Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk: Gender Wealth Gap Tightens + Downsizer Preferences + Pod vs Portfolio

Episode Date: April 23, 2022

As property values have risen between 20-30% across the country over the last 12 months, what impact has this had on the wealth gap between genders? Core Logic’s Head of Research Eliza Owen joins us to discuss this based on her recently released 2022 Women & Property Report. Recent data reveals that 1.62 million Australian households are looking to downsize their homes over the next 5 years, but what type of properties are they looking for and how do they navigate the financial roadblocks to make this transition? Mark Macduffie from Downsizer.com joins us to talk about solutions to this growing challenge. How a property management office is structured has a big impact on your landlord or tenant experience so our host Bushy Martin concludes the show by continuing our special series on property management by revealing the differences between pods and portfolios.  RealtyTalk is your trusted voice in property investment and Australia’s most popular online property show.  RealtyTalk is brought to you by Realty, Australia’s leading search and social property distribution platform that helps investors like you beat the crowd, giving you the earliest access to property opportunities, listings, and insights. Check out Realty. RealtyTalk is hosted by top property investment expert, author, and founder of KnowHow Property, Bushy Martin. Find out how Bushy’s KnowHow team helps investors unlock freedom with finance and property here, and check out Bushy’s podcast Get Invested.  RealtyTalk is supported by BMT, a company that helps property investors save thousands of dollars each year by maximizing tax deductions from investment properties. Find out more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to Realty Talk, the show that brings together the country's most authoritative and respected property experts. Follow us on all the socials and subscribe for updates and exclusive offers. Realty Talk is powered by realty.com.au, connecting buyers, sellers and agents differently. Hi and welcome to this week's Realty Talk show. I'm Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property Finance and we've got more great guests and some awesome property learnings for you in this week's show. As property values have risen between 20 to 30 percent across the country over the last 12 months, what impact has this had on the wealth gap between genders? CoreLogic's head

of research Eliza Rowan joins us to discuss this based on her recently released 2022 Women and Property Report. Recent data also reveals that 1.62 million Australian households are looking to downsize their homes over the next five years. But what type of properties are they looking for and how do they navigate the considerable financial roadblocks to make this transition? Mark McDuffie from downsizer.com joins us again to talk about solutions to this growing challenge. And finally, how a property management office is structured has a big impact on your landlord or tenant experience. So I conclude the show by continuing our special series on property management by revealing the differences between pod and portfolio management and how this affects

you. And before we get into it, make sure you don't miss another episode of Realty Talk by signing up on the realty.com.au homepage so that you make sure you get every show in your inbox every week. And I'll even throw in a free copy of my award-winning book, Get Invested, for making the effort. We've got lots to unpack, so let's get on with the show. Greetings and welcome. Now, in the 12 months of January this year, CoreLogic has estimated that the total value of Australia's residential market has surged from just over $7 trillion right up to a massive $9.7 trillion, with dwelling values rising 22.4% during that period, which has added about $130,000 to the median value level over this period. Now, that's truly incredible growth. So given the recent focus and celebration of International Women's Day, what impact

of any has this had on the wealth gap between genders? To discuss this, we're joined again by show favourite Eliza Rowan, the head of research with CoreLogic, who has recently authored the very revealing 2022 Women and Property Report. So welcome back to the show, Eliza. Great to be here. Thanks, Bushy. Great.

A great report that you've written, so I'm really keen to sort of dig into the details there. But to sort of set the context, can you start by sharing what exactly has been happening over the last 12 months in relation to property values and income growth on a gender basis? So over the past, really, really since September 2020, right, we started to see the upswing in property values that was off the back of this record low interest rate setting. so that has led to some extraordinary growth with annual growth rates peaking at 22 and a half percent to January 2022 and significant gains as you highlighted at the medium value level of around

