Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk - A decade of lessons

Episode Date: October 10, 2024

This week we bring you a very special show as Bushy and Kevin take time to reflect on the shows history, what they have learnt from talking to the nation’s leading property experts, how everything continues to change but still remains the same. Subscribe for free to Realty Talk on the Property Hub channel, join our community and get more insights here: https://linktr.ee/propertyhubau Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello, welcome to the show. Well, this week we're going to bring you a very special show as I'm making an announcement about my future with Realty Talk and it gives Bushy and I time to reflect on the show's history, what we've learnt, how everything continues to change but at the same time remains exactly the same. I trust you enjoy this show, which will be my last, but we'll give you more details about what's ahead for Realty Talk,

a little bit later in the show because this certainly is not the end. Before we start, I want to thank our supporters and content partners, realty.com.au, BMT Tax Depreciation, Know How Property Finance and Apiro Marketing. Don't forget, you'll find us on all podcast players as The Property Hub,

also on the Southern Cross Australia Network, Hot Copper and all social media platforms. Property deductions can save you thousands of dollars each year To make sure you maximise deductions, you need to work with the most experienced quantity surveyor in the country. BMT Tax Depreciation is the leading specialist in the industry. They've completed over 700,000 tax deduction schedules for residential investment and commercial properties Australia-wide. BMT guarantee to find double your fee in the first full financial year deductions. Call BMT on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation free quote.

Unlock bonus content now as a premium subscriber. Well, as Kevin mentioned in the intro, we're doing something a little bit different today. So I'm all ears and the curiosity is peaking, Kevin. So let's hear what it's all about. Well, yeah, it's a bit different, isn't it, Bushy? I mean, you and I together, we've been threatening to do this for some time.

We tried a couple back in the old days when I used to interview you, but this is not going to be your typical interview topic. And the reason for that is that I'm going to take a bit of a rest. You know, like I'm at the stage now. I just want to ease back a little bit, a number of reasons that we'll talk about during this interview. But I just really wanted to come on and just say,

hey, Realty Talk's going to be around, been around for a long time. It's going to continue. Property Hub has been a great exercise between you and I and a few of our very good friends who have supported us. And, you know, that vision is going to continue. So, you know, while it might change, and you probably noticed that I've taken a bit of a backseat anyway, and Bushy's been more on the driving seat than me,

and there's a good reason for that. So, and it's not health related, I can say. It's just the fact I want to go and do a bit more fishing, Bushy. Fishing all sorts of ponds, I think, too, Kevin. Yeah. I think I probably, and we'll come back to it towards the end of our chat, But I know you're doing some very interesting work in the realty space. Oh, yeah.

Disruptive, almost transformational change that is potentially going to affect everyone in the industry. That's brought about because there have been a number of changes in the industry too, which we will get into. Because the way we used to ride horses, but we don't anymore. We drive motorcars. I think things change and you have to adapt as well. But it also is going to give me an opportunity to do a bit more painting, Bushy, as well.

Sorry about that, mate. I love it. Masterpieces in the making there, Kevin. Mate, well, let's take a bit of a walk down memory lane then for a second. And I'd love for you to just share what was your original vision for the show back in the early days and what, if anything, has changed in relation to that over time? bushy um i i started in real estate in 1988 so you know i go way way back and i can tell you that when i first started in real estate uh there was no such thing as uh you know computers were only

just coming in uh so all of our contracts were done manually uh we used to use carbon paper between them you know you'd write out one copy and this wonderful thing called carbon paper would give you another copy at the back and everything had to be done like if i sold a house and and the you know one of the parties was down like 30 40 50 60 60 kilometers away i'd have to drive to get their signature and and you know there was no such thing as uh you know you could fax but really it was really really difficult to do that so we were driving a lot so i think things have changed a lot I think when I got into real estate, I loved it immediately. I came out of media.

I was in radio before that, and then I went into real estate. It really fascinated me. I love real estate because it's real estate, but it's also the opportunity to work with people. So an old buddy of mine ran a radio station called 4BC in Brisbane. It's still going here, but he's no longer in charge of it. And I approached him one day and said, hey, let me give you a talk stage. And I said, have you ever thought of doing a real estate show?

