Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk: FIFO Agents + Blockchain Bridge + Where to invest $1M

Episode Date: February 11, 2023

This week’s show dives into buyers agent selection, blockchain property transformation, and where best to invest a million dollars.  Well-known property personality Veronica Morgan kicks things off by questioning the pros and cons of FIFO (Fly in & Fly Out) Buyers Agent’s versus local area experts. We then go international & digital with Jurgen Poelzl to explore how you can bridge incremental property investment with the security of blockchain to give you international access to sustainable green property projects. And to close out the show, Scott O’Neill explores your options on where you are best to invest a Million dollars right now.  RealtyTalk is part of the Property Hub podcast channel, your home for property investment insights, inspiration, and stories from Australia’s top property experts, investors, leaders, and analysts. Subscribe now to get every RealtyTalk episode delivered to you each week for free, and also get full access to Get Invested, the leading podcast for Australians who want to unlock their full ‘self, health, and wealth’ potential and get inspired by the stories of investors, founders, and entrepreneurs. Subscribe to RealtyTalk on the Property Hub channel: Apple Podcasts | Spotify | Google Podcasts | Email Property Hub is a collaboration between Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property, Kevin Turner from Realty, Andrew Montesi from Apiro Marketing and Apiro Media, and Australia’s largest independent podcast network DM Media. Business and partnership enquiries: [e-mail] omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to Realty Talk, the show that brings together the country's most authoritative and respected property experts. Follow us on all the socials and subscribe for updates and exclusive offers. Realty Talk is powered by realty.com.au, connecting buyers, sellers and agents differently. Hi and welcome to Your Property Hub's Realty Talk Show, your go-to home for property investment insights, inspirational stories from Australia's top property experts, leaders and analysts. I'm your anchor Bushy Martin from Know How Property Finance and we've got another bumper program for you this week. Well-known TV and property personality Veronica Morgan kicks things off by questioning the pros and cons of using FIFO, that's fly in and fly out, versus local

area expert buyers agents. We then go international and digital with Juergen Polzel from Qlindo. to explore how you can bridge incremental property investment with the security of blockchain to give you international access to sustainable green property projects. And to close out the show, Scott O'Neill from Rethink Investing explores your options on where you're best to invest a million dollars right now. Now, before we get into it, make sure you don't miss another episode of Realty Talk by subscribing to the Property Hub on your favorite podcast player, where you'll get two powerful episodes of both Realty Talk as well as the Get Invested podcast delivered to you each and every week. And make sure you also sign up on

the realty.com.au homepage, where you'll also get a free copy of my award-winning book, Get Invested, just for making the effort. We've got stacks of property insights to share. So let's get on with the show. now if you've been watching realty talk for a while you've heard me talk about the fact that buyers agents generally appear on a spectrum somewhere between local buying experts who intimately know the ins and outs of their local area at one end through to national buyers agents who tend to rely on remote desktop research at the other so to better understand what type of buyer's agents is better suited to you and your circumstances, we're joined by a well-known TV

presenter and highly respected buyer's agent, Veronica Morgan, who's also a residential property expert, a podcast host, and author, who's renowned for her property insights without the BS. So welcome back to the show, Veronica. Oh, thanks, Bushy. Now, I love this subject. So I'm really looking forward to unpacking this. So can you sort of, I know that you've come up with a really great classification of the two main types of buyers agents in Australia. So can you start by explaining and breaking them down for us? Yeah, sure. I'm going to give you three different categories where there's two in each, right? So the first one is there's buyers agents that focus very much on owner occupiers and those that focus

very much on investors. Now the owner occupier, this is sort of where we're going with the local call specialists versus FIFO or fly in, fly out buyers agents, right? So the local specialist and the owner occupier, there's a beautiful synergy there, right? The investor and the FIFOs, unfortunately, there's a beautiful synergy there. And there's a bit of a problem. And I'll sort of come to, I guess, why that's a problem. But the FIFO real estate, sorry, buyers agent doesn't have that local expertise but there's another category and that's an order taker versus an advisor right so a lot of people a lot of buyers agents will go yeah you want one of them sure i'll go and get one of them without any real depth of analysis or advice to say is that a good decision