$130,000 or more depending on which capital city or area of Australia you're sitting in um and in terms of property purchases that we've observed over the past 12 months there was actually some pretty good parity between purchases that we estimate to be made by men and purchases made by women so around 28 percent of purchases by men and and um a little less, but still around that 28% made by women. And the rest were made by what we infer to be joint ownership between men and women, which is a really good sign. I think reflective of some of the government policies we've seen come into play, which are all about low deposit home loans and getting people over the deposit hurdle, which is important when you

consider how much more of a barrier the deposit hurdle can be for women who tend to earn less money and therefore can accumulate fewer savings. So some really good news there. Unfortunately, the legacy of the property market means that there is probably still a pretty big gender wealth gap when it comes to property, but it does seem to be improving over time. Yeah, it's a lot closer than I expected it to be, actually. So tell me, what impacts, if any, has the recent surge in property prices had on the wealth gap between property owners and others, as well as any gender variances then? yeah so basically periods of high growth in the property market they they generally exacerbate wealth inequality between the haves and have nots when it comes to real estate and that's largely because people who own property are the ones making the equity gains so if they want to upsize

it's easier for them to do so if they want to relocate if they want to buy additional properties It's easier for them to leverage the gains they've seen in property. And that's what keeps up with the property market. So it makes a lot of sense. Whereas if you're not in the property market, you're trying to accumulate those savings, it's virtually, you know, it's very, very difficult. I mean, if we've seen increases of 22% in property values in the same period that we see increases of 2% in wages growth, it makes sense that it's harder to keep up if you don't

actually own property. Yeah, it's a bit of a runaway train, unfortunately. No question on that score. So have you observed any differences in the type of property ownership between men and women then, Eliza? Yeah, so basically, when we look at a snapshot of the entire property market, we have seen higher rates of male ownership overall. So if we look at Australia, for example, women are estimated to own about 26.6% of properties, men own 29%. And then you have this joint ownership structure between men and women for about 43% of properties. Now, of the properties that we were able to analyze across Australia and infer these differences across we looked at ownership structure so whether these were investor owned or owner occupied

and basically what we found is that of the properties that we analyzed men own about 150,000 more than women and of those additional properties owned around 100,000 of them were inferred to be investment properties so yeah so that suggests that most of the existing gap between property ownership of men and women is actually accounted for by investor properties now there's there's a few reasons that could be and and some of it might come down to the structure of ownership if you know an investment property is actually being purchased just in the male's name but in actual fact there is joint ownership or something like that but there's there's other reasons that could account for this discrepancy in ownership that include

things like the gender wage gap over time, women's relatively low participation in the labour market over the decades. The other interesting trend that we saw in home ownership is that women tend to have a marginally higher ownership rate of units in Australia, whereas men own more of the houses so why is that I think again it could come back to affordability yeah so units being relatively cheap but we've also you know had conversations with people in the industry who cite things like security women tend to feel more comfortable in apartment blocks where they are closer to and can know their neighbors they have intercom systems things like that and I mean And we've also seen that women tend to have higher rates of ownership in high-end markets like the eastern suburbs, for example.

And in the eastern suburbs, there would be just a lot more unit stock as well. So there's a few different reasons there. But because property growth has generally been higher in detached houses, that also has implications for the wealth gap generated by property. Absolutely. Well, you're covering that up really well. are there any other emerging trends in terms of the share, type and location of residential purchase by gender over time? Yeah, so as I mentioned, over time, we've seen more parity in purchasing, with about 28% of purchases by men and women over the course of 2021,

which is a really good sign. There's probably a fair way to go in terms of getting more parity in ownership between men and women. And I think that a lot of that could come back to helping with early interventions around financial literacy. We know that on average, women tend to have lower financial literacy than their male counterparts. So I think even in early education, you know, really targeting from a young age that you as a woman can understand concepts like interests um uh sorry interest and compound interest uh and wealth accumulation and uh be be empowered to do that yeah totally agree unfortunately yeah i think education at that level word is a bit slim right across the board so we're generally something we