He said, oh, actually, yeah, we have. We'd sort of dabble with it. What do you got in mind? And I pitched him on doing a show that would talk to people about buying and selling real estate, but also do valuations. So we were one of the first to do live valuations. And people would ring up and say, you know, I've got a property and such and such. Watch it worth. And we had a reasonably good database in those days.

and we were able to do desktop valuations which is now fairly common but so we opened that up and we got a lot right we got a lot wrong I could say but we had lots of disclaimers over it as well so that show went for 10 years and went it was very good it started off as a two-hour show then they cut it back to an hour they cut it off into two one-hour shows and it was moved around from Saturday to Sunday but it always had a great audience and always rated extremely well so So from that, I remember thinking one day, I need to build my own audience because, you know, this is a great audience for 4BC. They were fully on board with it.

So I actually did this wonderful thing called podcasting. And I would record the show and get it down onto a DVD, then take it away and I'd podcast that show. I'd send the ad, cut the ads out and did a podcast. And that started it. And then I thought, no, hang on, maybe I can do this a little bit better. So I was doing the 4BC show while I was still selling real estate and I would finish the show.

I'd race out and do my open homes on the weekend. And I just like, I was a lot younger then. Maybe that's why I'm suffering so much nowadays because, you know, that was really a big job. A lovely wife, wonderful family who supported me all the way through that. But so then I was doing the 4BC show. I was doing my own podcast and I had my career in real estate. and um that i remember going to a conference that the profession i think was the professionals had on the sunshine coast and i was listening to someone speaking and i thought all these people

have come together to um spend a couple of days out of their business to get educated and to get trained there's couldn't be a better way maybe i can and bearing in mind this was back in 2000 and 12 i think yeah um you know 12 12 odd years ago and you think back of what's happened in that time it's been a lot happened and i thought there must be a better way to communicate this maybe i can use the podcasting as an idea so i spent i spent on another show called ari uncut and um that was real estate uncut aimed straight at professionals at um real estate agents i would then that was then then i was doing the show every day so i was producing five shows in a block with one person and then I'd break it down and send out one each day.

That went really well. It's still around, by the way. It's taken me a bit of a hiatus too, but it's going to change, and I'll tell you why in just a moment. But, you know, the show then morphed into something that was, I was on 2UE in Sydney, then we did it as a national syndication and went around the country, and we were on, I think, around about 40 radio stations around Australia.

So, you know, it was a really busy time, But I think the thing out of all of this, what was your original question about the early days? The thing about all of this is that, you know, it brought together my two loves, which was real estate and communication. And, you know, I still get a buzz as I am now, you know, having this chat with you about my two passions in life, apart from my family, is real estate and communication.

I just love it. And so that's really where it happened. And we built a wonderful base, a very loyal base of people that you and I now talk to through Property Hub. And I'm very proud of the way that's gone. It's what I've called over the years a very sticky audience because they've got a great interest in it. You've only got to go to a barbecue bushy.

They tell someone you're in real estate, oh, how much did that house down the road sell for? What's happening with property prices? It's like a passion for us. And that's what I love so much about it. So anyway, that's a long-winded answer to your question. It's a great answer because, you know, it's been trying to see numbers.

We're up well over 600 shows since you kicked off just in the real estate talk and realty talk space, let alone the real estate uncut, which it's interesting, Bushy. Can I just cut in on you there? I know that 600 number is accurate, it's 620 or something like that. but i can't remember when but there was a stage when i stopped the numbering and i restarted it so i reckon it's up around 700 and when you look at those early days in the shows i was doing three

and four interviews of a show not two as we do now so you know you multiply that by even an average of three you're looking at about 2 000 interviews that we've done over that time and and can i also tell you this says a lot about this industry because i have never ever had to pay for an interview yet never you know people give so freely of their time it's only a matter of ring them as you know you ring them up and say hey listen uh you know can i just get a comment from yeah sure well you know but so they'll always accommodate you and it's it's beautiful it really is fantastic. It's a great thing because I don't think

there's a topic or a person or a state or an area there's no rock that hasn't been turned over on the show and what I've loved about it I was one of the first generation listeners and sort of grew up with the show in relation

to educating myself on what was happening and why and it was just so instructive and so conversational but not biased either that's I think the thing that has made it so sticky is that it's a very even keeled balanced open and transparent view of what's going on it's not you're not trying to sell anyone anything you're just sharing good information from good quality people it's a bit of a rarity in the space mate can i tell you a

little secret bushy uh you know one of the reasons it is what it is is because i'm relatively dumb and and i i really you know like it's the only dumb question is the one you don't ask because even if you think someone knows the answer, there's every good reason why you would ask the question. So I've just really honed my skill around asking questions and not trying to display my knowledge, because a lot of people, you know, when they do an interview, they try to make out, they'll try to tell you how much they know.

