Property Hub - Investment Insights & Inspiration - Realty Talk: Mindset matters + Modern day dinosaur + Drop the excuses

Episode Date: June 18, 2022

As property markets around the country begin to soften with rate rises, the mindset will separate successful investors from the rest. To kick off the show and unpack the key ingredients, we’re joined by Jane Slack-Smith from Your Property Success. In the age of faster, bigger, smarter…. real estate dinosaurs are headed for extinction if they don’t embrace and adopt the massive opportunities that proptech creates. To discuss the benefits of disruption, Thom Richards from Managed App leads the charge. What's stopping you from buying property now?  You will always find excuses why the time is never right -  but is this appropriate? The author of Buy Now, Lloyd Edge from Aus Property Professionals, wakes us up to the opportunities of taking action in any market.As interest costs rise, self-managing your rental property can save you money and increase your returns.  The founder of the Rentbetter DIY platform, Jeremy Goldschmidt, joins us to explore the benefits. RealtyTalk is your trusted voice in property investment and Australia’s most popular online property show.  RealtyTalk is brought to you by Realty, Australia’s leading search and social property distribution platform that helps investors like you beat the crowd, giving you the earliest access to property opportunities, listings, and insights. Check out Realty. RealtyTalk is hosted by top property investment expert, author, and founder of KnowHow Property, Bushy Martin. Find out how Bushy’s KnowHow team helps investors unlock freedom with finance and property here, and check out Bushy’s podcast Get Invested.  RealtyTalk is supported by BMT, a company that helps property investors save thousands of dollars each year by maximizing tax deductions from investment properties. Find out more.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to Realty Talk, the show that brings together the country's most authoritative and respected property experts. Follow us on all the socials and subscribe for updates and exclusive offers. Realty Talk is powered by realty.com.au, connecting buyers, sellers and agents differently. Greetings and welcome to Realty Talk, your trusted voice in all things property. I'm Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property Finance and as interest rates soften property markets, how you think, how you reduce costs and what you buy will all influence your property results in the times ahead. To kick things off today in this vein, Jane Slack-Smith from Your Property Success

joins us to unpack how your mindset will separate successful investors from the rest. In our current age of faster, bigger, smarter, real estate dinosaurs are headed for extinction if they don't embrace and adopt the massive opportunities that prop tech creates. To discuss the benefits of disruption, Tom Richards from Managed App joins us to lead the charge. What's stopping you from buying property right now? Is it the changing markets, the rising costs, media talk of softening markets, or maybe it's a threat of rising interest rates? The truth is that you can always find excuses why now is never the right time to buy property. But is this the right approach?

Well, to challenge this, Lloyd Edge from Oz Property Professionals joins us to discuss his new book, Buy Now, that will wake you up to the opportunities to take action in any market conditions. And as interest rates and costs rise, self-managing your rental property can save you money and increase your returns. And to help you do this effectively, the Rent Better DIY platform comes to your rescue. So the founder, Jeremy Goldschmidt, joins us to explore the benefits and to close out the show. And before we get into it, make sure you don't miss another episode of Realty Talk by signing up on the realty.com.au homepage so that you get every show in your inbox every week. And for making the effort, I'll even throw in a free copy of my award-winning book, Get Invested. We've got a lot of timely insights to share, so let's get on with the show.

Hi and welcome. Now, if you've been listening to us for a while, you'll know that we're firm believers that truly sustainable success lies at the intersection of what we call the three L's, self, health, and wealth, where self is about how you think and what you believe, health is about developing happy habits and rewarding rituals, and both of these are foundational to accumulating

and achieving long-term wealth, however you choose to define it. And at the epicenter of all of this is your mindset. So to dive into this crucial aspect that separates successful investors from the rest, we're joined again by a highly respected property market commentator, educator, author, awarded mortgage broker, and founder of Your Property Success, Jane Slack-Smith, who's been doing a lot of research on mindset. So welcome back to the show, Jane. Thanks, Wushu, for having me. Jane, it's a great subject that I'd really like to dive into. So I know you've been