pick up in later life unfortunately but uh so i'd love to see how australia compares to other countries in this regard like I know you've had a look at New Zealand how do we shape up in that regard then? Yeah so Corelogic has a research team over in New Zealand and what's interesting is that women tend to have a higher at least partial share of home ownership because they have more joint male and female owners but when it comes to just female ownership or just male ownership. It's the same kind of thing. So women own about 23.5% of properties compared to 24.2% of men. So males do still have that higher rate of ownership, but the difference is a little slimmer than what we see across Australia. And I'd say that could be because Australia has more of

um an investor oriented market um so that higher level of investor participation uh has also contributed to to the gap in property ownership between men and women yeah it makes perfect sense so if we sort of wrap this all up uh in conclusion then what what are you seeing is the implications that this is going to have on future gender uh the wealth gap and and most importantly you go what do you think can be done about it apart from the education you've already mentioned? Yeah so apart from the education I think that we need to focus on targeting equality in home ownership and that isn't just a gender issue it's an income issue it's a it's an issue of race and there are other intersectionalities. I think income is probably the

most powerful where rates of home ownership have generally fallen most dramatically across younger groups and people on lower incomes. So the more we do to increase parity for those people and I think low deposit home loans with appropriate income thresholds for those schemes is a really good example of how we create more equality. But I also think we need to acknowledge that there are going to be people in this equation such as older divorced women or older women who are trying to get out of a you know their current domestic situation where research shows that they're more likely to wind up without home ownership so there also needs to be that supplementary care and housing accommodation for them whether that's more emergency or affordable

housing as an example to supplement yeah i totally agree i i've interviewed the authors of the female investor that came on the show recently and they were sharing some really interesting stats around the fact that about a third of females end up with zero retirement savings at retirement age which is a really scary and very unfortunate number and this is this yeah and it limits their autonomy it limits their financial freedom especially if they need to exit a domestic situation like so that's at the end of the day I guess this all kind of ties back to having that financial independence and reinforcing why that's so important for women at a young age so that hopefully when they get to retirement,

they can look after themselves as well if they need to. Yeah, absolutely. Well, look, I really appreciate you highlighting the changes and the differences in that area and the opportunities that we have to actually improve that. So I really want to thank you for one writing report, but thanks again for taking the time to share this on the show today. My pleasure.

Thanks for having me. Thanks, Eliza. Well, there you have it. Despite all the talk about gender equality and some improvements that are being made in this area, there's still clearly a gender gap in the areas of income and investment that will have lasting impacts on the well-being of our families and the community at large moving forward. So it's up to each and every one of us to do what we can to bridge the difference. And that brings me back to the old saying, if not now, when? And if not you, who? You're watching Realty Talk, your go-to place for all things property.

successful property investment is a game of finance do you have the right team and the right game plan realty talk is brought to you by know how property more than mortgage brokers bushy martin and his team of investment architects set you up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs tax risk and stress while increasing your capacity for growth know how has helped over 1,900 homeowners and investors secure more than $800 million in property wealth. So get set to live more, work less and live your legacy. Want to know how to invest in your freedom? Visit knowhowproperty.com.au. Hi and welcome. Now, according to recent data analysis by Digital Finance Analytics, over 1.62 million households are looking to sell down their

current property within the next five years, with over 98% of them aged over 50. Now, almost half of them currently own properties valued in excess of a million dollars, and 71% of them are looking to downsize into improved lifestyle properties that cost less than a million But what type of properties are downsizers looking for? And how can they navigate the considerable financial roadblocks to make this transition? To discuss this, we're joined by the MD and co-founder of Downsizer.com, Mark McDuffie. So welcome back to the show, Mark. Thanks, Bushy.

