made, right? Yes. So the second philosophy. so first philosophy do your research and do your due diligence right second thing is take

responsibility for everything that happens yep all right yep uh shit happened sorry um you can edit that out um stuff happens right so there are external factors that you've got to take into consideration sure i didn't create the gfc no right um how how i responded to it i did yes Exactly right. Right? Yeah, spot on. So I could sit in my office and blame the fact that the market's gone down or I could change my product mix and move with what the current market was.

Opportunity was. Yes. So I get lots of people that blame economies. I get lots of people that blame macro events. Well, in actual fact, no, it still comes back to me. Yeah, absolutely right. Yeah, spot on. So that's the second thing.

So first thing, due diligence. Second thing is responsibility. Yeah. Third thing is get your infrastructure right. Right. the infrastructure is the foundations for growth yes right the infrastructure around how you utilize your time yeah how you utilize your money yeah and how you build your skill whether it be the delivery of the product that you're going out to sell yeah or deliver yeah

or whether it be the infrastructure for how you actually plan your growth out yes where you're going to spend your money yeah and most importantly where you spend your time and how you value your Yeah, absolutely. If someone was wanting to read something or get their hands on something that would help them with that journey, whether it be something that you're offering or other, what should they be doing there? Well, so I haven't got a lot of this online yet.

Right. So a lot of – if you do some research, you will find bits of this. Okay. But I'm doing more and more of these conversations like with yourself and with Glenn from Dent. Yes. and I have put in it but what I've done is

because we used to we for the last 10-15 years we've just worked with the bigger clients like clients from 5 mil through to 500 mil

right and we work in it's very quiet so it's referral only gotcha not a lot of promotional materials stuff like that

yes it wasn't until after I did the Dent podcast that everyone was saying can we get that can we get that absolutely I've listened to it

8 times by the way it was that good it was awesome gold well Well, so what I've done is I've put it into a short program. Right. So the foundation side or the infrastructure side of things,

I've put it into a 90-day change program. Brilliant. I've put it into a planner. Brilliant. So people can read it. So people can access that if they want. They can go to my website and... Just repeat what that is.

I know you've mentioned it already. It's timdwyeronline.com. Great. So they can either get access to a one-day workshop. Yeah. They can get the planner. they can come on a 90-day change program i'll also be releasing a whole lot of this information next year through more social media stuff i've never had to do that before because we've been

referral only yes of course a whole new world i'm on the same journey as you yeah same um so yeah so uh so yeah so you'll see more and more of it out there um and uh yeah we'll get it out there and if people are interested just uh send me a note through the website and um uh we'll get back Well, I'll certainly be encouraging people to do that because I've got enormous value out of what I've had the opportunity to enjoy from you so far, Tim. Really appreciate you spending some time with me today. I know there'll be a lot of people who will be contacting me to say, how can I get on to Tim? So I'll be making sure that we make that as easy as possible for them. Thanks again for your time today.

Thanks, Bushy. I would be very keen to revisit this discussion with you on the property journey in particular. Yeah, absolutely. And with the concept that you're going down leasing the penthouse or whatever it might be. I just don't want to tell my wife yet. Yeah, well, what I'll do is I won't release this podcast until you've spoken to her, mate.

So you'll be pretty safe there. But thanks, Tim. It's been awesome to have a chat. Okay, thanks, mate. Thanks. Bye. Well, Freedom Fighters, how good was that? To get a summary of all this investment gold in the show notes,

just email me on hello at khgroup.com.au. That's H-E-L-L-O at khgroup.com.au or check us out at www.bushymartin.com.au forward slash Get Invested. I look forward to joining you next week for another episode of the Get Invested podcast. So thanks for listening. And as always, dream as if you live forever

and live as if you die tomorrow. you Thank you.