for you is that the sort of property that you should be looking for that fits with what you've told me your long-term goals are is that even a good asset you know versus somebody that will say you know what, I'm going to challenge you. And let's talk about really what the type of property that's going to serve you long term, or how's this for a radical, maybe you shouldn't invest in property, or maybe not now, you know, and there's not many buyers agents if it is that category. Absolutely. It's more about the paycheck for them than the result for the investor or the buyer, which is interesting. So just to sort of qualify, then are you suggesting that investors are best with FIFO buyers agents and owner occupiers with a local specialist?

Well, what I am saying, definitely the owner occupier and the local specialist has said absolute clear synergy without a shadow of a doubt, right? And the FIFO buyers agent though, there is a challenge. And this is what I was alluding to before, that when an investor who is quite agnostic about where they would invest goes and talks to a local specialist, they're going to fall into the the problem if the local specialist it's like the the tradie with the hammer every problem looks like a nail right and so they are going to get sort of sold into that local area and you get why that's their business that's what they know they have faith in that they're probably a bit biased you know the whole home bias thing and from an investor's point of

view they do need to have more holistic advice in terms of where they should be buying before they get to that point. And there's a gap in the market here. It's a challenge for investors to come to those conclusions about the right locations before talking to the buyer's agent. But then the problem is they go to the FIFO buyer's agent who values data over art. And you need science and art when you're buying property. You really do need to have a lovely alchemy at both of those things. these FIFO buyers agents often are very transactionally focused very numbers based and it sounds really logical it's an investment I should only use numbers but the problem is to do that you run a very big risk of being sold into an area that potentially they've just decided is

easy for them to buy in yeah and that's not a good thing for you as a buyer buying something easy is never a good thing for a property buyer yeah um and you know and then you've got you know they might have this national network of on the ground buyers agents and that might work because those local net those local on the ground buyers agents might have that local expertise but you really do run the risk of buying a very poor asset with these investment houses if they don't understand the art part of the property buying process. So it's a difficult conundrum for the investor, as I said, who is agnostic or doesn't really care. That's another problem as well, because that sort of person is likely to default their own personal education decision-making

to these FIFO buyers agents, and that's extraordinarily dangerous. Very dangerous indeed. So why do you think local specialists buy better property than FIFO buyers agents in the context of what you've just said? Yeah, so I guess if you took a location and said, right, well, the FIFO could buy there and so could the local specialists, so sort of the location is equal but the buyers agents are different. The amount of stories that I hear from local buyers agents

and also local sales agents about the type of stock these out-of-town buyers agents buy. Now I've seen this myself with my own eyes. So it's not just sour grapes from the local buyers agents going, I don't want these people stomping in my territory. And when I get, you know, I've had regional sales agents tell me horrific stories about how they've managed to luck it into some buyers agent that has done the data and thinks that that area is the next hot spot. And so they start selling all their clients into that area and buying stock. They start pushing prices up and some of these agents have been telling me stories about how they've offloaded all their crap stock that they haven't been able to sell to locals you know for sometimes years

and they've been selling them to these buyers agents clients the buyers agents clients are bragging about well sorry the clients aren't bragging they don't know yet they don't know and they will not know for another five ten years probably what has happened but the buyers agent then starts great. This is easy pickings, right? And they're selling this dream to people who don't have the smarts, don't have the knowledge, or maybe not even the interest to check on the validity of these claims. And then each time they buy, they push the price up a little bit. And then they go back to their original clients and go, look, prices are rising in this area. You've done so well. And they start bragging about the instant equity uplift. Oh, it's fabulous. They create this

self-fulfilling wonderful little market which is really awful because and then they start spinning spinning their stories and then they actually pitch it as oh my clients have been but buying below market in a growing in a grow I mean it's just horrific horrific when you hear these stories so the local specialists in these areas are like I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole and these are the reasons and some of these FIFO buyers agents they actually don't even go there they don't actually fly in or fly out they do it from their desk yeah and they get local property managers to do the inspections for them they do not see a lot of things that they really needed to be evaluating and checking they the clients have often seen the property before the buyers

