Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Get Invested:Terry Ryder on creating your future by hot spotting

Episode Date: July 11, 2020

If you’re always looking through the rear view mirror, you can’t see the road ahead. So the ability to identify future outperforming hotspots by being borderless and adopting a national property approach has and is becoming increasingly important, especially if you want to join the ranks of the sustainably successful 5% - because 80% of the growth of a property comes from its location and a minor difference in the growth rate between one location and another can make hundreds of thousands of dollars of difference to the value of your property nest egg over time. And the best person to assist you in finding these future outperforming hotspots is today’s guest Terry Ryder. Terry is recognised as Australia’s number one independent real estate analyst. He’s the founder of hotspotting.com.au that has been informing investors and property buyers on the best places to buy property based on in-depth, forward looking research since 2006.   In a sea of property media mediocrity, Terry’s been a specialist researcher/writer on residential property for over 35 years and has published four highly acclaimed and popular books. He’s regularly interviewed by television, radio and print media on real estate issues, and is widely sought after as a public speaker.  His regular ‘top hot spot’ reports interpret masses of forward forecasting data and his hotspotting team condenses it into easily readable and digestible reports that help you make good informed property buying decisions. And today Terry shares his informed, realistic and reliable thoughts on the current top 10 future hot spot locations around Australia and why, so you get a free peak into his most recent highly valuable Top 10 Best Buys property report. We also get his thoughts on:  The key drivers that create future hotspots The three main phases of growth of a location and when best to invest His thoughts on the secrets to property investment success and we also share our thoughts on the mainstream media and where you really need to get the facts on property instead of the fear mongering fiction. If you’re generally interested in buying back your time and creating your future ideal lifestyle using property as part of your wealth by stealth strategy, then you’re going to really enjoy this chat with Terry Ryder. Terry's book recommendation: The War of Art by Steven Pressfield Get Invested is the podcast dedicated to time poor professionals who want to work less and live more. Join Bushy Martin, one of Australia’s top 10 property specialists, as he and his influential guests share know-how on the ways investing in property can unlock the life you always dreamed about and secure your financial future. Remember to subscribe on your favourite podcast player, and if you're enjoying the show please leave us a review. Find out more about Get Invested here https://bushymartin.com.au/get-invested-podcast/  Want to connect with Bushy? Get in touch here https://bushymartin.com.au/contact/  This show is produced by Apiro Media - http://apiropodcasts.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There was a guy called Dr. Joe Dispenza, and one of the things that he said was the best way to predict your future is to create it. Too many people sit around waiting for things to happen, but his philosophy very much is get out and create it. A hotspot is, in very simple terms, a place that's going to outperform the general market, and that's what investors are looking for, and so are homebuyers as well. I mean, ideally, they'd like to own a home in an area that's going to grow in value and outperform. so that's what we're looking for the future outperformance there's not much point in doing what media does which generally tells people where they should have invested one or two years ago welcome to the get invested podcast where we share great conversations with experts from all walks of life to uncover their secret know-how and where they invest their time

their skills and their money and the benefits that this has created you see the truth is that Everyone invests. Every minute of every day, we're investing our time, our skills, our energy, and our money in something. Some of us are investing consciously, some unconsciously, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad, sometimes for no impact. Get Invested will help you to start living by design, not by default. I'm going to help you to make it happen, not let it happen. You'll hear the top tips on how you can live with conscious intent so that you can live more, work less and leave a living legacy by investing now. Listen to the show to discover the top tips on how to get started, make the most of your investment journey and ultimately to be living

your dream, not someone else's. More episodes can be found on iTunes or at bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. Thanks for listening and now let's get invested. hi bread and fighters are you creating your future or are you just using the excuse of being too busy or time poor to just wait for things to happen or just letting things happen and if you're ready to invest in creating your future how can you create it if property is something you're interested in investing to create your future? How do you find the hot spots that will help you to fund your future and to make it all happen? Today I want to help you to tackle these important questions by showing you how. I'm going to start by

taking you on my own personal journey of discovery so that you can get inside my head to give you a hands-on example of my thinking, what I did, why and how I've done it, and how this has helped us create the awesome lifestyle that we enjoy today. To give you a summary of the step-by-step process that my book The Freedom Formula takes you through, to help you achieve your version of freedom, to give you a taste of the living by design process that will help you to create your ideal future, instead of continuing to live by default and to wait for your life to happen. Today, we'll pull together all of the threads that I've touched on in past episodes to give you a framework and a GPS

that you can follow to create and sustain your ideal lifestyle. And I stress that this is not a prescription. I'm not suggesting you mimic the specifics of what I've done unless it feels right and it works for you and your circumstance. But it does give you the approach that has worked well for me and for many others. Now over the last few weeks we've focused on the importance of time. We've talked about the fact that sustainable success in anything takes time. To play the long game and embrace time as your friend with the expectation that enduring success is going to take a minimum of 10 and more likely 15 plus years. So embrace this and enjoy the journey. We've talked about the immediate ways of getting time back and slowing

time down. We discussed about how you can get some time back by investing your time to free time up. About making the time now to use the time you have to free up your time long term. Last week we talked with Lacey Filipic about becoming time rich through financial independence. I related how true fulfilment only comes when you give freely to others without expecting anything in return. That you can only do this when you have the freedom of time on your hands and that in our Western world, you only have time on your hands if your income needs are being met without relying on you to generate it.

In other words, from ongoing passive income, not from your active work income where you're forced to trade your time for money. Now, I know what you're thinking. Yeah, this is all really inspiring and motivating, Bushy. but how do I actually do it? Where do I start? What do I do and why? How do I really get time back and free up my time permanently? So let me be your guinea pig today so that you can apply the principles of my approach in a way that works for you. To start my journey on freeing up my time, let's start by going back in time. You see, just over 20 years ago, I was a workaholic architect

for an international design firm. I was running offices across Australia and Asia. I was in charge of designing award-winning projects like the Ayers Rock Resort and the Adelaide Exhibition Hall. On the outside, I looked like I was living the dream. But on the inside, it was absolutely killing me. I was working relentlessly seven days a week, 14 hours a day with no time for anything or anyone else but work.

Work was everything. My sole interest and my sole income. I mistakenly believed that if I just worked hard enough, fortune and fame would follow. My workaholism and my blind ambition ended up costing me my marriage, my family, my health and my wealth. I ended up burnt out, broke and broken. After 17 years of dedication to architecture,

I was left with nothing other than my old car and my cassette collection. In my mid-30s, I had to start again from nothing. I didn't have two cents to rub together. I just couldn't believe that I ended up there and I was absolutely determined to learn from this and not to make the same mistakes again. I withdrew from the world like a hermit for two years and used the excuse of doing my MBA to re-evaluate what I needed to do differently. I jokingly refer to this now as my Howard Hughes years. Now during that time, my new partner Sonia and I spent a wintry Sunday afternoon sitting by the fire over a bottle of red wine at a cosy home-souled restaurant in Clarendon.

And we painted a vivid word picture and a vision of exactly how we wanted to live in line with our values, our ideal future lifestyle, where we were living, what we were doing, with who and when. My personal core values, the things that are really important to me, are all captured in the word humility. The quality that I most admire but unfortunately now rarely see. Humility, you know, being unpretentious, respectful, unassuming, not seeking recognition. I then break humility down into the following core values using each letter of the word humility. So H is for harmony, which is about calm, peaceful, tranquil, serene, solitude, fun and freedom.

U is for uniqueness. That's being original, creative, clever, different, and stylish. M is for motivated and in the moment. It's about being optimistic, passionate, fit, and healthy, focusing on high performance. I is for integrity. And that's about honesty, being principled, staying true to values, and having the courage to say no.

L is for loyalty. That's about being certain, dependable, trustworthy, persistent, and determined. The I is for inspiration, and it's about continuous learning. I love it. T is for thoroughness. That's about being punctual, prepared, and having attention to detail. And finally, the Y is for yes, which is about acceptance without judgment or criticism. So what are your core values, as this is your starting point?

Now, in our case, our personal values feed into what we call our know-how goal values, where goal breaks down into G for generosity, which is about giving freely without expecting anything in return. O is for openness and acceptance. L is for leadership by helping others to lead their way. And D is for diversity, which is about celebrating our differences. Of course, no right or wrong answers exist with your values. You may have a handful of non-negotiable values or a lot of things that are fundamental to you. And you don't necessarily have to sum them up using a handy acronym, which you'll have noticed already I use a lot of these because it's the only way I can remember them.

It is, however, important to stop and crystallise what's important to you so you can measure choices, decisions and options against them so that they're aligned with your personal integrity which in turn affects your level of self-esteem and belief. Now from personal experience I can tell you that if you're not doing things in alignment with your fundamental values and your core beliefs, this continuous compromise will eat at your subconscious and it'll hamstring your progress in all aspects of your lives. Conversely, if your actions and associations are aligned, magic happens exponentially. now our values form the basis and the compass for our life vision so using my architectural

design skills of starting with a vision of the end in mind and then working backwards to the steps that we need to take to build it we saw ourselves living and working on a hillside homestead rural retreat with long range uninterrupted natural views surrounded by a rescue smiling samoyed dogs enjoying the time to meditate and reflect to eat healthy keep fit play hockey, to sing and play the piano, to learn, read and write every day, to travel and experience the world and new places every year, to help others to create happy homes and to help eliminate homelessness for those that have no choice and have no voice. We wrote down a diary of our perfect day, our perfect week, month and year and it was

about what we were seeing, feeling, hearing, tasting, touching and engaging all of the senses. I wrote my perfect day while Sonia wrote a letter to her mum in 10 years time. I then created a vision board with pictures of everything we wanted to do on it and had multiple copies stuck all over the house, on the bed head, on the fridge, next to my decks, on the bathroom mirror and in my favourite contemplation room, the toilet of course. And it drove Sonia crazy. I wanted to remind myself day in day out of how we were going to live our life. And then I wrote and recorded an affirmation and a vision statement on my mobile and I listened to it every morning as I was getting dressed. And as I started

and finished every day, I did it with meditating and imagining us living it and giving thanks to our awesome life as if it had already happened and really immersing myself in how good it felt. Those feelings of gratitude, love, joy and freedom that all combined to warm your heart and put a massive smile on your face. Even though we had nothing and we're starting again from absolutely scratch at that time. Now I didn't really realize it then just how powerful this happy habit was to become but looking back this was very magnetic and transformational And if you want to learn this skill properly to fast track the materialisation and the manifestation of your future vision, just like elite athletes mentally rehearse their wins, reach out to Australia's world leading intuitive Craig Wilson at www.craigwilson.com. And that's Craig with an H, so it's C-R-A-G-H Wilson.com.

