Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk: Christopher’s predictions for 2024

Episode Date: November 25, 2023

We’re at the time of year again when everyone is wondering what’s in store for property in the year ahead, particularly in light of another incredible year that’s continued to defy most expectations. So Bushy and Kevin are delighted that Louis Christopher joins them in this week’s show to go into some detail from his Christopher’s Housing Boom and Bust Report from SQM Research.  We talk to the new President of the Real Estate Buyers Association, Melinda Jennison,  about low barriers to entry into the industry. NEW – join our Facebook group, The Property Hub Collective: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1857513011165686 Join the Property Hub community on Substack! Sign up to get Australian property news, opinion, and episodes in your inbox: https://propertyhubau.substack.com/ Subscribe to RealtyTalk on the Property Hub channel: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Email Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media. Business and partnership enquiries: [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello once again and welcome to this week's Realty Talk show. Well we're at the time of year again aren't we when everyone is wondering what's in store for property next year particularly in light of another incredible year that's continued to defy most expectations. So Bushy and I are delighted that Louis Christopher joins us in today's show to go into some detail from his Christopher's housing boom and bust report from SQM Research. That is at what I regard a very restrictive level. It's causing stress out there in the community. And I think what we're going to see over the course of 2024 as a result

is a rise in distressed selling activity. And as mentioned before, a step back from would-be home buyers. The report, released this week, gives a full breakdown of every postcode in the country, covering current market statistics and postcode investor ratings. I will have a link in the show description so you can get your own copy. And I've got to say, at $59.95, it's well worth it. Also this week, Bushy talks to new president of the Real Estate Agent Buyers Association, Melinda Jennison, over concerns about the conduct of some buyers agents in Australia.

We've had a huge increase in the number of buyers agents that have entered our industry. And what that means is that there's more and more entrants offering services to consumers. However, not everybody provides the same level of service or the same level of professional in how they deliver their service. And we'll hear from Melinda in just a moment. Hey, if this is your first time with us, welcome. You're going to find us on all podcast players and through the Southern Cross Oz Stereo Network. If you like the show, make sure you hit that subscribe button. Help us continue to bring you the best guests.

Join the conversation anytime, of course, on Facebook at the Property Hub Collective. And don't forget, we'll have our Q&A webinar on the 4th of December. Back in just a moment as Bushy kicks off this week's show. property deductions can save you thousands of dollars each year to make sure you maximize deductions you need to work with the most experienced quantity surveyor in the country bmt tax depreciation is the leading specialist in the industry they've completed over 700 000 tax deduction schedules for residential investment and commercial properties australia-wide bmt guarantee to find double your fee in the first full financial year deductions call bmt on 1-300-728-7278

today for an obligation-free quote. Realty Talk and your host, Bushy Martin. Now, given relatively low barriers to entry, there's been considerable chat in property investment circles in recent times about the merits or otherwise of the rapidly growing buyer's agent sector. And to combat this, the Real Estate Buyer's Agents Association, or REBA, has been working very hard for many years now to ensure that members abide by a strict code of professional conduct. And to further strengthen and energise buyers' aged professionalism and their standing in the industry, Reba has recently appointed a new president, Belinda Jennison, from Streamline Property Buyers in Queensland. And she joins us today to reveal her future vision.

So welcome to Realty Talk, Belinda. Thank you for having me, Bushy. I'm excited to be here and to update the industry and what we are doing as an association group at Reba. Absolutely. Well, to spell out and start off with the absolutely obvious, Melinda, what is REBA? Well, REBA is the acronym. It does stand for the Real Estate Buyers Agents Association of Australia. So we are the peak professional body representing buyers agents across the nation. The body was established back in the year 2000. So we've existed for a number of years. And the purpose behind the original establishment was to raise the bar, set minimum standards for what we believe the industry requires for consumers to ensure that they're working with a reputable buyer's agent, and also just to ensure that people are adequately qualified, adequately licensed, and also adequately insured to represent buyers.

Yeah, awesome. Given that the association has been going for, you know, a couple of decades or more now, what's your vision for the organisation in the future? Yeah, there's been a change of the guards just recently. Our past president, Kate Bakos, has stepped down after a number of years of leadership and, of course, prior to her, Rich Harvey.