agents even seen it right they're then picking up hang on how come you couldn't see there's a hole on the wall there or whatever um you know the property managers are not experienced buyers agents they're not experienced being critical thinkers around not you know sure they might be able to advise on how easy it's going to be to rent out now but what about longevity what about um long-term capital growth prospects all those sorts of things and also they've got an agenda they want they either don't want to lose the listing that's on their books now or they want to get a new one so there's just so many pitfalls and so when you hear the stories from those local experts and say i wouldn't touch that because of xyz bad tenants bad street bad side of town

you know uh flood zone all these really avoidable and knowable and discoverable things that have not been investigated have not been tested because they're basically their clients are in a sausage machine and they're just pumping them out yeah that's abominable totally agree so how can buyers and investors avoid these traps then veronica well the thing is that um they need to be very start learning um you need to start educating yourself and at the end of the day investing in property is a expensive yeah b it's lumpy yeah c it's a long-term commitment and to outsource the responsibility for that decision-making to a buyer's agent is a, it's a massive trust relationship, but to do that without actually learning enough yourself so that you can test

whether that buyer's agent is worthy of your trust. That's what your responsibility is as a consumer. So one of the things I would say, always ask these buyers agents, what's the minimum budget for an a-grade property um so and then say what is an a-grade property show me examples yeah now then that's interesting in itself sometimes you see some stuff you think oh i do not want to be buying that crap right yeah ask them what their methodology is for identifying investment grade property they must have a methodology if they're just like oh what if it's airy fairy and fluffy run right yeah if they use a lot of data about shopping centers airports you know what else you know all that sort of typical infrastructure data about growth corridors and all that sort of

palaver if they start bamboozling you with statistics i'd be like run because you can misuse and in this industry statistics are misused all the time yeah then what i want to know is how do they measure the performance of the properties that they've bought for their clients now if they've been in the industry for a minute, they're going to start talking about instant equity lifts and high yield, right? Warning, warning, right? If they've been around for a long time, they're going to go, right, well, this is a client bought five years ago. It's another one I bought 10 years ago. This is their position now, da, da, da, da, because of what we did and because of the things in our methodology that we were looking for that we found, and this is how we're measuring it.

And so you really need to ask for those case studies, not yesterday's, not six months ago, because I see it all the time, all these instant equity uplifts and yee-haw, but property is a long game. And, you know, you have to remember that. You're the one stuck with this. These people, half of them, they'll be out selling crypto in five years' time.

They won't be, or whatever the next thing is, right? They probably won't be in property. Yeah, extremely well said. You need to manage your managers and you need to know enough about what you're doing to be able to do that. That's the absolute clear takeaway. and also making sure that there is independence

and checks and balances in the equation so that you're not relying on one track that's in the back pocket of someone else because you're not really getting the truth. You're getting what you want to hear rather than what you need to hear. So look, as always, I really want to thank you for sharing these great insights, Veronica.

And thanks again for your time on the show today. My pleasure, Bushy. Thanks, Veronica. Well, it's clear, like everything, the devil's in the detail when it comes to engaging a buyer's agent. that's going to get you the best results. So if you'd like to find out more, reach out to Veronica and her team at veronicamorgan.com.au.

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blockchain technology and digital coins and tokens are having on just about every industry where there's an exchange of value. That is, with the exception of the real estate industry, it's been very slow to adopt this new revolutionary way of doing business. And one of the biggest challenges for most people investing in property is the massive deposits and the high debt required to make this a reality. Sure, you can invest through fractal investments where you get into the property market in small increments by buying a portion or a fraction of a property, or you can buy units in limited property trusts.

But these all have challenges. So what if there's a better way that bridges incremental property investment with the transparency and security of blockchain-based real estate tokens to give you international access to sustainable green property projects? To reveal this exciting opportunity,

we're joined by Jürgen Purzel from Qlindo, in Austria. So welcome to Realty Talk, Jürgen. Thank you so much, Martin, for having me. It's a great pleasure being on your show today. Thank you, Jürgen. So let's sort of get into it. And to start with, how are blockchain-based real estate tokens changing the world of property investment? Well, Martin, this is the question that probably every investor is asking himself nowadays as the blockchain technology is omnipresent. We as Colindo believe that real estate investments need to be simpler and quicker. And the blockchain technology helps us on this task. With Colindo, we created the first green real estate and energy token.