Glad to be back. Awesome. Now, Mark, when people downsize, what kind of dwelling is most appealing and why? it's a i'm going to answer it with the best of my knowledge right everybody's circumstances are slightly different but what we're seeing is a clear kind of trend um most of the data you mentioned digital finance analytics there at the top of the show most of that data points to 72 percent of homeowners that are mobilizing to downsize have three and four bedroom houses yep and about 17 have three bedroom units the rest are in the two beds mark but what we're

seeing is this shift not just to the financial um obviously you mentioned there is 71 are looking for less than a million dollars of value or property value but it's more about ease of you know you know ease of access perhaps there's health issues that are on the horizon that people are thinking of convenience you know this thing called covid's been around for two years now and i think that there's a there's a whole demographic of people that are thinking you know when the gates open i'm going to go out and i'm going to travel i'm going to see the world so downsizers are looking for that kind of apartment or community style living where they can have convenience low maintenance they can lock up and they can go traveling away for a period of time

and then inside the floor plan is also changing as well a number of the developers that we're working with have seen this for probably five six years and they've started developing floor plans that are really targeting this demographic large dining space large kitchen for entertaining you know spare room maybe a study from working from home um so it's kind of a couple of different factors ease access and for the appropriate like for the appropriate lifestyle right yeah exactly right so let's sort of uh narrow effects a bit onto the offer plan area because there's there's been sort of mixed news around the pros and cons of off the plan in the past so what are the specific advantages of buying off the plan when you're downsizing as you see it

So as we see it, obviously, we have a specific view. And this is really, you can choose an awful lot. There's more and more developers that are designing and building, as I said, for this demographic. And the developers that we talk to are increasingly seeing the value of a downsizer over a first-time homeowner. And what that means is that downsizers are actually, I think, in a really strong buying position. right because if they're asset rich cash poor and they walk into a showroom with a developer that is a safer bet for a developer from a settlement perspective and they're very responsive to that so really the benefits are multifaceted right you can choose an apartment off the plan

you can maybe make some customization you know you can really think about planning what you're going to do with your lifestyle and you can stay in your current house until the new one's ready So that convenience and you're not moving and renting and, you know, that's one aspect of it. But there's also more advantages from depending on which state you're buying in, there's stamp duty concessions, more and more incentives are making it easier and easier for downsizers with assets to unlock that and unlock the next phase of their lifestyle. So for us, it's really about choosing the convenience and the property that you want and the floor plan that you want that suits your lifestyle in a building or a community that suits you. Yeah, love it. So from the downsizer.com perspective, because a lot of people have a fear for anything that they can't touch and feel, is the due diligence process that you bring to the table as downsizer.com give them some extra insurance and assurance, if you like, in terms of making sure that they're buying a quality property from a quality developer? Can you just quickly touch on that for us?

Yeah, I'll certainly try to. One of the things that we've observed in the property industry is obviously there are bad actors in every industry, right? But I actually see a benefit in the historic bad actors that perhaps have, you know, we've all seen different sensationalist headlines like the Opal Towers, for example. But the really great work that David Chandler is doing as the New South Wales Building Commissioner, i think now you is a good time to buy because of the work for two and a half years or so that david's been in this position i think um really buying but build it by a confidence back to off the plan by making sure that there's you know this isert qualification has been a partnership

with the new south wales building commissioner and equifax yeah downsizer.com are actually one of the first companies to use that isert on a listings platform so one of our developers in New South Wales, a quick plug for Helm Properties in Mossman. They were one of the first three rated with the new buildings rating star classification. So they're four and a half stars working towards five stars, but really about embracing property developers that we're talking to. We screen them to make sure that they're of that certain, there's no phoenixing and that practices should be frowned upon. And is it being eradicated by the changes that David is doing? So we kind of screen developers to make sure that the quality the history of that developer is

giving the buyer confidence but you're right they want to touch feel see a lot and we're seeing a lot of developers that almost hold some stock back until the property's out of the ground and downsizes can actually eyeball uh you know what does it look like on level four for example yeah yeah and i love that i mean i'm very familiar with it as a used to be an architect for many years so being able to visualize and see things on plan is easy for me but for a lot of people it's it's a a bit of an unknown so it's really good that you're bringing some extra clout to that process to make sure that the the appropriate quality and scale of the developers is producing quality product that the downsizers can have confidence in so okay so another question around