educating property investors now for over 15 years. So what have you observed on why some are successful and others aren't it's interesting isn't it because i i thought you know having been an engineer and and kind of cracked the code and i could teach people how to do this that everyone would just follow the bouncing ball and get it right and you know i was just shocked and that not everyone got it right and even though you'd almost serve up the answer and you know just do this and this and this those who did that got it and even some of those who did that would go backwards and I'd be like how did you end up in the right suburb but buy the wrong property and so I really in about five years ago became fascinated by you know the success mindset

flow whatever you want to call it but why some people get it why don't so some people don't and I think that I guess my observations have been there's almost like a wealth set point that we have and it's like a weight set point you're like breaking through it is a bit difficult and you know I've spoken to people on both sides those who've been very very successful and those that have just struggled and had it all and lost it all and I'm sure that you have been to as many seminars that I have where they go and I had everything and then I lost it and I'd be the person they're going I just want to know how you've lost it so I can just jump ahead of that and and I thought if I could actually navigate that and work out what it was then I could

actually then teach that so the last five years I've really been concentrating on why do some people get success and some people don't yeah awesome yeah no it's a really interesting subject which I'd like to break down a bit but so tell us is there a way for us to identify where we are on our journey of success and how we can actually course correct if necessary yeah look if we just look at investing for instance you know what I really found when I started interviewing people and speaking to people and looking at, you know, some of my clients and students was that there was two things that were characteristic of how they actually performed.

One was how fast they were as action takers and one was how much knowledge they gained. So if you imagine like an XY graph and we have like action and then we have wisdom, you know, those that are very fast action takers, they're like, oh, my gosh, NDIS, oh, my goodness, Detroit, we're going to be buying houses for 20 grand. oh my gosh we're going to be flipping places in New Zealand oh my goodness there's NRAS and what about you know and it's just like and you know those people are very fast action takers and

when it doesn't quite work out they just move on to the next one and they're really our gamblers they don't have a lot of knowledge or depth of knowledge and then we have the the top you know left corner where we have those people who do all the courses and you know they're in there and they're they're still in this beautiful community and they're like oh my gosh did you did you see this course on you know rent to buy and and they're doing all of these courses but they never actually pull the trigger they don't take action and they're my dreamers like I love the dreamers because you know they're so passionate and usually very giving and they're they're those members in your community who are always saying oh look you know I could help you do this this and this is

where you should look at and this person's book or course is great but they never actually do it themselves and then we have the critics now the critics aren't all bad they don't take any action because they don't believe in property investing. They don't have any knowledge because that's just not their thing. And often they will be the people who pull us back and they'll be saying, you know, you better be careful. You're going to be loaning a million dollars one day

or, you know, actually a lot of them are just trying to protect us. There's those who don't want us to be separated from them. So they're trying to bring us down. But the critics are an active part of our quadrants. And then we have the successful people. They do the work. They find a coach, a mentor, an educator,

as someone who's done what they want to do before. They understand their vision of what they want to achieve. They're very strategic about what their way forward is. They find someone that they can then replicate or learn from so they don't make the mistakes and they take decisive action. And those people are successful investors. And what I really like about that group

is that they can become uber successful investors if they just learn one or two things about those limiting things that actually pull them back as well. Yeah, that's a great framework for people to actually position themselves because the starting point is that's where we can then go, okay, what do I need to do differently? So I love that quadrant approach to the exercise. If you had one thing that you've seen that's been the undoing of many investors then, what would it be, Jane? Look, it is that limiting belief. And this is something that I've really, you know, deep dived in over the last two to three years, and really probably use my mentoring students as a bit of a guinea pigs on this, because I've really become fascinated in the stories that we tell ourselves and where they come from. and those limiting beliefs that may have served us and protected us in the past and often from childhood, but no longer service now. And so, you know, just as an example, I spoke to one of my