What does that mean? We offer our token holder to invest in an individual real estate and energy portfolio that is represented by the Colindo token. As such, with the Colindo token, And you're not investing in one individual real estate or energy project, but rather in the whole portfolio, holding the rights for our individual project. It could therefore be seen as a traditional ETF, but only with all the advantages that the blockchain technology, that the Web3 space has to offer. Yeah, brilliant. That's a good way of describing it. So just to draw the distinction a little bit further, how does it differ from the traditional property investment route? I would say, unlike the traditional property transaction, the Colindo token can provide its investors with a unique value-enhanced strategy in, I would say, three areas. First of all, the treasury earns money from property management, which is reflected in the token's value.

All profits are deposited in the Colindo treasury and are transparently managed by a DAO. Quick explanation about the DAO. It's a decentralized autonomous organization. With this unique strategy, we are inviting our token holders to be part of the decision-making process. We work very hard on making it as simple as possible. Therefore, we created a mobile application where on a regular basis, we're going to ask our token holders where to invest next. So as soon as we have good project and pipeline, we're going to order them. And as a management team, we propose the different project to our community.

And the community then really takes over the decision-making process of the Colindo DAO and decides whether they want to invest in project A, B, or C. I would say the second thing is we are guaranteeing inflation-proof fixed rate staking, as called in the blockchain world, as the cap of the Colindo token is 10 billion issued token. And therefore, we could always use those tokens in order to provide our token holders a fixed staking rate. And I would say the third big advantage or also difference between traditional property transaction is the token in automated market making will only be issued more if the coin's value is also increasing. adjustments are also made every three months if the value in the treasury as a result of revenue changes significantly in comparison to the token price yeah okay that's very interesting then so i'd like to dive into the benefits of this new form of real real estate investment then if you and Raw Wires Air Force?

Well, the goal is to bring an outstanding portfolio of green real estate projects and energy projects from all around the world under the umbrella of Colindo, allowing investors to access a larger portion of the green real estate market. In doing so, Colindo is adopting a particular novel strategy in that the properties do not require a complicated tokenization process, but rather the underlying value of the green properties are reflected in one token

transparently managed by a DAO that I just mentioned. I also believe that with this approach, we invite our investors to stay purely digital, although investing in real-life assets, underlying assets. Our token holders, they stay fully flexible by the opportunity to trade the Colinda token seven days a week, 24 hours. And at the end of the day, this is a new approach as we also offer the possibility

to stay fully in control of your money. We don't have a minimum requirement to invest in. Therefore, you can invest whether $5, $20, a million at the end of the day. Obviously, it does matter. But we truly invite the token holder to just try it out, see how it goes. And then if you're comfortable with the product, happy to invite everyone to invest more or whatever he or she is feeling comfortable with. Yeah, awesome.

I was going to ask you whether it was a minimum investment, but if there is no limits on that, then that certainly gives people an opportunity to test the waters, see how it progresses, and then leverage up if that's appropriate. So I'd love you to sort of talk to us about any inherent risks that might be involved so that investors get their head around that side as well. Well, I would say, obviously, no investment comes without a risk.

I would say there are internal and external risk from an internal point of view. I would say we are only as good as the project we invested in. We're therefore working with our real estate and energy partners with a lot of experience. For instance, in Europe, we are working with one real estate developer with over 35 plus years experience in the field. And therefore, we are also looking out for experience that we can buy in for our Colindo portfolio. From an external point of view, it is important to stay always on the latest security technology to prevent hacker attacks. and at the end of the day, it's good to work with good lawyers as also the regulatory issues would need to be taken very serious

and therefore get some good lawyers on your side. Yeah, no, that's very well said. And I guess the diversification of the portfolio, given you're not effectively investing in one asset but a multitude of assets, which potentially are going to be in different markets and in different configurations to diversify and dilute that risk in any event.