So, you know, first and foremost, I do want to carry on the legacy of past leaders of our organisation. They've certainly set up an establishment that does raise the bar in terms of professional standards within the industry. So, of course, maintaining those professional standards and ensuring that new buyers' agents that join our association do meet the code of conduct that we set in place

as a requirement for buyers' agents to act professionally on behalf of buyers. That's first and foremost. Secondly, I do believe that REBA will be working in the years ahead on establishing some strategic alliances, And this is already something that Reba's been working on over the last 12 months or so, strategic alliances with each real estate institute across different states. So just recently, I presented on behalf of Reba at the Real Estate Institute of Queensland, where they ran a specific program tailored for buyers agents. And of course, there's not a lot of training that's specifically tailored for buyers agents.

So we believe through collaboration with each real estate industry partner within each state, it's going to actually raise and elevate the amount of training that will be available to buyers agents. And of course, just further enhance consumer awareness. So a lot of consumers are not aware of what a buyer's agent's role is in the real estate transaction. It is an emerging industry here in Australia. It is more established overseas. So really helping to educate the consumer on, one, how to select a buyer's agent that will look after their best interest, but also how to ensure that they're going to be best represented throughout that real estate transaction and the value that a buyer's agent can actually add to that transaction. So that's a big vision. I've got big shoes to fill, but I'm really passionate about what I do and helping to forge ahead a new pathway for our association.

Fantastic. Well, I can hear the passion and the energy coming out of his speak there, Melinda. So why is a revitalised strategic direction for REBA important? I think the most important thing is that REBA as an association group needs to adapt to the changing environment. So if we reflect back on the last five or six years here in Australia, we've had a huge increase in the number of buyers agents that have entered our industry. And what that means is that there's more and more entrants offering services to consumers. However, not everybody provides the same level of service or the same level of professional in how they deliver their service. And so I believe that there is a requirement to not only educate the consumer on what we believe is the minimum standard that they should expect, but also educate those buyers agents that may already be operating in the industry or that may be thinking of entering the industry so that they too can understand what a minimum service recommendation looks like.

And so as an organisation group, as a professional body representing buyers' agents, we want to ensure that consumers receive the service that they're paying for. It's not just a quick transaction. It's an advocacy role. So we are protecting their interests. We are ensuring that the due diligence is completed. We are providing accurate price guidance. We are not there to facilitate a fast, quick transaction at an inflated price. We're here to get the best outcomes for property buyers.

And that sometimes means working collaboratively with sales agents, but certainly not with sales agents to get the desired result for our clients. So there's a big part in ensuring that we not only educate consumers, but also educate buyers agents that are entering the industry because there has been so much change over the last five years. So we really want to make sure that we are raising the bar for all because we don't want our industry to get a bad name because of some that may not be maintaining the standard that we recommend. Yeah, that's fantastic. And you've reinforced some really important distinctions there, both for the industry and for those that are looking to secure property. So jumping forward, then what are some of the risks that exist in the buyer's agent industry within Australia then, Melinda? well again i think that leads back to you know what i was just discussing the fact that our industry is growing rapidly there is risk to the consumer in not understanding what the full scope

should look like and there's the risk therefore that the perception of the value out of our service could decline over time unless the the association group as a whole but also those buyers agents that are operating in this space raise the bar. So at least consumers that partner with a REBA accredited buyer's agent, they know they're going to get someone that meets minimum standards. We are not an association group where people pay their membership fees and have immediate access. With members that join our association, they are required to prove that they are adequately licensed in every state that they operate within. They are required to show their processes so that we as an association can assess their processes against what minimum standards should

be within the industry. And unfortunately, not everybody that applies to our association group actually gains access. But once they do, they then get further training, further skill development, and then that raises the bar as a whole within the industry. So I think that the changing environment across the buyer's agent space has been a big risk to the industry. But I also think the interruption of AI. There's so much artificial intelligence. I feel that a lot of people, especially property investors, more and more feel like they can rely purely on data to make property selections. It's a big risk in my opinion. I think data is great at a macro level. It can lead you to a location however nothing can replace on the ground knowledge local knowledge

understanding buyer depth understanding how many people are turning up to open homes understanding what the owner occupier or the tenant want in a particular home in a particular location data doesn't lead us to that granular information and so there'll always be a place for buyers agents is just managing how we integrate that artificial intelligence with our on-the-ground knowledge. And I don't think there's any better solution than combining both so that people get the best possible outcomes. I'll also say that the buyer's agent space has become so much more competitive as well. So I feel that buyer's agents as a whole will be looking for their own competitive advantage within the marketplace and differentiating themselves from others,