And have a read of his Amazon bestselling book, Intuitive. You can also check out Dr. Joe Dispenza's work that was mentioned in the intro on YouTube, along with his book, Becoming Supernatural. Now, this isn't weird and woo-woo, because I know from experience that what we think about and what we feel about is what we bring about. And if you want some inspiration on how you can start

creating the vision of your life by design, I'll give you a bunch of options in Chapter 14 of my book, The Freedom Formula. or have a read of the book Living Forward for other approaches. But don't skip this fun and fundamental step as this becomes your life magnet and your compass. Then we monetised our mission of our ideal lifestyle and we answered the question, how much is enough?

With the help of a good accountant, we worked out how much our ideal lifestyle would cost a year, what we now call our lifestyle income as part of our freedom numbers. This is the amount of passive income a year we needed to create to free our time so we could enjoy this lifestyle. And our lifestyle income was $200,000 a year. And we wanted to be living this in 20 years' time, what we call our break-free timeline. To achieve this passive income lifestyle income, we worked out that we needed to build a portfolio of income-producing assets results in a nest egg of $4 to $5 million in 20 years. And that's what we now call your nest egg

number. This is based on getting a 4 to 5% income return from that nest egg. Now this was a big wake up call as we only had about $150,000 in super at the time, which was only projected to grow to about $600,000 over the next 20 years. And that was going to give us a stop-work income of only $27,000 a year. Now, that was less than the full pension of just under $35,000 a year, if you can actually get it. And this reinforced that just paying off the home loan and putting money into super was going to leave us in poverty when we tried to stop work, and we'd be forced to work until the day we dropped dead. So this meant that our nest egg was still a minimum of three and a half million dollars short in 20 years time

which is what we now call the gap but subtracting inflation and bring it back to today today's dollars meant we were about 1.2 million dollars short at the time this was our freedom number 1.2 million dollars which was approximately two to four properties excluding the family home of course because the family home doesn't put income in your pocket it actually cost you money. We were instantly motivated to start investing. What about you? What are your freedom numbers? If you want to find out, feel free to email me on bushey at khgroup.com.au with your contact details and we'll be happy to get in touch to run your freedom number forecast for free so you know where you're at and what you need to do.

our next questions were where do we get the money and what do we invest in to grow this nest egg and create this passive income and how do we get started when we're starting from scratch from with nothing and not much time to do it we immediately put in place a savings plan where we saved 30 of everything we earned we paid ourselves first by locking away our savings and living off what was left. This was the prehistoric precursor to what has now become our kick-ass automatic saver system that I've talked about previously, and I also detail in the Freedom Formula. The next questions revolved around what we should invest in. Shares, property, a business, multi-level marketing, not likely, all of the above. What first and when?

I wasn't sure which way to go so I started by investing in my knowledge I started reading every investment and related book I could get my hands on and there weren't many good ones at the time remembering that in the 90s the internet was only just kicking off and we didn't have Google or YouTube to instantly access information books like Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom by Van Tharp,

along with the Australian books Making Money Made Simple by Noel Whittaker, who's written some great books over the years, and Paul Clitheroe's Making Money. I also read Chris Tate's The Art of Trading, and of course, my all-time favourite at that stage, was Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki. Now today there are podcasts, YouTubes, audiobooks, you name it, it's all on tap. There's almost too much information, so it's difficult to weed out the wheat from the chaff,

and it's very easy to get confused by the complexity. Now, I've mentioned which other books you should add to your list on a previous episode, but if you want a book that pulls all of the good stuff together from these books together in one place, I'm going to give you an absolutely, totally biased, shameless plug for my book, The Freedom Formula. And as a Get Invested listener, if you want a free copy of my Get Invested book, which is actually the first part of the Freedom Formula, just type in the link khgroup.pages.ontraport.net forward slash get slash invested slash free slash ebook.

Fill in your details and it'll be on its way. It's part of the reason I wrote it, to help you replace confusion with clarity and a step-by-step process to follow. Now, about that time, a mate of mine, Tully Anderson, scored us free tickets to go and see Robert Kiyosaki live in Adelaide at a Rich Dad Poor Dad conference. It was a major lightbulb moment,

what I now refer to as my Kiyosaki conversion. He said that the moment you make passive income a part of your life, your life will change, and it absolutely, totally resonated. We needed to get invested by creating an income that didn't rely on us, so we had the free time to really enjoy the life we were dreaming of. Overnight, I started to see the world completely differently. We immediately became what I now jokingly refer to as passive-aggressive. We became aggressive about passive income.

Everything we invested our time, our energy and our money in from that moment on had to produce passive income that didn't rely on us to produce. It had to be safe and affordable. it had to grow in value and it had to be saleable. All of my reading confirmed that the 5% who achieve sustainable success all take 15 years plus. The growth is an exponential uphill curve, meaning that very little growth occurs in the first 8 to 10 years.

They separate what they do from how they earn, they create multiple streams of income and they focus more on the principles, the process and the right people than the final product, the product being the business, the shares or the property. Now reinforcing the long uphill nature of investing, I realised that if my high performance investment cycle is the vehicle that will get me to my net wealth destination in the quickest, safest and easiest fashion, I needed to assemble what I refer to as my investment gear set.

In bite terms, my gear set is a set of gears for transmitting motion for a specific purpose. So I needed to choose the best available gear assembly that'll easily transmit the power of my upward progress. Trying to ride up a steep hill is pointless if you're stuck in top gear, and you simply don't have the power and energy to keep the wheels turning. So against this gear set measuring stick, as a time poor career focused professional, anything we invested in needed to be g-e-a-r-s-e-t gear set where here we go again g is for growth focused offering high asset growth over the shortest possible time frame e is for easy to implement a is for affordable both low cost to established and affordable to hold ongoing

r is for risk averse so what i invest in must sit comfortably with my sleep at night factor S is for simple and quick to understand what I'm investing in. E is for equity low, so I use as little of my own money and or deposit as possible to secure the growth asset. And finally, T is for time efficient and effective. So it doesn't require much of my time to acquire, manage or monitor, and it doesn't create a second part-time job. For example, it only requires an hour or so a month plus two or three hours a year to monitor. so I can continue to spend my spare time with family and friends. Anything we decided to invest in then, and the way we invested in it,

needed to satisfy these gear set criteria, that is, simple and easy, time effective, low investment to start, low cost and high growth. So against this gear set measuring stick, cash savings were going backwards when inflation was taken into account, so they don't really add up. Super didn't have the growth levels or offer the level of control, and hidden management fees ate into the nest egg growth. Of course, we continued to put money into super because we had to,

but we put more energy into other opportunities. Starting a business offered good possibilities, but it was high risk, time consuming, and we needed an immediate source of steadying income to pay the bills in the meantime. Shares and property both offered very similar levels of growth over the long term. For example, combined ABS, AMP and Real Estate Institute records revealed that since 1926,

Australian shares have endured average capital growth of about 11.5%, while residential property has achieved 11.1% growth. You can actually split the hairs between them. So comparing these investment options against this gear set measuring stick, it became obvious that the best growth vehicle to achieve our freedom numbers in Australia was residential property. And here are the main reasons that we decided why. Firstly, property offers far superior leverage. The banks will still let you borrow up to 95% of the value of the property

versus half of that on margin loans with shares. And this also tells us that the banks see property as a much safer and a lower risk place to lend money. And we all know that banks don't like losing money or taking risks. you know using the power of leveraging the bank's money and as little of our money as possible we realized that we could double to triple the size of our nest egg through property over shares even if property was growing at a lower rate this meant that with the same level of initial investment of our own savings we could more than double the value of the asset we could secure in property

versus shares we also realized that residential property was a real need tangible asset and that people always have to live somewhere. And that housing is emotionally driven by the majority of owner-occupier homeowners. So all we need to do is just slipstream on this. We also had greater control and influence on the value of property by buying well, building well or renovating to manufacture value. And that property offered rental income consistency. It was also low risk and stable and was an imperfect asset in that every property in every street in every suburb is different. So it's impossible to compare apples with apples, which is quite unlike shares where everyone's operating on the same information instantly. We also learned over time that new

built homes on the right tightly held areas could be structured using stamp duty savings and tax appreciation incentives to make them actually cash flow positive. In other words, to put money in your pocket so that they could be affordable to hold long term and they didn't bite into your saving salary or criminal lifestyle. So we realised that rental homes were the best available, safest and most affordable way to grow our wealth. However, we had an initial challenge. As we were starting again with nothing, we just didn't have enough of a savings deposit to secure our first property, even though we were saving furiously. Now, if you already own a home, it's likely you won't have this problem as there's likely to be sleeping equity they can access without the need