Now, that's awesome. So what types of projects can we invest in using this blockchain real estate tokens then, Juergen? Look, in the end of the day, every single real estate could be tokenized. This is, from a technical point of view, quite simple to do. It's just based on the decision of the owner if he or she wants to tokenize the real estate.

With Colindo, we have just recently closed our investment into Techwood Home, an Austrian-based real estate company offering prefabricated houses with integrated smart home solutions. It is based on a plastic-free construction and offers a self-sustaining housing concept. Furthermore, we are also looking out on investments abroad. Therefore, we have invested in a company called Flow Game Development and Management. It's based in Switzerland.

It's specialized in the production and distribution of mobile carbon wind turbines. This enables the use of wind turbines in various places. Just think about large supermarket or company parking lots where the mobile carbon wind turbines can be placed and you can easily charge your electronic cars, motorcycles within some minutes. Furthermore, we are very focusing on investment in photovoltaic plants, especially in Eastern Europe. Yeah, interesting. A good diversity. And again, that green sustainability factor is coming in. We hope so. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds awesome as a future investment in the betterment of the world. Let's turn to Qlindo now. Specifically, what are the advantages of and what does Qlindo offer?

Well, I would say next to an easy investment in a real estate and energy project portfolio with a constant increase of value, we are offering further utility to our investors, such as commission-free rent or the possibility to buy prime properties from the Colindo portfolio. We offer discounts for buying property from Colindo, access to Colindo's green technology network, green interior design, and much more. Our different utilities are very often changing or constantly changing. But we're going to inform our token holders on the current utilities that are also offered by holding the Colindo token. yeah very interesting so there really are some uh additional benefits other than just the pure investment place so and that's and that's why why i especially said uh we offer all the possibilities for investors that they also gain from traditional um traditional property investments but with the further advantages of the blockchain technology of

the Web3 space as we truly can combine the old world with the new world and more or less pick out the best things on both sides. Yeah, I like that because potentially you've got the growth of the physical real estate investments themselves, but also potentially the growth of the tokens. So there's two opportunities there. Yeah, I like that.

Excuse me. So how can potential investors get involved then, Jürgen? That's quite easy as the Web3 doesn't have any borders anymore, therefore it doesn't matter whether you're located in Australia, in Asia, Europe, America, or somewhere else on our beautiful globe. As we are listed on Uniswap or BitMart, you can easily invest in Colindo on those two exchanges. BitMart is one of the biggest and most trusted crypto exchange. As such, you would only need to register on BitMart and buy Colindo token directly on the BitMart exchange. And the second possibility is called Uniswap. It's a decentralized exchange where you basically only need to connect your crypto wallet, such as Metamask or Trust wallet, also a lot of other wallets, and change cryptocurrency into your Colindo token.

Yeah, it's a very easy process. Well, look, I really want to thank you for opening your eyes to this changing world of blockchain-based property opportunities, Juergen, and thanks for getting up early in Austria to join us on the show today. Thank you so much for having me. It was a great pleasure. Thank you. Thank you, Juergen.

Well, it's one thing that's absolutely constant in property, it's continual change, and blockchain-based real estate tokens are now disrupting the world of property. So if you'd like to know more, check out Qlindo.io. That's Q-L-I-N-D-O dot I-O. Keep watching the Property Hub's Realty Talk, your go-to place for all things property. up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs, tax, risk and stress while increasing your capacity for growth. KnowHow has helped over 1,900 homeowners and investors secure more than $800 million in property wealth. So get set to live more, work less and live your

legacy. Want to know how to invest in your freedom? Visit knowhowproperty.com.au. Now, there's been so much conjecture, scaremongering, and misleading noise about property in recent months, that it's easy to be very confused about what, if anything, you should be investing your hard-earned money in. So, let's ask the question, where would you invest your money if you had a million dollars right now? Well, to give you a well-educated and qualified answer to this, we're joined again by RealtyTalk regular, Scott O'Neill, the founder of Rethink Investing, a leading commercial buyers agency specializing in finding rare, positively geared commercial properties right across Australia. So welcome back to the show again, Scott.