clients just before Christmas. I'm like, you know, we've got from 16,565 suburbs down to the 300 suburbs in Australia that meet all the criteria down to your area in Brisbane. We've got 10 suburbs. We've down to the final three. You've got the analysis. We've used census to get to the streets where the renters want to be we know the typical property we've set up the alerts they're coming through why haven't you bought and you know we really tried to work this out and she turned around and said you know what i think it's my definition of success i'm said let's explore that so we've stepped into her definition of success and it was an old lady dying alone rich in a house by herself i'm like okay no wonder your subconscious does not want that let's redefine it

So we just got rid of that. And we sat down and said, well, what would success look like if it was the best potential that you could live? And she's like, well, I'd be generous with my time. I'd be generous with those that I wanted to be with. I'm like, well, let's choose that as your definition of success. two weeks later she bought a house so you know that was like 11 months of going why is this not working to you know a real kind of switch going okay it's my definition of success and a lot of us to the point have I think a I'm going to call it a loyalty tax as well which is you know if I'm richer or better off than my friends family community are they going to judge me are they still going to love me are they going to ridicule me are they going to tall poppy syndrome kick me down and a lot of it goes on in our heads and our friends and family are going hey you good on you for escaping you know so I think there's a lot of conversations and limiting beliefs that can pull

us back and you know I really double down and concentrate on what what those are for people so we can get them over that so they can get on get the financial security they want and then live their their true nature and purpose yeah I love it that reframing is so important in terms of becoming aspirational rather than a hamstring. Just to summarise then, if someone wants to start or reorient their investment journey, are there any resources that you recommend that we get our hands on? Yeah, look, you know, one of the books that really started it all for me, and it's not the secret you believe that you're going to get it. It's a book called The Magician's Way by William Whitecloud, who I'm now, you know, one-on-one mentoring with because I just believe in that

kind of mindset reframe so much. But, you know, just a really simple exercise. You know, I've been working on a concept, renovate yourself, renovate your wealth for a period of time. And this is an exercise from that. And I just, you know, for your listeners, just take a moment and just think if you woke up tomorrow and everything was gone, everyone that you loved was gone. There was no one else there but you. And, you know, there was power and water and electricity that was going to get you through to the end of your time. Do you need the big house that you have to clean? Do you need the fancy car? Do you need the Gucci handbag? You know, what is it that would really make your life something that would really satisfy you? And,

you know, I think if you just do something as simple as that exercise and go, why do I want the things that I want? You know, a lot of people believe they need wealth to have happiness and love. Well, you know, that's just not the case. And so, you know, I think just by reframing, you know why are you working for what you're working for a lot of people want to have more time with their family so they work harder and separate themselves from the family for longer hours away so that one day they can be close to the family so I think just taking that moment to sit back and say you know what is it that I really want property investing is a vehicle that you and I both know has got us to where we want to be so we can actually help and magnify our messages to

help more people and serve more people but at the end of the day you know wealth and riches are not the answer and what often not what people are all about getting yeah i love that it all comes back to the that self-belief again so look i really want to thank you for giving us these very timely reminders jane and thanks again for taking the time to join us on the show today i appreciate you having me thank you jane well there you have it if you want to achieve sustainable wealth it all starts with yourself and your mindset so if you want to find out more and make sure you've got the right headset, feel free to reach out to Jane at janeslakesmith.com.au or yourpropertiesuccess.com.au. Stay with us for more here on Realty Talk. Successful property investment is a game of

finance. Do you have the right team and the right game plan? Realty Talk is brought to you by Know How Property. More than mortgage brokers, Bushy Martin and his team of investment architects set you up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs tax risk and stress while increasing your capacity for growth know-how has helped over 1 900 homeowners and investors secure more than 800 million dollars in property wealth so get set to live more work less and live your legacy. Want to know how to invest in your freedom? Visit knowhowproperty.com.au. Greetings and welcome. Now, traditionally, many real estate professionals have been slow to adopt technology, which has been to the detriment of both the client experience for buyers, sellers,