And even though I, Peter Camper's a great mate of mine, and, you know, and Peter once said to me, and i'm amazed kevin when i listen to your interviews on 4bc you ask a question i know damn well you know the answer to it but you're asking the question because you want everyone else to know what the answer is rather than hearing it from you and and that that's the truth too you know like when um when i talk to you bushy um it's like you become the expert i'm not the expert i'm just the interviewer i'm the dumb person asking the questions you're the person i want to have either you've got the knowledge so i want to get it out of your skull and and i think

you've got to put away the ego to become a good interviewer and and and acknowledge the fact the person you're talking to knows a lot more than you do so let's get that out of and i think that therein lies the value of really good interviewing and really good content and and uh that's a skill i'm still trying to learn as you well know oh you've made good but you you you're really good it and you know we joked this morning we were talking about this interview and we talked about the knowledge that you've got and and how you can do that so well in your introductions um and you and i've talked about how long your introductions are and bless you they're a commentary on their own but that's because you've got so much damn knowledge you know you're so good at what you do

so continue it mate don't don't let anyone discourage you all right now it's uh as always As a mentor and a friend, Kevin, I couldn't be humbled and more thankful for the opportunity I've had, one, to listen and learn from you, and two, to actively work with you. It's been nearly four years now that I've had the absolute pleasure of spending time with you and to be the grasshopper learning from the master. It's been a... That's enough of that stuff, mate.

but when i was researching for this chat and you prompted me on this you gave me some notes so thank you for that our first show was um that recorded show was 2012 and just to give you an idea the people we had on that show will tell you a lot about how this industry hasn't changed all that much in terms of the topics that we talk about i spoke to rachel barns who was talking about buying property in the usa and how different it is um monique uh monique wakeland who was explaining about capital growth what's capital right um terry rider bless him uh the pros and cons of buying in mining town remember those you know those great conversations about that and uh margaret lomath bless her she margaret wrote so many books she's always been a great

supporter of this show and our show and me and i thank her for that and she talked to she she actually opened her eyes about cash flow and uh you know uh positive cash flow using it as a strategy it's not a strategy it's not a strategy it's an outcome and you know she she's opened her eyes on on many many things but that was one of our that was our first show so it just showed you how things really haven't changed yeah exactly right the fundamental principles underpinning everything we do are pretty much unmoved it's just that just the ever a new clothes really uh yeah and everyone likes to think it's different given that number of shows that you've uh and the people you've interviewed over the years what have been some of your most enjoyable and memorable

chats kevin um i i it's going to be hard for me to to answer that question for you because there have been so many and i guess you might have expected me to say that but can i just tell you going back on something i just mentioned and that was there's no silly question because um as you know i don't script my interviews um i'll start with a topic and i'll start with a question um and i try and work off what people say like you'll you'll make a comment but let's dig into that now if i didn't have that mindset i probably wouldn't wouldn't go deeper into some of the topics you And I'd say, I'm going to ask you about this and this and this and this, and that would frame the interview.

But some of the best interviews I've done are ones that I haven't even planned to do. And the reason for that is things like intergenerational living, urban planning. I know nothing about urban planning. So how could I ever script to do a good interview on urban planning without asking a dumb question like, what is urban planning? What does it mean? How does it work? so they're they're the best kind of questions and that will give you the best kind of interview so i i think um that's probably been and the other interesting aspect too is that i've identified

this there's really only two types of buyers and they're so different so you've got to be prepared to cater for both sides and you've got the investor type who's looking at it from a business point of view and then you've got the emotional buyer who's buying a home for their family two totally different audiences looking for totally different advice um and so that means that you've got to you know really frame your thinking about okay who's going to be the audience for this conversation what kind of questions do i have to ask if it's an investor i'll ask about things like cash flow and finance and structures and all that kind of stuff but people who buy a home they don't care about that because you know that all they care about is is it going to be in the right area

for the schools is it going to begin it will it be is it safe for the family to be there i know a lot of these elements help in investment too but there is a different slant to it if that makes sense well one of us said what one's driven from the heart and emotion the other one's driven from the brain and the rational thinking of the of the head so they are very different one spreadsheet and and and one's the other but uh if you look back on all all of that work that you've uh done and all the people you've talked to and all the subjects you've covered, what have been your sort of top takeaways and learnings from the show, Ken? Yeah, well, once again, that's twofolded.