for cash savings to help you secure your first property. But in our case we decided that Sonia would continue to earn a salary to pay the bills while I would start investing full-time to grow our savings. I decided to learn how to day trade shares and indexes to fast track our first property deposit. I borrowed five grand from my family to learn how to technically trade and after months of paper trading and backtesting a system. I short and long traded CFDs or contracts for difference instruments. I ended up needing to sit in front of a computer screen for a minimum of four hours a day just to do it justice. And I've got to tell you, it was a psychological rollercoaster ride as my system was based on having more losing trades than

winning trades, but still being profitable overall. There were times when I'd lose 30 grand overnight, even with all of the best available risk protections in place. But after months of blood, sweat and tears, we were able to put together the first deposit on a rental home in Aldinga Beach that we bought for the huge sum of $84,000. And we still have that property today and its last valuation was over $450,000. Now note that we were rent investors then before it was even a thing. We were renting a townhouse close to Adelaide City for Sonia's work, and our rental property was an hour south of the city on the beach. We stumbled upon the benefit of renting for lifestyle at the fraction of the cost of a

mortgage, while investing for growth in an area that we could afford, using an ownership and financing structure that meant that the property actually put money in our pockets instead of taking it out. We had the best of both worlds. And we now help many other hard-working Australians to enjoy the dual benefits of rent vesting their way to financial freedom. And thus our property portfolio was off and running. We then decided to start our own first passive income scalable and saleable business and Sonia and I swapped roles. I got a job with government as a program and project manager consultant to provide regular salaried income to pay the bills as well as allow us to continue to borrow money so we could add to our

property portfolio so that Sonia could then start and drive our own property management business. During this time we renovated our first Udinga rental home to increase its value and then borrowed against this to take that increased equity to leverage into other properties. Our strategy was to buy, build, rent and hold real homes for real families in tightly held demand lifestyle locations supported by new infrastructure with strong and growing employment and incomes, not units or apartments as they're better suited to the later cash flow stage, not the growth stage. And once our property management business was profitable and creating regular stable income, we then switched roles again so that Sonia became the

consistent income earner while I then started our passive income finance broking and property investment business. This pattern passing arrangement where one life partner fuels the income, while the other grows the passive investments, has been instrumental in our early success and it's actually worth considering, as it means that at least 50% of your combined effort is dedicated to growing your wealth through a combination of investment assets and all your own business. Now rolling forward to today, and Sonia and I both live and work together as life and business partners in beautiful rural properties in our know-how property finance business, having sold our rent roll and accumulating a sizeable property

portfolio. We now enjoy the fulfillment of helping others and have the freedom of time and choice to give back and pursue our passions because we're time rich and as a result of our multiple streams of passive income. We work when, where and because we want to, not because we have to. And I can't begin to describe the peace of mind and sense of freedom that this simple shift creates when you no longer need to worry or sell your time for money. Now don't get me wrong, both Sonia and I both continue to work hard and there are still times when we burn the early morning and the midnight oil. But this is because we want to make a difference and leave a dent, not because we're on the never-ending, ever-faster time for

money treadmill. And now we're shifting from the growth phase of our portfolio to the tax-effective cash flow stage, or what I refer to in my book as the capital growth to cash flow curve. as we move through the transition and conversion of the property nest egg into a diversified passive income mix across high-yielding rental properties, dividend income shares, index funds and cash reserves. You need to go from growth, then convert to cash flow, not the other way around, otherwise you're just never going to get there. Our investments and our lifestyle business team

allows us the luxury to give back in the form of this podcast, my books, media appearances and sustainable in the way that we can and want to do this indefinitely because we enjoy it and it's really rewarding. We're moving into what recent guest Paul Meek has called rewirement, not retirement, as we continue to pursue our passions. And as I look back on the vision board that we put together all of those years ago, I realise that we're now living all of our dreams.

We've predicted our future by creating it. Our vision has become reality and now I'm on a mission to help you and many other hard-working Australians to do the same because anyone with a consistent income can do it and I know that you can do it. This is the power of property and this is the power of living by design, not by default. So I hope that sharing the details of our journey

and our thinking and reasoning has helped you to start thinking about how you can begin living by design by growing your nest to create passive income that gives you time back to breathe and to do more of what's important to you and your loved ones. And as always, I want to challenge you to take the first step. So if you'd like to start educating yourself more on the why, the what and the how of living by design,

feel free to join us in our three-part Freedom Flight webinar education series. Just jump on knowhowproperty.com.au, hit the purple Get In Touch button, fill in the details with Freedom Flight webinars in the Tell Us What You Need box and hit Let's Talk. and I look forward to sharing more information with you so that you can make fully informed decisions with no pressure on what's right for you. Now, I need to reinforce here that I'm not an accountant or a financial planner.

So while I'm able to guide you on property and related lending matters, none of what I've shared today is intended or can be considered as financial advice. I'm merely sharing what we did and why we did it in a general way to give you a framework to consider. And of course, make sure you get independent advice from a licensed accountant or other professional to suit where you're at in your risk profile.

It's also important to emphasise at this point that a big part of creating our ideal lifestyle on the back of our property portfolio has resulted from the research we did on selecting properties and locations that proved to be future outperformers compared to the general market over time. those locations that today's guest calls future hotspots not past not spots and we're not talking

about the kind of hotspots that the mainstream media like to rave about we're talking about finding areas and buying or building properties based on future lead indicators not past lag indicators that most investors and most industry commentators in the media tend to focus on because you can't drive fast into the future if you're always looking through the rear view mirror You can't see the road ahead when you're always looking backwards and you're likely to run off the road or get detoured without even knowing it. And this ability to identify future outperforming hotspots by being borderless and adopting a national property approach

has and is becoming even more increasingly important if you want to join the ranks of the sustainably successful 5% because 80% of the growth of a property comes from its location and a minor difference in the growth rate between one location and another can make hundreds of thousands of dollars of difference to the value of your property nest egg over time. And the best person to assist you in finding these future outperforming hotspots is today's guest, Terry Ryder.

Terry is recognised as Australia's number one independent real estate analyst. He's the founder of hotspotting.com.au that's been informing investors and property buyers on the best places to buy property based on in-depth forward-looking research since 2006. In a sea of property media mediocrity, Terry's been a specialist researcher writer on residential property now for over 35 years and he's published four highly acclaimed and popular books. He's regularly interviewed by television, radio and print media on real estate issues

and he's widely sought after as a public speaker. his regular top hotspot reports interpret masses of forward forecasting data and his hotspotting team condenses it into easily readable and digestible reports that help you to make good informed property buying decisions and today terry shares his informed realistic and reliable thoughts on the current top 10 future hotspot locations around the country and why so you get a free peek into the most recent highly valuable top 10 best buyers property report We also share his thoughts on the key drivers that create future hotspots, the three main phases of growth of a location and when best to invest,

his thoughts on the secrets to property investment success, and of course, we share our thoughts on the mainstream media and where you really need to get the facts on property instead of the fear-mongering fiction. If you're generally interested in buying back your time and creating your future lifestyle, using property as part of your wealth by self strategy then you're going to really enjoy this down-to-earth straight talking realistic chat with terry rider welcome back freedom fighters now it doesn't matter where you are or who you're talking to it never ceases to amaze me how everyone's interested in what's happening with property

apart from sport it's our secret national pastime whether it be at the barbie or standing at the and everyone always wants to know where the next property hotspot is likely to be and where's the best place to buy. Well today we get to talk first hand to Terry Ryder, the man who's been informing Australians on future hotspots for over 15 years now and I've personally been listening carefully to his suggestions for over a decade. Now unlike many property commentators the difference with Terry is that he provides you with independent, informed, well-researched and realistic information that you can actually believe. As a fellow optimist and a realist, he's also the author of the only

good news bulletin in the country. So welcome and let's get invested, Terry. Hi, Bushy. How are you going? Really good, mate. Very humbled to have you aboard, mate. You've sort of been an icon in the property research arena for many years now and really looking forward to diving deep into that and sharing that with the listeners. But for those who haven't come across you and they'd have to be living under a rocket, I reckon, mate. But for those that haven't, can you give us a quick rundown on who you are and what you do and why you do it?

Yeah, well, I guess I'm best known for the hotspotting.com.au website, which I started in 2006. Prior to that, I was a newspaper journalist and a freelance consultant specialising in residential property around Australia. and I created the website to inform people about the best places to buy in simple terms because what I learnt all that time I'd spent writing and researching about real estate in the previous years was the one thing that people want to know about most of all, more than any other thing, is where's the best place to buy for future capital growth.

So I created a service that answered that question and that's continued to evolve. which is starting to head in some different and interesting directions right now. But essentially, it was started out to assist mum and dad investors. Awesome. And the big why question behind all that, what's the driving why for you? Well, look, it kind of is a natural fit for me because it brings together all the things that I really love doing. I love real estate. I love research.

And I love writing. And I started out in working life as a newspaper journalist and I have authored four books. And so what I do now sort of brings together those things I like doing. The other thing I really love is that I think I'm made to be self-employed. I've never been a natural for working for other people because I tend to think that I'm smarter than the people I'm working for. So I was always destined to be someone who ran his own show

and I'm very big on lifestyle. So I remember Bernard Salt, the well-known demographer and columnist and author of books saying one day that the quintessential Australian lifestyle that most Australians aim for is being self-employed and a lifestyle location. And when I read that, I thought, well, hell, I'm already living that quintessential lifestyle.