this then so what are the barriers to downsize sizes trying to purchase a new home before they've sold their current home and how can prop tech solutions help this yeah thanks a great question um the barriers that we often see are most often for this cohort of individuals they don't they're not they don't have liquid cash sitting in a savings account because they're if they're beyond their retirement age or they've stopped working they're kind of drawing down on super and their savings and you know they've got lots of assets in their bricks and mortar but they don't have they're buying a two million dollar unit off of plan they don't have two hundred thousand dollars sitting around doing nothing so that deposit is a barrier and we believe that downsizer.com

shouldn't have to find um you shouldn't have to put that deposit in a low interest uh escrow account whilst if you if you've got a house with three or four times the one you're buying so we help screen and qualify buyers for that reason to remove that barrier but you've also touched on one aspect of it it's trust right that to me is a big big barrier for this demographic to perhaps it the last big buying decision of their lives and you see all of the press that we just referenced before so we're trying our very best to educate and select the right developers work with the building commissioner and also we our agents are screened by rate my agent so two kind of industry ratings that give you comfort as a buyer that the property that's being represented

on our platform um is is is a safe bet if you like and i think the third thing that i would throw in as a dance downside as a barrier perhaps is is you know if you've lived in a place for 30 years you know this the suburb well you go and drink the coffee at the same place and you know you know everyone and there might not be stock in that location for you so you're almost kind of landlocked by the fact that there is no stock in the suburb that you're looking for so i think there's the disruptiveness of changing your life after 25 years can't be underestimated and the more that we can do along with developers and agents and everybody in the industry to try and give that buyer confidence back to off the plan the better yeah 100 agree now look

i really want to thank you for these quite eye-opening insights mark and thanks again for your time on the show today. Thanks for having me. Take care. Thank you, Mark. Well, there you have it. If you're considering downsizing or you know someone that is, and you want to find out more, reach out to the team at downsizer.com. You're watching Realty Talk, your go-to place for all things property. Greetings and welcome. Now, after a short hiatus, this week, we continue our special focus on the critical importance of property management. In recent shows, we've done a deep dive on DIY property management versus professional management. So check those out first if you haven't had the chance to see them yet. And the conclusion from these previous segments

is quite clear. If getting a good dedicated specialist property manager is so critical to the success of your investment journey, how do you go about ensuring that you engage the best one available. How do you find a great property manager or know if you've already got a good one? This is exactly what I'll help you with over the next couple of episodes in our continuing special property management series. This week we're going to focus on one of the critical principles that will determine how effective your property management experience is and this actually revolves around the structure of your property manager's office. Now I know this doesn't sound all that exciting, but believe me, the way your property manager's office is set up will have a

massive impact on the enjoyment or otherwise of your property investment journey. So how do you find a great property manager or know if you've already got a great one? Why do I ask you this? Because the person who's going to have the longest relationship with you and your investment property will be the property manager and their quality will make or break your experience as a property investor. Get a bad one and it can be a nightmare. Get a great one and it's likely to be smooth sailing. So you need to make sure that you get a really great one. And I mean, not just good, but great. Because the unfortunate reality is that the average life of a property manager in many real estate offices is just six months across the country. Now, they can be like revolving doors,

which can be a real headache when someone new is managing your property up to twice a year. Why is this? Well, it's because many property managers, particularly those attached to real estate sales officers, are generally overworked and underpaid, trying to manage way too many properties with very little support. This is one of the main reasons why my awesome wife Sonia and I started our own property management business many years ago, because we were unsatisfied with the quality of property management on our own properties and believed we could do a better job. Now, if I actually knew now what I knew then, I probably wouldn't have done it because quite honestly, property management is one of the hardest jobs around because you're always