So let me answer it in this way. For an investor, very much there's no quick fix. You know, like you can't beat solid research. And that's why I think we've seen a lot more investment interest in real estate. And, you know, the rise of buyer's agents is a classic example, you know, where investors are looking for a need to get really good professional advice. And that can only come through a good due diligence. So people are now willing to pay for that, which is effectively what's happening. It's interesting, we had a chat to someone in America

early this morning, and we were talking about the differences there as to what's happening, as you may or may not be aware. I know you're aware, you and I have talked about it, but the commission structures of how they've changed, like it's about 6% commission to sell a house in America compared to 2% to 2.5% in Australia. But in America, that 6% goes to fund the selling agent and the buying agent. And now they've split that. So the buying agent is responsible for getting

their own commission. So that's going to drive the commission for a seller there, but it will also mean that the buyer's agent need to become more skilled. I'm probably right off topic here, but it's an important element as to what's happening in the market right now. So professionals are prepared to pay for that kind of advice and that's what they're doing. It's estimated now there are between four and five thousand buyers agents in australia right now not all active but that's the number that's coming through and they're growing incredibly um so for all those guys to get a living uh they've got to become really really good at what they do so that's from the investor side but the thing i've learned about um people who are buying their own home is that there

are some great lessons they've got to learn about where they get their advice from uh and you know they approach these things emotionally um and if you're looking looking at a seller a seller's hardest job is to divorce their self from the property so because every seller wants more than their house's worth and every buyer wants to pay less than what it's worth or should i just say they don't want to overpay so that that leaves a like an element of compressed compressed air between the two so that that all that that hasn't changed you know that that has not changed so private sellers need to divorce their self from the home understanding when it goes on the market it's no longer their home uh it's just a commodity they need to sell so they've got to remove the

emotion out of it take out all the personal effects and that you know hence the rise of Things like preparing the home for sale, you know, by getting in people to decorate it. Yeah, I think also the other thing that I've learned is that the industry's changed in as much as data has become very, very important, Bushy. and i remember when i started in real estate in 1988 we used to work off a thing called rp data which is still around that cool cool cool logic uh and they were the they were the gatekeepers to the info they had it all they had the whole lot locked up you couldn't get to it you had to be a subscriber to do it and you pay a lot of money so we'd do things like property searches and then we'd have to go to cool logic and get the uh you know all the the rp data reports and

so on and so forth then it opened up then this wonderful thing called the internet came on and it was all made public and real estate agents were no longer the gatekeepers of that information that information is available to everyone now so freely so real estate agents had to change how they work they no longer were the gatekeepers the information they had to help interpret the information and that's brought about a whole change in how we transact how we relate to real that agents and how agents relate to consumers so there's some of the changes that i've noticed um and and they've been quite uh quite substantial changes too even though we think oh the way we buy and sell hasn't changed much it's it's changed a huge amount and stand by because it's going to

it's going to continue to change and they'll yeah yeah we'll we'll talk a little bit about uh someone's i'm probably jumping your head maybe we should take a break too and pay a few bills you think what do you reckon let's do that take a break all right thanks you do the outro go on okay well uh when we come back we we've talked about what's changed we're going to talk about what's actually stayed the same and some of the fundamentals so stay with us at know how property we're more than just the best residential and commercial loan arranger we craft a plan for your lifestyle and future with our three-stage strategy we start with your lifestyle strategy Whether it's finding your dream home in the perfect location or adding to your residential or commercial portfolio, we listen to what you want and need to do.