Because as more and more buyers agents enter the industry, it will be important for consumers to be able to filter through buyers agents to work out who's going to be the best partner for them. So there's a lot of risks that we see in the future. And, of course, as an association group, we are aware of those risks and we're trying to help educate people around how to navigate through those risks in the future. Yeah, beautifully said. i can't agree with you more in relation to that that blend between uh the the data the desktop stuff uh but the real need for intimate local knowledge and boots on the ground because something can look great on the pc but unless you understand the local perceptions and how various areas are viewed as you know better than i belinda you know properties in one street can

look very different from properties in a street just a block away that's right that that level of intimacy and understanding and and really uh getting a grip of what the perception and sentiment is around various locations is as important as the is the quantitative stuff that you find on the desktop so beautifully said look i really want to thank you for the this very refreshing and timely update melinda it certainly reinforces a need for property investors and buyers who are looking to engage a buyer's agent to assist with their property purchases to ensure that whoever they're engaging, they make sure they're a member of REBA, which they can confirm at rebaa.com.au. That's reba.com.au. So thanks again for joining us on

Realty Talk today, Melinda. It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me. Successful property investment is a game of finance. Do you have the right team and the right game plan realty talk is brought to you by know how property more than mortgage brokers bushy martin and his team of investment architects set you up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs tax risk and stress while increasing your capacity for growth know how has helped over 1900 homeowners and investors secure more than 800 million dollars in property well. So get set to live more, work less and live your legacy. Want to know how to invest in your freedom? Visit knowhowproperty.com.au. At Realty Media Group, we've created and combined a suite

of products to service the property distribution and marketing sector in Australia. We streamline the process, saving agents and consumers time and money. RMG's AI-powered proprietary solutions are set to shake up the Aussie market. Investment expressions of interest through Swarmer are open now. Don't miss out. This is Realty Talk, powered by realty.com.au. Hello and welcome. And as we said in the introduction,

Louis Christopher every year brings out his boom and bust report, and it's one that we anxiously await. He joins Bushy and I now as we're going to have a look at that report. G'day Louie, how are you doing? G'day Kevin, g'day Bushy, nice to be with you both. Yeah, we always look forward to this time of the year, Louie. It's a great Christmas present, your boom and bust report, so we're really looking forward to diving into it today. No problem at all, glad we can help and hopefully we'll have the forecast right for 2024.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'll tell you what we'd love to do to kick things off, Louie, getting into it, is give us a bit of a background about the report in terms of how it's put together and what it actually covers for those that might not have come across it yet. No problem. So in the report itself, what we do is we take very much what we call a top-down approach to our forecasting. So we first look at the nation, what we think are going to be the big macroeconomic drivers of housing prices over the course of 2024, and what's also actually transpired over 2023 to see you know how the market has moved and what's been driving the markets

as mentioned it's a top-down approach so what we eventually do in the report is get down to the postcodes where we actually issue ratings on each individual postcode in the country plus provide data on what's happened on each individual postcode in the country hence the reason why the report ends up being about 135 pages the media of course yeah we we focus on the capital cities that's what the media love to cover and we put that out in a public media release but the data on those individual postcodes we just leave that for the report uh so readers have got something extra there that perhaps the general public do not have yeah so we're gonna we're gonna cover off on those uh those high points as well but i just i might mention louis that we're going to

put a link in the description below that'll take you straight to where you can get that report and as louis said you know over well over 100 pages in the report and going into great detail suburb by suburb so it's a it's a very good report well worth the 59.95 uh that you'll pay for it so louis um i'm always keen every time you and i talk about the boom and bust just to wind the clock back 12 months, because you do it every year, how did the results in real time stack up against your predictions from this time last year? Yeah, so this time last year, we forecasted there would be a housing market recovery. I think we're one of the very few to forecast that, certainly the banks didn't forecast

that. The reason why we forecasted a recovery this time last year was that we were expecting a very strong migration rate for 2023. All the leading indicators were suggesting that. We also at this time last year had a cash rate, which was running at the time in the low threes, well and truly below the inflation rate. And when you see that, that generally creates stimulus in the housing market. Over and above that, it was pretty clear to us that we would be under-building in 2023 and that the rental crisis would roll on. And then finally, as we went to print last year, we were just noticing some leading indicators such as auction clearance rates, listings that were suggesting that there was a little bit of strength coming to, in particular, the Sydney housing market. So I think the combination of all those gave us the conviction and confidence that the market would actually pick up in 2023, despite the rises in interest rates over 2022.

