Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk: Achieving equity growth

Episode Date: September 9, 2023

Given the massive uplift in property values post-pandemic with prices lifting properties to the tune of 20% to 50% against the backdrop of average annual growth of under 7%, many locations and property prices are likely to flatline and go sideways over the next 8-10 years.  So how can you continue to build equity in your property in this climate?   This week Bushy is joined by  Joe Tucker, co-founder of the hugely popular Aus Property Investors Facebook Forum to open up a discussion about the opportunities.   In the second part of the show, we have asked John Manciameli from Hunterwood Solutions to suggest different types of ownership vehicles that you have at your disposal to secure property and the pros and cons of these in terms of capacity, cost, protection, and risk. NEW – Join the Property Hub community on Substack! Sign up to get Australian property news, opinion, and episodes in your inbox: https://propertyhubau.substack.com/ Subscribe to RealtyTalk on the Property Hub channel: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Email Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media. Business and partnership enquiries: [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I was fortunate to meet with a number of successful property investors at a roundtable just recently. The forum was set up to get a good view on possible growth opportunities for the group and for its individual members. Hello, I'm Kevin Turner and welcome to this week's Realty Talk Show. One of the big learnings for me from that forum was the challenge of ensuring continued equity growth in a portfolio after the events of the past couple of years. The market has expanded so rapidly over the past 24 months where people just think, well, I'll just buy any house and it'll be worth, you know, 500,000.

It's now worth 600,000. That last 24 months is not what the next 24 months is going to look like. We address those challenges today as Bushy talks to Joe Tucker about manufacturing equity in your portfolio. Also today, we look past your existing property portfolio and uncover different ownership options

if you're considering adding more property. At the time of your purchase, you go off to your accountant and create a bear trust. And the bear trust, because of legislation, can hold the property until such time that the self-managed student fund does not have any more debt. Mancia Mellie joins Bushy in the second part of today's show. If this is your first time with us, well, welcome.

And you're going to find us on all podcast players and through the Southern Cross Oz Stereo Network. If you like the show, and I hope you do, hit the subscribe button and help us continue to bring you the best guests. We'll be back in just a moment as Bushy kicks off this week's show. Property deductions can save you thousands of dollars each year.

To make sure you maximise deductions, you need to work with the most experienced quantity surveyor in the country. BMT Tax Depreciation is the leading specialist in the industry. They've completed over 700,000 tax deduction schedules for residential investment and commercial properties Australia-wide. BMT guarantee to find double your fee in the first full financial year deductions. Call BMT on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation free quote. Realty Talk and your host, Bushy Martin.

Given the massive and across-the-board uplift in property values that occurred during the 18 months post-pandemic, that saw the rising tide of prices lifting all properties to the tune of anywhere between 20% to 50% in this very short space of time, against the backdrop of long-term average annual growth of just under 7%, then many locations and property prices are likely to flatline and go sideways over the next five to 10 years, unless the location is one of the few that's going to experience new growth drivers resulting from the combination of new infrastructure, new industry and employment, and strong and growing income demographics. So how can you continue to build wealth in your property

in this current climate? Well, you need to get creative and manufacture equity by adding value. And Joe Tucker, who's the Director and Head of Research at Property Principles by his agency group, as well as being the co-founder of the hugely popular Oz Property Investors Facebook Forum, joins us now to open your eyes and ears to the opportunity.

So welcome back to Realty Talk, Joe. Thanks for having me again, Bushy. Wonderful to see you as always. Always, mate. Love your company and really enjoyed having the opportunity to press the flesh in Geelong not too long ago, which was a lot of fun. But mate, a really good topic for you to sort of dive into today, given the challenges that a lot of areas are going to experience in property moving forward.