Next, we create a financial strategy. We dive deep to uncover what you can do, ensuring your finances are set up for success. Finally, we implement our validation strategy. We become your John West of property because it's the property we reject that makes sure you get the best. know-how property smart tailored strategies for your life and investments subscribe now to realty talk it's out every week all right uh welcome back to a great chat we're having with the pioneer and the trusted voice of property uh over at probably 700 plus shows and probably 700 plus people over that time uh we've talked before the break about uh what's changed in the world of

property and there's been a lot of that but there's also a lot that's probably stayed the same Kevin so can you share some of that with us yeah but I have I will sorry you know getting started is the hardest thing and we look at let's look at investors now as a point in question I mean so many so much talk about negative gearing and you know greedy landlords and so on but the majority of people only ever buy one investment property and most people only ever buy one property their whole life one or two that their principal place of residence so people are not not buying houses like you would go and buy groceries or go and buy a motor car they very rarely buy them so getting started is the hardest part it's the biggest investment most people will

make and it's probably the most scary for them but the interesting thing is you know once you get past two and three properties it doesn't become easier you just become smarter uh and and i think therefore you you sort of learn so much as you're going along you listen to so many podcasts and take so much advice but at the end of the day you're going to take responsibility for your own your own actions so you know have the courage to do that and the people you know the great investors i talk to and you do too bushy they're courageous you know they back themselves and you And it's all based on really good knowledge. So that has not changed.

The other thing too, FOMO, fear of missing out, it's probably one of the biggest failures. And a lot of people play on that, that fear of missing out, don't miss out on this opportunity. And you see it all the time. It's really, it's bait. And anyone who has to do that, they're probably not representing a really good product.

I mean, a good product will sell itself, so you don't have to work on the fear of missing out. I think there was a trend with advertising, particularly in newspapers, where foreclosures, as an example, people would flock to that, not realising that a foreclosed property is probably going to sell for more than what you'd buy, because there's so many people trying to get at it, and it just creates demand. So just be very careful of that. I touched on another point too earlier, Bushy, and that was listening to the wrong people. As a real estate agent, I can tell you one of the things that I used to dread was I would go out with a young buyer or a young couple and they'd find the house that they really love

and then they'd say, I want to bring mum and dad back to show them. Yeah, of course, that's their right. And I think it's good to get other advice. But who do you get it from? I can tell you that parents, by and large, and I'm a parent, I've done the same thing. You try to protect your kids. So therefore, they'll try and find reasons for you not to buy it,

not for you to buy it, not to support you. Now, I know that there are some parents who don't fall into that category. By and large, it underscores that piece of advice is that you've got to be very careful who you take advice from. one of the first interviews that we ever did and and i think we've done it probably you know maybe 40 or 50 times in in the life of the shows is about scams um scams are are always there it's just you know they become so creative of how they're going to scam you and rip you off um and the old adage still holds true if it looks too good to be true it probably is you know just

be very very careful with scams you know um yeah i was gonna i was gonna make another crude comment but i won't you know about what is it if it looks like it tastes like it you know the one i'm talking about yeah anyway it's it comes out of the wrong end of the dog yeah i know that's it yeah sorry it probably is yes how do you just be very careful yeah um you know the other one too is that not every investment is a good investment. I will say this, every house will sell. Every house in Australia sells. It just all comes down to the price.

Even, I employed a young salesman once who specialised in getting houses on railway lines, getting houses on busy streets. And I said to him, mate, why are you doing this? He said, let me tell you, every house sells. It all comes down to the price. Get the price right, I'll find the buyer. And he is so right.

like every house does sell but um you know the the point i want to make there is that if you're after a good investment you really have to do your research you've got to research it um you know and you can be is that good advice well i don't know that that's that's my that's what i've lived by anyway yeah absolutely spot on there kevin that we talked a fair bit about the future uh but anyone in property is always interested in what's going to happen tomorrow and let's let's get your views then on where you think the future of property is going to go and that's it then we'll talk about where realty is going to fit into that i think that's probably you know that that's such an open-ended question every time i ask that you know you sort of see the fear in people's eyes

rising no one no one really knows to be honest bushy but where do i see it going i think if you'd asked me that question um two years ago i could never have predicted what's happened in the last couple of years like hey one day you pick the newspaper up in the market crashing the next day you'll pick it up though it might even be in the same newspaper or left and right page but you know what one page is crashing next page it's booming um and the thing about that is that there is no one market like every the every market's different the sydney market moves differently from the melbourne market sydney suburbs move differently from each other so there is no one market so making a prediction is really really hard i think you've got to once again it comes

down to just doing your research knowing you know the type of property you want to buy research it and then you know and then get on with it um well i think the other thing too that's influenced the market greatly is the way we live the size of our families um our demands like i I remember when, you know, our first house that Karen and I purchased was in Toowoomba, and we built it ourselves. It was not ourselves. We had someone build it for us. But it was a three-bedroom brick home, very basic, tiled roof and so on, single level.