landlords, and tenants, as well as the cost and efficiency of real estate offices. But PropTech Disrupting Payment Platform Managed App is rapidly transforming this. And co-founder Tom Richards joins us for part two of our special Realty Talk feature. So welcome back to the show, Tom. Thank you. Looking forward to it. Thanks, Tom. Now, to kick things off, why do you think real estate agencies are so slow to adopt tech? I think it's a combination of the demographic of the real estate agents that we've got, and also a bit of a fear of implementing technology with their customers and clients. I think they're two equal things that hold agencies back. And I think they're unfounded,

to be honest i mean most customers and clients want the experience i mean you've seen how quickly banks roll that internet banking and how you walk into a service new south wales now and you can do a lot of things by your computer and all those kinds of things most people are used to that technology being part of the experience so i don't think that's warranted um and in terms of them their resistance to change i think that's just laziness yeah it's probably as well as as that I think it's also such embedded habits in the way people do things that breaking those habits and embracing something new often becomes a bit of a handcuff situation.

What's your thoughts on that? Yeah, definitely. That's totally part of it as well. And the scary thing is that without embracing the change, it puts the business at risk. Your profitability is nowhere near where it should be. Your team aren't as happy as they should be, and you risk losing those clients.

And everything you've worked so hard for could go quite quickly if the competitors see that. Totally agree, mate. Totally agree. So what's the most important piece of tech that you see in a real estate business then? For me, I mean, obviously I'm biased having a payment platform,

but there was a reason why we started with the payments first. We could have built absolutely any part of the real estate workflow and we landed on payments purely because we saw it as the biggest opportunity, not just for us as a business, but for our agency clients

to remove the bulk of the admin, the risk, and offer something unique to their customers and clients. Yeah, yeah, and I love it. So what's the best way to approach any resistance to change from employees or customers then, Tom? The easiest way is just education and to simplify it for them. We spend a lot of time on education, but absolutely any change, any change with process, any change with technology,

even change with customers, clients, a new office, you show them around it is purely just a matter of hand-holding in my opinion most customers we see they've got people that embrace the technology and they change faster and some don't so what we often do is we have heroes within those offices somebody that they're familiar with and comfortable with opposed to just tom's face on the other end of the computer trying to tell them how to change their how they work somebody that they know and trust in that office is always a great way of doing it as well yeah getting the old uh champions uh within the exercise to drive the the rest of the time he needs to do so yeah brilliant way to do it so if you had one piece of advice for

agencies when looking at tech then tom what would it be yeah my number one piece of advice is i use my analogy of our business we're technology business right um i think last count nick and i have something like 15 subscriptions to run our business and one of those is google and google's however many trillion dollar company and i can't record on google hangouts right so and for our agencies that come to us and say oh well we want a piece of technology that does everything every part of our business i say google can't do it for us you've got no shot of getting a small australian tech prop tech business to cover every part of you of every workflow that you need so my number one advice is to really have a think about the tech stack realize that you will never get anything

to cover your whole business but just think about how well they fit together whether they're complementary whether they're easy to use um and and also think about the net positive so i might lose something over here but i gained this much don't get held up on some little thing that you're losing think about the overall benefit yeah no extremely well said and and very exciting times made in what you're doing to disrupt the industry and improve the experience for landlords uh buyers sellers and real estate professionals alike so i really want to thank you for this wake-up call tom and thanks again for sharing your valuable time on the show today thank you thanks tom well it's clear that in our age of faster bigger smarter real estate dinosaurs are headed for