So to kick things off, can you explain the fundamental principles of adding value to property? Yeah, well, it's one of these things when the market has expanded so rapidly over the past 24 months where people just think, well, I'll just buy any house and it'll be worth $500,000. It's now worth $600,000. That last 24 months is not what the next 24 months is going to look like. So we need to start getting a little bit more creative with the way that we purchase our properties. And a great way to do that is through adding value, which is kind of what we talk about a lot. it just allows you to also accelerate your property journey quicker because you get that

equity uh you get that equity uplift um and the good thing is with property it's one of the only assets that allows you to be an active investor and allows you to push that value so you can buy a property for five hundred thousand dollars spend fifty thousand dollars on a renovation and then it's worth six hundred thousand dollars that fifty thousand dollars of cash that you've just put in that's a hundred percent return on capital like no nothing else gives you that return but then you can then use that equity to then go again um but i guess the core fundamental principles of adding value is find a problem and create a solution but when you're starting out maybe just don't find too big of a problem that you can you can't solve because that's where you

can get a little bit too uh too excited about it but um i always like to think about uh frozen equity for people that are a little bit scared to maybe do a full renovation project you can still freeze equity into the future be it renovation subdivision developments things like that you don't actually need to be an expert renovator right now but if you can buy a property that you can add a room to add some value to you can then when you're comfortable dethor that equity and when you need it you can then yeah leverage that so um that was long-winded but i hope it answered your question well and truly yeah you covered the full breadth of the exercise there beautifully done now with every reward there are risks attached so what are some of the risks

involved and and how can they be mitigated with that well the biggest risk that i see all the time is people over capitalizing on the numbers and not building to the demographic not renovating to the demographic of people that actually live in the area now the the a great way to do that is to do your area research. But the best way to do that area research is call up the property managers. They are the unsung heroes of property. I absolutely love property managers

and they just don't get the respect that they deserve. They will tell you exactly what that area needs. They will say, hey, actually, did you know you could open this wall up and get a free flowing kitchen, which would then help get this type of tenant. So what people do though is they overcapitalize. So they'll get a granite bench top

and they'll spend $20,000 on this benchtop, but it's not Double Bay in Sydney. It's, you know, Logan. They should be spending, you know, $10,000 on a kitchen renovation, not $20,000. So I see a lot of challenges in that. A couple of other challenges is not having the right team in place.

People think that these renovations, these ugly ducklings, as we call them, tight properties, you need to do everything, but you don't. I help people do this, right? Like it's something that you can outsource to somebody else to be able to boost it. So you don't need to be an absolute expert renovator. You don't need to do that.

You can get the right team. But to DIY it and do it yourself, speak to your property managers and they'll give you some amazing insights on it. Yeah, really good advice there, mate. So diving into renovation then, what are some of the great renovation techniques that can actually maximize returns in your view? Well, the biggest bang for your buck is everyone's favorite. um painting you know paint gives you it just adds so much value it gives you that fresh feel of just

walking in um my other little favorite one is updating all the light switches and um power points because you know how they get that yellow faded tinge you've got this fresh brand new white wall and all of a sudden that yellow tin shines through but you can get an electrician to fix them up in in no time and not spend very much um the next biggest bang for your buck is adding a bedroom or adding a bathroom. Recently, we bought a three-bedroom property that had two living areas, one massive living area. So when we added the fourth bedroom, it didn't really take away from the property. It actually added to it. What I do see sometimes is someone will create a fourth bedroom out of a living space when there's only one. Don't get caught out in that because people

still need a place to live. But when you do that, when you do add value via an extra bathroom, an extra bedroom you are going into the next tier on rp data we are not when we renovate to keep we're not trying to entertain the the owner occupier market we're trying to highlight um and get the the uh the appraisal we need the valuer to see value in our property so as soon as we go from a 3-1 to a 4-2 automatically he has no choice but to put us in that category which is depending on the area, $100,000, $200,000 more. And that's instant equity that you've just created out of very minimal effort. So I like those type of little tips and tricks. Yeah. Some great tips and tricks there. Let's talk about the sort of bigger entity and that's

getting into the development subdivision area. When thinking about those, what's the best way for someone to go about getting their head around it, Joe? Well, it's pretty big. It can feel pretty big it can feel overwhelming but the best way is just to call the local council and become an expert in the three or four little pockets and hopefully they're within the same council so you can just understand what are the requirements what are the zoning so what zone am i in am i in general neighborhood am i in high diversity neighborhood um high residential what is that and what can fit on a block then understand what are the minimum lot sizes so the reason why we want to do subdivision is because if you buy a brand new house and land on a 300 square meter block, you only have to wait

for organic growth. So you're forced. If you buy a property that you can add value to, you can then do a renovation that then boom, gives you an extra $50,000 of equity. Great. But if you have subdivision potential or development potential down the line, you can then again, unfreeze that equity when you need it. But again, you don't need to be the expert. There are buyers agent slash development agents, right? Like what a buyer's agent is, development agents exist, they're called developers, and they will handhold you through the entire process. But you don't need to be an absolute expert now, just understand the flood zones, the bushfire zones, what an easement is, if that's across the lot, and then you'll be able to say, great, this is a 600 meter square lot,

I need the frontage of the house to be a minimum of 18 square meters in South Australia. I'll just talk to that as an example. Great. This property can be subdivided because there's no flood, there's no fire, and there's no easement. Great. That's all I need to know. And in 10 years time, I'll unlock that equity.