dealing with and trying to solve problems. There's quite often a lot of conflict between tenants and landlords. You have to be on call 24-7 for tenant issues. You're generally the meat in the sandwich and the legal risks and ramifications of adhering to the ever more restrictive and prohibitive tenancy legislation is growing by the day. Being the go-between, the tenant and the landlord is a real balancing act, and it takes someone who actually enjoys conflict, is great at multi-skilling, has awesome people skills, is a good negotiator and problem solver, and is extremely resilient to be able to survive and then thrive in this very challenging, never-ending environment. As an example, when Sonia and I first started our property management business, Sonia went away for a week to an interstate conference, so I agreed to sit in the chair while she was away, and I thought, this can't be that hard. And as a construction-hardened project manager, I thought it was going to be a piece of cake.

How wrong I was. the first day in I was up to 100 new tasks to complete and I was answering abusive calls from unhappy tenants on a number of properties that we'd inherited from a property manager who'd left the industry and as soon as Sonia got back I handed it all back to her and said take it away it's all yours so as you can hear I have a massive respect for the skills and expertise of property managers who endure and and thrive in this type of very challenging environment so to help you better understand the intimacies of property management today, I'm going to start downloading my wife's expert guiding principles and rules of thumb that underpin great property management.

So what distinguishes a great property manager from the rest of the pack? I'll start by saying what it isn't. It's not about the rate or the percentage of the weekly rent they charge you to manage the property, which unfortunately is where it usually starts and stops for many investors. And this is actually the worst basis to select a property manager, as you always get what you don't pay for. Or alternatively, many investors fall for the mistake of engaging the property manager attached to the real estate office who sold you the property. And I'll tell you why shortly. Or they're attracted to well-known real estate brands thinking familiarity and a known name are equated with quality. But this is also generally a mistake, because it doesn't

matter what name or brand's on the door, it's the quality and expertise of the individual managing your property and their level of support that determines how good they are and how good your property investment experience will be along the journey. So as usual, the devil's in the hidden detail when it comes to property manager selection. And it's an entire integrated suite of things that makes all the difference from structure to support to systems down to the individual skill and experience for the property manager. So let's kick off today by unpacking the two key property management principles and rules of thumb that you need to be aware of. The first thing to look for is a dedicated and specialist property management business where property management is their only

business. As I've already mentioned, don't make the mistake of engaging a property manager that is attached to a real estate sales office as the property managers are often treated by the sales principals as the poor cousin, so the property management team are often under-resourced and under-supported, so you just don't get the same level of service. In addition, many sales-based offices are more focused on selling properties under management than managing them, so there's an in-built conflict of interest here. At the very least, make sure that the office has a dedicated hands-on property management principal whose primary focus is just property management. So principle number one is to focus on dedicated specialist property management only businesses.

Now, the second guiding principle is to make sure that the property management office has the right structure. As property investors, we often think of property managers as all being the same. But inside each office, there are different types of structure and systems or different management systems. and the three main ones currently are task, portfolio and pod management with some hybrids of these structures also being adopted. So within the property management industry these three main approaches to offer structure result in very different landlord experiences and vary in both the quality and cost of the property management experience. So let's start by breaking down what task, pod and portfolio actually mean. At one end of the spectrum are task-based property

management offices. Now task-based property management sees the office separating the various roles within the business with different people specialising in each and every component across leasing, entry routines and accident condition, inspection reporting, maintenance and repairs, lease renewals, trust accounting, rental arrears and admin etc. So as the name suggests, this model is purely task-related. One person looks after leasing, another after maintenance, someone else is responsible for finances, and so on. Now, while this may assist in reducing the office cost through specialisation, a major downside of task-based offices is that communication with you as the landlord can be broken up and staggered, and can create a structure

where the right hand doesn't really know what the left hand is doing, and a finger-pointing who blames who for mistakes or misses occurs, with you as a landlord not knowing who to talk to, no one takes total responsibility and things often fall through the cracks. Issues can also take longer to resolve if the buck gets passed around between the various task managers. Now at the other end of the spectrum are portfolio-based property management officers. Portfolio-based management is when each property manager is appointed a number of closely related managements that may be based on locational proximity, property type, landlord type or other and they complete all of the end-to-end tasks associated with those properties. So in