That's what I do. Yeah, I'm right with you there, mate. That's exactly what it's all about for me too. So we're going to come back to that. and I'm actually going to come back to some recent comments that Bernard Saltz made later in the conversation, actually, giving some insights there, which I think are pretty relevant to what we're talking about today.

Mate, you've touched on your background. I'd love for you just to take us back through your journey so far and go back as far as you'd like, if you can, please, just to share where you invested your time, your energy and your money. What did you learn from it? What were the ups and the downs that went with that and how did that get back to where you are today? I was born and bred in a very small town in the South Island of New Zealand.

I left school and got a job in the bank because that's what the career guidance people told me I should do, and I discovered very, very early in that career that it wasn't for me. But one thing they did get me to do was I failed to show up to a meeting one day, and they appointed me staff correspondent to the National Bank magazine, so I started writing pieces for the bank magazine but I thought most of what was written in the magazine was extremely boring so I was going to jazz it up so I started writing spoofs and parodies

of what went on in the local branch and I found that people who read it really loved it so I realised what I wanted to be was a writer of some sort so I quit the bank and went to journalism school and everything that's happened in my life has kind of evolved from that. I went into newspaper journalism. I ended up being a real estate specialist by accident, and what I'm doing now has kind of been an evolution from that point.

Tell us about the accident, mate. I'm interested in that accident. What does that mean? Oh, look, I think you and I agree that mainstream media is a pretty poor show these days. It's never been a great one. and having been on the inside of newspapers, working in them, realising how newspapers are put together, I think that people realise they never buy them.

But one day when I was working on the sub-editor's desk, the editor called me in and said, we've decided to make you property editor of our real estate section. And I said, but I don't know anything about real estate. And he said, no, that doesn't matter. You'll find out. It's about houses and stuff. So I thought, okay.

So I thought, typical of my attitude, If I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it as well as I can. So I decided to make myself an expert on real estate. And then just when I got to the point where I thought I was actually doing a good job of being the real estate agent, they tried to move me out into something else. And I made a fuss and resisted very strongly. I said, look, I've put in a lot of effort trying to become an expert in this field. Now you want me to go and do something else? I want to stay here.

So they let me stay there. and I went from – that was at the Courier Mail newspaper in Brisbane and I went from there to the Financial Review, which in those days was a very serious and very high-quality newspaper. Not anymore, I'm afraid, but it certainly wasn't in the 80s when I was working there. Yeah, it's a good paper, yeah. And eventually I worked out in newspapers because I became aware

that if I was going to achieve some of my life goals and earn some decent income and do some more interesting things. I needed to get out of newspapers and become a consultant to the industry in which I'd become increasingly an expert. So I'd become a freelance consultant and it all evolved from there. Yeah, let's go back there because a lot of the listeners wouldn't appreciate that at that time there was, excuse my French, bugger all decent information around property other than what the real estate agent would tell you.

So, you know, becoming an expert, was property something that you already had an affinity for or you sort of grew to love as you sort of found out more about it? Well, I grew to love it as I found out more about it. I really didn't have any interest until they made me real estate editor. But one of the things I did was I like to think that certainly in Brisbane and Queensland, I kind of pioneered the doing of research to create knowledge and information. So when I was writing articles for the Courier Mail about real estate, I started engineering some research projects that I thought were certainly going to be interesting to myself and I assumed to my readers and to the industry. and i found i was getting a really strong and positive reaction to that so it kind of became what i did so when i left newspapers became a consultant to commercial property firms in brisbane what i was doing was actually doing research and writing reports on their behalf

in their name but i was doing all the all the sort of the research work and the writing and they found that that attracted a lot of attention to them and in the media it also brought them business and so it became very much what i do the the doing of research and the writing of research based reports is very very good for business um it attracts business it makes people believe that the company that's the author of the report is actually knowledgeable and good at what they do so um things have evolved from there yeah okay and again uh putting some perspective around this You would have been a lone flame in those days, quite groundbreaking if we compare it to – there's masses of information now, most of it retrospective, that doesn't really tell you anything about the future. But that would have been pretty groundbreaking.

Can you tell us about – and we'll dive straight in here if we can. As you've gone along that evolution and learnt more about what drives property markets generally, and this probably sums up, perhaps define what you think a property hotspot is, and then given your knowledge and experience over that long journey, what are the key drivers that then start telling you that a place is going to be a future hotspot? Well, a hotspot is, in very simple terms, a place that's going to outperform the general market, and that's what investors are looking for, and so are homebuyers as well. I mean, ideally, they'd like to own a home in an area that's going to grow in value and outperform. So that's what we're looking for, the future outperformance. There's not much point in doing what media does, which generally tells people where they

should have invested one or two years ago by saying, well, these are the places where values have grown the most in the last 12 months or the last five years, which doesn't really help people very much. So I put in a lot of time and effort about 15 years ago in studying locations that had outperform and started to notice that they had some qualities in common. And so I started to understand what the drivers were that created hotspots, the outperformers. And in simple terms, it very much arises out of the local economy. I think media tends to think in terms of macro national economic events like the level of interest rates, which I tend to think is certainly not totally irrelevant.

But in terms of where the best place is to buy, it's really got very little to do with interest rates because we all have the same common level of interest rates across the country. It's about what's happening in your local economy. And that's why we have across Australia at any point in time, we have markets that are booming, markets that are rising moderately, markets that are stagnating, markets that are falling a little, and markets that are absolutely plummeting. All those different scenarios at any one time somewhere in Australia at any point in time, and it's because it's all about the local economy, what's happening there. And one of the big drivers of influence in terms of the strength or otherwise of the economy is infrastructure spending. existing infrastructure and, in particular, what we look for is spending on new infrastructure because that can be a huge generator of economic activity and jobs

and out of that comes demand for real estate. And I think it explains the difference between, say, Sydney and Melbourne in the last half-dozen years, which have had a substantial boom that Brisbane hasn't had and Adelaide to date hasn't had and Canberra and Perth has been going backwards. Why the difference? Well, one of the big differences has been

that Melbourne and Sydney have been spending massively on infrastructure and it's generated so much for their economies and that's had an impact on their residential property markets. Yeah, that's a very good read. Are there other supporting drivers underneath infrastructure that you've seen had a meaningful impact on future hotspots, Terry? Yeah, look, I mean, it's one of the things we do look for and one of the reasons why I'm more confident about Brisbane

and finally joining the party is that it's actually starting to spend on infrastructure, generally speaking, because of everything that it generates. But probably the one that has the greatest influence is transport infrastructure, new or upgraded motorway links, new rail links. Those are the things that can really revolutionise the appeal of a location that might have been previously not terribly accessible

and the new rail link goes in and suddenly people can jump want to train and get to the center of the city so much easier and faster than before and that makes that location at the end of that to railway line or along the railway line um so much more appealing and it was just in the last week or so there's some research out of canberra showing that locations along the the route of the the new light rail link from the north of canberra down to the center of canberra have grown more in value than places that haven't been in those locations so it's a it's a very important one yeah absolutely no doubt i i think the art form uh with that because governments and the media are quite often get ahead of the game and make big announcements

about stuff that never actually eventuates or never takes shape or it's put off so long that it doesn't have the impact does your research include sort of nailing down committed infrastructure that that you are then confident that it's going to go in so that you then how you can put your name against the location in terms of its future hot spot Yeah well I have learnt that it's a folly to assume that if something's announced it's going to go ahead

so one of the questions I always ask when I'm looking at a location where there's a lot of major things planned the question I ask is what if none of this happens is it still a good place to invest but what usually happens is that it doesn't all go ahead but at least some of it does

but what the research has shown over the years is that if it's in terms of a major new piece of transport infrastructure, a motorway or a rail link, there's three phases of growth. One when it's first announced. The second phase of growth is when it actually starts construction. And the third phase is when it's finished and people can touch it and feel it and see the benefits. And probably the optimum or most sensible time to buy is when they actually start building it because they're getting a little little bit ahead of those people who wait until it's finished but you know you can be pretty confident it's going to be there because they've actually started building it and committing

resources to it but certainly not at the time that a politician makes an announcement because quite often that happens in the context of an election and they have this nasty habit of not actually doing the things that they promised to do you may have noticed that but i'm trying to keep the sarcasm out of our voice here terry but uh i think they they operate on the theory that if they say before and then they then they're gone within a term then no one's ever going to catch up with them but i'm but my cynicism is starting to show through mate mate uh switching back to the the personal front then and we'll come back to uh more info around the the research side of things in a minute but i'd love you to share with us as you sort of develop this

this love for property as you spent more and more of your time specialising in it. How did that fold out into your personal side of the equation? Did you start investing in property personally? And if so, are you happy to share with us the good, the bad and the ugly on that journey? Yeah, I think probably I'd have to say that I've never had a bad experience investing in real estate. I've had one or two that have been a little bit ordinary, but I've never had a disaster and there's plenty of investors around Australia that have because they've bought

in like a mining town at the boom, at the peak of the boom and then when the resources boom was over, values plummeted and they ended up with something worth a hell of a lot less than they paid. I've never had an experience like that because I wouldn't buy in places like that. But most of my experiences have been pretty good. I think probably the biggest mistake I made was not starting soon enough.