And I don't need to know how to develop. I don't need to be the expert in subdivision. I'll just call my developer and they'll do it all for me. And you can be as hands-off as possible. or you can try and do it yourself but you know focus on what you're the best at but think about that when you're next purchasing a property is there subdivision potential is there value add that's the kind of way i like to think about it yeah i love it and as you well say it's not as if you have to do it now or do it straight away and do it yourself you're buying the future potential

that you can then unfreeze and access the equity uh either by selling or developing or whatnot but and you're immediately starting to lock in additional value in there for equity in the property just by being smart about it from day one have it locked away in your head can i can i do this and then ask the question to a town planner and it's amazing how many town planners there are in australia that are just sitting on a desk ready to answer that question for you because they live and breathe this stuff and they just want to know yes you can actually you can put a house here and one on the back oh perfect i now have an extra opportunity i love it absolutely love it mate Well, as always, Joe, thanks for the very timely insights

and you've yet again reinforced the need to be creative and proactive when it comes to building wealth through property rather than just sitting back and hoping that the market's going to do all the work because, as you and I both know, where there's a will, there's always a way in property. So I'm going to encourage everyone who's listening and interested in adding value by manufacturing equity in their properties to reach out to you at propertyprinciples.com.au

and to join your rapidly growing cast of thousands in your highly engaged Oz Property Investors Facebook community. So thanks again for your generous time on the show again today, Joe. Thank you very much, Bushy. Love to chat to you guys. Have a good one.

Successful property investment is a game of finance. Do you have the right team and the right game plan? Realty Talk is brought to you by KnowHow Property. More than mortgage brokers, Bushy Martin and his team of investment architects set you up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs, tax, risk and stress while increasing your capacity for growth. Know-how has helped over 1,900 homeowners and investors secure more than $800 million in property wealth. So get set to live more, work less and live your legacy. Want to know how to invest in your freedom?

Visit knowhowproperty.com.au. This is Realty Talk, powered by realty.com.au. As many property purchasers are currently facing challenges in adding to their portfolios due to lending restrictions and borrowing capacity constraints, we thought it opportune to revisit the different types of ownership vehicles that you have at your disposal to secure property and the pros and cons of these in terms of capacity, cost, protection, and risk. And before we get into it, I need to state the bleeding obvious that everything we're going to share today is general in nature and is no way intended as financial advice. So please

ensure that you consult independent and investment savvy accountants and allied finance professionals to ascertain what's best for your specific situation and risk profile before deciding on the best ownership structure and strategy for you. I'm joined by fellow finance broker John Nancy Melly from full-service financial services company Hunterwood Solutions. So to kick things off, can you sort of give us a rundown on the six main asset holding entities that investors can choose when buying a property? Yeah, great question. And it's important that listeners are aware of this because it can have an effect, as you know, Bushy, on your tax and finance and lending. So the first one, obviously, is just your personal name. That's easy.

moving on we could look at joint tenants where you have your 50 50 ownership uh then you could have moving on to your third one you have tenants in common where you could skew the ownership to a person who pays lease tax for example we could touch on that later some of the fourth some of the others are the fourth one is a special purpose vehicle that seems to be running around the internet at the moment and everyone's contacting me regarding spvs and what the hell is that yep um we could look at buying a property in a company i don't really see that but it does happen um and then the last one i'm correct me if i'm wrong bushy i think a self-managed super fund would be classified as a different form of asset holding entity yeah absolutely it's a very different

ownership structure with that different tax treatments and and a whole bunch of other things so yeah spot on mate that's a really good summary yeah what i'd love to get your thoughts and from a finance perspective, what are the implications for each of these entities in that sense? I love what you're doing with this segment, Wushu, because as you know, it really does have an effect on your borrowing capacity, let alone your tax and things like that. So we'll just keep it to the finance side of things.