portfolio based offices each property manager manages all aspects of their portfolio. As the number of properties under management grows each property manager may add an admin assistant often referred to as a property management coordinator or PMC. Now in these cases the PMC may manage the portfolio's non-dollar productive internal and admin based tasks while the property manager manages dollar productive landlord and tenancy facing issues. Now the major advantage here is that it means that you as the property owner together with a tenant and the contractors would generally only deal with one person who's intimately aware of exactly what's going on with your property. And this is great, as long as the property manager is not trying to manage too many

properties and doesn't lead the business. Now, the third type of PM structure, which has seen a growing trend in recent times, is for property management officers to operate on what's called a pod-based approach, which lies somewhere in between the task and portfolio extremes. Pod-based systems see two to three property managers working together as a team. Now POD is industry code which is short for profit optimization distribution zones that adopts a team approach to property management. This can include a senior portfolio manager supported by one to two para property managers and a property management coordinator who's responsible for the supporting admin tasks while minimizing salary costs to the office. This may involve one person dedicated to inspections who knows exactly what they're looking for and perhaps has the time to be more thorough, a property manager who's the main

contact and who'll be managing the day-to-day maintenance and rental income, and a letting agent who matches tenants to properties. The critical thing here is that each team member needs to know what the others are doing and have done to avoid property owner and tenant frustrations. Again, effective work coordination and communication along with personal accountability can become an issue in pod-based offices where things can fall through the cracks and landlords are never too sure of who to talk to about what. And finally, there are hybrid office structures that blend a mixture of task portfolio and pod-based approaches. So as a landlord, you need to decide exactly what it is you're looking for in a property manager, whether you want one person

only to deal with, whether communication and customer service is high on your priority list, or if low fees and efficiency are more of what you're looking for. You need to have your core needs and expectations very clear before looking to engage a property manager in order to avoid disappointment down the track. Now in our personal experience as both owners of a property management business and as active investors, we've found that a portfolio-based approach with a separate leasing manager and admin support is the best to ensure the quality of the experience as we find it's far easier for the investor to have one point of contact with the property manager who intimately understands the full ins and outs of your investment property. Now this hybrid portfolio approach

enables the time-consuming task of leasing a property with tenant open screening and placing tenants to be handled by a dedicated leasing manager who then hands the property on to the portfolio property managers who are then responsible for managing all aspects of the property and are the one point of contact for landlords and tenants, and therefore have more ownership, more understanding, and more accountability for your property. So you need to focus on dedicated specialist property management businesses who operate on a hybrid portfolio basis. Next week, I'll drill down into the other key property management principles before concluding the series

with the questions that you actually need to ask when selecting your property manager. And for more deep dives on the importance of all things property management, look out for my recent conversations on both Realty Talk and the Get Invested podcast with Dennis Youssef from Inspired Growth Training, together with top property managers,

Lauren Robinson and Jamie Biddlewell. That's more food for thought. Have a great week. Remember to always get invested in your future and I look forward to sharing with you again very soon. Well, that brings us to the end of another show in our run-up to our 500th episode of Realty Talk in a few weeks' time.

So keep an eye out for that. Another big thanks to our special guests, Eliza Rowan and Mark McDuffie. And to make sure you don't miss an episode of Australia's longest-running and most popular online property show, subscribe to Realty Talk now on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen. And make sure you sign up on the

realty.com.au homepage to get a free copy of my book, Get Invested, so that you can get every episode in your inbox every week. And while you're there, make sure you check out one of Australia's most extensive range of properties for sale from over 7,000 agents nationally. Thanks again to realty.com.au and BMT Tax Appreciation for their ongoing support. I'm Bushy Martin from know how probably finance and i look forward to seeing you again next week miss something in this week's show or want to catch up on past shows do it anytime at realty.com.au where we connect buyers sellers and agents differently