extinction if they don't embrace and adopt the massive opportunities that prop tech creates and if you're a real estate professional or landlord looking for a fast secure and efficient platform to facilitate your real estate transactions reach out to tom and his team at managedapp.com.au. You're watching Realty Talk, your go-to place for all things property. Property depreciation is the natural wear and tear of a building and its assets. Property investors can claim depreciation as a tax deduction each financial year. Depreciation is a non-cash deduction. This means you don't need to spend any money in order to claim it. On average, BMT tax depreciation find residential investors almost $9,000 in first full financial

year deductions. Call BMT on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation free quote. Greetings and welcome. Now what's stopping you from buying property right now? Is it the changing markets, the needless jargon, the rising costs, the peak of the market, or maybe it's the current threat of rising interest rates? The truth is that there's always excuses why now is never the right time to buy a property. But is this the actual right approach? We'll discuss this. We're joined by Lloyd Edge, the Managing Director of Oz Property Professionals Buyers Agency and the author of his new second book, Buy Now, which helps you answer all these questions. So in a special two-part Realty Talk feature on the book, we welcome you back to the show, Lloyd. G'day, Bushy. How are

you today? Great to see you again, mate. Pretty excited about your new book, having had the privilege now to speed rate it thanks to you sending sending me one but for those that haven't what's your new book by now about well essentially it's got a bit of everything in it for everyone wanting to buy property but it's pretty much a handbook on investing and and buying property so both a home and and investing and basically helping everybody from budgeting finance getting tips for mortgage brokers understanding the ever-changing markets and getting right through to potentially buying your dream home. Yeah, I love it.

It certainly captures the whole end-to-end process as far as that goes. So what are some of the top takeaways from the book then, Lloyd? I think some of the great things that are in the book are some of the case studies. I've actually featured a few of my own case studies from my own deals, the renovations I've done

and some results I've got through there. And also some of my clients just to see what they've done. I've also got some interactive exercises in there thanks to QR codes. So people can log in there and they can sort of download budget planners and property strategic planners and everything to sort of help with setting them a strategy. So those sort of things are, you know, are really helpful for people and everything. And I think in general, just the book is basically a step-by-step guide to help people understand property.

So you don't need to be experienced. It's got some stuff in there for people who have done it before, but it's also good for people who are just starting out. Yeah, no, spot on there. Now, we both know how long and laborious process it is to write a book. So why did you decide to write the second book then? Yeah, well, fortunately, my first book, Positively Geared, became a bestseller. So, you know, I was very lucky with that. There were a few things that probably I didn't include in Positively Geared that I thought

I should include in another book. And, you know, rather than just talking about investing and how to build up, you know, large portfolios as as I've done myself I really felt that there was also a bit of a gap there for just helping people who maybe just want to get in buy a couple of properties or just get in and buy their own home as well so so just basically helping you know everybody with the with the basics and and also not just about how to build a portfolio but also really understanding how to understand a lot the suburbs that they they wanted to buy and how to read the markets how to buy within within their budgets and everything like that

and really bringing that down to, you know, a really easy level for people to understand. Yeah, well said. So taking that all into account then, what's your top advice for buyers wanting to buy right now? I think that, you know, people obviously need to not overextend themselves and really need to buy within their budget.

But one of the things and one of the top takeaways probably from the book is, you know, it's called Buy Now because for me, it's not about if you should buy now. So I get this question every day, you know, should I buy property now? Should I buy later and all this? But it's really about where you should buy and what sort of strategy you should buy with.