It never even occurred to me to become a property investor until I was probably into my 30s. So I would urge people who are in, say, you know, younger than that, in their 20s, starting out with their careers, get your foot on the ladder as soon as you can, start as early as you can and accumulate. Don't seek to trade yourself to wealth because it doesn't work like that. buy something that's a good asset and keep it

and just keep adding to it and build a portfolio. The very first piece of real estate I bought was a house in Ipswich in the south-west of the Brisbane metropolitan area in the early 80s. It cost $25,000, which is ridiculous in terms of what you pay for real estate now, but it seemed a lot of money at the time. And it was a very humble house and a humble location, but it grew in value i bought it for 25 000 a couple years later i sold it for 41 and bought something better if i knew what i knew knew then what i know now i wouldn't have sold it or kept

it um but um in the early phase of my sort of property ownership career i was buying things and then selling them and moving to something better um but i certainly did well out of that but i think the better way to do it would have been to just kept that and buy something new and just accumulated a portfolio over time. Yeah. Yeah, well, like you say, it's a learning curve. And I think a lot of investors feel like they've got to be making the market. It's a bit like trading shares.

They've got to make the market so they think they've got to buy and sell to make the profits, whereas if you'd leave the profits in there and take the equity and then stick it into something else, you're not copying the selling or the buying costs, but you're allowing that equity to get your portfolio are to accumulate progressively over time. So, but here's the good news, you were doing something, mate,

which is a long way further than a lot of Aussies who keep talking about they're going to do something. So, you know, that's a great moment. And where did you go from there? So you sold the place in Ipswich and do you mind just sort of sketching out the property journey personally from there? Yeah, well, I mean, I came to Australia from New Zealand

and I actually came to Australia to play a season at Rugby Union because that was my passion and work on the local newspaper, then go home. But I never went home. And so life just took another turn. You know, one of my favourite quotes is the words of a John Lennon song which says, life is what happens while you're busy making other plans. And that's certainly what happened when I came to Australia.

Bought that first house. when I sold it I moved closer to the centre of Brisbane which was by that time I was working at the Courier Mail and I didn't want to be spending hours on a train every day getting from Ipswich out into central Brisbane where the Courier Mail

newspaper headquarters were so I bought something quite close to town still for a very low price and I think I paid $50,000 for that house which was in the city suburb of Brisbane again I should never have sold it

But, because, you know, it would be – I noticed when the last time I drove past that property just out of interest that someone had bought it, knocked it down and built a mansion because it was a fantastic block of land with views of the river and surrounding suburbs. So, the land alone, you know, the property would be worth well over a million dollars today. I was going to say, it would have at least seven numbers attached to it. Yeah, that's – but, hey, yeah, that's all part of the learning. and it's a really good lesson for anybody young issues who's listening to this podcast that um that the secret i think is is to accumulate you don't buy and sell make a start get yourself a good property asset and then add to it by buying more good assets and um so that if you and if you start doing that in your 20s by the time you're in your 40s um you'll probably have a substantial

portfolio and um you've got then you've got options you know if early retirement is is your your great objective um then you may have that option if you start soon enough and go about it the right way yeah 100 agree yeah brandt uh there are other other aspects to uh building your own portfolio that you're happy to share them from there look i think um increasingly i mean what used to be the the general mode for property investors is what we call passive investment you buy a property you put in a tenant and you wait for it to grow in value you hope that it grows in value if you're bought in the right place it probably will but these days i think property investors and certainly i am looking for ways to accelerate the process so buying property

that's not only in a great location for future growth but has a value-adding opportunity the ability perhaps to build a granny flat, to subdivide, to build a second dwelling or maybe a renovation possibility if that's what you, if that's part of your strategy. So, I mean, an example is something that I bought in a regional city of Victoria about a year ago, a really good property in a great location at a good price with a really good rental yield so it's ticking all the boxes so far but the real the the big kicker for me was that i was on a large block of land that could be subdivided into three blocks and so that's that's the value adding opportunity this is sounding a bit this sounds a bit like ballarat or delong to

me mate well close but it was actually bendigo uh yeah okay yeah that's all of those places i'm a big fan of all of them particularly right now and we'll talk about the current trends i think a little further into the conversation, but I think Bendigo is a great place, and it was a very good buy, and I've got that opportunity when I'm ready to do that subdivision, and that will really accelerate the profitability of that property. Yeah, I've got a brother who lived and worked, and he's got property in Bendigo, and he's had it for quite a while, and it's a really good little regional economy, Bendigo, and and it's only a stone's throw from Melbourne now,

coming back to the infrastructure again, then what's happening through those regions around Melbourne with Bendigo, Ballarat and Geelong and the train extensions and whatnot, then there's some really good potential, particularly given the lifestyle shift that we're starting to see with hard-working Aussies. But I digress.

Mate, given that background then, And what's been your, perhaps your biggest challenge in both your personal and professional life so far, mate? And what did you learn from it? Look, I suppose that, I mean, one of the things we talked about earlier was something that was an apparent failure, but set you up for later success. one of the toughest periods I've faced in working and business life was coming out of the late 80s, which was an unbelievable and ridiculous boom in the economy and in real estate.

And out of that, we had the recession that allegedly we had to have, which was in the early 90s, and I was actually working for a commercial property firm, doing research and writing reports, doing my thing. And I was one of the people who got retrenched, for things turned south and I decided, as I have been doing with my business during this difficult COVID-19 period, was to see that as an opportunity, not as a disaster. So I decided to think about, okay, what can I do from this point onwards and I became

a freelance consultant. I started to set up my own business and made myself available to do consulting work and And actually, even in those tougher times, it went really well and I was earning pretty good money and enjoying what I was doing. And so that unpleasant experience of losing my job, being retrenched, which I wouldn't wish upon anybody because at the time it's really, really scary, but out of that came the career that has evolved since then and doing what I'm doing now.

So it probably gave you the push that you probably would have got to, but it may have taken longer before you took the jump. Am I right in saying that? Well, that's right. I was forced to make a decision. I guess I lacked the confidence to go out on my own. I was always sort of hitching up to other people's companies, and that was a safe way of doing what I do. And that experience of being retrenched forced me to do what I probably should have been doing already, which was starting my own operation and being self-employed and getting to the point where I am now, where I'm running a business that employs people and is doing exciting and interesting things. Yeah, that's awesome.

I'm going to do a complete flip now. I'm going to jump to the future for a minute. and you've sort of partly answered this already, I think, but I'd love you to put some shape around your dream lifestyle and what you continue to invest in that is giving you that, mate. Well, I think my dream lifestyle is the one that I'm currently living with. I'd like to maybe make a few changes, which I'm working on at the moment. You know, I'm self-employed.

I run my own operation. I have a home office, so I like to tell people I've got a five, second commute every morning, which is how long it takes me to walk from the residential building to the office building because it's all on the one property, on one acreage in the town of Mullaney in the Sunshine Coast, Hinterland. Nice. No, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else

and I wouldn't want a different lifestyle. So I'm actually living the dream lifestyle now. The one chance I'd like to make is to perhaps be working fewer hours. I've got no desire to retire. I'm not that far off the official retirement age, but I've got no concept of retirement. I just get bored. And, you know, some of my heroes are people like David Attenborough.

He's out there doing what he's always done at the age of 91 or 92. He's never going to stop doing it because he loves it. Warren Buffett is one of the richest men in the world. He's well into his 80s, but he goes to work every day, not because he needs the money, but because he enjoys what he does. so I'm of similar ilk I just like to get the business on a footing where I can employ one or two more people

to do some of the things I'm currently doing so I can sort of step back and be more managerial and get back to writing some books so that would be my perfect lifestyle just doing what I'm doing now with a slightly fewer hours writing books and travelling a little bit more I've always been a passionate traveller and I like to do a bit more of that

Yeah, mate, we sound like peas in a pod. I'm exactly with you. What I love about the opportunity in this current world, Terran, I'm sure you'd assimilate with this, we can operate from anywhere. We don't have to be stuck in a CBD, an epoxy office in a suit. I work here on acreage with the dogs around me during the day and we can hook in from anywhere. We can do it at any time.

You know, writing, share your passion there, and travel's getting, once we lift the borders, then that's going to get back to where it was. What are you investing in beyond the property, and perhaps you don't need any more than property, and the business that's funding that lifestyle? Is there anything else that you're investing in that's going to sustain that lifestyle long term? look um i've never invested in terms of assets i've never invested in anything but real estate well no that's not strictly true one of the lessons i learned going back to that period i mentioned the the late 80s and then things went bust i learned a very valuable lesson because i got caught up in the euphoria of the share market and i i put what was a large sum of money at the time into shares and i knew nothing about it and then the share market tanked and the companies

I'd invested in disappeared and so that money was completely lost what I learned from that is you should never invest in things you don't know really really well and I think it's a mistake a lot of people do you really have to educate yourself whatever you choose to invest in so I haven't invested in the share market ever since I've stuck with real estate but what I do believe in investing in is is myself I think that's really important that people should always be investing in themselves and by that I mean in learning you always should be seeking to learn be doing courses whether it's online or going to seminars not just for your career your business operation but also personally so that's something I'm always looking to do investing in myself because

success isn't all about how many dollars you earn it's about how you are as a person and the lifestyle that you lead and um all of that's important so you know invest in yourself that's that's a key thing for me yeah 100 agree and and uh it's the old story i think uh that again one of the first questions we we ask people that we help terry is how much is enough how much is enough to sustain the lifestyle that you want to lead because once you get there that's job done it's I came from a very hardworking father who was just hell-bent on earning more and more and it eventually killed him and he never made time to actually enjoy the journey.

So I made a very good point there about investing in knowledge and investing in yourself as the first part. I think that's one of Warren Buffett's great quotes is that, you know, never invest in anything you don't understand. Yeah. And no greater advice on that score. Mate, that's probably a nice pivot into investing in good information when it comes to looking at the property side of the equation

because, let's face it, we are absolutely buried in information, but there's a lot of difference between information and useful knowledge. So what would you be saying to people who, you know, Perhaps they've started on the investment journey or they're about to. Where do they go looking for good information and what approach do you think they should take? I think it's really important that people have got to be either willing to invest time or invest money.