Yeah, and also said, so jumping into the future, then just to whet our appetites before we sort of dive into the nitty gritty, what's your overall view about how markets are going to perform in 2024? Well, our view is a little bit more negative compared to 2033, Bushy. We believe we will see a correction of sorts in the Sydney housing market as well as the Melbourne housing market plus the Hobart and Canberra housing markets where we're particularly bearish on. So when we consider what drove the market up this year, as mentioned, interest rates being lower than

the inflation rate that factor has narrowed up considerably and when we have the when we consider the outlook for inflation which we think inflation is going to fall in 2024 we're going to end up in what's called real positive interest rate territory and that's generally quite restrictive for the economy and the overall housing market that's where interest rates are generally quite higher compared to the inflation rate that combined with the fact that okay over the course of 2023 it was a relatively strong economy employment growth was still solid that's something that we did predict would occur but our prediction on employment for 2024 is weaker we believe the unemployment rate will rise and will certainly rise above four percent we're

already starting to see some leading indicators of that now for example job ads have been declining and generally slower employment growth and or higher unemployment is not conducive to a strong housing market over and above that migration everybody's been talking about migration and it's definitely been a factor and will continue to be a factor in 2024 however we do believe that at this point in time right now we're reaching the peak of migration growth and we think it will be a slightly slower year next year in terms of net overseas arrivals. And that's definitely a key contingency in our forecast.

We'll be wrong with our forecast next year if migration runs as strong as what had happened this year. But we're reasonably confident, no, that this year was a very abnormal year and we will see a bit of a slowdown in net overseas arrivals in 2024. That will impact upon the Sydney housing market and the Melbourne housing market in particular

if we're right about that and then finally okay at the beginning of the year we had interest rates lower than what we have now you may recall last year we talked about what would happen if the cash rate crossed over four percent and we called it our false dawn scenario where the market would recover but given cash rates get into that restrictive area that would create a lot of stress out there with existing property owners and would deter a lot of would-be home buyers well we're now got a cash rate of 4.35 percent that is at what i regard a very restrictive level it's causing stress out there in the community and i think what we're going to see over the course of 2024 as a result is a rise in distress selling activity and as mentioned before a step back from

would be home buyers but keep in mind in all this guys this is this is a mixed housing market we're forecasting for 2024 we're not anticipating housing price falls everywhere we think perth and brisbane are actually going to clearly up form despite the rise in interest rates so we can go into that in more detail if you like yeah i'd like to i wanted to ask you about drivers uh in a moment before i do i picked up on your comment about perth and brisbane um what what's driving that prediction of growth louis compared to sydney melbourne you know yes predominantly a better than expected uh commodities market outlook so we believe that the stimulus which has been presently injected into into the chinese economy is going

to work the amount of stimulus we're talking about here is the same that we had back in 2008 And back in that year, it really got the Chinese economy going. We think the same thing is going to happen. And that should mean ongoing strong demand for base commodities, in particular iron ore. And you will note that iron ore prices have actually been rising of late. They've been fairly lofty. And that's because the market, the iron ore market, is pricing in this stimulus in the Chinese economy. And so if we're right about this and commodity prices just hold at their current levels, that's going to stimulate the Perth and Brisbane economies.

And just keep in mind, as you might be aware, particularly Kevin and Bushy, the Brisbane economy does have exposure to the global commodities market. You've got a lot of big mining companies with their head offices in the Brisbane CBD. And it's played out historically when we've had strong commodity markets, the Brisbane housing market tends to do well. And when we've had weaker commodity markets, like we had in between, say, 2013 through to 2016,

the Brisbane housing market tends to be a little bit softer. And I think that's one of the main reasons why we've come out with our forecast. over and above that affordability is relatively better compared to sydney and melbourne and we also believe interstate migration is going to remain strong towards southeast queensland notwithstanding we're a little bit bearish on the gold coast market i've got to say that okay fair enough hey i can see what's going to happen um your prediction likely to be absolutely correct we're going to see the brisbane market pick up and i can hear it now oh it's all on the back of