And that's perfect for us at the time because we had a growing family. We had two kids, very, very young, and it suited us. But we outgrew it. So then we would go and buy a bigger house. and i look then i look now at what's happened in the transition and i think over the years our principal place of residence has probably changed about 12 times because we've moved it quite a lot and um each one of those houses has a unique characteristic and it has a need for us at that particular time but it's all based around your life and your lifestyle and i look at this

now and i'm speaking to you from you know a fabulous um development that i've spoken to few abouts and over 55s but you know we're all a great bunch of people no kids here um you know we all get on very well together everyone loves a drink and you know we all go bike riding so right now um you know my lifestyle is it's just absolutely fabulous which has prompted me to make the decision i've made about trying to step back so you know the way we've changed and and even thinking about young people now um being or being prepared to buy an investment property and then rent in an area where they want to live which is in a city where they couldn't afford to buy it because they want to be close to the coffee shop so you know the way we live is changing all the

time and and even covid was a big shock for us because we got to learn how we can work from home and work remotely and that propelled things like um you know you know working from home and home office itself so it is more about the less about the size of the property it's all about getting more density in and living closer together so I think that that's that's how that's changed average household size is changing and you you shared a stat with me that I'm going to read you because it's not my set I'll give you credit for it that the average household size has shrunk to four and a half in 1911 to 2.7 now. I mean, that tells you a lot about how things have changed

and how we've got to build differently and cater for people differently. So, you know, that's one of the ways that things have changed. And even high-rise, things like, you know, high-rise units and so on. But I guess one thing that hasn't changed is the fact we all need a roof over our head no matter whether that's a unit or a house um you know we all need and and that's always been my thinking about why real estate is a great investment because it caters to one of our greatest needs and that is to be secure in our own home and have a roof over our head and be nice and warm so you know that hasn't changed bushy uh it's just how we structure

sure it has changed. That's the difference. 100%. And I think that wherever there's a need and there's a problem to solve when it comes to where we live, there's an opportunity for people in property, whether that be buying a home, investing in property, selling property. You buy as an agent, a property manager. As long as there's change, then there's opportunity. You and I have heard the headlines year after year, day after day about how the sky's going to fall in when it comes to property uh there hasn't been a year that's passed where i haven't heard the doom and gloomers talk about it and yet what happens it just continues to to grow and evolve and that's the most exciting thing about property i think is uh the fact that you know

it's a tangible asset it's something that we can we can uh all because our lifestyles are changing that our housing needs are changing it's that change that is the opportunity so rather than be threatened by that change embrace it as the opportunity that it truly is uh leaving for but in sort of speaking on that kevin i know that uh you know a big part of what you've been doing behind the scenes there for quite some time with realty is is really challenging uh and disrupting the space and the in the way we actually look fine secure negotiate and buy property yeah are you able to sort of uh sort of reveal a little bit of uh what yeah yeah to excite us around where that's heading yeah i'd love to in fact we've just concluded a webinar about that so

you know i'm more than happy to talk about that um i think bushy if i could just wind the clock back about four years four years ago i actually sold um my business uh i sold it into uh realty media group there's a great mate of mine now who's the chairman of our company uh he's the ceo of that company troy rushton i know you know uh and uh that was probably one of the most satisfying and successful things i've ever done my entire life uh was selling it in and then started to work in this group which it sort of broadened my horizons greatly because i was very involved in real estate as in real estate and media as in you know what i was doing bringing the two together really media group and it's it's the name doesn't really say what it is it's a tech

company it's not a media group as such but uh we you know we have developed some tech and i'm i'm a shareholder in that company um just you know disclosing that uh i'm a shareholder in that company and we've developed some tech around one of the newer things that have happened in the australian market that's around buyers agents and i mentioned that earlier uh because uh selling my business to troy and his team gave me the opportunity to start to step back a little bit and realize how much i enjoyed doing the shows and communicating with people and learning and building a network that i've now been able to get some leverage off because of the number of people i know but also it gave me an opportunity to i don't know if you know this

bushy but we looked around for some time to try and pull me out of the show so i can concentrate more on on the the business itself and you know that's why we engage with you and that has been so rewarding for me to watch someone like you come through you know develop your own style and you are so knowledgeable of what you do, we couldn't have had a better person do it for us. That's why I've been delighted that you've taken over the stewardship of the show. And we're going to see that morph and continue to change

as you put your stamp on it, and I'm looking forward to watching that grow. But that's off topic. Let me tell you about Realty. We've invented a marketplace in recognition of the fact that the growth of buyers' agents has been driven off the fact that buyers really haven't had much representation in Australia. The thought of a real estate agent representing both a seller

and a buyer at the same time, it just doesn't make sense because a real estate agent gets their commission from the seller, so they effectively work for the seller. They don't work for the buyer. So by and large, buyers have been pretty well unprotected. you know, not saying that anyone's ripped them off, but they probably haven't had the best advice that they could have had.