So there's always a good bargain and we have good property to buy as long as you've got your finance in place. So you really got to look for that. So I believe that every day is a good time to buy. So you just got to have that right strategy in place. Yeah, no, absolutely, great. Well, mate, thanks for these very timely reminders, Lloyd,

and thanks again for joining us on the show today. Pleasure. Cheers. Thanks, Lloyd. Well, if you or someone you know is sitting on the sidelines wondering when and how to buy a property, then grab yourself a copy of Lloyd's book, Buy Now, which gives you simple, straightforward, easy-to-understand advice to help you not only enter the property market

but to launch and grow your own portfolio because it's never too late to start, but it's always too late to wait. Stay with us for more here on Realty Talk. Successful property investment is a game of finance. Do you have the right team and the right game plan? Realty Talk is brought to you by KnowHow Property. More than mortgage brokers, Bushy Martin and his team of investment architects

set you up with a sustainable strategy structured to lower your costs, tax, risk, and stress while increasing your capacity for growth. KnowHow has helped over 1,900 homeowners and investors secure more than $800 million in property wealth. So get set to live more, work less, and live your legacy. Want to know how to invest in your freedom? Visit knowhowproperty.com.au. Greetings and welcome. Now, if you're renting out your property, your options are to hire a professional property manager to do it or to handle the day-to-day management yourself. And by doing it yourself, you save on rental agent's fees, but you take on the time commitment and the risk yourself. So how much does independent professional property

management cost? Remembering that it's not what you pay, but the value you get that counts. Now, it's generally not as simple as a single number or a percentage. Property management fees are generally divided into three categories, which are a leasing fee of between one to two weeks rent, an ongoing management fee of anywhere between four to 11% of the weekly rent, plus some charge a range of miscellaneous fees. In simple terms, on a property earning about 500 bucks a week rent, professional property managers will charge you approximately $3,500 a year to cover all this, which equates to over $50,000 over a 15-year term. So if you have the time to get with the knowledge of the residential tenancies legislation,

self-managing your property may reduce cost and increase your return on investment. So to help you to do this effectively, the Rent Better DIY platform comes to your rescue. And to conclude our two-part special on this, we're joined again by CEO and founder, Jeremy Goldschmidt. So welcome back to the show, Jeremy. Thanks again for having me, Bushy.

Great to be here. Awesome, mate. So let's get into the whole cost exercise. what sort of savings are available for a typical investor landlord that uses the rent better platform yeah absolutely and look i love the calculations that you went through a moment ago because i think that uh sometimes we we're pretty good at doing detailed analysis but i feel like you were you're even better there because you're given a broader window and higher costs than we would normally attribute but i think that's spot on um look i think that the the number that we

typically go with is about 2000 a year per property per landlord. And as you mentioned, over the lifetime of that property, and certainly if you've got multiple properties, that amount is quite significant and meaningful. So we definitely see landlords actually taking note and making a change. If you looked at your average loan principle of about 500k or that amount as a balance, you're sort of talking about 50 basis points a year and you see people do all sorts of crazy things to get that sort of reduction on their interest rate um so this is one where as you mentioned it's it's sort of a platform the rent better platform is there to guide you and make sure that your life is easier as you go through it so that you can make those savings

comfortably yeah well said so now i've heard many say that property management expenses are tax deductible so it doesn't really matter what you spend on property management does that statement ring true with you on rent better? Well, again, it depends on your outlook of the world, right? I think that a lot of people, when they invest in property, and sure, there's a big capital gains event at the end, and people do look for capital growth. But along the way, there's a journey, right? And there's a cost of carrying that investment over time. And as much as people would say, well, if you're paying tax, then it's a good thing because you're obviously earning. We also think that a strategy that revolves totally around negative gearing is one that's

based on outflow and not necessarily as if you like commercial or savvy as one could be and so where there's money to be saved on the right basis we think that's absolutely something that you should do and anyone who's got if you like a little bit of a entrepreneurial spirit about them or is looking at their investment property as a business that they run I don't know too many business people who go and just throw 2k out the door because they think that they can get a tax deduction on it. It doesn't quite make sense. So what we would typically do in a similar way to the way that you broke down those expenses is if you look at your average rental property and you just look at it almost on an average basis of what's the percentage you're attributing to

different expense areas, you sort of come out with sort of 17, 18, or maybe I'll just give a range, 15 to 20% of your expense base is actually something that's controllable. And again, And I find it hard as someone who runs a business to not look at that and say, well, hang on a second, that's meaningful. We should absolutely address that. Yeah, I love it. And I think your analogy of running your investment properties like a business is very apt. That sums it up perfectly.