Sadly, most wannabe investors in Australia try to do it on the cheap. So it's this crazy dichotomy really, I suppose, whereas the average punter in Australia would say, yeah, I'm willing to spend $500,000 buying an investment property, but no, I won't spend $5,000 getting really good advice before I actually spend that big money. I won't spend $500 getting a valuation to make sure I'm buying at the right price. I won't even spend $50 on a research report to make sure I'm buying in the right area. and they try and do it all on the cheap and I think it's a huge mistake. It's a false economy, the worst kind of false economy. You've got to be willing to invest some money, to make money.

You've got to treat real estate as a business. Most Australians treat real estate investment as a hobby. The ones that are really successful treat it as a business and any business is based on spending money to make money. You need to create a team around you. You need to have a really good accountant who understands real estate. You need to have good information sources like the one that we provide

in Hotspotting. You need to perhaps engage a good buyer's agent to help you find the right property and be willing to spend money on professionals who are really good at what they do. So you have a team around you that ensures that you're making good decisions because when people come a cropper with real estate investment, probably any form of investment, is they don't do any of that.

They try and do it on the cheap and they make bad decisions and quite often they end up with a dud, something that's worth less than they paid or something that's not growing in value the way that they hoped it would. I reckon you've summed that up beautifully and the challenge, and I actually think the reason why

over 50% of first-time property investors sell a property within the first five years is that they focus just on the property and a lot of it's based on, well, I live in a house, so I'll just go and get another house. How hard can it be? and then wonder why it's not working for them

because they haven't structured it the right way, they haven't bought it in the right place, they haven't bought the right profile, haven't even thought of those aspects of it. And I 100% agree with you. $50 for a research report on a $500,000 property is just a no-brainer in terms of informing that decision. But if we look at...

Because there is a lot of information out there now and, you know, in support of what you do with hotspotting, can you talk to us about how the hotspotting research and reports that are produced differ from what they might be finding from other sources in the industry? Well, I think most research sources, there's plenty of good ones out there and they all have a contribution to make,

but basically they are spitting graphs and charts and rows of figures out of a computer. And what we do is we think that that doesn't really help people because they don't necessarily see the significance of the figures that they're looking at. So we actually write reports that gather all the information that's available out there from all the different sources and analyse it and write a readable report

so people can understand what it all means. And in the course of doing that, we're looking for certain indicators, There's things that marker locations, a place that's going to be a future outperformer, a future hotspot. So every day we're pouring through various information sources online, we're tapping into newspapers online, all sorts of information sources, research sources and others, and electronically filing it.

And that process is alerting us every day to possibilities, areas that might warrant a further look. We might find out that there's a major new hospital proposed to be built in a regional centre or a major new rail link that's going to make a location more accessible. So we'll have a deeper look at that and see what else is going on there. And that knowledge helps inform our choices when we come to write a report like top five regional Queensland hotspots or top five Adelaide hotspots,

we're already thinking ahead of time based on our day-to-day research and tapping into those online sources of the big events that make a difference. Yeah, absolutely. And you're across those at the local level, which is, again, you know, it's easy to congregate stats and look at averages and broad regional stuff,

but that doesn't really paint a true picture of what's happening at the local level. No, it doesn't. And the thing is, Bushy, that most of the stats that are out there inform you about the recent past, and that's interesting and sometimes it might be useful, but it's not really the core information. What you want to know is what does the future hold because most of the stats that are out there tell you

probably where you should have bought a couple of years ago, but it doesn't tell you about where you should buy now for the future. And that's the thing that's missing and that's what we do. And we're looking for those indicators. We're looking for the places where the big infrastructure spending is proposed to work. There's been a major announcement that a business is going to be, just won a major government contract and they're going to be building

a factory and employing 2,000 people. That kind of information means that the local real estate market is probably going to be supercharged by events like that. That's what we're looking for. um information that informs the future rather than the the raw stats that tell us about the recent past yeah absolutely it's the it's the uh looking through the windscreen not through the review mirror is the difference that i see in what you're doing and and there's very little information out there that that uh has the confidence to do that because a lot of it

is is review because it's it's easy to tell us what what's just happened it takes a lot more courage to say well i think this is what's going to happen so uh so uh yeah i love that mate uh given that at the time we're talking today we're just sort of starting to emerge from the the infamous uh contagion and and pandemic uh given the the work that you're doing across the country i'm sure you're starting to see changes in thinking around how hard-working aussies are going to live and where they're going to live. Can you share a little bit of that and how you see that potentially impacting on property as we're moving forward?

Well, probably the biggest single thing is that the shutdown phase forced people to work from home and a certain proportion of those people are going to be seeking to make that a permanent arrangement because they've realised that, hey, this actually works, I can work effectively from home and that means I don't necessarily have to be living in the big city to be close to the big CBD where the office space is and it kind of can work at both ends because if the company that employs people is having more people working effectively from home they don't have to spend so much on very expensive office space so there's a benefit there so I think

this was a trend that was already underway people moving to the the fringes of the big cities or out beyond the fringes into some of the hill change areas within, say, one to two hours of the capital city. That was a trend that was already underway because of technology and improved transport links. So you mentioned Ballarat and Geelong, and I mentioned Bendigo. Those are places that are all getting a lot of buyers out of Melbourne. Similarly, outside of Sydney, the central coast, Wollongong,

Newcastle, inland cities like Orange also starting to benefit from that trend. So COVID-19 has exacerbated that trend by making more people aware of the possibilities of working remotely, telecommuting and I think we're going to be seeing, in fact we already are seeing an uplift in interest in those places, those good strong regional centres that have a life of their own but they have the benefit of being within striking distance of the big city if people need to go there. Yeah, absolutely. I think what the pandemic has done is just concentrated

what would have been a slow, gradual trend and put the oxy-torch on it so that, you know, the safety and the security aspect, I think, at the micro level is going to affect house design. So we're going to see, you know, dedicated home offices. we're going to see a sort of a hard exterior with a an internal focus and and then people entering only coming out to shop or the occasional visit to to work if they if they need to or to meet clients so it's going to have a an impact on the way we design their our homes and then

then i agree with you the that that concentration in the cbd will sort of filter out to the nicer fringes, which will promote regional shopping and regional living. What about the challenges for the CBDs? The big super funds have very heavily invested in CBD office buildings, which are going to be predominantly empty immediately and ongoing. What's your thoughts around the impact there and the housing that's closely associated with that? Well, you know, the office buildings aren't going to be completely empty. I mean, there's still going to be, you know, plenty of companies that have a need to be in those central locations.

Just that probably for some of them, the actual quantum of office space that they will need going forward will be less for some of them. And so that will have an impact. We might have in the short term, there's going to be some vacancies, more vacancies in commercial property than might have otherwise been the case. We've also seen impacts in the CBDs in terms of residential property

because a lot of investor owners had apartments in places like the Sydney CBD, the Melbourne CBD, and they were using Airbnb rather than permanent tenants and suddenly travel wasn't happening anymore. So they dumped their investment property in the permanent rental pool and suddenly vacancy rates have soared in the case of Sydney CBD. It's gone to 15% or 16% almost overnight. So that's had a big impact and it's a question of how fast that will come back. But this is the whole thing about COVID-19.

Things that used to work suddenly don't work anymore and it's been a bit of a revelation, a very unpleasant one for some people. and in terms of what the future holds as we come out of this, I don't think we can go back completely to what we used to call normal. We're going to have to change some things and there will be impacts on commercial property. There will be some positive impacts for locations in terms of residential property.

Some of those hill change towns and regional cities that we've talked about are going to benefit and I think we're going to see, for example, well, we're going to have to bring certain types of manufacturing back to Australia that have been offshore because it's cheaper to have everything made in China. Well, we're being shown that that doesn't work. So we're going to have to make certain things in Australia again.

People who thought it was smart to have call centres offshore because it's cheaper, suddenly they weren't working because call centres in the Philippines couldn't get their staff to work because of COVID-19. So that has to be rethought. and that's going to have implications for real estate and business in Australia as we go forward. No doubt the first-hand experience there, we've got a broking arm of our business and dealing with the major banks who'd outsourced a lot of that backroom activity overseas

or loan applications that we're putting today wouldn't be touched for three to four weeks. They wouldn't even be looked at because of the issues they were having with their overseas resource support. But if we layer those things together, so if we look at the changes in thinking, the changes in the lifestyles that will flow out from that, and then we start to apply that. And I think there's probably two phases. I'll be interested in your thoughts on this.

But we're sort of in the eye of the storm at the moment, given that we've got massive government stimulus and support packages sort of underpinning what's going to happen. So there's sort of phase one now that we're in. Once those things start to fall away and then they open up the borders, let's assume that that happens, how do you see that rolling out in terms of its impact on property and generally? And then perhaps now's probably a good time to start going around the grounds

to talk about where you see the opportunities flowing from those change drivers are going to be. Yeah, I think, you know, media loves to have a catastrophe to talk about. When COVID first came along, sort of mid-February, when we first saw the first meltdown in the share market, people started forecasting major decline in property values. And at the end of every month when the new stats came out and showed that property values hadn't dropped at all,

let alone plummeted, everyone said, well, yeah, but wait till next month because we haven't seen the true impact of it yet. So here we are about, you know, four months or more into it and we still haven't seen any evidence of real estate falling off a cliff. So the new disaster that the economists and media like to talk about is the September cliff when apparently the government and the banks are suddenly going to switch off all their support overnight and everything's going to plummet.

well um i'm very confident it's not going to happen like that um they wouldn't be they haven't you know put in the levels of support they have today to just switch it all off and see everything collapse because that would make no sense either for the government or for the banks and their mortgage customers but also assumes that nothing will change between now and then we're already seeing things changing we're seeing confidence rising we're seeing businesses reopening as the Restrictions are eased. We're right at the point where the borders are being reopened. Today, Queensland announced that it's reopening its borders

to everywhere except Victoria for obvious reasons. So things are starting to get back and businesses, as more of those decisions are made, businesses reopen, jobs come back, and by the time we get to the end of September, I think we're going to be looking like a very different country. the stimulus will be doing its job it's not just about JobKeeper and JobSeeker it's also the stimulus that's going into generating construction

I think the $25,000 HomeBuilder grant is going to be hugely influential because there's already been a big reaction particularly from young buyers saying okay we're going to grab this and build our first home but the important thing is that the multiplier impact of residential construction is the second highest of all the industry sectors.