the olympics is it really going to make much of a difference is that is that it's not all on the back of the olympics no that's what i mean yeah this this coming year it's going to be more on the back of as mentioned this um this good commodities income coming into the country which brisbane has exposure to as well as other townships in queensland that's what's going to drive the prices next year but i do believe as we get closer and closer to the olympics we see greater infrastructure spend which should uh maintain fairly solid employment growth brisbane is going to benefit from that just as sydney did uh in the lead up to the 2000 olympic games yeah living in brisbane now sorry wishy i keep cutting in here but living in brisbane as i

do you know look at the infrastructure that's happening hey mate can i just move on to the key drivers what do you think we should be watching out for that's going to influence the market direction next year yes well look there's there's two contingencies here we've spoken one about a migration the other scenario we've run is uh what's called our energy crisis scenario so this is a scenario where the events in the middle east really get out of control and it gets out of control to the point of what we had in the late 1970s where there's some type of attempted oil embargo that occurs in the Middle East as a result of the current tensions.

And in that scenario, you could expect oil prices in particular to skyrocket. This would be a scenario where there's an attempt to basically block oil coming out of the Middle East. Now, in that scenario, central banks around the world, certainly including our Reserve Bank, would be forced to aggressively lift interest rates because they'd be facing a new wave of higher inflation.

In that scenario, we would be very hard-pressed to avoid a recession. And with that type of aggressive interest rates, we're talking about interest rates going well north of 5% in terms of the cash rate, I think we would see a deeper correction in the Australian housing market. So that's one to watch for. We don't know exactly how the Middle East is going to play out, but it's clearly a risk and it's a risk we had to this year really take into account um we don't know if that's like i said we don't know if that's going to play out hopefully it doesn't it's not

our absolute base case but it's certainly a scenario where we had to run some numbers on yeah perfect well you've given us we've had a sneak peek at the four scenarios that you've put up thank you uh louis just to run through that can you sort of returning back to your base case can you give us a summary on what's likely to happen around the country as far as that base scenario is concerned then? Yeah no problem so our national forecast is for dwelling prices to change between minus one to plus three percent that kind of though hides what's going to happen in each capital city because overall it is a mixed market so the cities which we're more bearish on include Hobart where we're forecasting a minus seven to minus three percentage decline

Canberra minus eight to minus four percent Darwin minus three to plus one percent as mentioned before with Sydney we're forecasting a minus four to an unchanged result Melbourne a minus three to plus one and then as mentioned before Perth and Brisbane the cities were most bullish on Perth We're forecasting a plus 5% to plus 9% price increase and Brisbane plus 4% to plus 8%. So they are the forecasts. One of the factors we maybe have just touched on there is supply. So we're only forecasting an increase in dwellings

of about 153,000 dwellings for next year. That means the rental market is still going to be very, very tight. Now, some of these cities are actually affected by a little bit of surplus coming into the market in terms of dwelling. So, for example, Canberra, from what we can see in the approval numbers, the completion numbers, has had a little bit of an increase in supply, which has caused a rise in rental vacancy rates over the course of 2023. I think that combined with the elevated interest rates we currently have, plus our anticipation that the federal government's going to just try and hold spending back over this current financial year and try to keep their powder dried for the election year, I think that could affect the local economy of Canberra as well. now with Hobart that's another city where we're forecasting greater declines that city seems to be affected now by the rising interest rate environment we've been recording some pretty big rises in distress listings activity for the city of Hobart it's it's grown quite dramatically

since this time last year I think the local community there are definitely far more sensitive to interest rate rises they're sensitive to a slower economy as well and over and above that we talk about this strong migration numbers coming through well they haven't really been flowing through to Tasmania if you look at the actual interstate migration numbers the overall population numbers of Tasmania they've been recording slower population growth over the past 12 months back to kind of what we saw back in the early noughties where it's it was actually pretty minute in terms of the population increase so that's been concerning us as well over and above the fact that hey uh over the city of payback's had a massive run in house prices since