So we know that there are lenders that are going to look at asset-holding entities in different ways and allocate the liabilities in different ways as well. So if you have joint tenants, which is 50-50, then you know that the liability is pretty much going to still be 100%, but there will be some who have common debt reducer policies that if the other party can prove that they can carry their liability, then there will be some forgiveness, if you like,

on your partner's property and finance, sorry. with the other ones like tenants in common this can really help you skew the revenue into your name so if you put 90 in your name and 10 in your partner's name you can really skew the revenue from your rental property that can really help you down the track with your second or third or fourth acquisition yeah and it significantly improves the cash flow affordability when you do that because you're you're keeping more of the the couple's hard-earned money in their pockets rather than going to the tax office. So that's a good thing to consider early on.

What about the others, mate? Yeah, so moving into, say, I don't know if you want to touch on SPVs. Yeah, let's dive into those in a bit more detail later on because, as you well said, there's a lot of talk in the industry about those at the moment and a lot of accountants out there pushing them as exercises. But perhaps just touch on the key bits and then we'll drill down on that a little bit later on.

Okay. um self-managed super funds oh no trusts people can buy discretionary or unit trusts um uh hybrid trust is the third one which is not as common nowadays so we know that using those vehicles will limit the amount the number of lenders the example of uh some lenders won't even touch trusts and other lenders will so you you'll you'll still have plenty of choice it's just that it'll be a dozen lenders rather than normal 30 lenders and again the type of trust that you set up will have an impact so a hybrid trust is a bit of a no-no as you know bushy yeah um most people will do with discretionary trust otherwise and colloquially known as a family

trust um and there's also a unit trust and there's there's a there's an opportunity for you to negatively gear in a unit trust there is a way to do it and i actually personally do that there's this belief to say that trust you can't carry losses forward you can but it's with a unit trust and not a discretionary trust and um for those of you who are listening and want to know more feel free to reach out to me but there is a way to do it uh we can't do it through the the the best vehicle of the radio or youtube but yeah that's that's another massive way of looking at asset holding entities um self-managed funds pushy should we touch on that yeah absolutely let's touch on those mate because again there's been increased talk around it given that people

are struggling through the normal channels uh there's a lot of people out there pushing self-managed super so i'd love for you to dig into that if you can please john yeah so uh it's interesting right now the amount of people as we go to recording in july 2023 the amount of people that have gone on max debt. Let's switch into a self-managed super fund. So in a nutshell, it's an entity that allows you to grab the super, create a pool of money, and you as a director of that super fund can invest it however you want.

And the banks will lend you up to 80% of the value of the property for residential. Bushy, what is it for commercial nowadays? Would it be up to 70? Yeah, 60% to 70%, depending on the lender, of course, but it's around that sort of figure. So lower LVR, you need a bigger deposit with those than the resi space.

But certainly, increasingly, as you would have seen, there's lenders sort of moving back into that space after getting concrete a few years ago. Given the interest that's now there and the number of people who are putting up their hand for it, it's actually the lending criteria around that are getting a little bit easier in the context. Thank God. Yeah, thank goodness.

Yeah. So in the resi space, the maximum LVR is 80%. The onus is on you to provide a 20% deposit plus costs. And then finally, some lenders will have what's called a liquidity test, which is roughly 5% of the purchase price. So if you bought a house for $100,000, the bank wants to see $5,000 sitting in either stocks or liquid cash, just in case you can't make repayments.

Okay. um it's a little bit complicated because we know that you can't buy a property in the name of your self-managed super fund we know that you have to buy it in a bear trust not in the name of your self-managed super fund so please please please as you know bushy don't buy it in the name of your self-managed super fund at the time of your purchase you go off to your accountant and create a bear trust yeah and the bear trust because of legislation can hold the property until such time that the self-managed super fund does not have any more debt in it.