So hence the rise of buyer agents. Now, buyer agents, because the commissions are so low in Australia, need to get rewarded for that. And I think buyers are understanding that and they're prepared to pay for them. Hence the rise of buyer agents. So what that has caused

is a major disruption in the market. Let me tell you about that. A lot of people don't realise what's happening. And that is that buyers agents will get a buyer then they need to find the stock for that buyer so the way they've been doing that is is is by having to trawl through thousands and thousands of listings on realestate.com.au and domain primarily and they're two platforms that have performed a wonderful service over the years but what what's actually happened is they've created an environment that's now made

australia the most expensive market in the world the market of property in the world bushy nowhere else like in america and the guy we were talking to this morning in america um said that the american market is envious of australia because when you think about it real estate economy and domain have got thousands of people employed to go out and sell marketing for them so they can market their property on a platform that is attracting people who will buy the product. So it's a wonderful business model. It's a fabulous business model.

But what's actually happened, I hope I'm answering your question here, I'm looking around about why, but what's happened is that these buyers are now having to trawl through all of these listings. And because there's more and more buyers' agents coming through, Your seller's agents are starting to deal with them more in tax. There are some offices in Sydney that are now reporting 30% of their sales are coming directly from buyer's agents. Directly from buyer's agents.

Big number. So these listing agents are going to buyer's agents even before they put a property on a portal and giving it to them is what they call pre-market. And they will actually go and they'll do special open houses for buyer's agents because buyer's agents are saying, hey, I need this stock. I need this stock. I've got this buyer.

And when you think about it, it makes sense because a buyer comes in, deals with a buyer's agent. They get pre-approved for finance. They come in fully armed. They're a cash buyer. They're effectively doing it for all purposes. So they get everything set. So from a listing agent's point of view, they're saying to us,

we'd love dealing with these buyer's agents because it makes our job so much easier. And then the buyer's agents are saying, we love dealing with the listing agents because they're giving us the first. So we said, well, hang on, we've got a disjointed market here. Buyer's agents are now bombarding listing agents saying, hey, give me your listings.

Give you an example. We got on the tail end of an email out of just the Townsville market. One agency, one agency is sending out their list of new properties to 150 buyer's agents. It might unmatch, right? So here's our new listings for this week. And then all these buyer's agents,

other than just you them, all competing for these listings and saying, then they've got to trawl through them all to work them out. Now, what we've effectively done is bring the two together and make a marketplace. It's a B2B marketplace. So a buyer's agent will now put a brief in

and they're very good briefs. They go into a fair amount of detail. The buyers are already by that stage, got their finance organised. So then that comes into our platform, listing agents, and we've got about 2,000 of them now, I think, giving us listings. So we take the listing.

We then do an AI buyer match, which is all fully automated. We say, well, this property suits that buyer. We then send an alert to the buyer's agent. So, you know, we're making it easier for them to find the property and we're starting to bring the two together. And we're getting a great reaction to that. I've got to tell you from both sides, listing agents and buying agents, because we've created a marketplace that actually works for them.

So, you know, that's the future of real estate. That is the future. There will always be REA and domain. They could be wrong. We're not out to replace them at all. All we're doing is, because right now, I think the size of the buyer agent market in Australia, I said to you 30%, that's at the top end.

That's right at the top end, the number of transactions. Right now, we estimate it's around about 2% to 5% of all sales in Australia are coming through buyer's agents, and that's growing astronomically. Rapidly. So, you know, our marketplace is actually quite unique. And when you think about it, it's probably not something that REA will want to do because they need the traffic. They need to attract the buyers.