Good to be back, Bushy. Thank you. Thank you, Scott. Well, Scott, let's get straight into the meat of the argument. Where would you invest your money if you had a spare million dollars in your back pocket right now? Yeah, good question, Bushy. And interestingly, it's sort of roughly about our average price point so most people like obviously there's a lot of higher value assets and a lot of cheaper value ones and um but generally a commercial property investor is investing more money so a million dollars might sound a lot but uh it's not if you've owned a house in sydney for 10 years and refinanced it and saved a bit on the side it's actually a lot more in reach uh than you think so

this is a good goal for many investors i think to to sort of look forward to because it's it's enough to kind of leverage up into a two and a half three million dollar type asset and uh there's there's some good buying out there if you can get into that range you're going to be sort of competing against less investors the yields are better you're dealing with more mature type tenants or multiple tenants as well so it's a good goal to reach for and um to answer your question there's no right perfect answer like it really depends on the asset and i'll answer this the same way i do with my clients it's you let the deal do the talking so you go out with your price point make sure your finances are in order so you can go to your your broker make sure they're

you know they're sort of aware you're going down the commercial route because this is where i do think it is is best to spend this type of money because it will give you the cash flow um that that'll actually allow you to uh push forward to a retirement phase so whether it's industrial um small neighborhood shopping center type stuff little medical centers they're all in the range of this price point so i'll start with with industrial because this is a good safe bet there's a lot of capital growth on play and vacancy rates are minimal they're easy to fill so if you're going to spend your hard-earned million dollars on one asset industrial is a good spot to look for it doesn't need to be in a capital city but it needs to be

sort of major regional center and in a good part of town and you can buy that good established tenant so again you just go looking look make sure you look at multiple deals in this price point so you get a feel of what's out there but yeah it's all about making sure you've got your head around does this property release if it went vacant what's the capital growth on it on hold with this type of property and obviously doing the research on the current tenant make sure the numbers stack up so if you're refinancing run your numbers off 100% debt plus costs if you're looking at basically, you know, if you've got that as cash, your returns are going to be even better.

But, yeah, it's really about just modelling the numbers out. And you're going to see, you know, 6%, 7% returns for a good quality asset in this range. So, you know, if you look at the long-term interest rates, you know, that's a good margin day one. And, you know, for instance, if the rates drop, the numbers get better. If they increase, your numbers get worse. So you've just got to make sure you sort of do the modelling

around these interest rate cycles. um yeah so that's one part another part would be multi-tenant retail so this is a very popular asset class like three out of the last four purchases i've personally made have been shopping centers and i love them for the diversity they are core parts of our community your little supermarket you might have a dentist a hairdresser pharmacy like these these businesses are not going to just vanish off the face of the earth no matter what people say and it's uh there's just so many different types of these businesses in place too from laundry mats to you know fast food chains like they're all in these little complexes and sometimes it's all like an all-in-one portfolio

in one purchase and that makes people feel comfortable um another recent example we did for a client we bought a medical center had a 10 10 year lease established operator had a pharmacy next to it that was all in the high two millions so that's possible with that one mil deposit and And, again, it's something you'd allow your grandma to purchase because you know it's just going to be safe. You know, it's recession-proof. You don't need to be an expert in commercial property to understand it because we've all been to medical centres and stuff like that.

You've just got to do your normal due diligence, and experts can help do that. You've got lawyers looking over leases. Make sure you do all your usual stuff for residential. Get the building and pest reports. Look at comparable sales. And, yeah, you can really get that sort of trophy-type investment that will sort yourself out in this price point.