Yes. So a fantastic way to diversify your super, fantastic way to do greater cash on cash returns or increase your ROI. Please speak to your financial planner and accountant, obviously. But, yeah, I'd really encourage you to have a look at it the obvious benefits such as no capital gains tax in retirement spot on and only 15 tax on the way in and the way through so you know for most people that's a considerable deduction uh in that context

and for properties that you're looking to hold as legacy properties that you want to hold post retirement or to hand on to family there's some there's some real benefits in considering that so but like everything uh there is considerable cost to set it up there's considerable administration costs in a self-managed super fund because the legislative requirements around that and the compliance are very specific so make sure you've got a really good accountant on board who understands how that all works and then he's going to look after you not only in the setup and the establishing the bear trust as you've well said but then the ongoing administration of that so you need to have enough time you need to have the right team because if you start

missing dotting the i's and crossing the t's in self-managed super you can get yourself into some hot water with some pretty big penalties so i do i have helped you understand your responsibilities i've written an e-book called an insider secrets to buy a property in a self-managed super fund so you're welcome to contact bushy and myself and i'll be happy to provide it to the listeners yeah brilliant offer yeah and a great resource for people to really get their head around that Now, I want to sort of dive into SPVs, if we can, or special purpose vehicles, as it's better known and better termed, John, because, you know, there is a lot of talk around it. So can you sort of break it down into simple language? Can you explain what is an SPV?

How is it set up and how does it differ from the normal property loan perspective? Great. All right. So special purpose vehicles. uh so you know sometimes you'll read in the media about you know the bus driver who has 30 properties and you're wondering yourself how the hell did they get the borrowing to make that happen and and so occasionally you'll see an article in the daily telegraph or whatever and the person will talk about their spv special purpose vehicle and so what what they try what it tries to do is

mitigate your personal borrowing limitations. And how it works is it's essentially a trust where if you've purchased a property and it's a property that pays for all the expenses, your mortgage, your council rates, your property management fees, the way some lenders will look at it is that it's an ecosystem that is self-fulfilling, that doesn't leak any money in the sense of you're not having to put any money into the SPV to fund the property. So if you have an ecosystem, if you put one of a better word, that pays for itself, then there are some lenders

that will sort of discount the liability associated with that because, and correct me if I'm wrong, Bushy, the legislation is not the same because it's not of personal legislation that falls under what's called nccp requirements and it's more of a it's more of a business requirement is that it falls into corporate law not not the the residential requirements so there's there's very different uh stipulations and and requirements around that sector compared to the the personal lending situation and therefore providing that special purpose vehicle is standalone and it's positively geared at all times, then there's no obligation

on the borrower to actually declare that if they're looking to borrow through the normal residential channels. Yeah. So through that normal residential channel that you mentioned, Bushy, the banker is required under legislation to ensure that they don't take a loan that's unsuitable for them and so there's these other sets of legislation that business and corporate stuff that you mentioned that the bank can go right we're now talking about a business environment this whole loan that's not unsuitable and legislation type stuff doesn't really apply so it's becoming quite typical to set up SPVs so that you can continue to build a property portfolio So that's the main advantage where it can,

under the right circumstances with the right lenders and the right bankers, set you up for very strong borrowing. However, there are some drawbacks. Yeah, but a lot of you drive into those. Yeah, let's walk through those. I've got a number of them. Yeah, no, far away, John, because I think it's important that people understand not only the rewards of building a portfolio

but the risk that they might be putting themselves in. So I'd love for you to shed some light on that, John. Okay. So the first one, I suppose, is that there's no guarantee that a lender will look at your SPV and say, yep, we'll disregard the liability in that first property you bought in a trust, okay? They may do it now, but that doesn't mean

that they will do it tomorrow. So you run the risk of setting up these structures in the hope that down the track some other lender or the same lender will move forward with you, right? So that's the one overarching thing. You've got to go into this, maybe just saying to yourself, I have to understand that I may not get future borrowings using this sort of setup. The second part is the cost.

So every time you buy a positively geared property and put it into an SPV, your accountant is going to set up a trust every single time. And so there's a setup cost. And then every year there is the tax costs. so if you can imagine if you once you get to you know quite a few properties five ten properties then you're paying a year for those so let's keep that in mind in terms of upfront costs and ongoing costs so um they're the two main ones bushy if you for the couple of others Yeah, there's a couple that I might mention,

and that is that to produce a property in a vehicle that is positive cash flow, particularly with rates where they're at and potentially where they're going to be for a period of time, it generally means that you're going to have to put significantly more cash into the deal. So it's really only going to suit investors who have considerable equity that they can put

towards the exercise because you don't need to borrow too much to suddenly tip it into negative territory, and then it does start having the impact on an individual's financial capability. So make sure you cover that off. And if you do go down this road, you need to ensure that whichever lender you're looking to get behind the exercise doesn't impose any personal guarantees.