They need to get the traffic to reinforce their advertising strategies. And when you look at it, to get a property onto the marketplace can be as little as maybe a couple of hundred bucks compared to $5,000, $6,000, even $10,000, which is what it's costing now. So, you know, I'm pretty excited about the future. Realty Talk will continue. Realty Talk's an important part of that. It talks to the consumer, the Realty Uncut, which is talking to the professional buyers agents and listing agents. So, you know, the future is pretty rosy and we look forward to continuing to work with you, Bushy, to, you know, keep that all moving forward. Absolutely. Well, I'm very excited about what you're sharing.

I think that the benefits to all with what you're talking about there and removing some of the very obvious and expensive hurdles that are currently put in play that separate the seller from the buyer. but then facilitating that through a professional link where you've got a selling agent and a buyer's agent that are able to match each other very quickly with the AI that you bring together that speeds up the process, that activates that matching far easier than the hours that need to be spent

scrolling through the rest and then having the chats. I think that's revolutionary in the space and the benefits to all and sundry in that exercise. I think some people will ask the question as they do now and say, well, how does that differ from me putting in an alert in the real estate at com.au? Yeah, well, yes, you can do that. Of course, you will get an alert, but it'll be an alert

that will probably happen a day after it's listed. It certainly won't be pre-portal. It won't be, you know, you're not getting ahead of the game. And it's not in their best interest to do that. So, plus the fact the alerts that we send out to buyers' agents based on a lot of really good tech around AI. So, like, for instance, give me an example. You might be looking for a house near a golf course.

You can put in house near a golf course or house with room for a pool. If your search on realestate.com.au has to specifically have those words in the description from the real estate agent for it to be flagged. Whereas our AI search technology, I forget the word for it anyway, it just describes how it works, but it doesn't work on exact words.

It works on inferences and the AI learns that and it's learning it very quickly. So it'll spin up more opportunities. Yeah, it's a very exciting world that we're moving into. I really want to thank you for taking the time to share what the exciting future looks like. But more importantly, Kevin, I just want to take this opportunity to thank you for all the enormous work that you've done in pioneering the property content space and for continuing to educate and inspire us all on all things property. And from a personal perspective, again, I wouldn't be where I am today if it wasn't for your support, guidance and mentorship and friendship too, by the way, mate. Yeah.

It's very important to me. Yeah, it's been an absolutely awesome journey. I've loved what we've created with Property Hub. It creates a vehicle that is going to be able to change and evolve as the conditions change. So, you know, the ongoing Get Invested exercise will continue. Real talk, when it's appropriate and how it's appropriate, we'll continue to do that. So, well, look, I've been looking forward to this conversation for a long time. I really appreciate you being prepared to share not only what's happened in the past,

but more importantly, what's going on in the future. And we look forward to the next chapter, Kevin. Good on you, Bushy. Thanks, mate. And we'll all strength you and the team. And I look forward to continuing to play a part in Property Hub. Just on an aside there too, I'm always going to get the last word in, you know that. But with the Property Hub, it would be great for us to actually encourage other people who do podcasts to get on to Property Hub because it's not about you and I.

It's about the sharing of knowledge. And there are some great podcasters who have spoken to people like Veronica Morgan and, you know, without naming too many names, people who have said, yeah, look, I'd love to have my company on the Hub. So that's the future for the Hub. It's going to bring together all those great information sources. So all power to you and the team, Bushy. Well, that vision excites me because the one thing that does annoy me in property is the competition between players. You and I have never, never had that view. And the more we can get together, share and cooperate together to collectively help those that really want to do well in property, the better off everyone's going to be, mate.

So here's a good idea, Bushy. why don't we organise to have like a conversation like you've had and we put together the top six or ten podcasters in Australia and let's throw in some ideas. You want to work on that, Bushy? I'm going to make that happen. Yeah, we ought to work on that. Let's keep the conversation going, Kevin. Good on you, mate. All the best and thank you. This is Realty Talk powered by realty.com.au. Well, that's it. Make sure you join us for more property news each week on Realty Talk and Get invested by subscribing to the Property Hub on all podcast players. Join the conversation on Facebook too. As I say thanks to our supporters and content partners Realty.com.au, BMT Tax

Depreciation, Know Our Property Finance and Apiro Marketing. I'd like to say a special thanks to Brad Beer and the team at BMT Tax Depreciation. Brad joined us as a sponsor and a supporter almost at the very beginning of what was then real estate talk. It says a lot, in my opinion, about BMT's commitment and their passion to helping property investors get the very most from their investments. And we thank them sincerely for that support over so many years. But for now, all the best.