Yeah, I like it. Well, you've probably answered this question already in what we've been talking about, but would you pay cash or leverage the million dollars? Look, definitely leverage. And the reason for leveraging is you're just going to get out of that murky $1 million price point, which is nothing wrong with it, but there's just, as I said, there's just hundreds of these buyers

out there and it's um you're going to lose on yield because of the competition you've got to out purchase them as a cash buyer you've got an advantage because you can sort of skip the finance clause in contracts and whatnot but it's not really going to benefit you to compared to sort of leveraging so if you're buying a you know a three million dollar asset and it's a seven percent yield that's 210 000 income you're going to get if you're buying a seven percent yield on a million dollar property it's 70 grand so you can just do the maths on your interest cost you know cost you're going to make a lot more money from leveraging and not only that you rather have a three million dollar asset in a mark 10 years growing at five percent per annum than a one

million dollar asset 10 years like so the returns are magnified due to the leveraging benefit and that's the only reason anyone will ever touch residential because of that leveraging factor so same goes with commercial it's it's the key to doing well yeah spot on well you've answered this question already as well actually but uh is there any benefit in splitting the million dollars into two smaller deals yeah look the only reason you do it is if you got very lucky and found that kind of one and a you know one and a hundred thousand type deal in that million dollar range but it's an unlikely scenario because it takes a long time to purchase two good assets and a million dollars so by then the market's kind of that might take you 18 months

to complete two transactions and do it well so time out of the market that means lost cash flow but look again like you always let the deal do the talking like if you find a really good sub million dollar deal you'd never say no to it just because of the price point but you just got to work out the opportunity costs and can you use that surplus funds you've got on another deal and that sometimes can be the trickier bit to replicate that first good deal and I think commercial is only going to get more competitive over the next long we'll call it medium term because more people are going to transition from residential to commercial and I saw an interesting stat out the other day that there's and you may have the right numbers Bushy but there's about

600,000 transactions a year in resi it's about 20,000 in commercial so not much happens in commercial it's a small little uh you know baby type market compared to the resi space and you know to to regularly buy in this market it's very difficult because of these numbers spot on uh and a good reference there uh and you've touched on this already but just to drill into a little bit more is it easy to find good quality deals under these price points given the amount of competition that you're talking about as a general rule the cheaper you go the more difficult it gets because there's exponentially more buyers. So I always like to tell my clients, if you can participate in the quiet zone of the market, you will do better dollar for dollar. The quiet zone generally

starts at about two mil. So two to 10 million. Above 10 million, you start getting more syndicators and super funds and that sort of start to compete against you. Mind you, they're a bit quieter than they once were. So it's not so much a disadvantage if you go over that range, but definitely sub I mean, the amount of competition you face from inexperienced buyers who aren't as diligent or fussy on yields will just grow and grow and grow. So, yeah, it's a world where the more you spend, almost the less risk comes out of it in a way. So you've got to weigh that up.

Yeah, some really good thoughts there, mate. And as always, I really want to thank you for these educated insights on this quite important topic, mate. And thanks again for joining us on the show today. Thanks, Bushy. Appreciate it, mate. Thanks, Scott. Well, as you can see in here, there's still plenty of opportunity in the property investment arena if you know how and where to look. So if this is of interest and

you want to learn more, reach out to Scott and the Rethink Investing team at rethinkinvesting.com.au to investigate your options. Stay with us for more on your property hub's go-to place for all things property here on Realty Talk. Property depreciation is the natural wear and tear of a building and its assets. Property investors can claim depreciation as a tax deduction each financial year. Depreciation is a non-cash deduction. This means you don't need to spend any money in order to claim it. On average, BMT tax depreciation find residential investors almost $9,000 in first full financial year deductions. Call BMT on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation-free quote.

Well, that brings us to the close of this week's show. Another big thanks to our special guests, Veronica Morgan, Jürgen Pozl and Scott O'Neill. And before we go, make sure you don't miss another episode of your trusted voice for all things property by subscribing to the Property Hub on your favourite podcast player now,

where you'll also enjoy the Get Invested podcast delivered to you each and every week. Thanks again to realty.com.au BMT Tax Depreciation Apiro Marketing DM Media and Southern Cross Austereo

for their ongoing support I'm Bushy Martin from Know How Property Finance and along with Kevin Turner and the entire Property Hub Realty Talk team we thank you

for getting invested in yourself by investing in us and I look forward to seeing you again next week Miss something in this week's show

or want to catch up on past shows? Do it anytime at realty.com.au where we connect buyers, sellers and agents differently.