Because as soon as there's a personal guarantee hidden in the paperwork, then potentially that will disrupt the ability to continue to add properties because that then may fall into the equation of creating the need to declare that if it's going to have an impact on your financial position. So there's some good ones. But, again, it's like everything. You need to do some homework and assess the viability

and the appropriateness of that for your particular situation. I encourage those that are looking at increasing their capacity and needing to add properties to their portfolio to reach out to John and myself to talk about that further. And, John, as always, I really want to thank you for these great insights around this whole ownership exercise because it's going to have a massive impact not only on your capacity but also your cash flow affordability.

So, you know, you need to choose the right vehicle and talk to a number of people. accountants traditionally have the right to advise around ownership structures but equally a lot of the time I find quite a few accountants don't look at the actual cash flow impacts of those entities so you probably would have seen this yourself too John where there's a in the last couple of years there's been a big focus on investors buying in properties in trusts in various form of trusts but because all the tax benefits and incentives are quarantined within that trust vehicle quite often the weekly holding cost of hanging onto a property jumps up quite

significantly so that that needs to be taken into account when you're choosing whether you're buying those as joint tenants that's tenants in common in a trust through a self-managed super fund or the special purpose vehicles that we've spoken about pick the right one to suit your circumstance today and then re-look at that every time you're adding your property make sure you're getting the right vehicle at the right time to suit your ongoing strategy. So look, John, I just want to thank you again. It's very clear, I think, that if you want to optimise your opportunities in property, you do need to think outside the square and explore all of the options by surrounding yourself with independent improvement professionals, particularly in the areas of

accounting and finance. But I also want to finish with a word of caution. Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. You need to balance the potential rewards by fully considering all of the risks. Because when things get tough or tight in the future, the broker or the bank giving you the line to buy the extra money for that property that you're securing through the normal channels isn't going to be around to help you make your repayments. They're not the ones taking the risk, you are. And remember that building wealth is a marathon, not a sprint. It's about endurance and hanging in there for 15 years plus and surviving the ongoing cash flow affordability that period so that you can last long enough to actually reap

rewards. Don't shipwreck yourself by going too hard and too far too early. Unfortunately, as you and I know, John, the road to financial freedom is led with the roadkill of impatient get rich quickers. So be conservative, considerate of how you're going to afford the repayments long term and during periods when things get tough. And this doesn't mean being ultra conservative because stretching safely is actually a good thing to consider. But don't be blind to the fact that you have to make the repayments regardless of what's happening with interest rates and make sure that you factor in long-term that at some stage

it's likely that your interest-only repayments, if you're doing that for your investment portfolio, will have to switch to principal and interest and you need to be able to afford these extra repayments that could jump anywhere more than 35% at that point in time. Now, just to reinforce, I'm talking about being sensitive and safe when it comes to how much you're borrowing and building considerable rainy day savings

or equity contingency reserves. So all we're really saying is that you need to plan for the worst and then expect the best because if you overextend, you risk not being able to hold a good quality property for the long period of time required. And if this occurs, the chances are you're not going to end up making any money. so before you do anything turn to reputable and proven independent finance professionals who are

investment savvy like the teams at hunterwood solutions and know how property finance and john i really want to thank you for taking the time to share your words of wisdom on this very important topic i'm very humbled bushy thank you so much it's been a lot of fun property depreciation is the natural wear and tear of a building and its assets property investors can claim depreciation as a tax deduction each financial year. Depreciation is a non-cash deduction. This means you don't need to spend any money in order to claim it. On average, BMT tax depreciation fined residential investors almost $9,000 in first full financial year deductions. Call BMT on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation-free quote.

week. And that brings us to the end of this week's show. A big thanks to both Joe and John, as well as Bushy for a great show. Make sure you don't miss a single episode of Realty Talk or Bushy's Get Invested podcast delivered to you each and every week. And you can do that by subscribing to the Property Hub now on your favorite podcast player or wherever you're listening to or watching this show. Thanks to our supporters and content partners, realty.com.au, BMT Tax Depreciation, Know How Property Finance, Get Rare Property and DePiro Marketing. I'm Kevin Turner and on behalf of Bushy and the Property Hub team, we look forward to seeing you again next week.