So for every million dollars that gets spent on residential property, according to the research, I think it's nine jobs are created. So the stimulus that's come from that $25,000 grant is going to be massive in terms of generating economy, economic activity and jobs. So I think as we go forward, things are going to improve. Australia has been identified by the OECD

and the International Monetary Fund is one of the strongest two or three economies in the world in terms of dealing with this. So I think we're in pretty good shape. And I guess I'm an optimist by nature, but I think I'm also realistic in believing that we've handled it well to date. The real estate market has held up really well. And as we go forward, I think it's going to be very solid. 100% agree.

And if we look back in history, actually, and I'm sure you'd be all over this more than I would, But I've had a really good look back since that recession that we had to have the keeping imposed to the one that we decided to have, which is the one we're having now. And that's why I don't think you compare them. This one, we put the handbrake on ourselves. And regardless of your political persuasion, I think the government's done a fantastic job at identifying where they need to be putting their money to support the economy. and you've mentioned the HomeBuilder and what that's going to do

and the flow-on effect to... I think despite all of the criticism about the social housing aspect, what the government's very smartly worked out is that HomeBuilder is targeting the majority of people, the majority of hardworking families can take advantage of it

and that flow-on effect to the employment side of the equation is very dramatic. So I think it's a very well-placed program from where I sit. But if we, and in hand with what you're saying there, given how well we perform both in terms of handling the contagion but also managing the economy as a result, I also believe that, you know, all eyes are on Australia

and we know how clean, green, safe our island is. I think people are going to be falling over themselves to get here when and if they can. And I actually think, and I'd be interested in your thoughts on this, Terry, I think we're in the eye of a storm. I think there's, you know, I'm a bit of a contrarian investor and I love times like this because this is a time when you can get in when other people are sitting on their hands and when everyone else wakes up to it and things do start to improve with the lowest interest rates we've ever seen and a lower Australian dollar, which is, you know, going

to encourage investment, I think we're extremely well placed. What are your thoughts? Well, we are, and we've already been identified by some of the major financial bodies of the world. I mentioned the International Monetary Fund and the OECD, they've both in the last few weeks identified Australia as one of the global leaders in terms of their positioning the strength of their economy, the way they've handled the pandemic and the way they're expected to go forward

and get back to economic growth relatively quickly. But I think the future belongs to people. We see this as a time of opportunity. Initially, I think April is what I call the panic month. My business experience, people get our services having a bit of a panic and thinking they had to cancel subscriptions and things like that. But we got through that relatively quickly. and what I've experienced talking to people and dealing with customers

is that there's a very high level of positivity out there and people have generally decided, well, how can we make the best of this? Where's the opportunity in this? And so it's forced people to innovate. For example, it's forced people to look at ways to do auctions other than live auctions. It's forced real estate marketers to look at virtual tours and that kind of technology, which will stand them in good stead

as we go forward. Certainly with my business, we decided to see it as an opportunity. The fact that I can't travel means that I have a bit more time in the office, so how am I going to use that time? Well, let's plan for the future. Let's do some of the marketing things that I wanted to do but didn't have time. So we've done a lot of, like, filming of video content,

for example, in this period. and I think we're going to be well set up as we come out the other side. Helped along by some of the government support measures. You mentioned that governments have done a pretty good job. I think they have, by and large. There's been some gaps, but JobKeeper, the tax benefits, some of the grants that are available, state government loans on very favourable terms,

all of those things we've managed to access and have been really helpful. That means we've been able to keep our team intact and we had our planning day just a couple of days ago on Friday, our annual planning day, and I'm feeling very optimistic that out of all of this, we're going to go forward strongly and grab the opportunities that come out of it. Yeah, it sounds awesome. Probably a good time now, you've touched on some of them,

but are you happy to sort of go around the grounds and look at where you think the opportunities are and why and perhaps also your thoughts on those areas that you think that could be challenged as a result of that. Can we go state to state on that? Yeah, well, we can because, and just coincidentally, today, in fact, we published our new edition of our most popular report,

which is called National Top 10 Best Buys, and it's our sort of our new edition for the new financial year. And in making the 10 selections, I was thinking very much about, firstly, we always take a long-term view. So what are the places that have got the credentials to do well long-term, but also what are the places

that have those long-term credentials but are also well set up to withstand the negative impacts of the COVID-19 period? Because some locations are actually thriving not so much despite COVID but because of COVID and some of those have changed in terms of getting rising demand out of the cities as a result. But some places have economies well set up to withstand And just one of our top ten is a place that most people probably wouldn't think of for investment, and that's Aubrey-Wodonga

at the border between New South Wales and Victoria. It's actually a great regional city. When you visit the area, I'm always amazed at how much, because of its strategic location, some very big national and international companies have a massive presence there, you know, warehousing, distribution-type presence. The thing about Aubrey-Wodonga is that its five biggest sectors in terms of jobs are supermarkets and food stores, the military because they've got a big defense presence, aged care, hospitals and medical services, and takeaway food. So they're the biggest employers in Aubrey-Wodonga.

they're all industries that have been hiring rather than firing through this period. They're almost in recession-proof industries too, by the way, just looking at that list that you've just gone through. Well, that's right. So you couple that with the fact that, and it's noticeable, that their vacancy rate has not risen. Their vacancies coming into this period were very low,

less than 1.5%, and they're still down at that level. And when I talk to people at the Coalface in Albury-Wodonga, So people in real estate say, look, we're as busy as ever. It's just business as usual for us. So very affordable, great rental yields. You can buy – we talked earlier about those value-adding opportunities where you can buy a property affordably with great rental returns, but you can subdivide and have a value-adding opportunity.

Aubrey Wodonga has those sorts of opportunities. So that's an example. But if we go around the states, I rate the Sunshine Coast very highly, amazing things happening in that economy and it's becoming used to be a sleepy tourist town and it's evolving into an international city in various ways and I could talk about that for an hour but I won't A couple of locations in Adelaide which I know is near and dear to you Bushy but I believe Adelaide is

incredibly underrated, it's got a big future just in the area of high tech innovation alone I think it's going to really make Australia stand up and take notice and when Australians realise what it has to offer and the value for money of its real estate there's going to be a stampede to Adelaide I think I mentioned Bendigo it's on our list so is Ballarat for the reasons that we previously discussed and similar vein Orange in New South Wales wonderfully diverse economy it's got government offices which

are sort of very safe job sector to be in it's got biggest gold mining operation in Australia which is also handy to have on your doorstep it's got viticulture and agriculture it's got big medical services it's got manufacturing so it's really well set up and it's the sort of place that people who decide we don't need to be in Sydney anymore we can walk work remotely Orange is the sort of place I think that a lot of people would move to because it's a beautiful town great lifestyle so I think it's going to do really well. So those are the sorts of places that we feature in the new edition of our top 10 hotspots report

and you know there's nowhere in downtown Melbourne or downtown Sydney in this report. It's the smaller capital cities and it's the good regional centres that we're focusing on at the moment. Yeah, where does the west fit into the equation? Are there any areas there that you see have got opportunity given it's just bouncing along the bottom and in some areas starting to emerge. What's your thoughts about the West? Yeah, I think Perth has got a lot of potential.

It's a great time, you know, for people to be looking. And, you know, the successful investors are the ones that most investors, to express it another way, are herd animals. They'd rather be part of a herd that's stampeding towards a cliff than be the independent animal that detaches from the herd and runs in the opposite direction. so people will pile into Perth and they read there's a boom on again but the smart people will be looking there now

because Perth is on the cusp of a long overdue upcycle. It was starting to have one beginning of last year and then the federal election and a few other things put the kibosh on it and they were starting to revive again at the start of this year and then COVID-19 came along but I think that Perth's great value for money because values have been falling there for a few years its economy is strengthening.

I think one of the consequences of the recovery from COVID-19 is a resources boom, and I think Western Australia with iron ore in particular is going to do very well in Perth will benefit. So I think Perth is a place to be looking right now for opportunities to buy really well, and there's lots of places in Perth where you can buy property where you can have that value-adding opportunity of building, say, a second dwelling on the property that you buy. Yeah, 100% agree. Coming back to Queensland, you mentioned the Sunshine Coast, but that

South East Queensland region itself, I mean, Brisbane's sort of, and I think using your expression, I think it's felt like a car that's been revving but hasn't taken off yet. What's your feeling on where that's going? Because all the indicators would suggest that South East Queensland has been ready to really make some moves for some time now. What's your thoughts on the future there yeah i think you know brisbane's um long overdue for an upcycle and it's it's about to have one i think um it's you know the affordability comparison is very favorable the population data's in its favor and what's been missing has been the infrastructure spend but that's now starting to happen with um you know cross river rail and queen street wharf

and the expansion of the international airport and a whole heap of other things that are now starting to happen. You know, Brisbane hasn't been spending on infrastructure in recent years, what Sydney and Melbourne had, but now Brisbane's starting to get on board with that. And I think, again, it's another example of how COVID-19 ultimately can be a benefit. One of the government responses is to fast track infrastructure spending, trying to get big projects shovel ready as fast as possible to stimulate the economy and create jobs. And so Brisbane's got a number of projects on its books, which are probably going to happen a bit faster because of COVID-19. And that's one of those unexpected benefits of this otherwise unpleasant period that we've been through.