2015 um and it's really hard to find good value there at this point in time i was going to sorry bushy i was going to ask you in a moment about um the regions just before we do that can i just ask you a question about distressed property because i i know you take a really good look at that and you know we get your reports on the number of distressed properties and you mentioned hobart there uh what are the other uh flash points around the country where you think there's going to be an emergence of these distressed properties because it's always it's a great report you put out and it's always good to keep an eye on it what's the what's going to be the level yeah so i'll just bring up our distress listings account live now so you get an

understanding of what we're actually reporting at. Overall distress listings over the course of 2023 actually trended downwards, led by falls and distress listings in Queensland and Victoria as well. But we've noted an increase in recent weeks, and that increase has actually been driven by New South Wales and Tasmania, as discussed just just then um and so when we consider the state of new south wales at this point in time

we're recording 1293 properties selling under the stress uh conditions now in new south wales back in 2022 at the beginning of 2022 there was only about 725 properties selling under distress listings so it's been increasing since that year and in recent weeks it's really trended up it's actually gone up by about 10 just in the last few weeks now i'm not sure what's going on there other than to say i think the present interest rates settings are starting to bite the community interesting now you've given us a really good run through what's happening in the capital cities louis and i know there's a lot of detail in the report uh that goes much wider than that can you sort of sort of wet our appetite a little bit in terms of what you're seeing likely

to happen in the regions given that regions have been the talk of the town over the last couple of years yeah well look i think it's a mixed outlook on the regions uh we're concerned for rural townships as we go further into the El Nino event. As you might be aware, a number of townships housing prices and rural prices really skyrocketed over 2021 and 2022. Coincidentally, and it's not coincidentally, those areas had good rainfall from the La Nina event. Our concern is that

if we see a big drought and we think the probabilities are high that we'll see increasing drought over the course of 2024 that's going to affect the prices of real estate both housing and rural acreage real estate in a number of our rural regions over next year and i i do caution investors for these areas because i think they'll be buying at the top of the market they are areas where historically you've seen a lot of volatility in prices and you just got to careful about borrowing money and buying at the top of some of these areas that um that's the case for rural areas now townships where especially in western australia's northwest like karatha we're expecting a boom period um given the the very high elevated iron ore prices and our forecasts

that iron ore prices are going to stay elevated over the course of 2024. so areas uh townships which have got exposure to base commodities we're expecting prices to rise so hence the reason why we're taking a mixed outlook uh in regional areas i hasten to add i've got to say look any small township with a narrow economic base i really think these areas are not for novice investors they're only for professional investors already have a pretty deep portfolio and can afford to lose money hey louis we're going to leave it there mate but thank you so much really appreciate your time and all the effort that goes into this report just a reminder you can pick up um christopher's housing boom and bust report from sqm research it's available on the link below uh and uh the

price is 59.95 well worth every every cent and by the way too if you'd like to make a comment on that um you can do that by jumping into the property hub collective facebook community page just go and search in facebook property hub collective uh bushy i'm sure you want to join me in thanking louis for you know another great report and another from absolutely i always look forward to this time of the year louis and uh thanks for your continued efforts in this regard it's uh if we're looking for reliability transparency and balance in terms of what's happening you know we always turn to sqm so thanks for giving us the heads up on the insights for next year. Thanks for your time, guys. And I hope your audience gets something out of that. It's

going to certainly be a very interesting year. Mate, they'll really get a lot more out of it if they go and buy it. So go and buy that report. Good on you, Louis. Nice talking to you, mate. Thank you. Hi, just before we go back to the show, I want to spend a few seconds and tell you about a book that was sent to me that's now become my go-to reference when I'm looking for inspiration about property investment you know sometimes it's not about knowing all the answers it's certainly more important to know what questions to ask this book by rasti is called the property wealth blueprint and it's one that you don't read just once and then put it away it stays out as a reference it's a book that you go back to time and time again as i do because it's packed with

personal experience and with great examples of how to get property investment right it's very frank it's to the point and as you can see here I've needed to bookmark several points and I can tell you that it's a constant companion on my desk here the remarkable thing is that it's absolutely free on Rasty's website getrare.com.au getrare it's a gateway to a richer life the website there for you again, getrare.com.au. So get this book, get it for yourself. Subscribe now to Realty Talk. It's out every week. And that brings us to the end of this week's show. A big thanks to Melinda and

Louis for a great show. Make sure you don't miss a single episode of Realty Talk or Bushy's Get Invested podcast delivered to you each week by subscribing at the Property Hub now on your favourite podcast player or wherever you're listening to or watching the show. Also join the conversation anytime on Facebook at the Property Hub Collective and join us for that Q&A on the 4th of December. Thanks to our supporters and content partners, realty.com.au, BMT Tax Depreciation, Know How Property Finance, Get Rare Property and Apiro Marketing. I'm Kevin Turner and on behalf of Bushy and the Property Hub team, we look forward to seeing you again next week.