So looking at the trends, do you think more investors are self-managing now than say five years ago? And if so, why do you think this is, Jeremy? I absolutely do. I think I talked in the last segment a little bit about the sort of stats that we look at, whether it's from the ATO or REA and that there's certainly a movement towards it even just from the general flow in our business we obviously see a lot more inquiries every day with people who are saying I wish I knew about this how come I'd never heard of you before and we always say yes we wish

that we were out there a little bit more than we are but certainly that's what we're doing as we grow so I definitely see that the numbers are growing and people are heading in that direction and look generally I think the underlying thing is that consumer behavior has changed over the last few years traditionally people would say I've got an investment property time to get an agent and I've got to go and you know get a property manager in to manage it because that's my only way to access the right tools to do it when we look at the sort of two core offerings or propositions of having a property manager it's usually one part's related to if you like the financial aspects and the money and the other parts related to the administrative aspects

and if you like they're just making sure that everything's taken care of in terms of maintaining the property and the investment um and you know with the improvement of technology over time both those things are very doable now online or from the palm of your hand with your phone so um one we think consumer behaviors and technology are changing things and two i think it's a sign of the times I think just the idea that a if you're like a middleman or someone in between you and your property and your investment again you can look for other ways to do things in today's world and I do think a lot of our customers are looking for a better experience and a better way of dealing with their tenant that sort of sees them and their tenant almost as like a customer type

relationship where someone is paying you for your investment in your asset and you treat them with respect like a customer and not with someone in between yeah no i love it a good read of what's happening i think so what are one to two reasons that you see that are driving landlords to make the switch to self-management then i talked about it a little bit before i'm going to repeat it again because i think it's super critical is cost and control i i think people again are just especially in this environment where interest rates are going up i think people are looking for more sensible ways to manage that cost uh and certainly people have taken on more leverage obviously it's important to do that you you will effectively have the equivalent of a reduced

interest rate by doing so so I think one people looking for reducing that cost protecting their income and I think the second one is just the control and the visibility and transparency over what's going on if you've got a system that's doing what it's supposed to you can always see what's happening and you're always aware of what's going on rather than waiting for someone to sort of tell you what's happening because you weren't sure and you were kept on the outside so within those two drivers will continue. I don't see a trend reversing in either of those areas and hopefully we're on the right side of that. Yeah, and I love it. Look, I want to thank you for these awesome insights, Jeremy, and thanks again for joining us on the show today.

My pleasure. Thank you again. Thanks, Jeremy. Well, if you're an existing or potential landlord who has both the time and the expertise to self-manage your rental properties and you're looking to do it better and more cost-effectively, reach out to Jeremy and his team at rentbetter.com. Stay with us for more here on Realty Talk. year deductions. Call B&T on 1300 728 726 today for an obligation free quote. Well, that's another wrap for this week's show. Another big thanks to our special guests, Jane Slack-Smith, Tom Richards, Lloyd Edge, and Jeremy Goldschmidt. And to make sure that you don't miss another episode of your trusted voice for all things property, subscribe to Realty Talk

now on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube or wherever you listen and make sure you sign up on the realty.com.au homepage to get a free copy of my book Get Invested to ensure that you get every episode in your inbox every week. And while you're there make sure you check out one of Australia's most extensive range of properties for sale from over 7,000 agents nationally where you'll even find properties that aren't listed anywhere else. Thanks again to realty.com.au and BMT Tax Depreciation for their ongoing support. I'm Bushy Martin from KnowHow Property Finance. Remember to always get invested and I look forward to seeing you again next week. Miss something in this week's show or want to catch up on past shows?

Do it anytime at realty.com.au where we connect buyers, sellers and agents differently.