So I think Brisbane's on the cusp of a long overdue boom. Yeah, awesome. I totally agree with you on that. But the other area that I'd love to get your thoughts on is good old Canberra, given that there's going to be already a big growth in public sector resource requirements to support what we're going through and beyond. Yeah.

What's your thoughts on Canberra and environments? Look, I think many people think that Canberra is actually the state or territory best positioned to withstand and go forward at this period because it's, you know, it's the capital city, it's the government town, jobs are being retained in those sectors and it's strong for other reasons. You know, its population growth is strong, its economy is generally strong. You know, the ComSec State of the State reports,

Canberra's always in the top three amongst the states and territories. It's got the highest average incomes in the country. It's always got the lowest unemployment rate by far in the nation and that's all intact. Its vacancy rate for residential property is still very low. It's about 1.2%, I think. So, you know, it's got all the credentials to go forward and the location I like is actually not in the ACT

but it's very much part of it and that's Queanbeyan, just over the border in New South Wales, but only 15 minutes from the centre of Canberra. So you can buy in Queanbeyan. It's a little bit cheaper than Canberra. You can get government benefits as a first-time buyer, for example, that you can't get in the ACT, but you're only 15 minutes from the centre of Canberra.

So I think that's a good one to consider for people to tap into the Canberra opportunity. Yeah, well identified there, and thanks for sharing that, Terry. Something that I haven't qualified and I would like to qualify, I guess, is that I'm assuming what we're talking about here predominantly is residential homes that are going to benefit. And I make that assumption because that's the way I normally look at things. I'm not a massive fan of units, townhouses and apartments generally

because of the – for a bunch of reasons. What's your thoughts around that in terms of the style of property that we've been talking about in those locations? Yeah, I guess I have a bit of a bias towards houses on land. traditionally they grow in value more than attached dwellings but I also have the view that people should be flexible and a good property portfolio as you build it will have diversity in locations

and you will also have diversity in property types so there's always room in a portfolio for a well-located townhouse or apartment although I would be thinking in terms of something that's a little bit different, not your generic high-rise, new, off-the-plan stuff, but something that's got a bit of character that maybe more older-style type attached dwellings

in a good city location could be a good thing to have in your portfolio. Yeah, okay. No, that's really good clarification there, mate, and I'm very appreciative of you being happy to share that given that you've just released your top ten report today and this will be a week or two before it goes live so it'll be a nice reinforcement of getting the listeners

to tap into that report and we'll talk shortly about how they can go about getting their hands on that, Terry. But, mate, that's been a really good run through. I'd love to switch gear into what I like to affectionately refer to as the ambush bushfire series of quick five questions that the listeners love to get your insights on. You've mentioned John Lennon's quote already,

but beyond that, what's your favourite quote and why? Look, I went to a conference in New Mexico in November, nothing to do with real estate, it was personal development. It was about the spiritual side of being a person. It was a fantastic event. I'm glad I went to it. It was five days and there was a guy called Dr Joe Dispenza who was one of the main reasons I went.

And one of the things that he said was the best way to predict your future is to create it. And I wrote that down. Now I've got it on the wall of my office. I think there's so much truth in that. Too many people sit around waiting for things to happen, but his philosophy very much is get out and create it. Another thing he said is you don't see things as they are. You see things as you are. I think that speaks to attitude that you need to bring to it.

your perceptions of the world and the way things are very much can be a barrier to people getting to where they want to get. Absolutely. I'm going to talk to you off air about that because I'm reading Dr. Joe Dispenza's book as we speak and getting I'm actually getting very inspired and excited by it. I'm really interested to hear that Bushy. I recommend people read those sorts of books. Let's talk about it later. Yes, definitely.

Well, it got me excited about thinking about the five-day exercise now, mate, when I can actually get on a plane. Mate, slight shift then, and it's on the same topic, the top book that you'd recommend and why? Look, my favourite book ever written is called The War of Art, which is a little bit a flip around of The Art of War, but it was written by a guy called Stephen Pressfield who normally writes historical novels, but he wrote this book,

which is about how to be successful in life as a writer or some kind of artist. So he called it The War of Art, and I think it's an absolutely brilliant book, and it's about the things that hold people back and stop people from succeeding. And I think anyone who reads that book and applies the lessons that it imparts

will do better with what they want to do in life. Yeah, very good call. Now, this is a complete shift in gear, and it comes back to another one of Australia's favourite topics and that is tax because most Aussies feel like they pay too much. What's the top legal thing that you've done to minimise the tax that you pay? I've got to confess, I've never really focused on that.

I've never thought in those terms. Somebody I know and respect once told me that you really should be pretty happy to be paying lots of tax because if you are, it means you're earning lots of income and you're being successful. I think the best thing you can do to minimise your tax and have a win-win situation is to give a proportion of your income to charitable causes, worthy causes, whether that be environmental or helping kids with cancer or something like that. And that's something I like to do personally and with my business, and these things are tax deductible. That's not the motivation for doing them, but it's a side benefit of doing something that's worth doing for its own sake.

It's a bloody good use of the money to help others that aren't as fortunate as ourselves, mate. So I love the spirit of that. Now, back on the investment subject, I'd love for you to share both the worst and the best piece of investment advice that you've ever received today. i think the worst is um relates to one of the myths and misconceptions there's lots of them in real estate but the the notion that you always get the best growth by buying you know prime inner city real estate i think it's just complete garbage and it's not supported by any of the research evidence um but that was as often being that prevailing theme that you hear people still repeating um but it's just so wrong and um i think once people realize that that's not

uh the case uh frees them up to then invest in places that are more affordable actually um potential to show better growth um probably the best advice is is really invest in yourself always seeking to learn too many people uh want to be investors but not willing to put in the time and effort to um to educate themselves first so i think people you've got to be successful as an investor was in business you've got to be a reader um you've got to read lots of books there's lots of wonderful books out there that you can learn from and um i think that that's excellent advice in terms of becoming a successful investor educate yourself by reading i do 100 agree mate i remember when i first got into this uh uh back in the 90s i read every single book i could

get my hands on and didn't agree with all of it, but I learned a hell of a lot from it and it gave me the courage and the confidence to start doing something. So, very sage advice there, mate. Mate, coming back to you personally, what's a habit that you've developed that you believe contributes most to your investment success so far? Look, I think it's a willingness to pay for good advice. I think it's really, really important. creating a team around you and be willing to pay for their advice and the information they give you.

That's the secret to investment success and all the people I know have got, you know, own 30 or 40 properties and they've got a wonderful portfolio that's performing for them. That's the philosophy they've brought. They've treated it as a business and I think that's the mindset that's different for them compared to 90% of wannabe investors.

Yeah, absolutely spot on. Mate, the last question that we'll close on then, and it's a big one, and a topical one really, given that the whole globe's involved in a universal response at the moment, if I gave you a microphone that spoke to every one of the 7.7 billion people that are currently alive in the world and I gave you a minute to talk, what would you say?

well it's very simple it's got nothing to do with real estate or business but it's simply this be kind to the planet and be kind to each other um there's too much conflict in the world and there's too little understanding and i think we can all make our way in the world and achieve you know our our goals in terms of success without harming others and without damaging the environment and that's um that's the message i'd like to leave people with Yeah, I love it, mate. Absolutely right. Mate, been extremely generous with your time and shared some absolute gold with us there today, both from a knowledge point perspective, but also where the opportunities are given the emerging, changing world that we're living in. Mate, for those that would either love to get their hands on the top 10 report and or reach out to you for all of the other services you provide, whether it be the one-on-one work or guest speaking appearances, et cetera, et cetera, what's the best way for them to do that? Well, they can drop me an email as a starting point, ryder, R-Y-D-E-R, at hotspotting.com.au, or they could go to the hotspotting.com.au website.

We've actually this week launched our new website. That's one of the things we've been putting time and energy into during this period. We saw that as an opportunity and we've created a website that I think is much better and more user-friendly and more functional than the one we had. So that's a good place to start and if they've got any questions about anything they see there, they can drop me an email.

I'll do my best to respond in a timely fashion. so it's writer at hotspotting.com.au Brilliant mate again thanks for being so generous if you're open to it would love to get you back on a regular basis just to share your insights

on what's happening in the world of property but I've been looking forward to having a decent chat here for a long time mate so thanks for joining us No it's been an absolute pleasure Bushy and I'll be happy to do it again some time in the not-too-distant future.

And I'm sure you're looking forward to getting back to the wonderful city of Adelaide, which we both agree is the most underrated city in the country. Best kept secret in the place, mate, and the more the Victorian Premier keeps promoting that, the happier I will be just between you and I. All right, mate, thanks again, Terry, and look forward to talking to you soon.

OK, Bushy, no worries. Bye. Bye. Well, Freedom Fighters, how good was that? To get a summary of all this investment gold in the show notes, just email me on hello at khgroup.com.au. It's H-E-L-L-O at khgroup.com.au. Or check us out at www.bushymartin.com.au forward slash getinvested. I look forward to joining you next week for another episode

of the Get Invested podcast. so thanks for listening and as always dream as if you live forever and live as if you die tomorrow